I was wondering if you all could lend some info or advice.
A little while back, i started a clear tail light project on my 98 mystique, all is well with the project, but due to the fact that they will now be clear, i need to explore some different options for lighting; so i'm turning to LEDs.
I've reasearched a bit, and come to the conclusion that i wan't to go with some pre-made truck LED brake lamps (S/T/T in one unit preferrably).
Now since they will be clear, I can't use any red lenses when i graft them to the back of my tails, which would mean that i would have to remove the red lense from any of the pre-made units.
I've reasearched a few lamps so far, and i was wondering if any of you could share some insight or info with me regarding which would be my best choice.
I'v found these, which seem nice, 56 LEDs, exdelayed has 2 per lamp in his tails, and seems happy with them:
With these, i would be able to keep the lense, so i'm thinking the light would be spread better. Is anyone familiar with these? Or with the requirements of FMVSS108 and ECE "E", i searched for FMSS108, and came up with some gigantic document.
Well, i ended up getting the 56 LED Maxxima units, hopefully one unit per lamp will be sufficient. I went with the 56 LED unit because i wanted a more even spread of light versus 13 LEDs or something similar.
FYI, i found a site that sells them at quite a reasonable price: www.leetransport.com
They charge $22 per unit, but don't list shipping even after you've bought them, so i called and they said FedEx ground would be like $6 from S. Carolina to Michigan.
I'll try to update with my progress as the project comes together.
Good luck with your project. I've done a similar conversion to my 1994 Miata. I was crazy enough to make my own fixtures and LED clusters, though, which I wouldn't recommend to anyone!
I understand your desire to keep the lamps completely clear, but don't be so quick to remove the red reflectors. While I can't find the relevant information right now (DOT website sucks), I'm fairly confident that said reflectors are legally required for all rear-mounted vehicle lamps. I realize that your lamps won't be DOT approved to begin with, but the lack of red reflectors will both call attention to this as well as present a safety hazard.
In the design of my lamps, I incorporated a single red reflector into each fixture in the way that I found to be least obtrusive. Obviously the specifics of where to mount the reflector(s) will differ according to overall design. My point is only that this is rather easily achieved with a bit of planning.
Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me directly or via the forum. I'll take a look at the lamps on my friend's Mystique when I see him next and let you know if doing so sparks any ideas.
The lamps have been delivered and i gotta say that i'm quite happy with them. When only the regular running lights are on, output is similar to incandescent--and for stop/turn, i'm happy to say that output is significantly better. I got the lamps units all apart and, as exdelayed told me in the past, they do have surge protection circuitry built in, which is pretty cool.
Straylight,
Ya, thanks for the good wishes, and i am familiar with the neccesity of a red reflector to stay legal. And for the time being i have bought red reflective tape that i will be mounting low on the bumper; if you look at a mystique, there's a little lip on the bottom of the bumper that the tape will fit nicely on. That is my solution until i figure something better out.
If you want, you can see pics in my album here (most recent pics on top):
Oh, and as you'll see from those pics, there is a clear reflector that still exists in the clear lense...it wraps around the bottom and extends to the sides.
I'm not done yet. I have to clear coat the other lamp and seal the front, then mount the LEDs in both lamps, then finally seal them both from the back.
This semester has been crazy, so i barely get to work on them......but i'll be sure to post pics when i'm done.
With the lens/housing on the diameter is 4",how much smaller did the assembly get (diameter) once you took it apart? How did you disassemble them,Dremel?
I used a thin hacksaw to get the lense off of the first one since i didn't know what to expect; but yes, if you're careful, and make sure the cutting bit doesn't get too far in, a dremel should be ok as well....make sure you don't get too close to the LEDs with the dremel though.
This message has been edited by amarv12 on Nov 4, 2004 9:39 PM
That setup looks familiar! I used a Dremil when I popped mine apart. Quite simple, just watched through the lens to make sure I wasnt getting close to the LEDs.
Alright, some updates, i did finish one of the lamps completely, all sealed up and solid.
Here's some pics of how i mounted stuff:
That's 80 LEDs per lamp.
The following are some pics on the car, LED vs. Incandescent. LEDs on the left, incandescent on the right. As you can see, the LEDs are a much more vivid deeper red.
Running lamps:
With the brakes on (the third brake lamp is lit using LEDs as well):
I'm quite happy so far, all i gotta do is finish up the other lamp, swap the flasher relay, then i'm done. I'll get some daytime pics once finished.
Thats great results!
BTW... Then maxima truck modules...
Are the LEDs 5mm diameter?
What is the approximate opening angle on them?
I have been wondering about the electrical curcuit...
I assume there is 14 branches, each consisting of one serial resistor and 4 LEDs, right?
I assume the liitle larger resistor (220ohms) forms the current reduction enough for low intensity marker lamp function (equvivlent ~5W incadscent bulb).
I Assume one of the diodes is a serial diode, or maybe both of them are, one for high intensity, other for low intensty? If thats the case, then it does not have a transient diode protection.
Umm heh, i'll try to answer your questions as best as possible...
Yes the LEDs are 5mm. They have a slight red tint to the domes, and the domes have a slightly sharp point.
For the opening angle i'm not too sure, i imagine not that wide. The red lenses they came with had some mild fluting, i'm not worried because my lamps have fluting in the lense as well.
Also with my setup, if you look at the ground in the last pic of my previous post, you can see that the light is spread pretty wide...a good deal wider than the incandescent. That little matrix bulb that i'm using only comes on with stop/turn, and it helps to spread light sideways.
As for the electrical stuff, i'm not that knowledgeable yet, sorry.
If you look at the third pic from my last post, there's a little plastic housing with a connector on top, i assume the protection circuit is in there; there's one diode that i can see, the rest is covered. I tried to open it up, but it was glued tight and i didn't want to screw it up, so after some unsuccessful prying, i gave up.
For the schematic, i'm not sure i even know how to draw one up properly; hopefully these pics help:
Two red reflectors are required on the rear. Two red reflectors are required on the side at the rear. Two red side marker lamps are required on the side at the rear.
Yes, the DOT webside is not that clear, especially for vehicle owners wanting to design and build their own lamps. That is not something that was ever contemplated nor condoned.
Here is a good reference. The requirement for the kinds and locations of lamps are listed here. The poster for "Trucks, Buses, and MPVs" has requirements that are identical for cars, puck-ups and SUVs, except that these do not need clearance and identification lamps.
These requirements are taken from Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, "Lamps, reflective devices and associated equipment." That is part of the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49 Transportation, Part 571 Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Section 108.
I believe that the lack of intensity in sunlight is due largely to the fluted lenses on your taillights. They appear to be dispersing light entirely too much. A clear acrylic lens would probably help a lot and can be easily made at home.
-straylight-
This message has been edited by ono-sendai on Nov 15, 2004 9:35 AM
I was thinking more that since the lense is now clear, all the ambient light is now coming into the lamp, and since it is pretty bright, it is reflecting back from inside the lamp (since it's all white/reflective) and making the LEDs appear less bright....does this sound correct?
Previously on my stock units (and the maxxima units) when there was a red lense present, only red light was allowed to come in.
Maybe i gotta hack them apart again and paint the insides black?
The daytime performance leaves much to be desired, which sucks after all this work.
Also the problems with me making the lense completely clear is 1) the stuff that i'm hiding inside doesn't look that great, so, the harder it is to see, the better; and 2) i would have thought it would be pretty tough to match the curvature of the stock lenses...how would one do such a thing at home?
The units that he and I used had fluted lens on them. By making a clear lens, it wouldnt be dispersing the light enough and his viewing angle would be very poor (I tested it when I built mine, same lamps). Leaving the OEM piece intact he is at least making an attempt to disperse the light somewhat.
This is part of the reason I used two assemblies per side. The outer units are angled upwards and outwards slightly to help cover some of the area the first unit misses.
