(1) WITH THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING THIS BREED, WHAT ARE THOSE OF YOU THAT CONSISTANTLY SELL PUPS DOING TO HELP FIGHT BSL? IM TALKING ABOUT MORE OF THE WEIGHT PULL ORIENTED PEOPLE OF COURSE, BY POSTING ON THIS BOARD. I HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE, AND I SAY THAT LIGHTLY TO MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY AREA. WHILE THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE TRULY TRING TO HELP THE NEW PULLER TO GAIN KNOWLEDGE AND THE COMPETITIVE EDGE WITH POSITIVE BREEDING PRACTICES AND WORKING ETHICS, THERE ARE FAR MORE THAT TIP THE SCALES OF IN-HUMANE PRACTICES ALL AROUND. THOSE WHO FREQUENT THIS BOARD AS WELL AS OTHERS. WHICH CONVEYS A NOT SO POSITIVE IMAGE.

(2) IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS A VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF TURN-OVER IN THE PULLING CIRCUIT, WHY DO YOU SUSPECT THAT IS?

<< IN MY OPINION WHICH IS NOT TO OFFEND ANYONE, THERE ARE TO MANY SELFISH "FAME" SEEKERS. PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE OUT TO PROMOTE WHAT THEY ARE SELLING. WHETHER IT BE PUPS, OR THEIR IMAGE. THEY STOP AT NOTHING TO GET A "WIN" WHICH ULTIMATELY MEANS ABUSE TO THE ANIMAL! WHAT ARE WE TEACHING THE NEWBIES??? ME?? THAT TO BE COMPETITIVE, I SHOULD BREED EVERYTIME I HAVE A FEMALE IN HEAT, AND I HAVE TO PHYSICALLY PUT MY HANDS ON MY ANIMAL? >>

BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTIONS (2).....ANY ANSWERS?

Not real sure if I qualify to answer as I've not had a litter on my yard in along Time and have just got a dog to train for weight pull but as you are focusing your Biased questions toward the weight pull I thought I might give my humble opinion.
(1)controversy surrounding the breed and what the weight pullers are doing fun pulls that are put on to benefit communities or people in need and to show the other side of these dogs we own(89ers,greencountry,texoma,wilburtin, stonewall and many others)you know that stuff. that should answer your question.
As to the rest of part one all of us at one time or another has run into the trainers that we will not work with after seeing their training session. Alot of the guys that have been pulling along time are more than happy to open up there track and help people out I'm talking about taking time from their day time with their family to help new people out.
(2)As to the high turn over rate well you will always have some new guy that thinks he's got this weight pull down and comes to a real show soon finds out that they got more thought than motion(ya know I was for sure I was going to win but the dog wouldn't pull)been there myself lol but that just shows ya who's actually got Heart those that stick through more than two years who know that you can never stop learning more about weight pulling everytime you start a new dog since no dog can be trained the same they can workout the same but they where not started the same. Sorry went on a rant there. to finish the original thought that they figure if they can't win nationals in the first year then they just quit.
I will not say anything about the show side as its kind of a bomb type question(ya know no matter what ya type it always ends badly even when you weren't meaning it to like does this make me look fat lol)
I hope this helped with your questions.
Tom Hill
Oh this message is in no way meant to offend anybody

"(1) WITH THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING THIS BREED, WHAT ARE THOSE OF YOU THAT CONSISTANTLY SELL PUPS DOING TO HELP FIGHT BSL? IM TALKING ABOUT MORE OF THE WEIGHT PULL ORIENTED PEOPLE OF COURSE"
Everyone that sell's pups contributes by spending their money with the ADBA or whatever registry they use. Those registries in turn spend money to fight BSL. I do think that some breeders breed more then needed but you can not change them.


"BY POSTING ON THIS BOARD. I HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE, AND I SAY THAT LIGHTLY TO MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MY AREA. WHILE THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE TRULY TRING TO HELP THE NEW PULLER TO GAIN KNOWLEDGE AND THE COMPETITIVE EDGE WITH POSITIVE BREEDING PRACTICES AND WORKING ETHICS, THERE ARE FAR MORE THAT TIP THE SCALES OF IN-HUMANE PRACTICES ALL AROUND. THOSE WHO FREQUENT THIS BOARD AS WELL AS OTHERS. WHICH CONVEYS A NOT SO POSITIVE IMAGE."

My honest opinion to this is I do not believe that other more seasoned pullers are really trying to help the "newbies" as much as you like to think. I think that the competition and winning is far more important then sharing all their training secrets with what will ultimatly be their next comp.I also believe that some of the training practices may be a little harsh, but then again if you don't want to have to breed litter after litter that only produce a couple of natural pullers and a bunch of stubborn and/or lazy dogs, then being a little harsh saves you from having to breed more.

"(2) IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS A VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE OF TURN-OVER IN THE PULLING CIRCUIT, WHY DO YOU SUSPECT THAT IS?"

With this I think people take a dog as far as they think they can and then pass it on to someone who may be able to take it farther. Most of the hardcore pullers do this for the love of the hard work and the winning that comes with it. When they have brought a dog up to a certain level they feel as if they have completed their job and are ready for a new challenge. ( This is just my veiw point of the situation. If I am wrong then do correct me.)

"<< IN MY OPINION WHICH IS NOT TO OFFEND ANYONE, THERE ARE TO MANY SELFISH "FAME" SEEKERS. PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE OUT TO PROMOTE WHAT THEY ARE SELLING. WHETHER IT BE PUPS, OR THEIR IMAGE. THEY STOP AT NOTHING TO GET A "WIN" WHICH ULTIMATELY MEANS ABUSE TO THE ANIMAL! WHAT ARE WE TEACHING THE NEWBIES??? ME?? THAT TO BE COMPETITIVE, I SHOULD BREED EVERYTIME I HAVE A FEMALE IN HEAT, AND I HAVE TO PHYSICALLY PUT MY HANDS ON MY ANIMAL? >>"

To this I say there are good and bad with EVERY animal sport out there. And the wise thing to do is find the people who share your view points and stick with them. No in your heart you are doing the right thing and doing it the right way. Everyones training methods are different, just like everyone raises their kids differently. You use what you like and leave the rest alone.

I think ya'll both did a good job of trying to answer that question...I personally was not aware that the turn over rate is high...I mean every single person that I started out knowing that pulled loves it even more to this very day...It's a loaded question obviously coming from somebody who has a chip on there shoulder about pullers,but all in all I think you men did a great job of hammering home the clear message...were definitely about the dogs and if you think were just all in it to win think again,cause there are alot more dogs competing today and the competition just gets tougher and tougher!Winning is nice but getting the most from your dog is my biggest challenge!Getting him to live up to his capabilities every single time out is tough!I've learned more about failed techniques and things that don't work for me than I could have ever imagined...I've failed way more than I have succeeded!


James

OK,NOW I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN BY TURNOVER,DO YOU MEAN THAT IF YOUR DOG DON,T WORK FOR YOU,THEN YOU GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO CAN TRAIN IT ,OK, NOW I WILL LET YOU IN ON A LITTLE SECRET,ALL MY DOGS EXCEPT SIS,AND MINTI,I HAVE GOTTEN FROM PEOPLE THAT GAVE UP ON THESE DOGS,BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY DID THAT DID NOT WORK FOR THEM,NOW DIRTY WHITE BOY[A/A],KANE[A]2 TME NATIONAL CHAMPION,SIS[A],MINTI[A]BOMBER,S TUG IT[A],WHISKEY BOY[A/A-3],HAMMER[A],I NOW HAVE PUPS OFF OF HAMMER,I SOLD ALL OF WHISKEY,S PUPS BECAUSE THEY WANTED A GOOD WEIGHT PULL DOG,I WILL HELP ANYONE,TRAIN THERE DOG,AND I WILL HELP THEM EVEN IF THEY BEAT ME,THESE ARE MY TURNOVERS,AND THEY HAVE PAST ON IN MY YARD,I DID NOT GET THOSE TITLES BY NOT WORKING MY DOGS THERE IS A LOT OF WORK INVOLVED IN TRAINING,[WORK][WORK],AND MORE [WORK]MY MY MAIN COMPETION IS WITH ME AND,MY DOG OR DOGS,I STARTED AT THE BOTTOM AND WORKED MY WAY UP,TO WHERE ME AND MY DOGS HAVE ACCOMPLISHED WHAT WE HAVE SET OUT TO DO,AND SHOW THE PEOPLE THAT THEY ARE CAPABLE OF BEING SOMETHING WORTHY OF THERE HERITAGE NOW NOT THEN,[OF OLD].P.S NO BODY IS PERFECT.

we all know u are james w bates. look at tha ip numbers.

If you were to read, you can cant you -you will see that there are alot of good in weight pulling and in the people that are on this board.I have not put a Dog on the track at a show but I will real soon and any ? I have had I have not had not one person have a neg. thing to say.As far as over breeding maybe you should look at RE-Gotty and the bully breeders selling litter after litter,are there selling for $ or to better the breed.It is true not every person should own APBT and alot of them should not even have kids but to start pointing your finger maybe you should look around and see what is going around in the world.JMO Jim ps-ip dont mean nothing

SORRY RANDY-I DIDNT CHANGE THE TITLE I DIDNT MEAN FOR THAT TO BE TITLE HEY RANDY

jim how is rowdy,doing, i have his brother back and he is about 85/90 lbs and he is energetic,when he wags his tail his whole body shakes,oh,yea,i don,t have any turnovers,i try to better the dogs and the art of weight pulling,i am not downing anybdy at all,just making a point about his concerns,i try very hard to better this sportas much as i can,and i hope that everyone will understand what i mean,P.S I DON,T KNOW WHAT A IP # IS,I JUST TYPE,AND PUT AN OPINION OF MINE IN THE BOX THAT IS ALL NO HARM INTENDED,oops big letters i can,t read very good,any way need glasses badly

How are you doing, Rowdy is big very big Im going to weight him in a day or so. He has some drive out of this world but you know all about that.I have not starter to work him yet Im working with my female she is 58 pounds and her brother he is 89 pounds.She will be ready for sure, but win or lose shes a winner in my eyes.I dont under stand people that pop in and ask neg.? every body has been very helpful with me and I DONT SEE ALOT OF TURN OVER WITH THE PULLERS, but people have to talk about some body. I would like to thank you and the folks that have help and answerd my ? and every body have a merry chrismas. Thanks Jim

Sorry...I already said my piece...anyway why in the world would I act as if I were Randy...those dogs he mentioned are his dogs not mine...just for your info...those IP's don't really mean anything !What reasoning would I have to act as if I were Randy...everyone on here knows full well I don't ever have a problem in saying what I feel at anytime,anywhere to anyone...so there's never been a time when I don't list my name and sign on as well...that's why out beside my name you will see forum owner...I ain't never gonna be intimidated to stand my ground son...it's just not in my genectic makeup...hiding ain't for me...I say what I have to say and sign my name like a man,cause that's the right thing to do!Grow up!


James

Id be really interested to know what your doing yourself to address these concerns. Perhaps some of us can learn from your approach.

Brian