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Welcome to the discussion forum of "The truth about Macedonia"
Here you can have discussions about Macedonia in particular and the Balkans in general.
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WE MUST EXTERMINATE ALL BALKAN TALIBANS.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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starting with the PONTIANS!
by MACEDONIAN BANDIT (no login)from IP address 211.31.18.112
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Excellent place to start....
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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ALL BASTARDS WITH MONGOL ROOTS. LIKE YOU . ASIATIC ANIMALS.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)
VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Nikos in search of his pseudo-macedonian identity.
by Kostas (no login)http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137505461/Re-+hey+Nikos%2C+tolle+Fotos%2C+die+du+da+gezeigt+hast
(so much boasting, so many questions, so many similarities with other apostates ....)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138148046/Nikolaki%2BGoran%2C+who+inspires+you+the+most-
....If I guess your family correctly.
Then YES, you do have 2 Greek uncles from Koritsa/Korce.Not only Kastoria.
And YES the following message was meant for YOU to teach you that the use of Slavic does not mean self-identification with the Skopians.:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138312953/Response+to+the+filoskopianoi+Nikos-Feniks-Goran
You are a traitor of Macedonia and of my people.In Kastoria they call people like you APOSTATES and FILOSKOPIANOUS.Even their relatives denounce them and will have nothing to do with them again.
You propagate the same-old arguments that the Skopians use to persuade Greeks to accept their "geographical rights on the name Macedonian", after "having resided there for 1400 years".ΑΝΑΦΕΡΕΣΑΙ ΣΕ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΕΣ ΤΟΥ ΑΙΓΑΙΟΥ ΚΑΙ ΑΙΓΑΙΑΤΕΣ ΧΡΗΣΙΜΟΠΟΙΩΝΤΑΣ ΟΧΙ ΜΟΝΟ ΤΑ ΕΠΙΧΕΙΡΗΜΑΤΑ, ΑΛΛΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΝ ΔΙΑΛΕΚΤΙΚΗ ΤΩΝ ΣΚΟΠΙΑΝΩΝ.ΈΚΑΝΕΣ ΤΗΝ ΠΑΤΑΤΑ ΝΑ ΜΑΣ ΠΕΙΣ ΟΤΙ Η ΔΑΡΔΑΝΙΑ ΚΑΙ Η ΠΡΩΤΕΥΟΥΣΑ ΤΟΥ ΒΙΛΛΑΕΤΙΟΥ ΚΟΣΣΟΒΟΥ, ΤΑ ΣΚΟΠΙΑ,ΗΤΑΝ ΣΤΗ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ.ΚΑΙ ΜΕΤΑ ΕΡΧΕΣΑΙ ΝΑ ΔΙΔΑΞΕΙΣ ΕΣΥ ΕΜΕΝΑ ΠΕΡΙ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑΣ?
from IP address 195.74.242.141
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I thought you left this forum. Akomi edo eise?
by Ronin (no login)from IP address 84.60.173.162
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Me prokalese me ta pseydh tou
by Anonymous (no login)telos.
from IP address 62.1.229.43
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kai na mh fugeis apo to forum ....
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Macedonia is an example of successful democratic transition
by Komita (no login)27.01.2006
Macedonia - Council of Europe Ministerial Committee
CE COMMITTEE OF MINISTERS WELCOMES MACEDONIA'S CANDIDATE STATUS
Macedonia is an example of successful democratic transition, a country that actively contributes to strengthening the Western Balkan stability, the Council of Europe Ministerial Committee says in a report.
The document, issued by the CE highest executive body in a period between the last two sessions of the CE Parliamentary Assembly, commends Macedonia's achievements - implementing of the Framework Agreement and commencing of the power decentralization process.
These rather positive activities have enabled Macedonia to become a candidate country for the European Union membership, a decision fully supported by the CE Committee of Ministers, the report reads.
from IP address 220.237.198.218
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by REPUBLIKA TITOKLONIJA (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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But it doesn't respect its neigbhors identity ....
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Clasiccist this is the Albania you prey for, and will receive in the end..
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT BULGARISM (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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GLIGOROFF>GLIGOROV>WE ARE SLAVS>PSEUDOMACEDONIANS>YUGO-BULGARS--->
by REPUBLIKA YUGOPLASTIKA (no login)from IP address 212.183.60.129
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Greek-Cypriot Tennis Star Bagdathis is....Lebanese
by Dok (no login)>Melbourne already had become a haven away from home. He won the junior tournament here in 2003, alerting the Greek community, who cherish their own. He had many relatives in Australia anyway, although mostly Lebanese, from his father's side. It meant he would never lack a support network here
from IP address 212.85.15.66
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Apparently His Camp Has Been Giving Away Many Free Tickets
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)...he's played some gutsy tennis and if his luck holds out he could unsettle his opponent in the final, probably Federer at this early stage.
The grk supporters, a motely crew of teenage South Melbourne FC supporters have been very noisey with football like chanting that has given Baghdad extra motivation over his opponents whether this is enough to overcome the steely Swiss is yet to be seen...
from IP address 144.131.20.186
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..." ΦΥΡΟΜ
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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DoK, Isn't This The Story Of The 'Greeks'...?
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)LOL
Long time no read my friend, I trust all is well...
from IP address 144.131.20.186
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by BULGAROSKATA (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..." ΦΥΡΟΜ
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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MOUNOPANO PENIX. HOW ABOUT YOUR MOM WITH THE BIB BOOBYS?
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Hellenism welcomes all and excludes none....
by Arkadi (no login)BTW Diamandi, or Xiomara or whatever the fvck you are why do you LOVE to press our buttons??
from IP address 24.193.2.46
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EXCEPT SLAVOBOULGARS AND TURKOMONGOLS..
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha !!
by Anonymous (Login istor)MALAKA!!
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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MAKEDONIA = ELLAS = 4000 YEARS HISTORY..........................................
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Anyone here like pomegranates?
by (no login)from IP address 24.42.41.81
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Who loves them not! ;-)
by Nikos (no login)
tasty tasty!
Especially as a sirup mixed in "Hemingway Sour"
Nikos
from IP address 84.59.29.100
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You mean "RODIA" ??? l brewed some ouzo with rodia and ahladia.GREAT!!!
by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)from IP address 217.146.50.238
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I LOVE THE MILLS 36.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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OH please I cant have another one of those...
by TPP (no login)from IP address 58.105.22.78
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THAT`S WHY YOU IMIGRATE TO CANADA RIGHT?
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Personal message to me from another forum.....
by Prometheus (no login)2. We don't deny our Slavic roots. In every official history book which is by the way thaught in the schools here, we consider our ancestors to be the Slavs. Ancient Macedonia is never refered to as our legacy.
3. We are not a communist experiment, we are not artificial nation as some claim, we have our own culture and heritige, very similar to the Serbian and Bulgarian one, but still distinct. The fact that our national genesis took a bit longer than with the others doesn't necesarilly mean that we are a sub-culture of the Bulgarians or Serbs.
4. The fact that we identify ourselves as Macedonians is not a product of the "communist propaganda and brainwashing". It is simply the name under which my ancestors started to build our nationhood. We might not trace this back to the ancient times but we can definately trace it to the last 2 centuries.
5. Us identifying as Macedonians is not a threat to Greece, is not an attempt to steal your history or heritige, and the last thing we want to do is deny (try do deny) the right of the Greeks to identify themselves as Macedonians (if they come from this region). If we try to look the things in another way than the balcan black and white way, I'm sure that we can find a solution to share the name.
Now I don't know if these in-sights about your northern neighbour change anything for you, but I had to clarify some things.
I think it is very sad that two neighbouring nations who have so much in common (maybe we have a similar language with the Bulgarians, but you wouldn't beleive how similar are we to Greeks in so many other aspects of life) still pick on each other over such irrelevant matters. It is even sadder that the ignorance on both sides but I have to say especially on the Greek side is so big, that we stigmatize each other on base of very incorrect stereotypes. Of course I don't mean this in a offensive way, it's just that we have much more reasons to travel to Greece than you guys to travel here so we have more chances to see that the world is not black & white as some would like to present it.
PRETTY BRAVE AND HONEST WORDS!!!
BY THE WAY, THE LEAFS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from IP address 67.71.48.200
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I corrected a mistake of yours...
by (no login)There, that's better.
from IP address 24.42.41.81
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BEST regards Prometheus!
by Nikos (no login)Best greetings from Berlin!
Nikos
from IP address 84.59.29.100
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Tell him that if they call their country Macedonia then they deny our right to be called .
by (Login istor)The fact is that in their history school books there is no mention of Macedonians' Greekness while the texts are that smart as to NONE could distinguish ancient Macedonians from those SlavoSkopians !!!
Stefanos could inform us about this!
Don't forget that SlavoSkopians would be really IDIOTS if they insist to be called Macedonian while are not related to ancient Macedonians !!!!!!!!!
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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MAKEDONOMAXOS 8AGINO! STON OLLYMPO 8ANEVW! NATO FWNAKSO MIAFORA!PWS BARBAROUS 8A SFAZW!
by F (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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funny how all neo nazi greaks pick on stefanaki and nikos for being non-negating in your
by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)makedonians or what ever there choosing, therfore, may I
suggest you follow suit.
from IP address 203.214.45.228
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TI LES VRE SLAVIC RIDICULE!WHAT'S MACEDONIAN ON YOU!WHEN U CAN'T EVEN READ WHAT THE
by MACEDONIANS WROTE!GO BACK TO SLEEP!VLAMENO! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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ARHIDI GAMIESE RE POUSTI MALAKAS
by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)from IP address 203.214.45.228
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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LEO. YOUR MOTHER, AND YOUR GIAGIA INE MEGALOS MALAKAS. HAHHAA MOUNOPANO TOU KERATA.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Speaking of suits, Leo...
by (no login)from IP address 24.42.41.81
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GLIGOROFF>GLIGOROV>WE ARE SLAVS>PSEUDOMACEDONIANS>YUGO-BULGARS--->
by BULGAROSKATA (no login)from IP address 212.183.60.129
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THE MACEDONIAN CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE BARBARIC BULGARS OF FYROM WILL CONTINUE!WITH MORE
by PASSION&DETERMINATION!UNTILL WE DEFEAT THEM! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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VELLEIDIO==>H LAVRA MAKEDONIAS!
by S (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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C'mon Greeks Control Your Retarded Spammers...Shame On You
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)And how this site has devolved...with only a few decent chaps left (stefanos and Nikos) and a few sometimes 'interesting' contributors (DAI, Houhoulis, Diamandi and Boris)...it is no longer even worth a short visit, let alone spending hours at a time reading and responding to posts...
One only needs to open the site and he's 'greeted' with "FACK THIS AND FACK THAT" titles with empty content...
You Greeks pride yourselves on the respect you have earned all over the world, as friendly people, western values, educated and cultured...sadly none of this is evident on this forum...the first time visitor will get an entirely degenerate perception of what it is to be Greek today.
Good work grk spammers and retards alike...
from IP address 144.131.20.186
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Especially you..
by "DAI" (no login)offending other forum contributors because of lack of arguments.
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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Boo Hoo...
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)from IP address 144.131.20.186
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You are an insult of yourself..
by "DAI" (no login)Keep on the "good job"..
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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It Is That Type Of Arrogance That Blinds You, DAI
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)The basic premise of any form of discussion or negotiation is respect for each others views...without this basis there can be no start to discussion.
Do you agree my Greek friend...?
from IP address 144.131.20.186
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When did you present me with your views?
by "DAI" (no login)Shall I start posting your absurdities and insults instead?
You call me friend after all those insults.. what shall I make of this? Go figure..
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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BULGARIAN BASTARDE!MACEDONIA IS NOT FOR DEBATE!WHATS THERE TO DISCUSS!SLAVOBULGARIANS HAVE
by NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MACEDONIANS! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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VARDASKA BANANOVINA IS ONLY 21% MAKEDONIAN SOIL... REST IS ALBANIA. WE WANT THE 21% BACK
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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Hmmm
by (no login)2) The big-time spammers have been at it here for at least the last two years. You've been here for far longer (five years?), and suddenly now this is a problem for you?
3) The only way to get rid of the spam is for the administrator to act. He has shown absolutely no interest in editing this forum save for removing the occassional post featuring extremely pornographic pictures. I was banned twice from Bill Nicholov's old M-4-M forum simply because he didn't like my opinions, and I was never obscene and never spammed. Given these two extremes, I'll take the total freedom of this forum.
4) We all have three options: learn to live with it, reduce our visits here, or stop visiting here.
from IP address 24.42.41.81
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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Nikos is Goran a Macedonian or is Stefanos a Macedonian
by Arkadi (no login)In my Book Goran is a SlavMmacedonian
while Stefanos is Macedonian
from IP address 66.106.241.14
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Your 'Book' Isn't The Bible...
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)You arrogant fvck...
Get off Niko's case, the guy has a Macedonian friend...get over it.
from IP address 144.131.20.186
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bulgarian pitchika! untill yesterday your fathers were aetheist communists! communism was
by your religion!who r u to judge the bible! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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What kind of Macedonian names is Goran?
by John (no login)from IP address 220.237.147.71
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goran===>a bulgar! by all means!no questions asked!
by g (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Take it as it appears:If he says Matsedonskji and Solun ,so he is a Voulgaros maybe resid
by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)from IP address 195.66.126.231
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mporeis na mou peis gia poio logo/skopo enas hellinofronos mhlaei thn slavovoulgarikh
by dialecto?when there is no need for it! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Both are! Stef is a greek macedonian and Goran an "slav" macedonian... BUT:
by Nikos (no login)I am more a realist. And thats the way i LOVE.
BEST Regards Arkadi!
Nikos
from IP address 84.59.29.100
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your stance is respected
by Arkadi (no login)http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138355834/DoK,+Isn't+This+The+Story+Of+The+'Greeks'...-
Is Feniks a Macedonian??? If you answer yes Ill be bewildered, I know Goran is not a venemous antiGreek but what about this cocksvcker Penix
from IP address 24.193.2.46
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Re: your stance is respected
by Anonymous (no login)Nikos speaks german and greek but he has spat on Macedonia's greekness.THAT'S WHY HE IS A TRAITOR OF THE CAUSE DECLARED ABOVE
from IP address 62.1.229.43
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But Goran denies that he is a Slavomacedonian !!
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Lets ignore all the spammer irrespective their nationality.
by Ronin (no login)from IP address 84.60.144.209
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THE GREEKNESS OF THE MACEDONIANS IS NOT 4DEBATE! IT'S ABOUT WHEN WILL GREECE BE MILITARILY
by READY TO DECLARE WAR AGAINST THE BARBARIANS! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Petros Houhoulis - my response.
by Peperki (no login)I will readily admit that I do not have such a detailed knowledge of ancient Macedonian history, so I will not try to dispute what you have written. On that same note, I am sure that what you have written can be found in hundreds of books, so how could I possibly dispute the historians? I will answer that later on.
So, what I will try to discuss with you is my opinion (that is what a discussion is, isn’t it?).
You clearly write that there was no Greek or Hellenic state/country, and that it was a “culture” instead, and yet that does not give you any basis for lumping the Macedonians in with the rest of the bunch. You cannot make the sweeping generalization that the ancient Macedonians were the same as the other Hellenic tribes just because they shared the same culture. That is like saying the Chinese and Japanese are the same. Well, which are they, Chinese or Japanese? Sure we can lump them all (with Korean, Thai, Laos etc…) together and call them Asian – but that doesn’t mean that they are THE SAME. Obviously ancient Macedonia outshined the others in conquering the Persians, just as the Athenians outshined everyone else in…., I don’t know…, geometry? To sum it all up, modern Greeks obviously would like to include the ancient Macedonians in their history – and have bits and parts of history to back them up, so the historians come to the same conclusions – but that is only one, GENERAL opinion.
Actually, at this point I want to change the discussion slightly. Have you read “The DaVinci Code”? If you haven’t, I’m sure I can still make my point. The controversy of the book is that Christian history is portrayed completely opposite to what we have been taught. The book gives logical and thought provoking reasons why we have been taught what we have and what the actual truth could be. The point the book tries to make is that what we have known to be true for 2000 years could actually be one big farce. I’m not talking about the spiritual religion ("Jesus Christ our saviour", etc…), I mean the actual story of Christ, Constantine, et al., the whole bible. The key theme is that Christianity as we know it was “created” for the financial gain of those in power (knowing that you are not religious, I am sure you already know that). Having said all that, my point is that if (and it’s a big IF, because the book is fiction) the book is true, then millions of people would have to re-evaluate their beliefs. Many would refuse to do so and many would embrace the new truth and many would be somewhere in between.
It is not in your favour to dispute what you/Greeks have been taught about the ancient Macedonians, you believe it to be true, you have a hundred books that prove it – how could you think otherwise? What I am trying to point out is that your perception of the truth is a little one sided.
Another point I would like to make about history, is that history has always been written by those in power. Those in power can easily influence what is recorded. It happens today, so why wouldn’t it happen 2000 years ago. Macedonians have not had power since Alexander’s time, Macedonians have been under a different rule since then and have NOT had their history recorded by themselves, but by others.
Let’s move on to modern Macedonian history. I am not going to go into much detail about the numerous wars and politics that happened over the past 100 or so years – as with ancient Macedonian history, the same can be said about “modern” history – the Macedonians (and I’ll call ourselves Macedonian, because I do not know any alternative), having been under various different rules for 2000 years, did not have the resources and support to establish a formal, organized leadership – and thus, could not write their own history. Clearly the most valuable aspect of our modern history is the Ilinden uprising. Macedonians wanted an independent Macedonia. Regardless of what a person spoke, or what they were "classified" as (ie: Greek, Vlach, Bulgarian, etc…) they wanted an independent Macedonia (independent of Greece, Bulgaria, etc…). That is my definition of a Macedonian. (the Ilinden uprising is just one example of Macedonian unity)
As you may (or may not) know, my parents come from northern Greece. Many of our customs and language has been taken from the Greeks, however, we are not Greek. Greeks think that we are all Bulgarians because our other customs and majority of our language is similar to Bulgarian. My parents came to Canada without even knowing that there was a province in Yugoslavia called Macedonia. They didn’t have a clue what Tito was supposedly trying to do. My parents are not historians or politicians – all they know is that they were discriminated against, forbidden to speak their own language, forced to learn Greek, etc… When they found out that a Macedonian church was being built in Toronto (and that the congregation was mostly Macedonians from northern Greece), they were ecstatic (in Canada they could worship in Macedonian freely!). When they met Macedonians from Yugoslavia (maybe not from Skopje, but from a village), and could understand them, they were ecstatic. When they first saw books written in Macedonian and not Bulgarian (yes, the languages are different – although a Greek wouldn’t be able to hear the difference), they were ecstatic. Thus, they embraced anything and everything that came from Yugoslavia. After the hardship they experienced in Greece, their Macedonian identity was finally being VALIDATED. Canada was able to give them that, whereas they would never have been able to experience that if they stayed in Greece.
So how can you tell me, when my great-grandparents fought for an independent Macedonia, that I am not Macedonian. If you want to keep your arguments based on your version of ancient Macedonia, then we really have nothing more to discuss.
In your last post you quote me and also wrote “Finally, you are really funny when you suggest that "...only 200 people in Greece think they are Macedonian..." In fact, your problem is that more than 2 million people in Greece declare themselves to be Macedonian, and more than 1 million are indigenous. They just have a different and more accurate meaning for that word...
I don’t disagree that you and 2 million others are Macedonian, however you do not agree that I am Macedonian as well. You seem to believe that only Greeks can be Macedonian. You have been taught the meaning of the word and you think it is accurate, just like in “The DaVinci Code”, maybe you have been taught something that only benefited the powers that be for financial gain. CAN you think differently just for a second? Or is it easier to keep the status quo? Changing the status quo would, in your mind, mean defeat – and yet, that is a very shallow way of looking at history. If you can't open your mind, we don't have anything to discuss.
As for the name issue, unfortunately for you, Greece has lost. We will either get a hyphenated name, or the name "Macedonia" will be spelled with a “j” and “k”. If and when this does happen, maybe then you will be able to alter your perspective of Macedonian history a little bit.
These discussions started because you thought I might have something to discuss, as opposed to me being someone who just wants to insult everyone on the forum. Like I said in the beginning, when I made any progress with anyone in the past on these forums, but then it got "too close to comfort" – because they didn’t want to alter their narrow minded perspective - they would resort to spewing off facts and quotes in defence, which meant the end of the discussion.
We’ll see how you respond now.
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IF YOU TRULLY FOUGHT 4MACEDONIA! U WOULD RESPECT THEIR MACEDONIAN HELLENIC LEGACY!INSTEAD
by U DENY THEM!&PORTRAY THEM AS SLAVS!!!! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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U FOUGHT 4MACEDONIA 4THE SAKE OF LAND!THE NAME&EVERYTHING THAT GOES WITH IT!NOT 4PATRIOTIC
by REASONS!U R SLAVIC THEIVES!NOT MACEDONIANS! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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U DON'T HAVETO FANTASIZE WITH YOUR MIND!ALL U GOT TO DO IS LOOK AT THE INSCRIPTIONS(FACTS)
by MACEDONIANS LEFT US!THEY WERE HELLENES! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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THERE IS NO FVCKEN WAY!GREECE WILL ALLOW FYROMS SLAVS TO SLAVISIZE THE GREEKNESS OF THESE
by MACEDONIANS! (no login)by OF THESE MACEDONIANS! (no login)
BULGARIAN IMPOSTER!!!THE HELLENIC ORIGIN OF MACEDONIA IS WRITTEN IN STONE.
by THESE ARE THE MACEDONIANS! (no login)
The names of the kings of ancient Macedonia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are the names of the kings of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. If you can find any non-Greek name in those, then please send me a message, otherwise, you should wonder why they are all Greek...
ARGEAD dynasty and their mythical ancestors
Hercules
Illos
Kleodaios
Aristomachos
Timmenos
Kissios
Thestios
Merops
Aristodamidas
Phidon
Karanos (Late 9th/Early 8th Cent.BC) He built the city Aeges (Vergina)
Koinos (Mid-8th Cent.BC)
Tyrimmas (Late 8th/Early 7th Cent.BC)
Perdikkas I (670-652BC)
Argaios I (652-621BC)
Philippos I (621-588BC)
Aeropos I (588-568BC)
Alketas (568-540BC)
Amyntas I (540-498BC) From this period we have the first historical records
Alexandros I (498-454BC) Participated in the Olympics and received the title of the Philellin
Perdikkas II (454-413BC)
Archelaos I (413-399BC) Made Pella the capital of his kingdom
Orestis (399-396BC)
Aeropos II (396-393BC)
Pausanias (393BC)
Amyntas II the Lioras (393BC)
Amyntas III (392-370BC)
Alexandros II (370-368BC)
Ptolemeos Alorites (368-365BC)
Perdikkas III (365-359BC)
Philippos II (359-336BC) He first managed to unify the Greek states under his hegemony
Alexandros III the Great (336-323BC) His expedition spread the Greek culture and created a great empire
Philippos III Arrhidaios (323-321BC) Brother of Alexander III the Great, mentally incapable
Antipatros (321-319BC) He was appointed king until Alexander IV* would become adult
*Alexandros IV was the son of Alexander III and Roxani and they were both murdered by Kassandros in 310 BC
Immediately after Alexander's III death started the competition between his generals (Ptolemeos, Antigonos, Lysimachos, Eumenis, Leonatos, Seleukos, Dimitrios) for the throne of his empire. Very soon the empire was divided into 5-6 states that competed eachother, until the conquer by the Romans.
RIVAL KINGS: 319-301 BC
Kassandros Son of Antipatros that built Thessaloniki
Antigonos I Monophthalmos (319-301BC)
Dimitrios I Poliorkitis Son of Antigonos
Lysimachos
Seleukos Soter
Ptolemeos Lagos
ANTIPATRID dynasty
Kassandros
Philippos IV
Antipatros
Alexandros V
RIVAL RULERS
Dimitrios I Poliorkitis (294-288BC)
Pyrrhos (288-285BC)
Lysimachos (285-281BC)
Ptolemeos Keravnos (281-279BC) He was defeated by the Galats
ANARCHY
Meleager (279BC)
Antipatros Etesias (279BC)
Sosthenis (279-277BC)
ANTIGONID dynasty
Antigonos II Gonatas (277-239BC) He reorganized the Macedonian kingdom
Dimitrios II (239-229BC)
Antigonos III Doson (229-222BC)
Philippos V (221-179BC)
Perseus (179-168BC) He was defeated by the Romans in 168 at Pydna
As you can see for yourself all the names of the kings are 100% Greek. The "historians" of FYROM, to overcome that problem, simply claim that the kings of Macedonia were hellenized but the people of Macedonia were not Greek! That is a smart trick for a propagandist, but it is very stupid for a historian. They interpret the facts only in the way that suits them best. If the people of Macedonia were not Greek then wouldn't there be any record of any kind of revolution against their "hellenized and therefore hostile" kings? Isn't that logical enough, or do we have to fantasize about ancient and mysterious conspiracies?
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BOTTOM LINE===>IF U WERE TRULLY MACEDONIANS!U WOULD WANT TO BE JUST LIKETHEM!BUT INSTEAD
by U DENY THEM&ACT LIKE BULGARIANS! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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THEREFORE YOU ARE BULGARIANS&NOT MACEDONIANS!
by F (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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WHICH FATHER! DENIES TO NAME HIS SON AFTER HIS FATHER!! MAKES SENSE!
by D (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by AJVAROVSKI (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
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Some quick notes..
by "DAI" (no login)All I know is that I can read their texts (like in the Museum of Louvre) but so can a classic scholar.
Ethnicity is a shared state of mind with tangible manifestations though.
You say that you are Macedonian (which is your right of course) and that it's fine with you that some 2.5 million Greeks say that they are Macedonians too.
How can you say that though? Your "Macedonia" 's national anthem praises some Bulgarian high school teachers. Ours not.
Our Macedonians were preached Christianity by Apostle Paul (hence the Epistles to Thessaloniceans and Philippeans). Your "Macedonians" were preached Christianity by the Apostles of the Slavs of which you are so "proud" of.
Our Macedonians fought against Hitler in World War II. Your Macedonians greeted them and the Bulgarians as liberators!
For us, Macedonia goes up to Bitola (Heraclea Lychnidos). For you it includes Skopjie, the capital of the ancient Dardanians and Tito Veles the capital of the Paeonians all of which were at war with the Macedonians.
And so on and so on..
It has been shown that the "Macedonia for Macedonians" was a moto conceived by the Bulgars to appease the great powers who just 25 years ago cut in pieces their "great Bulgaria" which was a Russian Panslavistic creation to begin with. For sure the moto appealed to most of the people of Macedonia at the time shicne they were seeing the Serbians, Greeks and Bulgarians getting their freedom and themselves staying under the Turks.
We see how nations are created... and Tito's Macedonians are not an exception. Are not the Austrians Germans? Are not the Montenegrins Serbians? Are not the Cypriots Greeks? Are not the Taiwanese Chinese?
Anyway the case is not lost. There will be a compromise over a shared use of the term Macedonia till the Albanians overtake you and unite with mainland Albania and this will be the end of the story.
We will be both dead by then so why worry?
PS. As for Da Vinci Code... Of course Christianism died when it became a state sponsored religion like all other religions before and after that..
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I disagree with what you say, but more so on these two points.
by Peperki (no login)That opinion is completely ludicrous. There is NO WAY you can say the Paul only preached to Greeks - try and distort the bible a little more, won't you.
You said: "Our Macedonians fought against Hitler in World War II. Your Macedonians greeted them and the Bulgarians as liberators!"
If it wasn't for the slavs, Greece would be singing the German anthem right now! Please, please, PLEASE find me some quote to prove that MY Macedonians greeted the Nazi's as liberators.
Either you don't know the bible and history, or you are so completely narcissistic that you can't see straight.
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LISTEN SLAVIC AETHEIST COMMIE!THE APOSTLES DID PREACH IN GREEK!NOT IN SLAVIC!BECAUSE THEY
by KNEW MACEDONIANS WERE GREEKS!NOT SLAVS! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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AND OFCOURSE THEY PREACHED FOR ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!
by S (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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YOU DID GREETED THE NAZIS AS LIBERATORS!WHILE WE RESISTED!& BY DELAY THEM CRITICAL TIMING
by THEY LOST THE WAR! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
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FYROMS ETHNOGENESIS
by . (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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FYROMS ETHNOGENISIS
by . (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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AT 800 BC THE MACEDONIAN ETHNOGENESIS WAS REALITY,MACEDONIANS USE TH CITY STATES CALTURE
by FOR THEIR OWN BENEFITS, (no login)by ITALIANS CALL YOU GRAECI (no login)
Homer lived many generations after the Trojan War.
The Greeks of the epics didn't describe themselves as Greeks (Hellenes), but as Achaeans, Danaans, etc.
"Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name .... The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name, nor indeed any of them
except the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes: in his poems they are called Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans"
- Thucydides
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships
The Yaunβ in Asia Minor revolted in 499, but they were subjected again. Now, it was clear to the Persian government that the possessions in Asia Minor could be safe only when the Yaunβ in the west were subjected as well.
Two years later, king Darius sent a new expedition to the west. The commanders were Datis and Artaphernes. Herodotus presents the expedition as a punitive action against Eretria and Athens, who had helped the Ionians during their revolt of 499.
The modern English word Greek is derived from Latin Graecus, which in turn comes from Greek Γραικός (Graikos), the name of a Boeotian tribe that migrated to Italy in the 8th century BC, and it is by that name the Hellenes were known in the West. Homer, while reciting the Boeotian forces in the Iliad's Catalogue of Ships, provides the first known reference to a Boeotian city named Graea,[24] and Pausanias mentions that Graea was the name of the ancient city of Tanagra.[25] Cumae, a city lying to the west of Neapolis (now Naples) and south of Rome, was founded by Cymaeans and Chalkideans as well as Graeans who by coming into contact with Romans may very well be responsible for naming all Hellenic speaking tribes Graeci. The modern Italian city of Grai was also founded in antiquity by Graeans.
The concept of Hellene for a person of Greek origin was already well established since the late Middle Ages, but for the majority of the population, especially those in rural areas away from urban centers, the dominant perception was still that of a Roman, a descendant of the Byzantine Empire. Scholar Rigas Feraios called "Bulgars and Arvanites, Armenians and Romans" to rise in arms against the Ottomans.[57] General Makrygiannis recalled a friend asking him: "What say you, is the Roman far away from coming? Are we to sleep with the Turks and awaken with the Romans?"[58]
Greek (Γραικός) was the least popular of the three terms, but interestingly enough received by scholars disproportionately larger attention compared to its popular use. Adamantios Korais, a renowned Greek classicist, justified his preference in A Dialogue between Two Greeks: "Our ancestors used to call themselves Greeks
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YUGOBULGAROSKATA (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
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AT 800 BC, THE MACEDONIAN ETHNOS HAVE A NAME ! DID THE CITY STATES HAVE A NAME ?
by WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE CITY STATE ETHNOS ? (no login)from IP address 72.140.251.131
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Antio Skopianoproskynhmeno forum
by Kostas (no login)Ana8ema to xrono pou perasa diabazontas tis malakies sas edw mesa.Se afhnw me tous amorfotous "oneliners" sou, ton akathoristou ethikothtas apostath Niko, tous Skopianous filous tou na ton xeirokrotoun, kai tous Ellhnes kai ellhnikhs katagwghs amerikanous sou na propagandizoun to dikaiwma twn Skopianwn sto onoma twn Makedonwn gia xarh ths "eirhnhs", ths "adefosynhs" kai ths "istorikis alitheias".
"Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek culture and civilization".
Ante geia!
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YG: Stefane h proklhsh pantos isxyei
by Anonymous (no login)from IP address 195.74.237.200
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Adikeis tov eauto sou...
by "DAI" (no login)Eisai sigouros oti diabases prosektika to prwto minima tou Nikou?
Dev to vomizw..
O ka8e av8rwpos exei to dikaiwma tou autoprosdiorismou... auto mnv to 3exvas.
To forum gia meva ntav kai eivai megaln pngn plnrofornsns kai proklnsns autwv pou vomiza kai vomizw pou telika 8emeliwvei tekmeriwmeva ta osa pisteuw.
Autoi oi av8rwpoi eivai ta megalutera 8umata tns Balkavikns paravoias. Opws pame 8a mas 3avagivouv Boulgaroi kai 8a ta broume mprosta mas.
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DAI den ta pas kala
by s (no login)from IP address 138.217.124.111
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Einai...
by "DAI" (no login)Gia katse na enothoun me tous allous Boulgarous kai na exoun tin anoixti koilada tou Aksiou 80 km apo Thessaloniki kai tha sou po ego...
Mia xara ta paw..
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Kosta, ypervalleis....
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
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THERE IS NO DOUBT!OFCOURSE THEY ARE!
by S (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Για τελευταία φορά
by Κώστας (no login)Αυτοπροσδιορισμός είναι η απάτη και η παράνοια?Αυτά τα πράγματα είναι πρωτοφανή.
Βρεθήκαμε με απόφαση ευρωπαϊκού δικαστηρίου να απαγορεύεται σε μακεδονικούς συλλόγους της Ιταλίας να φέρουν το όνομα "μακεδονία" εφόσον δεν αυτοπροσδιορίζονται ως ομοεθνείς των Σκοπιανών. Μακεδόνες της διασποράς έχουν πάψει να χρησιμοποιούν αυτό το όνομα γιατί τους περνάνε για Σκοπιανούς άλλοι Έλληνες μετανάστες.
70% της βιβλιογραφίας σε Harvard,Princeton kai Columbia αρνούνται την ελληνική καταγωγή των μακεδόνων.90% αμφισβητεί τη σημαντική παρουσία ελλήνων σε αυτό το χώρο κατά το 19ο αιώνα.
Μας παρουσιάζουν διεθνώς ως καταπατητές της θεσσαλονίκης ακόμη και σε επίσημα έγγραφα των στρατιωτικών αποστολών των ΗΠΑ στα βαλκάνια και εσύ μου μιλάς για αυτοπροσδιορισμούς?
Σε παρακαλώ.Ασχολείστε τόσα χρόνια με αυτά τα θέματα και δεν έχετε καταλάβει ΤΙΠΟΤΑ?
Για ποια θύματα μιλάς?Και οι Γερμανοί του μεσοπολέμου ήταν θύματα με την ίδια λογική.Το ίδιο και οι Σουδήτες.
Σημαίνει αυτό ότι δεν αποτέλεσαν κίνδυνο πρώτου μεγέθους για καμία χώρα?
Και έρχεται τώρα ο Νικος να μας πείσει για τη μακεδονικότητα αυτών των ανθρώπων?να υπερηφανευτεί για την αυτονομιστική δράση του θείου του στην καστοριά και ότι θα έρθει στην μακεδονία να ανιχνεύσει τις ρίζες του?Αν αισθάνεται Έλληνας ας πάει να καταχωνιαστεί κάπου από ντροπή για όσα είπε και το φτύσιμο που έριξε στους μακεδόνες συμπατριώτες του κάθε φορά που μιλούσε για "Μακεδόνες" τύπου Goran.
ή υπερασπίζεσαι τα συμφέροντα και την ακεραιότητα της χώρας σου ή όταν δεν θέλεις να το πράξεις, σωπαίνεις για να μην κάνεις μεγαλύτερη ζημιά.Και πραγματικά δεν βλέπω κανένα λόγο να συνεχιστεί αυτό το forum όταν εδώ υπό τον τίτλο "Μακεδόνες είναι οι Έλληνες" απλά προπαγανδίζεται το "ανθρωπιστικό δράμα" των σκοπιανών που δεν τους αναγνωρίζουμε ως Μακεδόνες.και μάλιστα όλα αυτά από Έλληνες!
Μιλάς για μεγάλη Βουλγαρία.
Ξέρεις πολύ καλά ότι δεν ευνοείται πλέον η δημιουργία μεγάλων,ενιαίων και εθνικά ισχυρών οντοτήτων.
Αντίθετα επιδιώκεται ο κατακερματισμός άυτού του χώρου σε ολοένα μικρότερα, οικονομικώς ασθενέστερα, εσωτερικώς διχασμένα και εθνολογικώς "ομιχλώδη" μορφώματα τύπου "Makedonia"
Αυτά που πρέπει να φοβάσαι είναι τα κρατίδια τύπου fyrom και " τουρκικής δημοκρατίας της βόρειας κύπρου" γιατί αυτά ακριβώς τα κρατίδια συνήθως έχουν πίσω τους πολύ ισχυρότερες δυνάμεις οι οποίες τα χρησιμοποιούν, τα ελέγχουν και τα καθοδηγούν πλήρως.
Προπαγανδίζοντας τις θέσεις των σκοπιανών περί μακεδονισμού στους Έλληνες νομίζεις ότι βλάπτεις τους Βούλγαρους ή ότι προστατεύεις τη χώρα σου?Τότε ας πάψουν να ξοδεύουν τόσα εκατομμύρια δολλάρια για "δωρεές" στο Harvard,Princeton,etc,etc Greek helsinki Monitor και λοιπόν προοδευτικών δυνάμεων ή να στηρίζουν τους αξιότιμους έλληνες καθηγητές τύπου Ricky Van Boeschoten, Karakasidou και Τσιάκαλου.Ας κάνουμε μόνοι μας τη δουλειά αυτή δωρεάν, αφού είναι αυτή η λύση και δεν το είχαμε καταλάβει τόσο καιρό....
Ήταν τιμή μου η συζήτηση μαζί σου, όμως δεν βλέπω κανένα λόγο να συνεχίσω να ασχολούμαι με αυτή την ξεφτίλα εδώ μέσα.
Αντίο
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FILE! H LUSH EINAI MIA! "ELEFTHERIA H THANATOS" AKOMA MIA FORA!
by D (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Καμία τελευταία φορά...
by "DAI" (no login)Που λες... ο Μακεδονισμός είναι και Ελληνική εφεύρεση... βλέπεις κι εμάς μας βόλευε η αποΒουλγαροποίηση των Βουλγάρων τότε (πρώτο μισό του 20ου αιώνα).
Για τον ίδιο λόγο δεχθήκαμε την διδασκαλία στα Τούρκικα των Πομάκων μήπως και μας Βουλγαρίσουν και πάλι.
Έχω σπίτι μου χάρτη του παππού μου από τα 1925 (στρατιωτική γεωγρσαφία στη σχολή ευελπίδων) που αναφέρεται σε 80.000 Σλάβους της Μακεδονίας ή αλλιώς "Μακεδόνες".. την ίδια εποχή που οι Σέρβοι εγκατέλειπαν τις προσπάθειές τους να τους πείσουν ότι είναι Σερβοι..
Σε άλλο χάρτη του 1947 οι ίδιοι αναφέρονται ως Βούλγαροι! Και μην ακούσω τίποτε για τον παππού μου που ήταν υπασπιστής του Κατσιμήτρου στην Πίνδο και αρχιΔεξιός στον εμφύλιο.
Τελοσπάντων βλέπεις μια ομάδα πληθυσμού την οποία έχουν δοκιμάσει να την εκσερβίσουν, επαναβουλγαροποιήσουν (1914-1918 και 1941-1944) και εξελληνίσουν ή να καταδιώξουν ως Βούλγαρους λόγω της γλώσσας τους.
Ε και αυτοί τι να κάνουν, ασπάστηκαν τον τοπικισμό τους που έντεχνα ενισχύθηκε από Τίτο και έγιναν "Μακεδονικώτεροι των Μακεδόνων" όπως οι γενίτσαροι γίνονταν Οθωμανικώτεροι των Οθομανών.
Τα ίδια μπορείς να δεις και στην Κύπρο σήμερα.. Πολλοί λένε αρκετά με Έλληνες, Τούρκους, κτλ κτλ.. είμαστε Κύπριοι, με τις επεμβλασεις σας μας έχετα πρήξει και να πάτε να πνιγείτε..
Επειδή παρεξηγήθηκα σε σχέση με αυτό που είπα με το δικαίωμα του αυτοπροσδορισμού.. εννοούσα τον ατομικό. Επειδή το έχω συζητήσει και με "Σκοπιανούς" (αυτό τι είναι πάλι αν όχι μια προσβολή εκ μέρους των Ελλήνων εις βάρος τους
τους έχω εξηγήσει ότι σέβομαι τον αυτοχαρακτηρισμό τους ως τέτοιους αλλά δεν μπορώ να δεχθώ την ύπαρξη άλλης Μακεδονικής οντότητας εκτός της ευρύτερης Ελληνικής και ό,τι υπάρχει πρόβλημα "ορισμών" όπως γράφω και πιο πάνω: http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138320863/Some+quick+notes ... Αυτά που λες εσύ είναι περιπτώσεις που αφορούν ομάδες ανθρώπων και φυσικά ως τέτοιοι "Μακεδόνες" δεν υφίστανται άλλοι εκτός από τους Έλληνες Μακεδόνες.
Το θέμα είναι πως θα τους προσεγγίσουμε για να τους κάνουμε δικούς μας. Η κάρτα του αντιΒουλγαρισμού τους είναι πολύ ισχυρή και πάμε καλά σε αυτό. Με το να προσπαθούμε να τους πείσουμε ό,τι είναι Βούλγαροι (άλλο αν είναι!) τους στέλνομε στην αγκαλιά της Βουλγαρίας.
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Προσπάθησα να εξηγήσω και στον Τόνι
by Anonymous (no login)Στο Στρεμπενο δυτικής Μακεδονίας π.χ. οι κάτοικοι έχουν καταγωγή από Βόλο και Άγραφα περιοχές δίχως σλαβική παρουσία.
όμως μέχρι πριν μερικές δεκαετίες είχαν υιοθετήσει τα σλαβικά ως μητρική γλώσσα.Σλαβική γλώσσα δεν σημαίνει και σλαβική καταγωγή.
Επίσης, Άλλα είναι τα σλαβικά στη φλώρινα και άλλα στην Έδεσσα.Ακόμη και μέσα στη φλώρινα τα μιλάνε αλλιώς μεταξύ τους.Διαφορετικές ομάδες μεταξύ τους.Δεν καταλαβαίνονται.Ακόμη και για είδη καθημερινής χρήσης δεν έχουν κοινή λέξη.Το κουτάλι π.χ. είναι για άλλους lasitza kai gia άλλους bulela.
Όσο για τη γλώσσα των σκοπίων αυτή είναι καθαρά τεχνητό κατασκεύασμα.Αυτό είναι που προσπάθησα να πω στον τόνυ όταν έγραφε συλλήβδην για "σλαβόφωνους μακεδόνες".
Όταν έγινε ο β' Παγκόσμιος οι ελληνικές αρχές μοίραζαν προκηρύξεις "Βούλγαρε πάρε τα όπλα και υπερασπίσου τη χώρα σου"
Όλοι δηλαδή σε ένα τσουβάλι.Μαζί και οι Έλληνες φλωρινιώτες.Για αυτό λοιπόν άσε τα βιβλία των στρατιωτικών σχολών.Μάθε επίσης, πως
Όταν πήγαιναν μετανάστες στην αμερική και έμπαιναν σε ελληνική εκκλησία οι παπάδες εκεί συνήθως ήταν από πελοπόνησο, οπότε τους ρωτούσαν: "από πού είσαι εσύ?Μακεδονία?(εδώ ξύνιζαν τα μούτα τους.και τι γλώσσα μιλάς?Α!!!μα εσύ δεν είσαι έλληνας.Έχει βουλγαρική εκκλησία απέναντι".
Στην εκκλησία μάλιστα που ήταν παπάς ο πατέρας του George Stefanopoulos, έβγαινε στο τέλος της λειτουργίας και έψελνε με ένα δίσκο για χρήματα"Δίνετε να σας ευλογεί ο θεός.Να φτιάξετε δική σας εκκλησία να μην πιάνετε τα στασίδια που είναι για τους Έλληνες"
Κάτσε ακόμα και σκέψου γιατί η "σκοπιανή" ταυτότητα αναπτύχθηκε κυρίως σε αυτούς που υπέστησαν την πολιτική καθοδήγηση του Κ.Κ.Ε.Διάβασες τα δημαγωγικά δημοσιεύματά τους που παρέθεσα στον Στέφανο.
Πού είχε ξανακούσει ο άσχετος και αμόρφωτος αγρότης στα σύνορα περί μακεδονικού έθνους?
Τα τοπικά όργανα του κόμματος είχαν αναλάβει την προώθηση μιας πολύ συγκερκιμένης πολιτικής η οποία είχε προ-αποφασιστεί από την κομιντερν.Ακόμη και ημερολόγια που απεικόνιζαν τις ενωμένες τρεις μακεδονίες τύπωναν και τα μοίραζαν προς διασπορά ζιζανίων στους χωρικούς.
Ο οπαδός του Κ.Κ. που μετεξελίχτηκε σε "σλαβομακεδόνα" είχε λοιπόν υποστεί καταπίεση, ενώ ο δεξιός που μετεξελίχτηκε σε βούλγαρο όχι?
Και γιατί άλλοι παρέμειναν έλληνες?κάτι λείπει λοιπόν από την κοσμοθεωρία σου.
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WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS! OTAN EISAI SLAVOFONOS SHNITHOS EISAI SLAVOS!BECAUSE YOU HAVE SLAVIC
by CONSCIENCE! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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The truth is that this forum can be more meaningfull! something has to change!
by d (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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FILE! EAN OI PROGONOIMAS EIXAN TO DIKOSOU THAROS!YPOMONH!ORAMA! ELLADA DEN THA YPHRXE!
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Κώστα,πρώτη φορά σε διαβάζω και απορώ γιατί δεν σε έχω διαβάσει πρίν.Νομίζω ότι πρέπει να
by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)from IP address 195.66.126.231
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AKRIBWS!
by B (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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DIKAIOMA TWN SKOPIANWN? TI ENOEIS??
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SLAVOGLYFTRA ESU EISAI!!NA PAS TO KALO!&KALO TAXIDI!
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Response to the filoskopianoi Nikos-Feniks-Goran
by Kostas (no login)http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138276841/Is+The+Forum+Owners+Name++Sideris...---
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138222166/Goran+is+a+MACEDONIAN%21
Sho gluposti se ovie be!!! Sram na tebe fyro-zombies!!!
jas sum Macedonec od Kastoria.Feniks, povekje Macedonec sum od tebe. Jas ziveem i rabotam tuka vo
Makedonija (vo Grcija, ako site znaat deka: Makedonija=Grcija) ama ti
kaj si i kaj ziveesh i rabotish?
Zoshto be ne sakate i vie da
bidete Grcite? I sho barate na forumo? Ajde, nazad na Skopjenistan!
Ajde mrsh!
Kostas -Macedonec od glaa do peti
from IP address 195.74.237.200
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Re: Response to the filoskopianoi Nikos-Feniks-Goran
by Anonymous (no login)http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138276841/Is+The+Forum+Owners+Name++Sideris...---
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138222166/Goran+is+a+MACEDONIAN%21
Sho gluposti se ovie be!!! Sram na tebe fyro-zombies!!!
jas sum Macedonec od Kastoria.Feniks, povekje Macedonec sum od tebe. Jas ziveem i rabotam tuka vo
Makedonija (vo Grcija, ako site znaat deka: Makedonija=Grcija) ama ti
kaj si i kaj ziveesh i rabotish?
Zoshto be ne sakate i vie da
bidete Grcite? I sho barate na forumo? Ajde, nazad na Skopjenistan!
Ajde mrsh!
Kostas -Macedonec od glaa do peti
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Da Ti Go Ebam Plemeto Tursko
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)'Kostas' = 'Istor' = 'iPontus'
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I think you confuse names & persons here...
by Nikos (no login)BYE!
Nikos
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Nikos, if Greeks do not have any Human Rights protection
by s (no login)from IP address 138.217.124.111
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Of course they have. (A tip from me: don't jump that easily at the bandwagon...)
by Nikos (no login)Nikos
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Skopjeans stick together. Greeks are fighting each other.
by Pericles (no login)from IP address 212.152.28.115
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Stefane
by Kostas (no login)I insist that any Greek who uses the term Macedonian in such a way is an ignorant.Nikos is a traitor of the cause declared in this website, because he insists on using the name "macedonian" the way he does with Goran and then tries to develop (a rather unsuccessful) argumentation to persuade others of Goran's "macedonianess".Είναι εντελώς ανάλγητος σε ζητήματα που αφορούν την εθνική ακεραιότητα της χώρας μου και από ο,τι είπα για αυτόν δεν παίρνω πίσω ούτε λέξη.Αυτός είναι ο πρώτος που εξαπέλυσε προσωπικούς χαρακτηρισμούς.Όχι εγώ.
θυμάμαι πάρα πολύ καλά ότι είχατε πέσει να φάτε ζωντανό εκείνον τον ανήλικο Σέρβο πριν μερικά χρόνια επειδή αποκαλούσε τους Σκοπιανούς "μακεδόνες".
Μέχρι και την πολιτική Μιλόσεβιτς του είχατε χρεώσει! και τώρα θα μου πεις ότι πρέπει να αποδεχτώ τις μειοδοτικές θέσεις του Νίκου αδιαμαρτύρητα?Τουλάχιστον ας ήταν συνεπής με όσα πιστεύει και ας μην διαμαρτυρόταν που του "έκλεψαν το όνομα Νίκος"
Αυτό του επεσήμανα και με έβρισε.Αν είχε αποδεχτεί τον όρο "Σλαβομακεδόνας" ή τον σλαβικό όρο "Makedonci" που χρησιμοποιούν στη γλώσσα αυτή (όχι όμως τον όρο Macedonian που είναι πολύ ευρύτερος), κατ 'οικονομίαν και για ορισμένες περιπτώσεις φίλων που σέβονταν την ιστορική αλήθεια, τότε θα ήμουν πολύ περισσότερο διαλλακτικός απέναντί του.Προσωπικά τον όρο Makedonci ton χρησιμοποίησα σε μία μόνο περίπτωση, εν μέρει ελληνικής καταγωγής φίλων από Μοναστήρι.
Περί υπερ-πατριωτών ΝΑΖΙ τώρα.....Μήπως θα θέλατε να συζητήσουμε για την στάση των διεθνιστών "συντρόφων" όταν υπεγράφη το σύμφωνο Ρίμπεντροπ μεταξύ Σοβιετικών και ΝΑΖΙ????
Προδότες υπήρξαν από όλες τις πολιτικές παρατάξεις, με μία βασική διαφορά.ΔΕΝ ΕΔΡΑΣΑΝ ΟΛΟΙ ΕΝΟΠΛΩΣ ΚΑΙ ΑΠΟΣΧΙΣΤΙΚΑ.Κάποιοι από τη μία παράταξη έδειξαν συγκατάβαση προς τις κατοχικές δυνάμεις επειδή πίστεψαν ότι έτσι θα γλιτώσουν τη χώρα από τον ακρωτηριασμό και την πλήρη σύντριβη.Άλλοι ως γνήσιοι πατριδοκάπηλοι είδαν την κατάλληλη ευκαιρία για να ανέλθουν κοινωνικά και οικονομικά -έστω και αν αυτό σήμαινε ακρωτηριασμ΄΄ο της χώρας.
Οι χειρότεροι όμως όλων ήταν εκείνοι που φόρεσαν τον μανδύα του διεθνιστή και προπαγάνδισαν τη δημιουργία ενός αυτόνομου μακεδονικού έθνους για "ανθρωπιστικούς" λόγους και για χάρη της δικαιοσύνης.
Θέλετε ένα μικρό δείγμα?
".... «Το ΚΚΕ από το 1918 έως το 1926» (Άθ. 1947, σελ. 343-345).
Ανεξαρτησία στη Μακεδονία και στη Θράκη : Ή ντόπια κεφαλαιοκρατία... καταπιέζει τις εθνικές μειονότητες στη Μακεδονία και ατή Θράκη... ή ελληνική πλουτοκρατία καταδυναστεύει ένα μέρος του μακεδόνικου και θρακικού λαού, κρατώντας με το σίδερο και τη φωτιά τη μακεδόνικη και θρακική χώρα στην υποταγή της. Δίχως την καταπίεση του μακεδόνικου και θρακικού λαού, δίχως την καταπίεση των ξένων εθνών, της είναι αδύνατο να δυναμώσει επάνω μας τον κοινωνικό της ζυγό. Ή ντόπια μπουρζουαζία είναι εθνικός δυνάστης και καταπιεστής του μακεδόνικου και θρακικού λαού και συγχρόνως ο κοινωνικός δυνάστης της εργατικής τάξεως και των φτωχών αγροτικών και προσφυγικών μαζών. Αν δεν συντρίψουμε τον εθνικό ζυγό της ντόπιας μπουρζουαζίας πού βαρύνει στη Μακεδονία και στη Θράκη, δεν μπορούμε να τσακίσουμε τον κοινωνικό ζυγό της ίδιας μπουρζουαζίας πού βαρύνει επάνω σε μας. Δεν μπορούμε αλλιώτικα να γλιτώσουμε από τους κατακτητικούς και ιμπεριαλιστικούς πολέμους πού ξεσπούν εις βάρος μας εν όσο εξακολουθεί ή σημερινή κατάσταση του διαμελισμού και της καταπιέσεως της Μακεδονίας και Θράκης από τη Βαλκανική και Τουρκική μπουρζουαζία.
Να γιατί αγωνιζόμαστε εναντίον των εξοπλισμών, εναντίον των πολέμων πού προετοιμάζει ή κεφαλαιοκρατία, εναντίον της εθνικής καταπιέσεως και του βίαιου εκπατρισμού. Να γιατί αγωνιζόμαστε για την ένωση των τριών τμημάτων της Μακεδονίας και Θράκης και για ενιαία και ανεξάρτητη κρατική τους ύπαρξη..
Ζήτω η εργατοαγροτική επανάσταση της Βουλγαρίας!
Ζήτω ή ανεξάρτητη Μακεδονία και Θράκη!
Ζήτω η "Ομοσπονδία των Βαλκανικών εργατοαγροτικών δημοκρατιών!
Ζήτω η Παγκόσμιος Προλεταριακή επανάσταση.
Αθήναι 3 Δεκεμβρίου 1924 Το Προεδρείο»
-------------------------------------------
Ό Γραμματεύς του τρίτου εκτάκτου συνεδρίου του ΚΚΕ, Π. Πουλιόπουλος, σε ενυπογραφο άρθρο του στον «Ρίζοσπάστη» (14 Δεκ. 1924) με τίτλο: «Το Μακεδόνικο ηφαίστειο» γράφει:
«Οι Μακεδόνες εργάτες και χωρικοί, αδιακρίτως καταγωγής, κάτω από το ζυγό της Βαλκανικής μπουρζουαζίας που τους μοιράστηκε, παρ' όλες τις προσπάθειες των διαφόρων εθνικιστικών προπαγανδών, εξακολουθούν να συνδέονται μεταξύ τους με κοινή συνείδηση.
Ποθούνε και αγωνίζονται να ξαναενώσουν τα τρία τμήματα της διαμελισμένης των πατρίδος και ν' αποχτήσουν ενιαία και κρατική ανεξάρτητη ύπαρξη. Το ίδιο συμβαίνει και με το Θρακικό λαό , ο οποίος είναι διαμοιρασμένος από την Τουρκική, Βουλγαρική και Ελληνική μπουρζουαζία. Ό απελευθερωτικός αγώνας των καταπιεζομένων λαών της Μακεδονίας και Θράκης, είναι αγώνας κατά του ιμπεριαλισμού και της υποτελούς του Βαλκανικής μπουρζουαζίας».
----------------------------------------------------
Στη «Κομμουνιστική Επιθεώρηση» (1 Μαρτίου 1947, σελ. 305-306) διαβάζουμε ότι ο Μακεδόνικος λαός «στέναξε κάτω από τόσους ζυγούς σκλαβιάς» όπως ήταν «οι Έλληνες κομιτατζήδες οπλαρχηγοί Παυλομελάδες και καπετάν Βαρδαΐοι, Τσόντοι και Γαρέφηδες του έσφιγγαν την θηλειά στο λαιμό» !
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Αυτά τα λίγα περί πατριδοκάπηλων "υπερ-πατριωτών" και ξεπουλημένων, "διεθνιστών" δημαγωγών.Οι πρώτοι δικαίως στιγματίστηκαν, οι δεύτεροι χρίστηκαν ήρωες.....Τελικά ότι δεν πέτυχαν οι "σύντοφοι" θα το πετύχουν τώρα οι "προοδευτικοί" όπως εσύ και ο "φίλος' Νίκος.
Κάνετε τη χάρη στους εαυτούς σας και προτείνετε την κατάργηση αυτού του forum.Το ζήτημα του ονόματος και της σκοπιανής προπαγάνδας το ξεπουλήσατε.το forum αυτό δεν έχει λόγο ύπαρξης πλέον.Πηγαίνετε να φτιάξετε ένα άλλο. Σας προτείνω τον τίτλο "ΦΟΡΟΥΜ ελληνο-μακεδονικής φιλίας".
Να δεις τότε πώς θα σας αγαπήσει ο Γκόραν και ο Peter.Μέχρι και ο Pelister ίσως σας συμπαθήσει κάπως!
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SIGA MHPWS O BUSH DIAVAZE AUTO TO FORUM!OTAN ANAGNWRISE THN FYROM W'S MAKEDONIA!
by H (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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MACEDONIAN compared to English, Kalashi, Khowar, Nuristani, Hindi-Urdu and Pashtu
by mkont (no login)hmmmmm...........Macedonian looks like a 'connecting' language between indo and english
English Kalasha Khowar Nuristani Hindi-Urdu Pashtu
MACEDONIAN
body Che qalip jith jism badan
TELO
head shish kapal she sar sar
GLAVA
hair chawar phur zhu bal wextu
KOSA
face ru mox naskor chehra max
LICHEH (MOUCHKA = MOUTH/KISSER)
eye ech ghech ache akh starga
OKO (plural OCHI)
ear ka kar kor ekkan ghwag
EUCHI plural
nose nast neskar naso nak poza
NOZ
mouth ashi apak ashi muh zolu
OUSTA
tooth dandorik don duth ekdat ghax
ZAB
tounge jiph ligini dits zaban jiba
YASIK (ZAB = tooth)
breast chuchu pap chuk chati sina
TITSKA
belly kuch shkama kutal pet xeta
STOMAK
arm/hand baza bazu gotar bazu las
RAMA
elbow harkin kurkun apti kohni sangal
palm pe phan dushpar hatheli tale
finger agu chamut ayu ungli gota
PIRST
fingernail nanguzhek dughur nachi naxun nukh
leg khur dek zapo tan xpaq
NOGA
skin post phost chum jidl sarman
KOZHA
bone athi kol ati hadi aduke
KOSKA (KOLINO = knee)
heart hia hardi ziri dil zaru
SERCHEH
blood lui lei lui xun wina
KERF
urine mutra miru tsuio peshab mutiaze
MOCH
feces rich rich gii puxana dake-mutiaze
LINA; LEPESKA; GHOMNO
village grom deh grom gau kale
SELO
house dur dur amu ghar kor
KOUIKA (DOMA = home)
roof drami istan krum chat chath
CHATAR = umbrella
door dur dowaht du darwaza war
VRATA
firewood shula dar da lakri largi
broom shashkoni mazhini ska jharu jaru
METLA
mortar dipa andor aru langri langarei
GIPS
pestle muso musul wo hathi chetu
hammer balka chota budil hathera satak
CHEKAN
knife chaku chaku chaku chaqu chaku
NOJZE
axe badok bardox wuza kulhara tabar
SEKIRA
rope rajuk shimeni mina rasi pare
thread sutr sutur pchiche dhaga tar
KHONETS
needle suzhik shunj chimchich sui stan
IGLA
cloth chelegar zap pizisna kapra kapra
KERPA
ring angushtyer pulungushtu angishti anguthi gota
PIRSTEN (see finger above)
sun suri yor su suraj nwar
SONCE
moon mastruk mas mos chand spogmai
MESECHINA
sky di asman asma asman asman
star tari istari rushto sitara store
rain piliwe boshik agol baris baran
DOGSCH; VERNI = raining
water ukh ugh o pani ubu
VODA
river patisholi sin nao darya sind
REKA
cloud minji kot naru badal waryaz
NEBLI
lighting indochik bilpak dashpulsela bijili prakigi
rainbow indru dronhanu indro quzah tal
wind sira gan dimi hawa hawa
VETAR
stone bath boht wat pathar kane
KAMEN
path pon pon puth rasta lar
PAAT
sand shigo shughur tsuyu ret shaga
PAISOK
fire angar angar ango ag our
OGAN
smoke thum kushun dyum dhua luge
CHAD (DHUMI = to blow smoke; DUMEN = dingy; TEMNO = dark; faint)
ash shutik pheru asi rakh ira
mud tuk toq shur kichar xata
KAL
dust khatur gihth paras miti gard
gold sue sorum sun sona zar
ZLATNO
tree muth kan kanu daraxt wana
DERVO
leaf pu chan pur pata pana
LISYA
root iznos iwak lu jhar jarare
KORA
thorn chuk zux tai kata azghe
flower gamburi gamburi pish phul gwal
CVEYKEH
fruit mewa mewa miwa phal mewa
FRUITA
mango am am am am am
banana kela kela kila kela kela
wheat ghum gom gum gehu ghanam
GHOMNO = feces - see above
millet ain gras ro bajra warbashi
rice grinzh grinj mo chawal wrije
ORICE
potato alu alu aluk alu alu
eggplant khalia patigan banjon baenan tor-batingar
groundnut bum-pali mum-phali mom-phali mun-phali mumpali
chili mach mahch murch mirch marchake
turmeric zechawa zehchawa zarchawa haldi kurkaman
garlic weshnu wrezhnu wezhnu lehsan uga
onion kachenduk trashtu cheknuk piaz piaz
KROMIT
cauliflower gobi gobi gulpi gobi gobi
tomato patingel patingel patingal tamatar sur-batingar
PATLIJANI; DOMATI
oil tel tel til tel tel
MASLO
salt lu trup zhukh namak malga
SOL
meat mos phushur bete gosht ghwaxa
MESO
fat me ghap ske cherbi wazda
DEBELO
fish matsi matsi omatsa machli kab
RIBA
chicken kakawak kahak kok murghi charga
KOKKOSCKA
egg ayukun ayukun puduk anda hu
YAYCHEH
cow gakh leshu go gae ghwa
CRAVA (VOL = bull)
buffalo gamesh gamesh mashigo bhes mexa
milk chhir chhir zu dudh pe
MLEKO (CERENEH = cheese)
horns shin surung shin sing xkar
tail dameri rum demee dum lake
OPASHKA
goat pai pai washi bakri biza
KOZA
dog shua reni kui kuta spe
KUCHEH
snake gokh ai bibimsta saap mar
ZMEIJYA
monkey meka mukul maka bandar bizo
MAIMUN
mosquito trakmangash kagunu tarak machar mashe
ant pililak pilili ramikh chiuti mege
spider upalak shubinak parkemuk makri jola
PAIJAK
name nom nam nom nam num
EMEH
man much mosh manshi admi sare
MASCH
woman istizha kimeri jukur urat xaza
ZHENA
child suda tsiq pirmi bacha mashum
DECHA; DETI
father dada tat to bap plar
TATKO
mother aya nan nu ma mor
MAYKA
brother baya brar bro bhai ror
BROTHER
sister baba ispisar sus bahen xor
SISTRA (BABA = grandmother)
son putr zhao pitr beta zwe
SEEN
daughter chu zhur jukh beti lur
KEYRKA
husband beru mosh mach shohar xawand
MASH
wife ja bok shtiri bivi xaza
ZHENA
boy purushguek daq midi larka halak
DETEH
girl shtrizhaguek kumoru jukh larki jine
CHOUPEH
day bas anus gijur din wraz
DEN
night rat chhui radur rat shpa
NOICHYA
morning adua chhuchhi puchkul subah sahar
SABAYLEH
noon hulukuna granish grish dopaher gharma
afternoon chakdiwio sham shom sham maxam
yesterday dosh dosh dus kal parun
FCHERA (DOSH = to come back!; rain)
today oja hanun shirakgijur aj nan
DENES
tomorrow chopo pengachui dalke ainda-kal saba
UTREH (SABEYLEHLETO = "tomorrow morning"!)
week sat-bas hafta agar hafta hafta
NEDELA (NEDELA also = Sunday)
month mastruk mas mos mihana miasht
MESECH
year kao sal si sal kal
GODINA
old shumberan paranu syuma purana zor
STAR(O)
new noa nogh nui nea nawe
NOVA
good prusht jam lasta acha xu
DOBRO; AREN
bad shum shum digar xarab xarab
LOSHO
wet grila zah zheli bhiga lund
VODENO
dry shushta ChuChhu drisht xushk wach
ISUCHENO
long driga drung darga lamba ugud
DOLGO
short betsak iskurdi moti chota lund
NISK
hot tapala pech pech garam tod
TOPLO; PECHI; GORI
cold osh ushak yuz thanda yax
STUDENO; MRAZ = icy
right drach hoski dachin dae xe
TOCHNO = correct; DESNO = right-hand; PRAVO = correct
left kawri kholi ka bae gas
LEVO
near shoiuna shoi tevire qarib nizde
BLIZU
far desha duderi badyur dur lare
DALEKU
big gada Lot alr bara ghat
GOLEMO; MNOGU
small chutyak tsiq parmi chota warkote
MAL; NISKO = short
heavy anguraka qai gamwo bhari drund
TESHKO; MNOGU = a lot
light lots lots luka halka spak
LESNO = light load
above tara sora ula upar uchat
OD GORA
below nuna mula viri niche lande
POHT
white goirak shpiru kashir sufed spin
BELO
black krizhna sha zhi kala tor
CHERNO (KALESHO = dark)
red lachia krui za lal sur
CHERVENO (compare 'krui' here and 'krizhna' above and compae 'cher' in Macedonian)
one ek i ew ek yao
EDEN; EDNO (SAMO = alone; only)
two du ju dui do dwa
three tre troi tere tin dre
four chao Chor shtewo char salor
five poin poch puch pach pinza
six sho Chhoi shu che shpag
seven sat sot suth sat uwe
eight asht usht ushth ath atu
nine no niu nu nao naha
ten dash jush duts das las
eleven dashyega sushi yanits gyara yaolas
twelve dashyedua johju dits bara dolas
twenty bishi bishir vatsi bis shal
one-hundred shor shor putsi ekso sal
who kura ka katsi kun sok
KOI
what kia kiagh kai kya su
SHO
where kawa kura kor kidhar charta
KADEH
when kayo kiawaht koi kab kala
KOGA
how-many kimon kanduri chuk kitne somra
KOIKU
which kure kiwali gajista kensa kam
KOIYEH
this ia haya eni ye da
OVO
that se hes iki wo agha
THO
these emi hamit amni ye da
OVEIYEH
those eli het amki wo agha
ONEIYEH
same barubar barabar erngest ekhi yaoshan
EISTO; LICHNO
whole taza pura pura mukamal rogh
CHIELO
broken chhina Chhirdu patingusti tuta mat
SCKRCHENO
few chutyak kam echok thora lag
MALU
many bo bo baluk ziada der
MNOGU
all sao saf tsak sab tol
SEITEH
eat zhuk zhibik yu tumkhao xoral
YADI
bite ashato oyoi atushio katna chichal
KIUSNI; KASNI (late = KASNO)
hungry anora Chuyi io bhukh lagna
GLADEN
drink pi pik pi pina skal
PI
thirsty dan trush opi lagna kedal
sleep dudi oreik prush sona udakedal
SPEE
lay drekda porik chi letna samlastal
LEGHI
lie = LAIGHI - MK (to tell a fib)
lie down = LEGHI; LEGNI
sit nas nishik nis baethna kenastal
SEDNI
give pra dik pre dena warkawal
DADI
burn upweik paleik lush jalana talargi
GORI (PALI = to light)
die anashi brik misi marna mrakedal
UMRI
kill nash mareik jai marna wajal
OPERI; KOLI = to cull
fly upul ulik undr urna alwatal
LETA
walk! kasi kosik esti chalna paidalarsha
BARIH; PESHKI; PATI (KASNO = LATE; running late etc)
run adyae deik achu durna mandawahal
TERCHI
go par bik etu jana talal
ODI (walk = BARIH)
come a gik hatsi ana ratlal
DOYDI
speak ama ludik wila bolna wayal
SBORI;
heard sanga kara singa suna awredal
SLUSHNA
see pashi poshik waa dekhna katal
PULI; VIDI
I a awa uts mae zu
YAS
you tu tu twi tum tu
TI
you-(formal) tu tu twi ap taso
TI
he/she asa hes iki vo hagha
we abi spa imu ham munga
you-(plural) abi pisa sho tum taso
they eli het amki vo haghwi
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The populatio
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians"
from IP address 212.183.55.122
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One final response to "Nikos"
by Anonymous (no login)http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138228695/I+challenge+Greeks+here+to+take+a+stand+against+the+traitor
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138235057/Re-+Hey+DUMB+human+you-+-+READ-
Συνέχισε να πιστεύεις ότι τα Σκόπια kai to Γκόστιβαρ είναι στη 'μακεδονία του Αιγαίου' και θα τα πας πολύ καλά με τον Goran....Άριστα!
Any "Greek" who calls this salad of unidentified ethnicities as "Macedonians",thus SPITTING IN THE FACE OF HIS MACEDONIAN COMPATRIOTS, is simply IGNORANT and ILLITERATE.
(I 'm greatful to the other "nikos" who used your name in such a way.You tasted a small pinch of the insult,the anger, the injustice which every real, self-aware macedonian experiences every day of his life).
Furthermore, if this "Greek" appears in a forum under the title "Makedonia: 4000 years of Greek civilization and Culture" to propagate the myth of Macedonian nation with a slavic character and a Macedonian language, using classical Skopian arguments and propaganda, then this "Greek" is simply a TRAITOR.
NO "BUTS", NO "IFS".
If the individual in question takes one step further ahead and starts boasting for his autonomist uncle, while the Skopians are clapping chearfully,saying that he's trying to trace his non-greek roots in "Kostur", then this person suffers from a very serious identity crisis.Such persons were called APOSTATES in Macedonia and have been well described in Yannas testimony:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138148046/Nikolaki%2BGoran%2C+who+inspires+you+the+most-
Cases like the one above, regarding ignorant American,Canadian,(German) citizens of unidentified national identity, lured by "nice" Yugo-Skopian "friends" I have seen many times in the past.
Dear Nikos, I have absolutely NO REMORSE for calling you a TRAITOR (after all, you were the first who started swearing NOT ME).
That's not because of your friends, but because of your politically anti-greek views.And a Greek,using the term "macedonian" in a non-greek context over 9 out of 10 cases in his everyday life or in a Greek forum against skopian propaganda expresses a crystal clear political view....that's politics of the worst kind.
Do yourself a favor and leave this forum.Go to some skopian site to prove your friends' "macedonianness".
Shame on you for your insult against my country.
Είσαι απλά ασυγχώρητος!
from IP address 212.54.216.193
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At 800BC Homer never Call you Hellenes, 499 BC the name was YAUNA,at the middle Ages the
by ITALIANS CALL YOU GRAECI (no login)The Greeks of the epics didn't describe themselves as Greeks (Hellenes), but as Achaeans, Danaans, etc.
"Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name .... The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name, nor indeed any of them
except the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes: in his poems they are called Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans"
- Thucydides
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships
The Yaunβ in Asia Minor revolted in 499, but they were subjected again. Now, it was clear to the Persian government that the possessions in Asia Minor could be safe only when the Yaunβ in the west were subjected as well.
Two years later, king Darius sent a new expedition to the west. The commanders were Datis and Artaphernes. Herodotus presents the expedition as a punitive action against Eretria and Athens, who had helped the Ionians during their revolt of 499.
The modern English word Greek is derived from Latin Graecus, which in turn comes from Greek Γραικός (Graikos), the name of a Boeotian tribe that migrated to Italy in the 8th century BC, and it is by that name the Hellenes were known in the West. Homer, while reciting the Boeotian forces in the Iliad's Catalogue of Ships, provides the first known reference to a Boeotian city named Graea,[24] and Pausanias mentions that Graea was the name of the ancient city of Tanagra.[25] Cumae, a city lying to the west of Neapolis (now Naples) and south of Rome, was founded by Cymaeans and Chalkideans as well as Graeans who by coming into contact with Romans may very well be responsible for naming all Hellenic speaking tribes Graeci. The modern Italian city of Grai was also founded in antiquity by Graeans.
The concept of Hellene for a person of Greek origin was already well established since the late Middle Ages, but for the majority of the population, especially those in rural areas away from urban centers, the dominant perception was still that of a Roman, a descendant of the Byzantine Empire. Scholar Rigas Feraios called "Bulgars and Arvanites, Armenians and Romans" to rise in arms against the Ottomans.[57] General Makrygiannis recalled a friend asking him: "What say you, is the Roman far away from coming? Are we to sleep with the Turks and awaken with the Romans?"[58]
Greek (Γραικός) was the least popular of the three terms, but interestingly enough received by scholars disproportionately larger attention compared to its popular use. Adamantios Korais, a renowned Greek classicist, justified his preference in A Dialogue between Two Greeks: "Our ancestors used to call themselves Greeks
from IP address 72.140.251.131
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He is a realist..not a TRAITOR.
by TPP (no login)from IP address 58.105.43.136
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha !!
by (Login istor)Hahahahahahahahahaha!!
What is Macedonian on you bre IDIOT ???
You are unable and ashamed to use ANY Macedonian toponyms, tikvar! How dare you to call yourself Macedonian? Are you an unindendified CLOWN ??
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Nikos Is More Greek Than You Ever Will Be...
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)from IP address 144.131.20.186
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And your words prove it !!
by (Login istor) Aeinaminanoixwtovrwmostomamou !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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You are a shizophren maniac....
by Nikos (no login)NO "BUTS", NO "IFS".
If the individual in question takes one step further ahead and starts boasting for his autonomist uncle, while the Skopians are clapping chearfully,saying that he's trying to trace his non-greek roots in "Kostur", then this person suffers from a very serious identity crisis.Such persons were called APOSTATES in Macedonia and have been well described in Yannas testimony:
--->YOU TWIST THINGS BECAUSE SEVERAL POINTS OF YOUR TEXT ABOVE ARE SIMPLY FALSE. F-A-L-S-E. I HAVE NO UNCLE IN "KORITSA". I DON'T USE "SKOPIAN" ARGUMENTS AND SO ON (PROOVE IT WHERE I USE IT) AND SO ON.
THUS YOU ARE SPITTING AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN BECAUSE YOU ARE B-E-L-I-E-V-I-N-G F-A-L-S-E THINGS.
SH_T THE F_CK UP NOW.
from IP address 84.59.29.100
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GR-NEWS: Crete arrests linked to illegal adoption ring - Two Bulgarian womens:
by Nikos (no login)http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100020_26/01/2006_65621
Two Bulgarian women — a mother and her daughter — were yesterday charged by a prosecutor in Crete of being involved in an illegal child adoption ring, court sources said.
The women, aged 48 and 25, were arrested in Iraklion on Tuesday on suspicion of being linked to a ring that brings pregnant young Bulgarian women to Greece a few weeks before their due dates. Police said the women are taken to a state hospital to deliver and the ringmasters then put the baby up for adoption. The children are illegally sold to childless couples, officers said.
The 25-year-old woman had recently given birth and was charged with attempting to illegally give up the child for adoption, which is a criminal offense. Her mother was charged with the same crime but was also accused of attempting to profit from the offense.
from IP address 84.59.40.136
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Gypsies, not Bulgarians
by Boris I (no login)nothing new from that scum, hope the gaschambers will start burning again
from IP address 84.162.111.114
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What's the difference?...
by Komita (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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you are the difference :)
by Komitopul (no login)ps.
Mrsh ma makja si u mirizlivata pichka lajno nepismeno
from IP address 129.10.72.241
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Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The populatio
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians"
from IP address 212.183.55.122
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Nazi scum!
by Waingro (no login)from IP address 66.106.241.14
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SYN ATHINA KAI XEIRAN KINEI-etsi theloun oi skopianoi!10 Xronia mas koroideboun!
by MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT BULGARISM (no login)from IP address 212.183.55.122
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Stefanos and Nikos: Get off this forum. Now pls.
by Periklis (no login)from IP address 84.60.150.74
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Hey Periklis...
by Nikos (no login)from IP address 84.59.40.136
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hahahahahaaaaaaaaaarrrr har har har n/t
by Nikos (no login)from IP address 84.59.40.136
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You stop using the nickname "Periklis"
by "DAI" (no login)Meta na pas na xatheis apo edo... O Nikos kai o Stefanos einai apo tous pio palious edo mesa kai pio eksupnous.
To forum then eivai PROPAGANDISTIKO opos les parakatw. (gia Greekness of Macedonia) alla gia tin Truth (Alitheia)...
Kai n alithia eivai kati pou dev 8a prepei va mas fobizei katalabes?
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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Hou Hou Hou Houhouli. Geisou re Petro - merakli!
by Periklis (no login)from IP address 84.60.162.95
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O skopianos stratos (3 atoma) vazei skata sto prosopo kai kryvete.
by Periklis (no login)from IP address 84.60.162.95
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(http://maknews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10 ) PERIKLI KE ISTOR. RIKSTE MIA MATIA.
by loxias (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Skopian Skum
by Periklis (no login)from IP address 84.60.189.46
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Oi Skopianoi trone skata me rigani, etsi exo akousei.
by Periklis (no login)Skopian Skum.
from IP address 84.60.189.46
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ISOS TO PERNOUNE GIA KOKORETSI!
by SKOPSKATA (no login)from IP address 212.183.62.59
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DEN APOKLIETE. EDO OLI TOUS FTIMOUNE KE AFTI NOMIZOUNE OTI VREXI. hahahahaha
by loxias (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Alithia eh?
by "DAI" (no login)Oute sto Demotiko den lene pleon tetoies mpourdes gia na prosballoun kapoion alla fainetai merikoi oute Dnmotiko dev exouv paei..
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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A note on the dividing lines in this forum.
by (no login)One thing for sure, I believe that the volume of responses from each side does dot determine the better side, but the overall quality of posts and the volume of the quality posts does.
Any independent observer who visits this forum would inevitably conclude that if one side is trying to have a valid discussion, and the other is spamming incestantly, then the second side is simply lacking of valid answers and thus it is trying to silence the first side. The situation is even worse if there are some folks from the the second side agree with some points presented from the first side, and then some other folks from the second side are trying to intimidate both those dissents from their side, with spamming.
If any of you wants to have respect, and not to get insulted on an everyday basis, by the majority of the members of this forum, you'd better try to communicate in a civilized manner. Either you like it or not, the major dividing line in this forum is not one nationality against another, but those who can post intelligent posts against those who cannot. All other divisions come in second place.
Alright?
from IP address 12.43.115.213
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however. i am not the one who claims others land and heritage.therefor i reserve for my
by loxias (no login)means.
Loxias The Makedonian
from IP address 213.84.59.197
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There are many ways to defend your country..
by "DAI" (no login)What is spamming? Who is spamming? He who has no arguments or is not right about something.. By spamming and offending you show that we (Greeks) do not have arguments and therefore we need to offend etc to "make our point"..
You are no better than Foenix..Peder.
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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The soldiers' duty is to guard his country, not to insult his enemies. (right Fenix?)
by (no login)When I asked Fenix if he considers me a Xenophobic person, long time ago, he didn't respond, and I won't respond to him either. There is no reason after all. I called him a bastard, I cited a reason for that (He has been whining that the Albanians are ungrateful animals for a long time) and he won't dear to throw anything back at me at this phase.
You see, unlike you, I am capable of bringing them down, when I can support my thesis with substantial evidence...
from IP address 64.110.51.254
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You forgot to add:
by "DAI" (no login)"Fenix responded to the Classicist with some irrelevant comments"
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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Petros you make some fine points , but LOXIAS IS ALO CORRECT WHAT THE SKOPES ARE DOING IS
by etan e epitas (no login)monon lave etan e epitas
from IP address 64.12.116.68
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You are right, but you don't pay attention to their grievances.
by (no login)On the other hand, during the Middle Ages, the Slavs invaded and exterminated a large portion of the Macedonian population. Although this is not something that we should forget, and they don't even ask us for forgiveness, one cannot deny that those people were living in Macedonia for a very long time, almost one and a half thousand years. Many of these were kicked out from Greece violently. Many died, although did not happen in a planned way, but mostly during the Balkan wars and the WWI. They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?
from IP address 64.110.51.254
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ARE YOU APOLOGISING TO AN INVADOR! EIMASTE ME TA KALAMAS!
by L (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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`They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?``PETRO KAPOU KAPOU TA MPERDEVIS LIGO.
by loxias (no login)ESI KE O ISTOR ME OLA TA ATRANTAKTA EPIXIRIMATA SAS TI NOMIZIS OTI KATAFERATE;;
I SLVOBOULGAROI VOVOUNTE KE SEVONDE MONO AFTON POU EXI DINAMI KE DEN ASTIEVETE. P.X : VASSILIOS BOULGAROKTONOS TOTE, TO NATO SIMERA.
14 XRONIA SINOMILIES ( TALK FOR THE TALK ) TI APOTELESMA EXOUNE?
OTAN TOUS ANAGNORISANE I AMERIKANI ( EAN I EL. KIVERNISI IXE PI OTI INE EX8RIKI ENERGIA APO SIMAXO XORA, KE IXE ANASTILI TIN LITOURGIA TIS SOUDAS ),
8A STELNAME ENA MINIMA SE OLOUS EX8ROUS KE FILOUS, OTI KAMIA LOUGRA DEN MPORI NA PEKSI ME TA E8NIKA MAS SIMFERONTA. OMOS.... TIN SINEXIA TI KSERIS.
GIA AFTO FILETO KALITERO INE: SI VI PACEM PARABELLUM.
FILIKA
LOXIAS.
from IP address 213.84.59.197
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`They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?``PETRO KAPOU KAPOU TA MPERDEVIS LIGO.
by loxias (no login)ESI KE O ISTOR ME OLA TA ATRANTAKTA EPIXIRIMATA SAS TI NOMIZIS OTI KATAFERATE;;
I SLVOBOULGAROI VOVOUNTE KE SEVONDE MONO AFTON POU EXI DINAMI KE DEN ASTIEVETE. P.X : VASSILIOS BOULGAROKTONOS TOTE, TO NATO SIMERA.
14 XRONIA SINOMILIES ( TALK FOR THE TALK ) TI APOTELESMA EXOUNE?
OTAN TOUS ANAGNORISANE I AMERIKANI ( EAN I EL. KIVERNISI IXE PI OTI INE EX8RIKI ENERGIA APO SIMAXO XORA, KE IXE ANASTILI TIN LITOURGIA TIS SOUDAS ),
8A STELNAME ENA MINIMA SE OLOUS EX8ROUS KE FILOUS, OTI KAMIA LOUGRA DEN MPORI NA PEKSI ME TA E8NIKA MAS SIMFERONTA. OMOS.... TIN SINEXIA TI KSERIS.
GIA AFTO FILETO KALITERO INE: SI VI PACEM PARABELLUM.
FILIKA
LOXIAS.
from IP address 213.84.59.197
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VARDASKA BANANOVINA IS ONLY 21% MAKEDONIAN SOIL... REST IS ALBANIA. WE WANT THE 21% BACK
by loxias (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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IF GRECCE DECLARES WAR ON SKOPJE, GREEKS WIIL BE UNITED IN THE DESTRUCTION
by ETAN E EPITAS (no login)MONON LAVE ETAN EPITAS BURN AND BURY SKOPTHIA
from IP address 64.12.116.68
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WHAT WAR! ONE RAID!BY JUST ONE F16! IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DO THE JOB!
by H (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Feniks Khangaroovski...
by Boris I (no login)your whole "national" ideology is about sucking Greek and Serbian diecks.
GO AND KILL YOURSELF FYROMIAN MONKEY
from IP address 84.162.77.207
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Skopian Skum. DO you agree Boris?
by Periklis (no login)from IP address 84.60.162.95
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Don't side with the devil n/t
by Nikos (no login)from IP address 84.59.40.136
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Bravo!!!!
by "DAI" (no login)Bulgarospore ki esu...
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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E OXI KAI KYRIOS ESY BUSKOFSKI!SAS MATHAME TORA TI EISASTE!.....
by REPUBLIKA YUGOBULGARIA (no login)Β.ΜΠΟΥΤΣΚΟΦΣΚΙ: "ΔΕΝ ΥΠΑΡΧΕΙ ΜΥΣΤΙΚΗ ΔΙΠΛΩΜΑΤΙΑ ΓΙΑ ΤΟ ΟΝΟΜΑ ΤΗΣ ΠΓΔΜ"
Σύμφωνα με τηλεγράφημα του ειδησεογραφικού Πρακτορείου ΜΙΑ των Σκοπίων, ο Πρωθυπουργός της ΠΓΔΜ, Βλάντο Μπούτσκοφσκι, σχετικά με δημοσίευμα της εφημερίδας "Ντνέβνικ" των Σκοπίων, που τον φέρει να έχει ασκήσει μυστική διπλωματία για το ζήτημα του ονόματος, μέσω συναντήσεων που πραγματοποίησε στη Φλώρινα με απεσταλμένους του Πρωθυπουργού της Ελλάδας κ. Κ. Καραμανλή, δήλωσε ότι:
''Πρόκειται για χονροειδή παραπληροφόρηση και δεν υπάρχει λόγος για μυστικές συνομιλίες για το ζήτημα του ονόματος. Επίσης, επειδή έχουμε εισέλθει και σε χρονιά εκλογών, υπάρχει ανεπίσημος κανόνας και μία[ συμφωνία κυρίων] να μην συζητούνται τέτοια θέματα τα οποία μπορούν να αποτελέσουν αντικείμενο πολιτικής εκμετάλλευσης".
E OXI KAI KYRIOS ESY BUSKOFSKI!SAS MATHAME TORA TI EISASTE!
DEN PISTEYO OI SKOPIANOI STON PROEKLOGIKO XRONO NA MHN PROSPATHOUN MPAS KAI TOUS ANAGNORISH KANENA KRATOS!
from IP address 212.183.62.38
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