# Hermans Sidemarker LED project - more pics

December 12 2003 at 8:20 PM

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I used to have a link to for small bulbs.... cant find it now. How many avarage lm can be expected from a 5W incadesent bulb?

 This message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 29, 2003 6:27 PMThis message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 29, 2003 6:23 PMThis message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 14, 2003 10:19 PMThis message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 12, 2003 8:20 PM

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# Re: how many lumens on a 5W?

December 12 2003, 10:39 PM
 There's this: http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/lights/signal_bulbs/signal_bulbs.html Amps to Watts? There's this: http://www.angelfire.com/pa/baconbacon/page2.html
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herman
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# Re: Re: how many lumens on a 5W?

December 12 2003, 10:57 PM
 I have 194 bulb in my Sable sidemarker. 12volts at 0.27amps gives 3.2Watts. Which means they give 2 mscd, which is 2 x 12.57 => 25.4 lm. 25.4 lm sounds awfully much for a 3.2W bulb! Is this coreect??
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# Re: Re: Re: how many lumens on a 5W?

December 12 2003, 11:20 PM

Correct, 2 MSCP for a 194 (clear) ... 2MSCP x 4 x pi for a general calculation of total luminous flux

see:

http://www.sylvaniaautocatalog.com/sylvania/miniinc.asp

select T-3 1/4 for the 194 bulb.

Any views expressed here are soley the opinions of the author and are not necessarily the opinions of my employer.

 This message has been edited by NavanJohnson on Dec 12, 2003 11:34 PMThis message has been edited by NavanJohnson on Dec 12, 2003 11:32 PM

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herman
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# Re: Re: Re: Re: how many lumens on a 5W?

December 13 2003, 9:15 AM
 So a 194NA (amber version) with 3.8W has 1.5 mscd. Which equates to 18.8 lm. This would require 9-14 amber Lumileds Superflux or 1 amber Lumiled Star. They would both draw 1W, which would give same amount of light as the 194NA. The LEDs would draw 74% less power.
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# Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how many lumens on a 5W?

December 13 2003, 9:34 AM
 ^What's your project? I'm going to do an LED project soon...or at least start my R&D. Do LED foglights seem feasable? I want something different to bolster my HID beam pattern. I want a true amber.
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EunosTT

# Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how many lumens on a 5W?

December 13 2003, 5:16 PM
 I think it is pretty obvious what Herman is up to. Once you have HID, LED conversion is next. Can't stop tinkering with lights...
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herman
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# Re: Sidemarker

December 14 2003, 9:58 PM

yes, I am considering fixing up the sidemarkers with some amber superflux. Parts cost should be minimal. Unfortunatly, blacking current sidemarker glass on inside is time consuming....

You can see my headlight on the left, then amber sidemarker, followed by constant 27W illumination triggered by turn signal, then an amber reflector. I added some vinyl tape to illustrate inside blacking. Any other simple(r) ideas?

 This message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 14, 2003 10:04 PMThis message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 14, 2003 9:59 PM

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Navan Johnson

# Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: how many lumens on a 5W?

December 20 2003, 10:30 PM
 Actually, for a sidemarker function, I would look more at intensities rather than total flux. The intensities required for a SAE sidemarker function are very low (0.62 cd), with rather large solid angle requirements. Very often, a sidemarker will not even use a reflector, because direct filament light in the prescribed direction fulfills the regs. So, it really depends on your goal. If your goal is to replace what you have with LED, and not significantly change the appearance or function, your biggest challenge will be directing the light correctly, and will not be getting sufficient total light output. As a result, you may find that you need fewer LED's.Any views expressed here are soley the opinions of the author and are not necessarily the opinions of my employer.
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herman
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# Re: Major goal

December 20 2003, 11:53 PM

The 0.62cd explains why most aftermarked LED marker lamps have 2 x 5mm LED in them. It doesnt take much to cover that.

Major goal was more the fun of trying it, and to transform the white hue on the stock sidemarkers to black. I ended up using 9 amber Lumileds superflux with home made heatsinks. Opening angle is 70-100 degrees on the ones I selected, so spread is very wide. The outer lens make it look like there is 25 LEDs in there. It looks like a xmas tree! (Hey, I even matched the season in here) Wife has run away with my Nikon Digital, but I have done soem shots with the \$40 Creative Digicam. Let me know if anyone interested in seeing. Its amazing how u get used to a high quaity camera, this Creative Cam is simply not able to capture correct colors. I am spoiled.

 This message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 21, 2003 12:01 AMThis message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 21, 2003 12:00 AMThis message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 20, 2003 11:59 PMThis message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 20, 2003 11:56 PM

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herman
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# pic

December 21 2003, 9:12 PM
 Sorry for the crappy pic. The superflux LEDs do not leak that much light backwords as it looks like... Note the copper sheet "heat sink" soldered to negative terminal, the only way to run them with with more than 20 mA. I run them at 40mA now and they do heat up my fingers tips slightly.
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EunosTT

# Re: pic

December 22 2003, 11:21 PM
 Hey Herman, Did you get your Lumileds from FutureElectronics? How much did they cost if you do not mind telling?
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herman
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# Re: Re: pic

December 23 2003, 12:37 AM

Yes, Future electronics. Cost me around \$40 for a tube of 60. Add express shipping (only option). I have quite a few leftovers. Let me know if u want some ambers.

 This message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 23, 2003 12:38 AM

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# Re: Re: Re: pic

December 24 2003, 12:47 AM
 Thanks Herman, I thought of using three on the inside of my headlight as a sidemarker. I do not have front sidemarkers because of a JDM bumper. So I started learning and reading bunch of info on lumileds site, etc. Almost figured it out. Then I thought, I better check my headlight for placement and found out it would never point to the side, just a 45 degree angle. I wanted them flush. So, I am disappointed, it will not work. I was really gonna take you up on your offer. Sorry.
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# Re: pic

December 29 2003, 3:46 PM
 Herman, are you going to paint the reflector, or leave it chrome? I have been going over new side markers in my mind for when I do my projectors and I thought about misting the stock reflector with black paint. My other thought was to remove the stock lens and put individual lenses on the LEDs, and have a clear lense over the side marker.
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herman
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# Re: Re: pic

December 29 2003, 6:21 PM
 There is quite a big grrove at the edges all the way around, which I filled with paint. Looks really good, eh? Note that these are new sidemarkers from the Ford stealer. No dull aftermaked looking here. I really wonder why noone has done this before. All 1994-95 SHOs does not have any chrome trim, so this matches great. The LEDs are in, but u cant see them behind the textured lens.
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NavanJohnson

# Re: Re: Major goal

December 30 2003, 4:37 PM
 I'll be interested to know how well your home made heat sink works. I guess it depends on the environment around the lamp, but the key to long life of the LED is the thermal treatment. It certainly looks like you've given the right effort. Let us know if you find any early failures!Any views expressed here are soley the opinions of the author and are not necessarily the opinions of my employer.
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herman
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# Re: Thermal management

December 30 2003, 8:07 PM

Lumiled requirement is 25 square millimeter at negative terminal. I assume this is at room temperature and no incapsulation.
I'd say my 100 sq. mm heat sinks works pretty well. In 23 degrees Celsius ambient temperature the heat sink are sligtly warmer than my finger tips - I guess 40-50 degrees Celsius. In my project, where leds, wires, heat sinks, are covered in JB Weld for weather proofing, I did not want to use minimum requirements. It was multiplied by 4 which gave me the 100 sq. mm. (The resistor in the picture is not what I am using as current limiter - that was only for testing from a lab power supply)

 This message has been edited by herman_sho on Dec 30, 2003 8:12 PM

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# Re: Re: Thermal management

December 30 2003, 8:14 PM

That 1/4 Watt resistor is not going to last long because of the heating. I would used a 3 watts metal oxide resistor. Here is an example of it http://www.acurainspired.com/gallery/showpic.php?uuid=112&aid=780&pid=22171

hchhon

 This message has been edited by hchhon on Dec 30, 2003 8:16 PM

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Forum Owner

# Re: Re: Re: Thermal management

December 30 2003, 8:28 PM
 Very true. Intention of the picture was to show the LED and cooling aid, not the resistor and its abilty to cope with the heat.
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# Re: Hermans Sidemarker LED project - more pics

December 30 2003, 9:02 PM
 I built an LED sidemarker about 8 months ago using Lumileds Superflux Amber LEDs. It has worked for me perfectly. I am using 16 for each side. Here are a few pics. [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img]
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herman
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# Re: Re: Hermans Sidemarker LED project - more pics

December 30 2003, 9:49 PM
 You are not running them at 70mA either, are you? Else they would have been intense...
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herman
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# Mine looks pretty intense too...

December 30 2003, 9:55 PM
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# Re: Mine looks pretty intense too...

January 14 2004, 5:41 PM
 Herman, I've been working on something similar, but I wanted to tint the lense completely along with the LEDs, to match the blacked out headlamps that I'll have. I melted 2 different housings though. 350F for 5 minutes, with the oven off is too hot for the side markers, propping the door open with a wooden spoon and leaving them in for only 4 minutes did the trick. But now I can't get the lights back together. 4 minutes isn't getting the sealant hot enough to get the lenses to stay together. Did you remove the lenses to install your LEDs and use the oven to get them back together? If so what were your oven settings and times? Also I might be interested in taking up your offer to purchase some of your Superflux LEDs, do you have enough to do another set of sidemarkers?
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herman
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# Re: Re: Mine looks pretty intense too...

January 14 2004, 9:10 PM

I did not use oven trick on mine. My headlamps are totally blacked out as well, but I found out as long as it is framed in black it looks good. I simply painted around the edges. I had some issues getting my proven good old black Dupli color to stick to plastic, even after sanding. Its probably because I didn't use primer, which I always have used before. Hopefully I am able to find a color matching primer. Its actually the primer that will show from the outside. Thats the thing! (Comments wanted!!!)

Even the loose "moulding" around sidemarker needs a blackening. Having it white just looks bad. I am ccurrently experimenting with some vinyl paint. Not sure if it will stick enough. If material IS silicone based, well there is not much hope...or is it???

I have around 25 left of those amber LEDs. Let me know when whenever u are ready to make deal.

 This message has been edited by herman_sho on Jan 14, 2004 9:14 PM

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