Well Sat. worked out to be a very good day for 1 Draggin.
We actual got lucky and hooked 3 times which was forturate for me because I was jittery and needed to practice on the new clutch.
First up was the 6500 prostreet which is a class above what I run my truck in.I was the 2nd puller which was ok because the track was dry and dusty and I couldn't see it getting any better. I hooked to the sled and pulled the slack out brought the r's up and the truck just quivered and little and never shook the sled. Well that pretty much shot myt nerves. The transfer case wasn't all the way in and only the front tires turned so I pulled it in and out of low range, backed up as much as I could and took the slack out again and broughteroff in 1st gear no less. At around 80 or 90 feet I realized what I had done and said oh well this will be a break in pass on the new motor and lifted the pedal so the motor only turned about 6200. We still slipped it out to 254' not so bad.
Next up was the 6800 Mod. I was walking back to the trailer to check on the truck to make sure it was cooling and nobody was messing with anything and the guy that was running the pull wanted me to Hook in that class because he was the only truck to run. I kinda back stepped and said no but then he said I was guarenteed 2nd place money so I told him I'd be right there. This time I made sure everything was right and brought the r's up to about 5 grand and brought the clutch out and rolled her out about 5 or 10 feet and layed it to it. The sled was damn tight and I could really feel when the pan bit down and it stopped us pretty quick. But we were sittin' at 278' and was happy all was well.
So the last hook and my normal class 6200 Mod street was last class for the day. Some of the heavy hitters in the class were at another pull so I felt pretty good about this class. I hooked up to the sled tightened up the slack, brought the r's up to around 5.5 and let the clutch go. Rolled her out about the same as last time and layed it to her.The tach came up to about 6700 and stayed steady until the end when it dropped a couple hundered r's before it spun out. The sled stopped me about the same place as the last run 279 and some change. Which put me in first place. I was the 5th puller in the class and we had about 26 trucks. But I knew there was 3 trucks left to pull that were tough trucks. 2 Dodges that run the Indy heads and a alumuinm head 557 Ford. After all was said and done we finished 3rd. One Dodge got us by 1" and the Alum.557 Ford got us by 3 feet and some change. Not at all bad I was very happy to say the least. We had 2 money spots and the truck had made 3 passes and was still in one piece minus a power steering belt.
We have some pictures and a couple of video clips I hope to get on here for you guys in the next day or two.
The new clutch worked great. The suspension that Ken designed seemed to work great as well. Thanks to everyone who has helped out here on this board. You really are a great bunch of guys.

All righty .. way to get er done there ...

Soon you'll be the truck everyone is gunning for.. So watch your back side .



Dan

3 ft is nothing! around here the top 4 trucks change leads at each track and the hook to hook difference can be as much as 5 ft or more.

Keep it up as next time it could be your name on the winners check! LOL


Alan

We are still trying to load the video from the camera. Our computer at home won't do it. So Crissy loaded it at her work but the system wouldn't allow her to send it out. We are still trying. I love for you guys to be able to see the pulls. My truck looks pretty rough but it is kinda like the sleeper look.
Anyhow we are going to hook again Firday night. I am going to change the venturis in the carb and hopefully get to try some new fuel from VP as well. But I need some help in trying to figure out how to get more RPMs. If I can't get 7000 out her the boys that are going to show at the next few pulls are going to bury us.
What about bigger tube headers ? mine are 1 7/8 and Maddog makes a good set that are 2" will it be worth trying.
Also I thought about the K&N filter TOP. Now I know we aren't going to change one thing and make big gains But maybe I can change 3 things and 150 more R's.

I have a set of Maddog headers and love them but I don't think they are going to help get you get the RPM you want. Of all the parts I have put on my truck a 2" carb spacer gave me the most bang for my buck.

a 2" spacer but it is the one that has the 4 holes not the open type. I haven't put it on the truck. I have a 1" on now.
Like I said I know we will have to change more then just one thing. Maybe several. I wonder how the 4 hole would do. Now would be a great time to put it on while I have the carb off. Thanks for the idea.

The guy that dynoed my motor said he has seen good results with the 4 hole type that swirls the air a little. I'm not using it simply because it won't clear the hood!

What heads do you have, what is your final, what carb and intake do you have now? Those are going to be your limiting factors. On the headers I'd have 2-1/8" minimum. I'm running 2-1/4" into a 4 inch collector.

Alan

Alan I'm running the old model heads like you are. But mine aren't a max effort head. They have been professional ported and have 2.19 1.72 valves. Victor intake, 1025 cfm race demon today it will be a 1050 after I change the sleeves. Comp. should be around 12.8 to 1. Cam is 269 dura. at .50 intake and 275 on exhaust
Final gear ratio is 27.195 which should be more then enough gear.
I know the track was hookin' hard but I thought the motor should have turned 7000 easy.
I have a good fuel system or feel it is and was running about 7.5 psi.
Last year the motor turned just as hard with a smaller cam less compression and a dual plane intake.

Alan I'm running the old model heads like you are. But mine aren't a max effort head. They have been professional ported and have 2.19 1.72 valves. Victor intake, 1025 cfm race demon today it will be a 1050 after I change the sleeves. Comp. should be around 12.8 to 1. Cam is 269 dura. at .50 intake and 275 on exhaust
Final gear ratio is 27.195 which should be more then enough gear.
I know the track was hookin' hard but I thought the motor should have turned 7000 easy.
I have a good fuel system or feel it is and was running about 7.5 psi.
Last year the motor turned just as hard with a smaller cam less compression and a dual plane intake.

I don't remember what size tires your running (which make a difference), but with the combination you've got, I'd be surprised if it did get 7 grand. Larger headers will help, but isn't the complete answer. If your running 35's, drop to 33's, also look at your air pressure.

Alan

What is a max effort head?

dropping to a 33 inch tire from a 35 would defeat the purpose. you would have to turn the motor 7100 to get the same wheel speed. rpm doesn't make you pull any better wheel speed does. just last weekend i ran mine against the limiter at 7200 rpm with a 27.5 final and got it handed to my by a guy that i usually put 10-15 ft on because he runs a stick and jumped up to 1st high and ran 5500rpm and let the tires bite to the loose track a little better. so this week I'm swapping to a 25.8 final i think I've got enough power to run it since I've got the motor tuned in.

btw my motor is an unported dooe-r headed 466 with a 270° 280° @.05 .730 lift roller bumpstick. the heads aren't ported due to the rules in the class i run in.

I feel the same as Cory on the tires. I'm sure I;ll pick up rpm but I'd lose the wheel speed if I dropped to a 33. My tires are 35x12.50 radials and I think they are doing a really good job.
Air pressure was 21 in the front and 37 in the back. That amount of air in that tall of tire and hanging 900# on the front made them pretty squatty.
What kinda of a combo do I need to make 7000 rpms under load ?

First thing i would do is go to a roller cam if its already not. hopefully your engine builder put good valves in it when he did them in the first place. just a tad bigger than the one in there now on the exhaust side to help crunch it some. like 270° 280° @.050, maybe even 270 285, lift depending on what spring packeages you can run due to you install height limitations i would run a close lsa like 106 or 108 also to add some overlap if your not worried about idle quality. then a set of bigger headers we dont need the broad powerband like the racers do just mostly top 1/4 of it or so. I would go 2 1/4 if your going to build yourself a set. get the biggest set of sleeves available for that carb. again we dont need a real broad power band. i would have a dommy on top of mine if rules allowed it.

Just some ideas.

and jack up on end of the truck and turn each wheel and driveshaft making sure no brakes are stuck or bearings going out. the spindle bearing on the drivers side went out of mine and pretty much locked up the axleshaft. all of theses things rob a little horsepower.

Cory

I can only speak to what works in this area, but RPM is KING period.
Draggin, there's only a few ways I know of that your going to get more rpm. One is more ponies, another is drop to 33's and play with air pressure, and another I was just told about is to drop your hitch a couple of inches on a power track (haven't tried this yet). Look at the math. If your turning 6700 with 35's your running an ideal tire speed of 25.6mph. If you drop to 33's, you should be able to get up to 72-7300 and have an ideal wheel speed of 26.4mph and with the higher rpm, you'll be able to keep the rpm and wheel speed up at the other end of the track when the sled is pulling the motor down, so that should get you some more footage.
Another tip is a power track = more tire pressure, Loose track = less pressure. All the guy's here vary air pressure depending upon the track.
I've been talking alot with pullers in this area and watching to see what works. Just yesterday I had the same discussion on hitch angle with 2 different seasoned pullers and got opinions at both ends of the spectrum. But the one piece of advice that is the same is more RPM is better. Now how you build the rpm and how much you use varies on the track, but they say you want the ability to make all kind's of RPM. Some of our super stock and pro stock trucks are turning 8000-9000 rpm and they are in the top 3 almost every time.

Alan

Digger,

A max effort head is a head that has had everything possible done to it to squeeze every last cfm out of if.

Alan

to a certain point more rpm is better, but if you can hold the rs up and run less rpm and more mph then you will do better. btw 25 mph is on the low end of ideal track speed. and at 7200 the motor is out of its powerband so what makes you think the truck will run more mph? think of it kindof like drag racing mph indicates horespower while time has more to do with chassis setup and driver. same with pulling. wheel speed = power, distance = everything combined.

Cory

"to a certain point more rpm is better, but if you can hold the rs up and run less rpm and more mph then you will do better. btw 25 mph is on the low end of ideal track speed. and at 7200 the motor is out of its powerband so what makes you think the truck will run more mph? think of it kindof like drag racing mph indicates horespower while time has more to do with chassis setup and driver. same with pulling. wheel speed = power, distance = everything combined."

Like I said I can only attest to what I see working here in Indiana and also what I've seen in various videos and TV programs and in every case, they are turning major rpm. I agree you can have too much RPM and that's a bad thing if the tires aren't hooked. But if the tires are hooked, then bring up the revs.
I understand that 25mph is at the low end, but I was using Draggin's final gearing and tire size to show him the effects of tire size and rpm. Having the motor above it's rpm range is a good thing because when the sled starts to bring the motor down, it will bring it down to where the motor is making its peak horsepower.
I agree that distance is a combination of drive, chassis, motor and gearing and pulling is all about motion and momentum.

Your therory of less rpm is better eludes me. Can you elaborate on this more please.

Alan

they turn high rpm to get high wheel speed. if you can run the same wheel speed with less rpm then the gearing will be higher and the truck will hook to the track easier instead of having a tendancy to blow the tires off. but this takes a stronger motor to run the gearing.

your 100% right that pulling is about momentum. so what different does it make if your motor is turning 9000rpm or 7500rpm if the truck is moving the same speed?

Cory

"your 100% right that pulling is about momentum. so what different does it make if your motor is turning 9000rpm or 7500rpm if the truck is moving the same speed?"

The way I see it is simple. Lets say a motor makes peak hp at 8000rpm (these numbers are just for discussion) If you turn 9000 at the front of the track (assuming tires are hooking) then the weight of the sled comes on and draws the motor down to 8000, now your right at the peak of the curve and able to keep forward motion and momentum a little longer. Another motor turns 7500 and that is the peak of the HP curve then the sled comes on and starts dropping the rpm. Now your coming out the sweet spot, and that means forward motion slows and valuable footage is lost. Now if you can maintain 7500 and x mph begining to end then thats great, but it's a rare occurance that I've seen that.

That's my 2 cents on the subject, I'll shut up now.

Alan

ok but thats not an even comparison. say the secocond motor makes peak power at 7000 so it will turn 7500 and fall down into its sweet spot just like the first motor. both will loose some speed as the sled hits and the motor pulls down.

Cory,

I'm not sure of your rules, but one difference may be that around here we are limited to 470 cu in for super stock and 485 cu in for pro stock, so in order to get horsepower, we have to turn higher RPM then we would with a stroker.
But look at the NTPA or Outlaw or PPL. Those trucks are 600+ cu in and are turning serious rpm as well, so there must be something to it???

Alan

I have been playing with the wheel speed calculator that Dan sent me all winter. I knew I would need to get the motor to spin at least 7 grand and I had hoped that the single plane intake increased compression and cam would be enough. But I wasn't counting on the new suspension hookin hard enough to keep it down. One way to look at that is at least all my wheel spin is going to the ground.
I had played with the Borg Warner tranny as an Idea. It is geared higher. But I'm sure I'd have to buy new tires and drop to a 33" because I don't have enough motor to turn that high of a gear and the 35s. Now I'm not sure if there is enough motor there to run that Tranny at all.
I looked at the conbo alot before we got to run it and I know pretty much where we need to be. Now we just have to get there.
I changed the sleeves and rejetted the carb, installed the 2 " spacer last night. So we run again Friday night I know we are going to get our ass handed to us. Cause this group of trucks aren't playin' around. But we will see if we made progress.
Thanks to everyone for their input.

Sounds like you've got some thinking to do. Keep the gearing the same, and go through the motor again to handle the current gearing, drop to 33's or change the gearing.
I'm with ya on this one! My choices are go through the motor again, go to a clutch or leave the auto in and change the final. Now, which one gives the biggest bang for the buck?????????

Alan

I'm not sure but I think Draggin is looking for a quick fix, something that can be done between now and his next pull.

You might have to do some timing to the motor after what you did. You can use a timing light but I always end up going back and doing it by ear. I have someone bring it up to 3 grand and where ever it sounds (and looks) best.

Digger. I felt the motor had the potential to turn the rpm I needed. But I needed some ideas of things to change to get there. In the form of bolt ons or tuning.
My timing is now at 32 and I will bump it to 34. So I am trying to find things to adjust and thought you guys may have a few ideas. We all know that 5 or 6 brains are better then 1. Because you may think of something I have over looked. Which I did change my spacer from a 1" to a 2" because you reminded me of that.
I still think we can get where I need to be without changing my setup. Seeing that this past Saturday was the trucks first time out for the year.
How do you guys feel about cool cans ?? Are they worth the trouble ?
A couple other things I want to try are. Cutting some holes in the front of the hood scoop to let a little cool air in and I also want to try one of those air filter lids had actually are open just like the element.
AS you can see I am concentrating on fuel and air flow. Which I feel is part of my bottle neck that is holding the motor back. Changing anything inside the engine or buying big ticket items are not in the budget this year and the way work looks not next year either.

I've been told that 460's like 34-36 deg. timing, so you might try that. Watch your plugs though because your leaning it out and might need to adjust the jetting.

Alan

ever drill a hole thru the metering plate like Ken sujjested a while back ?? I'm getting close to not have any bigger jets. The specs from Barry Grant said I needed 96 jets for the 1050 sleeves which I have done. But I only have jets up to 99s.
Ken said to drill (ithink) a 1/16" hole just above the jets and then we could drop jet size back into the 80s and start jetting again. Not that I am doubting what He said I hate like hell to ruin a $1000 carb because I did something wrong. I also think he said that 2 degrees of timing was equal to 1 jet size.
Where has him and Brett been ? Maybe they can tell me what to exspect from my motor with the specs above...

I am FAR from an expert, and don't profess to understand everything (which is why I ask alot of questions) but I can tell you that with my current motor configuration and last years cam, 92 jets w/power valve were the sweet spot, and with the new cam, the 92's yeilded best HP but I went up to 95's w/powervalve so it wouldn't be lean in the real world. So, something doesn't seem right to me if your at 96's now (unless you don't have the powervalves in. Maybe someone can explain this to me so I'm not as ignorant the next time.

Alan

Alan the carb I have came with the rear powervalve blocked off. A couple of weeks ago I removed and plug the front one. Seeing how it wasn't the correct one it seemed to really help out. It had a 6.5# valve in and at idle the motor pulled 7.5 3 of vac.. So at idle it was already over riding the idle circuits.
The tech sheet on my carb from Barry Grant says 96s in the back with the sleeves I have install. So when we took the power valve out of the front I should have it square jetted seeing that the back with no power valve was 8 sizes bigger then the front when it had the power valve in. Which is exactly what Ken had told us a while back. "When you take the power out you have to go up 8 sizes in jets."