From: "Richard Gaines" <gunnyg@hotmail.com> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
To: bjordan@atpco.com
Subject: Re: Gen. Greene
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:24:49 -0500
Bryant:
My favorite from all of the material re the
trial, is the piece I use on my
own website as to what Chesty Puller had to say
at the McKeon trial.....(See
Below)
Also, I have exchanged e-mail with Gene Ervin who
was the Platoon Guide, Plt
#71, and he provided information to Judge Stevens
for his recent book,
Court-Martial At Parris island...
Gene's e-mail addy is
geneervin@hotmail.com
should you wish to contact him.
**************************************
Dick Gaines
Amid a nationwide public outcry regarding the
whole matter of the drownings
in particular and Marine Corps training practices
in general, LtGen Lewis B.
"Chesty" Puller was recalled to active duty to
testify at the trial
regarding Marine training and tradition. Mrs.
Puller protested to her
husband citing previous trouble and controversy
in Puller's career. Puller
told her, "...The important thing is the Marine
Corps. If we let 'em,
they'll tear it to pieces. Headquarters won't
speak up. It's my duty to do
it."
At the trial, Puller was asked questions
pertaining to his own military
service, the mission of the Marine Corps, the
most important element of
Marine training, etc. In part, Puller replied
that:, "...The definition of
military training is success in battle. In my
opinion, it is the only
objective of military training..."
He quoted Napoleon. "He stated that the most
important thing in military
training is discipline. Without discipline an
army becomes a mob."
Puller was asked what he had learned here (PISC)
as a recruit. He replied,
"Well, the main thing--that I have rememberd all
my life--is the definition
of espirit de corps. Now my definition--that I
was taught, that I've always
believed in--is that espirit de corps means love
for one's military legion.
In my case the United States Marine Corps. I also
learned that this loyalty
to one's Corps travels both ways, up and down."
"Q: Now, general, I want you to assume that what
is the evidence in this
case is a fact. That on a Sunday evening a drill
instructor took a platoon
that was undisciplined and lacked spirit and on
whom he' tried other methods
of discipline. And that for purposes of teaching
discipline and instilling
morale he took that platoon into a marsh or
creek--all the way in front of
his troops--would you consider that oppression?
A: In my opinion it is not."
"Q: So, in your opinion, was this act of this
drill instructor in leading
his troops, under those conditions and for that
purpose, good or bad
military practice?
A: Good...
...I would train my troops as I thought--as I
knew they should be
trained--regardless of a directive."
"Q: ...I lead these recruits into water over
their heads and I lose six of
those men by drowning. Would you say that some
action should be taken
against me?
A: I would say that this night march was and is a
deplorable accident."
"Q: Would you take any action against me if I
were the one who did that, if
you were my Commanding Officer, sir?
A: ...I think, from what I read in the papers
yesterday of the testimony of
General Pate before this court, that he agrees
and regrets that this man was
ever ordered tried by general court-martial."
"Puller went into the noncom's club that night
with Berman, two Marine
generals and other officers; the big crowd stood,
shouting until he spoke:
'I've talked enough for today. This will be my
last request. Do your duty
and the Marine Corps will be as great as it has
always been for another
thousand years.'
The applause was deafening."
Re
The book, " Marine, The Life of Lt. Gen. Lewis B.
(Chesty) Puller, USMC
(Ret.)"
By Burke Davis, 1962, Bantam
Semper Fidelis
R.W. "Dick" Gaines
GySgt USMC (Ret.)
(1952-1972)
***************
Note: You should be on my Contact List or e-mail
to this address may not
reach me, as I am now restricting e-mail for all
but pre-selected
individuals (due to spam!)--otherwise you may
contact me by posting at my
Weblog shown below.
****************
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http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dickg/gunny.html
***************
Gunny G's Old Salt Marines Tavern Weblog!
http://network54.com/Forum/135069
****************
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>From: Bryant Jordan <bjordan@atpco.com>
>To: Richard Gaines <gunnyg@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Gen. Greene
>Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 13:02:48 -0500
>
>Hello, Gunny;
> Thanks for your note. Though I'm not sure
there is anything I can mine
>from
>it for this article, it does make me want to
write something about Ribbon
>Creek
>-- especially looking at what happened to
McKeon, and the fact his men all
>had
>good things to say about him.
> What do you think?
> Bryant
>
>
>Richard Gaines wrote:
>
> > Mr. Jordan:
> >
> > Thank you for your e-mail.
> > I do not have any special insight into the
aftermath of Ribbon Creek,
>etc.
> > Like most Marines of my time (1952-72) I
share the general opinion that
>much
> > was lost in Marine training after the SSgt
McKeon incident, but I think
> > w/all that has occurred in our country/world
these last 50 years, that
>the
> > same result would have come upon us anyway.
In many ways, I also
>recognize
> > that the physical demands on recruits today
are much greater and a good
> > thing. The decision as to where to draw the
line in 1956 was inevitable,
>in
> > any case. And I cannot second guess those who
made the decisions at that
> > time.
> >
> > The higher education standard for today's
recruits is also not to be
>denied
> > and is a good thing. I do regret, however,
that those of today who lack
>a
> > high school education, at seventeen or
eighteen, are generally denied
> > enlistment. I think many of those kids would
still make good Marines, as
> > were those of my generation.
> >
> > In my opinion, the Marines of today are "up
to snuff" and will perform
>as
> > Marines have always done, and are expected to
do today, as always. It is
>the
> > general society of America that has changed,
and not just Marine
>training
> > alone; and it is this society from which we
draw the basic resources for
>the
> > Corps--the young men and women of
America--and, in spite of differences,
> > however great, we will still
prevail--whatever it takes!
> >
> > My motivation in establishing a webpage on
the Ribbon Creek tragedy, was
> > that, over the years, I have received
numerous inquiries from members of
> > Platoon #71(and other Marines as well)
seeking information on other
>platoon
> > members and/or SSgt McKeon. To a man, all
have spoken favorably of
>their
> > drill instructor. I, therfore, put up the
website, to assist those Plt
>#71
> > Marines in establishing contact with one
another if desired, and for the
> > information of other interested Marines.
> >
> > Regret that I cannot be of more asistance to
you on this. Please feel
>free
> > to post on my webpages if you desire to
attract the attention of
>concerned
> > Marines and their comments.
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Dick Gaines
> > Semper Fidelis
> > R.W. "Dick" Gaines
> > GySgt USMC (Ret.)
> > (1952-1972)
> > ***************
> > Note: You should be on my Contact List or
e-mail to this address may not
> > reach me, as I am now restricting e-mail for
all but pre-selected
> > individuals (due to spam!)--otherwise you may
contact me by posting at
>my
> > Weblog shown below.
> > ****************
> > Gunny G's Old Salt Marines Tavern
> > (Sites & Forums)
> >
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dickg/gunny.html
> > ***************
> > Gunny G's Old Salt Marines Tavern Weblog!
> >
http://network54.com/Forum/135069
> > ****************
> > The Best Way To Find Old Marine Corps
Buddies!
> >
http://expage.com/friendsusmc
> >
> > >From: Bryant Jordan <bjordan@atpco.com>
> > >To: gunnyg@hotmail.com
> > >Subject: Gen. Greene
> > >Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 11:31:53 -0500
> > >
> > >Hi, Gunny;
> > > I'm writing the obituary on Gen.
Wallace Greene, the Corps 23rd
> > >commandant. I saw your piece online about
Ribbon Creek and its
> > >aftermath, and wondered if you had any
thoughts on Gen. Greene's role
>in
> > >changing recruit training at Parris Island
after he was put in charge.
> > > I'm writing this for today, so drop me
a note or call as soon as
> > >possible.
> > > Thanks.
> > >Bryant Jordan
> > >Deputy News Editor
> > >Marine Corps Times
> > >6883 Commercial Drive
> > >Springfield, VA 22159
> > >
> > >Phone: 703 750 8113
> > >Fax: 703 750 8767
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2
months FREE*
> >
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>--
>Bryant Jordan
>Deputy News Editor
>Marine Corps Times
>6883 Commercial Drive
>Springfield, VA 22159
>
>Phone: 703 750 8113
>Fax: 703 750 8767
