I have a mini-spool in my front differential. When I lock the hubs in, the front of the truck gets in such a bind I have to use a floor jack and lift the front end off the the ground to unlock the hubs. The truck will only go strait. I wonder if this could be some of my problem of tearing out the u-joints and drive shafts? I thought maybe I had different gear ratios from front to rear but I counted the revolutions of the tire compared to the drive line and they were the same. Anybody know?

Have you tried backing up 10 ft or so to relieve the bind? The problem your describing isn't uncommon. I know several trucks that have either a spool or a lincoln locker that leave one hub unlocked until they back up to the sled, then unlock it at the end of the run. If your leaving the hubs locked in anymore than that, then that would explain blowing u-joints etc.

Alan

I've tried backing up while someone tries to unlock and no go. I'll only lock in the hubs when we'er backing up to the sled. And then at the end of the track we'll have to park the truck and go get the floor jack because we can't steer the truck to the trailer. Usually a u-joint breaks before we even get the sled moving.

Did this problem just start? It sure sounds like different ratios in the pigs, but you said you checked that.

I have been pondereing your problem. I wonder like Alan.
How long have you had this problem ???
I have a Buddy that said if you are running the front welded up you need to have the axles in time. the u-joints need to be lined up just like on the drive shafts.
That maybe something to check on.

It could have been since I installed the spool up front. It wouldn't hurt to try. I was thinking of going to a Lock-rite Locker. If I did that it wouldn't matter.,right? Thanks guys!

The locker should release one side when you go to turn.
So you are running a full spool now ???
Spools and welded front ends scare me. Just my opinion. But I have seen a bunch of guys break a front axle then the real fun starts. The truck makes a very hard short turn and sometimes the sled doesn't get stopped in time until it hits the trucks bedside and it goes down hill from there.
I wish I had it on video. This last pull I was at. A guy was running a welded front end in a Dodge. About mid track it broke a front axle and took such a hard turn toward the left that it made the passenger side door fly open.Then the driver couldn't get his foot off the pedal.It was a helluva ride for a little bit.
I'd still like to know if your axles are in time.

we used to have that problem with stock hub locks on a Ford - A set or 1/4 turn Warns cured that issue. Its because a Fords uses a ramp type engagement system in stead of a spring.

Why are you binding - its easy - your front tires at 14 or so psi measure and all your front end weight and weights is about an 1" different in height from your back tires with zip for weight on em

no way to edit my last post and the grammar is terrible lol

theres an 1" or more height difference in your tires front to back because of different air pressures and weight.

ie from ground to centreline of axle at the front will be say 13" whereas your back tires might be at 15" from ground to centreline

change your hubs

we used to use a solid hub on the passenger side, and a warn on the drivers so we only had one side to worry about lockin/unlockin. So get a buddy n split on a set hubs and each of u put one on, as that is all that it takes to be able to drive the truck around with a locked front end, welded or otherwise.

Now on the subjsect of lincoln lockers and regular lockers - both react the same when an axle busts - one wheeel drive
The only reason a truck makes a dive is if u r runnin no power steering or sum cobbled power assist steering - neither are safe or up to the task of handlin a modified pullin truck!! period

Up here there are far far more lincoln fronts than any other, and in 18 years of pullin I only seen two take a dive - both had standard steering

Ken, I understand the logic in your post, but I'm still puzzled as to why he's blowing u-joints. I have run a Detroit locker in my front Dana 60 and a lincoln locker in the rear for 3 years now (with Warn hubs), and have never had an issue. (with low psi in the front and weights) I never unlock the hubs, and I never take it out of 4wd, and I know many trucks the same way.

Alan

Alan I know you may have been talking to Ken. But I feel Digger has more then one problem. I'm sure the hubs binding is loading the shaft between the tranny and T-case. But I think his problem there was the stock sized joints and yokes weren't up to his HP.

if u have the wrong setup for pinion angle, offset, homemade driveshafts, wrong phasing of joints etc u will eat up driveshafts n joints pretty ofter,

Any chance when u had the drive shafts apart you put the slip yoke on so the joints were not in phase? One tooth out will eat a joint or shaft very quickly

Guaranteed it aint the hubs!

It ain't the hubs. Draggin' I'm running stock size ujoints in the knuckles and until this year, was running 1310's on the drive shafts. This year I've got 1350's. This year, my drive shafts are custom build's. The last 2 years, I was running the stock dia. driveshafts. Now I know the Automatic is absorbing some of the shock, but still, with the kind of hp I'm making, if there was a bind, something would have gave.

BTW, I FINALLY got the heads yesterday. Can you see me dancin' lol!

Alan

U-joints are in phase. Pinion angle is almost nil.It is almost always the drive shaft that is between the transfer case and the transmission that fails. Not the shaft itself but the u-joints or the dohickey the u-joints are pressed into that breaks. I always have my drive shafts made at axle shops and have them balanced and tell them that it is for a "pulling" truck. They always assure me that I won't break there drive shafts. ha-ha. I am going to a GM drive shaft on the rear with 1350 u-joints;,maybe some kind of a CV joint on it. I'll probably do the same for the middle shaft unless I go to a married transfer case. And put 1350 on the front.The reason I'm using GM is because it is a bigger diameter shaft and looks heavier walled. And the GM drive shaft have 1350 u-joints already.


That is interesting that you said my tires are maybe a couple inches shorter than the back tires. But almost every pulling truck is like that and I never see them break or get bound up like I do. I can try putting air in the front and letting some out in the rear til I get the tires even an then see if the hubs are bound up.

Digger,

Get four jackstands, 2 buddies, case of beer(usually required to get buddies to come over). Put the truck up totally off the ground and find the bind. I am gonna guess you have a twisted axle or some slop somewhere that is putting the whole truck in a bind. I have seen them with over a quarter turn in them. As for the intermediate shaft it needs to be the best shaft in the truck, it takes all the power and sees the most rpm. And if you truck is still hopping or such on occasion that shaft is getting the beat back and forth the most along with a possible bind situation beating it the same way. Check the phase again, they have to be perfect. Once you have it in the air and you spin a tire it will tighten up at the binding point.

Travis

Huh...I did that. put the truck in thr air, locked in the hubs, put it in low range, and the tranny in second gear. Spun one of the tires by hand. All the wheels spun good. I even went as far as starting the truck and letting the motor spin the wheels(kind of scary)and still no binding. So maybe Ken is on to something with the tires being almost flat in front and making my front diff a different gear ratio than the rear?
I will check my u-joints and make sure they are in phase. I think I have gotten rid of my hopping. And I am going to upgrade all the u-joints to 1350 and use GM drive shafts. The GM drive shafts make the Ford Shafts look like a tinker toy. I am still thinking of going to a married transfer case if I can find one. So I can eliminate one drive shaft. and It will make my rear drive shaft a little longer and I won't have such a steep drive line angle.

Digger do you have any pulls left to go to this year ??
It would be nice to change a few things on the truck and get to try it again before winter so you had an idea where to go with the truck during the long winter months.

You've been using standard 1310's or 1330's? If you stay with the divorced setup, try to get 1410's and a nice beefy intermediate shaft!

I am probably going to have a married 205 for sale next month if your interested, and might be interested in a swap.

Alan

Digger, Upgrade the yokes to 1410's. Also, I don't mean to pee in anyone's wheaties, but if your driveshaft shop is selling you stock dia. tubes for the shaft, then you need to find someone that knows what the He$l they're doing. When I had my shafts made, the first thing he said when I told him it was for a puller was "we'll use bigger tube and bigger u-joints" also, don't use greasable ujoints as they are not as strong as non-greasable. Lastly, I wouldn't use a CV joint as it will be your new weak link.

Lastly, replace your hubs with aftermarket's. I've been using Warn's and Haven't had 1 hiccup with them.

Alan

So when you checked joint phasing, is the intermediate driveshaft in line as well, ie is the imput and output shafts properly inline?

Little to no pinion angle? - to what - are you tellin me the drive shaft is on same angle as the pinion but 30-40 degrees at the output of the transfercase?

I dont know how many times we can all go over this same stuff - and still be complainin of hopping and shaft issues

All input and outputs wether transmission, transfercase or pinions, MUST be on the same plane with each other, +/- 2 or 3 degrees.

All driveshaft joints must be in phase with each other - no variances.
___ ___
ie -- \___ -- \___ -- slashes bein the driveshafts, lines bein the input output, and dashes bein either tranny or transfercase or pinion

So if u look under yur truck and cant see straight line output, sloped driveshaft, straightline input, there is your issue - Period.

drive shaft phasing 0----------0 the 0's represent the trunion caps, the dashed line the driveshaft - zero tolerance here for lining up with each other.


good luck

I just got done looking at all 3 of my drive shafts and all u-joints are in phase. Pinion angle is perfect. Level with the ground or should I say parelell? As far as drive shaft angles go the rear drive shaft is the worst angle of them all and never breaks. The middle drive shaft is almost strait out of the tranny to the transfer case and that one always breaks, which is of course the worst one to break and then I can't get my truck on the trailer. And the front drive shaft never breaks either. I have no more pulls this year so I can't try any thing out that I might think I have fixed. And yea, all the drive shaft shops insist on using stock parts when rebuilding my drive shafts. Thats why I am going to GM drive shafts. You got to remember, I'm in South Dakota. They are a little behind here. Gotta go so I'll talk when I get back from town.

I would think with all the rock crawling going on out west you would have hundreds of shops for driveshafts and driveline parts. If you have no bind in you driveline, then it is inside your hubs. If they twist any it is a real BI**H to get the to unlock.

What about some of the online shops for making your shafts??

Travis

Here are 2 sources that I have used.
Rowe Truck Equipment 2500 S 475 East Lafayette , IN 47905 888-447-5566

Rowe has made all my driveshafts and know what they're doing! They have built driveshafts for many of the pullers in the area and stock many of the yokes needed. Just tell him what it's for, and where it's at and he'll have some recommendations. Make sure to tell him you want to upgrade the yokes!

Also you can try Mark at Greensburg machine, he had the upgraded yokes for my 205 case in stock.

http://www.truckpulls.com/Greensburg_Machine.html

Alan

I think I can go back to one of these drive shaft shops here in town now and things will be different. I will demand different size joints and tubing. Thing is I never knew all this stuff til we started this thread.

That's cool, I prefer to stay local if I can. But there are times.....
Anyway make sure to specify non greasable u-joints as they are inheirantly stronger than greasable. If you can get 1410 yokes then do so. Nothing less than 1350's. Also fwiw, I have been told by different sources that the Spicer u-joints are better/stronger than the others.

Alan

I'm sure there are joints that maybe as good as the Spicers. But around here we learned a long time ago that they were the way to go. We call them Spicer Blue Rings because of the blue rubber seal on each cap.
That is what is in my truck through out. I did get the new spicer cold forged axle joints ,they look a lot beefier for the Dana 60 front.

For the shafts I use, I go get military 2 1/2 ton shafts and flanges, it takes a bit more work to make, but they are super strong, and easy to unbolt.

aAlso, as for angles. It is impossible, is it not? to ge all three shafts at zero angle? The physical distance between the xfer input and output is a alot less then the physical distance between the center of chunk and centerline of engine tranny..

Being ocd, i know this, I messed with one setup for days trying to decide where the best place was to have the case would be where there would be little angle. The problem is unless you put the axle behind the enginetranny, you can not lower the trany enough to get straight angles on both shafts. And while pointing the pinion toward the output shaft helps alot, there is still an angle at the tcase end. You can change the axle position to better that angle, but it wil always be there, unless you drop the case to line it up with the axle. when you do this, you increase the angles tranny to case.

A divorced case is best option. try getting these angles to work when you have to move the entire engine tranny and case combo.

dont work to illustrate this.

You must be able to draw in three dimensions to be able to figure it out.

It doesnt matter if the driveshaft intersects two planes to get to a pinion or yoke, so long as the imput and out put themselves are on the same plane +/- 3 or so degrees.

So in reddoggs pic the second one being a top view, where all is lined up squarely for the ins, outs and pinions is correct, then if you were looking from the side you would be trying to have the ins n outs lined up as well.

Its actually very easy to do once you get your head wrapped around it.

In order to ease driveshaft angles you would lower the tranfer case a little while still keeping the angles of the ins n outs lined up.

This would make all three driveshafts approximately the same angle, in both planes of view.

I think Reddog is trying to prove the polnt that An un-married transfer case would make it easier to get proper drive shaft angle compared to a married transfer case.
The problem I have with my un-married transfer case is that it is a couple feet behind the transmission and makes my rear drive shaft angle worse than if I had a married transfer case. Because my truck is shorter than normal. Its not a short-bed but has a funky wheel base.
Lowering the transfer case would only make my problem worse because I'm always breaking the intermidiate drive shaft or u-joints.

Get anything figured out Digger? Just remember, if you decide to go married, I'll swap t cases with you.

Alan

the second pic is side view, and you lower the case, you put the short shaft joints at angles that are more applified by the shortness of the shaft. Combine that with the greater rotational speeds, and you run into problems i think.

If it were a top view, i would try and get the case output as close to a line drawn between the front and rear yokes as possable.

Can the tcase be rotated to lessen the angle to the front pig without affecting upper bearing oiling?

Alan