Finaly had Voom installed yesterday, Needless to say, I find the picture quality disappointing. Except for a few channels, like Discovery HD and Bravo, everything has that up-converted look: slightly grainy and a bit soft. I am using a Toshiba 5782 with component attachments. I have had Cable and "D" and both are many times clearer and overall better looking. I looks like most of their stuff is 1080i, and in most cases, 720p would have been the way to go. I am beginning to think that are are giving out their 1st generation receivers as part of this new "Free Upfront" deal. Also, the antenna they provide for the OTA netted me only 3 out of 10 locals. So far, I am regretful of my switch from "D". The one positive at this point is the 5.1 audio, which sounds extremely clear and magnificently well separated. Each of my six speakers seem to be utilized better than they have before, especially the crystal clarity of the center; dialogue sounds awesome on all of the channels. As for the phone line issue, the installer merely used it once to download info to the receiver, then I yanked the cord out and tossed it in the closet. Apparently firmware updates are downloaded directly from the satellite. Here's hoping things improve or I will be cancelling within a month. The installer also mentioned he had UNINSTALLED 3 VOOM systems in the past week.
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Are you serious? There is no comparison between Voom PQ and Directv. Dish PQ is even worse then the above 2. Why would they have been better going with 720p on some programming? I thought the concensus was that there is basically no difference to the eye between 720p and 1080i. I switched and I will never go back. Vooms HDTV is the top of the line and so is there Customer Service.
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Which locals are you able to receive? Did you pick up more locals with your DirecTV receiver? What part of Charlotte do you live in?
I must admit your comment about 720p does seem a bit odd since I believe your TV scans at 1080i. My experience in Charlotte has been that when using my 1080i Toshiba I have always thought 1080i broadcasts look better.
Mark
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His HDTV does scan in at 1080i thats why I can't figure out what he is talking about. The antenna they include is very good. Its the Channel Master Stealthtenna and picks up my Locals which some are about 35 miles away with no pre-amp.
The PQ on VOOM is Eye-Popping on as it is on Directv and Dish. I feel it is a little better on Voom, probably due to the extra Bandwith and less Compression(Or maybe it looks better because I am a Voomer. I don't know!!). The SD is noticable better on Voom compared to the other 2. By far the best picture though is the OTA.
This is a very good deal with no strings attached and no commitment like Dish and Directv's 1 year and 2 year Commitments which they suck people into. You can'y lose with giving Voom a try.
I should be a sales rep!!!!
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Okay guys just hold on....like Stevo said, the installer called me up Wednesday around 2pm and said he was on his way. It took him 5 hours. I am beginning to think by all of your comments that I had a subpar installer. It was his 1st one as I had mentioned. As for 1080i issue, there are a couple of channels that should be 720p, like the extreme sports station and a few others. Yes, my TV scans at 1080i, but 720p feeds do look better in some situations. Maybe I have bad equipment, But my eyes do not lie. I have never needed corrective lenses or anything, so I think I can process what I see. Mark I live in Southeast Charlotte, but I do reside in a valley type area.
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I have had OTA reception for the past year. I have been reading different boards/posts about which HD subscription service to partake in. My area has Charter cable (yuck!!) and still doesnt have HD to my knowledge. I see there are many people who have had good and bad experiences with all the providers.
Keeping this in mind, I decided to make the Voom plunge. The no $ upfront, no contract can't be beat in my opinion. If I dont like the service, I can call them back and tell them to come get it.
I havent forked out $750 on a box that wont work with any other DBS. Also by renting the equipment, if they decide to come out with a HDDVR I wont have to shell out another $999, but just an additional nominal fee (hopefully).
So if I do get rid of Voom, I can check out the other DBS services without an empty wallet.
J W
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I agree the lease option and also how they don't make you commit for a year is a great plus. You are basically checking out there stuff with no fear of being stuck in a long contract or paying tons of money up front for equipment.
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Another unusual item I have come across in my recent Voom experiences; I still have TW cable (for the locals in HD and INHD 1 & 2 and the HDNets) . This question applies to those out there who have the Toshiba "H" RPTV models. On TW cable, the Discovery channel plays using the "Normal" setting on picture size menu screen. You can select picture size with the remote using the Pic Size button. On Voom, the picture size uses the "Full" setting on Picture Size screen. This may be why the channel looks so much better on TW cable. Does anyone have any ideas as to why this is. Is it because it is upconverted on Voom? Do I have my settings incorrect? Any advice or opinions would be appreciated. Richard?
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Those settings should not affect a 16:9 broadcast, only 4:3. Full on my Mits means 4:3 is stretched to 16:9. Each input should have it's own settings. Try changing it and see if it makes a difference.
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>>Yes, my TV scans at 1080i, but 720p feeds do look better in some situations. Maybe I have bad equipment, But my eyes do not lie. I have never needed corrective lenses or anything, so I think I can process what I see.
It is not your eyes that lie; It is your inexperience with artifact free imaging which puts you in real good company. That is one of the benefits of an ISF calibration; Having a pro tell you if the picture looks the way it should.
When you use 720P on this display it is internally scaled to 1080I/540P and that means more artifacts. You would not be the first to perceive artifacts as an improvement. That is why manufacturers put “sales” artifacts in their product so you will be attracted to the display and buy it.
>>On TW cable, the Discovery channel plays using the "Normal" setting on picture size menu screen. You can select picture size with the remote using the Pic Size button. On Voom, the picture size uses the "Full" setting on Picture Size screen.
Are you talking about formatting on the display or from STBs?
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"Needless to say, I find the picture quality disappointing" Maybe, I'm missing something or just don't get it. Doesn't "voom" use the new ATSC MPEG2 "digital" coding? If so, then how can the picture quality be "disappointing". Logically, the new ATSC format should really "standardize" the "quality" shouldn't it? Or am I clueless?? As a computer user\programmer since the early 1980's I fully understand the concept of "digital" so please tell me if I'm clueless. ON or OFF, "DIGITAL" or NOT.....What's UP???!!!
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I have looked at your post a number of times and frankly I don't get it.
Starting at ground zero...
There is only one format that is correct with HD content and that is 16:9 and I do not know for sure what Toshiba calls that; Check your manual. If your STBs are set properly then you should have correct geometry with HD content and most SD content except for ESPN-HD and their stretched SD content to fill out the screen.
I have NEVER had to use any formatting features for HD programming.
Charlotte,
A slight chill on Monday but the evening was a bit too cool. Too cold, cloudy and rainy on Tuesday. Saw enough that we must return for warmer days and nights, green foilage and sunny skies!
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Nest time you are headed this way let me know.....I still would like to get my Toshiba calibrated. Unless of course you can suggest someone who is in the Charlotte area.
Mark
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"Needless to say, I find the picture quality disappointing" Maybe, I'm missing something or just don't get it. Doesn't "voom" use the new ATSC MPEG2 "digital" coding? If so, then how can the picture quality be "disappointing". Logically, the new ATSC format should really "standardize" the "quality" shouldn't it?"
Because MPEG2 is still a compression method....
MPEG2 is a lossy form of compression......
compression is rarely a good thing except for network admins......
I Have found precious few cable systems that state they
do not compress the source feed...
and no sat's at all.
To address this compression problem, the Motion Pictures Experts Group developed MPEG-2 video compression.
MPEG-2 compression is based on the principle that temporal and spatial redundancy in motion pictures make up the majority of the visual information that humans perceive. (In simple terms there's a lot of information in an uncompressed frame or movie that we do not need)
By comparing changes from frame to frame and removing as much of the "same" (redundant) information as possible the data storage and transfer requirements for the media are dramatically reduced.
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On the Tos 57h82, you have 5 different screen formats to choose from. Full, Theater-Wide 1, 2, 3 and Natural. Time Warner Cable and "D" use "Natural" for the normal display of their HD content while Voom HD material uses "Full". The other three formats involve zooming the picture to fill the screen at different ratios but you lose picture content when this is done. This very curious to me. While using Voom, the "Natural" selection is grayed out and not available. Anyone have one of these TV sets?
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The VOOM receiver is probably sending 1080i or 720p 16:9 to the TV input. The TV cannot do anything with this type of input. Those settings are for 4:3 480i/p inputs where you can pillarbox or stretch or zoom. That's why the choice is greyed out - you can't change it, nor do you need to.
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I am relieved that is not only my eyes that observed this. This is an excerpt from an article in the new "Sound & Vision". They reviewed Voom, overall they loved it except for a few of the complaints that I had stated in my original post. "The picture quality of Voom's Cinema 10 movie channels varied greatly. While some film transfers looked spectacular (I"m still amazed that the movie studios allow us to have a better experience at home than in $10-a-seat theaters), others looked soft, and several even looked grainy and dirty. Obviously, Voom doesen't have quality standards for its movie transfers." The "grainy and dirty" complaint was what I was stating earlier. The HDNet movie transfers are of much higher quality than Voom's Cinema 10.
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How do you know it's the transfer and not the original film? Films are often manipulated to give a certain "look" or feel (they totally changed the color in O Brother where Art Thou? e.g.). Unless they are comparing different transfers of the same movie you don't really know if it's the transfer or the film.
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Rob, what I'm trying to say is that you can't change the T.V format on a HDTV signal. Like Zoom, Pan, Full, etc. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this. I thought a T.V could only do this on a SD signal and not a 1080i or 720p signal.
Next, in your previous post about PQ you never said that the Cinema 10- looked grainy. You said
Except for a few channels, like Discovery HD and Bravo, everything has that up-converted look: slightly grainy and a bit soft
Thats a little different then saying,
The picture quality of Voom's Cinema 10 movie channels varied greatly. While some film transfers looked spectacular (I"m still amazed that the movie studios allow us to have a better experience at home than in $10-a-seat theaters), others looked soft, and several even looked grainy and dirty
Which really isn't Voom's fault. Its the studios doing the crappy HD Transfer, which if read further into the article it says that they will be talking about Quality Control of these programs in the near future.
Again this is only on the Cinema 10 and the picture still looks 1000 better then SD.
Rob if you feel Directv is so much better then why not go back and sign on for another year or so with Directv. I'm sure they will be adding tons of New Hi-Def channels in the near future. Don't hold your breath. I waited for my Locals which they promised for over a year and they still don't have them up yet with that 7S satellite.
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Excuse me on the details Stev-o, but I think you know what I was talking about. They mostly use pan-n-scan on a lot of their content, this too may be why you get the grainy-soft look. Bravo and Discovery are amazing though.
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And so is 95% of all there other programming. The 1 channel that sometimes is not upto Hi-Def Standards is the Cinema 10 which like Robby says is SOMETIMES Panned and Scanned since it is formated from the studios in a wider format. But the other 30 channels are impressive. Not just Discover HD and Bravo HD.
Robby my problem with your 1st post is that you made it sound like Voom's HD Programming is grainy and not good except for Discovery HD and Bravo HD which I completly disagree with. I will agree with you on that the Programming that they have to Pan and Scan on the Cinema 10(Which is only some of the Movies on Cinema 10) does not look as good as everything else but again its still 100 times better then SD programming.
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I will post an announcement. Look forward to seeing you as well!
Richard F. Fisher
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