Follow the link below to read the full article, but the author of the BBC news report below quotes from Jenny's latest news item on our site in refernce to the article Cancer fear over herb used to help relieve hot flushes' Daily Mail Monday November 10th 2008 
www.herbsociety.org.uk/current-news.htm for those that haven't seen it yet.

There is no convincing evidence that herbal remedies commonly taken to relieve troublesome menopausal symptoms actually work, say experts.

And some 'natural' treatments, like black cohosh, can cause serious harm, says the Drugs and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB).

But herbalists said a lack of proof did not mean the treatments lacked effect.

Polls suggest 40% of UK women have used complementary and alternative therapies for their menopausal symptoms.

Common remedies include red clover, Dong quai and evening primrose oil.

Others include ginseng, wild yam extract, chaste tree, hops, sage leaf, and kava kava.

A lack of evidence does not necessarily mean a lack of effect Jenny Jones of the Herb Society

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7824864.stm>

Ok, I'm going to have a rant at a headline now. Excuse me, but I thought the menapause was a physiological change experienced by women, not a disease to be "cured". Like so many "things" apertaining to women, it has been created, diagnosed and "treated" by men either by shutting women away as total invalids for several years or dosing them with drugs which may, in some cases, cause more problems than they had to start with. (And don't get me started on what dear Dr Maudseley did to women who joined the Spiritualist church in Victorian times and what his medical followers are still doing in the name of research!)

I am currently getting to the stage where if I see another advert with a beaming Jane Fonda or other aging actresses speaking glowing reports about their favourite anti-wrinkle/firming cream "because you're worth it", I may well start throwing large objects at the TV set.

Germaine Greer puts things far more eloquently than I ever could in her book "The Change" (required reading along with Susun Weed's New Menapause Book for all women!). Whether or not you agree with her, her final thoughts are that women should become gardeners and grow their own herbs to treat their symptoms, so she can't be all bad!

Sarah (aka a very, very, grumpy, old woman!)

How I agree with you. I have been talking to women about the menopause for years, trying to reassue them that it is a natural progression and nothing to be alarmed about. But alarmed they are by the media and their doctors. and of course all the stress makes their hot flushes worse.
I understand that at one time eastern countries had no name for the menopause, and suffered none of the 'symptoms' that we do. Perhaps because women have a continuing and valued role in eastern society as they get older and don't see it as an ending of something.!

Jenny

Hi Sarah & Jenny

For those interested the NHS Choices website has a report on the 'dangers of herbal cures' there conclusion is a lovely sit on the fence but point the finger approach. Makes me angry because they don't mention that conventional medicines treatment can have icky side effects and can be potentially dangerous, all we get are the nefarious 'recent HRT scares' no clarification, but black cohosh gets saddled with 'potential liver failure' makes it easy to see who is actually controlling the NHS in my opinion. www.nhs.uk/news/2009/01January/Pages/Menopauseherbalremedies.aspx

I didn't intend to make people grumpy with yesterday's post, but I'm glad it got people talking, I agree the menopause, is not a disease, its another part of life, pregnancy has some nasty side effects constipation, mood swings, nausea to name but a few, but that is celebrated and isn't viewed as a disease. So why is the menopause different? It's another part of the process we call life!

I to get annoyed at the "because you're worth it" style adds, inferring if I don't buckle to media pressure and spend a fortune on those products, I'm somehow a lesser person, or "not worth it".  I have recently noted that one company does 'anti-ageing products' one targeted for woman "helps to stop the 7 signs of ageing", but the same thing for men "fights the 5 signs of fatigue"! So women age and men just get fatigued is the message being sent out, and they apparently only have 5 signs, grrrr!

Re Germaine Greer, I wonder if we can coax her to become a Herb Society member lol! My opinion of her has changed over the years, I think with time she has changed in some ways although I haven't really followed her career so don't really no what she's up to, last time I saw her was a few years ago on grumpy old women on the BBC.

I agree with what you said Jenny about the valued role of women in society and them not getting symptoms, in western society we're put out ready for the knackers yard or sold a million products to make us look like mutton dressed as lamb "because we're worth it", I guess post baby producing woman aren't valued beyond being gullible purses in our society!

Debs aka a semi grumpy maturing young lady

Hi Sarah

This topic came up for discussion at last nights MHG meeting, the ladies shared your opinion that it isn't a disease its just another part of the journay of life, comments were made about it only being targeted as a 'disease' and something to talk about in whispers, since the drug companies started making there pills and potions to 'treat' the problem. There was a lot of anger at the way mature women are depicted and treated by the media as well.

So as a result we've decided to make one of our meeting themes this year be "The Menopause - A Celebration". Things to do to help, hands on herbs that can help you ease some of the day to day things menopausal women face on their journey, as well as swapping stories between those that have reached the next stage of the journey and those just about to embark upon it.  And all because of this thread

That sounds wonderful, Debs!

I shall look forward to the meeting.

I was thinking along the lines of the media and opportunities on Tuesday and I came to the conclusion that what the new Dr Who really needs is a "wise woman" companion to counteract his extreme youth. Obviously they would have to find something else for her to do besides running very fast for most episodes.

My heroine is Judi Dench. She has never been a glamorous actress, but a truly wonderful one ever since I saw her at Stratford in Twelfth Night with her late husband and A Winter's Tale when I was a teenager. Now she is still someone who commands your complete attention and engagement but epitomises the powerful wise woman she is - no matter what her role!

Sarah

Hello Sarah

How I agree about Judi Dench. Pretty well watch everything I can that she has done. Never could figure out why a man matures while a woman gets old. I have reached the wear purple and a red hat stage and am ageing disgracefully. If people don't like it tough. If they complain I shall tell them I grow herbs and see what they make of that. lol.

Jane

My friend recently recommended Sage tincture for my "warm moments" and I have only been taking them a few days, call it wishful thinking but it does seem to cool me down a bit.
Before my face used to start prickling, and already that has stopped, and although I get warm real quick still, I don't have the urge to take off my coat and shoes and sweater, i can already stand them a little better and can wait for it to pass.
Can anyone tell me why Sage leaf would help with the menopause, as I am very interested?
Thank oyu, and I too read a similar article on the intenet where it also said herb rememdies were no good, but I really do not want to try HRT, and I really believe Herbs will do the trick.
JaneCH

Hi All

I am growing my own herbs too, Just beginning to go through my best years - it took a few years to reach pubity (pubic hair, breasts, menstration) so naturally will take a few years to get to the other side - and loving it. I will definately try the sage tincture when the flushes arrive.

I know what you mean when the ads say, "because I'm worth it" well guess what, try aloe vera juice, it does the same job, and it's in the garden companies will go broke if women get back to basics. Best way to feel at peace when you make your own.

Back to basics
Robyn

Sage has traditionally been used for hot flushes. Its main action is to regulate secretory cell function . ie it reduces sweating, excess mucus etc. Try putting a sage leaf in your mouth, it imediately dries up.
It also helps regulate hormone levels so eases the way through the menopause.

Hi Jenny,
Thanks for the explanation. All I can tell you, is that sage tincture works wonders! After being on it for more than 10 days, hot flushes are not around, even in the night, I don't get as hot as I used to.
It feels so much better, and i recommend it to anyone who would want to try it as a rememdy for hot flushes.
Thanks

Just one tiny point - really in response to Robyn's comment about awaiting hot flushes. Not every woman gets them. If you are able, ask your mother and grandmother about their experiences and even further back down the line if you have family who have talked about such things in the past.

Also, if you are getting over heated - which part of your body is suffering? If you're getting hot feet either during pregnancy or menapause, you may be suffering from Magnesium deficiency as, according to Henriette Kress, it's a classic sign.

I wish I'd known that when I was pregnant all those years ago so I could have done something about it instead of having to take a cold hot water bottle to bed!

Sarah (whose youngest will be 21 tomorrow!)

I am always amazed and angered at simplistic media headlines that seem to appear with regularity. There is a good and increasing body of evidence (clinical trials) showing herbs such as Black Cohosh and Red Clover being effective in managing menopausal symptoms. The constant repetition of the 'dangers' of Black cohosh is largely based on 42 cases given to the European Medicines Agency (in 2006) where the herb was thought to cause liver problems. In fact, the Agency decided that in 38 of the cases no link could be estabished. I have just read a research report carried out in Germany which looked at the remaining 4 cases and they concluded that in these too there was no evidence of a link to severe liver damage. (If anyone wants references, let me know). Unfortunately, frequent repetition seems to make something true, whether it is or not.
As a herbalist, when asked about side effects or dangers, I always say that nothing is 100% safe for 100% of people, but herbs have had a very, very long use and safety record, and when prepared and/or prescribed by a professional, any dangers are minimised.
Headlines like this sadly cause unnecessary fear and confusion.

It always amazes me how many of the studues that claim to "Prove" that herbs aren't effective simply haven't bothered to check the dosages they use.

Or may be they have and just decided to divide the effective dose by about 10 to help prove their point? . .........

It does seem to happen alarmingly regularly that an impressive peer reviewed, expensive and mthodolically impressive trial gets negative results having used a teeny tiny dosage.....

Must be because the plants are so dangerous......

Another report that tries to scare people off using herbal remedies for treating the menopause!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/besttreatments/2009/jan/15/too-little-research-on-herbs-for-menopause

Debs>

Oh wow - something else for us poor, deluded females to get our knickers in a twist about! Notice what simple language the article is written in so everyone with a reading age of six and over can understand it!

Who carried out the meta-analysis? Doctors working for a drugs magazine. Gosh! I bet they really know their herbs. I bet they could walk into a plant nursery and identify each herb by its leaf and flower and root. I'm sure they could list the plant's medical history, useful componants and normal uses and dosages without reaching for a herbal materia medica. I'm sure they'd know how to grow the plant, harvest it, prepare it and work with it alongside people coming to see if it might be useful for them.

I wonder how many of these oh so qualified doctors are women? I wonder how many of them have actually experienced the menapause or talked closely with women who have lived through it as a normal part of growing older rather than a medicalised super-condition.

Isn't it wonderful what journalists will write!

I think Terry Pratchett made a very pertinent remark last night when he said the last thing doctors want is for patients to take control of their own condition.

Sarah

Hi Sarah,
Quite agree with Mr Pratchett's observation.Knowledge is power and if you can deny people information then those withholding facts become all powerful.As a child I was brought up to believe, like many millions of others, that "Doctor knew best ". Whilst things have changed considerably and we are being taught to question things, it is still a remaining attitude. With herbal practitioners, the basis of our work is to educate our patients to learn how they can heal themselves. Mind you I have had a few people who come along to see me and ask me to give them something to make everything better, but get very upset if you should dare to suggest that in addition to taking the herbs then they might do other things to help them selves!!

Excuse the rant. Given my age I can no longer blame my hormones when I get a bit ratty, so now I just blame the position of the plants instead. Thereby totalling rejecting any responsibility for my own actions! Oh, I didn't read the article,because I knew it would make me angry and I don't need any help in that direction !

Linda

Many years ago I was fortunate to hear a Dr say on the media, Quote:- Yes thier is nothing wrong with any of the therapies so long as we do them? Un-quote. Since then they have not stopped trying to improve thier Financial status out of ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE. Ignore them.
The only problem is that they with the General public, including most practitioners, follow, "a in vogue style" of knowlege and ignorance as to what rearly is the problem of most hormonal imbalances food and lifestyle.

Question/ What do I rearly know, or is it what I think?
What I know, or is it gained from mis-information?
Am I giving relief, can I do better?

Am I facilitating a the development of an ALTERATIVE and a complete repair?
If not What improvements do I have to achieve in myself.

When in practice 73 percent of my patients where Women with hormonal imbalances and I rearly failed them in achieving complete recovery.
Been thier, done that, most applications do not work because of incomplete Knowlege.

Ignore the media and never stop Learning, the best can be achieved

Sorry for all this, They would wind me up too
for they only want to control all even when the fail to understand how its rearly works.
Harry