Some shots of the dash, pistons and rods (6" chev), and my custom made SS port plates.

Apparently that didn't work.

Here's a shot of the front of the car from below.
I can't yet figure out how to post more than one pic at a time.

I made my own axial hydralic throw out bearing for the TKO.
Other shots are of the right rear suspension. In the one shot the inner panels are removed.
I'm a cheap bugger with access to zillon dollar CNC machines, sooooo....I took 15 lbs outt'a
my flywheel, most it was actually hogged out from the backside. (before and after shots).

Hey Peter, I just love your car and engine, excellent work. I would really like to see a pic of your "custom made SS port plates" if you have any. I have been thinking about building a twin turbo system for one of my 351c mustangs.

The flange plates are laser cut from .050 304 SS that I drew up on AutoCad. The port floor plates are also .050 304, tig welded to the flange. The final exhaust port perimeter is the same as the inside of a .065 wall 1.75" SS header tube, this makes for a nice transition. The port plate is sandwhiched between the header and the head. I use two sets of 4V exhaust gaskets (one for either side of the port plate).
Obviously the whole point of this excercise is to get rid of that horrible dog leg in the exhaust port and to smooth out the exhaust port flow and also to make a smooth transiton to the header.
I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about turboed Clevelands ( I don't know everything that's for sure, I'm always learning, but I ain't no dumby neither ).

ps I threw in a pic of the piston conrod assemblys just for fun.

Thanks Peter. the more I look into the turbo stuff the more I am really hooked on it. I will go buy some books this week end and try and get up to speed on it. It might seem silly to some but one of the big peves I have/had with the turbo thing is tipicly it's all under hood, thats why I like blowers, I now realize if I were to set up a marine style turbo setup in a car I could get what I like so much... the "in your face" look.

I was wondering if you had the "stinger" type plates because I was planning to order a few sets, I understand they are better than the flat plate designs and thought they would be more suitable for turbos than the aluminum raised port plates which I was wondering if they could leak in this use.

http://www.mpgheads.com/PortPlate/PortPlateDetail.htm
[img][/img]


I will ask some questions in the other forum soon when I get closer to what I want to try to do, kind of like this... sticking out the hood on an 70 shelby..., anyway thanks, you got some great ideas.

[img][/img]

Hi Kaz..
HOLY SMOKES !!!
...Yeah...an installation like that would get some serious attention.
Of course ya' might need a periscope to see !!
If you are looking for reading material, "Turbochargers" by Hugh Macinnes ( HP books ) is still considered the "bible" for turbo enthusiasts, even though it is some what out of date. Also call up Turbonetics and ask them to send you one of their catalogs ( 805-581-0333 ), there is a wealth of info with regards to turbo maps and turbo sizing.
Turbonetics can also provide you with some great advice, read the books first though.
There are some other very advanced books out there as well, but they deal a little more with theory.

I use the floor plate design because it transitions nicely into the turbo headers. I've never read anything about one design being better than another.

I threw in a couple more Cobra Cleveland pix.
One pic is of the block in the EDM machine getting the bottom of the new sleeves "trimmed".
The other pics are self explanitory.

Heres some ideas

Hey Kaz !!
I think Ben is making a point about "visual impact" and turbos.
Not to mention the shreek of a turbo at full song.

Hey you kids, don't tou stick your fingers in those hair dryers !!!

Yup, those turbo hanging out of the hood look awesome to me, the Probe looks just wild. It's funny when I was a teen and seen MADMAX, that blower Falcon has always been some sort of Inspiration to me when thinking about building a car. Looking at the films again today I took more notice of this... I really love the... "in your face" thing:)


[img][/img]

I am day dreaming/thinking about a 393C, with a 671 blower intake, with a blower type A/W intercooler on it, with a custom tunnel ram top, with 2 holley carbs, with a dual custom blow though hat, with a pair of T3 turbocoupe turbos, mounted on each side of a custom set of straight up tractor pull headers... quad turbos sticking through the hood would look good:)

BTW Peter, I was just wondering what it cost you to get your block sleeved?, I was planning on doing this before I heard about new blocks coming out. I found a shop here that said $150 a hole cnd.

Gee, I gotta look at this forum more often.
Hi Kaz, nice pic by the way. How would you like that bearing down on you at 100 MPH, filling up the rear view mirror ?
As far as sleeving the Cleveland goes, I sleeved all 8 bores with "Darton" sleeves.
According to the invoice (dated 11/03/2003)I paid a total of $438.28 US for the 8 raw sleeves.
SEM power train did the machine work and sleeve installation. If I recall correctly that bill cam to around $900.00 Canadian. I've got a call into SEM to confirm that price, if it is different I will edit this post.
A few notes about the sleeving process.
First off, the average cast iron block has an average tensile yield strength of 30 to 40 thousands psi. Darton claims that their centrifigally cast sleeves have a yield strenght of over 100,00 thousand psi. infact I think they say 130,000 psi.
Second, because the sleeves are machined inside and out there is no core shift to worry about.
The only possible disadvantage (besides cost)is the theory that the block's integrity is effected by the machining out of the old bores. In some cases virtually the entire old cylinder wall is completely machined away to make room for the sleeve. Other than the water jacket there is nothing connecting the crankcase to the head deck. The sleeve has a flange on it's top which requires a mating step to be machined into the deck, the bottm of the sleeve is bonded and sealed into the crankcase end of the block with a special locktite product. They used to furnace braze sleeves into place years ago.
Apparently this bonding method is the prefered way today, it's cheaper and doesn't require any further machining other than deck resurfacing (apparently when you furnace braze the block EVERY THING moves around and you end up having to completely re-machine the block, top to bottom).
Bottom line, to this point in time I have had no problems what so ever with the sleeved block, and the added security of the stronger bores is comforting.

FYI Darton Sleeves phone # 760-603-9895 SEM Power Train 416-759-9309 ask for John Solecki, tell him that Peter sent ya'

Thanks for that excellent info Peter, I too have been told that sleeving all 8 holes is not recomended assuming it would weaken the block I guess. My question has always been... would good quality sleeves not help strengthen the block by being well secured to the top and bottom of the block. It's really nice to talk too/see some one that has done it and used it instead of just hearing "theorys". Thanks again.

Hi Kaz,
As I mentioned in my last post on this thread, the old practise was to furnace braze the new sleeves into place. Technically the braze joint is actually stronger than the block material itself.
These days they bond, it's cheaper, easier and apparently, there are no problems.
I'm running over 1,000 hp and 1,000 foot/lbs at the flywheel and so far no issues with my motor at all(touch wood). One thing that perhaps I over emphasized is the amount of material the boreing out process removes. The sleeves have a wall thickness of .135" , this means that the block is bored out .125" radially. Boring the average cleveland block out that much will not completely remove the original as cast sleeves, they will be much thinner mind you and depending on the core shift there will even be some holes in the as cast sleeves/bores, however the deck and crank case will still be connected by an unbroken sleeve of cast iron. The Darton slleves are designed to have an interfearence fit of about .003"-.005". You actually have to heat up the block to about 160'F and cool the sleeves in a freezer then press them into place. A special loctite product is used at the ends of the bores to both seal and adhere the sleeves to the block. There are two kinds of sleeves used, those that are plain and those that have a flange at the top, mine have the flange. After all that the block is decked to true up the tops of the sleeves with the block deck.
The Darton sleeves I used are part # 300-060, they have a 3.990" bore (extra materal for machining).

I did confirm the machine and install cost to be $900.00. (including the block decking).

The main reason that I sleeved my block was for reliability. I run a little over 20 lbs of boost with water injection and lots of timing (for a turbo motor). The mean cylinder pressures are at least 200 - 300 psi higher under those conditions. More than one cleveland block has split it's bores when under high boost pressure.....soooo....I sleeved.

Incidently, I have had the motor apart once since the sleeving. One of the ways you can tell if a block is moving around or flexing is by inspecting the main bearings and looking for strange wear patterns. Mine were perfect at that time.

ps some more engine build pix

More great info, thanks. I am wondering now if you O ringed the block and what head gaskets you used?. Reading more about this turbo stuff, it seems I see a lot of guys talking about using a pair of turbos from the thunderbird turbocoupes,(T3's?)on 5.0 mustangs, new ones seem to be quite cheap to buy on ebay. Do you think these would be sutable to use on a 351C/393C ci sized engine?, if I was looking to make the approx power of your engine combo?


Whats your opinon on getting a pair of these?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-T04E-Turbo-charger-stage-3-Turbo-Garret-Style_W0QQitemZ180072779916QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

A pair would struggle to make 550, 600hp. If you're looking for 1000+hp you want a T4 based turbo. Twin 57 or 61mm turbos would work well, with something like an O-trim turbine. The turbo you linked to is a very cheap chinese built piece, they are known to fail. If you want to go cheaper than the big guys(garrett, precision, turbonetics, ITS, majestic), look for a Master Power turbo. They make a 61mm t4 with an O-trim turbine. They'll probably be around $550 a piece. A precision/t-netics/ITS/majestic 61mm would probably be more like 900-1100 a pop, depending on the options. My single 67mm Precision T4 runs around $1400 retail. Honestly a single will be cheaper, there isn't much difference in price between a 57mm turbo and a 76mm turbo. 76 should get you 1000hp. If you want 1000rwhp I'd go for a big name 88mm single turbo, precision has a nice T4 framed 88mm that has been proven to well over 1000hp. They are fairly common so you could probably find a used one for around $1000-1300, depending on how much it has been used. For a cheaper single you can look for large turbos for a deisel, the new S400 turbos are going for around $700 and will do 1200bhp on gasoline. Problem is they're big and they don't like to spool real fast. If its a race car that doesn't make a difference, just put it on the brake and 2step and it'll spool before you leave the line, or hit it with some nitrous. On the street it'll be a bit laggy, but if you've got 393ci you should do alright.

Here are a few PT88s:

T4 flange:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/pt88-turbo-mustang-v8-ford-chevy-precision_W0QQitemZ190068503357QQihZ009QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PRECISION-TURBO-PT88_W0QQitemZ130066571319QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

T6 flange:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Precision-PT88-T6-race-turbo_W0QQitemZ250068739653QQihZ015QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks alot for the crash course in turbos Ben, I got some books now to read up on also. All the diffrent numbers on these things is a bit confusing right now, whats the difference of a T4 vs T6 flange?. Anyway I really got my hart set on a twin turbo setup so that the way I want to go. Right now I don't really know the difference of the chinese stuff but (honestly I don't really have a problem with buying chinese), the pricing on ebay seems all over the place on this stuff?. I got what I think is some neat ideas of what I want to put together looks wise, to me the "look" of the TT setup is just as important(maybe more) as the way it would run. it's for a 99% street car. I looked for 60mm+ and found these... what are your thoughts?

I think this is $600?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Master-Power-T-70-race-turbo-new-1-year-warranty_W0QQitemZ140070927514QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I found this also, looks like a excellent price, I could almost buy 4 for the cost of 2 above... spare parts?lol

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT45-T4-Turbo-Charger-HKS-Big-Turbocharger-T88-T66-T100_W0QQitemZ330070849399QQihZ014QQcategoryZ33742QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I found some, what I think are neat A/W intercoolers and bigger turbos for a great price. I think it would be nice if I could buy all the stuff I need from one place.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAND-NEW-LIQUID-INTERCOOLER-ASSEMBLY-AIR-WATER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ020QQitemZ300066576598

I love the price of this, it's even a better price, hard not to think about it. I think this is what you were suggesting?, think it's safe to buy from this guy?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT45-T4-TURBOCHARGER-HKS-TURBO-CHARGER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQihZ020QQitemZ300066689966

There just seems to be a ton of this stuff and the more I look the more confusing it seems on what to pick. These guys "autopower" seem to have some nice stuff, t61,t70,gt66,gt42, with some good pricing, to me it all looks like nice stuff?

http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZautopowerenterprise

T3, T4, and T6 are different common flange sizes on garrett style turbos. T3 is the smallest of the 3, T6 is the biggest. There is also a T2 flange which is smaller than T3, which you'll see on stock turbo'd 4 cylinders. Pretty much useless on a v8 unless you're doing quad turbos


T6 is what is used on most large turbo deisel engines, detroit diesels and the like.



This is a T6 flanged S400 turbo:


It is difficult to tell the difference between a T6 flange and T3 flange in a picture, since proportionally they are very similar in dimension. A good way to tell is to use the bolt hole size as a reference - the bolt holes will look proportionally smaller on a T6 flange.

Then theres all the oddball flanges, saabs use some triangular flanged turbos, mitsubishis used some wierd trapazoidal shaped flange(you can see it in the first picture, looks like a T4 flange except one bolt hole wandered off). Basically any performance turbo you buy will either use the rectangular T3, T4, or T6 flange. Don't be afraid of the split scroll turbines, they will perform just the same as an undivided scroll. You can block off one half of it and the turbo will spool much quicker, but I'd rather have a properly sized turbo to begin with.

Turbos seem to be too much of a precision item for cheap manufacture. Some people use those real cheap chinese manufacture turbos with no problems, others have minor issues, some have big failures. A turbo shop here in the states has had people bring them brand new chinese turbos to inspect, they say they've never seen one that has come in with what they consider a satisfactory balance job.
I know of some people who have run them successfully, but I don't think I'd run one.

Right again ,Ben .The turbo has to be sized according to the engine displacement and intended usage . I own a '87 T-Bird Turbo Coupe . It was the actual pace car used at the Atlanta International Raceway (now Atlanta Motor Speedway) during the '87 Winston Cup season . The turbo is small , but so is the 4 cylinder engine . It's only 140 cubic inches (2.3 liter). Ford rated this engine at 190 HP and 240 pounds of torque with the 5-speed transmission and 150 HP with the automatic trans . Mine has the manual trans . The '87 and '88 Turbo Coupes have ram air ducts on the hood that feed the intercooler . This allows the factory wastegate to be set at a whopping 17.5 PSI . Pretty good stuff for the 1980's . This is a heavy car but it's very fast . The sales brochure claims 143 MPH . I have verified this way too many times for my own good .

The turbos from a super coupe will be too small to work efficiently at the horse power numbers you're looking for.
Turbos really do have to be matched to the intended application.
As far as "O" ringing is concerned, I've run both with success and with problems.
Currently I am not running "O" rings, just Fel-Pro 1013 head gaskets that have been torqued 4 seperate times (2 times at initial instalation, 2 seperate times after hot cycling).
Let me know if you want my turbo specs, I'm more than happy to share information.

I worked in the Cobra replica industry for nearly 10 years, (CRL, Fargo) I saw allot of very fine replicas including several real Cobras, a friend of mine owns CSX 3012 one of the initial 20 427 comp cars, Yet yours has to be the finest work of art I've ever seen.

All I can say is I have serious Cobra envy tonight. Wow!I'm nearly speachless,

blizzard the drooler.

Hey !! I'm not alone !!
I'm happy to see another Cobra and Cobra owner is taking part in this forum.
Thanks for the compliment.
Hope to hear more about your car.

PJB

hey Cobra guys the only surviving Super Snake dual super charged Cobra is up for auction at Barrett Jackson next weekend (sat) lot # 1301 if you go to the Barrett Jackson sight you can view it under the Shelby bar they have a nice little write up about it saying 800 hp.

And 5.5 million dollars later it could be yours....