I buy a lot of my hobby supplies from Melbourne shops as I live in a farming area. I've just got off the phone after trying to order some Model Master paints from one of my favourite hobby shops only to be told, sorry the hobby stores are no longer allowed to post any paints etc through the mail, in reality a $5 bottle of paint could end up costing me $30 in postage as it has to go by a special post because it has that little word on the bottle, flammable. What an absolute joke. My closest LHS doesn't carry Model Master (yet) and to be fair to the owners their model section is a small part of a large craft shop and they are doing a great job in trying to fill a void for local modellers. But I don't expect them to stock up on something just because I use it!
I know it's a hazardous substance but that didn't stop hobby shops around the world previously posting the stuff everywhere. I'm just one of thousands of Aussie modellers who don't have the convenience of being able to stroll down the street to pick up a kit or a pot of paint. To me this latest ruling is only going to cause further grief for model shop proprietors as it takes even more sales away from them. So now I have to resort to driving a round trip of over 300 klms to buy a $5 bottle of paint and I'd have to want more than a few bottles of paint to drive to Melbourne. Any paint stands at Expo anyone?
Sorry for the rant gang but things are just going over the top
you could try Brunel Hobbies as they have Model Master and see what they say. I have ordered from them but I use acrylics and they don't have a problem with posting them. They also offer excellent service. I understand your plight as I am in country NSW and all my stuff is pretty much ordered via the internet. Hope this helps,
Had a look and have shopped at Brunel Hobbies previously, they have Model Master but I'm geared up for enamels. Had a look around numerous hobby shop internet sites and the message is the same, no posting of paints, so don't be surprised if your paint supply dries up in the future. It's not only enamels either looking at some of the sites. All deliveries via courier and some of the local (read Ballarat) couriers don't even come out this far, something about dropping off the edge of the universe....TIC!
Posting up to 300ml of paint in small tinlets and bottles is allowable according to the...
May 24 2010, 6:33 PM
...most recent info I have from Australia Post.
I went to some effort to get this cleared up a while ago.
Give me a call at VHC ( 03 9650 4817 ) and I'll explain it in more detail.
There has been no change to this as far as I'm aware.
Assistant AMI Moderator.
I remember some previous discussions about this subject, maybe the numerous Post Office staff at different locations are at odds as to what is allowed and what is not. I'll call you tomorrow (Tuesday)and see if there's a legal way around this problem as I certainly don't advocate that any hobby shops proprietors should break the law.
I'm two hours away from Melbourne.
I still favour enamels - especially Model Master ( Humbrol are hit'n miss in quality these days). I love Model Master's fine pigments they are and are excellent for hand painting and airbrushing.
Either here or on some other forum this irksome problem was discussed and I suggested we all band together and order a bulk load from overseas.
Of course this would cost a small fortune.
I still can't get over the cost of hobby paints in Oz.
How do retailers manage to get their supplies?I've noticed that Model Master enamels are getting harder to source at a reasonable price.
Have to agree with you about Model Master paints, their pigments are first class and maybe Humbrol's standards have slipped a bit in recent times due to numerous bumps in the road.
It annoys me that there appears to be a reluctance (is that the word I'm looking for?) by a lot of hobby shops to stock MM, especially the initial series 1 of military colours. And I can't see me switching to acrylics.
I think that the costs of MM compared with Humbrol etc should be looked into as there's always been a disparity with those respective brands pricing, wherever I went. I like the bulk shipment idea. I just don't think I'd like the freight costs and hassles.
Whilst I acknowledge and understand your frustration, we perhaps need to focus on the bigger picture. What we are talking about here is the safe transportation of Dangerous Goods. I am a regulator-qualified Dangerous Goods Instructor for the airline industry, and I can tell you that Dangerous Goods is not something that should ever be taken for granted, underestimated, or marginalised. In the last 12 months alone, Australia's major airlines have suffered over 200 Dangerous Goods "incidents" of varying degrees, some of which have invloved undeclared and/or inapproprietly packaged Dangerous Goods being sent via the post. I believe that similar stats also prevail for the road and rail transport industries. Your $5.00 tin of model paint is, in actual fact, a Class 3 Dangerous Good and, certainly for air carraige, special handling and packaging provisions are therefore legally and operationaly required, by State and Federal law, CASA, ICAO, and IATA. You mention that hobby shops have, in the past, freely shipped paints, solvents etc (ie;Dangerous Goods) around the world, and this is true, but the airline industry has learnt,(in some cases the hard way), how this should and must be done safely. Are you really suggesting that we should not learn and act on past lessons that have, in some cases, written off aircraft and killed people!!! Sorry for the rather dramatic lecture, but please understand that what we as modellers consider to be "just paint or glue" can have significant and serious detrimental impact on safe surface or air travel. Yes this is, on occsasion, inconvenient for the individual, but consider the potential alternatives if we ignored or mis-handeled the transportation of Dangerous Goods.
OK, lecture over.
I fully understand your reply and where you are coming from, being an ex AFP member. I myself am guilty of grounding and evacuating a main commercial airliner because of a baggage problem until I was satisfied the baggage had been removed, resulting in fuming airline staff, rescheduled flight times and peeved passengers, I didn't care as I was doing my job and the aircraft contained top drawer VIP's at the time(which caused a row but was thanked later by the senior VIP concerned) I realise the problem concerning aircraft and dangerous goods having also done a course, mind you a long time ago.
One thing I can tell you is that I don't take anything for granted. I don't envy your line of work either. A lot of very hard lessons have had to be learnt the hard way over the years and no I don't advocate disregarding the rules.
Any paint I may need has to come from Melbourne by road ( I drive trucks & heavy machinery now) and I would have thought (silly I know) that a hobby shop proprietor would have the nouse to pack such items securely and safely. I'm assuming that Testors have already shipped it to Oz via Air Cargo or more than likely surface freight.
Oh by the way, I didn't consider your thoughts on the subject a lecture, more like an up to date informative chat. I've been out of the game for many moons, but still remember what I was taught all those years ago.
Thanks for a well-considered and objective reponse...
May 25 2010, 10:51 PM
Hi again Wayne,
Thankyou for what is a well-considered, concise, informative, and objective response. I concur completly with your views that any model shop involved with mail order of any description should be shipping their products safely, this is certainly not an unreasonable expectation on your part.
I was most interested to read of your AFP experience in dealing with "suspicious" baggage on an aircraft. All I can say is "well-done" on your part. I am sure the crew on that day would have been most grateful for your actions and overall vigilance, I know I would have been!!!. We have a saying when undertaking Aircrew security training these days and that is "9 times out of 10 you might get away with taking chances, but you only need get it wrong once!!!
Thanks for taking my post in the spirit that it was intended Wayne, sometimes on these forums things can be mis-interupted. I am glad that is not the case here. I have enjoyed our chat.
Regards for now
This message has been edited by rayqf from IP address 220.127.116.11 on May 25, 2010 10:53 PM
Another example of bureacracy gone mad and the ever more common and annoying "Nanny State" measures taking control.
Ray's points are good and I agree that safety is a priority, but I really do wonder how the refusal to carry such an item by mail is justified. It certainly isn't commonsense.
Take airmail for example - airmail is sent via large flying vehicle carring tons of highly flammable fuel, oils and other lubricants that keep it in the air. That's not to mention all the plastics, electrics, etc that are used in the manufacture of the aircraft's systems & fittings. Would a millilitres of paint that are properly sealed and carefully wrapped make a difference to the flammability of the whole airborne package?
We're lucky that the bureaucrats are haven't realised that paper is highly flammable, otherwise letters and envelopes would be considered a "dangerous good" too!
The paints that we use, CAN be posted, with no limitations on quantity.
If you have a look on the tins and jars, some may actually say flammabe, but they do not carry the flammable symbol, nor do they have a flammable ratting, or a dangerous codes code.
White Ensign Enamels are our most popular paint, and we receive these by airmail from the UK, and then post via Aussie post with no problems.
Creative Models Australia
I think (fingers crossed etc) that I may have reached a solution with the help of young Daryl (hi ya' Buzzard) Williams after I had a chat with him. Hearn's hobby shop in Melbourne has a shipment inbound on it's way this week and they have no problems shipping via Aus. Post I'm told.
Thanks Glen anyway for your input, helps to clear things up a bit, and if you're reading this Bertie if you need a Model Master paint top up, then you know who to contact.
To all the other members who chipped in, thank you for your comments, they are all appreciated.
No probs Wayne, like I said, if it doesnt have the triangular flammable sign, and fammable rating, then it can be posted, from any shop to anywhere, land, sea or air. I would say that the shop you have been dealing with, just couldnt be bothered posting a small paint order.
Creative Models Australia
Sorry Glen but that's not entirely correct mate...
May 26 2010, 7:56 PM
Sorry mate but that's not entirely correct. The fact is that most paints ARE indeed Class 3 Dangerous Goods, (check any Shipper's Dangerous Goods manual for confirmation of this). This is regardless of size of shipment/consignment or weather the individual paint container displays appropriate dangerous goods labelling. If you tried to ship undeclared paints (ie:dangerous goods) on my airline, if detected, it would not make it past the freight shed and the shipper would, in all probability, face prosecution under the Federal legislation. Note that I am not trying to start a debate or argument here, I am just stating facts as they stand. These are the rules weather we like it or not.
This message has been edited by rayqf from IP address 18.104.22.168 on May 26, 2010 9:09 PM This message has been edited by rayqf from IP address 22.214.171.124 on May 26, 2010 8:00 PM
Re: Sorry Glen but that's not entirely correct mate...
May 27 2010, 9:25 AM
Yeah hear what your saying, but I think you will find there is some exclusion for these paints. Going from my expeiences in receiving paints from White Ensign Models in the UK, Daco in Belguim, and Agama from Poland, all have been sent regualr airmail, with no extra information stating they are flammable or what cat.
For Australia Pos, shipping internally here, there is no problems, becuase there is no flammable ymbol or flammable cat number.
Creative Models Australia
You'll still need to live to about a 120 Buzz to whittle your stash down. I'm the wrong side of sixty and heading for the heavens like a runaway Me-163 Komet. Which reminds me, that's another one in the stash that needs doing!