This section is provided so that our members can share their experiences about anything hair related.

Have a bad reaction to a certain product?

Learned a valuable lesson which may save others
from the same experience?

Developed a system which makes hair life easier?

Feel free to contribute!

This topic got me thinking lately, and I'd love to read your tips and ideas.

Within the last year I went from daily CWC to C/O washing about twice a week (shampoo once or twice a month).
The following points helped me achieve this:

- Henna. Within the first week or two after using henna I found that I could go for an extra day between shampoos. I always went back to washing as usual after a while, but more out of a habit than because I really needed to. At some point I just didn't and it worked.
It seems to me as if the henna coating works a bit like a corn starch dry shampoo, absorbing excess sebum. While it washes out bit by bit the scalp has time to adjust to less frequent washing.
I actually found henna to be the most important step - it was always after a treatment that I felt comportable skipping an extra day and then continue this way.

- Rinsing. Whenever I feel like wearing my hair down and have it look especially good between wash days, I thoroughly rinse with warm water, condition with my favourite conditioner, rinse again and let air dry. Doesn't look quite like freshly washed, but definitely good enough most of the time.

- C/O instead of CWC. My scalp calmed down and produced less oil once I stopped using shampoo most of the time. Makes sense to me that skin that's being stripped from natural oils all the time tries to protect itself. I was always wondering why my scalp seemed to be the only part of my skin that was even remotely oily, when all other skin on my body was sensitive and dry. Then in occurred to me that I'd never wash any part of my body with anything as harsh as regular shampoo. I even have to wash my hair bent at the waist because I get a rash and painfully dry skin on my back if I shampoo standig straight.

- Brushing at night with a BBB. The brush distributes the natural sebum from the roots through the hair, making it slightly greasy - just the right amount of oil to be absorbed over night and look good in the morning.

- Learning to love the look of updos. Especially since I mastered the hair stick bun I'm finding myself looking forward to non-wash days, because that means I can wear my hair up all day. Updos don't hold well when my hair is freshly washed, plus I don't want to bun or braid damp because I don't like the massive waves that creates.


That's what I have to share on this topic. Any other tips? I wouldn't mind being able to wash only once a week some day and still feel comfortable.
The one thing that has always set a limit for me is my crown cowlick - as soon as my hair starts being slightly greasy it looks like I have a bald spot on the back of my head, even though the rest of my hair still looks quite reasonable. Any tips besides placing a bun just over that cowlick?

For those who cut down washing from daily to less frequently: do you think your hair benefited from this?

For those who wash only once or twice a week: Do you do anything to hydrate your hair in between?

TIA for any input!

Cheers,
Madeleine

--
1cFi, just above bra strap, dark ash blonde hennaed fiery red

Hi. I wash two - three times a week and have found that Alterna's hemp spray, which has lots of silicone but different from other silicone products. It's very light, smells really great and is the perfect pick-me-up for hair in between washings. Note that I have fine hair prone to tangling. This only works for one day for me, tho; after that it can be too much product.

I've been using Logona herbal hair colour for about 14 years with only minor breaks. It's very fine powder that mixes well and is more easily applied and rinsed off than any other henna I've tried so far. I totally love that stuff, use it every two to three months and couldn't do without.

Sorry I sound like a commercial

I recommend doing a strand test first (http://www.galaxina.net/henna has some great tips on strand tests and other henna issues). I've only used flame red and mahagony so far and keep it on my head for three two five hours instead of the recommended one to two because I love real intense reds.

Here's my routine, refined over a long time to the point that I don't make any mess anymore, I don't even stain a towel. It does sound lengthy, but I just wanted to make sure I cover all the little details. It takes me less than half an hour for a perfect application and maybe fifteen minutes to rinse it off without any residue.

Bear in mind that I'm doing a pretty drastic colour change, from an ash tone to bright red, so I want to be very thorough or else it will show. If you're only slightly changing your shade you don't have to worry as much.

Things you need:

Enough henna powder (one package of Logona colour is sufficient for about shoulder length hair of medium thickness)
Boiling water
Plastic or glass bowl and strong plastic or wooden spoon
Gentle clarifying shampoo
Two towels or one towel and a woolen cap
Some kind of greasy cream, vaseline or jojoba oil
Two pairs of single use latex or vinyl gloves with a snug fit
Hair dye brush
A hand held mirror (or assistance from a friend)
Cling wrap
Paper tissues
Wide toothed comb
A bottle of cheap, light conditioner
Some of your favourite detangling/moisturizing condidioner or leave-in
Apple cider vinegar

- Mix henna powder with boiling water (I use filtered water, but you don't have to) in a plastic or glass bowl with a strong plastic or wooden spoon. Don't use metal tools as this may chemically react with the henna (or so I read, I don't know this from personal experience). You want goo of soft yoghurt consistency.
With Logona you don't really have to add anything but water. They improved their formula some years ago and now already have all sorts of natural, healthy goodies in there including essential oils and jojoba oil. There are no artificial ingredients added and a lot of the stuff is organically grown.

- Wash hair with a gentle clarifying shampoo (this helps the colour to take better and get very even). I use Neutrogena clarifying shampoo. Wrap into a towel turban afterwards.

- Get towel into a position that it still covers your hair but slightly reveals the hairline. Apply some kind of grease to the skin all around your hairline to prevent staining the skin. I have used vaseline and nivea cream, but now prefer jojoba oil because you'll always get some into your hair as well and this washes out easily.
Be sure to cover your whole ears well.

- Get the henna goo. Stir, and if it has thickened slightly, add a tiny bit more hot water. The mix should now still be hot, but bearable.

- Put a hand held mirror (preferrably with a dark coloured handle), a hair dye application brush and some paper tissues into a position where you can grab them with dirty hands without making a mess. I lay them down on the toilet lid with the handles over the edge in the air.

- Put on single use latex or vinyl gloves. You don't want to use the ones that come with the henna, they don't fit snugly and you'll make more of a mess with them (if they don't slip off your hands completely).

- Bend over the tub and comb out your hair with a wide toothed comb. Put the henna bowl underneath your hair so whatever falls down while applying gets recollected.

- While still bent over, apply the henna bit by bit with your hands to your hair roots first. Section the hair into "chunks" and try to get the goo as close to your scalp as possible. Be thorough because you *won't* be able to comb through to distibute the henna afterwards. Get as close to the hairline as you can without going too far. You'll be able to do those details later with the dye brush.

- Apply henna to your length and ends strand by strand. After everything but the very hairline is covered and you only have little henna left, twist and coil hair and pile onto the top of your head.

- Stand upright. Move henna bowl from tub to sink and apply goo to front and side hair line with the dye brush in front of the bathroom mirror. Try to cover as many of the fine, short strands as thoroughly as possible without smearing any henna on your facial skin. Try to section the hair a bit without pulling too much to cover all roots to the point where you left off while bent over. Take your time, be fussy, it's worth it.

- Get the hand held mirror and use it together with the bathroom mirror to see your back, apply henna with the brush to the rest of your hair line.

- Carefully massage the whole mess a bit and have a look at your back if you see any "dry" spots appearing. Apply some more henna there.

- Wash your hands while still wearing your gloves, wet some paper tissue and remove any henna that got onto your skin around the hairline. Don't bother cleaning your ears yet. If you had to wipe a lot, apply some more oil or cream afterwards (preferrably with tissue cause your gloves won't get totally clean and you don't want to stain your skin yet again). Re-apply henna where needed with the brush if you wiped off too much. Repeat until all your hair is covered and all your skin is clean.

- Take off your gloves. Get some cling wrap and completley cover your hair (I need three sheets, back, top and front). I don't like the shower cap thingy that comes with the henna package. The elastic is so tight that it leaves marks on my forehead, especially as I leave it on for several hours.
Dig out your ears from under the cling wrap. Move the edges of the cling wrap rather than touching your ears unless you a waering (new) gloves again. Henna will stain your fingers rapidly and it's permanent on nails until it grows out. Finally clean ears with wet paper tissue.

- Cover your head with a towel turban or woolen cap. You want to retain the body heat on your head for maximum colour and conditioning.

- Leave on as long as desired.

- Prepare a vinegar rinse (two table spoons vinegar on one litre of cold water).

- Remove towel/cap and cling wrap and put on gloves again. Bend over tub as far down as you can (or you'll have have orange splashes everywhere), and rinse, rinse, rinse. Carefully massage your scalp without tangling your hair and rinse more until the water runs clear.

- Squeeze excess water out with your hands. While still wearing your gloves, apply a huge amount of cheap, light conditioner like you would for a regular C/O wash (see "LisaJaney's CO-Washing method" here: http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=224266&messageid=1035399568&lp=1039925065. You don't have to let it sit for a while on your head though as you would when C/O washing, just apply, massage, and finger comb to detangle. Make sure you cover and massage the neck hairs and those in front of your ears as well. Carefully comb through with a wide toothed comb, glide over scalp as well to loosen the last bits of henna.

- Rinse lots again until the water runs clear, then apply your vinegar rinse. The acid seals in the dye (like it does if you put some vinegar into the rinse water of fine silk garments that tend to "bleed" colour). It does make a difference, with a vinegar rinse I won't stain the hair towel afterwards, without the rinse I will.

- Apply your regular moisturizing/detangling conditioner unless you're planning to use a leave in for that purpose. The Logona henna is a heavy protein treatment, I always need lots of moisture to balance that or my hair will feel slightly stiff and brittle (not to the point of causing any damage, but unpleasantly so). That might be different for hair that loves lots of protein, mine generally doesn't.

- Rinse, towel dry and be happy with your new hue

If you rinse the way I described it you will very likely have no problems with little bits of henna residue.
However, I find that my hair feels slighly more stiff and less easy to comb/brush afterwards. Not to the point that it really bothers me, and it does go away after a few washes (together with the nice, full, fluffy feeling - my flimsy hair seems about twice as thick after a henna treatment which is one of the reasons I love that stuff so much). I mostly attribute that stiffness to the protein, I get a similar result from over-oiling with monoi or jojoba.

Cheers,
Madeleine

--
1cFi, just above bra strap, dark ash blonde hennaed fiery red

Long Hair Care ~~ Articles & Other
By Robert / PurpleBubba
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/LHC/Articles.html



Robert / b_bubba / Purplebubba
2a / M / ii (slightly wavy, medium strands, normal ) (According to Fia's)
3 / 29.5 needs trim / Goal: not short & aiming for waist
Cosmetology Student - 800 of 1500 hours completed in 2001. Not attending
My Lighthouse Homepage: http://angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/index.html
My Salon Directory: http://angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/salons/main.html
My Yahoo Groups:
Lighthouses ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michiganlighthousesandships
Hair Care 1 ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/womenwithlonghair
Hair Care 2 ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Long_Hair_Care_Too

Long Hair Care ~~ Articles & Other
By Robert / PurpleBubba
http://www.angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/LHC/Articles.html



Robert / b_bubba / Purplebubba
2a / M / ii (slightly wavy, medium strands, normal ) (According to Fia's)
3 / 29.5 needs trim / Goal: not short & aiming for waist
Cosmetology Student - 800 of 1500 hours completed in 2001. Not attending
My Lighthouse Homepage: http://angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/index.html
My Salon Directory: http://angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/salons/main.html
My Yahoo Groups:
Lighthouses ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michiganlighthousesandships
Hair Care 1 ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/womenwithlonghair
Hair Care 2 ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Long_Hair_Care_Too

Robert / b_bubba / Purplebubba
2a / M / ii (slightly wavy, medium strands, normal ) (According to Fia's)
3 / 29.5 needs trim / Goal: not short & aiming for waist
Cosmetology Student - 800 of 1500 hours completed in 2001. Not attending
My Lighthouse Homepage: http://angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/index.html
My Salon Directory: http://angelfire.com/mi/bbubba/salons/main.html
My Yahoo Groups:
Lighthouses ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/michiganlighthousesandships
Hair Care 1 ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/womenwithlonghair
Hair Care 2 ~ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Long_Hair_Care_Too

These were some questions that Long Haired Rennie asked when she visited a GM salon in Dallas in June 2003.

On the bangs theory - George Michael says that the longer hair is, the stonger the root - it's the same as weight lifting; if you don't work the muscle, it won't get stronger. Longer hair works the muscle/root more, and shorter hair doesn't. Also, the shorter the hair, the shorter the growth cycle. All hair grows for a period of time, falls out, and starts over again. The shorter the hair, the shorter the time period in between the growing and falling out. Someone with 3" of hair will have the hairs fall out often and grow back in - someone with 40" of hair will have a much longer time of growth before the hairs fall out. When someone has bangs/layers/etc., the roots of the shorter hairs are not as strong as the roots of the longer hairs, and the shorter haired areas tend to thin out (I can attest to this, as when I had bangs, my front hairline was extremely thin and I could clearly see my scalp from the front - I'm growing my bangs out, and now the hairline is much thicker!). George Michael says that if you let the bangs grow out, the roots will get stronger, and the hair surrounding the area will fill in (i.e. new growth). People with thin hair and bangs/layers can try growing to al the same length and see if it makes a difference.

On parting on the right - Bill agreed that not all people's hair grows from left to right - a large percentage does, but not all. Parting one's hair on the right side (if it grows from left to right), or the left side (if it grows from right to left) gives the hair a slight natural lift, and looks nicer overall. Also, parting one's hair in the middle can attribute to thinning of the hair along the part, especially if the hair is parted and pulled back tightly, as several ballerinas like to do.

On silicones - this product literally coats the hair like shellac - it's simillar to plastic. People that use products with silicones may like the effects simply because the coated hair feels very smooth and looks shiny - however, the coating on the hair doesn't let moisture in (hence the need to use clarifying shampoos - to remove the coating and attempt to let moisture into the hair shaft). Bill says that henna is the same way - people that henna their hair can't have the 1 hour treatment done, since the treatment won't penetrate the hair shaft.

On the treatment itself - Bill says that the difference between the treatment and your basic conditioner is that the molecules in conditioner simply coat the hair, and the molecules in the treatment actually penetrate the hair shaft. He's not sure what other GM salons are talking about when they say "15 minute treatments" or "12 minute treatments", since the only treatment done takes a full hour to actually work - 20 minutes to open the hair shaft, 20 minutes to penetrate the hair shaft, and 20 minutes to close the hair shaft. Over time, the treatment actually helps "rebuild" hair and restore it to its best condition (a note - it doesn't "heal" split ends - nothing will actually "heal" split ends - the ends must be removed to prevent further breakage).

On split ends - when a strand of hair splits, you're getting 1/2 (or 1/4 or 1/6 or some fraction) of the hair shaft breaking off from the shaft itself. A hair shaft sort of has scales (think fish), and splits are part of the hair coming off. Splits should be trimmed with good scissors (just the tips) right above the split, perpendicular to the shaft. Left alone, a split will continue up the shaft, and break off at some point, leaving you with a length of hair that's not complete.



19/29/32

All of this discussion comes from the LongHair Loom.
Posted originally by Neil A.

This is the third time this afternoon I have tried to post a message to the group regarding Jen's tangle problem including thoughts from Lance and addtional thoughts from myself. To ease the frustration of previous unsuccessful attempts, I have now resorted to having some wine, AFTER supper to ease anxiety about technology and stuff that sometimes infects our computers.

During the original thread from Jen, Lucy asked about any possible split end problem she might have. When I heard from Lance, the first thing that occurred to him was split ends and wondering if that had been addressed.

Split ends can definitely add to the problem if tangling is occurring on a regular basis. The frayed ends of the hairs can lock together even entangling other hair in their grasp. After we do a split end trim in the salon, the hair is noticibly smoother and more tangle free. Controlling splits can be a major factor in controlling tangles.

No one is suggesting Jen has a split end problem, just trying to eliminate possible problem sources, like a checklist. I have only seen photos of Jen's hair, which appears quite healthy, but splits can be hidden and hard to see especially in light colored hair.

Lance's next questions ask if Jen is making sure her cuticle is closed, wondering, after shampooing and conditioning if she is doing an acidic type rinse (which normalizes pH) like the GM Cream Rinse or some alternative, also employing rinsing with cool water, and patting dry to remove water as opposed to more vigorous toweling, (which can rough the cuticle).

He goes on to say that they have also found the new "ionic" combs and brushes to be very helpful and has offered to send her one with their compliments for her to try.

Lastly, he concurs that her henna treatment might be a source of a problem area, which can prevent effective conditioning. He says she may want to consider professional removal of the henna then deep conditioning, such as GM 12 Minute or One Hour treatment. (From my info, I was not aware that henna could be removed from hair other than by cutiing the hennaed hair off. I was under the impression that it was quite permanent, like permanent hair color.)

There may be one factor in Jen'a tangle problem or, it may be a group of things working together that causes this problem.
Trying to isolate a problem source can be a trial and error process. (When I say "Jen", this problem may apply to many of you, like Martine, for instance.)

At this point, it should be noted that trying to do professional-type hair problem assessments over the internet is almost impossible. It is hard enough when the client is sitting in a salon chair in front of us and we have a chance to inspect a person's hair in person to determine problems and offer possible treatment solutions. Even then, it can be a long process to better hair health and appearance. The other thing is we, as hair care people, do not live with you and your hair, and do not know all the things you do to it that affect how it looks and behaves. We can try to help with the hair woes and complaints you bring to the table, hoping we can make a difference.


I am sure Jen is doing most everything correctly, like careful combing, handling, etc., but her fine wavy texture, added length, seemingly abundant density may just be the things causing tangles and not anything she is doing wrong. I just want to know if this is a recent problem or one that has existed since her hair has been longer than shoulder length or BSL.

I don't feel that a length of hair should ever really be a goal. Yes, you, we, want long hair, but we should care more for how it looks, which means hair health, while it grows to a length we are most comfortable with. We can't really grow it willy nilly to some length and then decide we now have to start to take care of it. The taking care of it part goes right along with the growing part. (These past comments are not directed at Martine or anyone in particular, just my miscellaneous ramblings)

Martine, you, and we, have to make choices which may mean we have to give something up to gain something better. Now, belive me, these are not original thoughts, something you have already weighed yourself.
If tangles, coloring, wavy texture, length, handling, etc. all contribute to thinness of your hair over time, then maybe a shorter length is better suited to you. We have to make compromises based on the type of hair we have. And, they are not wrong choices, whether it is you, Jen or anyone else that decides that cutting back to a more healthy more manageable length is the best way for your hair to be.

Long healthy hair, of any length, is a treat to see, like a day of sunshine in the middle of winter. And, for the rest of us, if you are wearing long hair down, you get to be the sunshine in our day.

I love the design possiblities, simple and complex that long hair can be formed into. As for updos and buns, you can and would adapt to any length. And, I would hate to see your hair toy collection go unused.


As for your thought about being more tangly because you may be nearing your terminal length, I do not know for sure, but I would tend to doubt this. I would think it is more do to the things discussed above, including your general hair type. How do we really know what our terminal length really is until we try to grow it longer and it refuses to do so. Is reaching maximum length or not growing further do to other things we may be doing to our hair? Hard to tell.

Your question about heat treatments being better suited for some hair types as opposed to all:

About the only type of hair that may not see added benefits of heat conditioning are oily hair types, but if these natural oils aren't distributed throughout the length of long to very long hair, then the midstrand and ends may still need conditioning. I feel that all other types can benefit from heat conditioning, especially wavy, curly hair, processesd hair, hair exposed to more extreme elements and environments.

About styling products and processes: What I feel, a very complex issue, but one that can easily be experimented with. What is good for one person may not be right for someone else. I don't think any generalities exist. Of course, product companies exist to sell you products, but I don't think you should be tied to something unless it is the only thing that works for you. Same with styling processes. Whatever works best without creating damage. I don't think a light styling serum, mousse, or leave-in is bad if it helps control hair without making it look product laden.

I believe that as far as effectiveness of heat conditioning for what you have identified or deduced your hair as a fine hair type can also be discussed at a closer perspective. I am not sure why fine hair (which usually means thinner individual hair shaft) may not benefit from heat conditioning or why your belief that the cuticle of this hair type does "allow for good penetration in a shorter time without heat". Yes, some hair types generally have tighter, more smooth cuticles in so called "virgin" hair, but if other conditions exist, for instance chemical exposure, or daily heat styling, a more open cuticle based on what is being done to the hair on a daily or periodic basis may exist in the hair. I think fine or coarse hair can have a tight or open cuticle based on how it is treated by the owner.

And as far as product use by fine hair people, you are probably correct in that they may tend to use more products that promise to help build body and fullness. People with great body and thicker, coarser textures may use products that may help "tame the mane". Perfection is so fleeting.






Standard Hair Lengths

Handmade Scrunchies
19/30/32