Macedonia : 4.000 years of Greek history culture and civilization




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Personal message to me from another forum.....

by Prometheus (no login)

1. We don't claim the right on Ancient Macedonia or Alexandar. This is a myth produced by Greek propaganda and fueled by wanna-be-intelectuals from my country and our diaspora with their ridiculous claims, DNA analysis etc, who are unfortenately always the loudest.
2. We don't deny our Slavic roots. In every official history book which is by the way thaught in the schools here, we consider our ancestors to be the Slavs. Ancient Macedonia is never refered to as our legacy.
3. We are not a communist experiment, we are not artificial nation as some claim, we have our own culture and heritige, very similar to the Serbian and Bulgarian one, but still distinct. The fact that our national genesis took a bit longer than with the others doesn't necesarilly mean that we are a sub-culture of the Bulgarians or Serbs.
4. The fact that we identify ourselves as Macedonians is not a product of the "communist propaganda and brainwashing". It is simply the name under which my ancestors started to build our nationhood. We might not trace this back to the ancient times but we can definately trace it to the last 2 centuries.
5. Us identifying as Macedonians is not a threat to Greece, is not an attempt to steal your history or heritige, and the last thing we want to do is deny (try do deny) the right of the Greeks to identify themselves as Macedonians (if they come from this region). If we try to look the things in another way than the balcan black and white way, I'm sure that we can find a solution to share the name.

Now I don't know if these in-sights about your northern neighbour change anything for you, but I had to clarify some things.

I think it is very sad that two neighbouring nations who have so much in common (maybe we have a similar language with the Bulgarians, but you wouldn't beleive how similar are we to Greeks in so many other aspects of life) still pick on each other over such irrelevant matters. It is even sadder that the ignorance on both sides but I have to say especially on the Greek side is so big, that we stigmatize each other on base of very incorrect stereotypes. Of course I don't mean this in a offensive way, it's just that we have much more reasons to travel to Greece than you guys to travel here so we have more chances to see that the world is not black & white as some would like to present it.

PRETTY BRAVE AND HONEST WORDS!!!

BY THE WAY, THE LEAFS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:49 AM
from IP address 67.71.48.200


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I corrected a mistake of yours...

by (no login)

BY THE WAY, THE LEAFS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There, that's better.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 8:31 AM
from IP address 24.42.41.81


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BEST regards Prometheus!

by Nikos (no login)

...i hope that you have not that typical stereotypic way of thinkin as some greek posters here has (if you followed some arguments from me with 'him' in the last days about to be "Macedonian").

Best greetings from Berlin!
Nikos


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:28 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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Tell him that if they call their country Macedonia then they deny our right to be called .

by (Login istor)

.Macedonian and that this is totally unacceptable.

The fact is that in their history school books there is no mention of Macedonians' Greekness while the texts are that smart as to NONE could distinguish ancient Macedonians from those SlavoSkopians !!!

Stefanos could inform us about this!

Don't forget that SlavoSkopians would be really IDIOTS if they insist to be called Macedonian while are not related to ancient Macedonians !!!!!!!!!

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:10 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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MAKEDONOMAXOS 8AGINO! STON OLLYMPO 8ANEVW! NATO FWNAKSO MIAFORA!PWS BARBAROUS 8A SFAZW!

by F (no login)

F

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:15 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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funny how all neo nazi greaks pick on stefanaki and nikos for being non-negating in your

by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)

nazi point of views, we makedonians except them as greaks

makedonians or what ever there choosing, therfore, may I

suggest you follow suit.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:04 AM
from IP address 203.214.45.228


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TI LES VRE SLAVIC RIDICULE!WHAT'S MACEDONIAN ON YOU!WHEN U CAN'T EVEN READ WHAT THE

by MACEDONIANS WROTE!GO BACK TO SLEEP!VLAMENO! (no login)

G

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:21 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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ARHIDI GAMIESE RE POUSTI MALAKAS

by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)

MALAKISMENW VRE POUSTI MALAKA

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:45 AM
from IP address 203.214.45.228


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:28 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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LEO. YOUR MOTHER, AND YOUR GIAGIA INE MEGALOS MALAKAS. HAHHAA MOUNOPANO TOU KERATA.

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:53 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Speaking of suits, Leo...

by (no login)

...what's happening with your father's imaginary lawsuit to get his imaginary land back in Florina?

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 8:46 AM
from IP address 24.42.41.81


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GLIGOROFF>GLIGOROV>WE ARE SLAVS>PSEUDOMACEDONIANS>YUGO-BULGARS--->

by BULGAROSKATA (no login)

<

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:25 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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THE MACEDONIAN CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE BARBARIC BULGARS OF FYROM WILL CONTINUE!WITH MORE

by PASSION&DETERMINATION!UNTILL WE DEFEAT THEM! (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:03 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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VELLEIDIO==>H LAVRA MAKEDONIAS!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:11 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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C'mon Greeks Control Your Retarded Spammers...Shame On You

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

I never thought I'd see the day when this forum would implode from grk spamming alone...I've seen their relentless idiocy on Macedonian forum sites but never imagined they would bring down their own site...

And how this site has devolved...with only a few decent chaps left (stefanos and Nikos) and a few sometimes 'interesting' contributors (DAI, Houhoulis, Diamandi and Boris)...it is no longer even worth a short visit, let alone spending hours at a time reading and responding to posts...

One only needs to open the site and he's 'greeted' with "FACK THIS AND FACK THAT" titles with empty content...

You Greeks pride yourselves on the respect you have earned all over the world, as friendly people, western values, educated and cultured...sadly none of this is evident on this forum...the first time visitor will get an entirely degenerate perception of what it is to be Greek today.

Good work grk spammers and retards alike...



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:41 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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Especially you..

by "DAI" (no login)

deserve this "treatment" because you do the SAME as those spammers..

offending other forum contributors because of lack of arguments.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:44 AM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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Boo Hoo...

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

Stop crying DAI...the day you stop insulting me, my people and my country is the day you will recieve my respect and when I begin to respond to your posts seriously...



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:47 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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You are an insult of yourself..

by "DAI" (no login)

PS. I never said anything about Australians or Australia "your country and people"..

Keep on the "good job"..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:51 AM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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It Is That Type Of Arrogance That Blinds You, DAI

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

I seriously can't believe that you expect me to show you courtesy and respect when its distinctly lacking from your side...

The basic premise of any form of discussion or negotiation is respect for each others views...without this basis there can be no start to discussion.

Do you agree my Greek friend...?

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:56 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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When did you present me with your views?

by "DAI" (no login)

At any point?

Shall I start posting your absurdities and insults instead?

You call me friend after all those insults.. what shall I make of this? Go figure..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:15 AM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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BULGARIAN BASTARDE!MACEDONIA IS NOT FOR DEBATE!WHATS THERE TO DISCUSS!SLAVOBULGARIANS HAVE

by NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MACEDONIANS! (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:41 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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VARDASKA BANANOVINA IS ONLY 21% MAKEDONIAN SOIL... REST IS ALBANIA. WE WANT THE 21% BACK

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:11 AM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:31 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:30 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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Hmmm

by (no login)

1) Practically nobody without any ties to the area has ever been or likely will ever be a regular on this forum, or any forums on your side that I could name. If some outsider really wants to learn about Greece, there are hundreds of other sites one would go to. Only a complete fluke would send someone here.

2) The big-time spammers have been at it here for at least the last two years. You've been here for far longer (five years?), and suddenly now this is a problem for you?

3) The only way to get rid of the spam is for the administrator to act. He has shown absolutely no interest in editing this forum save for removing the occassional post featuring extremely pornographic pictures. I was banned twice from Bill Nicholov's old M-4-M forum simply because he didn't like my opinions, and I was never obscene and never spammed. Given these two extremes, I'll take the total freedom of this forum.

4) We all have three options: learn to live with it, reduce our visits here, or stop visiting here.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:14 AM
from IP address 24.42.41.81


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:29 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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Nikos is Goran a Macedonian or is Stefanos a Macedonian

by Arkadi (no login)

or is Macedonian not an identity???

In my Book Goran is a SlavMmacedonian
while Stefanos is Macedonian

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:30 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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Your 'Book' Isn't The Bible...

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

some would say that your 'book' isn't worth wiping once arse with...

You arrogant fvck...

Get off Niko's case, the guy has a Macedonian friend...get over it.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:44 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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bulgarian pitchika! untill yesterday your fathers were aetheist communists! communism was

by your religion!who r u to judge the bible! (no login)

d

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:02 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:32 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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What kind of Macedonian names is Goran?

by John (no login)

Alexandros, Hephaisteion, Philippos, Cleopatra, Ptolemaios.........Macedonians always had Greek names

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:32 AM
from IP address 220.237.147.71


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goran===>a bulgar! by all means!no questions asked!

by g (no login)

g

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:59 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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Take it as it appears:If he says Matsedonskji and Solun ,so he is a Voulgaros maybe resid

by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)

residing in Skopjie area.But you have always to remember and select the Voulgarophones and Voulgarofrones from the Hellinofrones who also speak the idiom (the Voulgariko idiom around here and the other idiom around Skopjie).

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:51 AM
from IP address 195.66.126.231


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mporeis na mou peis gia poio logo/skopo enas hellinofronos mhlaei thn slavovoulgarikh

by dialecto?when there is no need for it! (no login)

f

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:30 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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Both are! Stef is a greek macedonian and Goran an "slav" macedonian... BUT:

by Nikos (no login)

...within normal friendship BOTH are called Macedonians (in each 'scent'). And someone with a little brain CAN distinguish them (history).

I am more a realist. And thats the way i LOVE.

BEST Regards Arkadi!
Nikos

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:21 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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your stance is respected

by Arkadi (no login)

but how can a person call themselves 'Macedonian' that speaks carbon copy of Bulgarian and insult Greeks like this
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138355834/DoK,+Isn't+This+The+Story+Of+The+'Greeks'...-

Is Feniks a Macedonian??? If you answer yes Ill be bewildered, I know Goran is not a venemous antiGreek but what about this cocksvcker Penix

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:05 PM
from IP address 24.193.2.46


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Re: your stance is respected

by Anonymous (no login)

One can speak slavic but a have a greek heart.
Nikos speaks german and greek but he has spat on Macedonia's greekness.THAT'S WHY HE IS A TRAITOR OF THE CAUSE DECLARED ABOVE

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:08 PM
from IP address 62.1.229.43


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But Goran denies that he is a Slavomacedonian !!

by (Login istor)

while stefanos is proud of his Macedonian identity.

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:49 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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Lets ignore all the spammer irrespective their nationality.

by Ronin (no login)

If you "communicate" with them, they will partcipate more and more. They have nothing relevant to say. Whether "loxias" or "mkont" ....

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:48 AM
from IP address 84.60.144.209


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THE GREEKNESS OF THE MACEDONIANS IS NOT 4DEBATE! IT'S ABOUT WHEN WILL GREECE BE MILITARILY

by READY TO DECLARE WAR AGAINST THE BARBARIANS! (no login)

G

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:58 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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Petros Houhoulis - my response.

by Peperki (no login)

Petros, I would like to thank you for your effort - for writing such a long and thorough post. I appreciate the time and effort you took.

I will readily admit that I do not have such a detailed knowledge of ancient Macedonian history, so I will not try to dispute what you have written. On that same note, I am sure that what you have written can be found in hundreds of books, so how could I possibly dispute the historians? I will answer that later on.

So, what I will try to discuss with you is my opinion (that is what a discussion is, isn’t it?).

You clearly write that there was no Greek or Hellenic state/country, and that it was a “culture” instead, and yet that does not give you any basis for lumping the Macedonians in with the rest of the bunch. You cannot make the sweeping generalization that the ancient Macedonians were the same as the other Hellenic tribes just because they shared the same culture. That is like saying the Chinese and Japanese are the same. Well, which are they, Chinese or Japanese? Sure we can lump them all (with Korean, Thai, Laos etc…) together and call them Asian – but that doesn’t mean that they are THE SAME. Obviously ancient Macedonia outshined the others in conquering the Persians, just as the Athenians outshined everyone else in…., I don’t know…, geometry? To sum it all up, modern Greeks obviously would like to include the ancient Macedonians in their history – and have bits and parts of history to back them up, so the historians come to the same conclusions – but that is only one, GENERAL opinion.

Actually, at this point I want to change the discussion slightly. Have you read “The DaVinci Code”? If you haven’t, I’m sure I can still make my point. The controversy of the book is that Christian history is portrayed completely opposite to what we have been taught. The book gives logical and thought provoking reasons why we have been taught what we have and what the actual truth could be. The point the book tries to make is that what we have known to be true for 2000 years could actually be one big farce. I’m not talking about the spiritual religion ("Jesus Christ our saviour", etc…), I mean the actual story of Christ, Constantine, et al., the whole bible. The key theme is that Christianity as we know it was “created” for the financial gain of those in power (knowing that you are not religious, I am sure you already know that). Having said all that, my point is that if (and it’s a big IF, because the book is fiction) the book is true, then millions of people would have to re-evaluate their beliefs. Many would refuse to do so and many would embrace the new truth and many would be somewhere in between.

It is not in your favour to dispute what you/Greeks have been taught about the ancient Macedonians, you believe it to be true, you have a hundred books that prove it – how could you think otherwise? What I am trying to point out is that your perception of the truth is a little one sided.

Another point I would like to make about history, is that history has always been written by those in power. Those in power can easily influence what is recorded. It happens today, so why wouldn’t it happen 2000 years ago. Macedonians have not had power since Alexander’s time, Macedonians have been under a different rule since then and have NOT had their history recorded by themselves, but by others.

Let’s move on to modern Macedonian history. I am not going to go into much detail about the numerous wars and politics that happened over the past 100 or so years – as with ancient Macedonian history, the same can be said about “modern” history – the Macedonians (and I’ll call ourselves Macedonian, because I do not know any alternative), having been under various different rules for 2000 years, did not have the resources and support to establish a formal, organized leadership – and thus, could not write their own history. Clearly the most valuable aspect of our modern history is the Ilinden uprising. Macedonians wanted an independent Macedonia. Regardless of what a person spoke, or what they were "classified" as (ie: Greek, Vlach, Bulgarian, etc…) they wanted an independent Macedonia (independent of Greece, Bulgaria, etc…). That is my definition of a Macedonian. (the Ilinden uprising is just one example of Macedonian unity)

As you may (or may not) know, my parents come from northern Greece. Many of our customs and language has been taken from the Greeks, however, we are not Greek. Greeks think that we are all Bulgarians because our other customs and majority of our language is similar to Bulgarian. My parents came to Canada without even knowing that there was a province in Yugoslavia called Macedonia. They didn’t have a clue what Tito was supposedly trying to do. My parents are not historians or politicians – all they know is that they were discriminated against, forbidden to speak their own language, forced to learn Greek, etc… When they found out that a Macedonian church was being built in Toronto (and that the congregation was mostly Macedonians from northern Greece), they were ecstatic (in Canada they could worship in Macedonian freely!). When they met Macedonians from Yugoslavia (maybe not from Skopje, but from a village), and could understand them, they were ecstatic. When they first saw books written in Macedonian and not Bulgarian (yes, the languages are different – although a Greek wouldn’t be able to hear the difference), they were ecstatic. Thus, they embraced anything and everything that came from Yugoslavia. After the hardship they experienced in Greece, their Macedonian identity was finally being VALIDATED. Canada was able to give them that, whereas they would never have been able to experience that if they stayed in Greece.

So how can you tell me, when my great-grandparents fought for an independent Macedonia, that I am not Macedonian. If you want to keep your arguments based on your version of ancient Macedonia, then we really have nothing more to discuss.

In your last post you quote me and also wrote “Finally, you are really funny when you suggest that "...only 200 people in Greece think they are Macedonian..." In fact, your problem is that more than 2 million people in Greece declare themselves to be Macedonian, and more than 1 million are indigenous. They just have a different and more accurate meaning for that word...

I don’t disagree that you and 2 million others are Macedonian, however you do not agree that I am Macedonian as well. You seem to believe that only Greeks can be Macedonian. You have been taught the meaning of the word and you think it is accurate, just like in “The DaVinci Code”, maybe you have been taught something that only benefited the powers that be for financial gain. CAN you think differently just for a second? Or is it easier to keep the status quo? Changing the status quo would, in your mind, mean defeat – and yet, that is a very shallow way of looking at history. If you can't open your mind, we don't have anything to discuss.

As for the name issue, unfortunately for you, Greece has lost. We will either get a hyphenated name, or the name "Macedonia" will be spelled with a “j” and “k”. If and when this does happen, maybe then you will be able to alter your perspective of Macedonian history a little bit.

These discussions started because you thought I might have something to discuss, as opposed to me being someone who just wants to insult everyone on the forum. Like I said in the beginning, when I made any progress with anyone in the past on these forums, but then it got "too close to comfort" – because they didn’t want to alter their narrow minded perspective - they would resort to spewing off facts and quotes in defence, which meant the end of the discussion.

We’ll see how you respond now.



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:10 AM
from IP address 70.28.215.99


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IF YOU TRULLY FOUGHT 4MACEDONIA! U WOULD RESPECT THEIR MACEDONIAN HELLENIC LEGACY!INSTEAD

by U DENY THEM!&PORTRAY THEM AS SLAVS!!!! (no login)

W

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:29 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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U FOUGHT 4MACEDONIA 4THE SAKE OF LAND!THE NAME&EVERYTHING THAT GOES WITH IT!NOT 4PATRIOTIC

by REASONS!U R SLAVIC THEIVES!NOT MACEDONIANS! (no login)

]

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:38 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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U DON'T HAVETO FANTASIZE WITH YOUR MIND!ALL U GOT TO DO IS LOOK AT THE INSCRIPTIONS(FACTS)

by MACEDONIANS LEFT US!THEY WERE HELLENES! (no login)

R

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:45 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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THERE IS NO FVCKEN WAY!GREECE WILL ALLOW FYROMS SLAVS TO SLAVISIZE THE GREEKNESS OF THESE

by MACEDONIANS! (no login)

U ARE BULGARIANS!NOT MACEDONIANS!U TRIED TO BULGARIZE MACEDONIA! BY DENYING THE GREEKNESS
by OF THESE MACEDONIANS! (no login)


BULGARIAN IMPOSTER!!!THE HELLENIC ORIGIN OF MACEDONIA IS WRITTEN IN STONE.
by THESE ARE THE MACEDONIANS! (no login)




The names of the kings of ancient Macedonia


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


These are the names of the kings of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. If you can find any non-Greek name in those, then please send me a message, otherwise, you should wonder why they are all Greek...

ARGEAD dynasty and their mythical ancestors

Hercules
Illos
Kleodaios
Aristomachos
Timmenos
Kissios
Thestios
Merops
Aristodamidas
Phidon
Karanos (Late 9th/Early 8th Cent.BC) He built the city Aeges (Vergina)
Koinos (Mid-8th Cent.BC)
Tyrimmas (Late 8th/Early 7th Cent.BC)
Perdikkas I (670-652BC)
Argaios I (652-621BC)
Philippos I (621-588BC)
Aeropos I (588-568BC)
Alketas (568-540BC)
Amyntas I (540-498BC) From this period we have the first historical records
Alexandros I (498-454BC) Participated in the Olympics and received the title of the Philellin
Perdikkas II (454-413BC)
Archelaos I (413-399BC) Made Pella the capital of his kingdom
Orestis (399-396BC)
Aeropos II (396-393BC)
Pausanias (393BC)
Amyntas II the Lioras (393BC)
Amyntas III (392-370BC)
Alexandros II (370-368BC)
Ptolemeos Alorites (368-365BC)
Perdikkas III (365-359BC)
Philippos II (359-336BC) He first managed to unify the Greek states under his hegemony
Alexandros III the Great (336-323BC) His expedition spread the Greek culture and created a great empire
Philippos III Arrhidaios (323-321BC) Brother of Alexander III the Great, mentally incapable
Antipatros (321-319BC) He was appointed king until Alexander IV* would become adult
*Alexandros IV was the son of Alexander III and Roxani and they were both murdered by Kassandros in 310 BC

Immediately after Alexander's III death started the competition between his generals (Ptolemeos, Antigonos, Lysimachos, Eumenis, Leonatos, Seleukos, Dimitrios) for the throne of his empire. Very soon the empire was divided into 5-6 states that competed eachother, until the conquer by the Romans.

RIVAL KINGS: 319-301 BC

Kassandros Son of Antipatros that built Thessaloniki
Antigonos I Monophthalmos (319-301BC)
Dimitrios I Poliorkitis Son of Antigonos
Lysimachos
Seleukos Soter
Ptolemeos Lagos
ANTIPATRID dynasty

Kassandros
Philippos IV
Antipatros
Alexandros V
RIVAL RULERS

Dimitrios I Poliorkitis (294-288BC)
Pyrrhos (288-285BC)
Lysimachos (285-281BC)
Ptolemeos Keravnos (281-279BC) He was defeated by the Galats
ANARCHY

Meleager (279BC)
Antipatros Etesias (279BC)
Sosthenis (279-277BC)
ANTIGONID dynasty

Antigonos II Gonatas (277-239BC) He reorganized the Macedonian kingdom
Dimitrios II (239-229BC)
Antigonos III Doson (229-222BC)
Philippos V (221-179BC)
Perseus (179-168BC) He was defeated by the Romans in 168 at Pydna
As you can see for yourself all the names of the kings are 100% Greek. The "historians" of FYROM, to overcome that problem, simply claim that the kings of Macedonia were hellenized but the people of Macedonia were not Greek! That is a smart trick for a propagandist, but it is very stupid for a historian. They interpret the facts only in the way that suits them best. If the people of Macedonia were not Greek then wouldn't there be any record of any kind of revolution against their "hellenized and therefore hostile" kings? Isn't that logical enough, or do we have to fantasize about ancient and mysterious conspiracies?





Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:52 AM
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BOTTOM LINE===>IF U WERE TRULLY MACEDONIANS!U WOULD WANT TO BE JUST LIKETHEM!BUT INSTEAD

by U DENY THEM&ACT LIKE BULGARIANS! (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:03 AM
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THEREFORE YOU ARE BULGARIANS&NOT MACEDONIANS!

by F (no login)

F

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:05 AM
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WHICH FATHER! DENIES TO NAME HIS SON AFTER HIS FATHER!! MAKES SENSE!

by D (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:07 AM
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by AJVAROVSKI (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:08 AM
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Some quick notes..

by "DAI" (no login)

The point of Petros is that if one questions the Hellenicity of the ancient Macedonians, then you can question the Hellenicity of all other ancient Greek states. How do we know that Athenians were Hellenes?

All I know is that I can read their texts (like in the Museum of Louvre) but so can a classic scholar.

Ethnicity is a shared state of mind with tangible manifestations though.

You say that you are Macedonian (which is your right of course) and that it's fine with you that some 2.5 million Greeks say that they are Macedonians too.

How can you say that though? Your "Macedonia" 's national anthem praises some Bulgarian high school teachers. Ours not.

Our Macedonians were preached Christianity by Apostle Paul (hence the Epistles to Thessaloniceans and Philippeans). Your "Macedonians" were preached Christianity by the Apostles of the Slavs of which you are so "proud" of.

Our Macedonians fought against Hitler in World War II. Your Macedonians greeted them and the Bulgarians as liberators!

For us, Macedonia goes up to Bitola (Heraclea Lychnidos). For you it includes Skopjie, the capital of the ancient Dardanians and Tito Veles the capital of the Paeonians all of which were at war with the Macedonians.

And so on and so on..

It has been shown that the "Macedonia for Macedonians" was a moto conceived by the Bulgars to appease the great powers who just 25 years ago cut in pieces their "great Bulgaria" which was a Russian Panslavistic creation to begin with. For sure the moto appealed to most of the people of Macedonia at the time shicne they were seeing the Serbians, Greeks and Bulgarians getting their freedom and themselves staying under the Turks.

We see how nations are created... and Tito's Macedonians are not an exception. Are not the Austrians Germans? Are not the Montenegrins Serbians? Are not the Cypriots Greeks? Are not the Taiwanese Chinese?

Anyway the case is not lost. There will be a compromise over a shared use of the term Macedonia till the Albanians overtake you and unite with mainland Albania and this will be the end of the story.

We will be both dead by then so why worry?

PS. As for Da Vinci Code... Of course Christianism died when it became a state sponsored religion like all other religions before and after that..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:14 AM
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I disagree with what you say, but more so on these two points.

by Peperki (no login)

You said: "Our Macedonians were preached Christianity by Apostle Paul (hence the Epistles to Thessaloniceans and Philippeans). Your "Macedonians" were preached Christianity by the Apostles of the Slavs of which you are so "proud" of."

That opinion is completely ludicrous. There is NO WAY you can say the Paul only preached to Greeks - try and distort the bible a little more, won't you.

You said: "Our Macedonians fought against Hitler in World War II. Your Macedonians greeted them and the Bulgarians as liberators!"

If it wasn't for the slavs, Greece would be singing the German anthem right now! Please, please, PLEASE find me some quote to prove that MY Macedonians greeted the Nazi's as liberators.

Either you don't know the bible and history, or you are so completely narcissistic that you can't see straight.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:49 AM
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LISTEN SLAVIC AETHEIST COMMIE!THE APOSTLES DID PREACH IN GREEK!NOT IN SLAVIC!BECAUSE THEY

by KNEW MACEDONIANS WERE GREEKS!NOT SLAVS! (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:57 AM
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AND OFCOURSE THEY PREACHED FOR ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:59 AM
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YOU DID GREETED THE NAZIS AS LIBERATORS!WHILE WE RESISTED!& BY DELAY THEM CRITICAL TIMING

by THEY LOST THE WAR! (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:07 AM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:34 AM
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FYROMS ETHNOGENESIS

by . (no login)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137655920/risto+stefov+the+propaganda+of+stupidities

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:30 AM
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FYROMS ETHNOGENISIS

by . (no login)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137655920/risto+stefov+the+propaganda+of+stupidities

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:29 AM
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AT 800 BC THE MACEDONIAN ETHNOGENESIS WAS REALITY,MACEDONIANS USE TH CITY STATES CALTURE

by FOR THEIR OWN BENEFITS, (no login)

At 800BC Homer never Call you Hellenes, 499 BC the name was YAUNA,at the middle Ages the
by ITALIANS CALL YOU GRAECI (no login)


Homer lived many generations after the Trojan War.
The Greeks of the epics didn't describe themselves as Greeks (Hellenes), but as Achaeans, Danaans, etc.
"Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name .... The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name, nor indeed any of them

except the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes: in his poems they are called Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans"
- Thucydides


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships


The Yaunâ in Asia Minor revolted in 499, but they were subjected again. Now, it was clear to the Persian government that the possessions in Asia Minor could be safe only when the Yaunâ in the west were subjected as well.

Two years later, king Darius sent a new expedition to the west. The commanders were Datis and Artaphernes. Herodotus presents the expedition as a punitive action against Eretria and Athens, who had helped the Ionians during their revolt of 499.

The modern English word Greek is derived from Latin Graecus, which in turn comes from Greek Γραικός (Graikos), the name of a Boeotian tribe that migrated to Italy in the 8th century BC, and it is by that name the Hellenes were known in the West. Homer, while reciting the Boeotian forces in the Iliad's Catalogue of Ships, provides the first known reference to a Boeotian city named Graea,[24] and Pausanias mentions that Graea was the name of the ancient city of Tanagra.[25] Cumae, a city lying to the west of Neapolis (now Naples) and south of Rome, was founded by Cymaeans and Chalkideans as well as Graeans who by coming into contact with Romans may very well be responsible for naming all Hellenic speaking tribes Graeci. The modern Italian city of Grai was also founded in antiquity by Graeans.




The concept of Hellene for a person of Greek origin was already well established since the late Middle Ages, but for the majority of the population, especially those in rural areas away from urban centers, the dominant perception was still that of a Roman, a descendant of the Byzantine Empire. Scholar Rigas Feraios called "Bulgars and Arvanites, Armenians and Romans" to rise in arms against the Ottomans.[57] General Makrygiannis recalled a friend asking him: "What say you, is the Roman far away from coming? Are we to sleep with the Turks and awaken with the Romans?"[58]

Greek (Γραικός) was the least popular of the three terms, but interestingly enough received by scholars disproportionately larger attention compared to its popular use. Adamantios Korais, a renowned Greek classicist, justified his preference in A Dialogue between Two Greeks: "Our ancestors used to call themselves Greeks





Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:23 AM
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by YUGOBULGAROSKATA (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:01 AM
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AT 800 BC, THE MACEDONIAN ETHNOS HAVE A NAME ! DID THE CITY STATES HAVE A NAME ?

by WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE CITY STATE ETHNOS ? (no login)

i`m gonna waiting your answers

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:08 AM
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Antio Skopianoproskynhmeno forum

by Kostas (no login)

Farewell, dear forum.
Ana8ema to xrono pou perasa diabazontas tis malakies sas edw mesa.Se afhnw me tous amorfotous "oneliners" sou, ton akathoristou ethikothtas apostath Niko, tous Skopianous filous tou na ton xeirokrotoun, kai tous Ellhnes kai ellhnikhs katagwghs amerikanous sou na propagandizoun to dikaiwma twn Skopianwn sto onoma twn Makedonwn gia xarh ths "eirhnhs", ths "adefosynhs" kai ths "istorikis alitheias".

"Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek culture and civilization".
Ante geia!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:22 AM
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YG: Stefane h proklhsh pantos isxyei

by Anonymous (no login)

Phgaine na ftiakseis forum "ellhno-makedonikhs filias". Ora na to kleisoume to magazi...

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:26 AM
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Adikeis tov eauto sou...

by "DAI" (no login)

Me auta pou grafeis...

Eisai sigouros oti diabases prosektika to prwto minima tou Nikou?

Dev to vomizw..

O ka8e av8rwpos exei to dikaiwma tou autoprosdiorismou... auto mnv to 3exvas.

To forum gia meva ntav kai eivai megaln pngn plnrofornsns kai proklnsns autwv pou vomiza kai vomizw pou telika 8emeliwvei tekmeriwmeva ta osa pisteuw.

Autoi oi av8rwpoi eivai ta megalutera 8umata tns Balkavikns paravoias. Opws pame 8a mas 3avagivouv Boulgaroi kai 8a ta broume mprosta mas.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:47 AM
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DAI den ta pas kala

by s (no login)

autoi oi anthrwpoi einai boulgaroi.



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:09 AM
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Einai...

by "DAI" (no login)

Alla sumferon mas einai na min einai!!!

Gia katse na enothoun me tous allous Boulgarous kai na exoun tin anoixti koilada tou Aksiou 80 km apo Thessaloniki kai tha sou po ego...

Mia xara ta paw..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:29 AM
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Kosta, ypervalleis....

by (Login istor)

Einai men Voulgarikhs katagwghs alla misoun thn katagwgh tous. Apokleietai na ginoun Voulgaroi. Allwste emeis den 8eloume na ginoun, aplws 8eloume na mhn legontai Makedones. An vroume lysh 8a yposthri3oume ton diazwrsmo apo touw Voulgarous. Einai 8ema propagandas.

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:18 PM
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THERE IS NO DOUBT!OFCOURSE THEY ARE!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:11 AM
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Ãéá ôåëåõôáßá öïñÜ

by Êþóôáò (no login)

Ðïéï äéêáßùìá áõôïðñïóäéïñéóìïý âñå DAI?Áêïýãåóôå åäþ ìÝóá óáí ÷áëáóìÝíï pick-up, áíáìáóþíôáò êÜèå øåõäï-áíèñùðéóôéêÞ áíïçóßá ðïõ óáò Ý÷ïõí óåñâßñåé ïé "makedonci".
Áõôïðñïóäéïñéóìüò åßíáé ç áðÜôç êáé ç ðáñÜíïéá?ÁõôÜ ôá ðñÜãìáôá åßíáé ðñùôïöáíÞ.
ÂñåèÞêáìå ìå áðüöáóç åõñùðáúêïý äéêáóôçñßïõ íá áðáãïñåýåôáé óå ìáêåäïíéêïýò óõëëüãïõò ôçò Éôáëßáò íá öÝñïõí ôï üíïìá "ìáêåäïíßá" åöüóïí äåí áõôïðñïóäéïñßæïíôáé ùò ïìïåèíåßò ôùí Óêïðéáíþí. Ìáêåäüíåò ôçò äéáóðïñÜò Ý÷ïõí ðÜøåé íá ÷ñçóéìïðïéïýí áõôü ôï üíïìá ãéáôß ôïõò ðåñíÜíå ãéá Óêïðéáíïýò Üëëïé ¸ëëçíåò ìåôáíÜóôåò.
70% ôçò âéâëéïãñáößáò óå Harvard,Princeton kai Columbia áñíïýíôáé ôçí åëëçíéêÞ êáôáãùãÞ ôùí ìáêåäüíùí.90% áìöéóâçôåß ôç óçìáíôéêÞ ðáñïõóßá åëëÞíùí óå áõôü ôï ÷þñï êáôÜ ôï 19ï áéþíá.
Ìáò ðáñïõóéÜæïõí äéåèíþò ùò êáôáðáôçôÝò ôçò èåóóáëïíßêçò áêüìç êáé óå åðßóçìá Ýããñáöá ôùí óôñáôéùôéêþí áðïóôïëþí ôùí ÇÐÁ óôá âáëêÜíéá êáé åóý ìïõ ìéëÜò ãéá áõôïðñïóäéïñéóìïýò?

Óå ðáñáêáëþ.Áó÷ïëåßóôå ôüóá ÷ñüíéá ìå áõôÜ ôá èÝìáôá êáé äåí Ý÷åôå êáôáëÜâåé ÔÉÐÏÔÁ?

Ãéá ðïéá èýìáôá ìéëÜò?Êáé ïé Ãåñìáíïß ôïõ ìåóïðïëÝìïõ Þôáí èýìáôá ìå ôçí ßäéá ëïãéêÞ.Ôï ßäéï êáé ïé ÓïõäÞôåò.
Óçìáßíåé áõôü üôé äåí áðïôÝëåóáí êßíäõíï ðñþôïõ ìåãÝèïõò ãéá êáìßá ÷þñá?

Êáé Ýñ÷åôáé ôþñá ï Íéêïò íá ìáò ðåßóåé ãéá ôç ìáêåäïíéêüôçôá áõôþí ôùí áíèñþðùí?íá õðåñçöáíåõôåß ãéá ôçí áõôïíïìéóôéêÞ äñÜóç ôïõ èåßïõ ôïõ óôçí êáóôïñéÜ êáé üôé èá Ýñèåé óôçí ìáêåäïíßá íá áíé÷íåýóåé ôéò ñßæåò ôïõ?Áí áéóèÜíåôáé ¸ëëçíáò áò ðÜåé íá êáôá÷ùíéáóôåß êÜðïõ áðü íôñïðÞ ãéá üóá åßðå êáé ôï öôýóéìï ðïõ Ýñéîå óôïõò ìáêåäüíåò óõìðáôñéþôåò ôïõ êÜèå öïñÜ ðïõ ìéëïýóå ãéá "Ìáêåäüíåò" ôýðïõ Goran.
Þ õðåñáóðßæåóáé ôá óõìöÝñïíôá êáé ôçí áêåñáéüôçôá ôçò ÷þñáò óïõ Þ üôáí äåí èÝëåéò íá ôï ðñÜîåéò, óùðáßíåéò ãéá íá ìçí êÜíåéò ìåãáëýôåñç æçìéÜ.Êáé ðñáãìáôéêÜ äåí âëÝðù êáíÝíá ëüãï íá óõíå÷éóôåß áõôü ôï forum üôáí åäþ õðü ôïí ôßôëï "Ìáêåäüíåò åßíáé ïé ¸ëëçíåò" áðëÜ ðñïðáãáíäßæåôáé ôï "áíèñùðéóôéêü äñÜìá" ôùí óêïðéáíþí ðïõ äåí ôïõò áíáãíùñßæïõìå ùò Ìáêåäüíåò.êáé ìÜëéóôá üëá áõôÜ áðü ¸ëëçíåò!

ÌéëÜò ãéá ìåãÜëç Âïõëãáñßá.
ÎÝñåéò ðïëý êáëÜ üôé äåí åõíïåßôáé ðëÝïí ç äçìéïõñãßá ìåãÜëùí,åíéáßùí êáé åèíéêÜ éó÷õñþí ïíôïôÞôùí.
Áíôßèåôá åðéäéþêåôáé ï êáôáêåñìáôéóìüò Üõôïý ôïõ ÷þñïõ óå ïëïÝíá ìéêñüôåñá, ïéêïíïìéêþò áóèåíÝóôåñá, åóùôåñéêþò äé÷áóìÝíá êáé åèíïëïãéêþò "ïìé÷ëþäç" ìïñöþìáôá ôýðïõ "Makedonia"
ÁõôÜ ðïõ ðñÝðåé íá öïâÜóáé åßíáé ôá êñáôßäéá ôýðïõ fyrom êáé " ôïõñêéêÞò äçìïêñáôßáò ôçò âüñåéáò êýðñïõ" ãéáôß áõôÜ áêñéâþò ôá êñáôßäéá óõíÞèùò Ý÷ïõí ðßóù ôïõò ðïëý éó÷õñüôåñåò äõíÜìåéò ïé ïðïßåò ôá ÷ñçóéìïðïéïýí, ôá åëÝã÷ïõí êáé ôá êáèïäçãïýí ðëÞñùò.
Ðñïðáãáíäßæïíôáò ôéò èÝóåéò ôùí óêïðéáíþí ðåñß ìáêåäïíéóìïý óôïõò ¸ëëçíåò íïìßæåéò üôé âëÜðôåéò ôïõò Âïýëãáñïõò Þ üôé ðñïóôáôåýåéò ôç ÷þñá óïõ?Ôüôå áò ðÜøïõí íá îïäåýïõí ôüóá åêáôïììýñéá äïëëÜñéá ãéá "äùñåÝò" óôï Harvard,Princeton,etc,etc Greek helsinki Monitor êáé ëïéðüí ðñïïäåõôéêþí äõíÜìåùí Þ íá óôçñßæïõí ôïõò áîéüôéìïõò Ýëëçíåò êáèçãçôÝò ôýðïõ Ricky Van Boeschoten, Karakasidou êáé ÔóéÜêáëïõ.Áò êÜíïõìå ìüíïé ìáò ôç äïõëåéÜ áõôÞ äùñåÜí, áöïý åßíáé áõôÞ ç ëýóç êáé äåí ôï åß÷áìå êáôáëÜâåé ôüóï êáéñü....
¹ôáí ôéìÞ ìïõ ç óõæÞôçóç ìáæß óïõ, üìùò äåí âëÝðù êáíÝíá ëüãï íá óõíå÷ßóù íá áó÷ïëïýìáé ìå áõôÞ ôçí îåöôßëá åäþ ìÝóá.
Áíôßï

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:58 AM
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FILE! H LUSH EINAI MIA! "ELEFTHERIA H THANATOS" AKOMA MIA FORA!

by D (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:13 AM
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Êáìßá ôåëåõôáßá öïñÜ...

by "DAI" (no login)

Áýñéï ðÜëé åäþ èá åßóáé..

Ðïõ ëåò... ï Ìáêåäïíéóìüò åßíáé êáé ÅëëçíéêÞ åöåýñåóç... âëÝðåéò êé åìÜò ìáò âüëåõå ç áðïÂïõëãáñïðïßçóç ôùí ÂïõëãÜñùí ôüôå (ðñþôï ìéóü ôïõ 20ïõ áéþíá).

Ãéá ôïí ßäéï ëüãï äå÷èÞêáìå ôçí äéäáóêáëßá óôá Ôïýñêéêá ôùí ÐïìÜêùí ìÞðùò êáé ìáò Âïõëãáñßóïõí êáé ðÜëé.

¸÷ù óðßôé ìïõ ÷Üñôç ôïõ ðáððïý ìïõ áðü ôá 1925 (óôñáôéùôéêÞ ãåùãñóáößá óôç ó÷ïëÞ åõåëðßäùí) ðïõ áíáöÝñåôáé óå 80.000 ÓëÜâïõò ôçò Ìáêåäïíßáò Þ áëëéþò "Ìáêåäüíåò".. ôçí ßäéá åðï÷Þ ðïõ ïé ÓÝñâïé åãêáôÝëåéðáí ôéò ðñïóðÜèåéÝò ôïõò íá ôïõò ðåßóïõí üôé åßíáé Óåñâïé..

Óå Üëëï ÷Üñôç ôïõ 1947 ïé ßäéïé áíáöÝñïíôáé ùò Âïýëãáñïé! Êáé ìçí áêïýóù ôßðïôå ãéá ôïí ðáððïý ìïõ ðïõ Þôáí õðáóðéóôÞò ôïõ ÊáôóéìÞôñïõ óôçí Ðßíäï êáé áñ÷éÄåîéüò óôïí åìöýëéï.

ÔåëïóðÜíôùí âëÝðåéò ìéá ïìÜäá ðëçèõóìïý ôçí ïðïßá Ý÷ïõí äïêéìÜóåé íá ôçí åêóåñâßóïõí, åðáíáâïõëãáñïðïéÞóïõí (1914-1918 êáé 1941-1944) êáé åîåëëçíßóïõí Þ íá êáôáäéþîïõí ùò Âïýëãáñïõò ëüãù ôçò ãëþóóáò ôïõò.

Å êáé áõôïß ôé íá êÜíïõí, áóðÜóôçêáí ôïí ôïðéêéóìü ôïõò ðïõ Ýíôå÷íá åíéó÷ýèçêå áðü Ôßôï êáé Ýãéíáí "Ìáêåäïíéêþôåñïé ôùí Ìáêåäüíùí" üðùò ïé ãåíßôóáñïé ãßíïíôáí Ïèùìáíéêþôåñïé ôùí Ïèïìáíþí.

Ôá ßäéá ìðïñåßò íá äåéò êáé óôçí Êýðñï óÞìåñá.. Ðïëëïß ëÝíå áñêåôÜ ìå ¸ëëçíåò, Ôïýñêïõò, êôë êôë.. åßìáóôå Êýðñéïé, ìå ôéò åðåìâëáóåéò óáò ìáò Ý÷åôá ðñÞîåé êáé íá ðÜôå íá ðíéãåßôå..

ÅðåéäÞ ðáñåîçãÞèçêá óå ó÷Ýóç ìå áõôü ðïõ åßðá ìå ôï äéêáßùìá ôïõ áõôïðñïóäïñéóìïý.. åííïïýóá ôïí áôïìéêü. ÅðåéäÞ ôï Ý÷ù óõæçôÞóåé êáé ìå "Óêïðéáíïýò" (áõôü ôé åßíáé ðÜëé áí ü÷é ìéá ðñïóâïëÞ åê ìÝñïõò ôùí ÅëëÞíùí åéò âÜñïò ôïõò ôïõò Ý÷ù åîçãÞóåé üôé óÝâïìáé ôïí áõôï÷áñáêôçñéóìü ôïõò ùò ôÝôïéïõò áëëÜ äåí ìðïñþ íá äå÷èþ ôçí ýðáñîç Üëëçò ÌáêåäïíéêÞò ïíôüôçôáò åêôüò ôçò åõñýôåñçò ÅëëçíéêÞò êáé ü,ôé õðÜñ÷åé ðñüâëçìá "ïñéóìþí" üðùò ãñÜöù êáé ðéï ðÜíù: http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138320863/Some+quick+notes ...

ÁõôÜ ðïõ ëåò åóý åßíáé ðåñéðôþóåéò ðïõ áöïñïýí ïìÜäåò áíèñþðùí êáé öõóéêÜ ùò ôÝôïéïé "Ìáêåäüíåò" äåí õößóôáíôáé Üëëïé åêôüò áðü ôïõò ¸ëëçíåò Ìáêåäüíåò.

Ôï èÝìá åßíáé ðùò èá ôïõò ðñïóåããßóïõìå ãéá íá ôïõò êÜíïõìå äéêïýò ìáò. Ç êÜñôá ôïõ áíôéÂïõëãáñéóìïý ôïõò åßíáé ðïëý éó÷õñÞ êáé ðÜìå êáëÜ óå áõôü. Ìå ôï íá ðñïóðáèïýìå íá ôïõò ðåßóïõìå ü,ôé åßíáé Âïýëãáñïé (Üëëï áí åßíáé!) ôïõò óôÝëíïìå óôçí áãêáëéÜ ôçò Âïõëãáñßáò.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:39 AM
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ÐñïóðÜèçóá íá åîçãÞóù êáé óôïí Ôüíé

by Anonymous (no login)

Ìéá óçìåßùóç: Üëëï óëáâüöùíïò êáé Üëëï ÓëÜâïò.Óôçí åëëçíéêÞ âéâëéïãñáößá õðÜñ÷åé ìåãÜëç óýã÷çóç.ÊÜíïíôáò áíáöïñÝò óå óõëëïãéêÝò "óëáâïìáêåäïíéêÝò" ôáõôüôçôåò äéáéùíßæïõí ôçí áìÜèåéá.

Óôï Óôñåìðåíï äõôéêÞò Ìáêåäïíßáò ð.÷. ïé êÜôïéêïé Ý÷ïõí êáôáãùãÞ áðü Âüëï êáé ¢ãñáöá ðåñéï÷Ýò äß÷ùò óëáâéêÞ ðáñïõóßá.
üìùò ìÝ÷ñé ðñéí ìåñéêÝò äåêáåôßåò åß÷áí õéïèåôÞóåé ôá óëáâéêÜ ùò ìçôñéêÞ ãëþóóá.ÓëáâéêÞ ãëþóóá äåí óçìáßíåé êáé óëáâéêÞ êáôáãùãÞ.
Åðßóçò, ¢ëëá åßíáé ôá óëáâéêÜ óôç öëþñéíá êáé Üëëá óôçí ¸äåóóá.Áêüìç êáé ìÝóá óôç öëþñéíá ôá ìéëÜíå áëëéþò ìåôáîý ôïõò.ÄéáöïñåôéêÝò ïìÜäåò ìåôáîý ôïõò.Äåí êáôáëáâáßíïíôáé.Áêüìç êáé ãéá åßäç êáèçìåñéíÞò ÷ñÞóçò äåí Ý÷ïõí êïéíÞ ëÝîç.Ôï êïõôÜëé ð.÷. åßíáé ãéá Üëëïõò lasitza kai gia Üëëïõò bulela.
¼óï ãéá ôç ãëþóóá ôùí óêïðßùí áõôÞ åßíáé êáèáñÜ ôå÷íçôü êáôáóêåýáóìá.Áõôü åßíáé ðïõ ðñïóðÜèçóá íá ðù óôïí ôüíõ üôáí Ýãñáöå óõëëÞâäçí ãéá "óëáâüöùíïõò ìáêåäüíåò".
¼ôáí Ýãéíå ï â' Ðáãêüóìéïò ïé åëëçíéêÝò áñ÷Ýò ìïßñáæáí ðñïêçñýîåéò "Âïýëãáñå ðÜñå ôá üðëá êáé õðåñáóðßóïõ ôç ÷þñá óïõ"
¼ëïé äçëáäÞ óå Ýíá ôóïõâÜëé.Ìáæß êáé ïé ¸ëëçíåò öëùñéíéþôåò.Ãéá áõôü ëïéðüí Üóå ôá âéâëßá ôùí óôñáôéùôéêþí ó÷ïëþí.ÌÜèå åðßóçò, ðùò
¼ôáí ðÞãáéíáí ìåôáíÜóôåò óôçí áìåñéêÞ êáé Ýìðáéíáí óå åëëçíéêÞ åêêëçóßá ïé ðáðÜäåò åêåß óõíÞèùò Þôáí áðü ðåëïðüíçóï, ïðüôå ôïõò ñùôïýóáí: "áðü ðïý åßóáé åóý?Ìáêåäïíßá?(åäþ îýíéæáí ôá ìïýôá ôïõò.êáé ôé ãëþóóá ìéëÜò?Á!!!ìá åóý äåí åßóáé Ýëëçíáò.¸÷åé âïõëãáñéêÞ åêêëçóßá áðÝíáíôé".
Óôçí åêêëçóßá ìÜëéóôá ðïõ Þôáí ðáðÜò ï ðáôÝñáò ôïõ George Stefanopoulos, Ýâãáéíå óôï ôÝëïò ôçò ëåéôïõñãßáò êáé Ýøåëíå ìå Ýíá äßóêï ãéá ÷ñÞìáôá"Äßíåôå íá óáò åõëïãåß ï èåüò.Íá öôéÜîåôå äéêÞ óáò åêêëçóßá íá ìçí ðéÜíåôå ôá óôáóßäéá ðïõ åßíáé ãéá ôïõò ¸ëëçíåò"
ÊÜôóå áêüìá êáé óêÝøïõ ãéáôß ç "óêïðéáíÞ" ôáõôüôçôá áíáðôý÷èçêå êõñßùò óå áõôïýò ðïõ õðÝóôçóáí ôçí ðïëéôéêÞ êáèïäÞãçóç ôïõ Ê.Ê.Å.ÄéÜâáóåò ôá äçìáãùãéêÜ äçìïóéåýìáôÜ ôïõò ðïõ ðáñÝèåóá óôïí ÓôÝöáíï.
Ðïý åß÷å îáíáêïýóåé ï Üó÷åôïò êáé áìüñöùôïò áãñüôçò óôá óýíïñá ðåñß ìáêåäïíéêïý Ýèíïõò?
Ôá ôïðéêÜ üñãáíá ôïõ êüììáôïò åß÷áí áíáëÜâåé ôçí ðñïþèçóç ìéáò ðïëý óõãêåñêéìÝíçò ðïëéôéêÞò ç ïðïßá åß÷å ðñï-áðïöáóéóôåß áðü ôçí êïìéíôåñí.Áêüìç êáé çìåñïëüãéá ðïõ áðåéêüíéæáí ôéò åíùìÝíåò ôñåéò ìáêåäïíßåò ôýðùíáí êáé ôá ìïßñáæáí ðñïò äéáóðïñÜ æéæáíßùí óôïõò ÷ùñéêïýò.
Ï ïðáäüò ôïõ Ê.Ê. ðïõ ìåôåîåëß÷ôçêå óå "óëáâïìáêåäüíá" åß÷å ëïéðüí õðïóôåß êáôáðßåóç, åíþ ï äåîéüò ðïõ ìåôåîåëß÷ôçêå óå âïýëãáñï ü÷é?
Êáé ãéáôß Üëëïé ðáñÝìåéíáí Ýëëçíåò?êÜôé ëåßðåé ëïéðüí áðü ôçí êïóìïèåùñßá óïõ.




Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:28 AM
from IP address 62.1.107.121


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WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS! OTAN EISAI SLAVOFONOS SHNITHOS EISAI SLAVOS!BECAUSE YOU HAVE SLAVIC

by CONSCIENCE! (no login)

X

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:52 AM
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The truth is that this forum can be more meaningfull! something has to change!

by d (no login)

d

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:26 AM
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FILE! EAN OI PROGONOIMAS EIXAN TO DIKOSOU THAROS!YPOMONH!ORAMA! ELLADA DEN THA YPHRXE!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:33 AM
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Êþóôá,ðñþôç öïñÜ óå äéáâÜæù êáé áðïñþ ãéáôß äåí óå Ý÷ù äéáâÜóåé ðñßí.Íïìßæù üôé ðñÝðåé íá

by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)

ìåßíåéò ãéáôß ï "÷ïñüò êáëÜ êñáôåß" êáé åðåéäÞ ôçí ñáóôþíç ôùí ôåëåõôáßùí 50 ÷ñüíùí ðñÝðåé íá ôç áíáðëçñþóïõìå êáé íá ðñïëÜâïõìå ôï ôñáßíï.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:46 AM
from IP address 195.66.126.231


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AKRIBWS!

by B (no login)

B

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:16 PM
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DIKAIOMA TWN SKOPIANWN? TI ENOEIS??

by Q (no login)

propagandizoun to dikaiwma twn Skopianwn sto onoma twn Makedonwn gia xarh ths "eirhnhs", ths "adefosynhs" kai ths "istorikis alitheias".


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:17 AM
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SLAVOGLYFTRA ESU EISAI!!NA PAS TO KALO!&KALO TAXIDI!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:48 AM
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Response to the filoskopianoi Nikos-Feniks-Goran

by Kostas (no login)


http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138276841/Is+The+Forum+Owners+Name++Sideris...---
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138222166/Goran+is+a+MACEDONIAN%21

Sho gluposti se ovie be!!! Sram na tebe fyro-zombies!!!
jas sum Macedonec od Kastoria.Feniks, povekje Macedonec sum od tebe. Jas ziveem i rabotam tuka vo
Makedonija (vo Grcija, ako site znaat deka: Makedonija=Grcija) ama ti
kaj si i kaj ziveesh i rabotish?
Zoshto be ne sakate i vie da
bidete Grcite? I sho barate na forumo? Ajde, nazad na Skopjenistan!
Ajde mrsh!

Kostas -Macedonec od glaa do peti





Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:02 AM
from IP address 195.74.237.200


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Re: Response to the filoskopianoi Nikos-Feniks-Goran

by Anonymous (no login)


http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138276841/Is+The+Forum+Owners+Name++Sideris...---
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138222166/Goran+is+a+MACEDONIAN%21

Sho gluposti se ovie be!!! Sram na tebe fyro-zombies!!!
jas sum Macedonec od Kastoria.Feniks, povekje Macedonec sum od tebe. Jas ziveem i rabotam tuka vo
Makedonija (vo Grcija, ako site znaat deka: Makedonija=Grcija) ama ti
kaj si i kaj ziveesh i rabotish?
Zoshto be ne sakate i vie da
bidete Grcite? I sho barate na forumo? Ajde, nazad na Skopjenistan!
Ajde mrsh!

Kostas -Macedonec od glaa do peti


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:24 AM
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Da Ti Go Ebam Plemeto Tursko

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

Ti ne si Makedonec, ti si edno divo, mrsno, Tursko kuche.

'Kostas' = 'Istor' = 'iPontus'


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:21 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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I think you confuse names & persons here...

by Nikos (no login)

...Nikos & Nikos.

BYE!
Nikos

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:18 AM
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Nikos, if Greeks do not have any Human Rights protection

by s (no login)

Over the name Macedonia and the Slavs do, then you are not only biased but also a peice of filth.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:24 PM
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Of course they have. (A tip from me: don't jump that easily at the bandwagon...)

by Nikos (no login)

...against me.)

Nikos

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:17 AM
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Skopjeans stick together. Greeks are fighting each other.

by Pericles (no login)

Skopjeans stick together but Greeks are fighting each other here on this forum.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:07 PM
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Stefane

by Kostas (no login)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138277241/answer

I insist that any Greek who uses the term Macedonian in such a way is an ignorant.Nikos is a traitor of the cause declared in this website, because he insists on using the name "macedonian" the way he does with Goran and then tries to develop (a rather unsuccessful) argumentation to persuade others of Goran's "macedonianess".Åßíáé åíôåëþò áíÜëãçôïò óå æçôÞìáôá ðïõ áöïñïýí ôçí åèíéêÞ áêåñáéüôçôá ôçò ÷þñáò ìïõ êáé áðü ï,ôé åßðá ãéá áõôüí äåí ðáßñíù ðßóù ïýôå ëÝîç.Áõôüò åßíáé ï ðñþôïò ðïõ åîáðÝëõóå ðñïóùðéêïýò ÷áñáêôçñéóìïýò.¼÷é åãþ.
èõìÜìáé ðÜñá ðïëý êáëÜ üôé åß÷áôå ðÝóåé íá öÜôå æùíôáíü åêåßíïí ôïí áíÞëéêï ÓÝñâï ðñéí ìåñéêÜ ÷ñüíéá åðåéäÞ áðïêáëïýóå ôïõò Óêïðéáíïýò "ìáêåäüíåò".
ÌÝ÷ñé êáé ôçí ðïëéôéêÞ Ìéëüóåâéôò ôïõ åß÷áôå ÷ñåþóåé! êáé ôþñá èá ìïõ ðåéò üôé ðñÝðåé íá áðïäå÷ôþ ôéò ìåéïäïôéêÝò èÝóåéò ôïõ Íßêïõ áäéáìáñôýñçôá?ÔïõëÜ÷éóôïí áò Þôáí óõíåðÞò ìå üóá ðéóôåýåé êáé áò ìçí äéáìáñôõñüôáí ðïõ ôïõ "Ýêëåøáí ôï üíïìá Íßêïò"
Áõôü ôïõ åðåóÞìáíá êáé ìå Ýâñéóå.Áí åß÷å áðïäå÷ôåß ôïí üñï "Óëáâïìáêåäüíáò" Þ ôïí óëáâéêü üñï "Makedonci" ðïõ ÷ñçóéìïðïéïýí óôç ãëþóóá áõôÞ (ü÷é üìùò ôïí üñï Macedonian ðïõ åßíáé ðïëý åõñýôåñïò), êáô 'ïéêïíïìßáí êáé ãéá ïñéóìÝíåò ðåñéðôþóåéò ößëùí ðïõ óÝâïíôáí ôçí éóôïñéêÞ áëÞèåéá, ôüôå èá Þìïõí ðïëý ðåñéóóüôåñï äéáëëáêôéêüò áðÝíáíôß ôïõ.ÐñïóùðéêÜ ôïí üñï Makedonci ton ÷ñçóéìïðïßçóá óå ìßá ìüíï ðåñßðôùóç, åí ìÝñåé åëëçíéêÞò êáôáãùãÞò ößëùí áðü ÌïíáóôÞñé.

Ðåñß õðåñ-ðáôñéùôþí ÍÁÆÉ ôþñá.....ÌÞðùò èá èÝëáôå íá óõæçôÞóïõìå ãéá ôçí óôÜóç ôùí äéåèíéóôþí "óõíôñüöùí" üôáí õðåãñÜöç ôï óýìöùíï Ñßìðåíôñïð ìåôáîý Óïâéåôéêþí êáé ÍÁÆÉ????
Ðñïäüôåò õðÞñîáí áðü üëåò ôéò ðïëéôéêÝò ðáñáôÜîåéò, ìå ìßá âáóéêÞ äéáöïñÜ.ÄÅÍ ÅÄÑÁÓÁÍ ÏËÏÉ ÅÍÏÐËÙÓ ÊÁÉ ÁÐÏÓ×ÉÓÔÉÊÁ.ÊÜðïéïé áðü ôç ìßá ðáñÜôáîç Ýäåéîáí óõãêáôÜâáóç ðñïò ôéò êáôï÷éêÝò äõíÜìåéò åðåéäÞ ðßóôåøáí üôé Ýôóé èá ãëéôþóïõí ôç ÷þñá áðü ôïí áêñùôçñéáóìü êáé ôçí ðëÞñç óýíôñéâç.¢ëëïé ùò ãíÞóéïé ðáôñéäïêÜðçëïé åßäáí ôçí êáôÜëëçëç åõêáéñßá ãéá íá áíÝëèïõí êïéíùíéêÜ êáé ïéêïíïìéêÜ -Ýóôù êáé áí áõôü óÞìáéíå áêñùôçñéáóì´´ï ôçò ÷þñáò.
Ïé ÷åéñüôåñïé üìùò üëùí Þôáí åêåßíïé ðïõ öüñåóáí ôïí ìáíäýá ôïõ äéåèíéóôÞ êáé ðñïðáãÜíäéóáí ôç äçìéïõñãßá åíüò áõôüíïìïõ ìáêåäïíéêïý Ýèíïõò ãéá "áíèñùðéóôéêïýò" ëüãïõò êáé ãéá ÷Üñç ôçò äéêáéïóýíçò.
ÈÝëåôå Ýíá ìéêñü äåßãìá?

".... «Ôï ÊÊÅ áðü ôï 1918 Ýùò ôï 1926» (¢è. 1947, óåë. 343-345).

Áíåîáñôçóßá óôç Ìáêåäïíßá êáé óôç ÈñÜêç : ¹ íôüðéá êåöáëáéïêñáôßá... êáôáðéÝæåé ôéò åèíéêÝò ìåéïíüôçôåò óôç Ìáêåäïíßá êáé áôÞ ÈñÜêç... Þ åëëçíéêÞ ðëïõôïêñáôßá êáôáäõíáóôåýåé Ýíá ìÝñïò ôïõ ìáêåäüíéêïõ êáé èñáêéêïý ëáïý, êñáôþíôáò ìå ôï óßäåñï êáé ôç öùôéÜ ôç ìáêåäüíéêç êáé èñáêéêÞ ÷þñá óôçí õðïôáãÞ ôçò. Äß÷ùò ôçí êáôáðßåóç ôïõ ìáêåäüíéêïõ êáé èñáêéêïý ëáïý, äß÷ùò ôçí êáôáðßåóç ôùí îÝíùí åèíþí, ôçò åßíáé áäýíáôï íá äõíáìþóåé åðÜíù ìáò ôïí êïéíùíéêü ôçò æõãü. ¹ íôüðéá ìðïõñæïõáæßá åßíáé åèíéêüò äõíÜóôçò êáé êáôáðéåóôÞò ôïõ ìáêåäüíéêïõ êáé èñáêéêïý ëáïý êáé óõã÷ñüíùò ï êïéíùíéêüò äõíÜóôçò ôçò åñãáôéêÞò ôÜîåùò êáé ôùí öôù÷þí áãñïôéêþí êáé ðñïóöõãéêþí ìáæþí. Áí äåí óõíôñßøïõìå ôïí åèíéêü æõãü ôçò íôüðéáò ìðïõñæïõáæßáò ðïý âáñýíåé óôç Ìáêåäïíßá êáé óôç ÈñÜêç, äåí ìðïñïýìå íá ôóáêßóïõìå ôïí êïéíùíéêü æõãü ôçò ßäéáò ìðïõñæïõáæßáò ðïý âáñýíåé åðÜíù óå ìáò. Äåí ìðïñïýìå áëëéþôéêá íá ãëéôþóïõìå áðü ôïõò êáôáêôçôéêïýò êáé éìðåñéáëéóôéêïýò ðïëÝìïõò ðïý îåóðïýí åéò âÜñïò ìáò åí üóï åîáêïëïõèåß Þ óçìåñéíÞ êáôÜóôáóç ôïõ äéáìåëéóìïý êáé ôçò êáôáðéÝóåùò ôçò Ìáêåäïíßáò êáé ÈñÜêçò áðü ôç ÂáëêáíéêÞ êáé ÔïõñêéêÞ ìðïõñæïõáæßá.
Íá ãéáôß áãùíéæüìáóôå åíáíôßïí ôùí åîïðëéóìþí, åíáíôßïí ôùí ðïëÝìùí ðïý ðñïåôïéìÜæåé Þ êåöáëáéïêñáôßá, åíáíôßïí ôçò åèíéêÞò êáôáðéÝóåùò êáé ôïõ âßáéïõ åêðáôñéóìïý. Íá ãéáôß áãùíéæüìáóôå ãéá ôçí Ýíùóç ôùí ôñéþí ôìçìÜôùí ôçò Ìáêåäïíßáò êáé ÈñÜêçò êáé ãéá åíéáßá êáé áíåîÜñôçôç êñáôéêÞ ôïõò ýðáñîç..
ÆÞôù ç åñãáôïáãñïôéêÞ åðáíÜóôáóç ôçò Âïõëãáñßáò!
ÆÞôù Þ áíåîÜñôçôç Ìáêåäïíßá êáé ÈñÜêç!
ÆÞôù ç "Ïìïóðïíäßá ôùí Âáëêáíéêþí åñãáôïáãñïôéêþí äçìïêñáôéþí!
ÆÞôù ç Ðáãêüóìéïò ÐñïëåôáñéáêÞ åðáíÜóôáóç.
ÁèÞíáé 3 Äåêåìâñßïõ 1924 Ôï Ðñïåäñåßï»
-------------------------------------------
¼ Ãñáììáôåýò ôïõ ôñßôïõ åêôÜêôïõ óõíåäñßïõ ôïõ ÊÊÅ, Ð. Ðïõëéüðïõëïò, óå åíõðïãñáöï Üñèñï ôïõ óôïí «ÑßæïóðÜóôç» (14 Äåê. 1924) ìå ôßôëï: «Ôï Ìáêåäüíéêï çöáßóôåéï» ãñÜöåé:
«Ïé Ìáêåäüíåò åñãÜôåò êáé ÷ùñéêïß, áäéáêñßôùò êáôáãùãÞò, êÜôù áðü ôï æõãü ôçò ÂáëêáíéêÞò ìðïõñæïõáæßáò ðïõ ôïõò ìïéñÜóôçêå, ðáñ' üëåò ôéò ðñïóðÜèåéåò ôùí äéáöüñùí åèíéêéóôéêþí ðñïðáãáíäþí, åîáêïëïõèïýí íá óõíäÝïíôáé ìåôáîý ôïõò ìå êïéíÞ óõíåßäçóç.
Ðïèïýíå êáé áãùíßæïíôáé íá îáíáåíþóïõí ôá ôñßá ôìÞìáôá ôçò äéáìåëéóìÝíçò ôùí ðáôñßäïò êáé í' áðï÷ôÞóïõí åíéáßá êáé êñáôéêÞ áíåîÜñôçôç ýðáñîç. Ôï ßäéï óõìâáßíåé êáé ìå ôï Èñáêéêü ëáü , ï ïðïßïò åßíáé äéáìïéñáóìÝíïò áðü ôçí ÔïõñêéêÞ, ÂïõëãáñéêÞ êáé ÅëëçíéêÞ ìðïõñæïõáæßá. ¼ áðåëåõèåñùôéêüò áãþíáò ôùí êáôáðéåæïìÝíùí ëáþí ôçò Ìáêåäïíßáò êáé ÈñÜêçò, åßíáé áãþíáò êáôÜ ôïõ éìðåñéáëéóìïý êáé ôçò õðïôåëïýò ôïõ ÂáëêáíéêÞò ìðïõñæïõáæßáò».

----------------------------------------------------
Óôç «ÊïììïõíéóôéêÞ Åðéèåþñçóç» (1 Ìáñôßïõ 1947, óåë. 305-306) äéáâÜæïõìå üôé ï Ìáêåäüíéêïò ëáüò «óôÝíáîå êÜôù áðü ôüóïõò æõãïýò óêëáâéÜò» üðùò Þôáí «ïé ¸ëëçíåò êïìéôáôæÞäåò ïðëáñ÷çãïß ÐáõëïìåëÜäåò êáé êáðåôÜí ÂáñäáÀïé, Ôóüíôïé êáé ÃáñÝöçäåò ôïõ Ýóöéããáí ôçí èçëåéÜ óôï ëáéìü» !
----------------------------------------------

ÁõôÜ ôá ëßãá ðåñß ðáôñéäïêÜðçëùí "õðåñ-ðáôñéùôþí" êáé îåðïõëçìÝíùí, "äéåèíéóôþí" äçìáãùãþí.Ïé ðñþôïé äéêáßùò óôéãìáôßóôçêáí, ïé äåýôåñïé ÷ñßóôçêáí Þñùåò.....ÔåëéêÜ üôé äåí ðÝôõ÷áí ïé "óýíôïöïé" èá ôï ðåôý÷ïõí ôþñá ïé "ðñïïäåõôéêïß" üðùò åóý êáé ï "ößëïò' Íßêïò.

ÊÜíåôå ôç ÷Üñç óôïõò åáõôïýò óáò êáé ðñïôåßíåôå ôçí êáôÜñãçóç áõôïý ôïõ forum.Ôï æÞôçìá ôïõ ïíüìáôïò êáé ôçò óêïðéáíÞò ðñïðáãÜíäáò ôï îåðïõëÞóáôå.ôï forum áõôü äåí Ý÷åé ëüãï ýðáñîçò ðëÝïí.Ðçãáßíåôå íá öôéÜîåôå Ýíá Üëëï. Óáò ðñïôåßíù ôïí ôßôëï "ÖÏÑÏÕÌ åëëçíï-ìáêåäïíéêÞò öéëßáò".
Íá äåéò ôüôå ðþò èá óáò áãáðÞóåé ï Ãêüñáí êáé ï Peter.ÌÝ÷ñé êáé ï Pelister ßóùò óáò óõìðáèÞóåé êÜðùò!





Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:53 PM
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SIGA MHPWS O BUSH DIAVAZE AUTO TO FORUM!OTAN ANAGNWRISE THN FYROM W'S MAKEDONIA!

by H (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:10 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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MACEDONIAN compared to English, Kalashi, Khowar, Nuristani, Hindi-Urdu and Pashtu

by mkont (no login)


hmmmmm...........Macedonian looks like a 'connecting' language between indo and english





English Kalasha Khowar Nuristani Hindi-Urdu Pashtu
MACEDONIAN

body Che qalip jith jism badan
TELO



head shish kapal she sar sar
GLAVA



hair chawar phur zhu bal wextu
KOSA




face ru mox naskor chehra max
LICHEH (MOUCHKA = MOUTH/KISSER)




eye ech ghech ache akh starga
OKO (plural OCHI)





ear ka kar kor ekkan ghwag
EUCHI plural


nose nast neskar naso nak poza
NOZ



mouth ashi apak ashi muh zolu
OUSTA



tooth dandorik don duth ekdat ghax
ZAB


tounge jiph ligini dits zaban jiba
YASIK (ZAB = tooth)



breast chuchu pap chuk chati sina
TITSKA



belly kuch shkama kutal pet xeta
STOMAK




arm/hand baza bazu gotar bazu las
RAMA



elbow harkin kurkun apti kohni sangal







palm pe phan dushpar hatheli tale







finger agu chamut ayu ungli gota
PIRST





fingernail nanguzhek dughur nachi naxun nukh





leg khur dek zapo tan xpaq
NOGA




skin post phost chum jidl sarman
KOZHA



bone athi kol ati hadi aduke
KOSKA (KOLINO = knee)


heart hia hardi ziri dil zaru
SERCHEH



blood lui lei lui xun wina
KERF


urine mutra miru tsuio peshab mutiaze
MOCH





feces rich rich gii puxana dake-mutiaze
LINA; LEPESKA; GHOMNO



village grom deh grom gau kale
SELO



house dur dur amu ghar kor
KOUIKA (DOMA = home)




roof drami istan krum chat chath
CHATAR = umbrella



door dur dowaht du darwaza war
VRATA


firewood shula dar da lakri largi




broom shashkoni mazhini ska jharu jaru
METLA





mortar dipa andor aru langri langarei
GIPS





pestle muso musul wo hathi chetu




hammer balka chota budil hathera satak
CHEKAN



knife chaku chaku chaku chaqu chaku
NOJZE




axe badok bardox wuza kulhara tabar
SEKIRA




rope rajuk shimeni mina rasi pare





thread sutr sutur pchiche dhaga tar
KHONETS




needle suzhik shunj chimchich sui stan
IGLA






cloth chelegar zap pizisna kapra kapra
KERPA





ring angushtyer pulungushtu angishti anguthi gota
PIRSTEN (see finger above)




sun suri yor su suraj nwar
SONCE




moon mastruk mas mos chand spogmai
MESECHINA





sky di asman asma asman asman





star tari istari rushto sitara store






rain piliwe boshik agol baris baran
DOGSCH; VERNI = raining





water ukh ugh o pani ubu
VODA




river patisholi sin nao darya sind
REKA



cloud minji kot naru badal waryaz
NEBLI



lighting indochik bilpak dashpulsela bijili prakigi




rainbow indru dronhanu indro quzah tal



wind sira gan dimi hawa hawa
VETAR



stone bath boht wat pathar kane
KAMEN




path pon pon puth rasta lar
PAAT




sand shigo shughur tsuyu ret shaga
PAISOK





fire angar angar ango ag our
OGAN




smoke thum kushun dyum dhua luge
CHAD (DHUMI = to blow smoke; DUMEN = dingy; TEMNO = dark; faint)




ash shutik pheru asi rakh ira




mud tuk toq shur kichar xata
KAL



dust khatur gihth paras miti gard




gold sue sorum sun sona zar
ZLATNO



tree muth kan kanu daraxt wana
DERVO



leaf pu chan pur pata pana
LISYA



root iznos iwak lu jhar jarare
KORA




thorn chuk zux tai kata azghe



flower gamburi gamburi pish phul gwal
CVEYKEH



fruit mewa mewa miwa phal mewa
FRUITA



mango am am am am am




banana kela kela kila kela kela




wheat ghum gom gum gehu ghanam
GHOMNO = feces - see above


millet ain gras ro bajra warbashi




rice grinzh grinj mo chawal wrije
ORICE




potato alu alu aluk alu alu




eggplant khalia patigan banjon baenan tor-batingar




groundnut bum-pali mum-phali mom-phali mun-phali mumpali






chili mach mahch murch mirch marchake





turmeric zechawa zehchawa zarchawa haldi kurkaman




garlic weshnu wrezhnu wezhnu lehsan uga



onion kachenduk trashtu cheknuk piaz piaz
KROMIT



cauliflower gobi gobi gulpi gobi gobi




tomato patingel patingel patingal tamatar sur-batingar
PATLIJANI; DOMATI





oil tel tel til tel tel
MASLO




salt lu trup zhukh namak malga
SOL




meat mos phushur bete gosht ghwaxa
MESO





fat me ghap ske cherbi wazda
DEBELO




fish matsi matsi omatsa machli kab
RIBA






chicken kakawak kahak kok murghi charga
KOKKOSCKA




egg ayukun ayukun puduk anda hu
YAYCHEH



cow gakh leshu go gae ghwa
CRAVA (VOL = bull)



buffalo gamesh gamesh mashigo bhes mexa




milk chhir chhir zu dudh pe
MLEKO (CERENEH = cheese)



horns shin surung shin sing xkar





tail dameri rum demee dum lake
OPASHKA



goat pai pai washi bakri biza
KOZA




dog shua reni kui kuta spe
KUCHEH



snake gokh ai bibimsta saap mar
ZMEIJYA




monkey meka mukul maka bandar bizo
MAIMUN




mosquito trakmangash kagunu tarak machar mashe




ant pililak pilili ramikh chiuti mege




spider upalak shubinak parkemuk makri jola
PAIJAK



name nom nam nom nam num
EMEH


man much mosh manshi admi sare
MASCH




woman istizha kimeri jukur urat xaza
ZHENA




child suda tsiq pirmi bacha mashum
DECHA; DETI





father dada tat to bap plar
TATKO



mother aya nan nu ma mor
MAYKA




brother baya brar bro bhai ror
BROTHER





sister baba ispisar sus bahen xor
SISTRA (BABA = grandmother)




son putr zhao pitr beta zwe
SEEN





daughter chu zhur jukh beti lur
KEYRKA




husband beru mosh mach shohar xawand
MASH




wife ja bok shtiri bivi xaza
ZHENA






boy purushguek daq midi larka halak
DETEH




girl shtrizhaguek kumoru jukh larki jine
CHOUPEH





day bas anus gijur din wraz
DEN




night rat chhui radur rat shpa
NOICHYA




morning adua chhuchhi puchkul subah sahar
SABAYLEH


noon hulukuna granish grish dopaher gharma





afternoon chakdiwio sham shom sham maxam



yesterday dosh dosh dus kal parun
FCHERA (DOSH = to come back!; rain)



today oja hanun shirakgijur aj nan
DENES


tomorrow chopo pengachui dalke ainda-kal saba
UTREH (SABEYLEHLETO = "tomorrow morning"!)


week sat-bas hafta agar hafta hafta
NEDELA (NEDELA also = Sunday)



month mastruk mas mos mihana miasht
MESECH



year kao sal si sal kal
GODINA



old shumberan paranu syuma purana zor
STAR(O)






new noa nogh nui nea nawe
NOVA




good prusht jam lasta acha xu
DOBRO; AREN




bad shum shum digar xarab xarab
LOSHO



wet grila zah zheli bhiga lund
VODENO




dry shushta ChuChhu drisht xushk wach
ISUCHENO




long driga drung darga lamba ugud
DOLGO


short betsak iskurdi moti chota lund
NISK



hot tapala pech pech garam tod
TOPLO; PECHI; GORI




cold osh ushak yuz thanda yax
STUDENO; MRAZ = icy



right drach hoski dachin dae xe
TOCHNO = correct; DESNO = right-hand; PRAVO = correct



left kawri kholi ka bae gas
LEVO





near shoiuna shoi tevire qarib nizde
BLIZU






far desha duderi badyur dur lare
DALEKU




big gada Lot alr bara ghat
GOLEMO; MNOGU





small chutyak tsiq parmi chota warkote
MAL; NISKO = short




heavy anguraka qai gamwo bhari drund
TESHKO; MNOGU = a lot




light lots lots luka halka spak
LESNO = light load




above tara sora ula upar uchat
OD GORA





below nuna mula viri niche lande
POHT





white goirak shpiru kashir sufed spin
BELO



black krizhna sha zhi kala tor
CHERNO (KALESHO = dark)






red lachia krui za lal sur
CHERVENO (compare 'krui' here and 'krizhna' above and compae 'cher' in Macedonian)




one ek i ew ek yao
EDEN; EDNO (SAMO = alone; only)





two du ju dui do dwa
three tre troi tere tin dre
four chao Chor shtewo char salor
five poin poch puch pach pinza
six sho Chhoi shu che shpag
seven sat sot suth sat uwe
eight asht usht ushth ath atu
nine no niu nu nao naha
ten dash jush duts das las
eleven dashyega sushi yanits gyara yaolas
twelve dashyedua johju dits bara dolas
twenty bishi bishir vatsi bis shal
one-hundred shor shor putsi ekso sal





who kura ka katsi kun sok
KOI




what kia kiagh kai kya su
SHO



where kawa kura kor kidhar charta
KADEH



when kayo kiawaht koi kab kala
KOGA




how-many kimon kanduri chuk kitne somra
KOIKU



which kure kiwali gajista kensa kam
KOIYEH




this ia haya eni ye da
OVO



that se hes iki wo agha
THO



these emi hamit amni ye da
OVEIYEH




those eli het amki wo agha
ONEIYEH



same barubar barabar erngest ekhi yaoshan
EISTO; LICHNO





whole taza pura pura mukamal rogh
CHIELO





broken chhina Chhirdu patingusti tuta mat
SCKRCHENO



few chutyak kam echok thora lag
MALU




many bo bo baluk ziada der
MNOGU





all sao saf tsak sab tol
SEITEH




eat zhuk zhibik yu tumkhao xoral
YADI




bite ashato oyoi atushio katna chichal
KIUSNI; KASNI (late = KASNO)




hungry anora Chuyi io bhukh lagna
GLADEN




drink pi pik pi pina skal
PI





thirsty dan trush opi lagna kedal






sleep dudi oreik prush sona udakedal
SPEE





lay drekda porik chi letna samlastal
LEGHI


lie = LAIGHI - MK (to tell a fib)
lie down = LEGHI; LEGNI





sit nas nishik nis baethna kenastal
SEDNI



give pra dik pre dena warkawal
DADI




burn upweik paleik lush jalana talargi
GORI (PALI = to light)




die anashi brik misi marna mrakedal
UMRI





kill nash mareik jai marna wajal
OPERI; KOLI = to cull



fly upul ulik undr urna alwatal
LETA


walk! kasi kosik esti chalna paidalarsha
BARIH; PESHKI; PATI (KASNO = LATE; running late etc)




run adyae deik achu durna mandawahal
TERCHI



go par bik etu jana talal
ODI (walk = BARIH)



come a gik hatsi ana ratlal
DOYDI



speak ama ludik wila bolna wayal
SBORI;




heard sanga kara singa suna awredal
SLUSHNA




see pashi poshik waa dekhna katal
PULI; VIDI




I a awa uts mae zu
YAS


you tu tu twi tum tu
TI



you-(formal) tu tu twi ap taso
TI



he/she asa hes iki vo hagha
we abi spa imu ham munga
you-(plural) abi pisa sho tum taso
they eli het amki vo haghwi


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:10 PM
from IP address 69.192.25.111


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Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The populatio

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian.
"Our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians"

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:57 PM
from IP address 212.183.55.122


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One final response to "Nikos"

by Anonymous (no login)

ÓõãêåêñéìÝíåò áðáíôÞóåéò óôá åñùôÞìáôá ðïõ óïõ Ýèåóá ÄÅÍ Ýëáâá.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138228695/I+challenge+Greeks+here+to+take+a+stand+against+the+traitor
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138235057/Re-+Hey+DUMB+human+you-+-+READ-
ÓõíÝ÷éóå íá ðéóôåýåéò üôé ôá Óêüðéá kai to Ãêüóôéâáñ åßíáé óôç 'ìáêåäïíßá ôïõ Áéãáßïõ' êáé èá ôá ðáò ðïëý êáëÜ ìå ôïí Goran....¢ñéóôá!

Any "Greek" who calls this salad of unidentified ethnicities as "Macedonians",thus SPITTING IN THE FACE OF HIS MACEDONIAN COMPATRIOTS, is simply IGNORANT and ILLITERATE.

(I 'm greatful to the other "nikos" who used your name in such a way.You tasted a small pinch of the insult,the anger, the injustice which every real, self-aware macedonian experiences every day of his life).

Furthermore, if this "Greek" appears in a forum under the title "Makedonia: 4000 years of Greek civilization and Culture" to propagate the myth of Macedonian nation with a slavic character and a Macedonian language, using classical Skopian arguments and propaganda, then this "Greek" is simply a TRAITOR.
NO "BUTS", NO "IFS".
If the individual in question takes one step further ahead and starts boasting for his autonomist uncle, while the Skopians are clapping chearfully,saying that he's trying to trace his non-greek roots in "Kostur", then this person suffers from a very serious identity crisis.Such persons were called APOSTATES in Macedonia and have been well described in Yannas testimony:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138148046/Nikolaki%2BGoran%2C+who+inspires+you+the+most-

Cases like the one above, regarding ignorant American,Canadian,(German) citizens of unidentified national identity, lured by "nice" Yugo-Skopian "friends" I have seen many times in the past.

Dear Nikos, I have absolutely NO REMORSE for calling you a TRAITOR (after all, you were the first who started swearing NOT ME).
That's not because of your friends, but because of your politically anti-greek views.And a Greek,using the term "macedonian" in a non-greek context over 9 out of 10 cases in his everyday life or in a Greek forum against skopian propaganda expresses a crystal clear political view....that's politics of the worst kind.


Do yourself a favor and leave this forum.Go to some skopian site to prove your friends' "macedonianness".
Shame on you for your insult against my country.
Åßóáé áðëÜ áóõã÷þñçôïò!


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:07 PM
from IP address 212.54.216.193


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At 800BC Homer never Call you Hellenes, 499 BC the name was YAUNA,at the middle Ages the

by ITALIANS CALL YOU GRAECI (no login)

Homer lived many generations after the Trojan War.
The Greeks of the epics didn't describe themselves as Greeks (Hellenes), but as Achaeans, Danaans, etc.
"Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name .... The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name, nor indeed any of them

except the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes: in his poems they are called Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans"
- Thucydides


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships


The Yaunâ in Asia Minor revolted in 499, but they were subjected again. Now, it was clear to the Persian government that the possessions in Asia Minor could be safe only when the Yaunâ in the west were subjected as well.

Two years later, king Darius sent a new expedition to the west. The commanders were Datis and Artaphernes. Herodotus presents the expedition as a punitive action against Eretria and Athens, who had helped the Ionians during their revolt of 499.

The modern English word Greek is derived from Latin Graecus, which in turn comes from Greek Γραικός (Graikos), the name of a Boeotian tribe that migrated to Italy in the 8th century BC, and it is by that name the Hellenes were known in the West. Homer, while reciting the Boeotian forces in the Iliad's Catalogue of Ships, provides the first known reference to a Boeotian city named Graea,[24] and Pausanias mentions that Graea was the name of the ancient city of Tanagra.[25] Cumae, a city lying to the west of Neapolis (now Naples) and south of Rome, was founded by Cymaeans and Chalkideans as well as Graeans who by coming into contact with Romans may very well be responsible for naming all Hellenic speaking tribes Graeci. The modern Italian city of Grai was also founded in antiquity by Graeans.




The concept of Hellene for a person of Greek origin was already well established since the late Middle Ages, but for the majority of the population, especially those in rural areas away from urban centers, the dominant perception was still that of a Roman, a descendant of the Byzantine Empire. Scholar Rigas Feraios called "Bulgars and Arvanites, Armenians and Romans" to rise in arms against the Ottomans.[57] General Makrygiannis recalled a friend asking him: "What say you, is the Roman far away from coming? Are we to sleep with the Turks and awaken with the Romans?"[58]

Greek (Γραικός) was the least popular of the three terms, but interestingly enough received by scholars disproportionately larger attention compared to its popular use. Adamantios Korais, a renowned Greek classicist, justified his preference in A Dialogue between Two Greeks: "Our ancestors used to call themselves Greeks




Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:13 AM
from IP address 72.140.251.131


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He is a realist..not a TRAITOR.

by TPP (no login)

You are living in the dark ages. Get over it.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:32 AM
from IP address 58.105.43.136


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Hahahahahahahahahahaha !!

by (Login istor)

Does this mean that you are Macedonian ??

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!

What is Macedonian on you bre IDIOT ???
You are unable and ashamed to use ANY Macedonian toponyms, tikvar! How dare you to call yourself Macedonian? Are you an unindendified CLOWN ??

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:12 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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Nikos Is More Greek Than You Ever Will Be...

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

Go bury your head in the sand or live a hermits life in the mountains...

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:25 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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And your words prove it !!

by (Login istor)


Aeinaminanoixwtovrwmostomamou !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:13 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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You are a shizophren maniac....

by Nikos (no login)

....Furthermore, if this "Greek" appears in a forum under the title "Makedonia: 4000 years of Greek civilization and Culture" to propagate the myth of Macedonian nation with a slavic character and a Macedonian language, using classical Skopian arguments and propaganda, then this "Greek" is simply a TRAITOR.
NO "BUTS", NO "IFS".
If the individual in question takes one step further ahead and starts boasting for his autonomist uncle, while the Skopians are clapping chearfully,saying that he's trying to trace his non-greek roots in "Kostur", then this person suffers from a very serious identity crisis.Such persons were called APOSTATES in Macedonia and have been well described in Yannas testimony:

--->YOU TWIST THINGS BECAUSE SEVERAL POINTS OF YOUR TEXT ABOVE ARE SIMPLY FALSE. F-A-L-S-E. I HAVE NO UNCLE IN "KORITSA". I DON'T USE "SKOPIAN" ARGUMENTS AND SO ON (PROOVE IT WHERE I USE IT) AND SO ON.

THUS YOU ARE SPITTING AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN BECAUSE YOU ARE B-E-L-I-E-V-I-N-G F-A-L-S-E THINGS.

SH_T THE F_CK UP NOW.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:15 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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GR-NEWS: Crete arrests linked to illegal adoption ring - Two Bulgarian womens:

by Nikos (no login)

Crete arrests linked to illegal adoption ring

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100020_26/01/2006_65621

Two Bulgarian women — a mother and her daughter — were yesterday charged by a prosecutor in Crete of being involved in an illegal child adoption ring, court sources said.

The women, aged 48 and 25, were arrested in Iraklion on Tuesday on suspicion of being linked to a ring that brings pregnant young Bulgarian women to Greece a few weeks before their due dates. Police said the women are taken to a state hospital to deliver and the ringmasters then put the baby up for adoption. The children are illegally sold to childless couples, officers said.

The 25-year-old woman had recently given birth and was charged with attempting to illegally give up the child for adoption, which is a criminal offense. Her mother was charged with the same crime but was also accused of attempting to profit from the offense.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:51 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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Gypsies, not Bulgarians

by Boris I (no login)

Gypsies with Bulgarian passports...
nothing new from that scum, hope the gaschambers will start burning again

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:14 PM
from IP address 84.162.111.114


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What's the difference?...

by Komita (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:37 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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you are the difference :)

by Komitopul (no login)

your mom is a gypsy and your father is a Bulgarian


ps.
Mrsh ma makja si u mirizlivata pichka lajno nepismeno

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:36 PM
from IP address 129.10.72.241


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Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The populatio

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian.
"Our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians"

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:58 PM
from IP address 212.183.55.122


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Nazi scum!

by Waingro (no login)

Boris actually there are plenty of Bulgarians in Crete, including many ladies.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:03 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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SYN ATHINA KAI XEIRAN KINEI-etsi theloun oi skopianoi!10 Xronia mas koroideboun!

by MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT BULGARISM (no login)

y

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:28 PM
from IP address 212.183.55.122


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Stefanos and Nikos: Get off this forum. Now pls.

by Periklis (no login)

Eiste vrukolakes tou kerata.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:40 PM
from IP address 84.60.150.74


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Hey Periklis...

by Nikos (no login)

---STFU please.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:13 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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hahahahahaaaaaaaaaarrrr har har har n/t

by Nikos (no login)

...ti vlakides pou eisaste. tstststs hahahaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAA!

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:15 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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You stop using the nickname "Periklis"

by "DAI" (no login)

Kseftilizeis in poli mou...

Meta na pas na xatheis apo edo... O Nikos kai o Stefanos einai apo tous pio palious edo mesa kai pio eksupnous.

To forum then eivai PROPAGANDISTIKO opos les parakatw. (gia Greekness of Macedonia) alla gia tin Truth (Alitheia)...

Kai n alithia eivai kati pou dev 8a prepei va mas fobizei katalabes?

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:08 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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Hou Hou Hou Houhouli. Geisou re Petro - merakli!

by Periklis (no login)

Skopian Skum -

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:07 PM
from IP address 84.60.162.95


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O skopianos stratos (3 atoma) vazei skata sto prosopo kai kryvete.

by Periklis (no login)

Etsi nizoun pos mporoun na ksefigoun. LATHOs OMOS.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:06 PM
from IP address 84.60.162.95


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(http://maknews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10 ) PERIKLI KE ISTOR. RIKSTE MIA MATIA.

by loxias (no login)

http://maknews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:47 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Skopian Skum

by Periklis (no login)

Ante kai na gelasoume me tous tsoglanous.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:22 PM
from IP address 84.60.189.46


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Oi Skopianoi trone skata me rigani, etsi exo akousei.

by Periklis (no login)

Get the dick out of your grandmas mouth - skopithia.
Skopian Skum.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:21 PM
from IP address 84.60.189.46


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ISOS TO PERNOUNE GIA KOKORETSI!

by SKOPSKATA (no login)

<

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:29 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.59


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DEN APOKLIETE. EDO OLI TOUS FTIMOUNE KE AFTI NOMIZOUNE OTI VREXI. hahahahaha

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:49 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Alithia eh?

by "DAI" (no login)

Posin ora sou pire na skefteis kai na grapseis autes tis anoisies sou?

Oute sto Demotiko den lene pleon tetoies mpourdes gia na prosballoun kapoion alla fainetai merikoi oute Dnmotiko dev exouv paei..

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:14 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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A note on the dividing lines in this forum.

by (no login)

I am probably the oldest surviving member of the original team, and I have seen a lot of ups and downs in this forum. This era is definately one of the worst in many respects. I could't even imagine that the old battles between me and Illiden would be looked upon as a high point of this forum, but at that times we had mostly intelligible conversation and exchange of valid arguments. Not quite a few posts would take more than a page, and they were not exactly copy-paste articles.

One thing for sure, I believe that the volume of responses from each side does dot determine the better side, but the overall quality of posts and the volume of the quality posts does.

Any independent observer who visits this forum would inevitably conclude that if one side is trying to have a valid discussion, and the other is spamming incestantly, then the second side is simply lacking of valid answers and thus it is trying to silence the first side. The situation is even worse if there are some folks from the the second side agree with some points presented from the first side, and then some other folks from the second side are trying to intimidate both those dissents from their side, with spamming.

If any of you wants to have respect, and not to get insulted on an everyday basis, by the majority of the members of this forum, you'd better try to communicate in a civilized manner. Either you like it or not, the major dividing line in this forum is not one nationality against another, but those who can post intelligent posts against those who cannot. All other divisions come in second place.

Alright?

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:19 PM
from IP address 12.43.115.213


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however. i am not the one who claims others land and heritage.therefor i reserve for my

by loxias (no login)

self the right to defend my country`s haritage and national interest by all
means.

Loxias The Makedonian

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:59 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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There are many ways to defend your country..

by "DAI" (no login)

You have chosen the last effective one.. "spamming"...

What is spamming? Who is spamming? He who has no arguments or is not right about something.. By spamming and offending you show that we (Greeks) do not have arguments and therefore we need to offend etc to "make our point"..

You are no better than Foenix..Peder.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:18 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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The soldiers' duty is to guard his country, not to insult his enemies. (right Fenix?)

by (no login)

I have been insulting Fenix much more effectively than most around here. A couple of days ago I found a reference from oner of theirs that proved that they were mistreating the Albanians. I called him a bastard at the very title of my post. He didn't even say a word. The next day Classicist replied to my message, and pounded Fenix as well. Fenix responded to the Classicist with some irrelevant comments, while he commented to another post of mine which said: "Phoenix, I do not hate you, I hate those who make me agree with you", and he tried to convince me that I have no reason to hate him, and that he and his folks are good guys, but I have never known any of them. Of course, this is his opinion.

When I asked Fenix if he considers me a Xenophobic person, long time ago, he didn't respond, and I won't respond to him either. There is no reason after all. I called him a bastard, I cited a reason for that (He has been whining that the Albanians are ungrateful animals for a long time) and he won't dear to throw anything back at me at this phase.

You see, unlike you, I am capable of bringing them down, when I can support my thesis with substantial evidence...

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:26 PM
from IP address 64.110.51.254


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You forgot to add:

by "DAI" (no login)

the two magic words "AS USUAL" to this line of yours Petro:

"Fenix responded to the Classicist with some irrelevant comments"

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:45 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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Petros you make some fine points , but LOXIAS IS ALO CORRECT WHAT THE SKOPES ARE DOING IS

by etan e epitas (no login)

UNFORGIVABLE!! there is no such thing as an unbiased opion or outside opinion in the MACEDONIA ISSUE the historical and archilogical evidece is overwhelming that it is Greek and it has been posted here on more than enough occasions . those who try and didtort the evidence to aid in there own personal agenades do not have Greece`s best interest in mind any non GREEK one who cLAIMS Macedonia history OR HERITAGE AS THIER OWN is an enemy of Greece is and imy opinion desrving of death
monon lave etan e epitas

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 6:39 PM
from IP address 64.12.116.68


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You are right, but you don't pay attention to their grievances.

by (no login)

Although Ancient Macedonia was Greek in practical terms - There were no nations back then, and thus nobody of the Ancient Greeks belonged to any (imaginary) Greek nation.

On the other hand, during the Middle Ages, the Slavs invaded and exterminated a large portion of the Macedonian population. Although this is not something that we should forget, and they don't even ask us for forgiveness, one cannot deny that those people were living in Macedonia for a very long time, almost one and a half thousand years. Many of these were kicked out from Greece violently. Many died, although did not happen in a planned way, but mostly during the Balkan wars and the WWI. They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:34 PM
from IP address 64.110.51.254


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ARE YOU APOLOGISING TO AN INVADOR! EIMASTE ME TA KALAMAS!

by L (no login)

E

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:50 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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`They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?``PETRO KAPOU KAPOU TA MPERDEVIS LIGO.

by loxias (no login)

KALITERA INE OLI AFTI I BASTARDI NA ANIKSOUNE TA MATIA TOUS.
ESI KE O ISTOR ME OLA TA ATRANTAKTA EPIXIRIMATA SAS TI NOMIZIS OTI KATAFERATE;;

I SLVOBOULGAROI VOVOUNTE KE SEVONDE MONO AFTON POU EXI DINAMI KE DEN ASTIEVETE. P.X : VASSILIOS BOULGAROKTONOS TOTE, TO NATO SIMERA.

14 XRONIA SINOMILIES ( TALK FOR THE TALK ) TI APOTELESMA EXOUNE?

OTAN TOUS ANAGNORISANE I AMERIKANI ( EAN I EL. KIVERNISI IXE PI OTI INE EX8RIKI ENERGIA APO SIMAXO XORA, KE IXE ANASTILI TIN LITOURGIA TIS SOUDAS ),
8A STELNAME ENA MINIMA SE OLOUS EX8ROUS KE FILOUS, OTI KAMIA LOUGRA DEN MPORI NA PEKSI ME TA E8NIKA MAS SIMFERONTA. OMOS.... TIN SINEXIA TI KSERIS.

GIA AFTO FILETO KALITERO INE: SI VI PACEM PARABELLUM.

FILIKA

LOXIAS.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:20 AM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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`They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?``PETRO KAPOU KAPOU TA MPERDEVIS LIGO.

by loxias (no login)

KALITERA INE OLI AFTI I BASTARDI NA ANIKSOUNE TA MATIA TOUS.
ESI KE O ISTOR ME OLA TA ATRANTAKTA EPIXIRIMATA SAS TI NOMIZIS OTI KATAFERATE;;

I SLVOBOULGAROI VOVOUNTE KE SEVONDE MONO AFTON POU EXI DINAMI KE DEN ASTIEVETE. P.X : VASSILIOS BOULGAROKTONOS TOTE, TO NATO SIMERA.

14 XRONIA SINOMILIES ( TALK FOR THE TALK ) TI APOTELESMA EXOUNE?

OTAN TOUS ANAGNORISANE I AMERIKANI ( EAN I EL. KIVERNISI IXE PI OTI INE EX8RIKI ENERGIA APO SIMAXO XORA, KE IXE ANASTILI TIN LITOURGIA TIS SOUDAS ),
8A STELNAME ENA MINIMA SE OLOUS EX8ROUS KE FILOUS, OTI KAMIA LOUGRA DEN MPORI NA PEKSI ME TA E8NIKA MAS SIMFERONTA. OMOS.... TIN SINEXIA TI KSERIS.

GIA AFTO FILETO KALITERO INE: SI VI PACEM PARABELLUM.

FILIKA

LOXIAS.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:21 AM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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VARDASKA BANANOVINA IS ONLY 21% MAKEDONIAN SOIL... REST IS ALBANIA. WE WANT THE 21% BACK

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:10 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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IF GRECCE DECLARES WAR ON SKOPJE, GREEKS WIIL BE UNITED IN THE DESTRUCTION

by ETAN E EPITAS (no login)

AND ELIMINATION OF SKOPJE AND IT`S PARASITICAL , MORONIC INHABITANTANTS
MONON LAVE ETAN EPITAS BURN AND BURY SKOPTHIA

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:52 PM
from IP address 64.12.116.68


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WHAT WAR! ONE RAID!BY JUST ONE F16! IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DO THE JOB!

by H (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:47 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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Feniks Khangaroovski...

by Boris I (no login)

we know well that retarded fyromian cretins like you hate the presence of the Bulgarians here and love to suck Grk diecks...

your whole "national" ideology is about sucking Greek and Serbian diecks.

GO AND KILL YOURSELF FYROMIAN MONKEY

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:19 PM
from IP address 84.162.77.207


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Skopian Skum. DO you agree Boris?

by Periklis (no login)

Megale!

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:09 PM
from IP address 84.60.162.95


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Don't side with the devil n/t

by Nikos (no login)

hehehe

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:43 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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Bravo!!!!

by "DAI" (no login)

Molis tora apedeikses poso anideos kai blakas eisai...

Bulgarospore ki esu...

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:21 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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E OXI KAI KYRIOS ESY BUSKOFSKI!SAS MATHAME TORA TI EISASTE!.....

by REPUBLIKA YUGOBULGARIA (no login)

http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=564412
Â.ÌÐÏÕÔÓÊÏÖÓÊÉ: "ÄÅÍ ÕÐÁÑ×ÅÉ ÌÕÓÔÉÊÇ ÄÉÐËÙÌÁÔÉÁ ÃÉÁ ÔÏ ÏÍÏÌÁ ÔÇÓ ÐÃÄÌ"
Óýìöùíá ìå ôçëåãñÜöçìá ôïõ åéäçóåïãñáöéêïý Ðñáêôïñåßïõ ÌÉÁ ôùí Óêïðßùí, ï Ðñùèõðïõñãüò ôçò ÐÃÄÌ, ÂëÜíôï Ìðïýôóêïöóêé, ó÷åôéêÜ ìå äçìïóßåõìá ôçò åöçìåñßäáò "ÍôíÝâíéê" ôùí Óêïðßùí, ðïõ ôïí öÝñåé íá Ý÷åé áóêÞóåé ìõóôéêÞ äéðëùìáôßá ãéá ôï æÞôçìá ôïõ ïíüìáôïò, ìÝóù óõíáíôÞóåùí ðïõ ðñáãìáôïðïßçóå óôç Öëþñéíá ìå áðåóôáëìÝíïõò ôïõ Ðñùèõðïõñãïý ôçò ÅëëÜäáò ê. Ê. ÊáñáìáíëÞ, äÞëùóå üôé:

''Ðñüêåéôáé ãéá ÷ïíñïåéäÞ ðáñáðëçñïöüñçóç êáé äåí õðÜñ÷åé ëüãïò ãéá ìõóôéêÝò óõíïìéëßåò ãéá ôï æÞôçìá ôïõ ïíüìáôïò. Åðßóçò, åðåéäÞ Ý÷ïõìå åéóÝëèåé êáé óå ÷ñïíéÜ åêëïãþí, õðÜñ÷åé áíåðßóçìïò êáíüíáò êáé ìßá[ óõìöùíßá êõñßùí] íá ìçí óõæçôïýíôáé ôÝôïéá èÝìáôá ôá ïðïßá ìðïñïýí íá áðïôåëÝóïõí áíôéêåßìåíï ðïëéôéêÞò åêìåôÜëëåõóçò".

E OXI KAI KYRIOS ESY BUSKOFSKI!SAS MATHAME TORA TI EISASTE!
DEN PISTEYO OI SKOPIANOI STON PROEKLOGIKO XRONO NA MHN PROSPATHOUN MPAS KAI TOUS ANAGNORISH KANENA KRATOS!


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:03 PM
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Whoever denies Macedonians' Greekness is an IDIOT !!

by (Login istor)





Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:43 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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AMUN!

by V (no login)

V

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:58 PM
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Dear Greeks .....

by (Login istor)

..if you cannot tell them that they are not Macedonian, just tell them that they are not related to ancient Macedonians by telling them all arguments about this. They don't know them at all. Tell them that they were Bulgarian until 1944. They don't know the whole truth.

This will be enough. Be sure that not all SlavoSkopians are as idiot as the propgandists we meet in this forum. Be sure that they will tell to themselves " if we are not related to ancient Macedonians then what the fack kind of Macedonians are we??"

If you cannot do this either, then stop claiming Greeks. We don't accept you as such.

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:03 PM
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ebi se

by Boris I (no login)



Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:20 PM
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Na sestra's putkata ....

by Anonymous (Login istor)

I hope you get me, MALAKA

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:32 PM
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hahahahaha. Istor se paradexome.

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:09 PM
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gamisou vre malaka

by Boris I (no login)

I'll eat you brain and drink wine from your skull

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:41 PM
from IP address 84.162.74.67


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TURANOMOGOLE. FACK OFF KURVA, TIKVAROKLAVATA TOU KERATA.

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 6:24 PM
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TURKOMONGOL! NEXT TIME AROUND WE WILL REMOVE BOTH OF YOUR EYES! VOULGAROMALAKA!

by , (no login)

,

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:42 AM
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Abre kanivale !!

by Anonymous (Login istor)

na sestra's putkata malaka !!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:00 PM
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Varna-London-Varna for 200 Euro with British Airways

by Boris I (no login)



British Airways will launch regular flights from Bulgaria's Black Sea town of Varna to London March 29.

The pre-launch price of the return ticket is set at EUR 150. After the company starts to service the flights, the price will increase to EUR 200.

Initially the flights will be serviced twice a week - on Wednesdays and Saturdays. As of June 6 the company will fly planes four times a week.

HOW MUCH FOR A REGULAR FLIGHT? (IF THERE ARE ANY)

Thessaloniki-London-Thessaloniki
Skopje-London-Skopje

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:20 PM
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hmmm

by stefanos.gr (no login)

when i went in London last March, i 've payed some 330 euros for Thessaloniki- Athens-Heathrow and Gatwick-Thessaloniki, but it was an emergency. we had decide to go in London only a couple of hours before.
you can find tickets for London with 200 euros if you book it a few days before and mostly out of season...

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:50 PM
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via Athens? du you have direct flights from Thess?

by Boris I (no login)

is your boss back from Bulgaria?


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:14 PM
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DEAR BULGAR mr BORIS. I DON`T FACKING CARRY...TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT MAKEDONIA.

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:21 PM
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WE MUST EXTERMINATE ALL BALKAN TALIBANS.

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:47 PM
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COPY OUR ALLIES...

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:47 PM
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WHO WANT TO FACK PENIKS MOTHER AND SISTER? 10 euro.

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:44 PM
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"Loxia"...

by stefanos.gr (no login)

trava allou na paixeis to poulaki sou...
Ta oria tis ypomonis mas eksantlountai...

an nomizeis pos prosfereis kati stin elladaa kai ton ellinismo me ta grafomena sou ................. EISAI POLY XAZOS!!!

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:54 PM
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ebvery be snetive to the fact that steffy married one of those skopje ####2@#4

by etan e epitas (no login)

monon lave etan epitas burn and bury skophthia

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:39 PM
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Tsoglane Loxia

by Anonymous (no login)

Fyge apo touto to Forum. Rezileveis tous Ellines.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:12 PM
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VRE MOUNOPANA. 2 APO TIS 10 LEKSIS POU GRAFI AFTOS O MALAKAS INE `FACK`. LOUGRES .

by MALAKISMENA KOLOPEDA. LOXIAS. (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:05 PM
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NTROPI SAS ARXIDIA TOU KERATA, NA IPOSTIRIZETE SLAVOBOULGAROUS. PRODOTES.

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:08 PM
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KATI MAL8AKI MALAKES SAN ESAS INE IPEF8INI GIA TA PROVLIMATA POU EXI I PATRIDA MOU.

by ME TALK FOR THE TALK, AKRI DEN VGENI LOUGRES (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:11 PM
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NTREPOME GIA OLA AFTA TA MAL8AKA AN8ROPAKIA POU INE MONO GIA `TALK`

by ELLAS PANO APO OLA, MALAKES. LOXIAS. (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:15 PM
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Stop arguing....we are all related somehow.

by TPP (no login)

Who knows, Istor and Leo (sorry leo) might be long lost cousins

http://www.shop.oxfordancestors.com/view_product.php?product=BM0030

The Science that Reveals our Genetic Ancestry. This book written by Prof. Sykes takes the reader on a path of scientific discovery about our genetic past. In this book he gives a first hand account of his research into mitochondrial DNA, which passes from generation to generation through the maternal line, allowing us to track our genetic ancestry through time and space. Prof. Sykes has found that almost all Europeans can trace their ancestry back to one of seven women, whom he named “The Seven Daughters of Eve”. In this book we learn where our ancient genetic ancestors lived and what their lives were like. “The Seven Daughters of Eve” does not only re-examine how we have evolved, but also gives us a new sense of individuality and identity.


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:06 PM
from IP address 58.105.43.136


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Now that is pretty scary stuff.n/t

by Komita (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:08 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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I know...

by TPP (no login)

but ive read a bit about this and the scientist claims that the 7 daughters of eve are all europeans. An interesting theory to say the least.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:12 PM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YUGO-BULGARS (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:49 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.38


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YOU ARE BULGARS!RELATED TO MONGOLS!

by \ (no login)

\

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:17 PM
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i think your mother is related to your father

by TPP (no login)

..hence the birth of a mongolOID like yourself

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:20 PM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YUGO-BULGARS (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:48 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.38


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THANKS TTP , RELATING ME TO A PARROT CALLED ISTOR LOL :0)

by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)

:0)

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:11 AM
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Christian Turk Bagdad showed his true Cultural colors...

by Komita (no login)

on the tennis court in Melbourne tonight......


Spitting and blowing his nose in his bare hands at every opportunity.

Very Greek indeed

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 1:30 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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is this your first cousin?

by stefanos.gr (no login)

ops... sorry.. wrong...
i read "cristian turk" and i think it was someone like you, but i am not sure for you, if you are christian...



Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:09 PM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YUGO-BULGARS! (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:50 PM
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Lupita shut your piehole

by Waingro (no login)

JRK

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:12 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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A response to Stefanos, Arkadi and Nikos

by Anonymous (no login)

This website was created 8-9 years ago to support the greekness of the name "Macedonian".
There were actually great moments. interesting articles were posted by all sides.
Now however it has deteriorated into a forum where 3 out of 6 frequent posters of Greek(?) nationality propagandize the "right" of "Goran" and his co-nationals on the name.

Greeks who still object are being attacked by the people in question with arrogance saying "ethnicities are artificial creations to divide people" (this exact fairy-tale/moto was used during the civil war to abolish the borders and create a united Macedonia within a "happy","noborder" Balkan-Federation.People who resisted then and saved Macedonia were collectively described as "nationalists","monarchofascists",etc,etc,etc while their opponents were acting as gulible idiots fighting for Tito's "anti-nationalists" (nai kala) visions).

Now to the point.Each and every one of you Arkadi,Stefanos a few other posters attacked me for calling Nikos a traitor.
We all had a cause some years ago, to defend Greece from the multi-faced, well-financed and extremely anti-greek in its nature propaganda stemming from Skopje and its Diaspora.Their aim is the complete defamation of Greece, the promotion of a "macedonian" national identity on slav- as well as greek-speakers from that region.
In the course you completely changed your views:

1)Nikos wrote a whole political manifesto on his friends makedonism.Even left a question mark hanging over the greek origin of ancient macedonians.When another guy used his name and attacked others he exploded in range.However he showed absolutely no senstitivity on how real Macedonians feel whenever mass media,politicians, historians,pantoeideis Goran&Nikolakides attack Greece using their name.That was an oxymoron.I pointed out the fact initially using no swearing.His response was irony and name-calling of the worst kind.
For me political manifestos and proud references to the separatist activities of relatives is a U turn, which gives me the right to speak of treason and apostates from the initial cause.After all I WASN't the first who used name-calling and swearing.
2)Stefanos.I respect some of your views.Hwever let me remind you that boris adn classicist too were attacked as grekophiles.(And sure they are in comparison to Pelister), this however doesn' mean I' m going to tolerate all that they write.
Mathimata patriotismou na dineis ekei pou se pairnei.Ego exo filies me apogonous eksarxikon apo Vodena.Tis theseis tous omos pote den tha tis sthriza OUTE STO ELAXISTO.Xreiasthke na tsakotho se kapoies faseis mazi tous oste na mathoun na sebontai thn Ellada, toulaxiston parousia emou.
3)Tony.You have supported every genocidal policy of your country, the United States in every country around the world, and you want to teach ME about ethos and dealling with other civilizations?And let me tell you something else.
You are referring colectively to "Slavic-speaking Macedonians".Do you think that slav-speakers like Alexandros Kirou who defended Zelevo from the Bulgars and the Yugozombeis is one and the same as Goran????
You think that slavic in Florina is the same as in Edessa.As for Understanding "slavic" coming from Ochrid and upwards forget it.Completely different language.

If that are your views dear "friends" , I wonder....
Just what is the point for Mr. Sideris to sustain this forum any more?????Bring it down!




Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 1:25 PM
from IP address 62.1.229.211


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Kai kati akoma

by Anonymous (no login)

Perimena sygkekrimenh kritikh pano stis arithmimenes apantiseis pou xrisimopoiisa sta epixeirimata tou Nikou.
Akoma omws den eida tipota aksio logou apo thn pleyra sas.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 1:32 PM
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I can sense factions developing amongst the already divided Greeks....

by Komita (no login)

It was always going to be just a matter of time.


Just proves the fictcous society theory.....



bbbbwwwaaaaahahahahahahahaha

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 1:36 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YUGO-BULGARS! (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:00 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.38


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I can sense factions developing amongst the already divided Greeks....

by Komita (no login)

It was always going to be just a matter of time.


Just proves the fictcous society theory.....



bbbbwwwaaaaahahahahahahahaha

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 1:36 PM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:01 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.38


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no kamit tgere are only a few pussy Greeks LIKE STEFFY

by etan e epitas (no login)

`S CREW THE REST ARE WILLING TO KILL SKOPJE`S 24/7 EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD NOT TAKE THT LONG !!1
MONON LAVE ETAN E EPITAS

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:43 PM
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Is The Forum Owners Name Sideris...???

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

I know Macedonians from the Aegean with this same surname...

It wouldn't suprise me if the forum owner is a grkoman...LOL

And just a point about your bitchin'...this forum has long died...it was only ever going to sustain itself if the name issue was hijacked by the greek side, which was something that was never going to happen...the hard-core lunatics have slowly left with their tails between their legs, the final straw for most was the recognition of Macedonia by the USA...with the lunatic element gone a few reasonable greeks have managed to be heard above the rabble and ranting of a procession of grk retards...now a few fvckwits like you want to target them as if anybody cares what you have to say...

LOL

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:00 PM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:02 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.38


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why is Sideris a slavic name???

by Arkadi (no login)

what are you talking about?
It means a blacksmith in Greek


BTW you havnt won any 'name' argument yet although we are being flexible the term Macedonia or Republic of Macedonia will not fly, EVER!
There must be a prefix otherwise no EU

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:11 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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answer

by stefanos.gr (no login)

>>>Stefanos.I respect some of your views.Hwever let me remind you that boris adn classicist too were attacked as grekophiles.(And sure they are in comparison to Pelister), this however doesn' mean I' m going to tolerate all that they write.
Mathimata patriotismou na dineis ekei pou se pairnei.Ego exo filies me apogonous eksarxikon apo Vodena.Tis theseis tous omos pote den tha tis sthriza OUTE STO ELAXISTO.Xreiasthke na tsakotho se kapoies faseis mazi tous oste na mathoun na sebontai thn Ellada, toulaxiston parousia emou.>>>>

first of all, you should adopt a nickname. "anonymous" is not acceptable for serious people.
if you noticed i attacked you (?) for using the term "traitor". you can not name someone a traitor because of his thesis. you can not name a traitor even a greek who's naming them macedonians. in my personal oppinion, the worse and real traitors were always among the so called greek ultra-patriots. dont forgot that mainly the colaborators of the Nazis were ahead of the "patriotic war" against the communists and the "bulgaro-eamites".
if you noticed i never said that i agree with Goran's anti-greek position, which anyway, most times, were under (merely excused) heavy anger status. i know Goran in person and i know much more about him and his views than anybody else here.

My aim, participating here, is to discover "the truth about macedonia" and not to confront in a blind conflict between "us" and "others".

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:07 PM
from IP address 195.97.106.34


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You tell him Stefanos.n/t

by Komita (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:10 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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tell him what?

by stefanos.gr (no login)

n/t

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:13 PM
from IP address 195.97.106.34


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Whatever you were telling him.n/t

by Komita (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:15 PM
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"U HAVE TO DISCOVER IT" GIATI SLAVOGLYFTRA EXEIS AMPHIVOLIES! GIA THN ELLHNIKOTHTA TWN

by MAKEDONWN! PANTOTEI SLAVOFERNEIS! (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:36 PM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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esy voulosto paliomalaka

by stefanos.gr (no login)

kseftylismene komplexike...
kati kseftyles san ki esena me kanoun na ntrepomai pou eimai ELLINAS!


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:46 PM
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GIATI SE PONESE! KATHIKI! DEN LEO PSEMATA!

by H (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:55 PM
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oute ego leo psemata

by stefanos.gr (no login)

otan leo oti eisai kseftylas!!!

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:57 PM
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GIATI SOU KATHGORISAME TO VOULGAROSOISOU!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:01 PM
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an kai den axizeis na sou apantiso...

by stefanos.gr (no login)

mathe avto:

me kaneis kai ntrepomaai giati den exeis ithos!!! eisai fanatikos, varvaros kai apolististos...
na giati...

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:25 PM
from IP address 195.97.106.34


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MA8E KAISU AUTO==> EISAI PA8HTIKOS HESMES! SLAVOFILLOS! APISTOS! EISAI STEFANAKI OXI

by STEFANOS! (no login)

F

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:54 PM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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Hadje haze

by Arkadi (no login)

mizere...de dtrepese

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:18 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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bre Haze e an pires mia Tourkala para digmatos hari

by Arkadi (no login)

de tha theles na dinamosoun Tourko-Hellinikes shesis kai esthimata???

Mi pidiese san ti papia me thimo

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:21 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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ME LIGA LOGIA EINAI KOLOPAIDO!

by ' (no login)

'

Posted on Jan 28, 2006, 12:47 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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STEFANAKI. PARE TI DOSI SOU PROTA KE META ELA NA TA POUME.POUTANITSA.

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 6:26 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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A SLAV SPEAKER CAN NOT BE A MACEDONIAN DEFENDER!MACEDONIANS ARE ONLY THOSE WHO FOUGHT FOR

by HELENISM!& NOT BULGARISM! (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:29 PM
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SLAV SPEAKERS ARE THOSE WHO DENY THE GREEKNESS OF THE MACEDONIANS!BY PORTRAY THEM AS SLAVS

by AND BULGARIAN HEROES! (no login)

E

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:41 PM
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to the nameless "greek" one:

by Nikos (no login)

1)Nikos wrote a whole political manifesto on his friends makedonism.

--->Which "manifesto" you mean? (tststs)

Even left a question mark hanging over the greek origin of ancient macedonians.When another guy used his name and attacked others he exploded in range.

--->Yep cause in this case (forum) the name MUST BE unique. MUST BE. Anf if "you" don't learn the normal way... i MUST use the other way. Sorry for that but it is so.


However he showed absolutely no senstitivity on how real Macedonians feel whenever mass media,politicians, historians,pantoeideis Goran&Nikolakides attack Greece using their name.

-->Of course i have sensitivity about that name... feel FREE to ask about it.

That was an oxymoron.I pointed out the fact initially using no swearing.His response was irony and name-calling of the worst kind.

--->YEP.

For me political manifestos and proud references to the separatist activities of relatives is a U turn, which gives me the right to speak of treason and apostates from the initial cause.

--->You will not understand what i mean (but I understand you).

Nikos

PS: When goran is talkin "anti-greek" stances etc. this does not mean that i favour this nor this reflect my personal opinion.


And some lines from stefanos i agree 100%:

1. you can not name someone a traitor because of his thesis.
2. you can not name a traitor even a greek who's naming them macedonians.
3. if you noticed i never said that i agree with Goran's anti-greek position, which anyway, most times, were under (merely excused) heavy anger status.
4. My aim, participating here, is to discover "the REAL truth about any macedonia"

Last but not least:
--->you should adopt a nickname. "anonymous" is not acceptable for serious people.

Nikos


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 6:25 PM
from IP address 84.59.51.66


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I wont answer unless a name is given to the thread

by Arkadi (no login)

u

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:05 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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Interesting article

by (Login ILLIRIA)

Stephen Schwartz

The Jewish woman stood in the office of Bosnian president Alija Izetbegovic. She was distraught. She placed a handful of broken tiles on the desk in front of her and told the president's adviser, "It's a crime, a crime against culture. They are destroying a holy place, a place that is of incalculable value to Sarajevo."

"There's nothing we can do," the adviser replied sorrowfully. "They have the money and they are going to do what they want."

The most interesting aspect of this incident, which took place after the end of the Bosnian war in 1995, is that the temple the Jewish woman, an art expert named Zoja Finci, was attempting to protect was neither, as one might expect, a synagogue, nor a Serbian church. Rather, it was the Begova or Governor's mosque, the largest in the former Yugoslavia, and the main Islamic structure in Sarajevo.

Further, the presumptive vandals against whom Zoja Finci sought to protect the mosque were neither Serb extremists nor commercial developers. They were, in fact, just the sort of people one might have thought would target a synagogue or a Serb structure: Islamic officials backed by Saudi Arabia, engaged in a purported reconstruction.

The official Supreme Saudi Aid Committee occupies one of the largest governmental buildings in the Bosnian capital. The committee has paid for the rehabilitation of numerous mosques damaged during the 1992-95 war. But the aid is not always appreciated by ordinary Muslims, who, no less than art experts, have ways of expressing their resentments.

At the Alipasha mosque in Sarajevo, a lovely Ottoman structure with a slender, graceful minaret, only meters away from the committee's headquarters, the word "Saudi" has been scratched off the commemorative plaque announcing a donation for its restoration.

The problem is that the Saudis and their local agents are Wahhabis, followers of the main fundamentalist sect in the Islamic world. Wahhabis do not approve of Ottoman mosques. Their rehabilitation of the Imperial mosque, also in Sarajevo, turned what had been a beautiful, balanced complex of buildings, which seemed to invite entry, into something not much different from a parking garage in a Western city.

In October 1999, the Bosnian weekly Dani [Days] published an extremely revealing interview with Kemal Zukic, director of the Center for Islamic Architecture in Sarajevo. The interviewer asked Zukic about the wall decorations in the Begova mosque—precisely the panels, the removal of which caused so much anguish to Zoja Finci. He answered, "There were several layers of paintings, so that in the end we were in a quandary about which layer merited preservation. . . .The biggest contribution came from a Saudi donor. . . .Parts remain but most of the walls are now blank."

Pressed as to whether the panels that were removed would be preserved, Zukic answered testily, "I find it really hard to get excited over decorations inside the mosque. We are not in a situation like the more fortunate European nations, such that we could preserve our cultural heritage. . . .That was only an internal decoration and it was not intended to last forever."

Zukic is a graduate in architecture from the University of Sarajevo who has never practiced that profession, but who has produced elaborate plans for new Bosnian mosques. According to one foreign expert who requested anonymity after an interview with Zukic, "His ideas for mosque design involve knockoffs of Saudi-modern shopping mall architecture with odd touches inspired by the décor of the Love Boat, including portholes! He is the very model of the modern zealot, narrow-minded, arrogant, and so dumb he doesn't even realize it."

But at least the Begova mosque's outer walls remained. Elsewhere in Bosnia-Hercegovina, the fundamentalists, away from urban critics, pursue a more aggressive tactic. Dani reported that Muslims in the rural town of Vrbovik were angry because they had understood funds had been donated for the reconstruction of their traditional, Ottoman mosque, which was on the front line and was destroyed in the 1992-95 war. But that money was diverted elsewhere, while two new mosques and six smaller prayer structures were erected in the Saudi style. The local Islamic cleric, Hadji Salih Avdukovic, commented angrily, "These people are hypocrites. They want to do everything from scratch."

Dani is a sensationalist organ, but in this instance its reportage was on the mark. Thanks to the seemingly inexhaustible financial resources of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, Wahhabis have appeared all over Bosnia-Hercegovina and Kosovo since the bloodshed ended. According to a September 9, 1999 news release by the Saudi Joint Relief Committee for Kosovo, out of four million Saudi riyals spent by the committeeon the ground in Kosovo, nearly half was spent to sponsor 388 religious "propagators" (i.e., missionaries), with the intent of converting Kosovars to Wahhabi fundamentalism.

Another six hundred thousand riyals went for the reconstruction of thirty-seven mosques, and two hundred thousand riyals was spent on two schools. The amount of money involved was fairly modest (four million riyals is a little more than a million U.S. dollars), except when one considers that the Saudis had only been on the scene in Kosovo for a little over two months at that point. It was characteristic that a greater proportion of Saudi aid was spent on fundamentalist "propagators" and on mosque building than on broader humanitarian needs.

Mosque architecture is not the Wahhabis' only interest. Walking the streets of Sarajevo, one might think they have gained considerable influence. Many young men wear "Islamic" beards, and numerous young women have adopted head and shoulder coverings, or hijab. The campus of the University of Sarajevo is especially notable for this habit, and a women's store with the amusing name "Hijab Boutique" opened near the old Ottoman market.

As the defaced plaque at the Alipasha mosque demonstrates, the fundamentalists are definitely unpopular with Balkan Muslims. In Sarajevo, hijab may be more a fad than anything else—and it certainly has not caught on in Kosovo, although many women wear Balkan head scarves.

There are other things that Balkan Muslims favor, but which Wahhabis disapprove. One is veneration of the dead. In Saudi Arabia itself, fundamentalists have, over the past two hundred years, destroyed all the tombs of the companions of the prophet Mohammed. In Kosovo, the Saudis offered to rebuild several mosques in the area of Vushtrri/Vucitrn, which were destroyed during the 1998-99 fighting. They promised the new mosques would be "better and more Islamic." But first, they said, the Albanian Muslims would have to uproot the Ottoman graveyards nearby.

Andras Riedlmayer, a Harvard University librarian and expert in this field, recalls an incident that took place in the Kosovar town of Peja/Pec.

I was told about an incident in 1998, when, as the villages in the surrounding Kosovo countryside were in flames, a group of Wahhabi missionaries—both Arabs and their Kosovar acolytes—came to town and tried to impose their own way of praying (the locals said it involved some "odd" body movements).

When the Wahhabis took out sledgehammers and set aboutsmashing the 17th century gravestones in the garden of Peja's ancient Defterdar Mosque, angry local residents beat them up and chased them out of town. I was shown the damaged gravestones, beautifully carved with floral motifs and verses from Qur'an. That was in the late summer of 1998. Six months later, in the spring of 1999, Serb paramilitaries came and burned down the mosque. Unlike the fundamentalist missionaries, they were not interested in the gravestones.

This sort of hard-shell outlook can scarcely appeal to the nationalistic Albanians, who, like their Serb adversaries, consider their graves to be proof of their claim on Kosovo. But fundamentalist proscriptions go on and on. They do not like music, except for the drum. They do not accept Sufism, or mysticism, as a part of Islam. Both of these strictures run counter to Balkan Muslim traditions.

Balkan Muslims are especially devoted to a practice that drives Wahhabis to fury: mawlid, or, as it is locally called, mevlud, the commemoration of Mohammed's birth. To the fundamentalists, celebrating the prophet's birthday smacks of the Christian-style worship of Jesus. Abdussalam Chouia, a leading spokesman for the so-called Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a body which has spent considerable time harassing the American media over the very use of such terms as "Islamic fundamentalist," professed not even to know what mevlud is. "It isn't part of Islam," he insisted.

CAIR members are, to put it delicately, masters at twisting words. The very idea of an organization concerned with "American-Islamic relations," as if all Americans agreed on Islamic issues, as if Muslim citizens of the U.S. were not Americans, and as if the Islamic world were united in a supposed confrontation with America, is absurdly presumptuous. But CAIR has succeeded in intimidating numerous American newspaper editors into a form of political correctness that involves coddling Palestinian and other extremists under the pretext that "American bigotry" threatens Muslims.

In Bosnia-Hercegovina, many Islamic officials dislike fundamentalist activities but are reluctant to denounce them. The Bosnians are avid for the money. Only a few local Sufis have strongly criticized Wahhabi missionizing, arguing that the long presence of Sufi spiritualism in the Balkans is incompatible with fundamentalist fanaticism. In the end, Balkan Muslims are desperate to be viewed as European, and submission to the will of the Wahhabis will certainly do nothing to advance that agenda.

Kosovo Albanian Muslims have been more forthright in airing their irritabilities on this issue. After all, they do not need the money. The Kosovars have a large emigration that supports their various reconstructive activities, and, in addition, the Kosovo Albanians are far more enterprising than the Bosnians. This is also an incentive for the Kosovars to express greater independence from those in the international community who seek to use a kind of "aid blackmail" to get the Albanians to do what they want. For example, Albanians are inclined to rebuild their homes themselves, rather than, as is the Bosnian habit, wait for the UN or Europe or the U.S. to do it for them.

In one of the more surprising recent developments in Kosovo, the fundamentalists came under verbal fire from the Kosovapress news agency, universally considered to be the media arm of the Kosovo Liberation Army. Kosova press declared:

For more than a century civilized countries have separated religion from the state. [However], we now see attempts not only in Kosovo but everywhere Albanians live to introduce religion into public schools. . . .Supplemental courses for children have been set up by foreign Islamic organizations who hide behind assistance programs. Some radio stations. . .now offer nightly broadcasts in Arabic, which nobody understands and which lead many to ask, are we in an Arab country? It is time for Albanian mosques to be separated from Arab connections and for Islam to be developed on the basis of Albanian culture and customs.

Dr. Rexhep Boja, president of the mainstream Islamic Community of Kosovo, expressed himself similarly, stating boldly that Albanian Muslims had followed their faith for more than five hundred years and did not need anybody to teach them how to be Muslims or how to decorate their mosques.

Nevertheless, the Wahhabis are making much greater inroads in Kosovo than in Bosnia-Hercegovina—notwithstanding Albanian tetchiness and the fashion addiction of Kosovar Albanian women, which makes hijab a rare sight indeed. Here, too, it has to do with elemental requirements. The Bosnians lack financial resources but they do not want for books or trained imams. The Kosovar Albanians do not need money but they have a thirst for books and a shortage of clerics. Many of the latter now go to the Saudis for training.

But the locals are not the only people concerned about the infiltration of Wahhabis in the Balkans. In Albania as well as Bosnia-Hercegovina and Kosovo, anxiety over the activities of Bin Ladin supporters has led American diplomats to entrench themselves behind high, thick walls observing exceptional security measures at their embassies and other diplomatic facilities.

At the end of March, a group of Saudi "aid workers" was rousted by UN police from a building in Prishtina, accused of surveilling foreign vehicles, presumably in preparation for a terrorist attack. A representative of the Saudis, one Al Hadi, complained that the telephone in the building where they resided had been tapped.

The upshot of this situation was visible in the first week of April, when Prishtina saw a spectacle unheard of in Sarajevo. A massive fundamentalist "cultural program" was held in the local sports stadium to celebrate the beginning of the Muslim new year. Thousands of Albanian Muslims, young and old, walked away from the event happily clutching works in Albanian that professed Wahhabi fanaticism. In May, the familiar Saudi Joint Relief Committee laid the foundation of a multimillion dollar cultural, sports, and religious center in the Kosovo capital.

Is there a solution to this problem? Surely there is, but it is ignored by the foreign authorities in Kosovo. Albanians in the region include a considerable Catholic minority, with a distinguished cultural legacy, as well as thousands of followers of heterodox Islamic sects such as the Bektashis, who drink alcohol and follow a kind of Islamic Unitarianism.

In the city of Gjakova/Djakovica, for example, Bektashis and Catholics far outnumber Sunni Muslims. Both the former groups merit assistance in such matters as education, care of orphans, and the reconstruction of destroyed religious architecture. But the foreigners pay no attention to such details. They dismiss the Catholics contemptuously as too few, and know nothing of the Bektashis. Somewhere down the road, however, the consequences of such cultural obliviousness could be disastrous.



Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 12:39 PM
from IP address 64.136.49.229


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these people financed and reinforced your army

by Anonymous (no login)

by the hundreds.Have a little more gratitude, you ungreatful man....
or do you prefer to speak about the connections of your president Sali Berisha with the wahabis residing for years in his Majesty's Court?????


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 12:43 PM
from IP address 62.1.229.211


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Excellent Point...

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

Saudi money is flooding Bosnia, converting people to Wahabbism by the thousands...that's the 'price' paid for Saudi 'help'...I'm sure the Wahabis will be door knocking in Kosovo as well...

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 12:55 PM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 3:04 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.38


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NTAVATZI! WHAT ABOUT THE SERBIAN CHURCHES DESTROYED BY THE ALBANIAN TERATA! AUTA DEN TA

by VLEPEIS! (no login)

V

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 2:48 PM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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