What rules would you have:for the different classes?

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thats why i ask questions and gather information. Right now I am curious what other people think could be done. And I had to start looking at this by being involved on a differant level. Once I got involved in forming an organization, helping it run and grow, promoting, and announcing, i really started to see where some of the problems were.

Biggest problem is No oNE wants to change to someone elses rules, because they think they are going to be behind, or more experience people are going to come in and smoke them. What they fail to see is, by running rules unifrom, you can have a better show. and pulling could be run more like AMA(motorcycles) you can go to events closest to you and get points, not drive 4 hours to pull for certain point and miss a pull in our home town. And put it on promoters to make their pulls inviting to pullers if there are other pulls on that date that may pull their pullers away.

All purses should be same same for all classes. It cost everyone the same to get there, so pay them. More money back to pullers. Reason i got away from NTPA was they take alot of money and give very little back. No reason, we paid out over 50,000 this year at teh banquet, and expect 75,000 in 2007. While I am on it, I would likea pennies for points system, it takes work, but everyone gets a fair reward for their season. Every puller who attends a certain amount of pulls in their distrcit, qualify regardless of how they place. This pays a little less for 1st, but drops the payout to reward the pullers who came out week after week, but finished just ouside the "paying spots"

I think maybe a spread of 4 classes, not counting true stock.

highest class would be a supermodifiedfwd class, blending the blown and NA truck together in a fair manner.

If it were up to me, I'd let ALL classes run a profab, and axles up to 106 right from the get go. Also all the safety, as well as hitch and weight box, wheelbase would all be the same, so a truck could progress. Engine location the same throughout, again so the truck can remain intact, only engine maybe tranny swap to move up, with tires?

I dont what guys to have to build a new truck to move up.

I would like to see visial differnces in the classes. IE here the prostocks, mods and supers, set side by side can only be picked by experienced pullers, tha fans can not see, hear, and hence tell any differance.

I would like to put togther a chart, with basic rules, and also numbers, to get ideas on what it would take, so that everyone dont have to spend a bunch to get onboard. IE if there are only 4 Kotpa psfwd's, maybe theri rule have a little less weight then kenten psfwd's 20+, but chances are those truck could pull prostreet with little work.

I would do away with a regulrly run "run what ya brung" class. Seen em, dont like em, think the biggest money wins, and some people got too much bloody money. My friend had his 900 custom made by Jon Kassee it cost more then what an average person makes in 5 years. I would like to take that engine and his truck to some of the places that run that class. I also see people running ex514 heads on hugh engines, in what startes out as a kinda modified street class. The best classes are the most regulated, leaves out the grey areas that cause you the most problems.

But my workd is not perfect yet, nor are my ideas. Sometimes I thinI have really figured something out, and I am 100% right, but then I listen to other people ideas and realize I was missing something.

Good points, agree with all of them.

I would like to see any "Stock" class, ie: pure stock,modified stock, pro-stock : cast iron heads,stock drive train, and DOT tires,of corse the saftey things according to the amount of modification done to the truck. "Modified" trucks could run after market heads,pro-fab and other than stock drive train,and agriculture tires. I left out some of the minor things like the max. wheel base,hitch height,hitch length,etc.

I kinda agree with the profab idea, because not everybody can afford to get every at the beginnig and this would keep the cost of the class down and make the playing field even.

And the same for cylinder heads, some people say you can get after market heads cheaper than modifying Factory iron ones, but if the rules then would say after market heads are alowed, there is some cheaper ones but also you can spend alot of cash on heads, but they could do what the Stock car sanctioning bodies do they have approved aftermarket cylinder heads for each make of car and you cannot port them other than port matching.

that why i disagree with you about the profab. Maybe you think you cant afford one starting out, but if you cant, you will never be able to afford the parts your gonna break because you dont have one.

I take a KEN on this one, been there done that several times, profabs save parts, period.

As for a level playing field, is it level is you say oem trannies, but guys are putting the profab kit in the chevies? NO. Even before profab, the chevy guys would swap gears and have two finals they could pull in depending on track type.

So I say the profab makes in level and fair, and keeps the cost down.

Heads I agree, you need to progress, but again i do see guys spending twice on iron heads what they could buy supercobrajet heads for, and in my eyes, if you go to ford, and order a set of heads for your 460scj, what do you think you will get?? A set of cast iron facorty heads, sorry no, you will get Jon Kassee heads, because thats what they have now, they dont stock or make big block parts like that anymore, so that leads into what is factory/oem.

Personally, I'd like to see aluminum heads and pro fab t-case. For the newbies, just because it's allowed, doesn't mean you have to rush out and buy one. As for the heads, I'm with Reddog, for what it costs to have a set of iron heads ported, I can get better flowing aluminum ones for the same or less cash. I'd say put cubic inch limits on it (say 470-480cu in) and then allow aluminum heads and a pro fab.

"For the newbies, just because it's allowed, doesn't mean you have to rush out and buy one."

I agree with that but many people don't want to start out and work their way up the ranks. They want to start at the top. Look at us last year. We took our truck to the first pull with at lot of time invested and maybe $1500.00 in the truck. Sure the next week we spent another $2000.00 and still didn't do much. We were learning and having fun. That is what this should be about. Having fun. Many forget that. This year we will probably have another $5000.00 in motor, clutch, and trans by the time we are ready to pull but if you do it a little at a time then it makes it feasable.

Recently at our rules meeting we discussed many changes. We ended up not changing anything major as this is and should be a beginner class. Many orgs need their numbers to grow. Just my thoughts. Oh and yes, I too think it would be nice to see a more common set of rules so people could be more free with where they pull.

and i can agrue forever, you will see in a few years, when you have a profab in your truck, what i am talking about.

Itis about fun, how much fun is it to replace the transfer case after every other pull?, an axle every other pull, a tranny every 4th pull??

Its fun,, then you spend your money on what?? You said it allready engine, POWER, thats the first thing everyone runs out and does, NOW that extra power starts breaking parts, and you chase weak links till it aint much fun anymore and quit.

Thats why i say allow it, if you think you can run without it,,go ahead do it, save money.

If you think it is some magical power maker, your wrong, it may take a tiny less hp to turn, but the advantage is not performance at first, it is stress, or lack of it, you put the stress on the profab instead of tranny and axles.

One thing i didnt mention. Start with a profab, and start learning how to set your truck up. You can't set your truck up when you are stuck with a givin ratio.

You said somepeople want to start at the top, thats why you dont want profab, guess what, they are buying profab kits for their 465's and spending more money then the cost of a used profab, so you will always be running against guys who will spend money. But what Ive seen in 30+ years, the higher the class the less effect it has. The lower classes often spend more money then the class above, trying to get all they can get.

Ie I bet DAn could have built a top competative blower engine for less then the cost of the one he has now, if they run that class in WI.

I am just trying to let you know how your pulling will progress, and some of these things you don't see now, but you will.

I agree that if they allow the chevy 465 with a profab kit then they could allow a profab transfer case too.

Reddog... Not sure if you were talking to me.. I think you misunderstood my post or I probably didn't word it correctly. I do agree that things like profabs and rockwells should be allowed but shouldn't be manditory. I was gonna use 14 bolts but a wise man told me I would need several of them and sold me a 2 ton for a very resonable price. We did it right the first time (in that case). LOL. My point above is that many won't think hey I can't afford a profab so I just won't build my truck instead of I will skimp in other areas so that I can get a profab or I will start with this 205 and then next year get a profab.

Reddog, I agree with you, I would love to see our organization allow pro-fabs and aluminum heads, but then that would blurr the line between our super stock and pro stock. I don't see that happening. My point for new commers to the sport is start out in stock "brush" pulls the first year to see if pulling is something they like and want to continue doing. You don't have to go out and drop thousands into your truck just to give it a try and have some fun in the process.

I started out in the "stock" class "brush pulls" all around my area my first year. Now granted I "tweaked" the truck and the motor wasn't stock. But if I had decided not to continue I'd still have a fun toy. For my second year pulling, I decided to get into organized pulling, simply to get consistant rules from track to track and have been on a quest for more to be competitive.

As I'm sitting here typing a thought struck me. If Profab's, aluminum heads, eversers and 2 ton axles are allowed what then would be the seperator for the different classes?

Tires, type and size. CID. Fuel. Carb/inj. Blocks((limit them limits cid)). tranny. And even heads, because you might have class #one run iron oem style heads, ((though i fear in 5 years there wont be any)),, and goto alum stock config for class #2, then alumin any.

I would save reversers for the upper couple of classes. They are nice, but i dont see a real need for them, in most cases. I see many stock trannies holding 1000hp, and built auto can do more then that, i see em on blown fwd's, so it is what i would call a luxury item. A trans in 1:1 is not under a lot of stress, not like when we were pulling stock trannies in 1st or 2nd, then you break stuff. And when you regear to run in 1:1 either the transfer or axles let go, that the beuty of profabs, changes your outlook on your finnal, an makes axle shafts the weakest link, and they are easy to get upgraded and not as costly as your other components.


I would like to hear other ideas. How would you structure approx 4 classes from beginner to pro, regardles of name, just say 1 -4. And make it progressive. For the pullers. And fans, if you pulled just truck classes back to back, would the fans see, hear , feel the differance? I know runnig them back to back would be the hardest on the fans, but you get the point. And also,, you can't make rules that would cut a large number of pullers, ie making radical changes to ntpa modifieds would be a killer, as there are hundreds of these trucks out there, and many very very similiar.

Stock: Just what it says, off the street, registered, etc...
- no headers
- no weights
- no upgraded drivetrain
- 5500#
- etc...
- non-association

Modified stock
- must be street legal
- weights ok
- 6200#
- regular suspension
- iron heads...unless factory equipped aluminum
- headers ok
- 1 ton drivetrain max.
- 502 c.i. max.

Pro-Stock
- blocked suspension ok
- non DOT tires ok
- naturally aspirated single carb
- aftermarket stuff ok
- weights ok
- all the safety stuff mandatory
- 6200#
- pro-fab/militiary ok

Pro-Modified
- all safety mandatory
- unlimited chassis
- unlimited engine/blowers ok/nitro-methane ok/nitrous ok/single engine only
- unlimited tires
- CROWD PLEASERS!!!!!!!

This is not all inclusive but you get the idea..........

Stock: Just what it says, off the street, registered, insured etc...
- no headers
- stock intake
- no weights
- no upgraded drivetrain
- 5500#
- DOT Tires


Modified stock
- must be street legal
- weights ok
- 6200#
- blocked suspension OK but must have 2" of travel
- factory iron heads...unless factory equipped aluminum
- aftermarket intake OK (no tunnel rams)
- headers ok
- 1 ton drivetrain max.
- Must have DOT tires (35x12.50 max)
- 468 c.i. max.

Pro-Stock
- solid suspension ok
- DOT tires (33x12.50 Max) or 31x15.15 bar/Cepeks
- naturally aspirated single carb
- aftermarket iron heads
- weights ok
- all the safety stuff mandatory
- Race fuel (no alchohol)
- 540 c.i. max
- 6200#
- pro-fab/militiary ok

Pro-Modified
- all safety mandatory
- unlimited chassis
- unlimited engine/blowers ok/single engine only
- Race fuel or Alcohol
- 34x18 Cepeks/PitBulls

Modified stock
- must be street legal
- weights ok - 60in max
- 6200#
- Rear must have at least 3 leaf springs, blocks and traction bars allowed
- factory iron heads...unless factory equipped aluminum
- aftermarket intake OK (no tunnel rams)
- Single carb.
- headers ok
- 1 ton drivetrain max.
- 468 c.i. max.
- No alcohol
- 35x12.5 DOT tires max
- All safety rules apply, drive shaft loops etc.

The stock guy or Modified stock guy has a 2002 Chevy with a factory 8.1L 496???? Does he have to go buy another truck to play with us?!?!?!

Here we have 4 Stock Classes 4800,5000,5500,6000 with the 55 and 6 classes allowed Big Blocks.

Stock OEM Cast in cast out NO Aluminum no headers. Must have active Suspension with noticeable travel.

Open Stock
Small Block or Big Block 480 CID Max. OEM Configuration type heads Aluminum Allowed. 1050 Domi Carb. max. 2 1/8" Headers Down And Back, OEM Transfercase & Tranny 1 ton Drive Train. Hitch 27% Weight box 60" All Safety stuff

Super Stock
Any Cast Iron Blocks, 530 CID + 1% Aluminum heads Allowed Up to Ford A-460 Heads,Pro 1 Chevy, Single Carb. Headers Down and back Profab's and Big rearends allowed.
35" Dot Tires must track with in half front to back. Hitch 27% Weight box 60" All Safety stuff.

Modified
Any Block Any Head 650 CID Max. Carb. Inj. Gas or Alcohal headers Up or down and back.
35" Bar tires. Hitch 30% Weight box 60" All Safety stuff.

There's some little things I left out but of the most part these rules work around here.

ShaZam

I wouldn't care if he ran with us as long as he could make the weight 6200#. What ticks me off is when they lump everyone together and I weigh 4900# and have to pull against a 9000# Dually,4x4,4door,long bed,deisel.