Macedonia : 4.000 years of Greek history culture and civilization




  Welcome to the discussion forum of "The truth about Macedonia"

  Here you can have discussions about Macedonia in particular and the Balkans in general.
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 Links

 • Macedonian Press Agency
 • Pan-Macedonian Association
 • Real Macedonia

    


ΔΙΕΘΝΗΣ ΕΚΣΤΡΑΤΕΙΑ ΣΧΕΤΙΚΑ ΜΕ ΤΗΝ ΟΝΟΜΑΣΙΑ ΤΟΥ ΚΡΑΤΟΥΣ ΤΩΝ ΣΚΟΠΙΩΝ




WE MUST EXTERMINATE ALL BALKAN TALIBANS.

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:54 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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starting with the PONTIANS!

by MACEDONIAN BANDIT (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:55 PM
from IP address 211.31.18.112


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Excellent place to start....

by Komita the Macedonian (no login)

pozdrav backa

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:56 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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ALL BASTARDS WITH MONGOL ROOTS. LIKE YOU . ASIATIC ANIMALS.

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:05 PM
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by SKOPIANS ARE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:32 PM
from IP address 212.183.53.9


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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by SKOPIANS ARE BULGARS!THE YUGOSLAV BULGARS (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:30 PM
from IP address 212.183.53.9


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Nikos in search of his pseudo-macedonian identity.

by Kostas (no login)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137875511/Nikolakis
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137505461/Re-+hey+Nikos%2C+tolle+Fotos%2C+die+du+da+gezeigt+hast
(so much boasting, so many questions, so many similarities with other apostates ....)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138148046/Nikolaki%2BGoran%2C+who+inspires+you+the+most-


....If I guess your family correctly.
Then YES, you do have 2 Greek uncles from Koritsa/Korce.Not only Kastoria.

And YES the following message was meant for YOU to teach you that the use of Slavic does not mean self-identification with the Skopians.:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138312953/Response+to+the+filoskopianoi+Nikos-Feniks-Goran

You are a traitor of Macedonia and of my people.In Kastoria they call people like you APOSTATES and FILOSKOPIANOUS.Even their relatives denounce them and will have nothing to do with them again.

You propagate the same-old arguments that the Skopians use to persuade Greeks to accept their "geographical rights on the name Macedonian", after "having resided there for 1400 years".ΑΝΑΦΕΡΕΣΑΙ ΣΕ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΕΣ ΤΟΥ ΑΙΓΑΙΟΥ ΚΑΙ ΑΙΓΑΙΑΤΕΣ ΧΡΗΣΙΜΟΠΟΙΩΝΤΑΣ ΟΧΙ ΜΟΝΟ ΤΑ ΕΠΙΧΕΙΡΗΜΑΤΑ, ΑΛΛΑ ΚΑΙ ΤΗΝ ΔΙΑΛΕΚΤΙΚΗ ΤΩΝ ΣΚΟΠΙΑΝΩΝ.ΈΚΑΝΕΣ ΤΗΝ ΠΑΤΑΤΑ ΝΑ ΜΑΣ ΠΕΙΣ ΟΤΙ Η ΔΑΡΔΑΝΙΑ ΚΑΙ Η ΠΡΩΤΕΥΟΥΣΑ ΤΟΥ ΒΙΛΛΑΕΤΙΟΥ ΚΟΣΣΟΒΟΥ, ΤΑ ΣΚΟΠΙΑ,ΗΤΑΝ ΣΤΗ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ.ΚΑΙ ΜΕΤΑ ΕΡΧΕΣΑΙ ΝΑ ΔΙΔΑΞΕΙΣ ΕΣΥ ΕΜΕΝΑ ΠΕΡΙ ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑΣ?



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:52 PM
from IP address 195.74.242.141


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I thought you left this forum. Akomi edo eise?

by Ronin (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:07 PM
from IP address 84.60.173.162


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Me prokalese me ta pseydh tou

by Anonymous (no login)

Omos den prokeitai na epanel8w sto 8ema tou apostati akohm kai an 8elhsei na apantisei.Kai ego to paratrabh3a kai aytos.
telos.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:17 PM
from IP address 62.1.229.43


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kai na mh fugeis apo to forum ....

by (Login istor)

Oloi mas eimaste aparaithtoi....

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:39 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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Macedonia is an example of successful democratic transition

by Komita (no login)


27.01.2006
Macedonia - Council of Europe Ministerial Committee
CE COMMITTEE OF MINISTERS WELCOMES MACEDONIA'S CANDIDATE STATUS

Macedonia is an example of successful democratic transition, a country that actively contributes to strengthening the Western Balkan stability, the Council of Europe Ministerial Committee says in a report.
The document, issued by the CE highest executive body in a period between the last two sessions of the CE Parliamentary Assembly, commends Macedonia's achievements - implementing of the Framework Agreement and commencing of the power decentralization process.
These rather positive activities have enabled Macedonia to become a candidate country for the European Union membership, a decision fully supported by the CE Committee of Ministers, the report reads.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:50 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by REPUBLIKA TITOKLONIJA (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:33 PM
from IP address 212.183.53.9


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But it doesn't respect its neigbhors identity ....

by (Login istor)

How could be democratic such an agressive country ???

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:44 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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Clasiccist this is the Albania you prey for, and will receive in the end..

by Komita the Macedonian (no login)

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/wl/012506kosovorugova/im:/060126/photos_en_afp/060126094421_btigtrjs_photo0;_ylt=AuGpGGACD7fz3zQL_q5U7GiaK8MA;_ylu=X3oDMTA5bGcyMWMzBHNlYwNzc25hdg--?sp=-1&lsp=6000

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:38 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT BULGARISM (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:34 PM
from IP address 212.183.53.9


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GLIGOROFF>GLIGOROV>WE ARE SLAVS>PSEUDOMACEDONIANS>YUGO-BULGARS--->

by REPUBLIKA YUGOPLASTIKA (no login)

<

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:34 PM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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Greek-Cypriot Tennis Star Bagdathis is....Lebanese

by Dok (no login)

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/01/22/1137864806640.html



>Melbourne already had become a haven away from home. He won the junior tournament here in 2003, alerting the Greek community, who cherish their own. He had many relatives in Australia anyway, although mostly Lebanese, from his father's side. It meant he would never lack a support network here




Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 11:23 AM
from IP address 212.85.15.66


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Apparently His Camp Has Been Giving Away Many Free Tickets

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

...to enhance his supporter base...

...he's played some gutsy tennis and if his luck holds out he could unsettle his opponent in the final, probably Federer at this early stage.

The grk supporters, a motely crew of teenage South Melbourne FC supporters have been very noisey with football like chanting that has given Baghdad extra motivation over his opponents whether this is enough to overcome the steely Swiss is yet to be seen...





Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 11:53 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..." ΦΥΡΟΜ


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:29 PM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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DoK, Isn't This The Story Of The 'Greeks'...?

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

From Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt and other far flung sh;t holes...anyone can call themselves 'greek' and they're all 'related' to ATG...

LOL

Long time no read my friend, I trust all is well...

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 11:57 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by BULGAROSKATA (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!
"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..." ΦΥΡΟΜ


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:29 PM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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MOUNOPANO PENIX. HOW ABOUT YOUR MOM WITH THE BIB BOOBYS?

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

I FORGOT YOUR SISTER.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:45 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Hellenism welcomes all and excludes none....

by Arkadi (no login)

Even Bulgarian Byproducts, and Wallachians like DOK.

BTW Diamandi, or Xiomara or whatever the fvck you are why do you LOVE to press our buttons??

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:08 PM
from IP address 24.193.2.46


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EXCEPT SLAVOBOULGARS AND TURKOMONGOLS..

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:10 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Hahahahahahahahahahaha !!

by Anonymous (Login istor)

Dog discovered shiits to smell again !!

MALAKA!!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:34 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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MAKEDONIA = ELLAS = 4000 YEARS HISTORY..........................................

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:19 AM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Anyone here like pomegranates?

by (no login)

I just had a good one.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:18 AM
from IP address 24.42.41.81


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Who loves them not! ;-)

by Nikos (no login)



tasty tasty!

Especially as a sirup mixed in "Hemingway Sour"

Nikos

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:25 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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You mean "RODIA" ??? l brewed some ouzo with rodia and ahladia.GREAT!!!

by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)

AA

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:40 AM
from IP address 217.146.50.238


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I LOVE THE MILLS 36.

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:51 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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OH please I cant have another one of those...

by TPP (no login)

anymore. Im sick of fruit. Ive had bucket loads thrown at me since i was a little boy. My dad is a fruiterer so you can imagine what took up 80% of my fridge when growing up...LOL

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:10 PM
from IP address 58.105.22.78


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THAT`S WHY YOU IMIGRATE TO CANADA RIGHT?

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:40 PM
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Personal message to me from another forum.....

by Prometheus (no login)

1. We don't claim the right on Ancient Macedonia or Alexandar. This is a myth produced by Greek propaganda and fueled by wanna-be-intelectuals from my country and our diaspora with their ridiculous claims, DNA analysis etc, who are unfortenately always the loudest.
2. We don't deny our Slavic roots. In every official history book which is by the way thaught in the schools here, we consider our ancestors to be the Slavs. Ancient Macedonia is never refered to as our legacy.
3. We are not a communist experiment, we are not artificial nation as some claim, we have our own culture and heritige, very similar to the Serbian and Bulgarian one, but still distinct. The fact that our national genesis took a bit longer than with the others doesn't necesarilly mean that we are a sub-culture of the Bulgarians or Serbs.
4. The fact that we identify ourselves as Macedonians is not a product of the "communist propaganda and brainwashing". It is simply the name under which my ancestors started to build our nationhood. We might not trace this back to the ancient times but we can definately trace it to the last 2 centuries.
5. Us identifying as Macedonians is not a threat to Greece, is not an attempt to steal your history or heritige, and the last thing we want to do is deny (try do deny) the right of the Greeks to identify themselves as Macedonians (if they come from this region). If we try to look the things in another way than the balcan black and white way, I'm sure that we can find a solution to share the name.

Now I don't know if these in-sights about your northern neighbour change anything for you, but I had to clarify some things.

I think it is very sad that two neighbouring nations who have so much in common (maybe we have a similar language with the Bulgarians, but you wouldn't beleive how similar are we to Greeks in so many other aspects of life) still pick on each other over such irrelevant matters. It is even sadder that the ignorance on both sides but I have to say especially on the Greek side is so big, that we stigmatize each other on base of very incorrect stereotypes. Of course I don't mean this in a offensive way, it's just that we have much more reasons to travel to Greece than you guys to travel here so we have more chances to see that the world is not black & white as some would like to present it.

PRETTY BRAVE AND HONEST WORDS!!!

BY THE WAY, THE LEAFS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:49 AM
from IP address 67.71.48.200


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I corrected a mistake of yours...

by (no login)

BY THE WAY, THE LEAFS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There, that's better.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 8:31 AM
from IP address 24.42.41.81


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BEST regards Prometheus!

by Nikos (no login)

...i hope that you have not that typical stereotypic way of thinkin as some greek posters here has (if you followed some arguments from me with 'him' in the last days about to be "Macedonian").

Best greetings from Berlin!
Nikos


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:28 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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Tell him that if they call their country Macedonia then they deny our right to be called .

by (Login istor)

.Macedonian and that this is totally unacceptable.

The fact is that in their history school books there is no mention of Macedonians' Greekness while the texts are that smart as to NONE could distinguish ancient Macedonians from those SlavoSkopians !!!

Stefanos could inform us about this!

Don't forget that SlavoSkopians would be really IDIOTS if they insist to be called Macedonian while are not related to ancient Macedonians !!!!!!!!!

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:10 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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MAKEDONOMAXOS 8AGINO! STON OLLYMPO 8ANEVW! NATO FWNAKSO MIAFORA!PWS BARBAROUS 8A SFAZW!

by F (no login)

F

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:15 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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funny how all neo nazi greaks pick on stefanaki and nikos for being non-negating in your

by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)

nazi point of views, we makedonians except them as greaks

makedonians or what ever there choosing, therfore, may I

suggest you follow suit.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:04 AM
from IP address 203.214.45.228


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TI LES VRE SLAVIC RIDICULE!WHAT'S MACEDONIAN ON YOU!WHEN U CAN'T EVEN READ WHAT THE

by MACEDONIANS WROTE!GO BACK TO SLEEP!VLAMENO! (no login)

G

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:21 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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ARHIDI GAMIESE RE POUSTI MALAKAS

by leo the real Mkedonian (no login)

MALAKISMENW VRE POUSTI MALAKA

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:45 AM
from IP address 203.214.45.228


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:28 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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LEO. YOUR MOTHER, AND YOUR GIAGIA INE MEGALOS MALAKAS. HAHHAA MOUNOPANO TOU KERATA.

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:53 PM
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Speaking of suits, Leo...

by (no login)

...what's happening with your father's imaginary lawsuit to get his imaginary land back in Florina?

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 8:46 AM
from IP address 24.42.41.81


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GLIGOROFF>GLIGOROV>WE ARE SLAVS>PSEUDOMACEDONIANS>YUGO-BULGARS--->

by BULGAROSKATA (no login)

<

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:25 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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THE MACEDONIAN CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE BARBARIC BULGARS OF FYROM WILL CONTINUE!WITH MORE

by PASSION&DETERMINATION!UNTILL WE DEFEAT THEM! (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:03 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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VELLEIDIO==>H LAVRA MAKEDONIAS!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:11 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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C'mon Greeks Control Your Retarded Spammers...Shame On You

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

I never thought I'd see the day when this forum would implode from grk spamming alone...I've seen their relentless idiocy on Macedonian forum sites but never imagined they would bring down their own site...

And how this site has devolved...with only a few decent chaps left (stefanos and Nikos) and a few sometimes 'interesting' contributors (DAI, Houhoulis, Diamandi and Boris)...it is no longer even worth a short visit, let alone spending hours at a time reading and responding to posts...

One only needs to open the site and he's 'greeted' with "FACK THIS AND FACK THAT" titles with empty content...

You Greeks pride yourselves on the respect you have earned all over the world, as friendly people, western values, educated and cultured...sadly none of this is evident on this forum...the first time visitor will get an entirely degenerate perception of what it is to be Greek today.

Good work grk spammers and retards alike...



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:41 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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Especially you..

by "DAI" (no login)

deserve this "treatment" because you do the SAME as those spammers..

offending other forum contributors because of lack of arguments.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:44 AM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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Boo Hoo...

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

Stop crying DAI...the day you stop insulting me, my people and my country is the day you will recieve my respect and when I begin to respond to your posts seriously...



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:47 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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You are an insult of yourself..

by "DAI" (no login)

PS. I never said anything about Australians or Australia "your country and people"..

Keep on the "good job"..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:51 AM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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It Is That Type Of Arrogance That Blinds You, DAI

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

I seriously can't believe that you expect me to show you courtesy and respect when its distinctly lacking from your side...

The basic premise of any form of discussion or negotiation is respect for each others views...without this basis there can be no start to discussion.

Do you agree my Greek friend...?

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:56 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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When did you present me with your views?

by "DAI" (no login)

At any point?

Shall I start posting your absurdities and insults instead?

You call me friend after all those insults.. what shall I make of this? Go figure..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:15 AM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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BULGARIAN BASTARDE!MACEDONIA IS NOT FOR DEBATE!WHATS THERE TO DISCUSS!SLAVOBULGARIANS HAVE

by NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MACEDONIANS! (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:41 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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VARDASKA BANANOVINA IS ONLY 21% MAKEDONIAN SOIL... REST IS ALBANIA. WE WANT THE 21% BACK

by EPILOXIAS (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:11 AM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:31 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:30 AM
from IP address 212.183.60.129


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Hmmm

by (no login)

1) Practically nobody without any ties to the area has ever been or likely will ever be a regular on this forum, or any forums on your side that I could name. If some outsider really wants to learn about Greece, there are hundreds of other sites one would go to. Only a complete fluke would send someone here.

2) The big-time spammers have been at it here for at least the last two years. You've been here for far longer (five years?), and suddenly now this is a problem for you?

3) The only way to get rid of the spam is for the administrator to act. He has shown absolutely no interest in editing this forum save for removing the occassional post featuring extremely pornographic pictures. I was banned twice from Bill Nicholov's old M-4-M forum simply because he didn't like my opinions, and I was never obscene and never spammed. Given these two extremes, I'll take the total freedom of this forum.

4) We all have three options: learn to live with it, reduce our visits here, or stop visiting here.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:14 AM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:29 AM
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Nikos is Goran a Macedonian or is Stefanos a Macedonian

by Arkadi (no login)

or is Macedonian not an identity???

In my Book Goran is a SlavMmacedonian
while Stefanos is Macedonian

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:30 AM
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Your 'Book' Isn't The Bible...

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

some would say that your 'book' isn't worth wiping once arse with...

You arrogant fvck...

Get off Niko's case, the guy has a Macedonian friend...get over it.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:44 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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bulgarian pitchika! untill yesterday your fathers were aetheist communists! communism was

by your religion!who r u to judge the bible! (no login)

d

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:02 AM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:32 AM
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What kind of Macedonian names is Goran?

by John (no login)

Alexandros, Hephaisteion, Philippos, Cleopatra, Ptolemaios.........Macedonians always had Greek names

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:32 AM
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goran===>a bulgar! by all means!no questions asked!

by g (no login)

g

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:59 AM
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Take it as it appears:If he says Matsedonskji and Solun ,so he is a Voulgaros maybe resid

by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)

residing in Skopjie area.But you have always to remember and select the Voulgarophones and Voulgarofrones from the Hellinofrones who also speak the idiom (the Voulgariko idiom around here and the other idiom around Skopjie).

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:51 AM
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mporeis na mou peis gia poio logo/skopo enas hellinofronos mhlaei thn slavovoulgarikh

by dialecto?when there is no need for it! (no login)

f

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 7:30 AM
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Both are! Stef is a greek macedonian and Goran an "slav" macedonian... BUT:

by Nikos (no login)

...within normal friendship BOTH are called Macedonians (in each 'scent'). And someone with a little brain CAN distinguish them (history).

I am more a realist. And thats the way i LOVE.

BEST Regards Arkadi!
Nikos

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:21 AM
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your stance is respected

by Arkadi (no login)

but how can a person call themselves 'Macedonian' that speaks carbon copy of Bulgarian and insult Greeks like this
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138355834/DoK,+Isn't+This+The+Story+Of+The+'Greeks'...-

Is Feniks a Macedonian??? If you answer yes Ill be bewildered, I know Goran is not a venemous antiGreek but what about this cocksvcker Penix

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:05 PM
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Re: your stance is respected

by Anonymous (no login)

One can speak slavic but a have a greek heart.
Nikos speaks german and greek but he has spat on Macedonia's greekness.THAT'S WHY HE IS A TRAITOR OF THE CAUSE DECLARED ABOVE

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:08 PM
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But Goran denies that he is a Slavomacedonian !!

by (Login istor)

while stefanos is proud of his Macedonian identity.

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:49 PM
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Lets ignore all the spammer irrespective their nationality.

by Ronin (no login)

If you "communicate" with them, they will partcipate more and more. They have nothing relevant to say. Whether "loxias" or "mkont" ....

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:48 AM
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THE GREEKNESS OF THE MACEDONIANS IS NOT 4DEBATE! IT'S ABOUT WHEN WILL GREECE BE MILITARILY

by READY TO DECLARE WAR AGAINST THE BARBARIANS! (no login)

G

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:58 AM
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Petros Houhoulis - my response.

by Peperki (no login)

Petros, I would like to thank you for your effort - for writing such a long and thorough post. I appreciate the time and effort you took.

I will readily admit that I do not have such a detailed knowledge of ancient Macedonian history, so I will not try to dispute what you have written. On that same note, I am sure that what you have written can be found in hundreds of books, so how could I possibly dispute the historians? I will answer that later on.

So, what I will try to discuss with you is my opinion (that is what a discussion is, isn’t it?).

You clearly write that there was no Greek or Hellenic state/country, and that it was a “culture” instead, and yet that does not give you any basis for lumping the Macedonians in with the rest of the bunch. You cannot make the sweeping generalization that the ancient Macedonians were the same as the other Hellenic tribes just because they shared the same culture. That is like saying the Chinese and Japanese are the same. Well, which are they, Chinese or Japanese? Sure we can lump them all (with Korean, Thai, Laos etc…) together and call them Asian – but that doesn’t mean that they are THE SAME. Obviously ancient Macedonia outshined the others in conquering the Persians, just as the Athenians outshined everyone else in…., I don’t know…, geometry? To sum it all up, modern Greeks obviously would like to include the ancient Macedonians in their history – and have bits and parts of history to back them up, so the historians come to the same conclusions – but that is only one, GENERAL opinion.

Actually, at this point I want to change the discussion slightly. Have you read “The DaVinci Code”? If you haven’t, I’m sure I can still make my point. The controversy of the book is that Christian history is portrayed completely opposite to what we have been taught. The book gives logical and thought provoking reasons why we have been taught what we have and what the actual truth could be. The point the book tries to make is that what we have known to be true for 2000 years could actually be one big farce. I’m not talking about the spiritual religion ("Jesus Christ our saviour", etc…), I mean the actual story of Christ, Constantine, et al., the whole bible. The key theme is that Christianity as we know it was “created” for the financial gain of those in power (knowing that you are not religious, I am sure you already know that). Having said all that, my point is that if (and it’s a big IF, because the book is fiction) the book is true, then millions of people would have to re-evaluate their beliefs. Many would refuse to do so and many would embrace the new truth and many would be somewhere in between.

It is not in your favour to dispute what you/Greeks have been taught about the ancient Macedonians, you believe it to be true, you have a hundred books that prove it – how could you think otherwise? What I am trying to point out is that your perception of the truth is a little one sided.

Another point I would like to make about history, is that history has always been written by those in power. Those in power can easily influence what is recorded. It happens today, so why wouldn’t it happen 2000 years ago. Macedonians have not had power since Alexander’s time, Macedonians have been under a different rule since then and have NOT had their history recorded by themselves, but by others.

Let’s move on to modern Macedonian history. I am not going to go into much detail about the numerous wars and politics that happened over the past 100 or so years – as with ancient Macedonian history, the same can be said about “modern” history – the Macedonians (and I’ll call ourselves Macedonian, because I do not know any alternative), having been under various different rules for 2000 years, did not have the resources and support to establish a formal, organized leadership – and thus, could not write their own history. Clearly the most valuable aspect of our modern history is the Ilinden uprising. Macedonians wanted an independent Macedonia. Regardless of what a person spoke, or what they were "classified" as (ie: Greek, Vlach, Bulgarian, etc…) they wanted an independent Macedonia (independent of Greece, Bulgaria, etc…). That is my definition of a Macedonian. (the Ilinden uprising is just one example of Macedonian unity)

As you may (or may not) know, my parents come from northern Greece. Many of our customs and language has been taken from the Greeks, however, we are not Greek. Greeks think that we are all Bulgarians because our other customs and majority of our language is similar to Bulgarian. My parents came to Canada without even knowing that there was a province in Yugoslavia called Macedonia. They didn’t have a clue what Tito was supposedly trying to do. My parents are not historians or politicians – all they know is that they were discriminated against, forbidden to speak their own language, forced to learn Greek, etc… When they found out that a Macedonian church was being built in Toronto (and that the congregation was mostly Macedonians from northern Greece), they were ecstatic (in Canada they could worship in Macedonian freely!). When they met Macedonians from Yugoslavia (maybe not from Skopje, but from a village), and could understand them, they were ecstatic. When they first saw books written in Macedonian and not Bulgarian (yes, the languages are different – although a Greek wouldn’t be able to hear the difference), they were ecstatic. Thus, they embraced anything and everything that came from Yugoslavia. After the hardship they experienced in Greece, their Macedonian identity was finally being VALIDATED. Canada was able to give them that, whereas they would never have been able to experience that if they stayed in Greece.

So how can you tell me, when my great-grandparents fought for an independent Macedonia, that I am not Macedonian. If you want to keep your arguments based on your version of ancient Macedonia, then we really have nothing more to discuss.

In your last post you quote me and also wrote “Finally, you are really funny when you suggest that "...only 200 people in Greece think they are Macedonian..." In fact, your problem is that more than 2 million people in Greece declare themselves to be Macedonian, and more than 1 million are indigenous. They just have a different and more accurate meaning for that word...

I don’t disagree that you and 2 million others are Macedonian, however you do not agree that I am Macedonian as well. You seem to believe that only Greeks can be Macedonian. You have been taught the meaning of the word and you think it is accurate, just like in “The DaVinci Code”, maybe you have been taught something that only benefited the powers that be for financial gain. CAN you think differently just for a second? Or is it easier to keep the status quo? Changing the status quo would, in your mind, mean defeat – and yet, that is a very shallow way of looking at history. If you can't open your mind, we don't have anything to discuss.

As for the name issue, unfortunately for you, Greece has lost. We will either get a hyphenated name, or the name "Macedonia" will be spelled with a “j” and “k”. If and when this does happen, maybe then you will be able to alter your perspective of Macedonian history a little bit.

These discussions started because you thought I might have something to discuss, as opposed to me being someone who just wants to insult everyone on the forum. Like I said in the beginning, when I made any progress with anyone in the past on these forums, but then it got "too close to comfort" – because they didn’t want to alter their narrow minded perspective - they would resort to spewing off facts and quotes in defence, which meant the end of the discussion.

We’ll see how you respond now.



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:10 AM
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IF YOU TRULLY FOUGHT 4MACEDONIA! U WOULD RESPECT THEIR MACEDONIAN HELLENIC LEGACY!INSTEAD

by U DENY THEM!&PORTRAY THEM AS SLAVS!!!! (no login)

W

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:29 AM
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U FOUGHT 4MACEDONIA 4THE SAKE OF LAND!THE NAME&EVERYTHING THAT GOES WITH IT!NOT 4PATRIOTIC

by REASONS!U R SLAVIC THEIVES!NOT MACEDONIANS! (no login)

]

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:38 AM
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U DON'T HAVETO FANTASIZE WITH YOUR MIND!ALL U GOT TO DO IS LOOK AT THE INSCRIPTIONS(FACTS)

by MACEDONIANS LEFT US!THEY WERE HELLENES! (no login)

R

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:45 AM
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THERE IS NO FVCKEN WAY!GREECE WILL ALLOW FYROMS SLAVS TO SLAVISIZE THE GREEKNESS OF THESE

by MACEDONIANS! (no login)

U ARE BULGARIANS!NOT MACEDONIANS!U TRIED TO BULGARIZE MACEDONIA! BY DENYING THE GREEKNESS
by OF THESE MACEDONIANS! (no login)


BULGARIAN IMPOSTER!!!THE HELLENIC ORIGIN OF MACEDONIA IS WRITTEN IN STONE.
by THESE ARE THE MACEDONIANS! (no login)




The names of the kings of ancient Macedonia


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


These are the names of the kings of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. If you can find any non-Greek name in those, then please send me a message, otherwise, you should wonder why they are all Greek...

ARGEAD dynasty and their mythical ancestors

Hercules
Illos
Kleodaios
Aristomachos
Timmenos
Kissios
Thestios
Merops
Aristodamidas
Phidon
Karanos (Late 9th/Early 8th Cent.BC) He built the city Aeges (Vergina)
Koinos (Mid-8th Cent.BC)
Tyrimmas (Late 8th/Early 7th Cent.BC)
Perdikkas I (670-652BC)
Argaios I (652-621BC)
Philippos I (621-588BC)
Aeropos I (588-568BC)
Alketas (568-540BC)
Amyntas I (540-498BC) From this period we have the first historical records
Alexandros I (498-454BC) Participated in the Olympics and received the title of the Philellin
Perdikkas II (454-413BC)
Archelaos I (413-399BC) Made Pella the capital of his kingdom
Orestis (399-396BC)
Aeropos II (396-393BC)
Pausanias (393BC)
Amyntas II the Lioras (393BC)
Amyntas III (392-370BC)
Alexandros II (370-368BC)
Ptolemeos Alorites (368-365BC)
Perdikkas III (365-359BC)
Philippos II (359-336BC) He first managed to unify the Greek states under his hegemony
Alexandros III the Great (336-323BC) His expedition spread the Greek culture and created a great empire
Philippos III Arrhidaios (323-321BC) Brother of Alexander III the Great, mentally incapable
Antipatros (321-319BC) He was appointed king until Alexander IV* would become adult
*Alexandros IV was the son of Alexander III and Roxani and they were both murdered by Kassandros in 310 BC

Immediately after Alexander's III death started the competition between his generals (Ptolemeos, Antigonos, Lysimachos, Eumenis, Leonatos, Seleukos, Dimitrios) for the throne of his empire. Very soon the empire was divided into 5-6 states that competed eachother, until the conquer by the Romans.

RIVAL KINGS: 319-301 BC

Kassandros Son of Antipatros that built Thessaloniki
Antigonos I Monophthalmos (319-301BC)
Dimitrios I Poliorkitis Son of Antigonos
Lysimachos
Seleukos Soter
Ptolemeos Lagos
ANTIPATRID dynasty

Kassandros
Philippos IV
Antipatros
Alexandros V
RIVAL RULERS

Dimitrios I Poliorkitis (294-288BC)
Pyrrhos (288-285BC)
Lysimachos (285-281BC)
Ptolemeos Keravnos (281-279BC) He was defeated by the Galats
ANARCHY

Meleager (279BC)
Antipatros Etesias (279BC)
Sosthenis (279-277BC)
ANTIGONID dynasty

Antigonos II Gonatas (277-239BC) He reorganized the Macedonian kingdom
Dimitrios II (239-229BC)
Antigonos III Doson (229-222BC)
Philippos V (221-179BC)
Perseus (179-168BC) He was defeated by the Romans in 168 at Pydna
As you can see for yourself all the names of the kings are 100% Greek. The "historians" of FYROM, to overcome that problem, simply claim that the kings of Macedonia were hellenized but the people of Macedonia were not Greek! That is a smart trick for a propagandist, but it is very stupid for a historian. They interpret the facts only in the way that suits them best. If the people of Macedonia were not Greek then wouldn't there be any record of any kind of revolution against their "hellenized and therefore hostile" kings? Isn't that logical enough, or do we have to fantasize about ancient and mysterious conspiracies?





Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:52 AM
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BOTTOM LINE===>IF U WERE TRULLY MACEDONIANS!U WOULD WANT TO BE JUST LIKETHEM!BUT INSTEAD

by U DENY THEM&ACT LIKE BULGARIANS! (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:03 AM
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THEREFORE YOU ARE BULGARIANS&NOT MACEDONIANS!

by F (no login)

F

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:05 AM
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WHICH FATHER! DENIES TO NAME HIS SON AFTER HIS FATHER!! MAKES SENSE!

by D (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:07 AM
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by AJVAROVSKI (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:08 AM
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Some quick notes..

by "DAI" (no login)

The point of Petros is that if one questions the Hellenicity of the ancient Macedonians, then you can question the Hellenicity of all other ancient Greek states. How do we know that Athenians were Hellenes?

All I know is that I can read their texts (like in the Museum of Louvre) but so can a classic scholar.

Ethnicity is a shared state of mind with tangible manifestations though.

You say that you are Macedonian (which is your right of course) and that it's fine with you that some 2.5 million Greeks say that they are Macedonians too.

How can you say that though? Your "Macedonia" 's national anthem praises some Bulgarian high school teachers. Ours not.

Our Macedonians were preached Christianity by Apostle Paul (hence the Epistles to Thessaloniceans and Philippeans). Your "Macedonians" were preached Christianity by the Apostles of the Slavs of which you are so "proud" of.

Our Macedonians fought against Hitler in World War II. Your Macedonians greeted them and the Bulgarians as liberators!

For us, Macedonia goes up to Bitola (Heraclea Lychnidos). For you it includes Skopjie, the capital of the ancient Dardanians and Tito Veles the capital of the Paeonians all of which were at war with the Macedonians.

And so on and so on..

It has been shown that the "Macedonia for Macedonians" was a moto conceived by the Bulgars to appease the great powers who just 25 years ago cut in pieces their "great Bulgaria" which was a Russian Panslavistic creation to begin with. For sure the moto appealed to most of the people of Macedonia at the time shicne they were seeing the Serbians, Greeks and Bulgarians getting their freedom and themselves staying under the Turks.

We see how nations are created... and Tito's Macedonians are not an exception. Are not the Austrians Germans? Are not the Montenegrins Serbians? Are not the Cypriots Greeks? Are not the Taiwanese Chinese?

Anyway the case is not lost. There will be a compromise over a shared use of the term Macedonia till the Albanians overtake you and unite with mainland Albania and this will be the end of the story.

We will be both dead by then so why worry?

PS. As for Da Vinci Code... Of course Christianism died when it became a state sponsored religion like all other religions before and after that..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:14 AM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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I disagree with what you say, but more so on these two points.

by Peperki (no login)

You said: "Our Macedonians were preached Christianity by Apostle Paul (hence the Epistles to Thessaloniceans and Philippeans). Your "Macedonians" were preached Christianity by the Apostles of the Slavs of which you are so "proud" of."

That opinion is completely ludicrous. There is NO WAY you can say the Paul only preached to Greeks - try and distort the bible a little more, won't you.

You said: "Our Macedonians fought against Hitler in World War II. Your Macedonians greeted them and the Bulgarians as liberators!"

If it wasn't for the slavs, Greece would be singing the German anthem right now! Please, please, PLEASE find me some quote to prove that MY Macedonians greeted the Nazi's as liberators.

Either you don't know the bible and history, or you are so completely narcissistic that you can't see straight.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:49 AM
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LISTEN SLAVIC AETHEIST COMMIE!THE APOSTLES DID PREACH IN GREEK!NOT IN SLAVIC!BECAUSE THEY

by KNEW MACEDONIANS WERE GREEKS!NOT SLAVS! (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:57 AM
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AND OFCOURSE THEY PREACHED FOR ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:59 AM
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YOU DID GREETED THE NAZIS AS LIBERATORS!WHILE WE RESISTED!& BY DELAY THEM CRITICAL TIMING

by THEY LOST THE WAR! (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:07 AM
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Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Text of Delcev's letter to Nikola Maleshevski:WE ARE BULGARIANS!

"Sofia, 01.05.1899, Kolyo, ... May the dissents and cleavages not frighten you. It is really a pity, but what can we possibly do when we ourselves are Bulgarians and all suffer from the same disease! If this disease had not existed in our forefathers who passed it on to us, we wouldn't have fallen under the ugly sceptre of the Turkish sultans..."


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 9:34 AM
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FYROMS ETHNOGENESIS

by . (no login)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137655920/risto+stefov+the+propaganda+of+stupidities

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:30 AM
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FYROMS ETHNOGENISIS

by . (no login)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1137655920/risto+stefov+the+propaganda+of+stupidities

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:29 AM
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AT 800 BC THE MACEDONIAN ETHNOGENESIS WAS REALITY,MACEDONIANS USE TH CITY STATES CALTURE

by FOR THEIR OWN BENEFITS, (no login)

At 800BC Homer never Call you Hellenes, 499 BC the name was YAUNA,at the middle Ages the
by ITALIANS CALL YOU GRAECI (no login)


Homer lived many generations after the Trojan War.
The Greeks of the epics didn't describe themselves as Greeks (Hellenes), but as Achaeans, Danaans, etc.
"Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name .... The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name, nor indeed any of them

except the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes: in his poems they are called Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans"
- Thucydides


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships


The Yaunβ in Asia Minor revolted in 499, but they were subjected again. Now, it was clear to the Persian government that the possessions in Asia Minor could be safe only when the Yaunβ in the west were subjected as well.

Two years later, king Darius sent a new expedition to the west. The commanders were Datis and Artaphernes. Herodotus presents the expedition as a punitive action against Eretria and Athens, who had helped the Ionians during their revolt of 499.

The modern English word Greek is derived from Latin Graecus, which in turn comes from Greek Γραικός (Graikos), the name of a Boeotian tribe that migrated to Italy in the 8th century BC, and it is by that name the Hellenes were known in the West. Homer, while reciting the Boeotian forces in the Iliad's Catalogue of Ships, provides the first known reference to a Boeotian city named Graea,[24] and Pausanias mentions that Graea was the name of the ancient city of Tanagra.[25] Cumae, a city lying to the west of Neapolis (now Naples) and south of Rome, was founded by Cymaeans and Chalkideans as well as Graeans who by coming into contact with Romans may very well be responsible for naming all Hellenic speaking tribes Graeci. The modern Italian city of Grai was also founded in antiquity by Graeans.




The concept of Hellene for a person of Greek origin was already well established since the late Middle Ages, but for the majority of the population, especially those in rural areas away from urban centers, the dominant perception was still that of a Roman, a descendant of the Byzantine Empire. Scholar Rigas Feraios called "Bulgars and Arvanites, Armenians and Romans" to rise in arms against the Ottomans.[57] General Makrygiannis recalled a friend asking him: "What say you, is the Roman far away from coming? Are we to sleep with the Turks and awaken with the Romans?"[58]

Greek (Γραικός) was the least popular of the three terms, but interestingly enough received by scholars disproportionately larger attention compared to its popular use. Adamantios Korais, a renowned Greek classicist, justified his preference in A Dialogue between Two Greeks: "Our ancestors used to call themselves Greeks





Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:23 AM
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Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....

by YUGOBULGAROSKATA (no login)

Invitation from the central revolutionary commitee to all Bulgars in Skopje....


VMRO stamp in Bulgarian language..........


The Bulgarian society in Skopje 1870 :


Bulgarian municipality - Prilep

Yu-Bulgars!Bulgaria is your fatherland!


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:01 AM
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AT 800 BC, THE MACEDONIAN ETHNOS HAVE A NAME ! DID THE CITY STATES HAVE A NAME ?

by WHAT WAS THE NAME OF THE CITY STATE ETHNOS ? (no login)

i`m gonna waiting your answers

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:08 AM
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Antio Skopianoproskynhmeno forum

by Kostas (no login)

Farewell, dear forum.
Ana8ema to xrono pou perasa diabazontas tis malakies sas edw mesa.Se afhnw me tous amorfotous "oneliners" sou, ton akathoristou ethikothtas apostath Niko, tous Skopianous filous tou na ton xeirokrotoun, kai tous Ellhnes kai ellhnikhs katagwghs amerikanous sou na propagandizoun to dikaiwma twn Skopianwn sto onoma twn Makedonwn gia xarh ths "eirhnhs", ths "adefosynhs" kai ths "istorikis alitheias".

"Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek culture and civilization".
Ante geia!

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:22 AM
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YG: Stefane h proklhsh pantos isxyei

by Anonymous (no login)

Phgaine na ftiakseis forum "ellhno-makedonikhs filias". Ora na to kleisoume to magazi...

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:26 AM
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Adikeis tov eauto sou...

by "DAI" (no login)

Me auta pou grafeis...

Eisai sigouros oti diabases prosektika to prwto minima tou Nikou?

Dev to vomizw..

O ka8e av8rwpos exei to dikaiwma tou autoprosdiorismou... auto mnv to 3exvas.

To forum gia meva ntav kai eivai megaln pngn plnrofornsns kai proklnsns autwv pou vomiza kai vomizw pou telika 8emeliwvei tekmeriwmeva ta osa pisteuw.

Autoi oi av8rwpoi eivai ta megalutera 8umata tns Balkavikns paravoias. Opws pame 8a mas 3avagivouv Boulgaroi kai 8a ta broume mprosta mas.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:47 AM
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DAI den ta pas kala

by s (no login)

autoi oi anthrwpoi einai boulgaroi.



Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:09 AM
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Einai...

by "DAI" (no login)

Alla sumferon mas einai na min einai!!!

Gia katse na enothoun me tous allous Boulgarous kai na exoun tin anoixti koilada tou Aksiou 80 km apo Thessaloniki kai tha sou po ego...

Mia xara ta paw..

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:29 AM
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Kosta, ypervalleis....

by (Login istor)

Einai men Voulgarikhs katagwghs alla misoun thn katagwgh tous. Apokleietai na ginoun Voulgaroi. Allwste emeis den 8eloume na ginoun, aplws 8eloume na mhn legontai Makedones. An vroume lysh 8a yposthri3oume ton diazwrsmo apo touw Voulgarous. Einai 8ema propagandas.

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:18 PM
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THERE IS NO DOUBT!OFCOURSE THEY ARE!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:11 AM
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Για τελευταία φορά

by Κώστας (no login)

Ποιο δικαίωμα αυτοπροσδιορισμού βρε DAI?Ακούγεστε εδώ μέσα σαν χαλασμένο pick-up, αναμασώντας κάθε ψευδο-ανθρωπιστική ανοησία που σας έχουν σερβίρει οι "makedonci".
Αυτοπροσδιορισμός είναι η απάτη και η παράνοια?Αυτά τα πράγματα είναι πρωτοφανή.
Βρεθήκαμε με απόφαση ευρωπαϊκού δικαστηρίου να απαγορεύεται σε μακεδονικούς συλλόγους της Ιταλίας να φέρουν το όνομα "μακεδονία" εφόσον δεν αυτοπροσδιορίζονται ως ομοεθνείς των Σκοπιανών. Μακεδόνες της διασποράς έχουν πάψει να χρησιμοποιούν αυτό το όνομα γιατί τους περνάνε για Σκοπιανούς άλλοι Έλληνες μετανάστες.
70% της βιβλιογραφίας σε Harvard,Princeton kai Columbia αρνούνται την ελληνική καταγωγή των μακεδόνων.90% αμφισβητεί τη σημαντική παρουσία ελλήνων σε αυτό το χώρο κατά το 19ο αιώνα.
Μας παρουσιάζουν διεθνώς ως καταπατητές της θεσσαλονίκης ακόμη και σε επίσημα έγγραφα των στρατιωτικών αποστολών των ΗΠΑ στα βαλκάνια και εσύ μου μιλάς για αυτοπροσδιορισμούς?

Σε παρακαλώ.Ασχολείστε τόσα χρόνια με αυτά τα θέματα και δεν έχετε καταλάβει ΤΙΠΟΤΑ?

Για ποια θύματα μιλάς?Και οι Γερμανοί του μεσοπολέμου ήταν θύματα με την ίδια λογική.Το ίδιο και οι Σουδήτες.
Σημαίνει αυτό ότι δεν αποτέλεσαν κίνδυνο πρώτου μεγέθους για καμία χώρα?

Και έρχεται τώρα ο Νικος να μας πείσει για τη μακεδονικότητα αυτών των ανθρώπων?να υπερηφανευτεί για την αυτονομιστική δράση του θείου του στην καστοριά και ότι θα έρθει στην μακεδονία να ανιχνεύσει τις ρίζες του?Αν αισθάνεται Έλληνας ας πάει να καταχωνιαστεί κάπου από ντροπή για όσα είπε και το φτύσιμο που έριξε στους μακεδόνες συμπατριώτες του κάθε φορά που μιλούσε για "Μακεδόνες" τύπου Goran.
ή υπερασπίζεσαι τα συμφέροντα και την ακεραιότητα της χώρας σου ή όταν δεν θέλεις να το πράξεις, σωπαίνεις για να μην κάνεις μεγαλύτερη ζημιά.Και πραγματικά δεν βλέπω κανένα λόγο να συνεχιστεί αυτό το forum όταν εδώ υπό τον τίτλο "Μακεδόνες είναι οι Έλληνες" απλά προπαγανδίζεται το "ανθρωπιστικό δράμα" των σκοπιανών που δεν τους αναγνωρίζουμε ως Μακεδόνες.και μάλιστα όλα αυτά από Έλληνες!

Μιλάς για μεγάλη Βουλγαρία.
Ξέρεις πολύ καλά ότι δεν ευνοείται πλέον η δημιουργία μεγάλων,ενιαίων και εθνικά ισχυρών οντοτήτων.
Αντίθετα επιδιώκεται ο κατακερματισμός άυτού του χώρου σε ολοένα μικρότερα, οικονομικώς ασθενέστερα, εσωτερικώς διχασμένα και εθνολογικώς "ομιχλώδη" μορφώματα τύπου "Makedonia"
Αυτά που πρέπει να φοβάσαι είναι τα κρατίδια τύπου fyrom και " τουρκικής δημοκρατίας της βόρειας κύπρου" γιατί αυτά ακριβώς τα κρατίδια συνήθως έχουν πίσω τους πολύ ισχυρότερες δυνάμεις οι οποίες τα χρησιμοποιούν, τα ελέγχουν και τα καθοδηγούν πλήρως.
Προπαγανδίζοντας τις θέσεις των σκοπιανών περί μακεδονισμού στους Έλληνες νομίζεις ότι βλάπτεις τους Βούλγαρους ή ότι προστατεύεις τη χώρα σου?Τότε ας πάψουν να ξοδεύουν τόσα εκατομμύρια δολλάρια για "δωρεές" στο Harvard,Princeton,etc,etc Greek helsinki Monitor και λοιπόν προοδευτικών δυνάμεων ή να στηρίζουν τους αξιότιμους έλληνες καθηγητές τύπου Ricky Van Boeschoten, Karakasidou και Τσιάκαλου.Ας κάνουμε μόνοι μας τη δουλειά αυτή δωρεάν, αφού είναι αυτή η λύση και δεν το είχαμε καταλάβει τόσο καιρό....
Ήταν τιμή μου η συζήτηση μαζί σου, όμως δεν βλέπω κανένα λόγο να συνεχίσω να ασχολούμαι με αυτή την ξεφτίλα εδώ μέσα.
Αντίο

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:58 AM
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FILE! H LUSH EINAI MIA! "ELEFTHERIA H THANATOS" AKOMA MIA FORA!

by D (no login)

D

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:13 AM
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Καμία τελευταία φορά...

by "DAI" (no login)

Αύριο πάλι εδώ θα είσαι..

Που λες... ο Μακεδονισμός είναι και Ελληνική εφεύρεση... βλέπεις κι εμάς μας βόλευε η αποΒουλγαροποίηση των Βουλγάρων τότε (πρώτο μισό του 20ου αιώνα).

Για τον ίδιο λόγο δεχθήκαμε την διδασκαλία στα Τούρκικα των Πομάκων μήπως και μας Βουλγαρίσουν και πάλι.

Έχω σπίτι μου χάρτη του παππού μου από τα 1925 (στρατιωτική γεωγρσαφία στη σχολή ευελπίδων) που αναφέρεται σε 80.000 Σλάβους της Μακεδονίας ή αλλιώς "Μακεδόνες".. την ίδια εποχή που οι Σέρβοι εγκατέλειπαν τις προσπάθειές τους να τους πείσουν ότι είναι Σερβοι..

Σε άλλο χάρτη του 1947 οι ίδιοι αναφέρονται ως Βούλγαροι! Και μην ακούσω τίποτε για τον παππού μου που ήταν υπασπιστής του Κατσιμήτρου στην Πίνδο και αρχιΔεξιός στον εμφύλιο.

Τελοσπάντων βλέπεις μια ομάδα πληθυσμού την οποία έχουν δοκιμάσει να την εκσερβίσουν, επαναβουλγαροποιήσουν (1914-1918 και 1941-1944) και εξελληνίσουν ή να καταδιώξουν ως Βούλγαρους λόγω της γλώσσας τους.

Ε και αυτοί τι να κάνουν, ασπάστηκαν τον τοπικισμό τους που έντεχνα ενισχύθηκε από Τίτο και έγιναν "Μακεδονικώτεροι των Μακεδόνων" όπως οι γενίτσαροι γίνονταν Οθωμανικώτεροι των Οθομανών.

Τα ίδια μπορείς να δεις και στην Κύπρο σήμερα.. Πολλοί λένε αρκετά με Έλληνες, Τούρκους, κτλ κτλ.. είμαστε Κύπριοι, με τις επεμβλασεις σας μας έχετα πρήξει και να πάτε να πνιγείτε..

Επειδή παρεξηγήθηκα σε σχέση με αυτό που είπα με το δικαίωμα του αυτοπροσδορισμού.. εννοούσα τον ατομικό. Επειδή το έχω συζητήσει και με "Σκοπιανούς" (αυτό τι είναι πάλι αν όχι μια προσβολή εκ μέρους των Ελλήνων εις βάρος τους τους έχω εξηγήσει ότι σέβομαι τον αυτοχαρακτηρισμό τους ως τέτοιους αλλά δεν μπορώ να δεχθώ την ύπαρξη άλλης Μακεδονικής οντότητας εκτός της ευρύτερης Ελληνικής και ό,τι υπάρχει πρόβλημα "ορισμών" όπως γράφω και πιο πάνω: http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138320863/Some+quick+notes ...

Αυτά που λες εσύ είναι περιπτώσεις που αφορούν ομάδες ανθρώπων και φυσικά ως τέτοιοι "Μακεδόνες" δεν υφίστανται άλλοι εκτός από τους Έλληνες Μακεδόνες.

Το θέμα είναι πως θα τους προσεγγίσουμε για να τους κάνουμε δικούς μας. Η κάρτα του αντιΒουλγαρισμού τους είναι πολύ ισχυρή και πάμε καλά σε αυτό. Με το να προσπαθούμε να τους πείσουμε ό,τι είναι Βούλγαροι (άλλο αν είναι!) τους στέλνομε στην αγκαλιά της Βουλγαρίας.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:39 AM
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Προσπάθησα να εξηγήσω και στον Τόνι

by Anonymous (no login)

Μια σημείωση: άλλο σλαβόφωνος και άλλο Σλάβος.Στην ελληνική βιβλιογραφία υπάρχει μεγάλη σύγχηση.Κάνοντας αναφορές σε συλλογικές "σλαβομακεδονικές" ταυτότητες διαιωνίζουν την αμάθεια.

Στο Στρεμπενο δυτικής Μακεδονίας π.χ. οι κάτοικοι έχουν καταγωγή από Βόλο και Άγραφα περιοχές δίχως σλαβική παρουσία.
όμως μέχρι πριν μερικές δεκαετίες είχαν υιοθετήσει τα σλαβικά ως μητρική γλώσσα.Σλαβική γλώσσα δεν σημαίνει και σλαβική καταγωγή.
Επίσης, Άλλα είναι τα σλαβικά στη φλώρινα και άλλα στην Έδεσσα.Ακόμη και μέσα στη φλώρινα τα μιλάνε αλλιώς μεταξύ τους.Διαφορετικές ομάδες μεταξύ τους.Δεν καταλαβαίνονται.Ακόμη και για είδη καθημερινής χρήσης δεν έχουν κοινή λέξη.Το κουτάλι π.χ. είναι για άλλους lasitza kai gia άλλους bulela.
Όσο για τη γλώσσα των σκοπίων αυτή είναι καθαρά τεχνητό κατασκεύασμα.Αυτό είναι που προσπάθησα να πω στον τόνυ όταν έγραφε συλλήβδην για "σλαβόφωνους μακεδόνες".
Όταν έγινε ο β' Παγκόσμιος οι ελληνικές αρχές μοίραζαν προκηρύξεις "Βούλγαρε πάρε τα όπλα και υπερασπίσου τη χώρα σου"
Όλοι δηλαδή σε ένα τσουβάλι.Μαζί και οι Έλληνες φλωρινιώτες.Για αυτό λοιπόν άσε τα βιβλία των στρατιωτικών σχολών.Μάθε επίσης, πως
Όταν πήγαιναν μετανάστες στην αμερική και έμπαιναν σε ελληνική εκκλησία οι παπάδες εκεί συνήθως ήταν από πελοπόνησο, οπότε τους ρωτούσαν: "από πού είσαι εσύ?Μακεδονία?(εδώ ξύνιζαν τα μούτα τους.και τι γλώσσα μιλάς?Α!!!μα εσύ δεν είσαι έλληνας.Έχει βουλγαρική εκκλησία απέναντι".
Στην εκκλησία μάλιστα που ήταν παπάς ο πατέρας του George Stefanopoulos, έβγαινε στο τέλος της λειτουργίας και έψελνε με ένα δίσκο για χρήματα"Δίνετε να σας ευλογεί ο θεός.Να φτιάξετε δική σας εκκλησία να μην πιάνετε τα στασίδια που είναι για τους Έλληνες"
Κάτσε ακόμα και σκέψου γιατί η "σκοπιανή" ταυτότητα αναπτύχθηκε κυρίως σε αυτούς που υπέστησαν την πολιτική καθοδήγηση του Κ.Κ.Ε.Διάβασες τα δημαγωγικά δημοσιεύματά τους που παρέθεσα στον Στέφανο.
Πού είχε ξανακούσει ο άσχετος και αμόρφωτος αγρότης στα σύνορα περί μακεδονικού έθνους?
Τα τοπικά όργανα του κόμματος είχαν αναλάβει την προώθηση μιας πολύ συγκερκιμένης πολιτικής η οποία είχε προ-αποφασιστεί από την κομιντερν.Ακόμη και ημερολόγια που απεικόνιζαν τις ενωμένες τρεις μακεδονίες τύπωναν και τα μοίραζαν προς διασπορά ζιζανίων στους χωρικούς.
Ο οπαδός του Κ.Κ. που μετεξελίχτηκε σε "σλαβομακεδόνα" είχε λοιπόν υποστεί καταπίεση, ενώ ο δεξιός που μετεξελίχτηκε σε βούλγαρο όχι?
Και γιατί άλλοι παρέμειναν έλληνες?κάτι λείπει λοιπόν από την κοσμοθεωρία σου.




Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:28 AM
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WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS! OTAN EISAI SLAVOFONOS SHNITHOS EISAI SLAVOS!BECAUSE YOU HAVE SLAVIC

by CONSCIENCE! (no login)

X

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:52 AM
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The truth is that this forum can be more meaningfull! something has to change!

by d (no login)

d

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:26 AM
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FILE! EAN OI PROGONOIMAS EIXAN TO DIKOSOU THAROS!YPOMONH!ORAMA! ELLADA DEN THA YPHRXE!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:33 AM
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Κώστα,πρώτη φορά σε διαβάζω και απορώ γιατί δεν σε έχω διαβάσει πρίν.Νομίζω ότι πρέπει να

by AlexandrosThessalonikiMakedoniaEllada (no login)

μείνεις γιατί ο "χορός καλά κρατεί" και επειδή την ραστώνη των τελευταίων 50 χρόνων πρέπει να τη αναπληρώσουμε και να προλάβουμε το τραίνο.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 6:46 AM
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AKRIBWS!

by B (no login)

B

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 3:16 PM
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DIKAIOMA TWN SKOPIANWN? TI ENOEIS??

by Q (no login)

propagandizoun to dikaiwma twn Skopianwn sto onoma twn Makedonwn gia xarh ths "eirhnhs", ths "adefosynhs" kai ths "istorikis alitheias".


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:17 AM
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SLAVOGLYFTRA ESU EISAI!!NA PAS TO KALO!&KALO TAXIDI!

by S (no login)

S

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 4:48 AM
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Response to the filoskopianoi Nikos-Feniks-Goran

by Kostas (no login)


http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138276841/Is+The+Forum+Owners+Name++Sideris...---
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138222166/Goran+is+a+MACEDONIAN%21

Sho gluposti se ovie be!!! Sram na tebe fyro-zombies!!!
jas sum Macedonec od Kastoria.Feniks, povekje Macedonec sum od tebe. Jas ziveem i rabotam tuka vo
Makedonija (vo Grcija, ako site znaat deka: Makedonija=Grcija) ama ti
kaj si i kaj ziveesh i rabotish?
Zoshto be ne sakate i vie da
bidete Grcite? I sho barate na forumo? Ajde, nazad na Skopjenistan!
Ajde mrsh!

Kostas -Macedonec od glaa do peti





Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:02 AM
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Re: Response to the filoskopianoi Nikos-Feniks-Goran

by Anonymous (no login)


http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138276841/Is+The+Forum+Owners+Name++Sideris...---
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138222166/Goran+is+a+MACEDONIAN%21

Sho gluposti se ovie be!!! Sram na tebe fyro-zombies!!!
jas sum Macedonec od Kastoria.Feniks, povekje Macedonec sum od tebe. Jas ziveem i rabotam tuka vo
Makedonija (vo Grcija, ako site znaat deka: Makedonija=Grcija) ama ti
kaj si i kaj ziveesh i rabotish?
Zoshto be ne sakate i vie da
bidete Grcite? I sho barate na forumo? Ajde, nazad na Skopjenistan!
Ajde mrsh!

Kostas -Macedonec od glaa do peti


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:24 AM
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Da Ti Go Ebam Plemeto Tursko

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

Ti ne si Makedonec, ti si edno divo, mrsno, Tursko kuche.

'Kostas' = 'Istor' = 'iPontus'


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:21 AM
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I think you confuse names & persons here...

by Nikos (no login)

...Nikos & Nikos.

BYE!
Nikos

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:18 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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Nikos, if Greeks do not have any Human Rights protection

by s (no login)

Over the name Macedonia and the Slavs do, then you are not only biased but also a peice of filth.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:24 PM
from IP address 138.217.124.111


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Of course they have. (A tip from me: don't jump that easily at the bandwagon...)

by Nikos (no login)

...against me.)

Nikos

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:17 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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Skopjeans stick together. Greeks are fighting each other.

by Pericles (no login)

Skopjeans stick together but Greeks are fighting each other here on this forum.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:07 PM
from IP address 212.152.28.115


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Stefane

by Kostas (no login)

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138277241/answer

I insist that any Greek who uses the term Macedonian in such a way is an ignorant.Nikos is a traitor of the cause declared in this website, because he insists on using the name "macedonian" the way he does with Goran and then tries to develop (a rather unsuccessful) argumentation to persuade others of Goran's "macedonianess".Είναι εντελώς ανάλγητος σε ζητήματα που αφορούν την εθνική ακεραιότητα της χώρας μου και από ο,τι είπα για αυτόν δεν παίρνω πίσω ούτε λέξη.Αυτός είναι ο πρώτος που εξαπέλυσε προσωπικούς χαρακτηρισμούς.Όχι εγώ.
θυμάμαι πάρα πολύ καλά ότι είχατε πέσει να φάτε ζωντανό εκείνον τον ανήλικο Σέρβο πριν μερικά χρόνια επειδή αποκαλούσε τους Σκοπιανούς "μακεδόνες".
Μέχρι και την πολιτική Μιλόσεβιτς του είχατε χρεώσει! και τώρα θα μου πεις ότι πρέπει να αποδεχτώ τις μειοδοτικές θέσεις του Νίκου αδιαμαρτύρητα?Τουλάχιστον ας ήταν συνεπής με όσα πιστεύει και ας μην διαμαρτυρόταν που του "έκλεψαν το όνομα Νίκος"
Αυτό του επεσήμανα και με έβρισε.Αν είχε αποδεχτεί τον όρο "Σλαβομακεδόνας" ή τον σλαβικό όρο "Makedonci" που χρησιμοποιούν στη γλώσσα αυτή (όχι όμως τον όρο Macedonian που είναι πολύ ευρύτερος), κατ 'οικονομίαν και για ορισμένες περιπτώσεις φίλων που σέβονταν την ιστορική αλήθεια, τότε θα ήμουν πολύ περισσότερο διαλλακτικός απέναντί του.Προσωπικά τον όρο Makedonci ton χρησιμοποίησα σε μία μόνο περίπτωση, εν μέρει ελληνικής καταγωγής φίλων από Μοναστήρι.

Περί υπερ-πατριωτών ΝΑΖΙ τώρα.....Μήπως θα θέλατε να συζητήσουμε για την στάση των διεθνιστών "συντρόφων" όταν υπεγράφη το σύμφωνο Ρίμπεντροπ μεταξύ Σοβιετικών και ΝΑΖΙ????
Προδότες υπήρξαν από όλες τις πολιτικές παρατάξεις, με μία βασική διαφορά.ΔΕΝ ΕΔΡΑΣΑΝ ΟΛΟΙ ΕΝΟΠΛΩΣ ΚΑΙ ΑΠΟΣΧΙΣΤΙΚΑ.Κάποιοι από τη μία παράταξη έδειξαν συγκατάβαση προς τις κατοχικές δυνάμεις επειδή πίστεψαν ότι έτσι θα γλιτώσουν τη χώρα από τον ακρωτηριασμό και την πλήρη σύντριβη.Άλλοι ως γνήσιοι πατριδοκάπηλοι είδαν την κατάλληλη ευκαιρία για να ανέλθουν κοινωνικά και οικονομικά -έστω και αν αυτό σήμαινε ακρωτηριασμ΄΄ο της χώρας.
Οι χειρότεροι όμως όλων ήταν εκείνοι που φόρεσαν τον μανδύα του διεθνιστή και προπαγάνδισαν τη δημιουργία ενός αυτόνομου μακεδονικού έθνους για "ανθρωπιστικούς" λόγους και για χάρη της δικαιοσύνης.
Θέλετε ένα μικρό δείγμα?

".... «Το ΚΚΕ από το 1918 έως το 1926» (Άθ. 1947, σελ. 343-345).

Ανεξαρτησία στη Μακεδονία και στη Θράκη : Ή ντόπια κεφαλαιοκρατία... καταπιέζει τις εθνικές μειονότητες στη Μακεδονία και ατή Θράκη... ή ελληνική πλουτοκρατία καταδυναστεύει ένα μέρος του μακεδόνικου και θρακικού λαού, κρατώντας με το σίδερο και τη φωτιά τη μακεδόνικη και θρακική χώρα στην υποταγή της. Δίχως την καταπίεση του μακεδόνικου και θρακικού λαού, δίχως την καταπίεση των ξένων εθνών, της είναι αδύνατο να δυναμώσει επάνω μας τον κοινωνικό της ζυγό. Ή ντόπια μπουρζουαζία είναι εθνικός δυνάστης και καταπιεστής του μακεδόνικου και θρακικού λαού και συγχρόνως ο κοινωνικός δυνάστης της εργατικής τάξεως και των φτωχών αγροτικών και προσφυγικών μαζών. Αν δεν συντρίψουμε τον εθνικό ζυγό της ντόπιας μπουρζουαζίας πού βαρύνει στη Μακεδονία και στη Θράκη, δεν μπορούμε να τσακίσουμε τον κοινωνικό ζυγό της ίδιας μπουρζουαζίας πού βαρύνει επάνω σε μας. Δεν μπορούμε αλλιώτικα να γλιτώσουμε από τους κατακτητικούς και ιμπεριαλιστικούς πολέμους πού ξεσπούν εις βάρος μας εν όσο εξακολουθεί ή σημερινή κατάσταση του διαμελισμού και της καταπιέσεως της Μακεδονίας και Θράκης από τη Βαλκανική και Τουρκική μπουρζουαζία.
Να γιατί αγωνιζόμαστε εναντίον των εξοπλισμών, εναντίον των πολέμων πού προετοιμάζει ή κεφαλαιοκρατία, εναντίον της εθνικής καταπιέσεως και του βίαιου εκπατρισμού. Να γιατί αγωνιζόμαστε για την ένωση των τριών τμημάτων της Μακεδονίας και Θράκης και για ενιαία και ανεξάρτητη κρατική τους ύπαρξη..
Ζήτω η εργατοαγροτική επανάσταση της Βουλγαρίας!
Ζήτω ή ανεξάρτητη Μακεδονία και Θράκη!
Ζήτω η "Ομοσπονδία των Βαλκανικών εργατοαγροτικών δημοκρατιών!
Ζήτω η Παγκόσμιος Προλεταριακή επανάσταση.
Αθήναι 3 Δεκεμβρίου 1924 Το Προεδρείο»
-------------------------------------------
Ό Γραμματεύς του τρίτου εκτάκτου συνεδρίου του ΚΚΕ, Π. Πουλιόπουλος, σε ενυπογραφο άρθρο του στον «Ρίζοσπάστη» (14 Δεκ. 1924) με τίτλο: «Το Μακεδόνικο ηφαίστειο» γράφει:
«Οι Μακεδόνες εργάτες και χωρικοί, αδιακρίτως καταγωγής, κάτω από το ζυγό της Βαλκανικής μπουρζουαζίας που τους μοιράστηκε, παρ' όλες τις προσπάθειες των διαφόρων εθνικιστικών προπαγανδών, εξακολουθούν να συνδέονται μεταξύ τους με κοινή συνείδηση.
Ποθούνε και αγωνίζονται να ξαναενώσουν τα τρία τμήματα της διαμελισμένης των πατρίδος και ν' αποχτήσουν ενιαία και κρατική ανεξάρτητη ύπαρξη. Το ίδιο συμβαίνει και με το Θρακικό λαό , ο οποίος είναι διαμοιρασμένος από την Τουρκική, Βουλγαρική και Ελληνική μπουρζουαζία. Ό απελευθερωτικός αγώνας των καταπιεζομένων λαών της Μακεδονίας και Θράκης, είναι αγώνας κατά του ιμπεριαλισμού και της υποτελούς του Βαλκανικής μπουρζουαζίας».

----------------------------------------------------
Στη «Κομμουνιστική Επιθεώρηση» (1 Μαρτίου 1947, σελ. 305-306) διαβάζουμε ότι ο Μακεδόνικος λαός «στέναξε κάτω από τόσους ζυγούς σκλαβιάς» όπως ήταν «οι Έλληνες κομιτατζήδες οπλαρχηγοί Παυλομελάδες και καπετάν Βαρδαΐοι, Τσόντοι και Γαρέφηδες του έσφιγγαν την θηλειά στο λαιμό» !
----------------------------------------------

Αυτά τα λίγα περί πατριδοκάπηλων "υπερ-πατριωτών" και ξεπουλημένων, "διεθνιστών" δημαγωγών.Οι πρώτοι δικαίως στιγματίστηκαν, οι δεύτεροι χρίστηκαν ήρωες.....Τελικά ότι δεν πέτυχαν οι "σύντοφοι" θα το πετύχουν τώρα οι "προοδευτικοί" όπως εσύ και ο "φίλος' Νίκος.

Κάνετε τη χάρη στους εαυτούς σας και προτείνετε την κατάργηση αυτού του forum.Το ζήτημα του ονόματος και της σκοπιανής προπαγάνδας το ξεπουλήσατε.το forum αυτό δεν έχει λόγο ύπαρξης πλέον.Πηγαίνετε να φτιάξετε ένα άλλο. Σας προτείνω τον τίτλο "ΦΟΡΟΥΜ ελληνο-μακεδονικής φιλίας".
Να δεις τότε πώς θα σας αγαπήσει ο Γκόραν και ο Peter.Μέχρι και ο Pelister ίσως σας συμπαθήσει κάπως!





Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:53 PM
from IP address 212.54.216.193


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SIGA MHPWS O BUSH DIAVAZE AUTO TO FORUM!OTAN ANAGNWRISE THN FYROM W'S MAKEDONIA!

by H (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 1:10 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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MACEDONIAN compared to English, Kalashi, Khowar, Nuristani, Hindi-Urdu and Pashtu

by mkont (no login)


hmmmmm...........Macedonian looks like a 'connecting' language between indo and english





English Kalasha Khowar Nuristani Hindi-Urdu Pashtu
MACEDONIAN

body Che qalip jith jism badan
TELO



head shish kapal she sar sar
GLAVA



hair chawar phur zhu bal wextu
KOSA




face ru mox naskor chehra max
LICHEH (MOUCHKA = MOUTH/KISSER)




eye ech ghech ache akh starga
OKO (plural OCHI)





ear ka kar kor ekkan ghwag
EUCHI plural


nose nast neskar naso nak poza
NOZ



mouth ashi apak ashi muh zolu
OUSTA



tooth dandorik don duth ekdat ghax
ZAB


tounge jiph ligini dits zaban jiba
YASIK (ZAB = tooth)



breast chuchu pap chuk chati sina
TITSKA



belly kuch shkama kutal pet xeta
STOMAK




arm/hand baza bazu gotar bazu las
RAMA



elbow harkin kurkun apti kohni sangal







palm pe phan dushpar hatheli tale







finger agu chamut ayu ungli gota
PIRST





fingernail nanguzhek dughur nachi naxun nukh





leg khur dek zapo tan xpaq
NOGA




skin post phost chum jidl sarman
KOZHA



bone athi kol ati hadi aduke
KOSKA (KOLINO = knee)


heart hia hardi ziri dil zaru
SERCHEH



blood lui lei lui xun wina
KERF


urine mutra miru tsuio peshab mutiaze
MOCH





feces rich rich gii puxana dake-mutiaze
LINA; LEPESKA; GHOMNO



village grom deh grom gau kale
SELO



house dur dur amu ghar kor
KOUIKA (DOMA = home)




roof drami istan krum chat chath
CHATAR = umbrella



door dur dowaht du darwaza war
VRATA


firewood shula dar da lakri largi




broom shashkoni mazhini ska jharu jaru
METLA





mortar dipa andor aru langri langarei
GIPS





pestle muso musul wo hathi chetu




hammer balka chota budil hathera satak
CHEKAN



knife chaku chaku chaku chaqu chaku
NOJZE




axe badok bardox wuza kulhara tabar
SEKIRA




rope rajuk shimeni mina rasi pare





thread sutr sutur pchiche dhaga tar
KHONETS




needle suzhik shunj chimchich sui stan
IGLA






cloth chelegar zap pizisna kapra kapra
KERPA





ring angushtyer pulungushtu angishti anguthi gota
PIRSTEN (see finger above)




sun suri yor su suraj nwar
SONCE




moon mastruk mas mos chand spogmai
MESECHINA





sky di asman asma asman asman





star tari istari rushto sitara store






rain piliwe boshik agol baris baran
DOGSCH; VERNI = raining





water ukh ugh o pani ubu
VODA




river patisholi sin nao darya sind
REKA



cloud minji kot naru badal waryaz
NEBLI



lighting indochik bilpak dashpulsela bijili prakigi




rainbow indru dronhanu indro quzah tal



wind sira gan dimi hawa hawa
VETAR



stone bath boht wat pathar kane
KAMEN




path pon pon puth rasta lar
PAAT




sand shigo shughur tsuyu ret shaga
PAISOK





fire angar angar ango ag our
OGAN




smoke thum kushun dyum dhua luge
CHAD (DHUMI = to blow smoke; DUMEN = dingy; TEMNO = dark; faint)




ash shutik pheru asi rakh ira




mud tuk toq shur kichar xata
KAL



dust khatur gihth paras miti gard




gold sue sorum sun sona zar
ZLATNO



tree muth kan kanu daraxt wana
DERVO



leaf pu chan pur pata pana
LISYA



root iznos iwak lu jhar jarare
KORA




thorn chuk zux tai kata azghe



flower gamburi gamburi pish phul gwal
CVEYKEH



fruit mewa mewa miwa phal mewa
FRUITA



mango am am am am am




banana kela kela kila kela kela




wheat ghum gom gum gehu ghanam
GHOMNO = feces - see above


millet ain gras ro bajra warbashi




rice grinzh grinj mo chawal wrije
ORICE




potato alu alu aluk alu alu




eggplant khalia patigan banjon baenan tor-batingar




groundnut bum-pali mum-phali mom-phali mun-phali mumpali






chili mach mahch murch mirch marchake





turmeric zechawa zehchawa zarchawa haldi kurkaman




garlic weshnu wrezhnu wezhnu lehsan uga



onion kachenduk trashtu cheknuk piaz piaz
KROMIT



cauliflower gobi gobi gulpi gobi gobi




tomato patingel patingel patingal tamatar sur-batingar
PATLIJANI; DOMATI





oil tel tel til tel tel
MASLO




salt lu trup zhukh namak malga
SOL




meat mos phushur bete gosht ghwaxa
MESO





fat me ghap ske cherbi wazda
DEBELO




fish matsi matsi omatsa machli kab
RIBA






chicken kakawak kahak kok murghi charga
KOKKOSCKA




egg ayukun ayukun puduk anda hu
YAYCHEH



cow gakh leshu go gae ghwa
CRAVA (VOL = bull)



buffalo gamesh gamesh mashigo bhes mexa




milk chhir chhir zu dudh pe
MLEKO (CERENEH = cheese)



horns shin surung shin sing xkar





tail dameri rum demee dum lake
OPASHKA



goat pai pai washi bakri biza
KOZA




dog shua reni kui kuta spe
KUCHEH



snake gokh ai bibimsta saap mar
ZMEIJYA




monkey meka mukul maka bandar bizo
MAIMUN




mosquito trakmangash kagunu tarak machar mashe




ant pililak pilili ramikh chiuti mege




spider upalak shubinak parkemuk makri jola
PAIJAK



name nom nam nom nam num
EMEH


man much mosh manshi admi sare
MASCH




woman istizha kimeri jukur urat xaza
ZHENA




child suda tsiq pirmi bacha mashum
DECHA; DETI





father dada tat to bap plar
TATKO



mother aya nan nu ma mor
MAYKA




brother baya brar bro bhai ror
BROTHER





sister baba ispisar sus bahen xor
SISTRA (BABA = grandmother)




son putr zhao pitr beta zwe
SEEN





daughter chu zhur jukh beti lur
KEYRKA




husband beru mosh mach shohar xawand
MASH




wife ja bok shtiri bivi xaza
ZHENA






boy purushguek daq midi larka halak
DETEH




girl shtrizhaguek kumoru jukh larki jine
CHOUPEH





day bas anus gijur din wraz
DEN




night rat chhui radur rat shpa
NOICHYA




morning adua chhuchhi puchkul subah sahar
SABAYLEH


noon hulukuna granish grish dopaher gharma





afternoon chakdiwio sham shom sham maxam



yesterday dosh dosh dus kal parun
FCHERA (DOSH = to come back!; rain)



today oja hanun shirakgijur aj nan
DENES


tomorrow chopo pengachui dalke ainda-kal saba
UTREH (SABEYLEHLETO = "tomorrow morning"!)


week sat-bas hafta agar hafta hafta
NEDELA (NEDELA also = Sunday)



month mastruk mas mos mihana miasht
MESECH



year kao sal si sal kal
GODINA



old shumberan paranu syuma purana zor
STAR(O)






new noa nogh nui nea nawe
NOVA




good prusht jam lasta acha xu
DOBRO; AREN




bad shum shum digar xarab xarab
LOSHO



wet grila zah zheli bhiga lund
VODENO




dry shushta ChuChhu drisht xushk wach
ISUCHENO




long driga drung darga lamba ugud
DOLGO


short betsak iskurdi moti chota lund
NISK



hot tapala pech pech garam tod
TOPLO; PECHI; GORI




cold osh ushak yuz thanda yax
STUDENO; MRAZ = icy



right drach hoski dachin dae xe
TOCHNO = correct; DESNO = right-hand; PRAVO = correct



left kawri kholi ka bae gas
LEVO





near shoiuna shoi tevire qarib nizde
BLIZU






far desha duderi badyur dur lare
DALEKU




big gada Lot alr bara ghat
GOLEMO; MNOGU





small chutyak tsiq parmi chota warkote
MAL; NISKO = short




heavy anguraka qai gamwo bhari drund
TESHKO; MNOGU = a lot




light lots lots luka halka spak
LESNO = light load




above tara sora ula upar uchat
OD GORA





below nuna mula viri niche lande
POHT





white goirak shpiru kashir sufed spin
BELO



black krizhna sha zhi kala tor
CHERNO (KALESHO = dark)






red lachia krui za lal sur
CHERVENO (compare 'krui' here and 'krizhna' above and compae 'cher' in Macedonian)




one ek i ew ek yao
EDEN; EDNO (SAMO = alone; only)





two du ju dui do dwa
three tre troi tere tin dre
four chao Chor shtewo char salor
five poin poch puch pach pinza
six sho Chhoi shu che shpag
seven sat sot suth sat uwe
eight asht usht ushth ath atu
nine no niu nu nao naha
ten dash jush duts das las
eleven dashyega sushi yanits gyara yaolas
twelve dashyedua johju dits bara dolas
twenty bishi bishir vatsi bis shal
one-hundred shor shor putsi ekso sal





who kura ka katsi kun sok
KOI




what kia kiagh kai kya su
SHO



where kawa kura kor kidhar charta
KADEH



when kayo kiawaht koi kab kala
KOGA




how-many kimon kanduri chuk kitne somra
KOIKU



which kure kiwali gajista kensa kam
KOIYEH




this ia haya eni ye da
OVO



that se hes iki wo agha
THO



these emi hamit amni ye da
OVEIYEH




those eli het amki wo agha
ONEIYEH



same barubar barabar erngest ekhi yaoshan
EISTO; LICHNO





whole taza pura pura mukamal rogh
CHIELO





broken chhina Chhirdu patingusti tuta mat
SCKRCHENO



few chutyak kam echok thora lag
MALU




many bo bo baluk ziada der
MNOGU





all sao saf tsak sab tol
SEITEH




eat zhuk zhibik yu tumkhao xoral
YADI




bite ashato oyoi atushio katna chichal
KIUSNI; KASNI (late = KASNO)




hungry anora Chuyi io bhukh lagna
GLADEN




drink pi pik pi pina skal
PI





thirsty dan trush opi lagna kedal






sleep dudi oreik prush sona udakedal
SPEE





lay drekda porik chi letna samlastal
LEGHI


lie = LAIGHI - MK (to tell a fib)
lie down = LEGHI; LEGNI





sit nas nishik nis baethna kenastal
SEDNI



give pra dik pre dena warkawal
DADI




burn upweik paleik lush jalana talargi
GORI (PALI = to light)




die anashi brik misi marna mrakedal
UMRI





kill nash mareik jai marna wajal
OPERI; KOLI = to cull



fly upul ulik undr urna alwatal
LETA


walk! kasi kosik esti chalna paidalarsha
BARIH; PESHKI; PATI (KASNO = LATE; running late etc)




run adyae deik achu durna mandawahal
TERCHI



go par bik etu jana talal
ODI (walk = BARIH)



come a gik hatsi ana ratlal
DOYDI



speak ama ludik wila bolna wayal
SBORI;




heard sanga kara singa suna awredal
SLUSHNA




see pashi poshik waa dekhna katal
PULI; VIDI




I a awa uts mae zu
YAS


you tu tu twi tum tu
TI



you-(formal) tu tu twi ap taso
TI



he/she asa hes iki vo hagha
we abi spa imu ham munga
you-(plural) abi pisa sho tum taso
they eli het amki vo haghwi


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:10 PM
from IP address 69.192.25.111


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Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The populatio

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian.
"Our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians"

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:57 PM
from IP address 212.183.55.122


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One final response to "Nikos"

by Anonymous (no login)

Συγκεκριμένες απαντήσεις στα ερωτήματα που σου έθεσα ΔΕΝ έλαβα.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138228695/I+challenge+Greeks+here+to+take+a+stand+against+the+traitor
http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138235057/Re-+Hey+DUMB+human+you-+-+READ-
Συνέχισε να πιστεύεις ότι τα Σκόπια kai to Γκόστιβαρ είναι στη 'μακεδονία του Αιγαίου' και θα τα πας πολύ καλά με τον Goran....Άριστα!

Any "Greek" who calls this salad of unidentified ethnicities as "Macedonians",thus SPITTING IN THE FACE OF HIS MACEDONIAN COMPATRIOTS, is simply IGNORANT and ILLITERATE.

(I 'm greatful to the other "nikos" who used your name in such a way.You tasted a small pinch of the insult,the anger, the injustice which every real, self-aware macedonian experiences every day of his life).

Furthermore, if this "Greek" appears in a forum under the title "Makedonia: 4000 years of Greek civilization and Culture" to propagate the myth of Macedonian nation with a slavic character and a Macedonian language, using classical Skopian arguments and propaganda, then this "Greek" is simply a TRAITOR.
NO "BUTS", NO "IFS".
If the individual in question takes one step further ahead and starts boasting for his autonomist uncle, while the Skopians are clapping chearfully,saying that he's trying to trace his non-greek roots in "Kostur", then this person suffers from a very serious identity crisis.Such persons were called APOSTATES in Macedonia and have been well described in Yannas testimony:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/22270/message/1138148046/Nikolaki%2BGoran%2C+who+inspires+you+the+most-

Cases like the one above, regarding ignorant American,Canadian,(German) citizens of unidentified national identity, lured by "nice" Yugo-Skopian "friends" I have seen many times in the past.

Dear Nikos, I have absolutely NO REMORSE for calling you a TRAITOR (after all, you were the first who started swearing NOT ME).
That's not because of your friends, but because of your politically anti-greek views.And a Greek,using the term "macedonian" in a non-greek context over 9 out of 10 cases in his everyday life or in a Greek forum against skopian propaganda expresses a crystal clear political view....that's politics of the worst kind.


Do yourself a favor and leave this forum.Go to some skopian site to prove your friends' "macedonianness".
Shame on you for your insult against my country.
Είσαι απλά ασυγχώρητος!


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:07 PM
from IP address 212.54.216.193


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At 800BC Homer never Call you Hellenes, 499 BC the name was YAUNA,at the middle Ages the

by ITALIANS CALL YOU GRAECI (no login)

Homer lived many generations after the Trojan War.
The Greeks of the epics didn't describe themselves as Greeks (Hellenes), but as Achaeans, Danaans, etc.
"Before the Trojan war there is no indication of any common action in Hellas, nor indeed of the universal prevalence of the name .... The best proof of this is furnished by Homer. Born long after the Trojan War, he nowhere calls all of them by that name, nor indeed any of them

except the followers of Achilles from Phthiotis, who were the original Hellenes: in his poems they are called Danaans, Argives, and Achaeans"
- Thucydides


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalogue_of_Ships


The Yaunβ in Asia Minor revolted in 499, but they were subjected again. Now, it was clear to the Persian government that the possessions in Asia Minor could be safe only when the Yaunβ in the west were subjected as well.

Two years later, king Darius sent a new expedition to the west. The commanders were Datis and Artaphernes. Herodotus presents the expedition as a punitive action against Eretria and Athens, who had helped the Ionians during their revolt of 499.

The modern English word Greek is derived from Latin Graecus, which in turn comes from Greek Γραικός (Graikos), the name of a Boeotian tribe that migrated to Italy in the 8th century BC, and it is by that name the Hellenes were known in the West. Homer, while reciting the Boeotian forces in the Iliad's Catalogue of Ships, provides the first known reference to a Boeotian city named Graea,[24] and Pausanias mentions that Graea was the name of the ancient city of Tanagra.[25] Cumae, a city lying to the west of Neapolis (now Naples) and south of Rome, was founded by Cymaeans and Chalkideans as well as Graeans who by coming into contact with Romans may very well be responsible for naming all Hellenic speaking tribes Graeci. The modern Italian city of Grai was also founded in antiquity by Graeans.




The concept of Hellene for a person of Greek origin was already well established since the late Middle Ages, but for the majority of the population, especially those in rural areas away from urban centers, the dominant perception was still that of a Roman, a descendant of the Byzantine Empire. Scholar Rigas Feraios called "Bulgars and Arvanites, Armenians and Romans" to rise in arms against the Ottomans.[57] General Makrygiannis recalled a friend asking him: "What say you, is the Roman far away from coming? Are we to sleep with the Turks and awaken with the Romans?"[58]

Greek (Γραικός) was the least popular of the three terms, but interestingly enough received by scholars disproportionately larger attention compared to its popular use. Adamantios Korais, a renowned Greek classicist, justified his preference in A Dialogue between Two Greeks: "Our ancestors used to call themselves Greeks




Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:13 AM
from IP address 72.140.251.131


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He is a realist..not a TRAITOR.

by TPP (no login)

You are living in the dark ages. Get over it.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:32 AM
from IP address 58.105.43.136


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Hahahahahahahahahahaha !!

by (Login istor)

Does this mean that you are Macedonian ??

Hahahahahahahahahaha!!

What is Macedonian on you bre IDIOT ???
You are unable and ashamed to use ANY Macedonian toponyms, tikvar! How dare you to call yourself Macedonian? Are you an unindendified CLOWN ??

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:12 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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Nikos Is More Greek Than You Ever Will Be...

by Feniks Makedonski (no login)

Go bury your head in the sand or live a hermits life in the mountains...

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:25 AM
from IP address 144.131.20.186


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And your words prove it !!

by (Login istor)


Aeinaminanoixwtovrwmostomamou !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Istor
Macedonian, therefore Greek
http://www.network54.com/Forum/448385


Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 5:13 PM
from IP address 194.63.235.157


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You are a shizophren maniac....

by Nikos (no login)

....Furthermore, if this "Greek" appears in a forum under the title "Makedonia: 4000 years of Greek civilization and Culture" to propagate the myth of Macedonian nation with a slavic character and a Macedonian language, using classical Skopian arguments and propaganda, then this "Greek" is simply a TRAITOR.
NO "BUTS", NO "IFS".
If the individual in question takes one step further ahead and starts boasting for his autonomist uncle, while the Skopians are clapping chearfully,saying that he's trying to trace his non-greek roots in "Kostur", then this person suffers from a very serious identity crisis.Such persons were called APOSTATES in Macedonia and have been well described in Yannas testimony:

--->YOU TWIST THINGS BECAUSE SEVERAL POINTS OF YOUR TEXT ABOVE ARE SIMPLY FALSE. F-A-L-S-E. I HAVE NO UNCLE IN "KORITSA". I DON'T USE "SKOPIAN" ARGUMENTS AND SO ON (PROOVE IT WHERE I USE IT) AND SO ON.

THUS YOU ARE SPITTING AGAINST YOUR OWN COUNTRYMEN BECAUSE YOU ARE B-E-L-I-E-V-I-N-G F-A-L-S-E THINGS.

SH_T THE F_CK UP NOW.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 10:15 AM
from IP address 84.59.29.100


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GR-NEWS: Crete arrests linked to illegal adoption ring - Two Bulgarian womens:

by Nikos (no login)

Crete arrests linked to illegal adoption ring

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100020_26/01/2006_65621

Two Bulgarian women — a mother and her daughter — were yesterday charged by a prosecutor in Crete of being involved in an illegal child adoption ring, court sources said.

The women, aged 48 and 25, were arrested in Iraklion on Tuesday on suspicion of being linked to a ring that brings pregnant young Bulgarian women to Greece a few weeks before their due dates. Police said the women are taken to a state hospital to deliver and the ringmasters then put the baby up for adoption. The children are illegally sold to childless couples, officers said.

The 25-year-old woman had recently given birth and was charged with attempting to illegally give up the child for adoption, which is a criminal offense. Her mother was charged with the same crime but was also accused of attempting to profit from the offense.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:51 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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Gypsies, not Bulgarians

by Boris I (no login)

Gypsies with Bulgarian passports...
nothing new from that scum, hope the gaschambers will start burning again

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:14 PM
from IP address 84.162.111.114


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What's the difference?...

by Komita (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 10:37 PM
from IP address 220.237.198.218


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you are the difference :)

by Komitopul (no login)

your mom is a gypsy and your father is a Bulgarian


ps.
Mrsh ma makja si u mirizlivata pichka lajno nepismeno

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:36 PM
from IP address 129.10.72.241


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Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The populatio

by YU-BULGARS!BULGARIA IS YOUR FATHERLAND (no login)

Krste Misirkov 1924: "We are Bulgarian more than the Bulgarians in Bulgaria. The population of Skopje is pure Bulgarian.
"Our fathers, grandfathers, and great grandfathers have always been called Bulgarians"

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 11:58 PM
from IP address 212.183.55.122


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Nazi scum!

by Waingro (no login)

Boris actually there are plenty of Bulgarians in Crete, including many ladies.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:03 AM
from IP address 66.106.241.14


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SYN ATHINA KAI XEIRAN KINEI-etsi theloun oi skopianoi!10 Xronia mas koroideboun!

by MACEDONIA IS HELLENISM-NOT BULGARISM (no login)

y

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:28 PM
from IP address 212.183.55.122


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Stefanos and Nikos: Get off this forum. Now pls.

by Periklis (no login)

Eiste vrukolakes tou kerata.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:40 PM
from IP address 84.60.150.74


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Hey Periklis...

by Nikos (no login)

---STFU please.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:13 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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hahahahahaaaaaaaaaarrrr har har har n/t

by Nikos (no login)

...ti vlakides pou eisaste. tstststs hahahaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAA!

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:15 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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You stop using the nickname "Periklis"

by "DAI" (no login)

Kseftilizeis in poli mou...

Meta na pas na xatheis apo edo... O Nikos kai o Stefanos einai apo tous pio palious edo mesa kai pio eksupnous.

To forum then eivai PROPAGANDISTIKO opos les parakatw. (gia Greekness of Macedonia) alla gia tin Truth (Alitheia)...

Kai n alithia eivai kati pou dev 8a prepei va mas fobizei katalabes?

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:08 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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Hou Hou Hou Houhouli. Geisou re Petro - merakli!

by Periklis (no login)

Skopian Skum -

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:07 PM
from IP address 84.60.162.95


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O skopianos stratos (3 atoma) vazei skata sto prosopo kai kryvete.

by Periklis (no login)

Etsi nizoun pos mporoun na ksefigoun. LATHOs OMOS.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:06 PM
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(http://maknews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10 ) PERIKLI KE ISTOR. RIKSTE MIA MATIA.

by loxias (no login)

http://maknews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:47 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Skopian Skum

by Periklis (no login)

Ante kai na gelasoume me tous tsoglanous.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:22 PM
from IP address 84.60.189.46


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Oi Skopianoi trone skata me rigani, etsi exo akousei.

by Periklis (no login)

Get the dick out of your grandmas mouth - skopithia.
Skopian Skum.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:21 PM
from IP address 84.60.189.46


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ISOS TO PERNOUNE GIA KOKORETSI!

by SKOPSKATA (no login)

<

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:29 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.59


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DEN APOKLIETE. EDO OLI TOUS FTIMOUNE KE AFTI NOMIZOUNE OTI VREXI. hahahahaha

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:49 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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Alithia eh?

by "DAI" (no login)

Posin ora sou pire na skefteis kai na grapseis autes tis anoisies sou?

Oute sto Demotiko den lene pleon tetoies mpourdes gia na prosballoun kapoion alla fainetai merikoi oute Dnmotiko dev exouv paei..

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:14 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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A note on the dividing lines in this forum.

by (no login)

I am probably the oldest surviving member of the original team, and I have seen a lot of ups and downs in this forum. This era is definately one of the worst in many respects. I could't even imagine that the old battles between me and Illiden would be looked upon as a high point of this forum, but at that times we had mostly intelligible conversation and exchange of valid arguments. Not quite a few posts would take more than a page, and they were not exactly copy-paste articles.

One thing for sure, I believe that the volume of responses from each side does dot determine the better side, but the overall quality of posts and the volume of the quality posts does.

Any independent observer who visits this forum would inevitably conclude that if one side is trying to have a valid discussion, and the other is spamming incestantly, then the second side is simply lacking of valid answers and thus it is trying to silence the first side. The situation is even worse if there are some folks from the the second side agree with some points presented from the first side, and then some other folks from the second side are trying to intimidate both those dissents from their side, with spamming.

If any of you wants to have respect, and not to get insulted on an everyday basis, by the majority of the members of this forum, you'd better try to communicate in a civilized manner. Either you like it or not, the major dividing line in this forum is not one nationality against another, but those who can post intelligent posts against those who cannot. All other divisions come in second place.

Alright?

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:19 PM
from IP address 12.43.115.213


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however. i am not the one who claims others land and heritage.therefor i reserve for my

by loxias (no login)

self the right to defend my country`s haritage and national interest by all
means.

Loxias The Makedonian

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:59 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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There are many ways to defend your country..

by "DAI" (no login)

You have chosen the last effective one.. "spamming"...

What is spamming? Who is spamming? He who has no arguments or is not right about something.. By spamming and offending you show that we (Greeks) do not have arguments and therefore we need to offend etc to "make our point"..

You are no better than Foenix..Peder.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:18 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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The soldiers' duty is to guard his country, not to insult his enemies. (right Fenix?)

by (no login)

I have been insulting Fenix much more effectively than most around here. A couple of days ago I found a reference from oner of theirs that proved that they were mistreating the Albanians. I called him a bastard at the very title of my post. He didn't even say a word. The next day Classicist replied to my message, and pounded Fenix as well. Fenix responded to the Classicist with some irrelevant comments, while he commented to another post of mine which said: "Phoenix, I do not hate you, I hate those who make me agree with you", and he tried to convince me that I have no reason to hate him, and that he and his folks are good guys, but I have never known any of them. Of course, this is his opinion.

When I asked Fenix if he considers me a Xenophobic person, long time ago, he didn't respond, and I won't respond to him either. There is no reason after all. I called him a bastard, I cited a reason for that (He has been whining that the Albanians are ungrateful animals for a long time) and he won't dear to throw anything back at me at this phase.

You see, unlike you, I am capable of bringing them down, when I can support my thesis with substantial evidence...

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:26 PM
from IP address 64.110.51.254


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You forgot to add:

by "DAI" (no login)

the two magic words "AS USUAL" to this line of yours Petro:

"Fenix responded to the Classicist with some irrelevant comments"

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:45 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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Petros you make some fine points , but LOXIAS IS ALO CORRECT WHAT THE SKOPES ARE DOING IS

by etan e epitas (no login)

UNFORGIVABLE!! there is no such thing as an unbiased opion or outside opinion in the MACEDONIA ISSUE the historical and archilogical evidece is overwhelming that it is Greek and it has been posted here on more than enough occasions . those who try and didtort the evidence to aid in there own personal agenades do not have Greece`s best interest in mind any non GREEK one who cLAIMS Macedonia history OR HERITAGE AS THIER OWN is an enemy of Greece is and imy opinion desrving of death
monon lave etan e epitas

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 6:39 PM
from IP address 64.12.116.68


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You are right, but you don't pay attention to their grievances.

by (no login)

Although Ancient Macedonia was Greek in practical terms - There were no nations back then, and thus nobody of the Ancient Greeks belonged to any (imaginary) Greek nation.

On the other hand, during the Middle Ages, the Slavs invaded and exterminated a large portion of the Macedonian population. Although this is not something that we should forget, and they don't even ask us for forgiveness, one cannot deny that those people were living in Macedonia for a very long time, almost one and a half thousand years. Many of these were kicked out from Greece violently. Many died, although did not happen in a planned way, but mostly during the Balkan wars and the WWI. They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:34 PM
from IP address 64.110.51.254


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ARE YOU APOLOGISING TO AN INVADOR! EIMASTE ME TA KALAMAS!

by L (no login)

E

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:50 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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`They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?``PETRO KAPOU KAPOU TA MPERDEVIS LIGO.

by loxias (no login)

KALITERA INE OLI AFTI I BASTARDI NA ANIKSOUNE TA MATIA TOUS.
ESI KE O ISTOR ME OLA TA ATRANTAKTA EPIXIRIMATA SAS TI NOMIZIS OTI KATAFERATE;;

I SLVOBOULGAROI VOVOUNTE KE SEVONDE MONO AFTON POU EXI DINAMI KE DEN ASTIEVETE. P.X : VASSILIOS BOULGAROKTONOS TOTE, TO NATO SIMERA.

14 XRONIA SINOMILIES ( TALK FOR THE TALK ) TI APOTELESMA EXOUNE?

OTAN TOUS ANAGNORISANE I AMERIKANI ( EAN I EL. KIVERNISI IXE PI OTI INE EX8RIKI ENERGIA APO SIMAXO XORA, KE IXE ANASTILI TIN LITOURGIA TIS SOUDAS ),
8A STELNAME ENA MINIMA SE OLOUS EX8ROUS KE FILOUS, OTI KAMIA LOUGRA DEN MPORI NA PEKSI ME TA E8NIKA MAS SIMFERONTA. OMOS.... TIN SINEXIA TI KSERIS.

GIA AFTO FILETO KALITERO INE: SI VI PACEM PARABELLUM.

FILIKA

LOXIAS.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:20 AM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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`They have some reasons to hate us, shouldn't they?``PETRO KAPOU KAPOU TA MPERDEVIS LIGO.

by loxias (no login)

KALITERA INE OLI AFTI I BASTARDI NA ANIKSOUNE TA MATIA TOUS.
ESI KE O ISTOR ME OLA TA ATRANTAKTA EPIXIRIMATA SAS TI NOMIZIS OTI KATAFERATE;;

I SLVOBOULGAROI VOVOUNTE KE SEVONDE MONO AFTON POU EXI DINAMI KE DEN ASTIEVETE. P.X : VASSILIOS BOULGAROKTONOS TOTE, TO NATO SIMERA.

14 XRONIA SINOMILIES ( TALK FOR THE TALK ) TI APOTELESMA EXOUNE?

OTAN TOUS ANAGNORISANE I AMERIKANI ( EAN I EL. KIVERNISI IXE PI OTI INE EX8RIKI ENERGIA APO SIMAXO XORA, KE IXE ANASTILI TIN LITOURGIA TIS SOUDAS ),
8A STELNAME ENA MINIMA SE OLOUS EX8ROUS KE FILOUS, OTI KAMIA LOUGRA DEN MPORI NA PEKSI ME TA E8NIKA MAS SIMFERONTA. OMOS.... TIN SINEXIA TI KSERIS.

GIA AFTO FILETO KALITERO INE: SI VI PACEM PARABELLUM.

FILIKA

LOXIAS.

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 2:21 AM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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VARDASKA BANANOVINA IS ONLY 21% MAKEDONIAN SOIL... REST IS ALBANIA. WE WANT THE 21% BACK

by loxias (no login)

.

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 5:10 PM
from IP address 213.84.59.197


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IF GRECCE DECLARES WAR ON SKOPJE, GREEKS WIIL BE UNITED IN THE DESTRUCTION

by ETAN E EPITAS (no login)

AND ELIMINATION OF SKOPJE AND IT`S PARASITICAL , MORONIC INHABITANTANTS
MONON LAVE ETAN EPITAS BURN AND BURY SKOPTHIA

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:52 PM
from IP address 64.12.116.68


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WHAT WAR! ONE RAID!BY JUST ONE F16! IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TO DO THE JOB!

by H (no login)

H

Posted on Jan 27, 2006, 12:47 AM
from IP address 70.30.11.100


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Feniks Khangaroovski...

by Boris I (no login)

we know well that retarded fyromian cretins like you hate the presence of the Bulgarians here and love to suck Grk diecks...

your whole "national" ideology is about sucking Greek and Serbian diecks.

GO AND KILL YOURSELF FYROMIAN MONKEY

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:19 PM
from IP address 84.162.77.207


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Skopian Skum. DO you agree Boris?

by Periklis (no login)

Megale!

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 7:09 PM
from IP address 84.60.162.95


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Don't side with the devil n/t

by Nikos (no login)

hehehe

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 8:43 PM
from IP address 84.59.40.136


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Bravo!!!!

by "DAI" (no login)

Molis tora apedeikses poso anideos kai blakas eisai...

Bulgarospore ki esu...

Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 9:21 PM
from IP address 141.211.186.170


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E OXI KAI KYRIOS ESY BUSKOFSKI!SAS MATHAME TORA TI EISASTE!.....

by REPUBLIKA YUGOBULGARIA (no login)

http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=564412
Β.ΜΠΟΥΤΣΚΟΦΣΚΙ: "ΔΕΝ ΥΠΑΡΧΕΙ ΜΥΣΤΙΚΗ ΔΙΠΛΩΜΑΤΙΑ ΓΙΑ ΤΟ ΟΝΟΜΑ ΤΗΣ ΠΓΔΜ"
Σύμφωνα με τηλεγράφημα του ειδησεογραφικού Πρακτορείου ΜΙΑ των Σκοπίων, ο Πρωθυπουργός της ΠΓΔΜ, Βλάντο Μπούτσκοφσκι, σχετικά με δημοσίευμα της εφημερίδας "Ντνέβνικ" των Σκοπίων, που τον φέρει να έχει ασκήσει μυστική διπλωματία για το ζήτημα του ονόματος, μέσω συναντήσεων που πραγματοποίησε στη Φλώρινα με απεσταλμένους του Πρωθυπουργού της Ελλάδας κ. Κ. Καραμανλή, δήλωσε ότι:

''Πρόκειται για χονροειδή παραπληροφόρηση και δεν υπάρχει λόγος για μυστικές συνομιλίες για το ζήτημα του ονόματος. Επίσης, επειδή έχουμε εισέλθει και σε χρονιά εκλογών, υπάρχει ανεπίσημος κανόνας και μία[ συμφωνία κυρίων] να μην συζητούνται τέτοια θέματα τα οποία μπορούν να αποτελέσουν αντικείμενο πολιτικής εκμετάλλευσης".

E OXI KAI KYRIOS ESY BUSKOFSKI!SAS MATHAME TORA TI EISASTE!
DEN PISTEYO OI SKOPIANOI STON PROEKLOGIKO XRONO NA MHN PROSPATHOUN MPAS KAI TOUS ANAGNORISH KANENA KRATOS!


Posted on Jan 26, 2006, 4:03 PM
from IP address 212.183.62.38


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