<To take advantage of 480P DVD players you need a native 480P scan rate. If you do not have that the best is typically 480I in to the display.> (Richard)
I have been following the discussions about DVD players' scan rates, resolutions, etc., with great interest. I have been resisting the possibility that my carefully chosen Denon 910 progressive scan DVDP might actually deliver a better picture if set to 480i, allowing my Hitachi 42" PDP to do the processing. Well, I finally tried it this weekend, and.... the difference is quite gratifying; there is greater detail, cleaner colors, more dynammic range - in short, a much better picture. "Finding Nemo" is positively luminous, with a true "3d" look and wonderful surface detail. If your display doesn't support native 480p and you haven't tried this, give it a shot. (naturally, your mileage may vary)
regards, billb....
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I have to admit, I've been getting more and more confused with each new discussion about native scan rates going on this board in various topic discussions lately. My understanding is that regular old crt tvs were 480i, and that anything that is HD capable either has a native scan rate of 720p or 1080i. I have a Samsung DLP which has a native scan rate of 720p. But, it takes 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i signals. I know it takes everything but 720p by up/down converting to 720p. This is the case with other TVs with native 1080i converting everything not 1080i to 1080i. But, what display type actually has 480p as its native scan rate? If there isn't any, are you saying there is no point to having a DVD player with progressive scan capability?
I've seen some posts in other discussions suggesting that you should only feed the TV what it's native scan rate is. But, how do you do that when half of HD programming is in 1080i, half is in 720p and DVDs are 480p? If I opt not to use my DVD player's prog scan, and let it come through in 480i, that's not native to my TV either. If someone could help me unravel this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
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>>But, what display type actually has 480p as its native scan rate?
Mits, Sony, Panasonic and some others. These are CRT only displays. These also have a native 1080I/540P for HD content.
>>If there isn't any, are you saying there is no point to having a DVD player with progressive scan capability?
Pretty much. All that is oooooooooold info from about 2 years ago when nearly all CRT displays had a native 480P scan rate.
>>I've seen some posts in other discussions suggesting that you should only feed the TV what it's native scan rate is. But, how do you do that when half of HD programming is in 1080i, half is in 720p and DVDs are 480p?
For SD and DVD an external scaler. DVD only a DVI enabled player. For HD let the STB do the scaling.
>>If I opt not to use my DVD player's prog scan, and let it come through in 480i, that's not native to my TV either.
Right. For some reason though these internal scalers generate less artifacts with the native scan rate of 480I. I will guess that maybe the deinterlacing section is not bypassed with 480P which it should be since that process has already been done.
If someone could help me unravel this, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
Richard F. Fisher
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Thanks for the clarification. Right now, I have my Motorola DVR/HD Cable Box set to 720p so that when the signal is 720p it transfers it directly, but when it's anything else, I've got it set to do nothing so that the TV (Sammy DLP) does the scaling (other options are to have the STB convert the signal to 480p, 720p or 1080i itself). I read somewhere that my TV probably has a better scaler than the cable box. From your post, it sounds like you disagree though. Which would you go with?
For DVD, I so far have left it on progressive out and have it connected to the component input that accepts 480p, 720p and 1080i. If I switch the DVD player to output 480i, I'll have to change the input as one of the faults of the Sammy DLP (I believe corrected in this year's models) is that none of the component inputs accept all 4 formats. My DVD player does not have a DVI (hope to get one down the road a bit). But, the TV only has one DVI input anyway, which I plan to use for the cable box as soon as I get confirmation that it is in fact enabled on the box. The reason I'm using the component input for my DVD player that accepts all progressive scan rates instead of the one that accepts just 480i/480p (which was intended for DVD players), is because I also have a PS2 hooked up which needs to have 480i for some menu functions. Since the DVD player could be set to progressive, I figured this was the best idea. Do you think the increase in picture quality by switching the DVD player to 480i is worth the hassle of moving things around and not having full setup menu visibility on the PS2?
Finally, for SD programming, you recommended an external scaler. Isn't this what the STB is?
Thanks.
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<Bill, it's not that Richard's right; I can't take the credit. It's just science. Thanks for giving it a shot!>
You can certainly take credit for having the right information and being persistent/insistent about sharing it. I was not exaggerating when I said that I had to overcome my own resistance to try your suggestion - reluctance to acknowledge an error is frequently an obstacle to improvement. I made the point so that folks who are less familiar with this forum would see that you have a record of giving good technical advice. Thank you.
regards, billb....
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Yes, that can be a huge barrier that is difficult to overcome. On my end I have to work with the conclusions I know to be true at the time and remain open to other possibilities as they arise. That is what science is; Evolving.
>>I read somewhere that my TV probably has a better scaler than the cable box. From your post, it sounds like you disagree though. Which would you go with?
The box. Try either one and tell me what you think. The correct choice is the one that looks closest to what you would get on an old analog TV yet as I say that there is still the issue of knowing whether or not your old analog TV looked right to begin with. It's not easy when you are looking for accuracy; Gotta know the source first.
>>For DVD, I so far have left it on progressive out and have it connected to the component input that accepts 480p, 720p and 1080i. If I switch the DVD player to output 480i, I'll have to change the input as one of the faults of the Sammy DLP (I believe corrected in this year's models) is that none of the component inputs accept all 4 formats.
An external scaler would resolve most if not all of these problems.
Another solution is to use a component switcher to expand one of the display inputs.
>>Do you think the increase in picture quality by switching the DVD player to 480i is worth the hassle of moving things around and not having full setup menu visibility on the PS2?
Only you know the answer to that question butyou will have to go through the trouble to find out.
Finally, for SD programming, you recommended an external scaler. Isn't this what the STB is?
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>>Only you know the answer to that question but you will have to go through the trouble to find out.
I had a feeling you were going to say that. I like the component switcher suggestion though.
As for the external scaler you recommended for SD TV, aren't I using an an external scaler in the STB?
For purposes of comparing whether my STB or my TV does a better job at scaling, what types of differences are we talking about? Is it that the better scaler will result in sharper pictures? Less video noise? More accurate colors? None of the above? All of the above?
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External means a dedicated box outside of either your STB or the TV. These are normally much higher quality than the ones integrated with STBs and TVs, and they normally have the price tag to prove it.
I'll leave the technical discussion to Richard.
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I like the component switcher suggestion though.