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Barbaro fan art
by manowar101
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3687/barbao2py.jpg
here is something i made of Barbaro
LOL Would to God that I can be a kid again. Truth is I was on track since the 1940s. I tell my stories as best I can recall them. I am dealing with a very unreal world of posting horses here. I can stay away from this board, what is the fun in it.
I was at all those races I mentioned here and many more that I can`t say on here. The interest I had was to make money. But betting loses long term.
If you want to disagree with my betting opinions fine. That makes horse racing.
If you are calling me a liar about my age and on track experience then it is time for me to get off the board.
Dang. You have Barbaro as the second coming of Sec and MOW.
Absolutely silly. Then you must hold Barbaro to the standards set by Sec and Mow.
No way no how. Did Barbaro get the Ky in under two Minutes?
Will he win by 31 in Belmont? Will he set 2:24 world record.
Sec broke 4 world records in the Belmont.
I recall the searing heat that day. Ron Turcotte said to me directly at Saratoga last summer as he spoke to any one who wanted to talk with him.
He never asked Sec for early speed but in the post parade for the Belmont he saw the other 4 horses not galloping in pre race
warm ups. Turcotte knew the other horses would not run for the early lead in that heat. So he decided to take Sec to the front.
Sham had orders to stay out front from Carlos Martin thus both horses went all out early on. Both jockeys looked at one another hoping to give up the speed duel which would knock both horses out.
Sec should have faded after 6 fl in 1:09 4/5 and the eye and eye pressure from Sham. Everyone thought too fast too fast Sec won`t last. It had defeat written all over it.
But then at the 7th furlong Sec began moving like a tremendous machine as Chick Andersen said that every one stood up in their seats
waving the programs. You knew Sec was leaving no doubt that he would be the TC Winner. It was a coronation of a very special horse. I still get goose bumps today when I think about it.
I sat in the awful heat that day for 6 hours and it was well worth it.
It is the biggest on track experience I ever had in 53 years.
It defenitly is media hype when you can advertise "hey watch the Triple Crown Series this horse might when all three races" that is very good for racing they did it for Smarty Jones he made the media look so stupid!. Barbaro is in't the same as either of the big reds or Slew but you saw Sec and everything leading up to him being as great as Man O' War did anybody realize that Sec was going to be that good?
The Drf was saying Secretariat was as good as MOW Before any Triple crown race he ran.
Sec was Horse of the year at 2, the only horse ever to be unanimously vote Horse of Year at two.
Laurin hated that comparison to MOW. It put untold pressure on him. He could not eat, sleep and got ulcers about it.
No Bold Ruler foal ever won a TC race and the DRF is saying Sec has the TC in the bag.
Laurin said openly he will be glad when Secretariat retires.
It was too much pressure for him. Laurin said this the day sec lost the Wood.
No one thought Sec could go 1 1/4 miles in Ky Dby.
The decision to run in Ky Derby was left up to Ron Turcotte.
Turcotte was told :You are the rider if you think Sec can`t go 1 1/4 miles we won`t run Sec in derby.
Turcotte was advised by Arcaro run him as I did Whirlaway in 1941. Hold Sec back the first quarter mile as Ben Jones advised me to do with Whirlaway in 1941 Derby.
Sec responded to that strategy beautifully as Sec ran each quarter in the Derby faster than the quarter before it.
A freak of nature as every horse slows down at the end of a race.
And still the fastest Derby 33 years later.
If I do remember a story I was told, I heard from the source that Charlie Hatton proclaimed Secretariat a great horse even before his first race, so I'm going to have to agree, once again, with MoW Lover.
I was trying to say that Barbaro might be the horse that everyone in 80 years from know compares all the horses of the 21st century to kind of like what Man O' War and Secretariat were in the 20th century Damn it don't get me mad!. just kidding lol.
It is impossible to compare Barbaro at this stage of his career to either MOW or Secretariat by virtue of the fact that his career is still in its early stages.
Comparing a horse who has only just completed the first leg of the TC with a champion like Sec who has won all three legs makes very little sense, give the horse a chance to contest the second and third legs before you start putting up the comparisons.
Barbaro could go on to be the greatest horse the world has ever seen, or, he could crash and burn at his next start, who knows ? we'll just have to wait and see.
No one knows what Barbaro, or any future KD winner for that matter, is capable of in the future, so save the comparisons until there's something to compare.
No one especially me is putting a crown on Barbaro's head and calling him king of all horses. You never know what horse might be the next great one all I'm saying. Maybe I should leave Man O' War and Secreatariat out of my posts completly because apparently nobody understands I'm not comparing Barbaro to them and apparently if people see Seretariat anywhere in my posts they'll have a heart attack because they think I'm bad mouthing him calm down everybody put some lithium under your tounges and breath in. I know how great he is his Belmont was the most impressive races by a horse I have ever seen I actually got a little choked up watching. I respect Secretariat as arguably(I think I should utilize the power of the parenthesis so I can explain myself a little better "arguably" because there is that other Big Red Man O' War everyone OK with that)one of the greatest race horses to ever put on a saddle(just an expression)and a tremendous athlete(right up there with human athletes)he's just not my favorite horse like Alydar, Alysheba, Easy Goer, Saratoga Six and Althea.[(just a personal preference as I'm sure every one has there favorite race horse for some it probably is Secretariat please don't post back how much better Secretariat is than Alydar or Alysheba, Easy Goer, Saratoga Six and Althea it's a pointless arguement and I don't care)(dont' anybody take that the wrong way either all I'm saying is I know how amazing Secretariat is I just don't care how much better he is than Alydar or the rest because I like them)] So in closing Secretariat is great(If somebody takes that the wrong way well...... I don't know how you could take that the wrong way but, just in case don't take it the wrong way) and I think I maybe on to something here with the Power Of The Parenthesis I hope more people utilize it so there aren't anymore misunderstandings about what people type remember everyone take a deep breath in and hold it.....hold it....... and release were going to get through this together no worries dudes and dudettes.
Ahh don't take the fun out of it. Its nice to dream for a little while. But your right he could be the biggest dud this saturday but its still nice to get amped up anyway for the time being! and just for the record I said he reminded me of John Henry not MOW or Secretariat! and no he hasn't proved to be remotely in John's class either but its cool to wish it to be so.
I have never hidden my identity on here. That one poster was not me. Some one out there my age see what I do and understands it.
That person was looking for the right thing when handicapping a race. Bravo! a hands on handicapper that knows what he or she is doing.
You can ululate all you want about great horses of the past.
Those arguments are superfluous. Excited about a TC winner?
Good marketing hype that generates business interest and income for horse racing. Is a TC winner better or worse than another
good horse who did not win TC.
I saw a TC winner every other year as I grew up. It was an easy thing to do then. Or it seemed so anyway.
I remember my mom taking me to Belmont on her birthday in 1947 for a match race between Armed (Horse of Year 1947) and Assault Tc winner 1946. I think the purse was $100,000, a fortune in 1947.
Man O War Lover you and however Anonymous was obviously look at racing from the handicaping perspective. Please try and understand that not everyone on this board is a handicaper (I don't mean to speak for anyone)But it seems like lena for example is a horse lover not a handicaper. And also from the perspective that you've been around alot longer than most on this board. It was a pointless arguement to get into in the first place (which are better the 70's or 40's horses) which denegrated into a whole other bunch of disagreements we have about horse racing obviously we both drasticly different people don't get all fighin mad again I'm trying to give you an olive branch here.
Lena your right I bet your fun at parties I've been caught up in the history of horse racing that I neglected to see that history is being made right in front of our eyes. I'm not usually a hot head I just tend to let my passion take over sometimes from now on I'll try and not get carried away.
I have been known to gain a chuckle or two at a party he he and Passion is a good and rare thing it lets us know we are alive inside as well as on the out. I just haven't been this excited about a horse in such a long time. I liked Smarty and Afleet however to be honest I hated Elliot I knew he would lose with him on board he made a prentis mistake in the Belmont that stiff! and cost that animal the triple and I just didn't think Afleet was as talented as Smarty but this horse just mesmerized me from the get go! I hope Im not getting carried away! but the last horse I can remmember literally loving or totally entralled watching him race was John Henry and it just feels GREAT! 20 years is a longtime for a talent like this to wait to enjoy it again. I mean enjoy it without any trepidation I mean even if this horse loses the Preak Ill keep watching because I know the best is yet to come! Does that make sense??? I know his career won't end with a loss he will keep going and keep getting better! Thats what this sport has missed for so long a gamer! a real competitor a Champion not a paper champion a real honest to goodness Dirt track champion!
I know what you mean about Elliot it's too bad for Smarty he was robbed of Triple Crown glory because of a rookie mistake. I am pumped about Barbaro as well I said it before when you look into his eye's and the way he walks he knows no other horse can touch him. I have been waiting scince 97' with Silver Charm then in 98' with Real Quiet then 99' Charismatic, 02' War Emblem, 03' Funny Cide, 04' Smarty Jones, 05'Afleet Alex but none of them had that mental edge like I
was there for all the heartbreaks finally we are going to see it
Barbaro might be the Man O' War of the 21st century but I'm speculating a bit much.
I'm from around the Cleveland area (it takes about 5 minutes to get to downtown Cleveland from my house) besides being a horse racing fan I am also a die hard Browns fan and this years Super Bowl was absolute torture the steelers stink!.
I thought I'd share some really cute photos I found for Barbaro! He looks so happy and is so full of himself! He went to the track for his first gallop and all was well!
It's to bad about Lawyer Ron but I agree with the discussion get him well so he can run this summer!
Come on Guys think about it we could be on the verge of history or in for one of the biggest let downs in Horse racing history! Lets get amped up for this Preakness!!! we have been waiting 28 years for a triple and counting my Dad is so prime for this he has asked the Good Lord himself to Bless him with seeing another triple crown he promised not to even talk or bet horse racing if he just lets Brabaro win it! thats lent to a 2.00 better boyz! Thats a major sacrife! Why ya think Im on this site! I lost my horse racing buddy for the next month and 1/2 Ha Ha just lidding Jibb!!! simma down! so lets talk Barbaro and triples past lets stop all the bickering at least lets talk Man O War we all got drawn to this site because of him! Beth if you read this throw some Big Red stats out there they always leave me awestruck! This horse is impressive 80-90 years later I hope everyone here realises that! He is the stuff dreams are made of in this sport! Im from Philly he is the only thing to win despite that Philly Jinx yes everyone Riddle was from philly his barn burned down(the jinx extended all the way to MD gotta love it) but the horse wasn't there thats gotta mean something especially here in the city of brotherly love! Trust me!!! Plus Barbaro should be associated with Pittsburgh more than Philly his owners are from more towards that area so thats a plus in his favor! They just won the superbowl and they do things in twos. two sups back to back and football and baseball champs in same year so how about the horse and the bus in the same year! Isn't that sweet!???
everyone says Barbaos got the belmont because he loves the distance and i wil agree it is the shortness of the preaknees that everyone worried about(if i read corractly) but i think he can do it. there is something special about him.
Lawyer Ron out of Preakness
by Marty McGee
Daily Racing Form 5/9/2006
http://www.ntra.com/content.aspx?type=news&id=17740
LOUISVILLE, Ky. - In, out, in. And now, finally, Lawyer Ron is out.
Trainer Bob Holthus said Thursday at Churchill Downs that Lawyer Ron will undergo surgery Friday morning to have a small bone chip removed from his right hind ankle and therefore will have to pass the 131st Preakness on May 20 at Pimlico.
Holthus said the chip is so minor that "if he was a cheap horse you wouldn't have thought anything of it." He said the colt will be out of training for 30 to 40 days and would be pointed to a late-summer campaign.
"I really hate to miss the Preakness because I really thought he had some kind of chance to be 1-2-3," said Holthus. "But we've had a pretty good run, I suppose."
The surgery will be performed at the Rood and Riddle equine clinic in Lexington, with the colt scheduled to return to his Churchill stall in the evening.
The announcement of the surgery ends a period of several days during which Holthus and several veterinarians, including those hired by the colt's new ownership entity, Stonewall Stallions, kept going back and forth on whether or not to run the horse in the Preakness.
Lawyer Ron finished 12th of 20 as the 10-1 fourth choice in the 132nd Kentucky Derby last Saturday at Churchill.
Isn't this an exciting time to be horse racing fan. We've got Barbaro our best shot at a Triple Crown in recent memory Oonagh Maccool an emerging Distaff star and a whole host of other topics to discuss like who will be the top older horse this year will Lost In The the Fog regain his pre breeder's cup form plus you have Discreet Cat that is undeafeted perhaps a mid late summer rivalry with Barbaro. NOW I NEVER SAID THAT I KNOW MORE THAN ANY TURF WRITERS but, in my worthless opinion we could be in for a real great summer and fall of racing. Also heres something I found interesting probably most of you have come along this surfing the net The Blood-Horse magazine's top 100 thouroughbred champions of the 20th century compiled by TURF WRITERS now most likley these guys aren't quite old enough to have seen all of these horses race but, they are TURF WRITERS SO IT IS THERE JOB TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN OPINION ON A HORSE AFTER IT RACED I'll give you the top 10 1.MAN O' WAR 2.SECRETARIAT 3.CITATION 4.KELSO (who doesn't usually get alot of recognition glad to see he got some love on here)5.COUNT FLEET (hmmm two 40's horses in the top five and only one 70's horse)6.DR.FAGER 7.NATIVE DANCER 8.FOREGO 9.SEATTLE SLEW 10.SPECTACULAR BID. Some others 12.Affirmed 13.War Admiral 18.Cigar 22.Phar Lap 31.Sunday Silence 34.Easy Goer 42.Alysheba I don't agree with the last three at all Sunday and Easy should have atleast been in the top 30 and Alysheba should be ahead of both of them. Now I know some of you are not going to agree with this list but, I just thought it was something worth taking a look at.
Opinion polls prove nothing. A sports writer has no choice but to make up his mind sometimes years after a horse has run. A writer can not be born before every great horse has run.
Opinion polls are hog wash!!! Proves nothing!!!
Count Fleet? Great early speed but George Cassidy the starter said he was scared to death of the starting gate at two years old. Owner John Hertz almost got rid of Count Fleet for that reason. Count fleet lost 5 times
for fear of starting gate.
Had great Career but.... Never had a contested pace in his face. Sec`s Belmont MUCH MUCH Better than his.
And if Count Fleet were to wing it eye to eye with SS he would finish with very slow final times Count Fllet was not used to that eye to eye pressure.
SS much more versitle than "Loose Lead Winners"
Hatton and Hirsch had to make opinions after horses run. That is how they got paid.
Well "Anonymous" there's no opinion polls it was created by turf writers. Yes Count Fleet was afraid of the starting gate he did loose five times because of that very same reason but, Count Fleet still won 16 of 21 races and three important races in a row the Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes and the Belmont Stakes aka the Triple Crown. If you compared every great horses race to Secretariat's Belmont you would be putting all those great horses down Secretariat's Belmont is without a dought the best performance by any horse in the 20th century you can't hold every horse to Secretariat. You Know "Anonymous" you sound alot like another poster on here a real intelligent person that unfortanetly if someone has an opinion that differs from his he can't except that.
That was not me but I am glad someone thinks as I do.
And He won means little as he did it with an easy lead.
And if that Poster (I salute you) means Seattle Slew would have contested the pace with The Count and knock his final times way down (ALA) Affirmed to Bid
I shake his hand. Every great in the past is not as Great as Secretariat and Seattle Slew for thier ability to run eye and eye in 1:09 + and finish full of run was lacking or never proved. Save for MOW no other greats have been able to do it.
That is why those 3 Sexy, Sea Slew, MOW. ARE AT THE TOP OF THE GAME
other greats I admire dearly do not muster up to Sexy, SS and MOW
Hard fact of racing life.
TY Anonymous. If that were me I would say it and would have put it in
When I saw that Cigar was 18th and John Henry, Discovery, Gallant Fox and Bold Ruler were ranked below him I immedeatly disagreed with it but, I didn't whine an complain that there were alot better horses than Cigar that were ranked below him I understood that they had an opinion about where the great horses of the last century ranked not because there sports writers because there fans of horse racing that had an opinion. I read something intresting the other day Equus Magazine sent a psychic to communicate with John Henry they said he saw another unmanageable (John Henry is not a nice horse even after he was gelded) colt killed in the stall next to him the psychic said that he said "We have no real choice but one path to follow-pleasing humans the only real win we have is our own survival." Wow sounds like John Henry doesn't like humans.
You might want to sit down for this won I AGREE with your entire post I know I can't beleive it either. So what horse do you live by? Do you have a sentimental horse that is special to you? Mine is Alysheba when I was two my family took a trip to New York and we also took a side trip to Monmouth and it just so happend it was the day of the 1988 Iselin Handicap and he had camcorder with him and taped the whole race. We were in the paddock and we where really close Alysheba walked right in front of me snorted a few times and bobbed his head I was very frightned and hid behind my mom Alysheba was pretty big horse to two year old he probably would have looked twice as huge I don't remember any of it this was what my parents told me some years afterwards anyway I still have the tape of the Iselin Handicap I made it my point to try and find tapes of Alysheba's races. Thats my favorite that I will and always have stuck with. Could he have beaten Man O' War, Secretariat, Seattle Slew probably not but, I would stick up for Alysheba long before I would stick up for Man O' War, Secretariat or Seattle Slew.
Please cut it out! I'm sick and tired of this petty bickering. I hate doing this but if I have to I WILL START DELETING TROUBLESOME POSTS. I've done it in the past to keep the peace on this board and I will do it again though I rather not have to.
So PLEASE cool it and check the attitude AWAY FROM THE BOARD.
Just like children.......!!!!, I've pretty much kept my mouth shut since the last flair up months ago, I've had it with these people!!! STOP FIGHTING, IF I LEARNED TO YOU CAN!!! Please Beth don't close down the board it is obvious some of them don't appreciate what you are doing but I sure do. Thanks.
I won't close the board, I enjoy this board as much as you do Afleet Alex and the rest of the regulars. But I WILL NOT let someone cop-up and attitude on here either. So SHAPE UP OR SHIP OUT. Like I said I have deleted posts in the past and I will do it again if I must. Don't push me.
I agree with it except Easy Goer and Sunday Silence need to be bumped for John Henry and Ruffian respectively she may have passed early but she was one hell of a racer while she lived and John enry just flat out never gets his due! Its a crime how he is overlooked. Its kind of hard ot to place Cigar on that list either. Just my opinion Jibb don't go crazy on me now! stay focused buddy! he he LOL just kidding!
With only about tops 8 or 9 runners heading in to the Preakness give or take a couple Barbaro won't have to worry about too much traffic but, I think Matz should be a little concerned about Barbaro's problem of getting out of the gate in his last two starts (Florida Derby and Kentucky Derby) he stumbled out of the gate in my opinion thats what caused him to get into that duel with Sharp Humor. Know in the Derby it didn't cost him that much because it was a longer race and he was able to make up the lost ground fairly quickly but, if he stumbles in the Preakness it might put him at a real disadvantage especially if Brother Derek grabs the lead when that happens he's been lights out. But Barbaro does have one advantage and that's Edgar Prado he dominated at Pimlico from 1990 to 1999 and won 14 meet titles as Pimlico's leading jockey. If Barbaro gets past the Preakness he'll have all the advantages in the Belmont first Edgar again has been great in the Belmont in the past 5 year including deniening War Emblem and Smarty Jones Triple Crown glory when he guided Sarava and Birdstone to victory not to mention Barbaro has the Perfect Pedigree to go a mile and a half if Barbaro gets past the Preakness the Belmont might turn into to a victory gallop. (p.s. MoW lover get over it)
I am not trying to start an argument with you. Stats mean nothing with this animal. He hates to lose and pace despite what a scratch sheet tells you means nothing either.If this beast has to close he will. He has speed we haven't seen yet! He is an alpha male he will not allow an inferior to beat him and again we have not seen this horse turn the turbo on! Despite my Dad being a Jockey I have always seen this sport from a Trainers point of view! Thats the ultimate high to know an animal like this to sense its train of thought its feelings to individualise it like a person because they are so much like people and above all to love and respect it for what it is an athlete and a perfect engine created by mother nature herself a scratch sheet is just numbers. This horse went from Turf to dirt without blinking an eye that is so rare its scary. He knows exactly what his job is out there. Matz and Prado know what they got this horse is in good hands in fact he is the best kept secret in Horse racing until after the preakness! Watch!I don't think horse racing is prepared for what is about to hit it! Watch him run he never dips his head not ever he holds that head high with every thud of a hoof! He looks at the competition while he passes it with absolute distain or disgust as if to say this is it this is the best you can give me! There is no competition each entrant is hoping for place or show to make a buck trust me! Thats why they are slow to pull the trigger and enter in this race!
Owner`s choice to slaughter Execller. Sad I do not like that.
Slew beat Exceller and was laughing at the finish just two weeks earlier. Slew was much the best among Affirmed and Exceller.
Slew is the ONLY horse to run a TC race that compares with Secretariats TC wins. Slews Preakness could easily have beaten Secretariat`s. But not in the KY Db and Belmont.
Sexy and Slew are co top stars in distance races.
Either of these will blow away and TC race winner before or since then.
I remember the night of Sex`s Belmont win and I met many gentlemen in the Belmont Clubhouse.
The GENTLEMEN were glad to speak to the public.
Bernie Scwarthz who was a workout clocker for DRF since 1915
He clocked MOW am works in 1919 and 1920.
Schwartz Statement; Secreratariat was more powerful than MOW SExy is greatest.
Charlie Hatton who wrote and covered MOW races
Sec is greater his run the best ever he had seen in Belmont.
George Cassidy the starter and son of Mars Cassidy saw his dad start MOW races. Sec more powerful stretch runner than MOW. Incidently every TC winner has faced GEORGE CASSIDY as the starter in the Belmont Stakes. G Cassidy the NY race starter since 1929. Except Sir Barton in 1919 who faced his dad Mars.
Holly Huges traind 1917 KY winner George Smith and beat two other TC winners in 1918 Exterminator and Old Rose Bud.
Holly Hughes said Sec beat more older horses. MOW only Sir Barton who was ready for the grave.
These men worked at racing in the MOW era and were still working at in when Sec ran. They were not old feeble minded people.
That u think u know as much as C Hatton, B Schwartz, G Cassidy and Holly Hughes makes my belly turn.
And there is a definite difference in comparing a race result with a pre race opinion.
Question: WHO IS BERNIE SCHWARTZ??? Please provide confirmation cites (such as DRF or NY Times articles; copies of any public interviews he gave; location of published writings of his, etc) to establish and confirm his views and comments. How old was Bernie Schwartz in 1973??? Is Bernie Schwartz still living? If not, in what year did he die? -- must be after 1973. Is Bernie Schwartz related to the renowned and long-time DRF morning clocker Gene (Frenchy) Schwartz?? Please tell us.
-------
"Bernie Scwarthz (sic) who was a workout clocker for DRF since 1915 He clocked MOW am works in 1919 and 1920. Schwartz Statement; Secreratariat was more powerful than MOW SExy is greatest."
Calm down people, please. I was hoping that everyone would be able to get past their differences without me having to butt in. I'm not going to name names nor point out topics, but can we please just agree to disagree on the topics that people are arguing/bickering over and drop it? Arguing/bickering is not going to help in bringing the point across, it's just going to make everyone more aggrivated.
So everyone can we please get back to talking horse racing without the bickering and arguing? Can y'all please just respect each others opinion and agree to disagree, please?? I would really appreciate it.
Thanks Beth there has been alot of "tension" on this board! And it's not even about the Triple Crown "this year!" Lets get back to having fun good discussions! Please!
I suppose I should also appologize for all the people who enjoy horse racing for more than just the gambling aspect (very narrow minded of you) true the sport of horse racing was basically founded on gambling but, it doesn't need gambling to survive Dubai does pretty well without it
true
people who aren't muslim bet over there but that doesn't fund the sport
I can't compare to myself to Sheihk Mohamed with all the money he has but, I do respect him he loved horses he liked to watch the races he never bet on a race he was a SPECTATOR what OOOOOHHHHHH KNOW A SPECTATOR AT A RACE TRACK SOMEBODY GET THAT MAN TO A BETTING WINDOW QUICKLY!!!!!.
You still don't get what I'm trying to tell you I could give a crap less about gambling and handicapping not everyone on this site is handicapper so what are you saying I can't like horse racing and not be a gambler. Sorry I'm not a loser and go to the track every Friday night and plunk down my paycheck maybe thats how you get your adrenaline rush I'm not that stupid but, by your defenition my opinnion would be valid It's to bad I choose to be a science fiction writer other wise I would have become a turf writer so then my job would give my opinnion substance.
Cool it, please. Can y'all please just agree to disagree and drop it? Arguing is not going to help bring the point across (what ever the point is) it's just going to aggrivate everyone.
So can we please drop the subject and get back to talking horse racing in general? I would really appreciate it.
I just want to apologize to everyone (except a certain lover)on this board I'm very passionate when it comes to horse racing like I said before horse racing helped me get through a rough period in my life and I've done alot of research on the history of horse racing and to be told my opinion is worthless. And here's my last word on the subject first I never said racetracks could stay in business without betting in america I said Dubai american race tracks rely on losers to come and bet there money away second I'm not looking for credibility in horse racing it sounds like you are though. Third at least I took the high road I don't need to use colorful language in my posts I'd rather be an intellectual snob than a loser handicapper what are you going to do fight me over the computer?. Once again I apologize to everybody I can assure everyone my next post will have nothing to do with this subject.
i have little experince in racing ok i am 14 (i know more about the horse that raced instead of racing it self) and w/ out betting tracks could give big purses and early in the 20 and i think 30 betting was illagl and racing declined in America. But eh entry fee is also what can helo keep a track afloat but with out betting tracks would be small and just not has nice has some like churchill downs.
Kill the attitude please. I was talking to both of you. This board is about horse racing, not a business on how the race track makes their money. The reason for this board is so people can come here and talk horse racing (the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, the Belmont, the Wood Memorial, the Breeders' Cup races, etc.) It's NOT about betting, nor the money used in betting. So can we please change the topic?? I would greatly appreciate it.
me. i love horses and i wacthed the Black Stallion movie and i loved the horse racing part and that how i got it and i love reading about it.my mom and dad says i am a walking race horse enclopedia(sp?)
If you like track records the DRF has told me about these jems.
Horses who have set the most track records in a career.
Pan Zareta set 23 tracks records. The most of any recognized champion.
Roamer set 17 track records. One against the clock still stands.
Roamer broke the mythical barrier of one mile in less than 1:35
Exterminator set 16 track records. Set one record in a match race against Cleopatra whom he beat by 6. The same margin MOW beat Cleopatra.
Seabiscuit set 13 track records. Broke the will of War Admiral in that match race. Set a track record that day.
Old Rosebud had 11 track marks. 3 KY Derby ran in the same race at Pimlico. Geroge Smith 1917 Old Rosebud 1914 Exterminator 1918.
George Smith won the race.
I love Exterminator, he was the first race horse named I'd ever heard about or recongized. When I was 7 my father read me the book of "Old Bones" the galloping sack of bones who won the Kentucky Derby when his stablemate Sun Biar was scratched! It was a very old book my father got in the 60's! and I still have it!
Exterminator was quite the horse winning 50 out of 100 races! and living to be 30 not to shabby at all! :)
The book was called "Old Bones the Wonder Horse" and the author was Mildred Mastin Pace. Here is a link to the book in Amazon.com if you are interested in checking it out. I have 2 copies of the book, I consider myself lucky in that since I have no idea how I got 2 copies.
Also here a link to the Amazon website for the book as well incase you have difficulty finding it. Good Luck.
As of today only 7 horses have entered. Lawyer Ron is probably out with a Minor Ankle Injury they found! I knew something was wrong! Lawyer Ron should have been on the board!
Barbaro's scaring off rivals last two years have been full fields or close to full fields! Imagin if he wins the Preakness he might face a tiny field in the Belmont like Sec did!
1. Barbaro Matz/Prado
Brilliant Kentucky Derby win. Are we looking at the next Triple Crown winner?
I think that shows that the trainers realize that he is a serious Triple Crown contender not like Smarty Jones who was more a public fascination story and a media creation the trainers knew eventually his front running style would betray him. I read that Steppenwolfer and Bluegrass Cat are skipping the Preakness and training up for the Belmont the newcomers in the Preakness and who ever else joins the party in the Belmont just don't stand a chance there no where near where Brother Derek, Sweetnorthernsaint and the others that ran in the Derby are and they got demolished it certainly looks on paper like Affirmed won't be reffered to as the last Triple Crown winner anymore.
"Didn’t have a great trip in Derby but still got his doors blown off. Maybe he can rebound." from Horse Racing Fan
Yes he didn't have a good trip, but being extremely wide on both turns, racing a not normal style, and losing a shoe, really isn't getting your doors blown off, he was definately the second best horse in the race, GAINING at the end, I WAS THERE, I equated how wide he was on the turns and how much it costed him, it equated to -9 length, therefore if he would have a had a perfect race, yes he wouldn't have won but he would only have been beaten a half length not bad, for losing a shoe, and running from way out of it for a front runner. I am still rooting for him in the Preakness and I do think he will win it.
"Didn’t have a great trip in Derby but still got his doors blown off. Maybe he can rebound." from Horse Racing Fan
Yes he didn't have a good trip, but being extremely wide on both turns, racing a not normal style, and losing a shoe, really isn't getting your doors blown off, he was definately the second best horse in the race, GAINING at the end, I WAS THERE, I equated how wide he was on the turns and how much it costed him, it equated to -9 length, therefore if he would have a had a perfect race, yes he wouldn't have won but he would only have been beaten a half length not bad, for losing a shoe, and running from way out of it for a front runner. I am still rooting for him in the Preakness and I do think he will win it.
First off that wasn't my quote! I got that off of ESPN so don't be pointing fingers at me for saying that! Brother Derek is a nice horse. I personally think he wouldn't of won even if he didn't get the 18th hole! Barbaro is a better horse! Don't get me wrong I'm sure Brother Derek will do better in the Preakness because smaller fields of horses are easier and more his style! I still don't know if it will be enough for a win! Barbaro's looking too good right know!
You all so have to imagine that the Derby probably took way more out of Brother Derek then it did Barbaro!
Brother Dereks "Excuses"
1. 18 Starting Postition
2. Really Wide Entire Race
3. Lost Shoe before or during race
4. Caught in traffic supposed horse running into him!
I'm sure this race took alot out of him. Hendricks said the race did take a toll on Brother Derek. Perhaps to much?
That won't last long a lot of trainers will wait till a week or 5 days before to fill up the card.Everyone wants to be the one who took Barbaro out. If he loses this its over but if he wins the Belmont is his and they know it. They are waying the odds carefully! Im willing to lay money Baffert will throw one of his 3 nags in there place and show purses are a nice catch if you can get it.He has no delussions about beating Barbaro. He will approach this like a good business man. Me personally Im hoping Jazil gives it another go. I played that exacta in the derby and I don't care about winning Id just like to bet it again to avoid a jinx! Im Italian Im superstitious....he he he plus he closes like a freight train I think he can pop place pretty handily if he is healthy. Plus I like Jara he is young but I think he could be a great one in time this would be a big confidence boost if he could hang in there with Barbaro and Prado!
The 40`s horses were over raced because there was no other way to make money with the horses. The season for racing was only half as long as now and had many fewer tracks in America in which to race.
Owners have told me in the 40`s that they disliked racing their horses so often. But there was no way to pay the bills except to squeeze as many purses as they could out of their horses.
A 1100 pound horse in 1940 was no tougher than an 1100 pound horse in 1970.
There were longer racing seasons and many more tracks and better purses to compete for in 1970s. That is why fewer races per year per horse.
Owneres of today are glad not to abuse their horses by over racing them.
There were many breakdowns too by over running horses in the 40s.
Citation for one broke down when Ben Jones tried to squeeze another purse out of him in 1948. Citation was never the same again.
1970s had more tops than any other decade in history. And they set times still unbroken 30 years later. 1970 is ONLY YESTERDAY TO ME.
This being the only the second time I think I have agreeed with you Man o' Lover, I think the horses of the 70's were as tough or tougher than the 40's as well, if that is what you are trying to say.
I want to ask you was it as big a thing when a horse one the Triple Crown in those days like it might be if Barbaro were to win the Triple Crown this year?.
The TC grew in stature during the 25 years after Citation won it because no horse won untill 1973. So the media hyped out on Secretariat. Good business sense. No Bold Ruler ever won a single TC race before Sec did.
The DRF was saying Sec had it in the bag when Sec lost the Wood.
MOW Lover's referring to Bold Ruler(s) as in his offspring! Thats the reason Chenery was so worried that Secretariat wouldn't win any of the TC races because as good as all of Bold Ruler's offspring were they all flopped in TC Races until Sec.
Sorry for being born before a race even happend so I guess that means alot of peoples opinnions this site don't matter because I'm sure some didn't witness Man O' War so I guess this site shouldn't even exsist then huh. Your knowledgeable person someone people can ask questions about the old days of racing but, don't think that your better than everyone else because you there. And I wouldn't be talking about betting like a badge of honor unlike most people who are into horse racing for the gambling aspect I enjoy watching a horse race for the sport of it and horse racing helped me through a bad time so don't talk to me about backing up an opinion with hard earned cash because like I said in the short term you may win a couple bucks but, in the long term it's a fruitless endeavouer.
hey man o lover man whats your problem tellin some chap his opinnion is worthless that ain't cool man! jibberish was just defended his opinion you can't be faultin somebody because they weren't there to see seattle slew or secretariat that dont mean they cant have an opinion . Don't worry jibb Muf is on your side that bloke ain't nothin but crotchety old wanker!.
Welcome All New Posters, I am Beth, the Creator of this board. Man O' War was (to me) the greatest race horse that America (if not the world) ever saw. Did any of you see the movie "Seabiscuit"?? Well near the end of the movie remember when you saw Seabiscuit race War Admiral?? Well (to use human terms) War Admiral is Man O' War's son (one of many), and Seabiscuit is Man O' War's grandson. To use human terms, War Admiral was Seabscuit's uncle, and Seabiscuit was War Admiral's nephew (since Seabiscuit's father was brother to War Admiral) Y'all can learn more about Man O' War if y'all wish at my website http://www.angelfire.com/nc/ManOWar/ this site has many links to many different website about Man O' War, also as you've seen on this board, we have a number of people on here who know a good bit about him too if you are curious.
Thank You Beth I have been in your site from time to time.However the derby promted me to start chatting. I just love to read about him(Man O War) and look at him! What a magnificent beautiful freak of nature! I first learned of him in my school library I read a very little known book called King of the Kings I thought it was about Jesus what I can I say I was 9 at the time it was based on his life but it was a fictious book more along the lines of the Black Stallion but a good book if you can find it. It gave some stats that to me then where intriging and as I grew older I continued to read about him and I am never failed to be amazed almost a whole century later by this animal so Thank You again for creating this site.
You know Lena your OPINNION of Man O' War as being a freak of nature is worthless because you weren't there to see him in person you read it in book YOU DIDN'T THINK HE WAS GOING TO WIN BEFORE ALL HIS RACES and you DIDN'T BACK UP YOUR OPINNION WITH YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY. Not my words according to Man O' Lover so any comments or complaints please let him know about it
ok if any boby that saw man o war run is probally to old to remember... my grandpa was born in 1924 or 1925 and is 80 about to be 81 so someone who was old enought to see him and know what they are seeing probally would reallt remeber so teh "u can`t make a opionon about man o war because u did see him "really doesn`t work. not saying u said it Jibberish version 2.0.. i am just sayin about what man o war lover said
Ok OK this is pointless However there is a site that shows his match race against Sir Barton I think thats his name. Its pretty cool you guys might to check it out. Just plug in Man O War and one of the sites have it. I do not know the name of the site sorry!
Hi I just found this site while surfing the net I'm a huge fan of big red. Man o lover it sounds to me like you have a big superiority complex just because you've seen racing for 53 years I agree with jibberish you can't take the performance from Secretariats 1973 Belmont and compare that to any of Seabiscuits races you can't really predict what a horse will do from one race to the next everyone is already talking about Barbaro winning the triple crown you never know what might happen in the Preakness or the Belmont thats why I think it's unfair to say that Seabiscuit would be looking at Slews ass the whole race if I'm not mistaken Slew and Secretariat aren't the only ones to break track records Seabiscuit broke a few of his own in his day. I'm a baseball fan have been for many years you can't compare Barry Bonds to Babe Ruthe they played in different era's in baseball just like you can't compare Secretariat, Seattle Slew and Affirmed to Citation, Assault, Count Fleet and Whirlaway I don't care how much data you can attest to it.
Yes you can see a difference between Sec and the 70s contrasted with the 40s. Can`t tell the outcome of a race ever before it is run. The horses of the 70`s did have more eye to eye pressure and
did run faster fractions and pulled out of the races less leg weary than the 40s horses. I doo not have a complex of being superior but I have lost enough betting money to learn SOMETHING IN 53 YEARS. Not just the time but the effort and the friends and family I SHARED IT with. Just a terrible handicapper I am and loser at betting. But the memories and the joys of seeing these greats is what racing is for me.
What do you mean "less leg weary" the 40's horses raced on average every two weeks or even less (just a guess) 70's horses had more time between races thats why you I still say you can't compare the 70's horses to the 40's because the excellerated breeding evolves and changes the thoroughbred breed in the 40's it was about stamina in the 70's it was about rocket engine named Secretariat.
Simple you can see the difference in how the horses lifted their legs at the end of races then. You can see when a horse is tired?
Since Roman Empire times that has been the same in Chariot Races?
No horse can go all out for 6 fl in 1:09 and have anyting left if another horse contests the pace with him. Dosen~t matter what era it was. That is why SS and Sec stand out.
The great Lexington lost his only race in 1855 by eye to eye pressure from Lacomte in Super fast time. That never changes.
HOYYY BOYZ HOWZ IT GOIN JUST MOVED FROM STAFFORDSHIRE TO THE STATES LOVE TO JUST WATCH HORSES RACE NEVER HEARD OF THIS MAN O WAR FELLOW LOVE RACING HATE THAT DAMN BETT
