Hello. This is Big Red's Stable, a board that can be used for both as a chat board and a guestbook. Use it either way but I'd appreciate it if you would leave a message here so people can get together and talk about horses, horseracing, or whatever. Thank-you :-)
Rules
1. RESPECT EVERYONE! Meaning to all readers, respect the posts you read on this board; and to all the posters, respect all the readers on this board.
2. No Debates/Arguments! I'm sick and tired of arguements on this board! If you want to know how to treat a person on this board, see rule #1.
3. NO X rated stuff on this board!
4. Watch your language!
5. If you wish to change your name/handle, PLEASE let us on the board know what the new handle is. That way we can identify you when you post.
6. If someone posts a message you think is inappropriate, then please email me and I'll look into it. But don't post back at them, that starts fights on this board in the first place.
If you can agree to these rules, then you are more than welcome to post on this board. Welcome :-)
Does Gainesway have tours of the farm? Or is it strictly by appointment? I was just wondering. If it was possible to be in a tour group of the farm. I have been looking to visit that farm for a while. And with a big name now there I would definitly like to visit it.
Does Anyone know? comment if you do
i didn`t know he was the top sire in japane
what are some of his famous offspring
you know how some stallions are better on teh track then at stud and vis versa well i think a stallion will want to be better at stud then the track
but i am sure all want to be good at both
It is a simple answer, as MoW Lover said Thoroughbreds derived from Arabians: the Darley, the Turk, and the Godolphin. Hindoo who was a Arabian derived from one of those three, and so did his offspring, and their offspring, and so on, so he is allowed in the pedigree, because he was a horse who contributed to the thoroughbred breed. Good question though, I hope you like my info.
That is where Thoroughbreds came from. Most Thoroughbreds of the 1800`s had Arabian Breeding in them. Breeders used Arabians in breeding Thoroughbreds.
i knew tehy came from arabians it just didn`t pop in my head
cause i have not been thinkin straight i am thinking about wildfire.
thanks for the answer thought
Afleet Alex to stand at Gainesway for $40,0000. Antony Beck said this "Having Afleet Alex stand at Gainesway is one of the mose exciting moments in our 18 year history of owning Gainesway."
I hope the horse I picked to win the Derby, who did win the Derby, Giacomo is a great racehorse as a 4 year old, I hope he runs just like his daddy Holy Bull, I also would like to see a change in his coat color due to age by the end of his 4 year old season, to remind me of Holy Bull. I do think Giacomo will do quite well, he did we'll at the end of his 3 year old campaign, his Belmont being a throw out with the flipped palate and all, it was obvious he wasn't himself. I also adore his running style, and heck maybe lightning will strike twice at Churchill Downs come next Ocotober for the big grey horse. We'll thats who I am looking forward to out of all the "dark horses" although I want to see them all, and I hope the little colt Wilko runs a win tommorrow(really today where I live), thanks for reading.
Yes, I couldnt agree with you more. You had Secretatiat, Bid, Slew, Affirmed, Forego, Ruffian, just to name a few. The 40's had some greats as well, with Citation, Count Fleet, Whirlaway, and Assault, but I'd still say the 70's were the best.
ok i know it is a show but it is a show about horse racing and 2 rivel farms just anyway i was just wondering if anyone wacths it is is really good i love it!and if u want to see what i am talking about the january second at 7am(early)central they will be playing a marathon then after the marathon the season 2 premeir shows
ok it is manly aboout the davis farms(top racing farm)
and the ritter(raintree)they used to be top but her ex husband gambeled.and they kids but one girl(kris)she is a helper but the ritter son and the davis son(which are best friend)both really like her.
Im curious to hear some expert opinions on who would have won the much anticipated match race between Native Dancer and Tom Fool back in 1953.
I'm kind of torn between the two, as I think Tom Fool was nearly unbeatable as a 4 yr old, but Native Dancer seemed to always come from behind and do enough to win. The stalking horse seems to have an advatage, but I don't know if I could pick a winner!
Please respond
Personally, I think Native Dancer was a better horse, but I think it would be hard for him to beat Tom Fool under the circumstances it was going to be.
There has been alot of speculation since Afleet Alex retired this past week. On how grueling the Triple Crown is on horses. He is the 2nd horse in 2 year's to retire with injuries withstand during the TC. Many new's reporters are writing how their should be a longer break inbetween the races a 4 week period in between each. Preakness 1st day in June. Belmont, July 4
What do you guys think should happen? Keep Same or Change?
I think it should stay the same, we need a traditional hero, eventually one horse will bring back the TC, and we'll all go it was worth the wait. I also think the use of bute and other performance enhancers should be ban from racing, we need it like the good old days, maybe the performance enhancers are actually causing some horses to do worse, it is just a thought.
they are going to shorting the belmont which i sstupit and i think it should stay the same cause the triple crown is to see who is tha best and the supior horse right.well if u change it u are taking away its meaning to test a horse supiorness and it showes how much a horse want to win cause of the way the triple crown is
My appologies for taking so long to do this, but to everone who is new to the board. Welcome.
If the "fights" on this board bothers you, the trick is trying to figure out which is a fight and which is just a discussion. Horse racing is a very passionate sport and in giving opinions people tend to sometimes go off a bit. The trick is trying to figure out how much is attitude and how much is just heart for the love of the sport.
And to EVERYONE on the board, even though I've been a bit busy in my live off the net, I am still watching this board, so NO FIGHTS. The rules at the top of this board still applies.
Horses to look out for in 2006 And were they've been
by Horse Racing Fan
Bandini: He had a chip removed from his right front ankle after his disastrous 19th-place finish in the Kentucky Derby, and has no workouts since. But this is a colt who was good enough to be a strong second in the Fountain of Youth Stakes in just his fourth career start, and then he blew away his field in the Blue Grass. So, the requisite quality is there.
^^That answered my ? :)
Bellamy Road: You could say that he doesn't exactly fly below everyone's radar, but he isn't at the top of everyone's list of potential big horses of 2006, either. He was absolutely breathtaking winning the Wood Memorial by 17 1/2 lengths in excellent time, so sensational, in fact, that he was the favorite in the Kentucky Derby despite lacking the type of prep schedule that traditionally is successful. He suffered a splint injury finishing seventh in the Derby, but showed his quality finishing second in the Travers off a 3 1/2-month layoff, only to suffer another splint injury.
Buzzards Bay: The upset winner of the Santa Anita Derby has been on a few people's "good horse waiting to happen" list ever since his tantalizing wide move late on the far turn in the Kentucky Derby before winding up fifth. He was a decent third in the Discovery for new trainer Ron Ellis, and has the Sunshine Millions Classic on Jan. 28 at Santa Anita as his first major goal of 2006.
Don't Get Mad: Fourth in the Derby just one week after winning the Derby Trial, and subsequent winner of the Northern Dancer Breeders' Cup and Indiana Derby, he will have a new, as yet to be determined trainer when he returns sometime in the spring.
Slide show
• Images of the Triple Crown
See images from the Belmont Stakes, Preakness Stakes and Kentucky Derby.
Greeley's Galaxy: Had a bad trip when 11th in the Kentucky Derby, and was pin-fired after his dismal seventh in the Preakness, but he did have four published workouts in November. The ability he demonstrated winning the Illinois Derby by 9 1/2 lengths was not an optical illusion, and is certainly more representative of his abilities.
Magna Graduate: Like Bellamy Road, he is not exactly a state secret, and that is because of the marked improvement he has shown since moving into Todd Pletcher's barn. For Pletcher, Magna Graduate finished second in the Ohio and West Virginia derbies before reeling off wins in the Pegasus, Discovery, and Clark Handicap. The win in the Clark was particularly noteworthy, because it made this colt one of only two 3-year-olds this year to win an important race over good older horses, the other being Silver Train, who won the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
Rockport Harbor: Lost virtually all of this year due to a difficult foot injury, but is now back working. He entered 2005 as one of the future book favorites for the Kentucky Derby off an excellent 2-year-old campaign that saw him win all four of his starts, including the Nashua and Remsen.
Suave: He found himself this year, winning the Saratoga Breeders' Cup, and finishing second in the Jockey Club Gold Cup and Clark, in which he lost by just a head. But his best effort may have been his fifth in the Breeders' Cup Classic, where he was beaten only three lengths. He may hook up again with Magna Graduate in the Donn Handicap on Feb. 4 at Gulfstream Park.
Slide show
• Championship day
See images from the 2005 Breeders' Cup at Belmont Park.
Sun King: Like Rockport Harbor, he also entered 2005 as one of the favorites for the Kentucky Derby off a pair of thirds in the 2004 Breeders' Cup Juvenile and Champagne, but he did not progress at the rate demanded by the schedule of the Triple Crown. He did, however, show flashes late in the season, like his runaway win in the Pennsylvania Derby after breaking from post 14. And his ninth in the Breeders' Cup Classic was better than it looks on paper, as he contested the pace while racing on the deeper rail.
Surf Cat: He showed a world of potential when he ran off and hid in the Swaps Breeders' Cup in just his second attempt in a stakes. He is supposedly targeting the Strub Series at Santa Anita, which begins with the Malibu the day after Christmas, but he has no published works since he galloped in an allowance race at Oak Tree in October.
Survivalist: His status is also a bit unclear, as he has not been seen in the morning or afternoon since his fourth in the Riva Ridge Breeders' Cup on Belmont Stakes Day. However, he did win the Gotham in his first stakes attempt while giving the impression his best races were well ahead of him. He also has an impeccable pedigree (Danzig-Miner's Game), and is in the hands of a master, Shug McGaughey.
Slide show: The Week in Sports Pictures
• Nov. 28-Dec. 4:
Bloody boxer, deft Dawg, blurry Sonic, and more.
Tap Day: Forget his unsuccessful attempt in the Japan Cup Dirt, this soon-to-be 5-year-old ran the race of his life in October, running away with the Meadowlands Breeders' Cup, dominating Alumni Hall, who came back to win the Fayette, and Purge, who came back to score in the Cigar Mile.
Wilko: The upsetter of the 2004 Breeders' Cup Juvenile was compromised early this year by a quarter crack problem, which puts a different perspective on his close third in the Santa Anita Derby and his decent sixth in the Kentucky Derby. Then, he had an ankle chip removed after a dismal effort in the Preakness. He is training very well now, though, and is scheduled to make his comeback in the Malibu
is that poeple think sec is better then mow cause sec won the triple crowen and becasue non of mows records stand
he is why
todays tracks are faster then in the 1919 and 1920
when man o war smashed(not cliped ot broke but obleveated)theses records he was carry a lot of weight for his age and was being held back and sec greatest preformence was the belmont rite well man o war ran like that every race
the most sec carried was 126 with aluminam shoes that is a equel of what 127 lb(correct me if i am wrong i am not good in math)
mow carried mostly 130 but carryed 138 once and wore iron shoes that is an equel to what 140 or more pounds and still obliveated record after record when sec just cliped or broke a record
and when sec lost he was fading when mow lost he was gaining on upset as sonn as upset hit the finnish line mow past him up
so did i get the weights rite when i added the weight of the shoes to the weight they carried.
i would like to know what what u think of what i wrote if u agree or disagree
In the Potomac MOW set a track record and gave Wild Air 30 lbs.
MOW carried 138 lbs that day and that was the most weight ever given any 3 yr old in history at that time. Wild Air was owned by H P Whitney and was a NY Handicap series champion. More important that the high weight itself is the difference or swing in the weights carried. IF both horses carried 138 lbs there is no handicap. It is the swing in weights that makes the difference.
MOW has set the most times records while giving the most weight to his opponnents. MOW gave J P Grier 18 lbs in the Dwyer.
Even Vosberg(NY Track Handicapper)got carried away that day. He said "The two champions appeared walking slowly to the post together, like the kings, Richard of England and Philip of France going to the Crusades." MOW ran a "Last 1/8" in the Dwyer that was 3/5 of a second faster than PAR for a final 1/8 in a route race in those days. He drove the "Pace Graph" up! This was after unremmitting head to head pressure from J P Grier. That head to head pressure alone should have taken 10 to 20 lengths out of each horse even if the pace had been a lot slower. This is "The Race of the Century" The 3/16 pole where J P Grier passed MOW was preserved and is still on diplay at Aqueduct today in the front lawn. I have seen it many times.
MOW carried more weight than Secretariat yes indeed he did. More importantly is that he gave away much more wieight than Secretariat. No one can say which horse was better. I never tried to form on opinion on that. I have wondered how can you prove it.
i was just askin and i was not trying to say that man o war was better eithr no i think he is.I was just say that it aggervates me becasue people don`t kow what there are talkin about
there are 4 main reasons mow did not run in teh kentucky derby
>it was not a big race back then
>there was no such thing as triple crown
>traveling was very stressfull for a horse so there was no reason to stress him out just to win a low grade stakes race
> riddle did not think it was rite to run the early in may
there are 4 main reasons mow did not run in teh kentucky derby
>it was not a big race back then
>there was no such thing as triple crown
>traveling was very stressfull for a horse so there was no reason to stress him out just to win a low grade stakes race
> riddle did not think it was rite to run the early in may
I am a huge fan of both. I just happen to think in "my opinion" that Secretariat is better. Horse Racing is very natural and is one of the sports that has least changed! The thing that attract's me to Sec. is the fact that everytime he ran he ran his heart out. (And had one of the biggest heart's ever measured and did Phar Lap) MOW was great and so was Sec they are both the two best of the 20th century! in fact on many webpages Secretariat holds a narrow lead over MOW in rankings on who's better. So what if the track's are faster now?. It's not in their feet that made them great it was their hearts and i think sometimes people forget who much they love to run and sometimes they just happen to do amazing things..break track records. world records..It's the good one's like MOW and Sec people will never forget!
No horse i ever saw in 50 years won with out 4 feet. The way the feet hit and pop up makes the time!!! The more flexion the more fatigue in a horse. HE will get more tired on a deep sandy track surface,. So what if track was slower in 1920??? Missing the point??????
JP Grier and MOW both ran a faster 6 fl 1:09 3/5 than SEC 1:09 4/5. They had to more than 1/5 faster to do that with so much sand to lift with their feet.
J P Grier was a much stronger opponnent than Sham. The point was how good an opponnents did they face??????
No race has ever been won in an opinion poll. You can not prove which was better without the two racing together.
Today` s posters never saw MOW. He is no fake legend..
And the measure of any top is how to withstand a fast pace and carry the speed to a mile and 1/2 or longer.
Allowing for speed varience in a track is paramount to handicapping success. U cant say so what another track is slower. No brainer. All who saw Riddles Films of Dwyer amazed at how full of run MOW was. Should have been spent badly
SO RIGHT, people dont add the fact of the years of difference and how racing has been changed since them days. I would love to see a race between them both on equal terms.
I think there is a misconception about MOW opponnents.
His opponnents were very strong.
In the Dwyer MOW faced J P GRier one on one. They ran together for 1 mile and 40 yards before MOW pulled away.
They did the first 6 fl together in 1:09 3/5 That was faster than the track record for 6 fl. J P Grier did not fadfe after that speed battle. Noe Sec in the Belmont ran 1:09 4/5 a fifth slower on a much faster track Sham his opponnent faded to OBLIVION right after the six fl run. Sham did it on a much less tiring track and in slower time!!!!
The 1920 track was deep soft sand and a horses foot slides an inch or two and then sinks into the sand making it hard for the horse to get his feet up and out of the sand. Thus a much slower time and it is much more tiring after a mile. The 1973 track was a moder paste board track extra fast yet Sham faded badly
While J P Grier stayed powerful and even got his head in front of MOW. J P greir went faster on a much slower track and lasted much better than Shem.
J P Grier was a much stronger opponnent than Sham. JP Grier was in better shape than Sham and MOW faced a stronger opponnent than Sham who faced SEc in the Belmont.
Sham was a leg weary soul in the Belmont after 6 fl. I saw that with my own eyes.
Riddle`s film of the Dwyer (I have not seen) shows both MOW and J P GRIER dancing on the wind to a mile and 40 yds into the race. Neither horse was tired. The jockey was suprised the JP got hiss head in front. Gentle tap and MOW pulled away.
A mind boggelling cracker for MOW. It is the only world record ever set with eye to eye pressure for 1 mile and 150 yards. The last 70 yards MOW eased and so did JP Grier.
MOW has faced the stiffest competiton in history when setting a world record.
MOW faced a stronger opponnent that the opponnents SEC faced.
i saw a fair play statue on the internet and someone need sto repaint in it is chiped paint every were i mean the horse is in hall of fame so don`t u think they would keep is staue pretty
Is any one as upset as me to see this little colt! I would love to see him again! If it will take 6-8 months to heal then that would bring him back in June-July. That's the middle of the Summer some of the best racing ever.
Or do you think the owner's are taking the easy way out and are just tired of injuries. Plauqing this wonder colt? Maybe he'll be a good Stud..
i have a friend that loves him and he told me that he hurt his leg they repared it then again he hurt again
maybe they are retireing so they don`t rask him falling again but then it would be fatel and stop him from being a good stud
Did you ever watch Afleet Alex race?
He didn't fall Scrappy T (probably going to be the most hated horse Since Birdstone denied Smarty in Belmont)swerved right into him in the turn of the Preakness. He regained strenght and won the preakness in the fastest time in the last 5 years. not to mention by 4/3/4 lengths! I knew that he couldn't be okay after an injury like that it made me wonder, and then 3 weeks later to win the Belmont by 7 and to sprint home in the fastest quarter since 1969? It's a shame..
i have seen on tv every tc race since 2003 cause that is when i foun out what it was cuase i was 10 and just started to really like horse racing but i have always loved horses but i thought thats what keeped him out of the breeders cup cause he hurt his leg then he came back on the track then hurt it again
Okay..My first race since I'm only 15 was Red Bullet winning the Preakness in 2000. I thought it was the coolest thing ever! Afleet Alex was definitly my favorite horse this year and half of last year! I will miss seeing him race.
I hear that Afleet Alex's dam is in foal to Awesome Again (Ghostzapper's Sire) this might be a foal to watch out for since Maggy Hawk has already given us two good runner's.
If Scrappy T would have won he would have been disqualified for interfering with another horse Afleet Alex. Alas Afleet Alex did the unthinkable and won by 4/3/4 lengths!
i was lookin at horse racing books and there was this book called great horse racing mysterys andone of the chapters was about phar lap but i looked for phar lap info and every thing i reaad did not say notin so what mysteries thing happened to him?
Phar Lap was in many Aussie's opinion the best Australian horse ever! He had won every big race in Australia. Including the "Big Cap" so he came to American to run in a race (Drawing Blank On Name) Which he won easily. The gelding was found about a few weeks to have colic. No one know's how. The legend died of colic after a few hours. It is said that the grass he grazed was sprayed with infesticide's which triggered colic. Most Aussie's think it was murder. that the American's did it. This is truly sad he was a great horse!
I would suggest renting his movie! Phar Lap The Movie! It is a great movie! It will tell you more
were did his groom get the name bobby from phar lap
native dancer-grey ghost
mow&sec-big bed
phar lap-bobby(weird)
the other 3 i can onderstand were they got that but nit were they got bobby from for phar lap
Phar Lap's strapper, Tommy Woodcock was no different to any other stable hand, they all nickname horses.
Bobby, Billy, Curley, Freddy, Jacko etc, all names that are commomly used, no stable workers ever refer to the horse by their registered name, it's more convenient to shorten the name to something more personal like Bobby, plus it's good security at trackwork and around the stables, as the only ones who know the nicknames are the stable connections.
Unlike 'Bobby' the names 'Big Red' and 'Grey Ghost' were not stable nicknames but were descriptive titles created by the press to add excitement to those horse's status.
For what it's worth, Phar Lap was also, and still is referred to as 'Big Red' here in Australia.
I don't see anything weird about the name 'Bobby', if Woodcock had nicknamed him 'Rumpelstiltskin' then, Yes, I'd agree it was a weird nickname.
i guess just most of race horses nicknames come from there name or there personalty i just don`t see were bobby comes from and just thought id ask and thatnk for the replys
I would have to disagre with you guys on conformation of the horse, Secretariat was to have been remarked by many horsemen as the greatest conformation-wise horse since Buckpasser, possibly ever, he was great looking, great height and weight, he was a special gift in one great package were as MoW had a Roman nose, which is a very down-looked upon feature in conformation status, he also didn't have any leg markings, were as Secretariat had 3 beautiful stockings, I would have to disagree with you but I respect your opinions.
but i read that people said that he didn`t even look like he could run 6f
and man o war is a gorgus hore i think he looks better then sec but that is my opionon
Roman noses are looked down upon only in vanity, it is mainly looked down upon by judges is the show ring not for other disciplin, legend says roman noses are the sign of a loyal horse.. not sure about that now, but they dont always pass on to progeny. Personally I dont like horses with too much white (takes too much time to bath, what with all the chalk and they are subsequently going to find the biggest mud hole possible), but white feet are not as strong as that of black feet. White feet are usually softer and are more prone to white line disease and other hoof ailments. I agree Secretariat was pretty but he was not as good as a race horse nor stud as MOW. Yes Sec had good conf but I am biased to MOW!
why MOW never raced in Kentucky or the final race of the triple crown? Its something that I really would like the ansew to. I also cannot understand why they retired him after only two years. Very good stud horse though!!
he ran in the belmont and the preakness and they retires him to stud cause he was boying a tendon and cause as a 4 years old he would carry +140 lbs.
the reason he never raced in the kentuky is becuase it was not that of an importan race and traveling was very stressful for a horse in 1920s and he thought it was to early and may to run a 3 yr
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/manomano/compar.html
this is a site that gives a comparison and this is how i found this site but
i think man o war is better but that is your opinon and i DID NOT post this website to start a debat ok sao hopefully it willnot be like the othe website i posted here.
I am new on this site and so far during looking at peoples postings and reply, there is a lot of arguing going on. This is a site to discuss great racehorses, not a chance to insult and upset people. So lets please leave it at discussing the great race horses and leave out the messages of conflict, not dissagreement, the ones that really do put people off. We have to remember that there are people with different ranges of knowledge, people wanting to learn more and those who are of various different ages who us this site. Lets keep it friendly and stop winding others up into a conflict, we dont need to read that kind of thing!... Please!
before he was sold to howerd what do u think his form looked like is sucked he was but in a race 2 a week and he lost every one till smith.red,and howerd came around
and welcome to teh bord and my way of picking horse works good for me,people have diffrent ways off picking .
amd i do respect peoples opinions
if it is muddy bigger feet help iy even out its weight so it does not sink and if it does not sink it does not have to use more energy.
but i was reading about a famous horse tamer and he said that the eye is the window of the soul so if u look in teh eyes u can see it.
The window to the soul is the eye but when it comes to racing; the horse is not in a natural state, it is wound up, the nutrient levels change the attitude totally as the horses feed depicts the energy level and the overall performance, it all comes down to stress and and what is called, Performance Under Stress, this is the mental state of any horse that is in surroundings that are alien to them. Each horse is totally different, each has its own personality as do we, althopugh it may possibly work for you, this is something I will see as only down to personal opinion. Feet, I jockeyed and trained in England, one of the wettest countries in the world, most races under moderate to heavy going especially march to may and the size of foot does not make any difference. Red Rum was unitl he died the only horse to ever win the grand national 3 times in a row, under heavy going with a wieght dissadvatage of 12lbs over the other horses (this is a steeple chase too) yet had very small hard feet and this was of no dissadvantage. But your opinion is your opinion and I respect that.
Seabiscuit is half brother to my mare Dam. Seabiscuit had the worsted conformation on a race horse ever seen, he was a risk racer. His sire Hard Tack had good conformation and when Seabiscuit was born, he was a dissapointment. Seabiscuit was one in a million especially when he had so much against him, it was luck, hard work and determination by owner trainer and horse. Thank you for the welcome to the board too, I really appreciate that.
Im far too young to retire, I got my first pony when i was 2, from 16 worked as trainer and jockeyed 3 times, great fun. I show jump now and breed american warmbloods.. TB Appaloosa crosses, got my first two babies due april and may.. cannot wait. Me and my husband are looking for a nice tb colt and hopefully starting again over here within the next two years to race.
Do you have any horses? What made you get into racing? It is great fun, I will pick horses for people but never bet myself.. I always lose if I do it myself! Any plans to become a jockey?
i have 4 horses and i want to own a d train race horses after i graduat equestrian science collage
i want to have he first filly to win the tc.:)
i was really young when i saw the black stallion and i am 13 now and that is what got me into horse racing then for my 10 birthday my parents brought me to the fairground ever since i want to own race horses
Okay, thats good. I still have two ex racers in england, Summer Love is a chestnut mare won 3, 2 3rds, retired as broodmare then I bought her for jumping, shes old now, and Hilda, bay mare, won 1, 5 4ths, broke her hip, and I recued her from the inevitable and once i got her right she was put in foal. What horses do you have now? ie TBs.... or other breeds.
charlie-5yr-welsh/mix
bambi-3 yr-welsh/quarter/mix
sugar cube-2-yr-welsh/mix
bama-17yr-quarter horse:her full sister won the national barrel raceing championships
i understand blinding speed cause if something goes by really fast it can be really blury but i don`t why they call it blistering speed
so if anyone knows were they got "blistering speed"for please tell
The term "Blistering Speed" comes from the fact that a horses` front legs would scrape the ground and produce blisters on his feet where he cold least tolerate it. A horse was running so fast he got blisters on his fore legs. That term was old when I started in 1953.
If you are sick and tired of posting here then why did you ask?
I have just found this web site, I would like to know if others agree with me, Man'o war was a better race horse than Secretariat!!! I am lucky enough to own Man'o wars great grandaughter, and this has become main topic of conversation with many people who like to say Secretariat was better, my view is that if thats the case then why is he NO 2 not NO 1! Am I alone in thinking this?
Man o war had a tremendous 28 feet stride, secretariats is only 21 feet. I doubt any other race horse will ever hold a candle to Man o war, and i do wish he had ridden the triple crown, he proved he could win when he won the match race with Sir Barton and the owners of sir barty then cried that he had foot problems, this is because he Man o war won by an embarrasing 7 lengths. My friend says her horse is grandaughter to Secretariat, (which i doubt as there is no papers to show it) and has the idea that just cause sec took the triple crown that her horse (who is half morgan, tb) is better bred. I say wrong as sec was very badly put together, conformation faults, man o war was not. my mare has his hieght and build but i havent let her go yet, shes 3, her mom is man o wars grand daughter, she flew, 24 feet stride but used for jumping. I have yet to test B, in foal at the moment so have to wait 8 more months. I think there is one way to solve the disbute on speed, computorised! Put Secretariat, and man o war on there best day of racing onto one mastered race against each other and see what the out come is. My girl is just like him too, but she wont race! If I can get it done I will let you know the outcome of the race. Im from england, i know live in TN and we have a huge racing scene, I used to work at Newmarket, The National Stud, race horse breeding at its best. If you ever get chance to go over, go see the place.
i was reading reviews ona book bout 11 greatest rae horses and this woman said that man o war is overrated and that ruffian and sec could make him look like a nag.
i said to my sell no mow would make hem look like nags
MOW was a fantastic horse, great conformation and ranked #1 best race horse of 20th century, how could Sec put MOW to shame, the facts say it all.. MOW 20/21 races won, Sec 16/21 races won, it doesnt make Sec bettr cos of the Triple Crown, MOW would have took it in a heart beat especially when he beat sir barton (TC winner) by an embarrasing 7 lengths! Sec was not half the horse!
i read every were that just cuase he won the tc means sec is better and just cuase he was a great horse means he had good kidsd
only 2 good offspring of him that a good and that is Risen Star and Lady Secret
mow was better on the track and stud them sec
Personally I don't even think Man o' War is in the top 5 greatest of all-time, he is alot of legend you must remember, where as Secretariat is more recent and was tried against the hardest competition on all kinds of surfaces on all kinds of tracks, were as Man o' War rarely traveled and raced against, well... little competition. Also, Secretariat's avg. stride length throughout a race was 25 ft, not fully extended mind you, not 21 ft, he was a SUPERHORSE and no horse before or since, in my opinion, could keep with him on their best day.
was high class horses john p grier was the second best horse of his genatration
i read that is john p grier wasn`t born in the same year om mow he could have been a great horse but oh well and cleopathra is a good filly
is compiton was not the highest class in the world but was high class
Judged by a group of 6 experts, MOW was ranked #1 of all 20th century racehorses, he is also ranked in the world somewhere but will have to look that one up.. dont quote me now!! I got the stride wrong then oops, thats cos i dont concentrate too good with pcs too busy trying to hurry the post ha ha. Read the top 100 horses of 20th century, its all in there. Theres a few of them types of books. But, Sec won 16/21 races Mow 20/21. Beat only by jhockey being totally unready!
was so good they thought he couldn`t lose
so they thought that they jockey did something and they got there jockeying licsnes away for life.
rite after they crosed the finish line mow paseed him up...to bad that race was not a little longer.he would have smoked upset
I have to agree with Afleet Alex. I think that Secretariat is a better horse. While Man O War is not far behind. Let's look at the facts...
*Secretariat
Race Record: 21 starts
16 wins, 3 seconds, 1 third
Earnings: $1,316,808
Records Set: 2 world records, 3 track records, tied 1 track record
This is very true about why he lost whether he was done in by a false pace, a sloppy track, disqualification, or sickness, there was just enough quality to his losses to remind us that brilliance in a racehorse is a rare.
*Man O War
Race Record: 21 starts
20 wins, 1 second
Earnings: $249,465
Records Set: 3 world records, 2 American records, 3 track records
*Make Note that most of MOW's records have been broken some of which were broken by his son only 20 years later. Most of Secretariat's record's still stand over 32 year's and counting. Secretariat should have 3 world records but his jock held him back he only missed the record by a tick...
*Sec. also beat the one of the finest field's ever in the Marlboro Cup beating horses who have a year or two on him. Like Afleet Alex said he tried every surface and won on them. MOW stuck to dirt. I think Sec. was a very versaitle horse. People say he can't run in mud but he did win a race in the mud as a two year old.
*MOW didn't travel much so the horses he beat where not even in the same class as him so it was easy to beat them. Nobody takes anything away from MOW for not being a TC winner because he should of been and probably would have.
*MOW was a better sire but Secretariat did have good runner's beside's the only 2 that manowar101 posted. Infact like MOW's bloodline's he still is a very influencal sire today. Some of his broodmare son's are top stallion's and runner's today! A.P Indy, Storm Cat to name a few.
One thing is true it impossible to compare two horses from two different half's of the 20th century! :)
Theses are total opinion's I don't wish to start an argument with any one!
that track kept geting faster and faster has time went on todays tracks are up to 1 second faster for each furlong and if what i read is correct that is how much horses beat his record by and the fact that mow was held back,were iron shoes and carring twice as much weight when man o war did these thing is amazing and how come horeses didn`t want to face man o war but had no problem facing sec.
how come horses didn`t want to face man o war but had no problem facing sec.
^^
Do you know that personally???? NO. We are all entitled to our opionions.. and I think Sec is better than MOW. Did you ever read about any famous horses beside Sir Barton that MOW raced against who won big races? Now Secretariat raced an won against many great classic winner's as easy as that.. Onion, Sham, Riva Ridge the 72" Belmont and Derby winner and his stable mate. (Many think he should have been a Triple Crown Winner.)
One thing is for sure. They were both easily No. 1's for their half of the century.
Though Citation, Count Fleet, War Admiral in the 30's & 40's. Seattle Slew, Ruffian, Kelso horses from 60's and 70's come to mind also as great horses.
Sure, but I still think that Sec's competition was much tougher than MOW. That horse was in a class by himself so it was easy for him to win he didn't race horses as good as Sec did easy as that.. Comprenda? Gracias
This is a green "book worm" inexpert opinion as usual for Afleet Alex. Who has not been to Secretariat`s races and who has not see MOW race. Yuk to suck silliness
un less u are in your late 80s there is no way anyone could see mow cause me granddad that was in ww2 was born in 1926(i think or somewere around it)and he turned eighty in june but acts and looks like he is 60 and he as been around horses for a long time.
He is calling you that because I think it means you base your opinion on reading book's and watching tapes. Not living and seeing things in life. Like he did with many horses since he said he's bein following race from I believe the 50's? correct me if i'm wrong
well it is a little hard to se famous horses race that retied before the late 190`s since i was born in 1992 and did really get in to horse racing til i was 8 or 9 after i saw the black stallion
A person of 13 is never green. You are the next generation. Do well. An older man like AA should have learned more. yOu are better informed at 13 than I was at that age.
Keep learning that is great
I'm young too only 15! Hopefully some day we can be telling some snot nosed kid about how it was in the day. lol wow I can see it now! I think Afleet Alex has some good points as do you! Especially about Seattle Slew! I definitly agree with you on that! SS was way better than Affirmed no doubt! Which we both pointed out!
that would be funny and cool yea i can tell my kids of the horse of our day and past our day when i am finished with them they will be opsesed with mow
Riddle made home movies of all MOW races and he showed them at his home in Saratoga. Open house for turf and things. After a days races Riddle invited horsemen and all to this home for tea. And would show MOW races. That home is still there and is 4 blocks from my home. I grew up with older folks who saw Riddles films. The catchword in Saratoga was "Ask Sammy" how good MOW was He will show you.
Riddles and Jeffords shared that home and they could not get enough of Saratoga. That is why MOW did not travel much. I do not blame Riddle. In 50 years I have not had enough of Saratoga.
Print and book media are great. Good way to learn.
But living it betting it seeing it as it happened is a lot more FUN.
I have been doing it since 1953. I recall the Yankess won a fifth straight World Series that year and were called The NAtive Dancer of 1953 baseball season
i find it boring to wath baseball but my dad said it is fun to play but now that i love horsracing i am trying to see as many famous races and horses a possable i did see funnycide and did see the lousisana derby but man that thing get packed.
Absolutly! nothing compares to an experience as magical as a grade one race. Even watching re-run's isn't the same. I'm still waiting to witness my first Derby..
Does anyone agree with me that Spectacular Bid was better than both Affirmed and Seattle Slew? I know Bid lost head to head with Affirmed, but that was the last race he lost. Mr Shoemaker himself once said "bid is about as good as any horse you're gonna see". Anyone agree with me?
Spectacular Bid never won any race longer than 1 1/4 mi. He lost the Belmont (granted, due to injury and a poor ride from Ronnie Franklin), and Affirmed beat him decisively in the JCGC at 1 1/2mi. The next year he was scratched from the Gold Cup in suspicious, or at least controversial, circumstances.
At 1 1/4 mi. or less, Bid was certainly in the same class as Seattle Slew and Affirmed, perhaps even faster - especially if we compare them all as 4-year-olds. However, the other two were superior stayers. Bid's failure to win at 1 1/2 miles, which is still the test of a champion regardless of what anybody else says, still places him below the others, in my opinion.
A great horse he was indeed. Actually his name was to have been Seven No Trump as his owner was an avid bridge player. The higest bid you can make in bridge is seven no trump, thus a Spectular Bid.
Seattle Slew was the best "In your face horse" in history.
Affirmed`s only blemish was to have to have run against Seattle Slew. Affirmed was Grand Slam winner (Travers albiet dq`d.).
Affirmed beat The Bid convincingly!
Affirmed would be rated higher if he were not around with SS.
Only MOW in the Dwyer has run face to face with a star horse for more than 1 1/8. Slew ran eye to eye for 1 1/2 against TWO fresh horses!!
Exceller was well rested when he ran at Slew. Slew was ready to leave him in the dust at the wire.
Slew beat Exceller two weeks earlier in track record time. When Exceller did not get the benefit of Affirmed`s saddle slip.
SS was better than both Affirmed and Bid yesssssss.
I was at the race when Slew set track record and beat Exceller. Slew was not even breathing hard after that one.
I would have to say Bid was better than Affirmed and Slew, he was more versatile and had way more records (one world record that still stands today), I would have Slew in second, yes he was a tough horse, but couldn't stand being behind others even though I think he would give Bid a run for his money, and I think Affirmed was the least fastest of them all, truth is he only beat Bid by 3/4, when he was a 4 year old to Bid at 3, hardly even comparable, at 4 Bid could beat just about any horse in history at 1 1/4, saving Secretariat, Secretariat was timed going out in 1:57:4 while being pulled up after his Marlboro Cup win. To me I would have to rank Bid just above Slew, with Affirmed farther back.
That one race, Upset would not have beaten him fair and square, Man of war had already beaten him 6 times previous and again afterwards! I blame the jockey!! If he would have lined him up he would have trounced home. Mind you, you have to give it to him, he came second even thought he had a terrible start, now thats some horse! I wish he had been put in for the triple crown, he would have too that easy but I dont understand why they didnt. I know he never raced in Kentucky....LORD KNOWS WHY! Nothing even up to present day would have touched that horse except one and that was British Steeple Chaser Red Rum,(I know they are different racing types but this horse could shift, only ever 3 time Grand national winner, stride was 27 feet to Man o wars 28) now he would have give him a run for his money, it would have been a tight race but I still sway to Man O war for the winner!(Im english too so have seen some great racers in my time so far, Not one as good as Red but seen a real close second!
To say a 4 yr old should beat a 3 yr old of "equal ability" is a SUCKERS bet.
To count only the finish of a race is foolhardy at best. Bid and Affirmed ran 1 1/2 miles that day. 1978 JCGC. From right out of the gate Affirmed took command. Bid could not keep up with him. Affirmed took a lenght and a half lead out of the gate and held it to the quarter pole. Every time Bid moved on him, Affirmed pulled away with authority. To the amazement of Chick Andersen who kept repeating 'Bid can get no closer to Affirmed.' There should be only a half lenght difference at the first 6 furlongs between a 3 and 4 yr old. The difference of 1 1/2 lenghts shows it was not the difference in age. Many 4 yr olds are slower than when they were 3 because of infirmities and other nagging injuries that go with another year of racing. Affirmed was better. Period
It is the manner in which times are set that count . Not raw final times alone. Buddy Delp thought Bid would beat Affirmed despite the "AGE DIFFERENCE"
Bid lost and I was happy for Laz Barrera that day for he took so much abuse about Affirmed. Final times mean little. Affirmed was a very gifted athlete.
And saying one horse was better than another based on raw final times alone is another SUCKER!S BET A top speed horse loses 75% of the time.
Bid was way more horse than Affirmed he set 8 track records, Affirmed couldn't do that if he wanted to and when Affirmed ran with Alydar he was going all out, Bid only half the time was actually trying, and Bid had a rougher life than Affirmed, remember he had the pin in his foot before the Belmont and still ran third if that happened to Affirmed I dought he could run in the money. Point is Spectacular Bid was a better horse and was a better 4 year old then Affirmed was at 4, he was also a better 3 year old than Affirmed at 3, he had a much tighter racing schedule and almost always came up on top, were as Affirmed had a five race losing streak, Bid never did that, he was a champ everytime he ran and there is only one horse that could run with him at a 1 1/4 thats Secretariat. Yes Affirmed was a gifted athlete but not as gifted as the Bid. Affirmed had a whole year of growth and experience aganist the Bid and only won by 3/4 length with Bid gaining, Affirmed was not pulling away. Also, final times do count, a horse might run a 1:32 mile in a 1 1/8 race and come back in 1:52, while in a drive, which is hardly great, point is all times during a race count especailly the final time, it shows how far a horse can run, on the lead or in back as long as he is the one at the finish who brings back the great time. This is my opinion, so don't go ranting and raving and saying that your right, because alot of the people don't agree with you or me, we'll never find out who was the better horse under the same circumstances, point is we all have our own opinions and that is what makes this sport great, finding out everyone's likes and dislikes about the game, and I respect you for that, you always back up who you like just how I back up who I like, that is a thing of pride and thats why I respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them such as on this topic. Just letting you remember this is my opinion and I don't want to offend anyone.
Affirmed beat him. And Trip handicapping is more important than times. How was the time set? When a pace gets 3/5 faster or 3/5 slower than normal for the horse it has a drastic eccect on final times. And when a horse gets in the face of another it takes down final times big time. IF Bid were the "Greatest of all times" he would have beaten Affirmed. No excuses!!!/ Oct in a 3 yr old is damn close to a 4 yr old. Is no big deal for a 3 yr old to beat older horses. Bid could not do it. I expected Affirmed to win that day and it was a joy to cash that ticket.
Laz Barrera took a lot of heat when he refused to run Affirmed in The Marlboro Cup against Bid because he did not want to give Bid 9 pounds. It was great satisfaction to beat Bid.
Early times tell as much as later. Affirmed controlled the pace and if they went around the track twice Bid would not have caught him. The horse who can prompt the pace and still hold off late challanges is the BETTER HORSE.
Dosen`t matter how many records BID set. When he faced the master Affirmed he lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If Bid had to run eye to eye with Slew he would have seriously slower final times. He could not prompt the pace with Affirmed ans Slew was Better than that. Times are not the be all and end all. Trip and pace mix are more important.
You make some excellent points, but I think you are not giving Bid his due. He was definately the best 4 yr old of the three, and arent you forgeting that Affirmed lost three races in a row, getting beat convincingly by Slew twice, and DQ 'd in the Travers? , didnt Slew get beat badly when he went out west, while Bid only ran 1.57 at Santa Anita? i think you have to take the full career into account, and Bid had a tremendous overall record, while setting many records.
throughout history of racing world wide, everyone has their opinion of the greatest race horses. Personally I think Affirmed was better and Seattle Slew just beat ahead by a nose. Though a good horse, I disagree Im afraid, but he was a good horse.
At the cashiers window there was no DEBATE! The track paid off on AFFIRMED not Spectular Bid? Seattle Slew was the best cracker in history. A nose win?
The press had to po po SS for he won the TC with a better record than SEC? SEC was NOT undefeated.
Yes, debatable, as I said, everyone has their own opinion of the greatest race horses, not debatable who won or who didnt. People dont seem to get it.., not only do you look at the track record, but you look at the breeding record.. how may good progeny came from that particular horse, Man o War never won the triple crown yet sire two triple crown winners. People have their own opinions and an argument doesnt have to errupt over what you think personally, look at the overall of a horse, the pedigree, the progeny, winnings and losses. Yes the bookies payed out for Affirmed, Seattle Slew was a good horse and my opinion was not the best cracker in history. A good horse may not win on the track but produce some spectacular babies that go on to win the worlds best races; Triple crow, Grand national, Gold cup, ascot, and the list goes on. This also puts the unsuccessful racer a great horse by what he or she produces.
I'm intersted to know who was the 2nd Triple Crown Winner MOW sired????? That's not possible..Though his bloodlines show in other great horses he never sired 2.
Okay he sired one sorry, War Admiral, and he also sired Battleship who went on to win a five mile steeple chase in Aintree liverpool called the Grand National, thats what i got confused with.
I have to agree with MOW Lover! There is no way that Affirmed was ever better than Seattle Slew..While both horses where speed horses. Seattle Slew had way more speed than Affirmed. He Won 1978 Marlboro Cup H. (G1) (3&up at 1 1/8 miles) at Belmont Park, defeating champion Affirmed by 3 lengths in a time of 1:45 4/5. Given he was a year older than Affirmed at the time and more mature. He certainly did more as a two year old and three year than Affirmed ever did. SS was undefeated through 9 starts. He would have been in 10 if his owner's had given him a well rested time off instead of sending him to California.
By cracker I mean to run all out with a top horse in your face as SS did with Affirmed then with no breather take on a fresh Exceller and nearly run him into defeat for 1 1/2 miles of pressure running. 6 fl time was 1;09 +. No horse in history has run eye to eye 1 1/2 miles with two fresh horses (one after the other faded) who were at peak condition and be inches off at the wire and if let out to 2 miles SS would have won handily.
Tommy Trotter, the New York Racing Handicapper assigned nine pounds more to Affirmed than The Bid for the Marlboro Cup. Mr. Trotter thought Affirmed was better for a weight for age difference would have been only five pounds.
Laz Barrera refused to run Affirmed if he had to give nine pounds to the Bid.
Grover Delp was bragging after the Marlboro Cup “I would have beaten him if he ran. I can’t beat him if he stays in the barn,”
Handicapping a race is a whole different ballgame from voting a horse into the Hall Of Fame. Delp bragged further that if Bid had been around a year earlier Affirmed and Alydar would have finished 5 lengths behind the Bid in the Triple Crown Series.
This antagonized many horsemen including the people connected with Affirmed and Alydar. Alydar`s jockey shot back at Delp “You got that wrong Bid would be 5 lengths back of us.”
Bid reminds me of “Championship Ball Teams” like Seattle Mariners in 2001 who won 116 games and lost the Championship Series.
Bid did great when allowed to have his own way and could control the speed in a race. When he faced a star like Affirmed he could not handle it. He lost the Championship Game Period!
“I do hundreds of condylar fractures and you rarely see something like this happen."
Those where the word's of Patricia Hogan yesterday after Afleet Alex arrived at Gulfstream Park. The 3 year old colt has been retired after a new injury was found! It would take 6-8 months for this to heal.
This is very dishearting! I myself became very attached to this horses as did many others..... He will be sorely missed next year. He was only begining to show his stuff and now he won't be able to become a true champion....:(
That is Upset beating MOW in the 1919 Sanford. This site too dosen't mention the collision coming shorthly after the start.
MOW was almost turned the wrong way at the start and once MOW got straight he ran into and almost over two maidens, who did not know how to get out of his way. MOW had to be pulled up a second time and squared away again and lost many lenghts.
MOW was already favorably compared with Colin and it is regretted by many horsemen that the son of Fair Play was permitted to be beaten when he so clearly outclasses his field.
In the records It will lay as a mark against MOW.
You get a grip kid!!! By missing thaat collision you miss trhe whole point.
John Hervey interviewed Riddle and the jockey after the race.
Johnny Loftus was asleep at the start and by losing the many lengths after that collision Loftus felt he had to save ground to give MOW a chance. That is why MOW was caught in the pocket so often. Without that collision MOW is closer to the lead and Johnny Loftus would have just run MOW at the center of the track and go after Upset. MOW would have won easily without that collision. But it has been lost in history for the chart caller did not include in in the offical result chart. YOou get a grip kid. You are assessing MOW without the full facts.
ia m really sick and tied of u acting like u know it all andthink its your way or the hightway
and just cuase i am a kid doesn`t mean anything i know just has much about man o war any a lot more as u do ok
I can see the green inexpert evaluation in a few posters here. I have been in and around it for 50 yrs. And many of my friends who lived through it with me have seen the posts here and agreed with me. No sub
for experience!!!!
i will tell u how i pick one and most of the time it works.
I look how the horse walks how big or small its feet are.I see how muscular it is.I see how long the legs are and how long its body is.Then i look and see how much courgae it has a the only way to do that is to look in the horses eyes,now not everyone can do this ok. because U can have a horse with blinding speed,stamia for days,but if it has no want to run or no courge to win it is worth noting.U can belive it or not
but just cuase of my age doesn`t mean i don`t knoe notin about horse racing and horses.
and from the end of November-to-the end of March me and my family try to go 3 times a year.
SOUNDS SUCKERISH TOO NOW! I LIVE NEAR THE FASIG TITTON SALES IN SARATOGA AND EVERY YEAR MILLIONS ARE SPENT ON YEARLINGS GOOD LOOKS AND MOST CANT RUN A LICK. EXPERTS ARE WRONG ALL TOO OFTEN BY LOOKIN IN A HORSES EYES.
i said not everyone can do it just look at seabiscuit no one saw what he could do but smith and red pollard ok
u are the one that started this ok.You start every thing on this bord cuase they dont see it the way do or cause they made a mistake and how do i sound suckerish ok and watch u will se me on top of the racing world cause i am goin to own and train race horses ok so u are the one how needs to get the chip off his shoulder
The best way to pick a horse is to read its form. The basic conformation of a horse says nothing about its speed.. look at Sea biscuit.. inbred, very bad conformation faults yet still a legend. Im a trainer and you can not tell a horses courage by its eyes, believe me, I have worked in The National Stud in Newmarket England, the worlds biggest racing stud, and they have to have HEART, the most excitable horse ready to go often ends up the loser because they tire themselves by being wound up. I see where your coming from, but do read the form. Ive jockeyed several times, great fun, but the more collected the horse, the better chance of retaining the energy, which in turn gives you more stamina and a better chance of winning. The size of the feet is irrelavent, the condition of them is more important. I totally agree that if a horse does not have the will to win.. it wont. Thats when you retire to stud or onto another riding disciplin. Dont worry about being wound up by other posters on this site, you may be young but you are also learning and have some knowledge already, keep on learning, you are correct in a further post that age has nothing to do with your knowledge, I have been in horses over 30 years and I am still learning, you never stop, and dont be discouraged by people who are rude and silly enough to argue. If you would like to correspond and learn more about the racing industry I would be more than willing to help, respond with your answer, I will be more than happy to help.
Please calm down people. I know how easy it is for everyone to get caught up in the horse racing talk and who knows what, but PLEASE control yourselves and hold your temper, I don’t want to have to delete posts on this board (though it wouldn’t be the first time, just to keep the peace) so please just agree to disagree and go onto another topic.
He is only a kid of 12 lol. And the other guy is just reading it in books 30 YEARS AFTER it happened. Without having made bets on that particular race on the day it happened It would give a poor perspective on what really happened that day. Do not take it to heart. I am interested only in winning a bet TODAY. Not in who was the best of all times. I do not read books about past great horses and I only know from trying to win a bet on them the day they raced. History is a dull subject and who cares who was best. That dosen`t put a winning ticket in your pocket.
Horse racing would not exsist without betting interests. It is gambling not a spectator sport.
Your attitude is way out of hand MOW Lover, I don't read books to find my info, I have been in racing for many many many many years I have told you that, who knows if your telling the truth, for all we know your just a little 12 year old kid too, so don't go making false statements MOW Lover.
My impression! Even if you were at Saratoga`s openning in 1863 You have missed key
points of horse racing and its history. And you can`t have been close to NY horse racing in the 1960 and 70s or if you were you did not pick up on what was happenning. Being there dosen`t make you an expert.
i am a 13 year old GIRL and i agree with u afleet alex i am sick and tired of her thinkin she is all that and a six pack cause she has been around horse racing ok cause what just cause she was there does not make her an expert
i don`t even think she knows what it means to be an expert all she does is start stuff because the don`t see it her way or because they are young and becuase they make a mistake
and u know what MOW lover u want to email me do it cuase i am not fighten here anymore cuase beth asked use to stop.
I never thought of this site as FEAR. The longer you work at something the better you learn it. You do sound off the wall in your opinions about horses. So does Afleet Alex! The best handicappers can`t win at betting horses. I made a living in horse racing. I know a good handicapper when I hear one. Weather I agree with the handicapper or not I respect it as every handicapper is wrong about %80 of the time. That is horse racing.
there is one girl who thinks that ruffain and sec can make man o war look like a nag and that he is overrated i read that when i was look at a horse racin book at barns and noble
i am not off the wall ok i have good opinion
i think mow will make them look like nags
I am WRONG 80 percent of the time
I admit it lol I NEVER DENIED IT!!!
But I know a handicapping approach that is based on sound logic when I see one. The problem is THE BEST APPROACH IS WRONG 8 in 10 times.
I am WRONG 80 percent of the time
I admit it lol I NEVER DENIED IT!!!
But I know a handicapping approach that is based on sound logic when I see one. The problem is THE BEST APPROACH IS WRONG 8 in 10 times.
all i did was but a post with a website for some people who want to read it ok but no u had to start something ok
stop always telling people there opionon is wrong ok i am not telling u your opion is wrong
Hall of Fame jockey Gary Stevens, to join TVG network.
Hall of Fame jockey Gary Stevens announced his retirement from riding Friday, but will not be leaving the sport. In a Churchill Downs press conference, Stevens said he would be joining the Television Games Network (TVG) as a racing analyst. Stevens will ride his last two races Saturday, when he has mounts on Sabatini in the Golden Rod Stakes and Louvre Royale in the 12th and final race on the Churchill card. He has one mount, on Purim in the Clark Handicap, Friday.
"Over the years it's been a wonderful career, but it's time to hang it up," Stevens noted. "I've thought about it at great length. I'm happy I can walk away in one piece. There are several reasons to do this now. Certainly the opportunities to work in television; making weight has been hard for the past four or five years; and my knees, although not the main issue, are a factor."
The 42-year-old native of Idaho recently captured his 5,000th victory despite riding the past several years with chronic knee problems which caused him to announce his retirement in 1999. After brief stints as an assistant trainer and jockey agent, Stevens felt his knees had heeled sufficiently to begin riding again. He shifted his tack from California to Churchill Down earlier this year.
Stevens said his biggest moment in the saddle was winning his first Kentucky Derby with Winning Colors. "Passing those twin spires, that was it," Stevens said, choking back emotion. He mentioned Rock Hard Ten, Point Given, Thunder Gulch, Silver Charm, Serena's Song, Silverbulletday, and Winning Colors as the best horses he's been on.
"The only thing that would have kept me going next year would have been Rock Hard Ten," Stevens said. "But when (owner) Ernie Moody called me last week and said the horse was being retired, I knew that was it for me."
Stevens is one of the most articulate riders in the history of the sport, which will serve him well when he begins at TVG in January with what he said was a mulit-year contract. "This is exciting because I'll be able to attend the biggest events in racing," Stevens said. He portrayed jockey George Woolf in the popular 2003 film "Seabiscuit," and garnered excellent reviews for his acting.
Stevens won the Kentucky Derby (gr. I) three times in his career, aboard Winning Colors, Thunder Gulch, and Silver Charm. He added two Preakness Stakes (gr. I) victories, three Belmont Stakes (gr. I), eight Breeders' Cup wins, and a record nine runnings of grade I Santa Anita Derbys. His mounts over a 26-year career earned more than $221 million. Stevens was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1997.
"I couldn't be more excited about joining TVG," Stevens said. "I'm not retiring from racing, just from riding, and I look forward to giving TVG viewers an insider's look at what takes place on the racetrack." Stevens hinted that he might also be working for a "major network" in the future, but did not elaborate.
Stevens said his experience from 1999, when he battled depression after retiring, would help him this time around. "I didn't know what I was going to pursue then, so this is a better situation."
Stevens said he'd like to be remembered for his competitive spirit, and for being a consistent, patient, and prepared rider.
"We are excited to have Gary join TVG's roster," said TVG general manager David Nathanson. "As he proved in 'Seabiscuit,' he's comfortable in frnt of the camera and we're looking forward to the insight and expertise he can offer our viewers."
The Exceller Fund received a donation of a rare original CC Cook print of Man o'War as a young stallion, conformation pose. I checked with the Keeneland Library, and this is not one of the photos that they purchased from CC Cook's estate, so they have no problem with The Exceller Fund using it to raise funds for Thoroughbred rescue.
Please take a look at this photo as I think it is one that every MOW fan should have! The 8x10 is $35 plus $1.50 for shipping. I can also get reprints of this photo in 11 x 14, 16 x 20, and 20 x 30 sizes, with the larger the size having a higher price.
The actual print is much more detailed and the contrast is much better than what you see on The Exceller Fund OnLine store, and the text is not on the actual print. I did a lesser quality resolution and added the test for the online image to cut down on net-image piracy.
Read the description of the print in the OnLine store - I think the story behind this print is fascinating.
Again - it will make a great Christmas/Hannakah/Kwanzaa gift for you or any MOW fan you know! And the proceeds help The Exceller Fund rescue Thoroughbreds from being sent to the slaughterhouse. A number of the horses we have rescued carry the blood of MOW.
If you are interested, you can order the MOW print on the OnLine Exceller Fund store, or you can send an e-mail to me to inquire how to purchase using check or PayPal.
Thank you for supporting the Exceller Fund and its mission to "Provide a Future Beyond the Finish Line." http://www.excellerfund.org
Proceeds from this magnificent Man o' War photo benefit The Exceller Fund and our work to rescue Thoroughbreds from being sent to slaughter. The recent bill approved by Congress and signed by the President doesn't take effect until March of next year. In the meantime, the dealers and "kill" buyers are redoubling their efforts to "process" as many horses as possible.
Thoroughbreds that can no longer compete on the track, or broodmares no longer considered valuable for breeding are especially vulnerable.
I remember hearing some years ago, after the first race between two TC Winners, that Affirmed was better than Slew, which I think is totally false, I think Slew is by far a better horse, what are your takes on this.
Slew did win the race, that is why I find it mind boggling someone thought Affirmed the better of the two, I think Slew was a better horse both years he raced as compared to Affirmed, he beat Affirmed twice, but once Affirmed's saddle cloth slipped so it wasn't really fair, still I think Slew was better.
Slew actually got second to Exceller by a nose in their second meeting of Slew and Affirmed, the race between Exceller and Slew was one of the greatest ever, battling nose to nose to the wire, Slew showing his greatness in display, even though he lost he was better.
The fact that Affirmed`s saddle slipped proved he could not run eye to eye with SS in 1:09+ and have anything left. SS was much the better cracker.
Shoemaker on Exceller said Exceller was spent at the finish.
Codero said SS was getting his second wind and passed Exceller right after the finish. Had the JCGC remained at 2 miles Slew would have pulled away by daylight. The race had been shortened to 1 1/2 miles only 3 years earlier.
Many a trainer and horseman said SS made the finest effort of any horse at any time that day. Consider the speed duel with the great Affirmed and no breather when Exceller ran on him.
Consider DR Fager in 1:09+ 1967 Woodward Sts and fading badly to lose by 10 in 1 1/4 miles. The longer the eye to eye contact the worse it is for those horses involved. ss WENT 1 1/2 MILES WITH A MUCH BETTER RABBIT THAN HEDEVAR and was inches from winning.
SS was a much better cracker than DR Fager. This race proved it to me that day.
SS broke through the starting gate before the start of the race. That beats 99% of horses, Even that energy saved would have made him the winner.
Are you saying Slew was better than the legendary Dr Fager? Didn't Dr Fager have to deal with two speed horses in addition to racing Buckpasser and Demascus in that great race?
Dr Fager was ten lengths out of it at the end. That is the point. Slew was only inches away and it was 1 1/2 miles not 1 1/4. And Great Power the other rabbit that day never got near Dr Fager and Hedevar. And Slew never got a breather as he was eye to eye with either Affirmed of Exceller.
Affirmed was a faster horse than Hedevar and gave more pressure than Hedevar.
Slew did more than Dr Fager. Was glaringly obvious.
That race has stuck in my mind for 28 yrs now. I was sitting near the finish line and could hear the jockeys yelling so loud. They wanted to scare SS. Damn it. And it worked. He compsosed himself and took to his business of running. He looked so regal in post parade and it was a thrill for me whenever SS walked near me. His chomping at the bit, his side step dance, his million dollar look as he did the "war dance." I remember the disappointment when SS lost and how angry I was at the bad luck in the race.
One saving grace I recall is the race took place during a rain delay across town as the Yankees and Dodgers were playing game 4 in the 1978 World Series so all focused on the Race not baseball.
i agree to i think slew is way better
but mow lover it seems u have been to every famous race i mean u saw sec ans seattle slew and a bunch others do u copy your self so u can be at all the races
Yes all these races happened at NYRA tracks on Saturdays when I was off work I made a point to go to them all. They happened over many years. Yes I was at all NYRA big races on weekends
It was my business to go. BUB
I agree with you Big TIME this time. You have brought back a cherished memory for me. Seattle Slew never got to Saratoga untill he was 4 yrs old. Affirmed ran during that meet too. Affirmed had a helluva time catching Sensitive Prince( A Cheap spped horse)at Spa that August. I thought no way can Affirmed catch SS If they meet later in the year. But SS had a disease which almost killed him at the end of his 3rd year. Horsemen had written SS off as a has been. Affirmed was the favorite when he met SS the first time. I recall Chic Anderson`s call at the finish of the Marlboro Cup "Nearing the wire it is going to be Seattle Slew. He pulls off the big one." You got this post right.
me and my family got o the fairgrounds a least 3 times a year but this year because of hurricanes it is colosed but like 2 years go i saw funny cide and some other horses in the 2003 triple crown it was so cool he came in 3rd but 2 horses were battleing to win it was so cool
I got this email about an old 1920 Man O'War pic winning the Dwayer Stakes. This is a copy of the email (minus the email addrss) if any of y'all are interested. If you want to talk to her about the pic email me and I'll give you her email address.
Beth Chaisson
--Email Message--
i reseived a pix. of mof w when my brother passed away,, it was when he won the 1920;s dwyer stakes.
it is by george ford morrisson.. an antique dealer advised me that it was a water color, and probably worth $350.00 to $400.00. i am interested in selling it. i can e mail a dig. pix , if you know of any horse lover that may be interested..
Hi to all: Afleet Alex is up for nomination for Sportsman of the Year by Sports Illustrated, Dec. 9th, the finals. He has done so much for racing this year and Pediatric Cancer Research. I work at Hasbro Children's Hospital and a group of us went to the Belmont race. We saw little kids that were ill cheer on this great horse. Many consider him to be a very fast horse, one who perseveres, and what a great incentive to these kids, not to mention, us, the "big kids". I will never forget those races and how he has influenced a sport. What a great Sportsman. His jockey received "Jockey of the Year, ESPN" Afleet Alex deserves the Sports Illustrated award. C'mon everyone get online to www.SI.com and vote your hearts out for the horse that races with his heart. "Go Alex, For The Kids !"
I love horses and I would love to have someone to talk to through email.
I'm sorry if this isn't what this site is about but if this is please someone horsey email me I'd love to have a email pal!!!!!!
Thanks a heap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rock Hard Ten, a leading candidate for horse of the year honors before being scratched from last month's Breeders' Cup Classic, was retired Friday after an examination detected worn cartilage in his left front foot.
Hall of Fame jockey Gary Stevens called Rock Hard Ten the best horse he's ever ridden.
Rock Hard Ten, a 4-year-old colt, completed his career with seven wins in 11 starts and earnings of $1,870,380. He was unbeaten in three races this year, and won four major stakes races after Richard Mandella became his trainer, including the $1 million Santa Anita Handicap last March.
"You haven't seen the best of him," Stevens said after that race. But Rock Hard Ten raced only one more time, winning the $484,000 Goodwood Handicap at Santa Anita on Oct. 1.
Rock Hard Ten figured as one! of the favorites in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Belmont Park, but was scratched from the $4.7 million race because of a bruised right front foot.
Rock Hard Ten bruised his left foot about a week earlier. Mandella didn't believe that injury was serious at the time.
"After his undefeated 4-year-old campaign, we are saddened by this decision, but felt it was best to retire him at this point," Mandella said. "Given the tremendous interest in him as a stallion prospect, we hope his career at stud will be as great as his racing one was."
Mandella said the problem was discovered Thursday in one of Rock Hard Ten's sesamoid bones, which are located above and at the back of the fetlock joint, similar to a knuckle in humans.
"We went in with an arthroscope. The cartilage had worn off pretty good about the size of a dime," he said. "It's such an important part to a race horse right there. We thought best to advise retirement."
Mandella said Rock Hard Ten's career was "barely tapped."
"He was a great horse in the making. He'd already proven enough," the trainer said. "He did prove an awful lot. It would be a shame for him to come back at 75 percent."
The retirement was announced in a release issued by owner Ernest Moody of Las Vegas.
"He showed the world his style and class by beating any and all who showed up to race against him this year," Moody said.
"He is the best horse I ever sat on," Stevens said in the release. "He is the kind of horse that could win Grade 1 stakes races at both sprint and classic distances. Not too many other horses in the history of racing have ever done that."
According to the release, the ownership is evaluating where Rock Hard Ten will stand at stud.
Rock Hard Ten was disqualified from second to third in the Santa Anita Derby in 2004, then didn't qualify for the Kentucky Der! by because he hadn't won enough money. His DQ in California kept him below the earnings threshold for Kentucky.
By the end of the year, the owners switched trainers, replacing Jason Orman with the high-profile Mandella.
Rock Hard Ten responded with victories in the Malibu Stakes in December 2004 and the Strub Stakes last February before winning the Santa Anita Handicap.
u know how man o war has a street named after him an lots of merchindise on him and even a golf corse named after him and race.will secreteirt has merchandise but no street or golf course named after him or a race
i was just wonderin if sec was so great why don`t they have all that named after him.
andif this starts some arggument i am srry i was just wonderin
i know this is notabout what i posted but i herd this and i belivve it
there are 11 triple crown winners but if man o war was in the kentucky derby there would be 12 and if alydar and affermid were born a year apart there would be 13 triple crown winners
Secretariat was honored with his own stakes race just a year later from his TC victory at Arlington Park..It wasn't until the 1950's that MOW was honored with his own race..
That's not nessicarly true do we really know if Alydar would have won the races another year? MOW probably should have won the Triple Crown but MOW's owner was Anti-Kentucky at the time he thought the west was unsettled.
All TC winners except Sir Barton in 1919 and Assault in 1946 were heavy Winter Book Favorites to win the Ky Derby.
Secretariat was the lowest odds in The Winter Book at 1 to 1 in Derby and 5 to 2 for TC.
First Samurai and Stevie Wonderboy are listed at 15 and 10 to 1 in Future Books around America. Bookmakers know their business and there is not a standout for next year`s TC.
At some point in the future some horse will win the TC, I am sure.
If that is the Jockey you mean it was in the Travers in 1920.
Clarence Kummer had fallen off a horse at Aqueduct and was grounded by doctors. Earle Sande had gone to Canada to ride a few days earlier so when Andy Schuttinger became available Riddle was glad to get him.
You're a bit mixed up there, you're getting Man O'War mixed up with his Triple Crown winning son War Admiral, who's regular jockey was Charles Kurtsinger.
I'm glad to know that everyone is so passionate about horse racing, but please, how about we just accept the fact that everyone has their own opinion about these debates and lets just drop it okay? This is for BOTH debate strings on this board, I’m okay with talk about horse racing even if both sides disagree, as long as everyone can handle themselves in a calm and respectful manner to the other person. So how about y’all just agree to disagree on this matter and lets move to something else okay?
this bord was avery good idea and thank u for making it i have learnd a lot of new thing.
the fair grounds in new orleans got hit bad by katrina me and my family would go there but it will not be open this season and it is the 3rd oldes us race track and it might not open again because they are a fraid they we not be as many people in new orleans so please pray that it reopens i mean the lousisana derby(a major prep race for kentucky derby)will not be raced this year.
I just want to make a quick announcement of the 2005 Holiday Fundraisers for The Exceller Fund.
If you go to our home page at http://www.excellerfund.org you will see a link right underneath the "What's New" Heading on the home page. The link is titled "The Exceller Fund needs YOUR help! Please see our 2005 Holiday Fundraisers!" and takes you to a page that features our 2005 fundraising items.
This will be out 6th Annual Holiday Horses campaign where, for a minimum donation made to The Exceller Fund you can send holiday greetings to someone, or send it to yourself. Details are on the website.
We also have our Rich In Dallas limited edition Certificates available, and we have 2006 calendars - both Wall Calendars and poster-style calendars.
In addition, to that, we have photographs, art prints, hand made items, and the entire assortment of goodies from CafePress.
Please feel free to pass this information along. If you post to some of the many Internet Message Boards, please feel free to make this information available. We need as many people as possible to hear about our Fundraising campaigns.
The Exceller Fund has done an amazing amount with the resources available. We have assisted many other rescue groups with their efforts, and have helped horses in many different states. It is only with your help, and the help from the donations of others, that The Exceller Fund can continue "Providing a Future Beyond the Finish Line."
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/breederscup05/news/story?id=2210179
u can beluve it or not just thought i might what to share this with any Lost In The Fog fans
HEY IM 15 MAN O WAR IS MY SECOND FAVOURITE HORSE OF ALL TIME FIRST IS NORTHERN DANCER HE IN MY EYES IS THE BEST HORSE TO EVER LIVE BUT IM REALLY HAPPY BECAUSE I HAPPEN TO HAVE A DESCENDANT OF MAN O WAR AND IS SHE EVER FAST HER NAME IS AVENUE AND IS A STUNNING RESEMBLANCE TO HIM ITS REDICULOUS! THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS SHE HAS TWO SOCKS ON HER BACK LEGS BUT THE BODY AND THE FACIAL MARKINGS ARE SO IDENTICAL! EVERY TIME I SEE A PICTURE OF MAN O WAR IM LIKE WOW! DO THEY EVER LOOK ALIKE! BUT YAH SO HAVE A ANICE DAY!
Hey, my VCR recentley chewed up my Phar Lap Movie from 1984, and I was wondering do any of you know were I can find a new one, online in the U.S.A. possible on DVD, I went to Amazon but it says it wont be released until Dec 31, 1969, which makes no sense, but if any of you can help me out I will greatly appreciate it.
The Phar Lap movie DVD was released here in Australia a few weeks ago, so it should be available over there in the US in the very near future.
Did you know, the saddle that George Woolf used on Seabiscuit in the 1938 match race against War Admiral was the same kangaroo skin saddle that Billy Elliott used when he rode Phar Lap in the 1932 Agua Caliente Handicap in New Mexico.
Thank you for telling me when it would be available, I also heard that, and I heard the only time he didn't use it was when he fell off in the race he died in if I'm correct. Thanks again.
My Top 25 Greatest Thoroughbred Racehorses of 20th Century and Top 25 Favorites of 20th
by Afleet Alex
My Top 25 Greats of Racing in 20th Century
1. Secretariat
2. Citation
3. Swaps
4. Dr. Fager
5. Spectacular Bid
6. Man o' War
7. Seattle Slew
8. Forego
9. Round Table
10. Buckpasser
11. Damascus
12. Bold Ruler
13. Easy Goer
14. War Admiral
15. Noor
16. Phar Lap
17. Whirlaway
18. Seabiscuit
19. Colin
20. Native Dancer
21. Busher
22. John Henry
23. Cigar
24. Affirmed
25. Alydar
My Top 20 Favorites of Racing in 20th Century
1. Secretariat
2. Dr. Fager
3. Easy Goer
4. Spectacular Bid
5. Citation
6. Foolish Pleasure
7. Swaps
8. War Admiral
9. Seattle Slew
10. Whirlaway
11. Buckpasser
12. Seabiscuit
13. Damascus
14. John Henry
15. Cigar
16. Alydar
17. Alysheba
18. Armed
19. Bold Ruler
20. Lady's Secret
21. Busher
22. Exterminator
23. Man o' War
24. Slew o' Gold
25. Ta Wee
Those are my choices, please wright yours, thanks for reading.
You are not qualified to give a valid opinion of how these horses rate in history. It can not be proved and you are naive enough to think numbers on paper many years after the horses are dead proves something.
You are reading books about it and you do not have the expertise to know that nothing is certain in racing. You are no handicapper.
ok MOW lover everyone has a rite to there opinoin to which on is there favrite. that list i made was not who i think are they greatest race horses thoses are just my favroite ones the ones i like to learn the most about ok so stop being so rude this a mow messege bord but all so a horse racing in genral bord so buz off
I made a mistake on my list
1.man o war
2.cigar
3.native dancer
4.easy goer
5.alydar
6 secreteriet/pahrlap
and how do u know we are not handdecapers(if spelled it wrong srry) and again u have no rite to tell us we can`t state our opinon ok u are not a no it all about horses racing trust me i have read your posts.
Yes I have a right to state my opinion on handicapping.
The comparisons made by Afleet Alex are based on unsound ideas.
The men who saw Ruffian
L Laurin, Laz Barrera, Leroy Jolley, Fr Whitley JR and 100,000 people all understood what Ruffian was all about.
To put her down as nothing but a fluke legend is sickening to a man who lived through it all.
I won`t shut up. He puts down MOW as a fake legend too!
If you have a list of 25 all time greats that is fine with me. It can be whatever you like. It is the disgusting downgrading of MOW and Ruffian that bothers me.
You can`t prove which horse would win in a future race together.
Some fields of horses make obvious choices. Many run deep contention and can`t be handicapped. I never said I know it all.
The stern test of betting with money is a better teacher than reading it years after the fact. You sound like a kid.
Let me know what is wrong with my posts. I am always willing to learn something new or correct an old mistake. Show me where I posted blatant errors about horse racing.
Are you just making baseless claims? I have not read books about it. I just go on memory and it has been 40 yrs since some of it happened.
i love man o war and i like ruffian i have no dout that she is one of the best fillys to walk the earth ok but that his his opion and u can`t just go off on him ok reread your post not qualifid and see way i sad what i sad ok stop jumping peoples gun
ok i am a kid i am 13 ok but i know so much about man o war and other horses it blows my parents ok i know more about horses then my mom and she grew up w/ them ok i had 4 horses put had to sell them(there are not cheap animals to keep )but i get to see them alot
my mom says i can win a debat about horse racing i think it is alsome to see the prettyest animal on earth showing there shere power and speed
the reason i jumped u is because u have no rite to tell him his opion is wrong ok yea mow could kick any of thoses horses butt and so could ruffain but that is his opion ok
Thanks for backing me up manowar101, now MOW LOVER on the other hand, I made my list just to show who I thought was the best, it was a personal opinion, everyone has one, and I wasn't trying to offend you, please don't mock peoples opinions such as mine and manowar101 its just not nice, we have our opinions and you have yours, thanks for reading.
1) Man O' War
2) Secretariat
3) Citation
4) Native Dancer
5) Spectacular Bid
6) Count Fleet
7) Dr Fager
8) Tom Fool
9) Cigar
10)Buckpasser
11)War Admiral
12)Kelso
13)Seattle Slew
14)Affirmed
15)Swaps
16)Forego
17)Exterminater
18)Whirlaway
19)Damascus
20)Bold Ruler
Most underrated horse by far is Spectacular Bid. 9 for 9 as a 4 year old, and would have been a triple crown winner if not for an unfortunate mishap before the Belmont Stakes.
Please give input on my list Thanks
Spectacular Bid is the most underrated horse in history, but I don't think MoW was best ever, but thats ok, I respect your opinion, who knows you may be right, I may be right, or some other people may be right.
Affirmed was the best horse Bid ever faced and he lost to him with no apparent excuses, a disusting oxymoron to say Affirmed was 4 yr old to Bid 3. An all time great would have to win that race. IT is cut and dry, no guess work involved, Affirmed controlled Bid big time and beat him up good. "Bid can get no closer." By the half through the race you could see Affirmed had Bid`s number.
Seattle Slew was a better front runner than Affirmed, And Bid would have had a BIGGER problem with Seattle Slew!! Bid`s world and track records did not help him against Affirmed did they?
Racing history is filled with horses who have never set a track record and then they beat horses with world records. Not about world records. No one knows the outcome of a future horse race and time figures only say how a horse ran in the past, not how he will run in the future.
No opinion poll ever said Bid was the Best ever because there is good evidence Affirmed was better! And logically SS was probably better too.
did u know 1978 triple crown broke 2 records i was the first tc back to back and it was the first one with the same horseto come insecond all three races
I agree time for a Triple Crown Winner. Affirmed also made another record for the Triple Crown the smallest margin to win by just a nose! I have a very good feeling about First Samuari. He looks like he might be the one but it is way to early to tell
Don't worry about the crap other people give you for being young! I'm 15 so I've to been called "naive" In horse racing but I bet I can give some older handicappers a good argument! As you can don't worry bout older handicappers..
I was standing near the finish line in the clubhouse that day and I could read it as a head win for Affirmed. Many believe this the finest race ever run in America.
A Nose a Head Give or take an inch or more.
Mow Lover since you seem to have been to every great race ever did you witness Secretariat's win in the Belmont 73 first hand?
Yes i was at Belmont Pk June 9, 1973 to witness a coronation of a Champion. I went about 100 days a year to the NY tracks or nearby NJ tracks. did it for 50 yrs
I was on the 3rd floor in the reserved seat section right above the finish line. I could see Secretariat break first out of the gate as the starting gate was righ on the finish line. A chill went up my spine as Sec. raced for the lead right away. Sham went with him as each was trying to steal the early lead. They went 1:09 4/5 for 6 furlongs together.
Everyone felt the pace was too fast for 1 1/2 miles and it was so hot too.
I thought another TC failure after that eye to eye 6 fl speed battle. It had killing speed duel written all over it.
Secretariat defied logic in the 7th furlong. He should have been faaltering and showing signs of weakness from his early efforts.
Secretariat was in comtempt of the clock that day. Now Secretariat was moving like a tremendous machine in the words of Chick Anderson and Sec was a 16th of a mile in front turning for home.
People in the grandstands now stood up in unison and like never before or since staring waving the white programs over their heads. All knew this was a Coronation of Super Horse not just another horse race.
Cheering was deafening as Secretariat reached the tote board and the times was being counted by many of the fans. 2:20- 2:21-2:23 2:24 wow!!
Secretariat equalled or broke 4 records that day. 3 at World Class Level.
Equalled 1 1/8 mile World Record
Full second faster than Belmont Track Record for 1 1/4 miles
World Record 1 1/2 miles
Extended after finish with Turcotte standing up and beat 1 5/8 world record by 4 lengths.
The cheers Secretariat got when returning to winners circle was the most charismatic and the most charming appeal for a horse I had ever seen.
All knew they had just seen the single greatest performance any horse has ever run. My favorite moment in 50 years on track was this Belmont Stakes.
I find it hard to top.
I would find that hard to beat ever. I am a young handicapper so I couldn't have seen something so magnificent. Do you think we will see a TC winner any time soon? I know it is too early to tell but what do you think of First Samuari? Stevie Wonderboy? I know the odds are against the Breeder's Cup Juevinile Winner none have ever won a Derby, look at Wilko last year what a flop..who barely beat Afleet Alex the BCJ.
yea on accendent i ythink he is real evry thing u read is real about him i mean the 100 lenght victory
he had a big stride:coverd morse ground then most
he had speed:go farter faster
and if from the barrior he ran and didn`t stop running i can easylt see oh he won by 100 lenghts
i saw thhis pic of i belive native dancer he was crossing th finish line i saw no other horses in the pic just imagen how it would look like to see the over view of that 100 lengh victory by mow
In the website it states MOW lost only two legnths at the start of the Sanford for he was turned sideways when the barrier was raised. Charlie Pettingel had not started a race for years, and he was a finish line judge at the time and he was forced forced into action as a starter when Mars Cassidy got ill.
Shortly after the start MOW ran into and almost over two horses who were green maidens and new to the game. MOW lost many legnths in this contact with the two green maidens. The chart caller did not mention it in the official chart. However most daily newspapers of that day mentioned it. John Hervey stated too, it in his MOW book which was never published.
The jockey(Johnny Loftus) found every pocket on the Saratoga track in which to get MOW blocked afterwards. MOW still had time to win and for the first time showed how great a horse he was.
Everyone believed MOW the true winner of the Sanford.
MOW was already a legend before the Sanford. They were already comparing him to Colin. MOW beat Golden Broom in a workout in company a few days before the Sanford and beat the track record for 3 furlongs by an half second.
just about every great race horse that has ran ib the saratogarace track has lost there at least once
i read this in a book store i was looking for a book on mow and saw this one i was called saratoga loses or something like that and i skemed thought it and in the begining it said this book is about and maybe way just about all great race horses lose aleast once here is there ever ran here>(or something like that it was a long time a go)
These are Ruffian's and Foolish Pleasure's sizes that were taken before their unforgettable match,
Ruffian
Weight: 1,125
Height: 16 2 hh
Girth: 75 1/2 in
Hip to Hock: 43 in
Shoulder to Buttock: 69
Buttock to ground: 57
Shoe size: 5
Foolish Pleasure
Weight:1,061
Height: 15 3 1/4 in
Girth: 73 in
Hip to hock: 41 in
Shoulder to Buttock: 68 in
Buttock to ground: 54
Shoe size: 6
Ruffian is larger on every subject accept shoe size, although I am a huge huge huge fan of Foolish Pleasure and think he is one of the best looking racehorses I have ever seen, Ruffian's size is awesome for a 3 yr old filly and she was a force to be reckoned with, although I still think Foolish Pleasure was a superior animal. We'll just wanted to "size them up" for you guys. Thanks for reading.
Sincerely,
Afleet Alex
*Afleet Alex isn't going to race until 2006, poor little guy, hope he gets better soon.*
After the Spinaway where she ran 1:08 3/5 every one there talented horseman and the public too, said Ruffian would have won the Hopeful by 20 lengths Laz Barrera, Lucien Laurin, Leroy Jolley (Foolish Pleasure Trainer too) All said Ruffian was the better horse. One would have to be a blind bat not to see Ruffian`s superiority!! You do not have the skills to evaluate horses correctly and even if you did see those horses race you could not
evaluate it correctly for it takes a trained eye. Ruffian was 20 legnths better!!!
I pick the Derby winner this year at 50-1, 4 weeks before the race and you say I don't have the trained eye, hardly anyone including the horse's trainer thought Giacomo was gonna win the Derby, right there shows I have a highly talented pick. You are right all of those people did say Ruffian was 20 lenghts better IN THE SPINAWAY not against Foolish Pleasure, LeRoy Jolley always highly touted his horse and I doubt he ever said Ruffian was better than Foolish Pleasure because if he did say it he would never run his horse against her, and guess what he did because he knew his horse had it in him to win. Like I always say you can think Ruffian was better, I think Foolish Pleasure was better, I'm sure almost ever person on this board would agree with YOU because they are probably caught up with the Ruffian hype and Ruffian books, lets see if someone made a book about Foolish Pleasure and his great career how people would think then if the book took out the match race, peole would adore the colt, too many ignorant people blame Foolish Pleasure for Ruffian's death and morons were booing at Foolish Pleasure and calling him terrible things when he was crowned the winner of the match race, this horse gave those race fans a great career he raced at the highest levels at 2,3, and 4 and how do some idiots repay him, they yell and scream at the poor guy who just had a very odd race, he was a very special and talented horse, he won the Derby and got second in the Preakness and Belmont, he also had a perfect Juvenile season, he also beat old champ Forego in a fierce battle to the wire that still remains in my mind today. The point is Foolish Pleasure was a superior animal he pretty much always beat anything that was thrown at him, he was a horse that we will never see the likes of again, I'm not saying he was the greatest ever but he was still "one of a kind", who always did his duty and that was racing for glory. Like I said you have your opinion, I'll have mine.
With the Spinaway in front of their eyes and the Foolish Pleasure win in The Hopeful still fresh Every WISE Horseman said Ruffian would have won the Hopeful against Foolish Pleasure by 20 legnths!!
Laz Barrerra, Lucien Lauren, Carlos Martin, F. Whitley etc al;l said it openly.
Leroy Jolley told the NYRA he would Scratch Foolish Pleasure from the race with Ruffian if Mr Derby did not scratch. Leroy Jolley knew Foolish Pleasure could not run head to head with Ruffian and have anything left at the end.
NYRA published it openly in 1975.
MR Derby did not want to scratch so NYRA paid MR Derby $50,000 to withdraw from the race. I was there bub.
Ruffian went off at 2/5 and Foolish Pleasure 2/1. A landslide victory in the Betting for Ruffian.
Foolish Pleasure could run eye to eye with any horse including Ruffian, I'm sure if he could beat Forego eye to eye he could beat Ruffian because Ruffian was no Forego.
Leroy Jolley said it openly. SCRATCH FOOLISH PLEASURE IF MR DERBY STARTS. Why did NYRA pay $50,000 to Mr Derby to scratch?
Ruffian had been taught to rate her energy and is the one horse in the last 30 yrs that could have equalled (or very close to it) Sec`s Belmont Times. CC Oaks
Ruffian could win without having to set World Records. That is her power and beauty.
Forego, a poor late closer, who is lost from the start against Ruffian! Forego lost to Secretariat in Ky Derby. His connections would not race Forego again against Secretariat.
Ruffian was a faster two yr old than Secretariat was at 2 yrs of age.. Laurin said it and so did 25,000 people who saw her.
You weren`t there when these things happened and you do not have a feel for the mood of those times.
I have not seen any horse run its first five starts as well as Ruff
If she lived to 4 yrs old she would have run 6 fl in 1:05 based on a 20 legnth growth rate normal for any horse for any horse from 2 to 4 yrs old
Ruffian possessed world class speed but he trainer did not want to see her use it. It is the only horse I can remember where the trainer wanted her to run much slower that she was capable of doing. Plenty of horses do not possess World Class Speed.
Ruffian was too fast for her own good. That is why she broke down.
Riva Ridge was the best 4 yr old in training in 1973, yet Ruffian under TWO FURLONG restraint was within 1/5 of a second of Riva Ridge`s BEL. PK track record for 1 1/8 miles. She would have easily have broken Riva Ridge`s record if given her will to run. Jacinto Vasquez had a strong hold on her manes and restrained her vigorously. How the time was set is more important than the time itsself. It is a function of the trip.
Trip handicapping is more important. The time stamps how valid the trip was.
Leroy Jolley would not dare to run against Ruffian if Mr Derby was stilll in the race. Jolley knew Foolish Pleasure would burn out against Ruffian and have nothing left to withold Mr. Derby.
That poster thinks he knows more than Leroy Jolley about Foolish Pleasure. That is a big joke. He is a green buffoon and reading books about those horses can easily give a false impression as to what each horse can do.
My granny and my aunt picked Jiom Dandy at 100 to 1 to win the 1930 Travers against Gallant Fox. I never heard the end of it. 40 years later was still hearing it. What does that prove?
Forego was trained by Fr Whitley at one time A confirmed closed who whould have failed miserably against Ruffian!
Whitley thought so. No way a closer can give the soft lead to a freak like Ruffian, who would have killed Forego and Foolish Pleasure.
You are blindly following some one else`s opinion about those horses by reading books about it.
You do not have the handicapping experience in the school of hard knocks.
May as well ask you about brain surgery?? You never went to medical school either. I insist your opinion is highly invalid.
And the STUPIDEST thing I have heard you say is "to let a top freak like Ruffian loose on the lead and think any horse will catch her." That is why they use rabbits. Any horseman worth his salt would tell you that.
Foolish Pleasure raced eye to eye with Ruffian at the start of the race, Ruffian did take the lead FOR A SHORT TIME, she broke down, even if she wouldn't have broke down, she would have lost, first time she was headed and first time Ruffian was looked in the eye, that spells disaster for racehorses especially front runners, she was bound to lose no matter what, she got the lead because she was headstrong and I guarantee she would have faultered if the race would have gone fine, I'm guessing she would have lost the lead at the head of the stretch were Foolish Pleasure makes his move, he was behind her before she broke down and in perfect striking position he had more kick behind him then she had and thats a fact know way she would have won it, it just boggles my mind that you think she would have won, I'm guessing going into the final furlong, if the race went fine, Foolish Pleasure would have been ahead by 2, and still gaining his lead.
I have seen many a three or four horse race in NY in the last 50 years where it broke down to a "two" horse match race and the horse using "Ussery`s Alley" was the winner most often. The outside horse where Ruffian was.
Whitley ordered Ruffian to lay there with Foolish Pleasure whom she could have left in the dust at any moment.
Ruffian was headed in the Sorority Stakes in NJ.
Charts do not show it. That is why one makes trip notes and relies on visual aids to the race. A result chart is a brief summary of a race and does not say all that happened.
Hot n Nasty headed Ruffian in the Sorority and Ruffian responeded well. A top California Horse ws Hot and Nasty and Ruffian had a splint in her foot taking away all of her edge. She still won and set the stakes record for the Sorority and ran eye to eye with Hot And Nasty for a furlong.
This was her slowest time ever. Hot and Nasty was a great filly and dam as well as she foaled Nasty and Bold who ran third behind Seattle Slew and Affirmed in 1978 Marlboro Cup.
Once again you are in the dark about those horses.
Ruffian only lost 4 legnths off base time when collared while average is 12 legnths. She would have killed Foolish Pleasure, Dr Fager Forego etc all of whom dropped 10 to 15 legnths when running eye to eye.
Whitley worked out Ruffian in company so she would get used to a horse in her face. They trained her to be slower than she was for her own good. Ruffian was a much bettter eye to eye horse than Foolish Pleasure
I know about Affirmed and Seattle Slew, who doesn't in the raicng community? You were right Ruffian could leave Foolish Pleasure in the dust{maybe a lenght in the dust} until about the far turn were Foolish Pleasure would turn on his drive and drill Ruffian into the ground. O yeah also according to you Ruffian was headed in the Spinaway, and you say she was only 4 lengths slower while Dr. Fager, Forego were 12 or what ever you said, we'll guess what if Ruffian actually ran with class horses eye to eye like Foolish Pleasure and Forego did, she would probably be 20 lengths slower, therefore when eye to eye Foolish Pleasure a top class horse with Forego a top class horse they may be 12 lengths slower but if Ruffian ran with Forego or any top class horse she would have been petrified and dropped back so fast its not even funny. Once again Ruffian was headstrong and would waste energy and I doubt she could even go 1:59 in 1 1/4 race let alone getting close to Secretariat's 2:24 in a 1 1/2, I saw her in the CCA and she was in a pretty hard drive to win in a time of 2:27 4/5 is hardly close to Big Red's, {Secretariat was hand ridden with Turcotte standing up in irons, and then went out and beat Swaps record but it wasn't offical, in the race Secretariat beat 3 world records, even though the 1 1/2 one was the only offical one} many say she was only doing what is asked but if whipped I bet she would get mad like front runner Dr. Fager and faulter. There are plenty of filly's who were better than Ruffian including Personal Ensign, Bewitch, Busher, and Lady's Secret all of whom I think were superior to Ruffian. The point is Ruffian was the only special filly who stood out to people had seen since Kinscem and thats were alot of hype comes from, just like Man o' War she is more a Legend then truth. She wasn't versatile like Foolish Pleasure and she couldn't come from behind. A true greastest of the greats is based on the following: Run in all diffenet parts{front, on pace, back, way off}, in the mud, on grass{optional}, on fast tracks, times, and who they beat} Out of ones I named Ruffian could only run in the front and on fast tracks, she never beat a champion like Foolish Pleasure beat Forego, she never raced in deep mud, never even tried grass, and never went incredibly fast, and by incredible I'm talking real good {2:24 in a mile and a half or 1:57 4/5 while being pulled up a whole furlong after a race under the deepest field in horseracing history were Secretariat beat Riva Ridge, Cougar II, Key to the Mint, Kennedy Road, etc}Ruffian never did any of it and therefore can't be the greatest all-time great, only five horses have proven they could do it all and thats Secretariat, Citation, Swaps, Spectacular Bid, and Ghostzapper. {Secretariat the only one who did grass}. Ruffian couldn't beat any of those five and probably couldn't Foolish Pleasure. I've proven my point and backed myself up with facts everytime once again I'll have my opinion you can have yours, then again we could argue about this for hours. We'll thanks for reading.
It was the Sorority that she was headed at Monmouth Park.
And Hot n Nasty was the top California horse who looked Ruffian`s equal on paper.
She was whipped and responded handily! A furlong of eye to eye battle.
Ruffian walked most all of that mile and a half CC Oaks.
"Do not try for time records Puerto Rican" Whitley told Jacinto Vasquez.. The Jockey.
Secretariat was a slower two yr old than Ruffian and a slow beginner. Ruffian was the fastest zero to top speed horse in history.
If Secretariat set 50 world records as a 3 he is lost to Ruffian at 6 fl as a 2yr old. Ruffian was the better 2 year old for sure.
Ruffian had a much better gait, smoother stride, less flexion and would have clobbered Sec when each was a two yr old.
Competition? Make me laugh. Any 1100 lb horse who is breathing in her face at 1:09 for 6 fl is a serious melt down proposition...
I love Secretariat very much and I wont knock him but Ruffian the better 6 fl. horse at two yrs of age. BY FAR>>>>
Look at Dr Fager in Bklyn loss to Damascus.
6 fl in 1:11 + a mile in 1:34 +
6 fl in 1:07 + a mile in 1:32+ (His Arlington World Record)
Note how Dr Fager ran 4 seconds slower yet lost 2 seconds on his mile time and he was all out running with Hedevar
Why with so slow a pace does he get so slow a mile time?
The pace was contested by Hedevar that`s why.It is not even that fast a time yet it took 2 full seconds off Dr Fager`s time?
Dr Fager lost by ten against Damascus in 1967 also again ten legnths off his usual time.
Ruffian in workouts in company only dropped 4 legnths.
Why dosen`t Dr Fager have 9 Stakes records in his first nine starts. He was not as consistently fast as Ruffian. Why is Dr Fager`s best two yr time for 6 fl only 1:10+ BY AUGUST
One million foals since 1973 NOT ONE near 9 stakes records in 9 tries . WHY???? They are not as fast as Ruffian. She caught on like MOW in his first 5 starts.
You are thinking and talking STUPID if you think a two yr old who can throw 1:08 can not burn out any top in history!!
Only took 1;11+ to knock out DR Fager. You are a definite inexpert assessor of horses.
I was talking about a whole racehorse career I never said Sec was a better 2 yr old than Ruffian, I said he was a great horse thats both years included, if we wanna talk about 2 year old champs then lets talk about them. Native Dancer was a spectacular 2 year old he equalled a world record of 1:14 2/5 for 6 and a half furlongs in 1952 is truly extrodinary you can't begrudge him that, he may just have been the best 2 yr old in history. Also Easy Goer was an extrodinary horse at 2 and was said to be the next Secretariat.
I have always loved Native Dancer and he was a great investment in wagering. A 5% gain in two minutes. Bet him in all his races. I was young and thought easy money on a top.
Native Dancer won 4 Stakes
at Saratoga in one month.
That is in my back yard. It was the most Stakes wins by a horse in one month at Saratoga I thought.
But no Luke Blackburn in 1880 won 7 Stakes in 24 days at Saratoga.
You can`t have seen Ruffian. You do not sound old enough.
Greatness is not about running mid pack or on grass or running long races or short races or running on the lead or mid pack.
Ruffian and MOW are not legends of myths. Ruffian would beat any horse at any distance if she were allowed to get loose on the lead. I DONT CARE WHAT TIMES OTHERS HAVE SET. The ability to prompt a fast pace and still have enough to win is what greatness is all about. She had it. You have not proved anything with opinion polls or past running times. You can`t prove it unless they raced together. You are naive to think that.
These greats you mentioned have lost to ordinary horses lol.
A match between Ruffian and another top won`t be about times at all. It will be about who will crack in the others face. I do not care what times the others have IF Ruffian is left loose on the lead it is all over. IF Ruffian is challanged they the other horse will crack in her face. Ruffian can win in much slower time then her opponnent was making.
Are you kidding me Ruffian's times aren't even worthy of being in the top 30 greatest racehorses of all-time let alone number 1, she proved nothing while she raced and beat nothing, she was a horse that didn't show it so she didn't earn it, Secretariat would crack her so bad it's not funny, you are forgetting he wore blinkers and didn't give jack crap who was running next to him, he could run all day and not give a damn, he could do it all, he is a far more versatile and athletic horse then Ruffian could ever be in her wildest dreams.
Secretariat LOST to Prove out because he allowed Prove Out a soft 50 seconds for the first quarter! Prove Out had no great times!!!
Laurin was very angry with Ron Turcotte for allowing that.
I saw it with my own two eyes. And I saw Laurin tell Turcotte "You have to keep the pace honest. Even the Great Secretariat can`t give a soft lead to an ordinary horse. Ruffian was faster than Prove Out. And eye to eye contact effected Secretariat too. He was an equine. You don`t have that deep a knowledge of handicapping!!! The horses with the first four best times have an equal chance to win in any race..
Secretariat made his reputation at Saratoga in 1972 as 2 yr old.
Sec. was the Frist Horse unanimously named Horse of the year as a Two yr old.
But he was slower than Ruffian at 2 by a blow out!!!
Sec took 2 furlongs to get into top stride at Spa as a 2 yr old, Trailing the field by far.
Ruffian was quicker to hit top speed and could sustain top speed longer than Sec. All out for 6 fl.
Both in raw times and adjusted times Ruffian was 4 legnths faster that Sec as two year olds.
The sincerect compliment Ruffian got was from L Laurin who said after seeing Ruffian`ws 1:08 3/5
"She may well be better than Secreatriat" (A direct qute for Laurin Sec`s Trainer) SEc`s trainer thought Ruffian the better. So did Laz Barrera and Laz Barrera said Ruff would have beaten Foolish Pleasure a week earlier in The Hopeful by 20 legnths.
Ruffian`s Stride was more compact did not waste energy. She was quicker to hit top speed, One only had to look down at one`s program and back up and Ruffian went from last out of gate to a 60 yr lead!! Saw it many times myself!!!
While Ruffian was an amazing race horse and better two year old of the two (Ruffian and Secretariat.) There is no way she is a better horse than Secretariat,look at some of the horses she ran against were they as good as say Riva Ridge, Onion two horse Sec. beat easily except for in the slop. Or did she ever have something in her career as great as the Belmont?
As Afleet Alex siad you have your opinion
and all should have his own. Blame the slop for Sec`s loss???
Laurin said it was the slow pace/ I agree with Laurin
. Slop won`t stop a top like Sec.
Ruffian was taught to slow it down. I walked faster than Ruffian did in CC Oaks. Ruffian at a time of 2:27 was more potent than she would be at 2:24 because she learned to relax on the lead and let a horse come up to her. She was not then suscepitable to a rabbit. AS Mr Whitley had taught her. She possessed world class speed and did not have to use it.
Hot and Nasty was a potent filly. Only one to head Ruffian Legit.
Poor competition is a poor excuse.. Ruffian so fast it won`t matter who ran against her. And Laurin said Ruffian may well be better than Sec. Best compliment for Ruffian coming from Sec`s trainer.
As Afleet Alex said you have your opinion
and all should have his own. Blame the slop for Sec`s loss???
Laurin said it was the slow pace/ I agree with Laurin
. Slop won`t stop a top like Sec.
Ruffian was taught to slow it down. I walked faster than Ruffian did in CC Oaks. Ruffian at a time of 2:27 was more potent than she would be at 2:24 because she learned to relax on the lead and let a horse come up to her. She was not then suscepitable to a rabbit. AS Mr Whitley had taught her. She possessed world class speed and did not have to use it.
Hot and Nasty was a potent filly. Only one to head Ruffian Legit.
Poor competition is a poor excuse.. Ruffian so fast it won`t matter who ran against her. And Laurin said Ruffian may well be better than Sec. Best compliment for Ruffian coming from Sec`s trainer.
In the Mother Goose Stakes Ruffian was only 1/5 shy of Riva Ridge`s track record for 1 1/8 miles. BUT SHE WAS HELD BACK FOR TWO FURLONGS!!!!!! Jacinto Vasquez wanted Ruffian to relax and save herself as a training method so Ruffian would have a stronger stretch kick in the autumn when she ran in races over a mile plus.
Everyone seeing that race knew Ruffian would have blown away Riva Ridge`s track record if allowed to run as she pleased.
Ruffian was much more consistently faster than Riva Ridge.
She would have sunk Riva Ridge and his track record in nearby Jamaica Bay, if they ran a race together.
ok i saw a pic of secs work out and then mows work out the only way u can tell them apart it man o war has no socks and he is biger
but oh my god they look so alike freaky
So Secretariat was the bigger, wider and heavier horse!
Horseman have always been loath to compare horses who have never run against one another and no claim is made as to which horse was better. That is only good bar room talk. No one can prove it.
I always thought Shuvee (foaled in 1966) was the female version of a MOW look alike.
Shuvee was a big chestnut "red" female with a blaze face as MOW.
Shuvee was a great filly. Among her accomplishments were:
Only the second filly to win the NYRA filly triple crown.(1969)
Shuvee beat the boys twice in the Jockey Club Gold Cup. 1969-1970
She won over $800,000 in purse money in her time. ( a lot for 1970)
JCGP was run at TWO miles then. Shuvee is the only filly to win the JCGP two years in a row. As 3 yr old beat older males at two miles! But a good 3yr old beats good 4 yr olds 76% of the time.
Shuvee could not beat her arch rival Gallant Bloom to whom she lost twice. Shuvee was always fun for me to watch; somewhat like the female MOW. She paid better odds. lol
i no long but can u tell me the horses in it i know one is secraterit and northern dancer i think one is war admril but not sure so can u tell me please
Go to the link, and click on the title of the painting and it'll bring you to a page with the names of the horses in the picture and the history behind it. But the names of the horses are:
Secretariat
Northern Dancer
Cigar
Mr. Prospector
Seattle Slew
I have a horseshoe that I am told was worn by Man O' War when he lost to Upset. Does anyone have info regarding this race and if there is any way to authenticate the shoe. Any help would be appreciated.
