Hi everyone.
I bought my HID kit about a year ago before i saw this site otherwise i would never have got what I did.
Here is the problem. When the guy sold me the 9006 supposed 6000k bulbs, he actually sold me the 4300k korean bulbs. Over time they changed from white to green colour. Everytime i hit a bump in the road too the light on the left side would flicker off and on.. I figured it was the ballast as the balast was not totally secure and when bumps were hit i figured it was that.
I returned the bulbs back to the seller and he replaced them this time with the correct 6000k bulbs. Now the problem is this. I took tape and silicone epoxy and secured the ballast so it does not move at all. But still when i hit a bump, the stupid left bulbs flickers off and then on again real fast. The bulb seems to be secure along with the connections.
The second thing is that when i used to light up my 4300k at night, the ballasts would hum for about 20 sec as the bulb warmed up, from dim to bright. With these bulbs, as soon as i activate the light switch, the bulbs come up to full brightness within 4 seconds and the humming goes away within less than 5 sec too. Im wondering if i wired the bulbs wrong or something. I thought it takes at least 20 seconds for full intensity.
And the last but not weirdest thing is this. The seller claimed he sent me the same bulb that i sent back to him, but this one is white/purple whereas the one i sent back was pure white when i bought it. Im wondering if i did wire up something wrong and maybe the ballasts and bulbs arent getting full power? Or maybe the newer bulbs dont have a long warm up time or something.
I am going to be doing a set of projectors soon, but in the meantime this is the way i have gone. The good thing is that my halogen reflectors dont have a lot of hotspots at all and the beam is pretty even. I guess i was fortunate, from what i have read and seen most halogen reflectors suck for HID
I thought he said he sent you the correct 6000k bulbs this time? They will have different start-up and warm-up characteristic than 4300k bulbs, which require different power off the ballasts, so this would result in your ballast supplying the correct power which is why they sound different now. Ballasts supply all their different voltages based on the resistance it senses across the arc in the bulb's gas chamber. When the resistance is higher (cold bulb), the ballast goes into ignite mode and supplies the needed 23kV to jump the gap across the electrodes, then as it warms up and the metals and salts melt and evaporate in the gas chamber, there becomes less resistance between the electrodes and the ballast turns down the voltage gradually based on a resistance to voltage curve.
Also, if you want to pinpoint whether or not your ballast is the cause of the flicker, then put that ballast only (not bulb or any harness components) onto the OTHER side of the car. Then if your flicker problem moves to the other side then problem is in your ballast. If the flicker still stays on the original side it was on before, then your problem is in your power source supplying your ballast on that side (car harness or relay harness, etc). Does that make sense? Also, check to see if the light fixture itself is mounted SOLID in your car, because sometimes a loose fixture can bounce when you go over bumps in the road, and that MAY look like your flicker that you could be describing?
Thats not 100% correct. The strike characteristics of the 4100K/5000K/6000K are all the same and can be interchanged on the same ballast.
The issues above is due to you using non automotive lamp and electronics. There are literally 1000's of HID lamps the world over from 1.2 watts all the way to 100,000 watts. The problem with the asian product is that they are poor quality and designed for other applications not for automotive. Therefore they are or will all be effected by temperature, vibration, voltage etc. The Asian lamps use not auto product technology as its cheaper and easier and the customer does not see naything other than the price.
Your only real solution is buy automotive product designed solely for that application
Nick
www.autolamps-online.com
I live in a place full of bumpy roads. Slight flickering in hid bulbs is completely normal. Not a full turnoff, just slight flicker when going over rocks or bumps. It happens in Hella micro xenon de lights, it happens in OEM X5 hella lamp fixtures. All genuine equimpent.
Nick,
Are you sure? Because I specifically remember that when I had my Ultinons (purshased from you), that they seemed to start up and warm up a lot different than my standard 4100k Philips bulbs. Now I don't remember if the ballasts sounded different during full-warm run mode, but I know the ballasts would sound like they were in normal warm run mode a lot sooner after cold startup than my 4100k bulbs did. My 4100k bulbs always took longer before they would reach full brightness (for the salts to melt).
Maybe you can't go by what the book sais, because I've seen the difference in real world use. Just like how Osram/Sylvania advertise similar color temp as Philips, but the real world color winds up being a lot different during actual use. Sometimes you need to just scrap what the book sais?
Cant disagree with any of this and I can only go with what the labs and test equipment say.
In general it did make me smile because you and I have read so many mails on these sorts of topics. I and I am sure yourself have lost count on how many times one persons interpretation of something is different to another. We have 100's of mails a day when we sell the same product and some mails say they are too blue and not bright enough and others the opposite. Same product, same car.
The only way is to conduct trials of any description in controlled environment with calibrated equipment but remember there is a wide tolerance on discharge technology, even for Philips and Osram. That maybe the reason for your experiences.
The one thing I would say on the above is that IF your lamps are really flickering ie On and Off however quickly (X5) get them checked as this is not correct and will kill both the lamp and ballast!!
"The one thing I would say on the above is that IF your lamps are really flickering ie On and Off however quickly (X5) get them checked as this is not correct and will kill both the lamp and ballast!!"
Nick, the X5 with OEM xenon headlamps flickerswhen going over rocky roads. The bulbs never turn off, but you can appreciate the flickering. The factory hella micro xenon DE kit with genuine philips bulbs flicker on the the same road and are installed in the same car.
YOUR H1 kit that I bought from autolamps with genuine everything FLICKERS in the same fashion in the same road different car. IS it not normal given my experience that it is normal for this equipment to flicker in this type of road ? Or maybe you guys have not driven enough over this type of road as I have? Everything is installed correctly, OEM X5, your ballasts to metal bases in the car with the adhesive you provide, and I have not complained to you or anybody, just have taken it for normal for a gas capsule to behave that way over vibrating bumps. I will probably have to live with a shorter life for my components given those bumpy roads but such is the price of having HID in that type of environment.
The real issue I guess is the term flicker. If the lamps are really turning on and off as opposed to just bouncing around this is a sign of lack of continuity in the electrical circuit, be it HT or not. I sympathise that it is difficult to tell when you are driving. I suspect as you have a number of OE high quality products what you are seeing is the plasma arc being moved by the G-Force exerted on it while driving. This will cause the beam pattern to deform and change. I suspect it is not all 3 system turning on and off. In such a senario the Tungsten filament may also move but less so due to its mass and short length but in the end the filamant would fail. At least with the arc as long as it stays on this 'g-force' should not be negative to the life. I would get someone outside of the car to get there view when you are driving towards the however suspect even if it is flickering the frequency may be hard to detect
Nick, if the lamps were turning on and off I would notice the bright yellow turnon typical of a 4100K in a hot restrike. I don't think this is the case, this is very noticeable when switching my DE xenons on and off with a few seconds interval like Josch does with his. But you do see the variance in the beam pattern as you go over vibrating bumps or rocks. As the shocks in the car absorb those bumps I can definitely see the alteration in the beam vibrating. I don't know if it is the arc inside the capsule that moves without being interrupted (is this even possible???).
I don't even know if the on-off action is needed to deteriorate the lamp and or ballast life. If your H4 hylow kit was modified from the solenoid to the clasper type due to shorter lamp life, it would seem logical that vibration could have the same ill effects on the lamps. Luckily I haven't had one fail yet.
What potentially your could get is a very short break of current which would not mean a hot restrike but the arc is terminated so quickly that the internal capsule temperature and pressure does not really change so the arc returns in the same stable condition. This would negate the restrike sequence you have described
The reality is that the Tungsten filament is flat and the plasma arc is curved. It is only curved due to gravity !!. Secondly there are what are generically Bi-Xenon systems that reposition the arc and as such the focal characteristics of the lamp by a magnetic field.
I suspect in the end you are much better off with the discharge systen over the more conventional halogen as long as you have no electrical connection issues
Does the arc really move? I'm thinking that electric forces play a much greater role than gravitational forces do for the HID arc. I don't think I've noticed my beam pattern changing when going over a bumpy road, maybe it's because he has projectors that make a sharp cutoff. The sharp cutoff bouncing up and down could make it look like it's 'flickering'.
When I first did retro on my truck with reflector HID, my bulb shields were really heavy and my bulbs weren't fastened in there very tight at first. So whenever I went over harsh bumps in the road, I would see a flicker in the beams on both sides. Then when I put a little glue-tack in 2 places on the base to hold it in tight so the bulb couldn't vibrate anymore, then my lights wouldn't flicker anymore.
Also, a loose light fixture in the aiming mounts can also bounce and vibrate around over bumps- Not to be overlooked as a potential source for flicker problem as well.
I just took a hard look at my H1 kit from Nick in my hella H1 projectors. Very slight flicker and since these projectors are halogen projectors, I get this funnel effect hotspot, which as far as I could tell did not displace at all. This means the projectors are fixed well in place tightly, and that the arc moving inside the gas capsule is probably the flicker I see. I don't think it will ruin my ballasts but may shorten lamp life???
I have a slight sjake in my H7 Hella 90mm with D2S bulbs as well. My Tokigo shocks in my SHO is pretty hard wich causes most of these beam shakes. Combined with bad Toronto streets, makes it shake from time to time. In my mind flicker means that it temporarily turns off, but it doesn't, so I use that word shake. As u guys describe as well, it is only noticable 10-20meters in front of car. Cutoff line is not shaking.
This message has been edited by herman_sho on Oct 23, 2003 10:13 PM
