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Welcome to the discussion forum of "The truth about Macedonia"
Here you can have discussions about Macedonia in particular and the Balkans in general.
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MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT YUGO-BULGARISM
by Thessaloniki,capital of Macedonia (no login)
from IP address 212.183.56.237
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1470 Gio Mario degli Angiolelo Greeks and Macedonians
by mkont (no login)August 8th, 1470. The Sultan stopped and spent the night
...in afield that represented the Macedonian border...The
River Vardar is nearby, which flows through Macedonia...of
which some are Greeks, others Macedonians, Wallachs and even
Italians, as well as other nations....Greeks and Macedonians
live there...
Gio Mario degli Angiolelo, A. Matkovski i P. Angelkova,
Nekolku kratki patopisi za Makedonija, Glasnik na INI, VXI/1
(1972), p. 246-247.
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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YOUR "Makedonija" is TITOKLONIJA
by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS-THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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WRITTEN BY BULGARS OFCOURSE! ZERO CREDIBILITY!
by . (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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How did those "Macedonians" call Thessaloniki??
by (Login istor)
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Russian Giant New WBA Champ
by mkont (no login)
HEAVY HITTER: Nikolay Valuev, left, defeated John Ruiz on a disputed decision for WBA heavyweight title in December.
(Martin Rose / Bongarts, Getty Images)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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SKOPIANS ARE YUGOSLAV BULGARS!-BULGAROSKATA
by REPUBLIKA PLASTOGRAFIJA (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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THERE GOES THEORY ABOUT THE ONLY HAIRY GREEKS! HE LOOKS LIKE THE PALEONTOLITHIC MAC!
by / (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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THERE GOES THEORY ABOUT THE ONLY HAIRY GREEKS! HE LOOKS LIKE THE PALEONTOLITHIC MAN!
by / (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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GLIGOROF>GLIGOROV:WE ARE SLAVS--->PSEUDOMACEDONIANS-->YUGOBULGARS!.
by SKOPIANS ARE YUGO-BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Misirkov Krste:WE ARE BULGARS!--->PSEUDOMACEDONIANS-->
by YUGO-BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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GOCE DELCEV:WE ARE BULGARS-->PSEUDOMACEDONIANS-->
by YUGO-BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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DAME GRUEV:WE ARE BULGARS!-->PSEUDOMACEDONIANS--->
by YUGO-BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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SANDANSKI:WE ARE BULGARS!--->PSEUDOMACEDONIANS--->
by YUGO-BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Bulgaria - Romania - Albania ... that will be fun
by Boris I (no login)Helladistan vs. Turkye ... LOL
from IP address 84.162.88.86
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GLIGOROF>GLIGOROV:WE ARE SLAVS--->PSEUDOMACEDONIANS-->YUGOBULGARS!
by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Peperki !
by "DAI" (no login)Get your story straight boy.. The bible is what it was.. the Book of Acts is very specific about the cities and the places that Apostle Paul visited.
So now the Russian Slavs are Macedonians too?!!! Are you kidding me now..
So learn that at the same time as the Russian Slavs were fighing the Germans some other "Slavs" in Northern Greece were greeting the Germans and the Bulgarian occupying forces as liberators, shouting Christos Voscrece, joining en masse the proBulgarian OHRANA (which was established by a Bulgarian lieutenant who was born in Kastoria) terrorizing the Greek in Macedonia. Those Bulgars in disguise later became SNOFites when they saw that the Germans wer losing...
These are well known facts that everyone knows.. save for some Canadians like you..
Don't get me started posting photos of your people and how they greeted the Bulgarians as liberators in 1941! If you insist I will do it!
Finally one question.. is your last name ending in off or ski?
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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Peperkism # 9: Macedonians had been evangelized 2 times!
by Pericles (no login)from IP address 83.180.65.249
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My last name?
by Peperki (no login)There is a term called "sweeping generalization". Look it up, try to understand it, and don't use it when speaking of Macedonians - because 99% of the time it will not be accurate.
from IP address 70.28.215.99
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MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT BULGARISM!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)http://www.museumshop.gr/products_173_gr.html (Thrace)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_174_gr.html (KOS)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_175_gr.html (MACEDONIA)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_176_gr.html (Delfiki Anfiktionia)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_177_gr.html (MACEDONIA)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_178_gr.html (KNOSOS)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_181_gr.html (Athen)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_182_gr.html (Tenedos)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_183_gr.html (Thassos)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_184_gr.html (Halkideon)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_185_gr.html (Delos)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_187_gr.html (Philippos II,king of Macedonia,Olympionike)
http://www.museumshop.gr/products_188_gr.html (Macedonia,Alexander the Great)
from IP address 212.183.61.123
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Για τον Κώστα.!
by "DAI" (no login)Μερικές παρατηρήσεις...:
*Φυσικά άλλο Σλαβόφωνος και άλλο Σλάβος..
*Δεν ξέρω για τις διαλέκτους που λες.. Ξέρω 10-15 φράσεις μόνο..
*Η γλώσσα των Σκοπίων είναι χωριάτικη Βουλγάρικη κατά μια φίλη μου Βουλγάρα.
*Αυτό περί Βουλγάρων να πάρουν τα όπλα τους ήταν ένα μεγάλο σφάλμα του Μεταξά που "ανακύρηξε" όλους τους Σλαβόφωνους Έλληνες Βούλγαρους με ότι άυτό συνέπαχθηκε κατά τον Β' ΠΠ.
*Ανέφερα τον χάρτη των στρατιωτικών σχολών για να αντιληφθούμε και τα λάθη από την επίσημη κρατική τακτική.
*Μπορώ να φανταστώ αυτά που λες για τις εκκλησίες και τους "Παλαιοελλαδίτες" κτλ κτλ.. Τα ίδια γίνονταν και με τους Μικρασιάτες..
* Η Σκοπιανή ταυτότητα είναι αυτή κάποιων ανθρώπων που προσπάθησαν να χειραγωγήσουν Βούλγαροι (Ίλιντεν), Σέρβοι (πρώτα είστε Σέρβοι και μετά "Μακεδόνες", Έλληνες (πρώτα είστε Βούλγαροι, μετά "Μακεδόνες" μετά πάλι Βούλγαροι κτλ!) και φυσικά οι ΚΚ.
*"Πού είχε ξανακούσει ο άσχετος και αμόρφωτος αγρότης στα σύνορα περί μακεδονικού έθνους?"
Ε και πού είχε ακούσει ο ίδιος αγρότης για Ελλάδα κτλ.. όλα θέμα προπαγάνδας ήτανε. Ξέρω οικογένειες που έχουν συγγενείς και Ελλάδα και ΠΓΔΜ!!!
*"Ο οπαδός του Κ.Κ. που μετεξελίχτηκε σε "σλαβομακεδόνα" είχε λοιπόν υποστεί καταπίεση, ενώ ο δεξιός που μετεξελίχτηκε σε βούλγαρο όχι?
Και γιατί άλλοι παρέμειναν έλληνες?κάτι λείπει λοιπόν από την κοσμοθεωρία σου."
Βρε συ.. δεν πρόκειται να βρεις μια απάντηση που να ταιριάζει σε όλες τις περιπτώσεις. Το φρόνημα και οι κλίσεις του καθενός σε καταστάσεις όπως ήταν ο πόλεμος και η τριπλή κατοχή της Ελλάδας είναι μεγάλη ιστορία. Ποιος ξέρει ποιος μισούσε τους Μεταξικούς που τον έλεγαν Βούλγαρο ή στην αρχή το έπαιζε Βούλγαρος να τα έχει καλά με την ΟΧΡΑΝΑ και μετά το έπαιζε ΣΝΟΦίτης όταν ο ¶ξονας κετέρρεε ή είχε τσακωθεί με τους Πόντιους και ΠΑΟ ή και τα ανάποδα!!! Εγώ από Δελφούς είμαι στην καταγωγή και στην οικογένειά μου είχε από όλα για ένα σωρό διαφορετικούς λόγους!!! Τι ψάχνεις τώρα..
from IP address 141.211.186.170
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Macedonian Protest - 1924
by mkont (no login)/Protest_na_Ilindenskata_Organizacija_vo_Sofija_do_bugarskata_vlada.jpg)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Macedonians were always Greeks !!
by (Login istor) Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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It is the Bulgarian language!
by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)
VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Mkont
by Peperki (no login)from IP address 70.28.215.99
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WHAT'S SO NICE MORON! NEITHER OF U UNDERSTAND IT!
by THAT'S A VILLAGE BULGARIAN DIALECT! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Like you would know the difference.
by You are illiterate (no login)from IP address 70.28.215.99
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PEPPERESKI! DID U GO TO DANFORTH TECH! EASTERN COMMERCE!EAST YORK! IF YES!THEN I KNOW
by EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OFF! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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ALL YOU KNOW HOW TO SAY IS NEMA! DOBRO! DOBRO! KAKOSI !
by H (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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YOU ARE COMPLETELY BRAINWASHED BY YOUR EXCOMMIE OLD MAN!WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE HIS
by NAME IN ANY LANGUAGE! GOOFBALL! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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1956: Macedonians in Bulgaria Declare Themselves "MACEDONIAN"
by mkont (no login)/Census_in_Bulgaria.jpg)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Relics of Tito-Stalin attempt to make a new nation !!
by (Login istor) Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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1700s: "...Jews, Macedonians, Greeks, Armenians, Serbs."
by mkont (no login)(3) Gyula Szekfu Harom nemzedek. Egy hanyatlo kor tortenete [Three
Generations; The Story of a Declining Age], (Budapest, 1920), 72.
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Those Macedonians were Vlachs !
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Early Modern Macedonian Flag
by mkont (no login)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Sloboda or svoboda ??????????????
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Russian Documents on the Macedonians
by mkont (no login)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Macedonians named after Greek names ALL the cities they built or renamed
by (Login istor) Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Macedonia on Icons 1840s
by mkont (no login)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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All we know is that Makedoncite sekogash bile Grci !!
by (Login istor) Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Macedonians in Ukraine 1700s
by mkont (no login)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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How did those "Macedonians" call Thessaloniki??
by (Login istor) Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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The Macedonian Towns of Occupied Macedonia To The Venetika River
by mkont (no login)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Prove that they were yours and we will give them back to you.....
by (Login istor) Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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1690: Emperor Leopold I: "Letter of Protection to the Macedonian People"
by mkont (no login)On May 31, 1690, Leopold I issued another appeal where he extended his protection to the population of Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia and Albania and called them to Austrian colors to fight against the Turkish yoke.
GENS; GENTEM:
Gentum, fem., gen., plur., < gens, gentis, f., clan; here, nation.
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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How did those "Macedonians" call Thessaloniki??
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
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Re: 1690: Emperor Leopold I: "Letter of Protection to the Macedonian People"
by bulgarian (no login)"...Така, на пример, австрискиот цар Леополд се заложил за заштита на Македонците поради трагичното Карпошово востание. Авторот сепак не успеа да пронајде непобитен доказ за овој документ, бидејќи на ова барање, проф. Ауер од виенскиот домашен, дворски и државен архив на 2 јануари го даде следниов одговор: „Наводното писмо за заштита на Македонците од кралот Леополд Први од 26 април 1690 година во литературата се јавува во различни форми, меѓутоа во нашите архиви не може да се пронајде доказ за неговото постоење".
from IP address 193.41.64.2
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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The Macedonic Language Family of IndoEuropean
by mkont (no login)
from IP address 69.192.25.111
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha !!
by (Login istor)IDIOTS !!
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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the emblem of the first army of Hellas
by Panagiotis (no login)
or http://www.army.gr/n/g/archive/signs/html/1h_stratia.html
Hellenic army is divided in to several "straties" (armies) and this is the emblem of the first. Guess where is the base of this army.... Macedonia of course
Macedonia = Hellas
from IP address 62.1.134.252
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VARDASKA BANANOVINA IS ONLY 21% MAKEDONIAN SOIL... REST IS ALBANIA. WE WANT THE 21% BACK
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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kirie epiloxia
by Panagiotis (no login)from IP address 62.1.134.252
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Παρε και 10 από εμένα !! Και σε καλή μεριά !!!
by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedonia (no login)from IP address 217.171.51.205
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EEE, OOO 9a paroume 9a paroume to Afstraliano !!!
by (Login istor)For the fame and the glory of Greekness !!!!!!!!
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
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Continuation of "Butel" Name Thru Two Millenia
by mkont (no login)Butelj
Butelion
Monastir in History
Following is a recap of the town's history, with references to the overall history of the region for context.
Founded in the Fourth Century BCE as Heraklea Lyncestis (/Lincositis) by Alexander's father, it was historically part of Macedonia, and had strong ties to Jannina/Yoannina, Kastoria and Edessa/Edhessa even into modern times.
It lay on the Roman Via Agnetia (the Egnatian Way), linking Rome with Thessaloniki/Salonika and Constantinople/Byzantium via southern Italy (Bari/Barium, on the Adriatic coast) and the Illyrian--now Albanian--port of Dores (Durrλs/Duraz/Durazzo- also called Epidamnos/Epidamnus in Greek and Dyrrhachium in Roman times), so was along an accessible route of both commerce and conquest. The passage carved by the Roman road is still the overland link between the Adriatic and the Aegean, passing through Tirana, Ohrid (ancient Lychnidus), Bitola, Edessa, and Pella on its winding route.
It was a regional capital in Roman times--from around 168bce. One of the local names applied to the settlement in those days seems to have been Butelion, a precursor of the modern Slavic name--Bitola.
It was also a local seat for Byzantine (from around 324ce) governance under the name Phlaginia, which reflected its importance as a strategic and commercial town of the adjacent Pelagonian plain, Macedonia's granary.
In 1097, Crusaders, on their way to the Holy Land by way of the ancient Roman road paused at Phlaginia, and discovering that "heretics" lived there, conquered it, killed all the inhabitants, and razed the city to the ground. The ancient ruin is still visible on the outskirts of the modern city.
From the eleventh century CE, the locality was called Monastir by the Greeks, due to the many monasteries which had sprung up. (The Slavic name of the place apparently has the same meaning.)
Settled and fought over by the local Greeks, Serbs, Bulgars and Albanians—in addition to the ethnic Macedonians, it fell under long Ottoman Turkish rule (1382-1913ce). During this period it was the seat of the Rumelian Elaet.
Kemal Ataturk (Kemal Pasha) the Father of the modern Turkish state is said to have attended its military academy, and later made a point of a state visit to the town.
It had enough activists to be one of the flashpoints of pan-Slavism in the period preceding the Balkan Wars. (The Ilinden Uprising, centered in the nearby town of Krushevo, in 1903ce, was put down by troops from the Turkish garrison in Bitola--as the Slavic-language Macedonian insurgents called it.) In 1908-09ce, it was the site of a congress of Albanian intellectuals which adopted a standard orthography (spelling) in the Latin alphabet for the Albanian language.
The Turkish census of 1904ce counted over 178,000 Bulgarians and over 261,000 Greeks in the "Vilayet of Monastir."
After WWI, it was officially known by its Slavic name--Bitol; a name dating back to the short period of Bulgarian occupation.
The official name of the town today is Bitola, and it is so listed in the (US) Holocaust Museum among the Jewish communities destroyed by the Nazis and their sympathizers.
I know of two other places with the same name.
The city of Monastir, Tunisia is big enough to have an international airport.
In the 1990s, during the long, slow and bloody descent into chaos, and partition of Yugoslavia, the township of Beli Manastir in the Baranja region of Croatia achieved notoriety as the site of ethnic cleansing condemned by the UN.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monastir in Jewish History
To pay a bit more attention to the Jewish history of the town.
During the period of Roman rule, the first Jewish communities spread into Macedonia from Thessaly, where they had first appeared during the Hellenistic period (3rd-4th Centuries BCE).
Direct evidence of Jewish settlement in the region was discovered in 1930ce by a Yugoslav archeologist, Joso Petrovic, who found at nearby Stobi a column from a 3rd century CE synagogue donated by one Claudius Tiberius Polycharmos, Pater Synagogae ("Father of the Synagogue")--the Chief Parnas. The scholar Marmorstein presumes that the ancestors of Polycharmos were freemen of the emperor Claudius who had left Rome for Macedonia around the middle of the First Century CE.
Nothing is known about Jewish settlement in Monastir in the Byzantine period.
In the 12th century CE there were Greek-speaking (Romaniote) Jewish artisans and traders in the town. More Jews arrived after the expulsion from Hungary in the 14th century CE, and at the end of the 15th century, there was an influx of refugees from Asia Minor.
During the Ottoman period (1382-1913ce), Monastir became a magnet for several waves of those expelled from Iberia and then-Spanish Sicily by the Inquisition, who came up from the Illyrian coast or through Salonika.
It thus became a major spiritual center for the Sephardic Jews of the entire Empire, second only to Salonika. In the 16th century CE, Rabbi Joseph ben Lev was head of the yeshivah. In the 18th century CE, Rabbi Abraham ben Judah di Buton was a rabbi of Monastir. A fire which swept through the town in 1863ce destroyed over 1,000 Jewish homes and shops. A blood libel accusation was leveled against the town's Jews in 1900ce.
The largest synagogue in town, Kahal Kadosh Portugal was destroyed in WW-I. The second largest, Kahal Kadosh Aragon was destroyed in WW-II, along with most other evidence of previous Jewish life there. Our family belonged to the Kahal Kadosh Aragon, sometimes known in those days as el k'al de arriba.
In 1884ce there were 4,000 Jews in Monastir. In 1914ce, there were over 7,000 Jews--both Ashkenazim and Sefaradim--in Monastir, organized into at least eight congregations; by 1931ce they were down to only 3751.
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Macedonians have always been Greek because ....
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
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The original name was Herakleia Lyncestis, the name Bitola comes from OBITEL.
by (no login)Get serious fella, stop the falsifications...
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No. The name Bitola comes from Greek Voutelion that comes from
by (Login istor)Vlachs were sepherds Voutelion was a place for small animals (just born)
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by REPUBLIKA YUGOPLASTIKA (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
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Macedonian criticism of Oliver Stones film Alexander
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)Letter Sent to Movie Critics - November 2004
Respected Ladies and Gentlemen:
As you are all aware, Oliver Stone’s film on the Macedonian conqueror Alexander is due to open on November 24. We, the Macedonians, the descendents of Alexander’s Macedonians, want to inform you that we reject the movie as historically inaccurate for it is not a true story of Alexander as Stone claims it to be. We are particularly concerned by the “Greekness” that Stone has given to the Macedonian king.
1) Where are the Historical Errors in the film?
Stone has Collin Farell (the actor playing Alexander) saying to the Macedonians before the battle of Gaugamela against the Persians that they are fighting for “the glory of Greece.”
Ancient sources do not write that Alexander fought for the “glory of Greece” but for that of Macedonia. Three ancient historians detailed Alexander’s address to the army before the battle. And each one of them made a clear distinction between Macedonians, Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians, as four separate ethnicities that composed Alexander's army. Here are the words of the Roman historian Curtius Rufus:
“Riding to the front line he (Alexander the Great) named the soldiers and they responded from pot to spot where they were lined up. The Macedonians, who had won so many battles in Europe and set off to invade Asia ... got encouragement from him - he reminded them of their permanent values. They were the world’s liberators and one day they would pass the frontiers set by Hercules and Father Liber. They would subdue all races on Earth. Bactria and India would become Macedonian provinces. Getting closer to the Greeks, he reminded them that those were the people (the Persians on the other side) who provoked war with Greece, ... those were the people that burned their temples and cities ... As the Illyrians and Thracians lived mainly from plunder, he told them to look at the enemy line glittering in gold” (Curt.3.10.4-10)
Notice what Alexander told the Macedonians - “Bactria and India would become Macedonian provinces”. It is for the glory of Macedonia, not for the glory of Greece. The Greeks, are here a second nation of importance to Alexander.
Throughout Oliver Stone’s film there is confusion whether the Macedonians were distinct people or just another Greeks. Ironically the original Synopsis of the film makes the clear distinction between Macedonians and Greeks. There we read: “Alexander led his virtually invincible Greek and Macedonian armies through 22,000 miles…His extraordinary journey begins when Alexander launches his invasion from Macedonia…”
Yet although in the Synopsis the Macedonians are separate from the Greeks, and they left from Macedonia and not from Greece, Stone has them fighting for the “glory of Greece”?! The error is obvious.
2) Why the Macedonians and Greeks still hate each other today?
Macedonia is now divided between today’s republic of Macedonia, Greece, and Bulgaria. The division occurred in 1912 when Greece, Serbia, and Bulgaria occupied and partitioned the country, inflicting a tragic faith upon the descendents of Alexander.
In the 19th century Macedonia was occupied by the Turkish Ottoman Empire. The Macedonians then were well aware that they, and they alone, were the descendents of Alexander's Macedonians.The Rules of the Macedonian Rebel Committee proclaimed at the Macedonian Uprising in 1878 fighting liberation of Macedonia from the Turkish empire proclaim:
“It is well known to all of us that this ill-fated country of ours, Macedonia, owing to the egoistic aims of the Great Powers, was gain left to Turkey after the Congress of Berlin. As a result of that, in certain regions of our fatherland many scenes full of blood, known to all of us, took place... We rebelled as advocates of freedom. With the blood we shed all over Macedonian fields and forests, we serve freedom, as the Macedonian army of Alexander of Macedon did, with our slogan ‘Freedom or Death!”
This is very important - in this same 19th century, the Greeks did not claim the ancient Macedonians as "theirs," on the contrary. The works of the Greeks in the 18th and 19th centuries reveal that the Greeks did not regard the ancient Macedonians as Greeks, but foreigners who had conquered Greece (see Politis 1993:36; Dimaras 1958; Karagatsis, 1952). Politis had cited fourteen examples from the Greek literature from 1794 to 1841 in which the ancient Macedonians are excluded from the ancient Greek world (1993: 40-42).
With the occupation of southern Macedonia by Greece in 1912-13, everything changed. Greece needs its occupied Macedonian territory and created new propaganda to claim the ancient Macedonians as “Greek”. Such propaganda is needed to justify the present occupation. This stealing of the Macedonian history by the Greeks is resented by the Macedonians who have long before the Greeks claimed descent from Alexander, and still do.
3) Why today’s Macedonians are direct descendents of Alexander?
In 2001 it was genetically proven by a scientific team from Universidad Complutense in Madrid, Spain, that the ancient Macedonians and the ancient Greeks were two separate and distinct peoples. It also proved that the modern Macedonians are descendants of the ancient Macedonians of Alexander the Great, while the modern Greeks are not related to either the ancient or modern Macedonians. The lengthy scientific paper which was published and entitled “HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks”, concludes the following:
“Macedonians belong to the ‘older’ Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians. Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum. Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Macedonians are related to other Mediterraneans and do not show a close relationship with Greeks: however, they do with Cretans. This supports the theory that Macedonians are one of the most ancient peoples living in the Balkan peninsula, probably long before the arrival of the Mycaenian Greeks, about 2000 BC.”
Thus, genetically and scientifically had been proven not only that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, but that they are older then the ancient Greeks. You may read the full content of this genetic study at the following web address: http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf
4) Greek Racial Discrimination against the Macedonians in Northern Greece
The 80-page human rights violation report on Greece entitled "Denying Ethnic Identity - Macedonians of Greece" which was published in May 1994 concluded:
"Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free _expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been persecuted and convicted for their peaceful _expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government - followed and threatened by the security forces - and subjected to economic and social pressure resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly. Ultimately, the government is pursuing every avenue to deny the Macedonians of Greece their ethnic identity"
Thus 90 years after the partition of Macedonia, the ethnic Macedonians are still residents in all parts of Macedonia. Despite the assimilatory policies of Greece, the Macedonians are still sizable minority in this country. In the diaspora, there are also large Macedonian communities in Canada, United States, Australia, and the Western European countries.
Here we have to mention the so-called “Pan-Macedonian Association”, a Greek racist group with a history of well-documented racial hatred against the Macedonian people. It is a deliberately misnamed racist organization of Greeks whose raison d'κtre is to deny the existence of a distinct Macedonian identity in North America, precisely as Human Rights Watch had described it in Northern Greece. Both Greece and its “Pan-Macedonian Association” strive to appropriate the Macedonian history as “Greek” while in the process denying the existence of both the ancient and modern Macedonians.
5) Ancient and Modern Evidence about the Distinct Macedonian Nation
The long list of modern scholars (among which are Eugene Borza, Waldemer Heckel, A.B. Bosworth, Peter Green, Ernst Badian, Carol Thomas, S.M. Burstain, P.A. Brunt, John Yardley), agree that the ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, but a distinct nation. Their views align with the Spanish genetic research above. Eugene Borza, Historian, Professor, and Archeologist, whom the American Philological Association refers to as "Macedonian specialist" has written:
"It is clear that over a five-century span of writing in two languages representing a variety of historiographical and philosophical positions the ancient writers regarded the Greeks and the Macedonians as two separate and distinct peoples whose relationship was marked by considerable antipathy, if not outright hostility."
Waldemar Heckel, one of the foremost Alexander scholars in the world, in his Alexander the Great (2004), writes on page 7:
“It is clear from the extant historians that the lost sources made a clear distinction between Macedonians and Greeks - ethnically, culturally and linguistically – and this must be an accurate reflection of contemporary attitudes...”
In alignment with the genetic results cited above, the ancient Greek and Roman historians also clearly excluded Macedonia from Greece as a distinct country, and the Macedonians from the Greeks as distinct nation. Not one ancient historian wrote that Macedonia is “Northern Province of Greece” or that the Macedonians are “northern Greeks”.
The Greek orator Demosthenes, spoke of Alexander the Great’s father Philip II as "not only no Greek, nor related to the Greeks, but not even a barbarian from any place that can be named with honors, but a pestilent knave from Macedonia, whence it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave" (Demosthenes, Third Philippic, 31).
Justin, the Roman historian from the 3rd century AD wrote: "Antipater was appointed governor of Macedonia and Greece" (Justin 13.4.5)
Arrian, the ancient Greek historian from the 2nd century AD wrote: "Darius' Greek mercenaries attacked the Macedonian phalanx… the Macedonian centre did not set to with equal impetus… and the Greeks attacked where they saw that the phalanx had been particularly torn apart. There the action was severe, the Greeks tried to push off the Macedonians into the river and to reserve victory to their own side… There was also some emulation between antagonists of the Greek and Macedonian races" (Arrian 2.10.4-7).
Pausanias, the ancient Greek historian from the 2nd century AD wrote: "the united Greeks defeated the Macedonians in Boeotia and again outside Thermopylae forced them into Lamia" (Pausanias 1.1.3)
Plutarch, the ancient Greek historian from 1st century AD quoted Alexander’s words where the king himself separates the Macedonians from the Greeks as distinct nation: “When you see the Greeks walking about among the Macedonians, do they not look to you like demi-gods among so many wild beasts?” (Alex.51.2)
Conclusion
Please consider the Macedonian position when approaching Stone’s Alexander. Alexander and his Macedonians would have been appalled by Stone who had tried to make them fighting for Greece, when the ancient evidence says they did for Macedonia, because as the ancient authors testify they were not Greeks.
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Lupita, and this is why we hate you bulgarian cocksvckers
by Arkadi (no login)gamimeni racia
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Show me where's the theivary....
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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you know what Im talking about
by Arkadi (no login)from IP address 24.193.2.46
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No I don't......can you please be more specific....
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE YUGO-BULGARS! (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE YUGO-BULGARS (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
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bulgarian moron===>the ancient writers also make a distinction between the other greek
by states!nonsense bulgars!u are slavs!not maced (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Komita
by stefanos.gr (no login)from IP address 195.97.106.34
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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FOR THE FREEEDOM AND THE GLOOOOOOORYYYYYYYYYYY OF GREEEECEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
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Kostake, this will be like music to your ears
by Filip M (no login)Interesting. And false. Recently several Macedonians from Greece had interviews on the Macedonian TV, spoke their beautiful Lerin, Voden and Kostur dijalects, and they were neither translated nor subtitled. Do you know why?
BECAUSE WE SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE. I CAN UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT THEY SAY, AND EVERYTHING THAT YOU WRITE IN MACEDONIAN. EVERY SINGLE WORD.
How about the music. Do you, Aegean Macedonians, have different music from us in Republic of Macedonia? Listen Kostake:
Teskoto: Mavrovo, Debar, Porece and Gora (R.Albania)
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/real/teskoto.ram
Nevestinsko: Krushevo.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/nevestinsko.ram
Camce: Tetovo, Gostivar.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/camce.ram
Berance: Lerin and Prespa.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/berance.ram
Kasapskoto: Bitola, Ohrid, Lerin, Kostur and Voden.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/real/sviraci_majstori/kasapsko.ram
Staro Tikvesko: Tikves, Gevgelija and Postol (Pella).
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/real/tikvesko.ram
Rusalii: Strumica, Dojran, Kukus, Solun and Seres.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/real/Rusalii.rm
Berovka: Berovo and Pirinska Makedonija.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/berovka.ram
Ratevka: Malesevo.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/real/sviraci_majstori/ratevka.ram
Crnogorka: Skopje.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/crnogorka.ram
Potrcano: Ovce pole and Veles.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/potrcano.ram
Baba Gjurgja: Kumanovo, Skopje, Kriva Palanka.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/baba_gjurgja.ram
Cucuk: Skopje, Veles.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/cucuk.ram
Adana: Skopska Blatija, Skopska Crna Gora.
http://macedoniadirect.com/music/ora/adana.ram
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)from IP address 212.183.53.9
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http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138321841/Nikos+is+Goran+a+Macedonian+or+is+
by Nikos filoskopianos and Arkadi (no login)Nikos:
What am I going to do?Greeks call me a traitor for defending your roght to be am macedonian in a greek forum defending the "greekness" of that name!
And now my friend Tony asks strange questions.Will you allow me to call you Macedonian Slav just once?After all you know that 9 out of 10 times I refer to Macedonians, I mean OUR people.
Goran:
You have my permission ONLY FOR ONCE if you promise me you will put the name Slav among inverted commas.I 'm not a "Slav"!I'm an ethnic Macedonian.Sob,Sob!!
Why don't they recognize us?
The result:
------------------------------
Both are Macedonians! Stef is a greek macedonian and Goran an "slav" (sic!!!!) macedonian... BUT:
by Nikos (no login)
...within normal friendship BOTH are called Macedonians (in each 'scent'). And someone with a little brain CAN distinguish them (history).
I am more a realist. And thats the way i LOVE.
BEST Regards Arkadi!
Nikos
----------------------------------
The slav-speaking Vangelis Strebeniotis from Kastoria would eat apostates like you for breakfast.
Spitting against Macedonians is "realism".
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Slavic is the traditional langauge...
by pelister (no login)from IP address 203.32.87.250
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TIME FOR YOUR PILS PENISTER.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
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Kai pali o Kostas. You must really love this forum and Nikos.
by Ronin (no login)Ante sovareftite paliospammer. Kanete olous tous ellines rezili. I alithia then xriazete spamming. Kanete plaka eis varos ton ethnikon thematon.
Eiste poustides kai ferneste san tourkoi. Exoun dikio oi skopianoi pou sas onomazoun etsi.
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Eno esi eh!
by Aeneas (aka A.) (no login)from IP address 69.87.193.227
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TAIKOU-SAN OR "RONIN"
by Anonymous (no login)(By the way, what kind of obsession of yours is this with japanese nicknames)?
Otan me ybrizei kapoios kai en prokeimenw esy, tote 8a apanto.Ayta ta peri "problhmatismou" sou gia to mellon tou forum einai gia na ta xaftei o Nikos kai oi omoideates tou.
Den anhko stous oneliners tou forum.Eimai poly kalytera enhmerwmenos apo oso fantazesai gia ta balkanika zhthmata kai mporo na yperaspisto apotelesmatika tis 8eseis mou apenanti se opoiondhpote aka8oristou e8nikothtas propagandisth tou dikou sou (metriou) belhnekous.
Fysika kai den prokeitai na katso edo mesa gia panta, omos omologoumenws den mporesa na antista8w ston peirassmo na sou apanthso.
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KAI PALI LATHOS EISAI KOSTA
by stefanos.gr (no login)http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=84.59.40.136
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=84.60.182.21
Να υποθέσω ότι πάντοτε βγάζεις τόσο βιαστικά συμπεράσματα?
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Επειδή τα δικάσου συμφέροντα είναι πιο «Σκοπιανά»;
by Aeneas (aka A.) (no login)from IP address 69.87.193.227
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Για να δούμε θα διορθώσεις το ι;
by Aeneas (no login)from IP address 69.87.193.227
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:)
by stefanos.gr (no login)Ουδέποτε διεκδίκησα τον τίτλο του αμερόληπτου. ¶νθρωποι είμαστε και δεν μπορούμε να είμαστε τέλειοι. Και η αμεροληψία είναι ένα χαρακτηριστικό της τελοιότητας.
Αυτό όμως που μπορώ να πω με σιγουριά είναι ότι σε σύγκριση με σένα, ΝΑΙ είμαι αμερόληπτος.
Καλό Σαββατοκύριακο
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Re: KAI PALI LATHOS EISAI KOSTA
by Anonymous (no login)Ronin:
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=84.60.182.21
dslb-084-060-182-021.pools.arcor-ip.net (84.60.182.21) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States
Taikou:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1136042598/Happy+new+year
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=59.158.193.166
59x158x193x166.ap59.ftth.ucom.ne.jp (59.158.193.166) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States.
Polles symptwseis bre paidi mou...
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O logos pou den feygo akoma einai oti perimeno thn kritikh sou
by Kostas (no login)As mas apanthsei loipon, e8nika pws tous fwnazei o Nikos?
Oti ayto pou ekane o Nikos kai o ka8e Nikos den einai elleipsh sebasmou pros tous sympatrwtes tou kai kyriws pros aytous pou efagan ta kalytera xronia tous na grafoun kai na agwnizontai yper ths Makedonias den prokeitai na to dextw.
Oti stis 9 apo tis 10 fores pou o Nikos leei th leksh "Makedonas" anaferetai ston ka8e "Goran" einai kataptysto.
Otan enas an8rwpos leei oti 8a er8ei sthn kastoria gia na ma8ei gia tis rizes tou kai gia to makedoniko zhthma 'h pou mila gia ton an8ellhna 8eio tou les kai einai kati pou prepei na ton kanei yperhfano, tote ayto se mena leei oti o an8rwpos aytos einai toulaxiston amfitalanteyomenos apo tous myriades pou exoun proshlytisei oi "Goran" ana ton kosmo.Mporw na anextw filo-skopianizontes typou Nikou otan toulaxiston den ka8ontai na propagandizoun anistorhtes 8eseis se ellhnika forum kai meta na brizoun.
Apo th meria mou den prokeitai na trabh3w allo ayth thn kontra me ton "Nick".Isws hmoun yperbolikos pou ton khnyghsa toso.Yparxoun kai xeiroteroi omws aytos htan o prwtos pou arxise na me brizei kai to paradexthke.
Arkoumai sto na pw oti einai epieikws APARADEKTOS kai 8a eprepe na NTREPETAI pou propagandizei thn apodoxh aytou tou onomatos gia ton (ka8e) Goran.
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tha soy apantisso
by stefanos.gr (no login)from IP address 195.97.106.34
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O Nikos exei ton ena gonio Ellina kai ...
by (Login istor)Den mporoume na exoume polles apaithseis apo afton. Den xerei istoria oute exei elliniki paideia....
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
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Einai efkolo na ton kanoume ex8ro mas ....
by (Login istor)O Goran xerei poli kala ti einai o Nikos kai poso metraei edw.
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
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Mpourdes, ego grafo apo Germania.
by Ronin (no login)Kyrie Kosta se pio panepistimio didaskis. I mipos douleveis mono sto kafekopteio "O Kostakis" kai mperdevis ta oneira me tin pragmatikotita.
from IP address 84.60.164.56
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Epishs
by Anonymous (no login)>Ronin:
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=84.60.182.21
dslb-084-060-182-021.pools.arcor-ip.net (84.60.182.21) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States
>Taikou:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1136042598/Happy+new+year
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=59.158.193.166
59x158x193x166.ap59.ftth.ucom.ne.jp (59.158.193.166) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States.
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kai na akomh mia epi8esh pou mou egine.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137933200/worry+about+your+own+sad+pathetic+life
από ανώνυμο με IP παρόμοιο με του Taikou:
Posted on Jan 22, 2006, 2:33 PM
from IP address 59.167.47.175
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=59.167.47.175
ppp47-175.lns2.syd6.internode.on.net (59.167.47.175) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States.
Σύμπτωση και αυτό?Καλά "αθώος" ο νίκος λόγω έλλειψης ενημέρωσης.
Αυτοί όμως που επιτίθενται συστηματικά σε έλληνες με την κατηγορία του εξτρεμιστή επειδή δεν αποκαλούν τους Σκοπιανούς "μακεδόνες"?
Να τους συγχωρήσουμε και αυτούς?
from IP address 195.74.243.72
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Kai ayto symptosi?
by Kostas (no login)>Ronin:
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=84.60.182.21
dslb-084-060-182-021.pools.arcor-ip.net (84.60.182.21) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States
>Taikou:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1136042598/Happy+new+year
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=59.158.193.166
59x158x193x166.ap59.ftth.ucom.ne.jp (59.158.193.166) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States.
----------------------------------------
kai na akomh mia epi8esh pou mou egine.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137933200/worry+about+your+own+sad+pathetic+life
από ανώνυμο με IP παρόμοιο με του Taikou:
Posted on Jan 22, 2006, 2:33 PM
from IP address 59.167.47.175
http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/ip-locate/index.php?address=59.167.47.175
ppp47-175.lns2.syd6.internode.on.net (59.167.47.175) is located in Marina Del Rey, California, United States.
Σύμπτωση και αυτό?Καλά "αθώος" ο νίκος λόγω έλλειψης ενημέρωσης.
Αυτοί όμως που επιτίθενται συστηματικά σε έλληνες με την κατηγορία του εξτρεμιστή επειδή δεν αποκαλούν τους Σκοπιανούς "μακεδόνες"?
Να τους συγχωρήσουμε και αυτούς?
from IP address 195.74.243.72
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Esy ksekinises ton teleftaio dialogo.
by Ronin (no login)from IP address 84.60.164.56
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Re: Esy ksekinises ton teleftaio dialogo.
by Anonymous (no login)Ton dialogo mazi sou/sas ton ekleisa 2.17
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138364234/Me+prokalese+me+ta+pseydh+tou
to mhnyma gia to dialogo Goran -Nikou peri "Slavo" makedonwn ton eixa hdh dhmosieysei stis 2.13 ws antipoina gia tis teleytaies ybreis pou e3apelyse enantion mou.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138364234/Me+prokalese+me+ta+pseydh+tou
An den h8eles na synexisw na grafw as mhn anakateywsoun.
Telos,an epi8ymei na ginei Skopianos o Nikos kai ara "kalytero an8rwpino plasma" opws eipes), tote xarisma sas.
from IP address 195.74.243.72
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Syga tora pou tou dineis kai symasia tou haholi.
by Aeneas (no login)Kai epi simiosi, O Nikos ehei to "alothi" edo se auto to forum, alla merikoi Elladites (ehas h dio) ehoun tin "hari" na ehoun stenoy desmous me Slavo-Skopianoys/nes kai os ek toutou ehoun ohi kai toso "Ellinikes" theseis. Ti na kanoume, kai autoi "Ellines" einai.
from IP address 69.87.195.55
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Re: Syga tora pou tou dineis kai symasia tou haholi.
by Anonymous (no login)Gia to gegonos omws oti o Nikos erwtotropei me tous skopianous den exw amfibolia.(Monos tou ta grafei sta germanika post pou pare8esa)oute oti apokalese aytous tous an8rwpous "makedones".Epimenei kiolas!Me megalh piesh prospa8hsa na tou bgalw me to tsigeli th le3h "slavomakedonas" mpas kai ektonw8ei kapws h katastash, omws tipota!akomh kai ayto tou 3inizei!
kai meta arxise na anamasei ta gnwsta epixeirhmata pou serbiroun se Ellhnes peri aytoprosdiorismou epeidh "zoun epi aiwnes sth gewgrafikh Makedonia".
Ayto den to sygxwrw.
from IP address 62.1.21.251
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Geia sou Aenea!!
by "DAI" (no login)from IP address 141.211.186.170
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http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138321841/Nikos+is+Goran+a+Macedonian+or+is+
by Nikos filoskopianos and Arkadi (no login)Nikos:
What am I going to do?Greeks call me a traitor for defending your roght to be am macedonian in a greek forum defending the "greekness" of that name!
And now my friend Tony asks strange questions.Will you allow me to call you Macedonian Slav just once?After all you know that 9 out of 10 times I refer to Macedonians, I mean OUR people.
Goran:
You have my permission ONLY FOR ONCE if you promise me you will put the name Slav among inverted commas.I 'm not a "Slav"!I'm an ethnic Macedonian.Sob,Sob!!
Why don't they recognize us?
The result:
------------------------------
Both are Macedonians! Stef is a greek macedonian and Goran an "slav" (sic!!!!) macedonian... BUT:
by Nikos (no login)
...within normal friendship BOTH are called Macedonians (in each 'scent'). And someone with a little brain CAN distinguish them (history).
I am more a realist. And thats the way i LOVE.
BEST Regards Arkadi!
Nikos
----------------------------------
The slav-speaking Vangelis Strebeniotis from Kastoria would eat apostates like you for breakfast.
Spitting against Macedonians is "realism".
from IP address 62.1.229.43
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SLAVOBULSHI.TS. WE WANT ALL OF OUR COUNTRY BACK.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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INTRUDERS MUST BE KILLED OR SEND BACK, WHERE EVER THEY COME FROM...
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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You can have it.Nobody is stopping you...
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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ej, grkoman
by pelister (no login)Replace the traditional Macedonian names of all the villages.
Rebuild the Macedonian Churches torn town.
Replace the Slavic Icons destroyed by the modern Greek State.
Pelister
ps: Never forget what Greek King George said/:
"...there are very few Greeks in Macedonia..."
from IP address 203.32.87.250
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STUPID SLAVOBULGAR SHI.T ANIMAL .
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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JUST TRYIT VOULGARE! YOU WILL BE SLAGHTERED INSTANTLY!
by W (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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UN Commends Macedonia's progress in advancing women's rights..
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)The UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women commended Macedonia for the considerable progress it had made in advancing women's rights in a short period of time, while urging it to address the plight of prostitutes and trafficked women, improve conditions for ethnic women, and raise women’s political voice.
The Committee's 23 independent experts were considering the combined initial, second and third periodic reports of Macedonia on its compliance with the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women.
Quoting the country's report, one expert noted that "women normally engage in prostitution individually, but almost all of them have pimps who, under the cover of lovers or protectors, act mercilessly and take greater part of earnings". Emphasizing the need to combat sexual exploitation of women, she questioned whether the country had criminalized prostitution, and if pimps or prostitutes’ clients were prosecuted for their behaviour.
Responding to that concern, a Macedonian delegate said the police had neutralized almost all prostitution centres over the past three years, and efforts had intensified to eliminate prostitution from urban apartments.
Another member of the delegation added that the country had signed the United Nations Convention on Transnational Crime, a strategy and an action plan on trafficking and illegal migration had been laid down for 2006-2008, and several channels for trafficking in human beings had been terminated.
Turning to ethnic women, experts emphasized the need to focus on the plight of Roma, Albanian and other minority women, especially through temporary special measures to promote their rights. One expert quoted civil society sources that suggested minority women possessed the highest illiteracy and school dropout rates, the lowest rate of school attendance, and often the highest rate of unemployment. According to some sources, up to 60 per cent of Roma women had experienced discrimination, emphasizing the need for measures to reverse that situation.
These conclusions are based on the replays of Macedonian delegation, led by Minister of Labour and Social Policy Stevco Jakimovski, who reporting to the Women's Anti- Discrimination Committee, said that progress had been achieved in a number of areas, including education, health care, political participation and the non-governmental sector. Still, much remained to be done in such areas of social and economic life as employment, the situation of rural women, violence and trafficking in women and girls.
from IP address 220.237.198.218
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NOW ALBANIANS RIGHTS TOO. AFTER ALL THEY ARE THE MAJORITY.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Your Dead right my Gypsy freind..
by Komita (no login)Why don't we start with Athens Gypsy?
from IP address 220.237.198.218
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POUTANITSA. MAKEDONIA IS FREE OF GYPSY. THEY ALL LIVEING IN FYROM. LOOK AROUND YOU KURVA.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by BULGAROSKATA (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by REPUBLIKA BULGAROSLAVIJA (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Greece to play their Turkish brothers in EURO 2008 Qual.
by MACEDONIAN BANDIT (no login)from IP address 211.31.18.112
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TURKOMONGOLS AND BULGAROMONGOLS ARE ONE AND THE SAME. ASK ANYONE MALAKA BULGSHI.T
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by BULGAROSKATA (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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WE MUST EXTERMINATE ALL BALKAN TALIBANS.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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starting with the PONTIANS!
by MACEDONIAN BANDIT (no login)from IP address 211.31.18.112
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Excellent place to start....
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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ALL BASTARDS WITH MONGOL ROOTS. LIKE YOU . ASIATIC ANIMALS.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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Nikos in search of his pseudo-macedonian identity.
by Kostas (no login)http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137505461/Re-+hey+Nikos%2C+tolle+Fotos%2C+die+du+da+gezeigt+hast
(so much boasting, so many questions, so many similarities with other apostates ....)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138148046/Nikolaki%2BGoran%2C+who+inspires+you+the+most-
....If I guess your family correctly.
Then YES, you do have 2 Greek uncles from Koritsa/Korce.Not only Kastoria.
And YES the following message was meant for YOU to teach you that the use of Slavic does not mean self-identification with the Skopians.:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138312953/Response+to+the+filoskopianoi+Nikos-Feniks-Goran
You are a traitor of Macedonia and of my people.In Kastoria they call people like you APOSTATES and FILOSKOPIANOUS.Even their relatives denounce them and will have nothing to do with them again.
You propagate the same-old arguments that the Skopians use to persuade Greeks to accept their "geographical rights on the name Macedonian", after "having resided there for 1400 years".ΑΝΑΦΕΡΕΣΑΙ ΣΕ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΕΣ ΤΟΥ ΑΙΓΑΙΟΥ ΚΑΙ ΑΙΓΑΙΑΤΕΣ ΧΡΗΣΙΜΟΠΟΙΩΝΤΑΣ ΟΧΙ ΜΟΝΟ ΤΑ ΕΠΙΧΕΙΡΗΜΑΤΑ, ΑΛΛΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΝ ΔΙΑΛΕΚΤΙΚΗ ΤΩΝ ΣΚΟΠΙΑΝΩΝ.ΈΚΑΝΕΣ ΤΗΝ ΠΑΤΑΤΑ ΝΑ ΜΑΣ ΠΕΙΣ ΟΤΙ Η ΔΑΡΔΑΝΙΑ ΚΑΙ Η ΠΡΩΤΕΥΟΥΣΑ ΤΟΥ ΒΙΛΛΑΕΤΙΟΥ ΚΟΣΣΟΒΟΥ, ΤΑ ΣΚΟΠΙΑ,ΗΤΑΝ ΣΤΗ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ.ΚΑΙ ΜΕΤΑ ΕΡΧΕΣΑΙ ΝΑ ΔΙΔΑΞΕΙΣ ΕΣΥ ΕΜΕΝΑ ΠΕΡΙ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑΣ?
from IP address 195.74.242.141
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I thought you left this forum. Akomi edo eise?
by Ronin (no login)from IP address 84.60.173.162
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Me prokalese me ta pseydh tou
by Anonymous (no login)telos.
from IP address 62.1.229.43
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kai na mh fugeis apo to forum ....
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Macedonia is an example of successful democratic transition
by Komita (no login)27.01.2006
Macedonia - Council of Europe Ministerial Committee
CE COMMITTEE OF MINISTERS WELCOMES MACEDONIA'S CANDIDATE STATUS
Macedonia is an example of successful democratic transition, a country that actively contributes to strengthening the Western Balkan stability, the Council of Europe Ministerial Committee says in a report.
The document, issued by the CE highest executive body in a period between the last two sessions of the CE Parliamentary Assembly, commends Macedonia's achievements - implementing of the Framework Agreement and commencing of the power decentralization process.
These rather positive activities have enabled Macedonia to become a candidate country for the European Union membership, a decision fully supported by the CE Committee of Ministers, the report reads.
from IP address 220.237.198.218
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by REPUBLIKA TITOKLONIJA (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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But it doesn't respect its neigbhors identity ....
by (Login istor)Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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Clasiccist this is the Albania you prey for, and will receive in the end..
by Komita the Macedonian (no login)from IP address 220.237.198.218
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....
by MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT BULGARISM (no login)VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........
The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :
Bulgarian municipality - Prilep
Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!
from IP address 212.183.53.9
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GLIGOROFF>GLIGOROV>WE ARE SLAVS>PSEUDOMACEDONIANS>YUGO-BULGARS--->
by REPUBLIKA YUGOPLASTIKA (no login)from IP address 212.183.60.129
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Greek-Cypriot Tennis Star Bagdathis is....Lebanese
by Dok (no login)>Melbourne already had become a haven away from home. He won the junior tournament here in 2003, alerting the Greek community, who cherish their own. He had many relatives in Australia anyway, although mostly Lebanese, from his father's side. It meant he would never lack a support network here
from IP address 212.85.15.66
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Apparently His Camp Has Been Giving Away Many Free Tickets
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)...he's played some gutsy tennis and if his luck holds out he could unsettle his opponent in the final, probably Federer at this early stage.
The grk supporters, a motely crew of teenage South Melbourne FC supporters have been very noisey with football like chanting that has given Baghdad extra motivation over his opponents whether this is enough to overcome the steely Swiss is yet to be seen...
from IP address 144.131.20.186
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..." ΦΥΡΟΜ
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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DoK, Isn't This The Story Of The 'Greeks'...?
by Feniks Makedonski (no login)LOL
Long time no read my friend, I trust all is well...
from IP address 144.131.20.186
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by BULGAROSKATA (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..." ΦΥΡΟΜ
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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MOUNOPANO PENIX. HOW ABOUT YOUR MOM WITH THE BIB BOOBYS?
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Hellenism welcomes all and excludes none....
by Arkadi (no login)BTW Diamandi, or Xiomara or whatever the fvck you are why do you LOVE to press our buttons??
from IP address 24.193.2.46
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EXCEPT SLAVOBOULGARS AND TURKOMONGOLS..
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha !!
by Anonymous (Login istor)MALAKA!!
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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MAKEDONIA = ELLAS = 4000 YEARS HISTORY..........................................
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Anyone here like pomegranates?
by (no login)from IP address 24.42.41.81
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Who loves them not! ;-)
by Nikos (no login)
tasty tasty!
Especially as a sirup mixed in "Hemingway Sour"
Nikos
from IP address 84.59.29.100
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You mean "RODIA" ??? l brewed some ouzo with rodia and ahladia.GREAT!!!
by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)from IP address 217.146.50.238
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I LOVE THE MILLS 36.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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OH please I cant have another one of those...
by TPP (no login)from IP address 58.105.22.78
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THAT`S WHY YOU IMIGRATE TO CANADA RIGHT?
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Personal message to me from another forum.....
by Prometheus (no login)2. We don't deny our Slavic roots. In every official history book which is by the way thaught in the schools here, we consider our ancestors to be the Slavs. Ancient Macedonia is never refered to as our legacy.
3. We are not a communist experiment, we are not artificial nation as some claim, we have our own culture and heritige, very similar to the Serbian and Bulgarian one, but still distinct. The fact that our national genesis took a bit longer than with the others doesn't necesarilly mean that we are a sub-culture of the Bulgarians or Serbs.
4. The fact that we identify ourselves as Macedonians is not a product of the "communist propaganda and brainwashing". It is simply the name under which my ancestors started to build our nationhood. We might not trace this back to the ancient times but we can definately trace it to the last 2 centuries.
5. Us identifying as Macedonians is not a threat to Greece, is not an attempt to steal your history or heritige, and the last thing we want to do is deny (try do deny) the right of the Greeks to identify themselves as Macedonians (if they come from this region). If we try to look the things in another way than the balcan black and white way, I'm sure that we can find a solution to share the name.
Now I don't know if these in-sights about your northern neighbour change anything for you, but I had to clarify some things.
I think it is very sad that two neighbouring nations who have so much in common (maybe we have a similar language with the Bulgarians, but you wouldn't beleive how similar are we to Greeks in so many other aspects of life) still pick on each other over such irrelevant matters. It is even sadder that the ignorance on both sides but I have to say especially on the Greek side is so big, that we stigmatize each other on base of very incorrect stereotypes. Of course I don't mean this in a offensive way, it's just that we have much more reasons to travel to Greece than you guys to travel here so we have more chances to see that the world is not black & white as some would like to present it.
PRETTY BRAVE AND HONEST WORDS!!!
BY THE WAY, THE LEAFS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from IP address 67.71.48.200
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I corrected a mistake of yours...
by (no login)There, that's better.
from IP address 24.42.41.81
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BEST regards Prometheus!
by Nikos (no login)Best greetings from Berlin!
Nikos
from IP address 84.59.29.100
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Tell him that if they call their country Macedonia then they deny our right to be called .
by (Login istor)The fact is that in their history school books there is no mention of Macedonians' Greekness while the texts are that smart as to NONE could distinguish ancient Macedonians from those SlavoSkopians !!!
Stefanos could inform us about this!
Don't forget that SlavoSkopians would be really IDIOTS if they insist to be called Macedonian while are not related to ancient Macedonians !!!!!!!!!
Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385
from IP address 194.63.235.157
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MAKEDONOMAXOS 8AGINO! STON OLLYMPO 8ANEVW! NATO FWNAKSO MIAFORA!PWS BARBAROUS 8A SFAZW!
by F (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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funny how all neo nazi greaks pick on stefanaki and nikos for being non-negating in your
by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)makedonians or what ever there choosing, therfore, may I
suggest you follow suit.
from IP address 203.214.45.228
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TI LES VRE SLAVIC RIDICULE!WHAT'S MACEDONIAN ON YOU!WHEN U CAN'T EVEN READ WHAT THE
by MACEDONIANS WROTE!GO BACK TO SLEEP!VLAMENO! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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ARHIDI GAMIESE RE POUSTI MALAKAS
by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)from IP address 203.214.45.228
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."
from IP address 212.183.60.129
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LEO. YOUR MOTHER, AND YOUR GIAGIA INE MEGALOS MALAKAS. HAHHAA MOUNOPANO TOU KERATA.
by EPILOXIAS (no login)from IP address 213.84.59.197
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Speaking of suits, Leo...
by (no login)from IP address 24.42.41.81
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GLIGOROFF>GLIGOROV>WE ARE SLAVS>PSEUDOMACEDONIANS>YUGO-BULGARS--->
by BULGAROSKATA (no login)from IP address 212.183.60.129
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THE MACEDONIAN CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE BARBARIC BULGARS OF FYROM WILL CONTINUE!WITH MORE
by PASSION&DETERMINATION!UNTILL WE DEFEAT THEM! (no login)from IP address 70.30.11.100
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