Hi All

I posted in the Old Herb Books thread earlier about a Victorian book called 'Valuable Herbal Prescriptions' reading it I can across ingredients and things I'd never heard of before, some of them are "Child's Powder", "Child's Cordial" and "Germe Syrup" which the book discusses but does not give prescriptions for. It made me wonder if anyone would have any idea what any of the above were or what went in them?

It also brought to mind a conversation I had at one of Sarah Head's wonderful workshops back in November, where some of us chatted about old remedies that our Mum's used to make us take. The subject of cloves for toothache, warm olive oil for earache and Indian brandy for period pain came up. I recall my Mum offering me Indian Brandy to help ease my period pain as a young girl. A couple of the younger people at the workshop didn't know what it was, it turns out you can still get it.
I found some in the B.P. products in the chemist made by Thornton + Ross, only its spelt Indian Brandee, my memories were correct, it smells and tastes like fisherman's friend!!! I'd love to know how the original recipe was made as this modern version has ethanol, sucrose, potassium chloride and alcohol in it!

It contains rhubarb tincture and capsicum tincture as well as the nasty stuff listed above. A member of my family pointed out that it was used for easing flatulence and colic (which is what it says on the bottle) no mention of period pain!
Just looking at capsicum's properties it’s used to help relieve muscle soreness and has analgesic and warming properties, all good things when you have bad period pain! But the rhubarb, acts as a laxative and as the family member who wishes to remain nameless will testify, Indian Brandee does indeed help when you're having trouble going to the loo normally! So why did it work on period pain without causing me to rush to the loo after taking it as a teenager?!

All this made me curious about old remedies that others may have been given or that their grandparents/parents swore by and what they were? I'm particularly interested in herb based remedies, but it would be interesting to hear any cures. I can recall Junior Aspirin (they tasted orangey and were really tiny) and I recall my Grandad talking about 'Little Imps' although I have no idea what they were or used for, unless I misunderstood him and Grandad was actually away with the fairies lol! Does anybody remember any of these remedies or others?

Debs

I remember little imps. They were tiny cushion shapes confection, a little like fisherman's friends, but ferociously hot. I think they were intended to be for chesty coughs. Certainly, my grandfarther would have them about his person during the winter. I would imagin they contained capsicum as well.

Jenny

I qualified as a pharmacist many moons ago. We used to make “Indian Brandee”. It had to be called "brandee" because it didn’t contain brandy. I can’t remember the exact formula, but it contained Spirit of Nitrous Aether, which was the nasty, but had a lovely apple-like odour. It also had Tincture of Capsicum and Tincture of Rhubarb Compound. The tincture of Capsicum would be warming and Chinese Rhubarb is an excellent remedy as in small doses it is more astringent and prevents diarrhoea and in larger doses is mildly laxative. The compound tincture of rhubarb also contains cardamom and coriander. It definitely only contained three "tinctures". My siblings and I, when young, were given Mist Rhei Co for any stomach upset. It contained ginger tincture, which again was warming and comforting.

The Child’s Powder is before my time…probably a teething powder. Teething powders contained such horrors as mercury.

Imps came in little tins and were liquorice and menthol pellets, which were sucked for tickly coughs. They were cusion shaped as Jenny says.

Audrey

Hi Audrey

Thanks for the Indian Brandee info, the child powders could be teething powder, I remember my Mum giving the youngsters fennings 'cooling' powders when they were teething. I think they contained paracetemol but not sure what else. I'm curious, what does the Mist stand for in the remedy you were given as a child? I'm guessing its a pharmacy abbreviation, but for what? Is the Rhei something to do with rhubarb? Pardon my ignorance.

Thanks to you both for the little imps info, were they in a little red, white and black tin with a red imp on the front?

Debs

[edited to add the little imp question]

Hi Debs,
Mist was mixture and Rhei is the abbreviation for rhubarb. We dispensed many mixtures in the early days. A most popular mixture was Mist Pot Brom and Val. The good herbal remedy like valerian was always mixed with something noxious like potassium bromide. The dispensary use to stink of valerian.

Your memory of the Imps tin sounds right. There were other makes as well. One I remember was Nigroids.

Junior aspirin went out a couple of decades ago, as aspirin was banned for under twelves....rare chance of Reye's disease.

best wishes, Audrey

Imps are still available and contain liquorice extract 76%, menthol and capsicum as well as assorted bulking agents plus.....................

saccharin

Hi Si,
I wonder why they add saccharin? Liquorice is sweet.

Audrey

Hello,

Well remember Little Imps. We use to buy them and eat them with relish as they were one of the few things you could get that was 'off ration'. Don't remember any dire consequencies however, probably because we were country kids who ate lots of green apples when available, scrumped what ever fruit was in season and relished 'bread and cheese'( the new leaves of hawthorne, and also 'sour sods'- sorrel to the better educated. Never could reason out why we were dosed with Syrup of Figs every Friday. Yuk!

Jane

Hi Jane

Your memories reminded me of several stories. One was a very sad one from the novelist MM Kaye. Whilst in India she had a psychopathic nanny who used to give her a large dose of syrup of figs every morning then take her for an hour's walk - chastising her when she then had "accidents". Apparently the damage done to her bowel function through years of this abuse lasted all her life.

The second story was a happy one. When my mother in law went into hospital to have her two hip replacements, she took a supply of ripe figs with her and never had any problems with constipation despite the morphine based painkillers and her inactivity. I can't even eat half a fig without dire consequences, which is a shame, because my mother has a fig tree!

Several years ago when I was training as a counsellor, I was attached to an older adults mental health team for six months. One of my "patients" was an elderly gentleman with constant aches and pains from post polio syndrome. One time I visited him in a convalescent hospital and found him suffering dreadfully from constipation. Despite wearing my "counselling hat", I suggested he might like to ask his family to bring him some fresh figs to eat. His daughter rang me some time later to ask whether bananas would be as helpful!

I keep thinking that one day I should get around to making some "syrup of figs" on a "just in case" basis!

Sarah

Hello Sarah,

That reminded me of when I was in hospital years ago for removal of my spleen, with the usual dire gastic consequencies. Being rather larger than a stick insect I was asked if I would like diet food, O.K I said. I always try to be helpful. The next meal instead of the usual stodge I was presented with a bowl of prunes and custard. Deep joy. I was sitting with a group of similarly stricken invalids, "PRUNES! How come you get them and we don't?" Never thought I would be the object of such envy over a bowl of stewed prunes. Being unable to eat all of them the rest disappeared in a trice.

Jane

Hi Jane

As part of my work, I have written a booklet about what to do when you're in hospital. Although I have a section on infection control, I have shied away from dietary advice. Maybe I should add in a paragraph on "Don't forget to take your prunes and figs with you".

Happy New Year

Sarah

Hello Sarah,

Sounds like a good idea. My husband swore by lots of orange juice. I suppose it depends on your own constitution what suits you best but the idea of a nurse or volunteer going round with a large spoon, dishing out doses of 'jallop' conjures up pictures of the Carry on films.

Happy New Year to one and all.

Jane

A very happy New Year to all Forum contributors.

I believe Potters still produce Indian Brandee.Hopefully their formula would be more acceptable than the Thornton Ross one.

Kevin

Hi Kevin

Didn't know about Potter's making Indian Brandee, will search some out tomorrow. Their IB has ginger tincture in as well as the capsicum and rhubarb. Its available on Potter's online shop so if I can't find it elsewhere I'll be able to get some from there. Be interesting to compare the smell and taste of the Potter's and Thronton Ross IB's. Thanks for the heads up and happy new year to you also

Potters Indian Brandy - Tincture Capsicum BPC 0.07ml; Strong Ginger Tincture BP 0.045ml; Co. Rhubarb Tincture BP 0.57ml. Chloroform, Ether Solvant, Rectified Spirit, Chloroform Spirit, Syrup and Water

Debs

 

Reading the posts about old herbal remedies prompted me to re-read "The Herb Garden " by Mary Thorne Quelch.She was a retired Nurse who lived in the New Forest area and in the late 1940's wrote 4 books on herbalism.This particular work contains a lot of folklore and old remedies and gives a good picture of Britain during the war/post war period of rationing and shortages of basic foods.It is sometimes available on Amazon.

it also prompted me to think when did I first become aware of herbs,quite early in life probably early 1950's.Living then in Fulham,London SW,the local Chemist always had on the counter a large jar of "Herbal Smoking Mixture",this was sold loose by weight and at the time had a reputation of being good for bronchitis and asthma.The main ingreient was coltsfoot and the manufacturers,Heath&Heather.
Kevin

Hi Kevin

What I coincidence that you mention Mary Thorne Quelch and Heath & Heather in the same post. I picked up a copy of 'Herbs & how to know them' by MTQ whilst out at an antiques shop over Xmas. I'd never heard of her before but was intrigued to see that the illustrations in the book were by Mildred E. Eldridge, the same lady that did the illustrations for Hilda Leyel, and also for Walter De La Mare, he of "Speak not, whisper not, here bloweth thyme and bergamot..." fame.

After all her success as an artist, Ms Eldrige married the Welsh poet R S Thomas in 1940 and didn't seem to do much after that art wise. I'll be keeping my eye out for the other books by MTQ as the first one I have is fascinating and yours sounds just as good. It's interesting to me to read these books to see what people used in days gone by, it helps you see how attitudes have changed, and it's interesting to see the change in the methods and the herbs recommended then, as to now.

For anyone else interested in Mary Thorne Quelch's other book titles, as well as the two Kevin and I mentioned, she also wrote 'Herbs For Daily Use' and 'Herbal Remedies'.

At the same antique shop I picked up two old Heath & Heather catalogue's one from 1926, the other from 1935, I'd only ever associated Heath & Heather with the health food trade and their herb tea range in particular. Being a curious soul I decided to do some research on H & H and discovered that despite the fact that H & H brand teas are still being sold, the company no longer exists, the Typhoo group of companies have the teas now, which now I know that fact coincides with the fact that after years of you only getting an oooo with typhoo, they suddenly starting selling their own range of herb teas.

I further discovered that Samuel Ryder started Heath and Heather: The Herb Specialists in St Albans in 1920.  His was the man who presented the Ryder Cup golfing trophy to the world.  From one shop in St Albans his family business expanded to a grand 45 health food stores by the 1960s. The Heath and Heather chain was eventually bought out in 1968 and merged with a chain of 'Realfood' shops which were then re-named Holland & Barrett. Incidentally H & H also own the 'Naturesway' chain of health food stores. Small world and all that huh?

Debs

Hello Debs,

All the talk of rhubarb etc. reminds me of Parson Woodforde. He suffering greatly after one of those large 18th centruy meals, complaining that" Mince Pie rose oft when in bed" so he took a dose of rhubarb. I forget what the effect was, cann't look it up as my copy of his diary is with a friend round the village at the moment. On other occasions he took a dose of rhubarb on retiring, not surprising when you read what was consumed.

Jane

Hi Debs,

I am sure you enjoyed the old Heath&Heather catalogues.At one stage they had quite a chain of shops throughout England plus a substantial number of stockists and made a very wide range of herbal products,many of which could not be sold nowadays[Male Fern oil capsules for tapeworms and the like].

Joan Pyder took over the business and in fact she wrote a couple of books herself.
Kevin

I have recently beenre-reading "Saturday Night and Sunday Morning" by Alan Sillitoe,a classic tale of life in Nottingham in the 1950's.Indian Brandy as a remedy for digestive upsets[hangovers included!]is referred to twice in the book.

"Bilious troubles" she said,a common label given to all such complaints.A common cure was to fetch sixpennyworth of Indian brandy from the shop across the street."
Kevin

Been looking for this on net for months now, its seems to have totally vanished from planet earth. No stock from ANY manufacturer anywhere!!! No expanations, nothing, its just gone. it works and my family have sworn by it for years.
Andy

On a recent visit to England I saw Bell's Indian Brandee on sale.Unfortunately I have not been able to trace a website for Bell's,a firm of manufacturing chemists based in Southport.Potter's Indian Brandee has been discontinued.

I can only suggest you send an enquiry to Baldwin's,they will surely know if it is still being made.And yes,it works.

Kevin