LesGroshong
WW2 Retreads?
Sat Oct 19 16:00:29 2002
205.188.209.112
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149620;article=2232


Early in 1943, while in New Zealand, 3/HQ/8 received two
new members who were said to be recalled WW1 Marines. We referred to them as retreads, and they did guard duty, and drove jeeps. One of them was named John Swartz. He was a Corporal, and his son was a Sergeant in the same Company.

His son's name was Jack S. Frishman, and called Abbie.
I have never heard anything about these Marines who came back into the Corps, and although, in many ways, over the hill, their hearts were as strong as any. Can anyone throw a little light on these seemingly forgotten heroes?
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149620;article=2232>
*************************
Addendum....
(From Les Groshong
Retreads
Tue Oct 22 12:44:35 2002
152.163.189.70

"Subject: Re: WWI Veterans/Marines Recalled for WWII"

from DickG : "Still hoping to see some feedback on your "retreads" question."

Dick, It wont surprise you to learn that I had you in mind when I submitted the question of Retreads. If you don't know, we are probably not going to find out. I am only guessing here, but I don't think the men that I referred to were Reserves or called back for any specialty training.
Since they were used for guard duty and Jeep driving, my guess would be that they were ex-Marines who volunteered to serve and the Corps found an use for them. I suspect that their limitations were noted in their service records.
John Swartz was scheduled to drive the 3/8 communications Jeep, on the Saipan landing, but at the last minute someone decided to keep him on board. I surmise that it was because of his son's presence in the landing force. His son was KIA within hours of the landing.
A man in our outfit told me a few years back that he had met John Swartz at a Second Division Reunion in Dallas - probably in the Sixties. Logic tells me that more should known about these "special Forces", but my thinking doesn't always get me there.






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Re Retreads.... ? Dick Gaines, Tue Oct 22 09:15
Les--Not USMC...but interesting... ? DickG, Sun Oct 20 07:48
Korean War Lament...Humor ? Peter Hayes, Tue Oct 22 06:26
Korean War Ballads ? Dick Gaines, Tue Oct 22 07:07

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 09:11:33 -0700
From: "Willis S. Cole, Jr. "Sam"" <ww1@ww1.org> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
To: wwi-l@raven.cc.ku.edu
Subject: Re: WWI Veterans/Marines Recalled for WWII

Dear Dick:

Sorry to say, I have no direct information on that type of request. Any who were members of the Reserve or Guard were activated, but I have never heard of any that were called back due to military experience other than that. I do know that some specialty occupations, such as railroading and radio had older, experienced people taken in.

I was in the Air Force from 57 to 61 and the Army from 61 to 64. In the Air Force, while in Morocco in 1957/58, we had an old Master Sgt. who was over 60 years old with only one eye. On December 7th, 1941, he had gotten a telephone call to be outside his house and ready to go to the radio relay station in the mountains of California, near LA, that he normally serviced as a civilian.

An officer in a jeep and a 6x6 arrived and he was sworn into the Army in his front yard, at that time he was over 40 and had one eye missing. They took him to the radio area, put up a tent, gave him a gun and told him they would be back in a week, don't leave and keep the radio relay operating.

After a few months, his wife joined him in the tent and they spent the war at the relay station with no relief. Just after the war ended, they told him, he could go home and he refused. You took me like I was and I am going to stay in. They fought it, but he went to a Congressman and some years later, we became acquainted on another mountain top in Morocco. His wife was there with him, but they were living in the village at the bottom of the hill and not on the site. He had just a few more years before he could retire.

So, I don't know of any direct programs taking WWI vets back, but if they happened to be both, including a specialty occupation that was needed, they would have been taken.

In Remembrance and Souvenir!
Willis S. Cole, Jr. "Sam"
Executive Director/Curator
Battery Corporal Willis S. Cole Military Museum
A Non-Profit Corporation
13444 124th Ave NE
Kirkland, WA 98034-5403
425.823.4445 (Tel. & FAX)
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----- Original Message -----
From: R.W.GAINES
To: gyg1345@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 8:44 AM
Subject: WWI Veterans/Marines Recalled for WWII

Searching for info regarding WWI Marines/Veterans
recalled to service for WWII.

Ref
http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149620;article=2232


=====
R.W. "Dick" Gaines, GySgt USMC (Ret.) 1952-72
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Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:15:57 -0600
From: "Pat Holscher" <pat@militaryhorse.org> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
To: wwi-l@raven.cc.ku.edu
Subject: Re: WWI Veterans/Marines Recalled for WWII

Certainly the Guard and Reserves had a fair number of veterans of WWI that were in them, and were called up with their units. I'm aware of one Armory where I live which was named after a Guard veteran who served in WWI and WWII that way. The process was repeated with the Korean War, in which Guardsmen who were veterans of WWII were called up for duty in that war.

Also, you may wish to consider whether there are any officers who meet this critieria. Technically MacArthur, who retired from the U.S. Army in the 30s, might meet this criteria.

This is distinct, of course, from WWI veterans who volunteered to serve in WWII. I'm confident you could find more examples of this.
Keep in mind that enlistement ages for WWII were high, going all the way up to around age 45 in WWII for conscription, and no doubt equally as high for voluneers.
Older conscripts, indeed, are a story that is typically missed, but I've known two WWII veterans who were in their 30s (one nearly at maximum draft age for the first WWII draft) and one who was in his 30s when drafted in WWI.
The idea that they were all right out of high school is in error.

The following from BGen Edwin Simmons' book, The United States Marines A History, 3dEdition, Naval Institute Press, 1974....(page 121-122)

American Defense Service (1939--1941)

On 30 June 1939, there were 18,051 active-duty marines, which made the Corps about the same size as the New York City police force. On 8 September, seven days after Germany marched into Poland, Roosevelt proclaimed a "limited national emergency." For the Marine Corps this meant an increase in enlisted strength of twenty-five thousand and authority to recall volunteer officers and men from the retired list. A year later, on 5 October 1940, the secretary of the Navy ordered the Organized Marine Corps Reserve to active duty. There were twenty-three Reserve battalions totaling 232 officers and 5,009 enlisted men. The battalions were broken up and the personnel used as fillers for the regular establishment.

Semper Fidelis,
Dick Gaines

From :
Groshonglr@aol.com

To :
GunnyG@hotmail.com

Subject :
Re "Retreads"

Date :
Tue, 3 Dec 2002 18:14:18 EST

<> Reply Reply All Forward Delete Printer Friendly Version


Dick,

Just talked to my old First Sergeant from my days in New
Zealand, and
he cannot recall the Retreads coming on board while we were
there.

Since
there was nothing to distinguish them from the rest of us except
their age, I
guess his lack of recall is not surprising. The father-son
relationship may
have been hidden by the fact that the last names were
different- Swartz & Frishman- and probably kept most people from being aware of
their ties.


However, on D-day Saipan, Swartz was assigned to drive the
communications
Jeep, and I was the radio operator, but at the last minute,
someone made a
decision to keep the "old man" on board and I ended up being
both driver and
radio operator.

Someone was well aware of the relationship.
It is possible that these two old timers just volunteered
for active
duty and got it, and there was no concentrated effort to
"recruit" an over
the hill gang.

Les