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RAAF P40 Foliage green and Earth brown What is the correct Color ???

September 9 2010 at 12:02 AM
  (Login model.maker)
from IP address 121.220.109.122

 
HI All as the title says I"m currently putting together a series of Hasegawa 1/32nd scale P40E's And M's I can assume that the E and M were the same colors ? Would someone know the Correct FS Color and matching Humbrol etc paint equivalent ? Any help at all would be appreciated !

Sean

 
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AuthorReply
Peter Malone
(Login PeterMalone)
117.47.249.85

P-40 camouflage colours

September 9 2010, 10:48 AM 

Hello Shean,

There is no simple answer to your question. The P40E and P-40E-1 were finished in a variety of colour schemes depending on how they were processed before entering RAAF service. Many were also repainted during their RAAF careers. The P-40M aircraft were also not consistent in their camouflage schemes.

Peter Malone

 
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(Login bremnerclark)
60.225.32.196

What Peter said.

September 9 2010, 10:53 AM 

You may find some basic guidance in Red Roo's book on understanding Austrailan colours - see www.redroomodels.com/books.php?book=7.

A man can't have too many flying boats ...

 
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(Login David_A_Edwards)
136.8.1.100

If you have some specific aircraft in mind post the details here.

September 9 2010, 1:15 PM 

I will make a sweeping generalisation and suggest that most of these were flown in either their factory schemes or with only partial repainting in the first instances.

 
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Brad
(Login _Exocet_)
124.190.138.118

The best help I can give you is to stop looking for a correct colour...

September 9 2010, 3:45 PM 

All of the RAAF P-40's came from stocks in the US which were diverted lend lease aircraft for the Poms, so it's probable they were RAF earth and dark green. Some aircraft were repainted after overhaul in foilage green and and earth. They could also have been repainted in overall foilage green, sometimes with or without sky blue undersurfaces. Much later they were paint stripped back to natural metal.

Also note that they were delivered with red/white/blue roundels which some aircraft retained, in the end though most would have had the red dot painted out to avoid friendly fire incidents. Some aircraft had their underwing roundels deleted too.

If you can catch some of the colour film that was short at Milne Bay, that is about as good a reference as you will see.


 
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Damian C
(Login DamianJC)
152.91.9.9

If desparate in relation to a P-40E ....

September 9 2010, 4:35 PM 

Assuming we are talking about the pacific theater:

For a practical if not perfect solution for a 2-colour upper scheme in delivery scheme: US medium green and the tan from the USAF SEAC scheme, over a pale grey like USN light gull gray.

Some Es had a wavy demarcation line between upper and lowers; these aircraft had, I believe, the undersides repainted in RAAF sky to cover up "US ARMY" markings. I have been told that IDF pale blue is not too distant from RAAF sky, though perhaps a tad greenish. So I have been told.

Aircraft in single-colour uppers are OD over NG.

It gets complicated in the Med because no Es were delivered in desert camo, but had the green areas, but only the green areas, overpainted (frequently leaving a rectangle of the original scheme around the serial) - but I can't remember if with middle stone or a mixed colour.

I would suggest Ian K Baker's colouring book on the P-40.

 
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(Login model.maker)
121.220.109.122

Re: RAAF P40 Foliage green and Earth brown What is the correct Color ???

September 9 2010, 6:40 PM 

This is one of the Aircraft well the one I'm focusing my attention on at the moment 76 sqn P40M A29-377 sqn code P-SV
Main topic of contention with my mate is an accurate placement of the upper camoflage scheme so any help there would also be appreciated ? Looking at several reference photos of Other P40M's they all seem to show slighly different camoflage layouts.
On the color problem I know this particular aircraft was very badly weathered ( hence the reason it was chosen as a modelling subject)I understand it would have been reasonably sun bleached but I would like to start with reasonably correct colors and tone them back Via the weathering processes.

Sean
[IMG][linked image][/IMG]


    
This message has been edited by model.maker from IP address 121.220.109.122 on Sep 9, 2010 6:55 PM
This message has been edited by model.maker from IP address 121.220.109.122 on Sep 9, 2010 6:54 PM


 
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(Login Kahunaminor)
58.167.51.181

Hi Sean,

September 9 2010, 10:06 PM 

I don't know if these help but these are the colours I used for my 1/48 P-40N (Cleopatra III) which can be found in the AMI Gallery if you want to have a look. The 4 digit reference numbers are MM enamel bottles:

The a/c was OD (FS34087 Olive Drab -1711) over NG (FS36320 Dk Ghost Gray -1741) with the original US markings on the fuselage painted out with RAAF Foliage Green (FS34092 Euro Dk Green - 1764)

I don't claim them as perfect. To get a Humbrol colour match go to the IPMS Stockholm webiste and they should have them over there:

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/colorcharts.asp

I hope this puts you in the right direction. I am sure that the information is to hand somewhere and remind you these are a general reference from a simple man!!

Regards

Kent in Oz

 
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Sean Morgan
(Login model.maker)
121.220.109.122

Re: Hi Sean,

September 9 2010, 10:38 PM 

Hi Kent thank you for the link I'll check this out in more detail , all I need to do now is find a picture which better shows the camouflage layout more clearly.
Had a look at the gallery Kent very nice build , I only hope what I'm doing at the moment will turn out half as good as what you've achieved.

Sean


    
This message has been edited by model.maker from IP address 121.220.109.122 on Sep 10, 2010 7:15 AM


 
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Peter Malone
(Login PeterMalone)
117.47.249.85

P-40M camouflage

September 10 2010, 9:13 PM 

Hello Shaun,

I wouldn't be going with the OD/NG colour scheme that Kent used for his P-40N-20 model.

The evidence suggests that P-40M aircraft were finished at the factory in a temperate, brown/green upper surface scheme. The pattern and colours were basically the same as used on the P-40E-1. A Curtiss drawing for the P-40E-1 cites duPont colours: Brown 71-009 and Green 71-013 for the upper surface colours. The under surface colour is not given a reference number. Curtis seem to have used a light gray and a light blue at different times. I have colour chips from P-40E-1s that show a light grey. On the other hand, a model of a P-40M-1, built in 1943, for an 86 Sqn RAAF pilot, is painted in a light blue very close to RAAF Sky Blue. This may have been the Curtiss colour or, it may have been that the RAAF chose to re-paint the under surfaces of their P-40Ms in the RAAF paint. The model was painted using paints held by the squadron for touch-up work so the colours were authentic.

You are correct about the amount of service that A29-377 saw. It was first issued to 86 Sqn at the end of 1943. In April 1944 it went to 77 Sqn for a short period before finding its way to 76 Sqn in June. In October it was damaged when the undercarriage collapsed on landing. It was repaired and received a 240hourly overhaul at 22 RSU. It returned to 76 Sqn in early January 1945 and was coded 'P'. It was shortly after this that the photo you have was taken. (If you look carefully at the photo you can see where a previous code has been over-painted. On my copy of that photo you can also see that a replacement radiator and oil-cooler cowling has been fitted). It was transferred out of 76 Sqn in late February when the squadron re-equipped with the P-40N-40. It went to the newly re-formed 86 Sqn and then 2 OTU before ending its days at 6 AD at Oakey.

Hope the above helps with your model.

Peter


 
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Peter Malone
(Login PeterMalone)
117.47.249.85

P-40M camouflage

September 10 2010, 9:14 PM 

Hello Shaun,

I wouldn't be going with the OD/NG colour scheme that Kent used for his P-40N-20 model.

The evidence suggests that P-40M aircraft were finished at the factory in a temperate, brown/green upper surface scheme. The pattern and colours were basically the same as used on the P-40E-1. A Curtiss drawing for the P-40E-1 cites duPont colours: Brown 71-009 and Green 71-013 for the upper surface colours. The under surface colour is not given a reference number. Curtis seem to have used a light gray and a light blue at different times. I have colour chips from P-40E-1s that show a light grey. On the other hand, a model of a P-40M-1, built in 1943, for an 86 Sqn RAAF pilot, is painted in a light blue very close to RAAF Sky Blue. This may have been the Curtiss colour or, it may have been that the RAAF chose to re-paint the under surfaces of their P-40Ms in the RAAF paint. The model was painted using paints held by the squadron for touch-up work so the colours were authentic.

You are correct about the amount of service that A29-377 saw. It was first issued to 86 Sqn at the end of 1943. In April 1944 it went to 77 Sqn for a short period before finding its way to 76 Sqn in June. In October it was damaged when the undercarriage collapsed on landing. It was repaired and received a 240hourly overhaul at 22 RSU. It returned to 76 Sqn in early January 1945 and was coded 'P'. It was shortly after this that the photo you have was taken. (If you look carefully at the photo you can see where a previous code has been over-painted. On my copy of that photo you can also see that a replacement radiator and oil-cooler cowling has been fitted). It was transferred out of 76 Sqn in late February when the squadron re-equipped with the P-40N-40. It went to the newly re-formed 86 Sqn and then 2 OTU before ending its days at 6 AD at Oakey.

Hope the above helps with your model.

Peter


 
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(Login model.maker)
121.219.96.149

Re: P-40M camouflage

September 16 2010, 6:28 PM 

Thanks very much for this Peter on with the painting .

Sean

 
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Kent Strickland
(Login Kahunaminor)
58.167.51.181

Mate sorry to lead you down the garden path there

September 10 2010, 10:22 PM 

I didn't properly read you were looking for at an "M". I really only posted it as a guide to the Foliage green colour and obviously Peter has far and away more knowledge on the subject.

Regards

Kent in Oz


    
This message has been edited by Kahunaminor from IP address 58.167.51.181 on Sep 10, 2010 10:23 PM


 
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(Login model.maker)
121.219.96.149

Re: Mate sorry to lead you down the garden path there

September 16 2010, 6:26 PM 

Sorry for the late reply , no problem at all kent I knew where you were coming from thanks for your help on the matter anyway. All is sorted!!

 
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(Login model.maker)
121.220.35.193

Re: RAAF P40 Foliage green and Earth brown What is the correct Color ???

October 7 2010, 10:37 PM 

I've got the upper fuselage colors sorted now I went with RAAF foliage Green and Dark earth brown but I'd love some advise on the spinner colors? I know the Rear half of the spinner is natural Aluminum but what would the tip color be ? I was under the Impression it would be Foliage Green ?

Sean

 
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(Login AndrewDoppel)
Moderators
58.167.39.214

Looking at the tone of the colour my guess would actually be......

October 8 2010, 10:35 AM 

red tip as the tone seems different to that of the fuselage. The other aircraft in that pic SV-Z appears to have a darker spinner tip but again slightly different to the tone of the fuselage. Peter Malone again would be a better authority on this and before taking any action see what he comes back with. He was extremely helpful in providing detail for my 1/32 P-40N FA-Y/FA-.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI

 
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(Login model.maker)
121.220.35.193

Re: Looking at the tone of the colour my guess would actually be......

October 8 2010, 4:43 PM 

Thanks Andrew thats my initial Thoughts but I Thought all red color was removed from the Aircraft in the Pacific theatre because of confusion with Friendly ground fire , doesn't sound logical?
Anyway any help on this matter would be great.

Sean

 
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Sean Morgan
(Login model.maker)
121.220.35.193

A29-337 Spinner Colors

October 20 2010, 7:13 PM 

Guys I've managed to determine the correct camouflage colors for the airframe but I now need to put closure on the spinner colors. we've determined that the rear half of the spinner is natural Aluminum. doing a Google search has brought up several colored profiles of the Aircraft which shows a red tip on the spinner , is there anyone out there that can confirm this as being correct? as I'm also told that it could have worn a foliage tip ? Please someone must know ? Loking at the color tone on the war time photo doesn't convince me it was green but rather it was red.

Regards Sean

 
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(Login AndrewDoppel)
Moderators
203.25.230.151

Email Peter Malone off his posts. I'm sure he'll know.

October 20 2010, 8:50 PM 

if there's no link, email me at home and I'll get him to contact you.



Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI

 
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(Login model.maker)
138.217.92.186

Re: RAAF P40 Foliage green and Earth brown What is the correct Color ???

March 4 2011, 11:08 PM 

Hi all I have managed to almost finish this build . All that is left to do is some more heavier weathering and a flat coat. In the end I finished the model in Polly scale RAAF Folige Green& earth Brown with Sky Blue underside.
I'm reasonably happy with the finish but would like to still find out what nose art this particular aircraft carried if any? I have included several photos but please excuse my photography , not one of my strong points.
Please let me know what your thoughts are good and bad , I have very broard sholders!!!

Sean
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[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

[IMG][linked image][/IMG]

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