Did you discuss his marriage in the beginning of your EMR? If so, what did you learn about his marriage? Did you ask him to talk about the marriage, did he offer information, both?

How did your perception of his marriage change throughout your EMR? Did he talk more or less about his relationship with his wife with you? Did you want to know?

Please use this section to talk about what you knew or believed about his marriage, and how that was confirmed, or changed, during or after the EMR.

we talked about his marraige. he took responsibility for his part in the breakdown of communication. he felt very unappreciated--he was nothing but a paycheck.

I learned more about her through his friends, he never really said anything bad about her.

I know her now, we've met (she doesnt know my full history with him). She has no common sense and thinks in very small circles--his daughter needed surgery (minor) and didnt bother to tell him.

MM has a great marriage. His wife is a very beautiful woman and he is very much in love with her. I honestly believe he is one of few who can love more than one person at the same time. MM said his marriage has been even better since our affair.

Yes we discussed both our marriages. He asked more than I did. I observed. He'd been wounded so deeply is the best way I know to describe it. In retrospect today, I know that is what happened. I remember he loaned me some Tony Robbins stuff at one point....he had forgotten all he'd filled out. It was his pain years and years before about her....I sat there reading it crying. I told him I read it and we just held each other for the longest time. He always felt like I had been sent to him to heal him....I thought he was crazy. I think he was right and I think he was sent to me to tear me apart to the point that I could find healing....to tear down my walls....wow....In any case, he was not in a happy marriage, with a miserable woman who he needed approval from and who was never going to give it....he married his mother....it was very sad.....long time since I thought about it....

We talked very little about his marriage initially, except that he was married for 20 odd years and a son ready for college soon. That was about it. He mentions wife and home life from time to time and it is kind of nice that he wants to share some of the personal goings on with me. We talk about plans for vacations, holidays, and stuff like that and it doesn't bother me at all that he mentions those things that I know he will be doing with his family. Hell, I know the man is married, so I accept his home life as just another part of our relationship. His marriage is probably just boringly stable now since their kid has left for college and it is just him and her there in the huge house. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they split up now.

We did not talk that much about his marriage in the beginning, but it was apparent that it seemed very one sided, he did all the grocery shopping, she drank a lot, and so did he (although he didn't around me that much)he cooked the meals, cleaned the house, she just seem to be the queen, and he waited on her hand and foot. Although he did not complain about it, I found it very weird, The other guy that was married that I saw for 7 yrs, he too, did all the shopping, cleaning, everything, she did nothing. And he didn't complain about it either. Maybe both being married for almost 20 years, they felt this was a normal thing. And sex was pretty much non-existant.

I met MM thru work and because of that he provided me with his tax returns and financial statements. So I knew he was married. We knew each other for a few months when we went out for time. Over dinner we had the "canned"...you know I am married, this is just for fun...when it ceases to be fun for either we end it with no regrets. Agreed to all as it was what I wanted too.

Over the course of the early relationship we discussed the marriage (his and mine that had ended a year before). He told me that he got married because all his friends were. He had come home from Vietnam and all his running buddies were married. So he looked around and found the most 'eligible' based on the same religion, socio-economic group etc etc etc and proposed. They married two months later. He said he knew he had messed up immediately. Two days before his wedding his Mother begged him not to go thru with it, she knew he was not the "marrying kind" at that point. Two days after the wedding he went to him Mom and said that she was right, he wanted out. She told him to give it one year. 9 months later his W was pregnant (admittedly not by herself!) and then his son was born. So he decided to stay married and do whatever he wanted. Which he did.

He said he always planned to leave when the kids got older (that has been a moving number).

By the time we met they were living is separate rooms in the same house as one child was still at home. After his daughter moved out so did he to their condo. They have lived apart ever since. Early in our relationship they would go on an annual vacation together with her parents (to save face)...he would stay drunk and call me ever few hours miserable for the week. After two years of this he refused to ever go again. They legally separated almost a year ago but have not divorced. There is insurance and financial issues at this point but he says he will go thru with it. Their marriage no longer effects anything for us and it is not a big deal for me.

MM is happily married. He never plans to leave and I wouldn't want him to. I just want him to be happy, whether it's with me or her it doesn't really matter.

I knew he was married beforehand. It wasn't something we talked about, though. He will mention things pertaining to that part of his life out of necessity, and then he's refers to the wife as "somebody".
"Somebody didn't let me out of the house," he'll say.

One of the first conversations we had was about his marriage. I was the curious one. He never ask me any questions about my marriage, I on the other hand bombarded him with question; questions that he was(is) always willing to answer. I like that about him.

He told me that they were good friends if nothing else he knew that was true about their relationship. I could accept that because me and my H are good friends too.

My whole perception changed when I found out that she was on very strong anti depressants. She is numb. I was shocked at how quickly she got over the discovery of our affair. She has a "whatever" attitude. I know that they could live like this forever. This ticks me off. She will never face reality and as long as she's on those pill she won't have too.

Their marriage is a partnership in parenting. What a wonderful concept!

Luckily for me... ive witnessed (to some extent) his marraige from its conception. I ws around wen he met her, i was aroudn and in his life (in fact discussing OUR life) when she got pregnant by him. I firmly believe that he would not have gotten married if it were not for that. Not that he culdnt have fallen in lvoe and married her down theline for love alone... i just dont think that the possibility for it would have been present had she not become pregnant.

But... she did get pregnant. Who knows how itwas being prevented on either part (or if it was at all - you dont want my opinion on that). All i know was that she did know of me then.. and did not like my relationship with him. She was very threatened by it.

SO... she got pg, told him she would gt out of the air force if they didnt get married, or she would have an abortion. Then she thought of doing both (abortion and ending her career). Or they could get married and he could get out of his orders (he currently had orders to go overseas for one year, and could not take any family with him). and ofcourse, withthat option, everything would be beautiful according to her.

We discussed it, i encouraged him to do what he felt he needed to do. The last thing i wanted was any responsibilty or bearing on his relationship with her and his decisions. He decided the right thing to do was to get married. He alredy had one son, that had just turned a yearold. Hed decided not to marry his sons mother and she ended up overseas with his son, him paying child support, and unable to see his son. This had a huge impact on his decision to dothe right thing. His previous belief system that he could be a fathr to his son without being a husband to his sons mother had been shot when they both left for the other side ofthe earth.
Sohe got married.
The first yearthings were rough. He did talk about it, but minimally. As me and him got deeper intot he EMR, he talked less about it... but would leave the house to call me when things got really bad. The only info he usually volunteered was if my name came up in an argument. She often accused me of being the reason that he and his exfiance didnt work out. (His W used to work with his exfiance and shed heard allkinds of gossip about me since the exfiance was threatened by me too). but... other than that he only broughtup things that would be relevant to our conversations.

He rarely talked bad about her, even in their worst of times and when he did talk bad about her, he always reassured meand himself that she was a good person even underneath all her faults. and i never doubted it for a moment. They had their problems...b ut nothing huge. Their biggest problems she never knew of.

The one thing he did mention oftne of their marriage was how he couldnt tell her much. She was very religious and insisted on certain things (not dressing their kid up for halloween was one thing) that no matter what he thought, she wouldt budge on. She didnt want him to associate or be friends with certain people (bad influences she thought - especially his single friends), and didnt like certain things he did (play pool, etc.) or him watching certain shows (man show would be a good example). Even certain songs. (One song he liked talked about having 2 women at once in one verse, and shed bitch like hell "oh you must really want that huh? is it so damn hard having only one woman at a time? you must hate being married, etc etc etc" as if the song was of any significance - his lack of self confidence prbably wouldnt allow himto be with 2 women at one time is what she didnt know).
So... simple things, he couldnt tell her. Certain jokes he heard at work, he couldnt tell her, she either found it inappropriate or wouldnt approve of who he heard it from/where he heard it from, etc. It was just amess. He said he always felt as if he were censoring things he wished he didnt have to sensor, biting his tongue for stupid stuff.

But, his tone, nor his attitude never really changed through out the EMR... if anything he put more into it and put up with more (keeping his mouth shut about more things that he didnt agree with/like) as our EMR went on. Most of it of course was in hope that he could get something his way farther down the line (a night out with his friends, etc.).

Rain...

I knew him for four years before we started our emr. He had talked about his marriage off and on during those years. They were growing apart. She wasn't very supportive, was pretty demanding and negative. Not long before we began our affair, he told me they were probably going to seperate. That never happened. He's told me since that his marriage is over and he doesn't know how much longer he is going to stay. But he still stays.

When we first started our emr, he never called her by name. He only said "her" or "she". Now he calls her by name. Plus he talks about how he's let her down. I think he loves her very much. I think he turned to me at a time when he didn't feel she loved him. I just wish he'd be honest with me about it. If he loves her and wants his marriage to work, then that's what I want for him. I love him.

We were friends for many years before we had an affair. I was at his wedding, I have had opportunities to observe the interactions between him and his wife over the years.

He and his wife do everything together. They live in a rather remote area and rarely have visitors. They work at the same place, drive to work together, have lunch together every day, and spend every evening and weekend together. They have no children. When they do socialize it is almost always as a couple. He does have a few independent friendships that he maintains mainly by making phone calls while he is at work. She has no independent friendships and no interests that she pursues outside the home. They have been married for 7 years.

The exception to all of this togetherness has been MM's relationship with me. Because he had a pre-existing friendship with me that was well established years before he married his wife, he managed to make time to see me.

He has told me that his wife becomes extremely anxious and cries if she is apart from him for more than a couple of hours, that she doesn't like to be home, or for him to be involved in his own interests when they are home together, because then she has "nothing to do". He talks about these things in a conversational tone and never lets on if he feels anything negative about them. He has however, said that his wife is "insane".

I don't believe that he and his wife have ever had a major argument about anything except his affair with me.

There is a typo in my post above, it should read "She doesn't like to be home alone, ..."

I wanted to add that MM and his appear to have an extremely loving marriage. He has told me that he is in love with his wife, and I believe him. He says he just loves me more.

In the beginning, we both didn't discuss it. We both felt like it didn't exist. In a fantasy world. We didn't have to deal with it, because we both were in Italy far away from home and far away from his wife.

I would say towards the middle of the affair, she called while we were together. I felt very uncomfortable. He wasn't too nice to her on the phone. All I thought at the time was, he will never talk to me like that, he tried once. I snapped right back to him, and he respected that.

He wanted to talk about his marriage, I wouldn't let him. It hurt too much, and he understood. I was with him a few more time when his wife called, and he would make a joke to me about it. How I was wince, and try to crawl away. He always said that he thought it was cute.

On our last night together, he admitted to me that he was afraid that he would never able to touch his wife like he touched me, and that I made him feel again. he said it has been years since he felt that way.

2 weeks after we got home and there was supposed to be no contact, our affair was over. I called his cell, he wasn't nice to me, but this time I was too upset to give it back. He stated that I "Put the passion back into his marriage".

We have never discussed his marriage and I doubt we ever will. At first, I just didn't want to know because it made me feel too guilty - made me acknowledge what I was doing. It seemed easier to pretend he was single - just busy a lot. Later on, as I got more curious about his W and about his marriage, I was too proud to pry. He always said that one of the ways I was different than all his other OWs was that I never asked, never cared to hear about his W or his marriage. So, of course, I was stuck there - I liked being different, I didn't want to ask and become like all the rest.

My perception of his marriage is that it is an unusual one, certainly. I think it borders very closely on being an open marriage . . . I think it would HAVE to. He is never home, never, and she just doesn't seem to care. He goes by himself to parties & clubs & she almost never shows up; they take separate vacations - they seem to have completely separate lives.

She puts up with a lot. I'm glad I'm not his wife: I would never put up with it. She pays the bills, though - probably handles all the household stuff. She's blue collar, not intellectual, not particularly questioning or insightful, I think. I get the impression from things he's said that she is very restful for him. He says that they're best friends but she doesn't seem to stimulate or interest him particularly, on any level. Maybe physically - she's very small & thin, almost childlike - and I don't want to go there.

He always said he would never leave her but I didn't believe him until he broke my heart. Now, I believe him - but with that belief comes some freedom, too, because I know that even if he did leave her, I wouldn't want him on a full time basis. From everything I know of his marriage, I would say that I have the best of this bargain.

We actually never really discussed his marriage or what he thought was "wrong" with it, then or now. He mentions happenings at home from time to time, yet I have never, ever heard him say anything derogatory about his marriage or his wife. I would say he is one of those men who would definitely say he is "happily married" (even though he is having an affair).

I did meet xMM's wife before we got involved. She came out to dinner with a group of us consultants and the management team.

I never hated her. She could be pretty funny. The only thing that surprised me about her, was how disrespectful she was to xMM, especially in a public place and in front of his boss and his employees. The sarcasm and some of the remarks were very surprising.

It wasn't until later I learned her first marriage was abusive and left some scars. Then I understood a little more.

As I learned more about her, her life was a lot harder than mine. I have a lot more choices than they both ever had.

In the first EMR that I was involved with, all I can remember discussing was that he was married, had been for 7 years at the time, that his wife had been in a horrible car accident and had alot of physical limitations because of it....he never said anything really bad about her, just expressed disappointment that things that they used to do, they were no longer able to.
The second EMR, I had just left my marriage a few months before, and was gun shy, hurting badly and while we discussed his marriage of 3 years, we discussed mine more, and the difficulties that I was h aving with my stbx...the second EMR was supposed to be nothing more than "screwing buddies", no emotional attachment, my request , not his.

We used to talk about his marriage in the beginning. I wanted to know what attracted him, how they met, if he's (still) happy after 8 years (2nd marriage). I knew MM intimately when we were young and I was curious to find out the values and dreams he brought out of our relationship (then) to his marriage now.

It saddened me because MM and I were headlong into an intense relationship (again after 25 years) - yet he admitted he could not leave his marriage, he wasn't all that unhappy, he couldn't leave because of his kids. It broke my heart as it seemed we were heading down the road to being together again after exploring all the ridiculous reasons why we split up years ago.
MM has (after 4 months) distanced himself emotionally - in order to 'keep me in his life' - which is paradoxical to say the least.

I now have little curiousity about his marriage except to know if it's failing - increasing my chances to 'land' him once again. As more times goes on I want to hear less and less about 'her' - because I'm getting less and less feedback on 'us'. I feel much more intimidated knowing MM's dug his feels into his marriage - makes me feel guiltier as time goes on; makes me want to give up and leave MM to his family life - until another time and place.

certainly in the beginning we didn't really talk about his marriage. In the last couple of months, I have started to ask more and as a consequence his wife (and marriage) is mentioned more....I suppose because we have become more 'relaxed' about discussing the subject.

He said a couple of months ago that are A had affected his marriage (negatively) and he had been excused of appearing more distant. I felt guilty hearing this.

My marriage (and now my divorce) - which I left 6 months into the A had been discussed to death. I wouldn't be surprised after seeing the hell, stress and mess I've gone through will have made him more determined to stay in his marriage......which he says he'll never leave (no kids as ties either).

What I forgot to add is that from the start he said he'd never leave and that there was nothing wrong with his marriage. That is what I find incredibly difficult to understand...in my eyes there has to be something wrong or missing from the marriage for him to be having an A in the first place.

I sometimes do wonder what he is keeping him in the marriage. They have no kids and never wanted any. I wonder if I could offer him more than his marriage, would he leave.......but I'll never be able to compete. He and his wife enjoy a fabulous lifestyle, where money isn't particularly an issue. I have a young son and no money....I know money isn't everything, but I think in his case it is one huge reason to stay.

i wanted to hear as much as i could about what was going on in his household. it was the only way i could emotionally prepare myself for things to come (or not to come). at least whatever happened, i wouldnt be blindsided.

but of course, this was never the main reason why i wanted to know about his relationship. i wanted to know because i wanted to listen to him if he needed to share. he is my best friend, and he knows that now. and i will be there for him unconditionally regardless of what happens.

the only thing he avoids doing is talking to W on the phone when i'm in the room. i understand this. he doesnt want me to be uncomfortable, but he also respects W enough to give her his full attention when they speak, and my presence would be distracting.

he has shared at least 90% of the goings on with me since day one. even most of his therapy sessions, i know what is discussed. if anything he has learned from his marriage, is that not sharing the absolute truth (whether or not its what you want to hear/know/tell) is NECESSARY.

yes, sometimes early on, hearing the truth and his doubts was painful...but at least i always knew where he stood with her and me.

We knew each other for a long time before our affair, and I knew his wife too, so I knew a fair bit about his marriage before our relationship began.

Before our affair, MM's W and I used to talk about our marriages and how we were both disatified, so I already knew how unhappy MM's M was.

While we were together, he sometimes talked about how he had loved his W when he married her, but that they had grown apart over the years. She never wanted to do anything with him and rejected all his suggestions about things to do together. She went on holidays without him (mostlty to see her family). In 17 years of marriage, they only took one vacation away together.

My perception of his marriage remained the same throughout our affair - they were staying together for the sake of their children.

They didn't share any interests at all, except for their children, whereas MM and I had a lot (or so I thought) in common.

We've actually discussed his marriage & relationship with W quite a bit... I've known both of them for a few years, so I've seen how she is.... basically everything a cheating husband would describe as his W, but she really is that way heh very controlling & manipulative to the Nth degree... seriously, I've never seen anything like it (think emotional abuse). He's been fantasizing about leaving for years, but sits there unable to move in either direction (ie, fix the marriage or leave)... now he's making strides to leave, but she's not granting permission nor will the adult daughter, who is fighting the battle more than the W.

I never asked him anything about his marriage.

The first night we were together he just started talking and I was totally unprepared for everything he said.

He loved her, she seemed to have no interest in him, she didn't want to even sleep in the same bed with him, he had asked her why, and tried to talk about it, but she'd either blow him off, or say "nothing is wrong." He told me, point blank, that the thing he wanted most in the world was for their relationship to go back to being the close and lovign relationship it was in the beginning. He always kept looking for ways to blame himself, and trying to figure out what HE could be doing wrong. It put me in the weird position of sleeping with him and then turning around and being his sounding post and attempting to help him figure out what he might have done wrong.

I couldn't say to him "sounnds to me like she's fallen out of love with you and is hanging around because you are paying her bills," or worse "sounds to me like SHE is sleeping with someone else..." but that's what I was thinking. I've never seen a man whose ego was as badly beaten up as his was... and is.

She left him recently, which I kind of half expected. Now he is beginning to talk about some of the stuff she did (and did not do) that he would not talk about before, because before he just would not say anything bad about her. And I always knew that if she did an about-face and began to love and want him again that he'd drop me without a second thought... and for HIS sake, I actually did hope that would happen-- would have been SO much simpler for us ALL.

No subject is off limits. And, yes, I want to know...I need to know.

They sleep in the same bed with two kids...every night. They haven't had sex in two years. They go places and do things as a family, but never alone together unless it is an expected work social function. Essentially, they are roommates.

He fell in love with a smart, beautiful, independent woman, who had 'issues' in her life that he thought he could help her through. He sees now that her issues are her own and not his to control. Speaking of control, they are both very strong personalities, and each need to have the upper hand. Each has to be right. Funny thing, is that he still sees the foundation that was laid as a basis to the marriage and, I believe seriously hopes down deep can be repaired when the children are over. I've pretty much told him my feeling on that...that if you are not working to keep in in repair now, there will be nothing left but rubble.

He says they haven't slept together in over two years. I keep telling him either he's full of bolony or she's getting it elsewhere...he said he hopes she is.

Did you discuss his marriage in the beginning of your EMR? Yes
If so, what did you learn about his marriage? Did you ask him to talk about the marriage, did he offer information, both? He offered and I asked: He settled, didn't think he'd find anyone else. She was ok before kids but after kids said to him "i have you now you wont' leave your kids". Says they have no respect for eachother now. Have discusions of the house and kids. She doesn't support any of his hobbies. She tells him what he can and can't use their money for. She doesn't allow him to smoke. He says he picks and choses his fights with her. Said their sex life before us was about once a month. Said that she doesn't believe in having sex unless it's to have a child. Says he hated her when they first met but because he was kind of geeky in school he couldn't get anyone else to go out w/him.

How did your perception of his marriage change throughout your EMR? Did he talk more or less about his relationship with his wife with you? Did you want to know? Still talks the same about her except now they haven't had sex in a year. He said he was sick of being shot down or refused. I dont' care one way or the other if I know about their relationship in the begining I did now I dont' care. Not much has changed from what I can see. I've listened to her on his phone when she calls, she always has an attitude and yells at him. Tells him he has to make dinner when he gets home. He will purposely make things he knows she hates to aggrivate her. I don't care to know what happens in their life anymore..In the begining i liked comparing myself to her thinking i was better. but now I would treat him or any man the same way she does if I was unhappy in my marriage. Honestly I think they both treat eachother like crap.

Did you discuss his marriage in the beginning of your EMR? If so, what did you learn about his marriage?

I knew he was married at the start of the EMR. At the beginning of the EMR he would talk about how his wife would not respond to his needs, and he felt ignored by her. He described that the emotional part of the marriage was “ok.” From my position it seemed that the marriage seemed for a lack of a better word “dead.” He said he had not been physical with his wife for about a year. And according to him it is not that he did not try, but that she would constantly push him away. I found this all somewhat strange since they had only been married a couple of years.

I know that she is emotionally needy in that she would always call him up no matter what. I also know that she can be somewhat controlling as well. From my position, he was attentative to her in he would bring her lunch, make her supper, etc. He never said anything in regards to them having any major fights or anything like that. I would guess that they get along in living with each other, but what was between them initially was certainly not there when I came into the picture.

Did you ask him to talk about the marriage, did he offer information, both?

No, I did not ask about his marriage, he started telling me about it at the start of the EMR. I did not care to know at the time, but I guess he was trying to explain to me why he was pursuing an EMR with me. I had never been involved with an EMR or cheating with MM or SG. He had been the OM to two MWs in his past. I guess he started to explain what is was like in an EMR and why he wanted one.

How did your perception of his marriage change throughout your EMR? Did he talk more or less about his relationship with his wife with you? Did you want to know?

Their marriage has changed because of the EMR. We were almost found out and that scare seemed to have changed their marriage. Since that point she apparently became much more attentative. I don’t know that his perception of the marriage currently. He has not talked much about the marriage as of late. For the most part I do not what to know about their marriage. If there is anything I want to know about their marriage, it is the parts that would affect the EMR.

MM and I met at work and were friends for awhile before the EMR started. I knew he was married since I've met him. We always talked about his marriage and my past relationships together. It has and still is to this day mutual when he talks about his W. Either he will tell me something or I will ask him something. He has always been honest about everything, and doesn't mind any question I ask him. This is a first for me as I always used to have problems asking or saying whatever I wanted to anyone in fear of them getting mad (due to past relationship outcomes). But with MM, our communication is very open and honest. I have learned a lot about his marriage and with what he has said, I have helped him realize what she is doing to him (his words). He knows now that he has been experiencing years of verbal and emotional abuse in many forms. Co-workers of ours have confirmed things about his M as she used to work there as well. Since we have started the EMR, I notice more with what she says and how she says it since I take phone calls and have to speak to her sometimes (my tongue hurts when this happens). Since we have been together, he has told me he is now realizing what a happy, healthy relationship is all about and what it should be.

When we met..he talked alot about his marriage,how he never loved her and met her at a time in his life when he thought he would never love again. He was looking for an out,he just didn't know what to do.

as we progressed,talk of her faded (at my insistance)and talk of leaving her faded even faster. That was the long beginning of the end.

What he told me,he never loved her,he was not attracted to her,in fact he picked her because she was so unattractive (his first wife left him for his best friend she was stunning) and until he met me,he had no hope of ever falling in love again (gawd I could shoot myself for believing that),she was fat,she was mean,she was un trusting of him (imagine that)..these are all his words..I should have KNOWN. Do I sound bitter LOL well I am about 1 thing,had he just told me he wanted a lay and nothing more (as I told HIM I wanted) and stuck to the rules,I would not have wasted nearly 2 yrs not dating,not seeing anyone else and perhaps meeting the man I am with now while i was young enuf to have children (yep XMM was gonna leave her and have babies with me-the 1 sure thing he knew I wanted)..I hate XMM with every breath I take..but while I am in this relationship,I have my self esteem and self worth back,and XMM is nothing more than a really bad mistake I made.

When we first met, we were both married. I divorced soon after I met him (didn't divorce for him though). MM made it pretty clear that he's not divorcing.

Based on what he says... his marriage (20 years now) is overall good, except for lack of sex/intimacy. Pretty important thing to have! and....whether I'm around or not, he WILL have someone else on the side to fulfill that need (he made that clear to me too).

I think the main reason he's staying in his marriage is for financial reasons....

one additinal comment to my post...

I'm HELPING his marriage by giving him the intimacy and the passion he lacks there. I don't think he would tolerate his marriage if I wasn't around or if he didn't have anyone else. I know intimacy/sex isn't the main reason of a marriage... but it's pretty much up there.

Did you discuss his marriage in the beginning of your EMR? If so, what did you learn about his marriage? Did you ask him to talk about the marriage, did he offer information, both?

How did your perception of his marriage change throughout your EMR? Did he talk more or less about his relationship with his wife with you? Did you want to know?

Please use this section to talk about what you knew or believed about his marriage, and how that was confirmed, or changed, during or after the EMR.


At the very beginning, when MM was trying to talk me into EMA, he said his life lacked passion. Told me where she worked, that he didn't like the fact that she dyed her hair, and that she was a little chunky.
Said they had married right out of high school 28 years ago, and that he had never done this before.

I was curious about W. Wanted to know what my competition was, I guess.

Was very jealous when he showed me the new car he had just bought her, but then he said I would probably be driving the car he bought for himself within the next year.

Now that he has dumped me without a word, I suspect she found out and is now VERY passionate!!

I knew he was married from mutual friend who had known him for yrs before he moved away from this area. I watched him but didn't make a move because he was married - I had no interest in getting involved with a MM. But... things have a way of happening, as we all know...and here I am with a married man. We've talked extensively about his marriage and mine (I was still legally married at the time but the H had already moved away). We've compared notes, I've listened to the dreams he had that were shelved for one reason or another, he's listened to the isolation I lived in for 20+ yrs. It's a marriage in name only but it endures for various reasons, the #1 reason, I believe, is habit.

that he was married, however he never ever compliant or talk about it.

I really have no much idea about how his relationship with W is. And I really preffer it in that way. I know they have still sexual intimacy, when I've asked him about it he has said yes, I truly preffer his honesty that a blind lie.

I suppose they had issues before me, which put them on the position of not wanting to be with her, at least not emotionally, but I preffer not asking about.

I think that is what started the whole EMR. He began confiding in me that there was NO love in the marriage. That the only reason they got married was because she was pregnant. They slept in separate rooms and rarely had sex. She didn't appreciate anything that he did for her and he tried and tried. It was all about the kids. He told her she was a great mother, but a lousy wife to him. SHe didn't care. She was always right.

I suppose I felt sorry for him. WE had developed a great friendship and the love was soon to follow.

Did you discuss his marriage in the beginning of your EMR? If so, what did you learn about his marriage? Did you ask him to talk about the marriage, did he offer information, both?

How did your perception of his marriage change throughout your EMR? Did he talk more or less about his relationship with his wife with you? Did you want to know?

Please use this section to talk about what you knew or believed about his marriage, and how that was confirmed, or changed, during or after the EMR.


At first he told me that he was happily married and had a W that "digs me." We agreed to a sex and conversation R. We didn't discuss his M for months.

My perception changed when he started to tell me more about his M. He was NOT in a happy M. She'd had a couple of EMAs. She'd flirt in front on him. It hurt him. It validated, in his mind, him having our EMA. They sounded like two people that cohabitate but aren't loving or caring. He'd volunteer at work for overtime and not take his holidays, not for the money, but so he could avoid going home. I gleened this information over a period of months, I certainly didn't ask for information. She was never a topic in her own right, rather, things were said about her as asides to other discussions. He did not want to speak about her but at times I could hear his bitterness and unhappiness. He felt guilty whenever he did say anything.

When our A 'ended' and his M was going through the death throes, he'd tell a lot more about his M, what was happening as I was the only confidant he had. He rang and told me "I'm just not there, it's not working." and "I can’t look at her and be that intimate [have sex], it's not possible. I've not masturbated either. Men aren’t like that! I'm worried. "

Now, 2 years later, having met his kids, his siblings and his parents I've heard much more. The M was dead years ago. It was sick from lack of love and care.

At the start of the relationship, he told me all about his marriage and it sounded awful. She is possessive and controlling, doesn't want him to have friends or interests, and shares almost none of his hobbies. The only thing they have in common is that they love their children, but he was resentful that they had to have kids when he was so young (she's much older).

He almost never says anything about her anymore. Around the 1 1/2 year mark, he started denying that he had actually said the things about her that he had said at the start of our affair, and he denied that things were bad or had ever been that bad.

We're at almost 3 years now, and the things that occasionally slip out when he doesn't intend them to seem to indicate to me that their relationship has gotten much worse in about the last year. I think it may have improved a bit in mid-affair, when he was all excited about us so he was probably bringing some of the happiness home; I perceived at that time that they were getting along better and having sex more. Now, he's told me point blank that they have sex about once every 4 months, if that, and he seems unhappy but not wanting to share it with me.

Did you discuss his marriage in the beginning of your EMR? If so, what did you learn about his marriage? Did you ask him to talk about the marriage, did he offer information, both?

I worked with him so I knew some basics of his marriage, his wife works for same company but different dept.I knew the kinds of superficial things you learn as coworkers. Hearing them talk on the phone, he shared vacation plans, holiday info.. I would have said with the way he spoke about his wife and family and planned things for them that he loved and respected her very much and that they had a good marriage. They had lunch together most days, carpooled to work often etc.He refered to her as a smart woman, doting mother etc.. his conversations were often peppered with "we" this or that, or he refered to her as 'my wife' or 'her name'

How did your perception of his marriage change throughout your EMR? Did he talk more or less about his relationship with his wife with you? Did you want to know?

We are still pretty much in the beginning phase of our EMR, I have known him for 10 months, physical attraction and flirting from day 1, physical about 3 months. I have noticed a difference, perhaps he thinks I will be upset but they don't do lunch anymore, he never says her name or my wife in a conversation with me, its she or her...and very little of that..he still
doesn't bash her but he has at times mentioned a few of her not endearing quirks

Please use this section to talk about what you knew or believed about his marriage, and how that was confirmed, or changed, during or after the EMR.

Thought he had a great marriage and was very happy, Now I think he feels neglected especially on a physical level..I don't know how much of this is true as I overheard a phone conversation where she refered to him with a term of endearment.
Also I know when he was giving a fellow worker advice one day before the start of our affair he said marriage has ups and downs sometimes you just have to wade through the shit knowing you will make it to the other side and he stated he had made up his mind to be married forever...last month I heard him tell another coworker(they were in a different room but I have good mommy ears)he wasn't willing to settle for just being a paycheck in a marriage. so yea Its changed...but how much of that is just the so called 'fog' I dunno

In the beginning, my MM told me he was married and yes he loved his wife, but wasn't truly happy. For some reason, unknown to me now, I never paid much attention. As our relationship progressed and he told me he loved me, he wasn't so sure he loved her as he should. He then told me he was getting a divorce and he did (he proved this). Unknown to me the divorce was planned between the two of them for financial reasons (he had a paternity suit against him for a daughter he never knew existed and they were taking $$ from his wife as well, so she suggested divorce). However, in the wife's eye the divorce was on paper and not real. He told me it was real. He lied to me about the real deal with the divorce. He did eventually wind up telling me the truth when I questioned him since he wasn't moving out. He told me that at first it was planned, but when he met me, he knew he really wanted the divorce, so to him, it was the truth. The funny thing is, until this day she referes to him as her husband. Only to aggervate me.

we rarely talk about our marriages. we shared once. that day he said he is relatively happy in his marriage and I told him I am not. sometimes he will express frustration about his wife, and I will say something bitchy about my husband; but for the most part we don't pry or probe. the marriages are separate from the affair.

We were friends for about 6 months prior to the affair. He always seemed happy in his marriage, and never said anything negative about his wife to this day. Even after the affair began I would ask him how his days off were, and what they did together, that lasted maybe another 6 months. As we fell in love with each other. We began to talk less (I wouldn't ask and he wouldn't mention anything) about his life at home because I couldn't deal with it as the more feelings came into play: jealousy, envy, and sadness.

So the talk about his homelife did come to an end after about a year.

His marriage was never a mystery to me. I have known them both for a long time. His wife is a wonderful woman.

He loves her. I love her. It helped me to walk away.

He says that he had never known real passion, and the depths of love that we had before me. He is hurting deeply not to be with me. But we have chosen the path of least carnage. He is staying faithful to his commitment, even if he did break his vow, he was vulnerable. I respect him for not abandoning her.

His marriage is nothing more than a word. He doesn't ever wear a wedding ring. The first night we were together, I was more or less under the impression it would be a one night stand. He told me that if he got a divorce, which was on the cards, I'd be the one. He told me he was seeing another girl but he'd end that now, he promised me I'd see him again.
Eventually, he started to confide in me about his marriage. He hates to because he feels it isn't fair to me, but I'm the only person he really confides in. His is a loveless marriage. It's more a matter of hanging on to what they've built, doing what they think is right by the kids.
Having recently had it all come out in the open, the more rationally I think about it, the more I see the cards are in my favour. I think she makes him feel bad about himself and I'm an antidote to that. I truly suspect too, and have done since he started confiding in me, that an infidelity on her part will come out in the open,if it isn't part of the problem already. They just aren't compatible, she loves the person she thinks she can make him be, not the person he is. I suspect that's probably why she married him in the first place. It's one of those situations, I suspect, where love was not the prime motivator behind the marriage, it was expected that would naturally come later.
He's told me that when he bought his farm it all changed. She would have been a fool to think he wouldn't choose to do it, knowing him and the family he's from. But, he says, she says it ruined them. It provided a finacial strain when he first bought it, he told me he'd been on the verge of suicide at one point. Even then he spent every weekend at the farm, but he did it alone. Eventually, he found he didn't have to be lonely. He bares his soul to me, in his own funny way. I think he just wants someone to love him. He's extraordinarily close with his oldest son who is just like his father, there's is a completely open, honest relationship free of expectations, just like his and mine. He now feels he's been forced to make a decision. Ideally, he'd just leave but I think it's that relationship with his oldest son and the idea of risking it that he can't get past. He loves all the kids, but there is something special between he and the oldest son.
Knowing their backgrounds, I think that the idea that divorce equals failure is a big thing to get past too, keeping up appearances matters at least to her. He's realised there's an alternative to their misery, I can only hope she wakes up before too long too.

they are not married.. but have been together for 4 years. he doesn't even like it when i mention her name. i think he look at being with me as a vacation from the rest of the world.. i've asked him why he cheats on her and he only says " i don't know " his girlfriend says she thinks he truley has feelings for me.. because he wants to spend time with me even if we don't have sex..

-emerald,my story is very long and complicated.. if you would like to email me i would be happy to indulge you.

I knew what his marriage was like before we got involved with each other on a serious or 'relationship' level.
I never ask him about it, except once, which was to ask when the last time was that he remembered they did something on/for their anniversary, to which his reply was : "too long ago to remember".
I know who she is, we have mutual friends. I've known them for 10 yrs. She is the typical BW. He doesn't just come out and talk about their marriage. He just talks to me on the phone about stuff like, she didnt come home, or the utility people were out to cut the power off b/c she didnt pay the bill like she said (with the $ he gave her), etc. Just him gripe-ing over things she does every now and then. I listen, that's all I do. Sorry, don't know what else there is I Can do. I feel like, if this really bothers him enough, he'll figure out on his own to leave.

My R preceded the M of MM. We had broken up but were still friends and he started seeing his future W. They got engaged. Then me and MM admitted we still loved each other and he debated going through with the M. He was not sure, because we had broken up in the past if we would stay together. W came from an old fashioned Catholic family and he beleived she would stay with him if they married. I guess his major fear was being alone. In the end though he broke off the engagement 2 days before the wedding but was pressured back into it by family and friends who probably only thought he had cold feet. He told me 2 years later he was hoping I would stand up and object during the ceremony!!!!

He said he was not in love with her, only with me. She is not a bad person although I do not see her as an innocent victim in any of this. She bought her own engagement ring and pressured him into the engagement. I know she knew he loved me when she married him.

My perception of his marriage has not changed. His has. I see it as a big mistake and so does he now.

His marrige was over before we even met.

In the beginning he would offer information and answer any questions.
The marrige was a nightmare. They both hated each other, they were barely civil to one another. They fought constantly, and sometimes violently (he never hit her, but she would hit him). The only time they could stand each other is if they were drunk.

When our EMR started he was seperated. When he fell in love with me, he left me and he went back to his wife. He said he needed to make sure that his marrige was totally dead and that he had no feelings left for W. He said if he came back to me, it needed to be for the right reasons. We rarely talked during this period of time and I didn't want to know anything about it. He never told me his reasons for going back until he decided to ask for a divorce. He also never told me he loved me until then. After a 10 month seperation. Now we never really 'discuss' his soon to be disoved marrige, but he is open with me if I have any questions about it.

I never felt guilty about the affair because I knew he didn't and that his marriage was a shame.

His wife basically told him 11 years ago that if he didn't marry her, she'd leave him. He'd just moved to the country and was 19, he had no one - he caved. I guess he's always been so spinless - or maybe she just has such a power over him.

Before we started our affair but contact was flirtatious, I asked if he'd ever done anything like this before. He said he'd kissed a girl once behind his wife's back, and that he felt guilty as hell. I said "obviously not as guilty enough to prevent you from doing it again." He then told me to forget it and said let's forget all about it - God I wish I had!

I liked to know everything about his marriage. I would constantly ask why he's having an affair, what he sees in me and not in her, why they don't have sex. Apparently his wife once said to him "You won't have sex with me becaue you feel like you're cheating on HER don't you?" She was right.

In the beginning when he was putting the "moves" on me all I heard about was how un-happy he was. He hated to go home. They never talked. She was controlling. She wouldn't let him have any money. He wasn't attracted to her. He rarely slept in the the bed. They rarely had sex. Then it was they hadn't had sex in two years.
Well after 3 years passed and I was about to go nuts and pushing him to leave her, as he had insisted he would in the beginning, his story changed. ALl of a sudden, she wasn't that bad, He could deal with it for the kids. She had been a good friend to him he said. Oh, and the women he wasn't attracted to, he suddenly started having sedx with again.

He didn't discuss his marriage initially as they were separated at the time. He told me how she and his daughter stayed at his sister's house and that divorce was imminent. Things changed when she consulted a lawyer who told her that she had abandoned the house which could influence the judge. Since then, they stay home which makes things decidedly more difficult for us.

MM has never hid his relationship status from me. He shares his trials and tribulations with me daily. As long as I don't ask what they fight about, things are fine. When I ask him what is going on, he tends to get too wrapped up in the emotional side of it and will get really upset with me despite the fact that I know he is only upset with her.

Oh the things I do for love...

Well I did ask him one question 7 years ago about why he chose to go outside of his marriage for sex. He replied, "She gives me everything I need", as if there was nothing that I could ever do for him. I was hurt when he said that and even after 7 years, I've never asked anymore questions and I've never tried to read in to his R with his W. I would love to ask him about what kind of M they have but I'm afraid of what his response may be.

It was what drew me to him initially. He hinted quite strongly that he was not happy at home when we were just casual friends. Then when we had our big on-line talk it was clear that he had not been in love with her for years - since before the children. He'd worked very long hours and hardly saw her for years and they had stopped having sex and she wasn't keen on that side of things anyway. Shortly after starting his own company he fell in love with his secretary but it was curtailed by her getting pregnant by her H. This left him sad and lonely.

She is very needy and clinging on the one hand but also hardly gives him the time of day. He does a lot of the family organisation and work even though she does not work. She spends hours on the computer talking to friends and ignorng him.

He was bored and lonely. He said his marriage only worked because he was never home. He used work as an excuse not to have to see her. He longed to have the guts to leave.

Several months into our A he had a row with her and said he wasn't sure he loved her any more. She stormed out in tears. He was stunned to realise that she still loved him. After that day she made an effort to please him. After the BU they put on the front of having a wondeful marriage to the world but 6 months later it's business as usual with added bitterness. She got him back under her thumb and now she doesn't need to try any more.

He is under her thumb. She just has to cry and scream and he'll do anything.

He will only talk about/offer information if I ask. Sometimes when we are talking he will get to talking about his children, which I have told him is ok...but I don't want to hear about "her" or the two of "them" doing things together unless I ask. He actually refers to her as "her" during any conversations we may have that involve his marriage, and the way he even says it, makes me laugh, LOL I know her name, I know what she does for work (or did, as she is now a SAHM), know tidbits about their families...but that's where it ends. My friends who know about my relationship say they would want to know more, they would want to know what she looks like, etc. But to me it doesn't matter. One time she called while we were together, and he didn't answer. She called AGAIN a few minutes later, and he wasn't going to answer, so as to not upset me- I told him that no matter how much I don't want to hear him talk to her, I would rather him talk to her than arise any suspicions if he DIDN'T call her back!

We don't discuss it--he drops little hints, but that's about it.

Actually, when we started the EMR, I didn't know he was married (again). I suppose I should have noticed something (no, not a ring or unavailability) but he's really good at keeping his 2 lives separate. I somehow assumed that because of the emotional & financial trauma caused by his 1st marriage he'd never do it again. In fact, he claims that since it's common law it doesn't really count. (And, since in our state CL was eliminated in 2001, he may have a point. However, he still lives with her, there's a child, she's know in town as his wife--what would anyone else think?)

When I discovered he was married, I went off the deep end. Not because I felt cheated on (we weren't exclusive), or that I had any illusions about our relationship (I thought about it about 4 years ago, but realized it wasn't going to work in that way). Actually, I was hurt that he hadn't told me. We had been close during his 1st divorce--I was his unofficial shrink, a sounding board who pulled no punches when telling him he was being an idiot in some of his dealings w/the XW. In fact, at one point I told him I hoped he'd find someone who mattered to him. I thought that when he did, he'd have the decency to tell me. Guess what--he didn't. I found out (3 years after the fact) through a completely unrelated conversation with his landlord.

I confronted hm with my discovery & he went into passive avoidance mode--he's REALLY good at that. That's when he gave me the spiel about the CL not counting. For a while, I wanted nothing to do with him. But, he won out over my supposed "morals." (OK, the sex is great.)

We don't talk about his marriage, I don't even know her name. He keeps telling me that he sees our relationship going on for a long time. I laugh. I know he keeps coming back to me because he has absolutely no empathy for anyone, but expects it from everyone. He says that he doesn't have sex w/the W because it's "boring." (Apparently, I'm not.) Yea, they're together because "she" got pregnant--same story as #1. Had nothing to do w/the fact that he hates condoms, did it? If I had my way, I'd make him wear 2, just to be sure. He also says she's trying to "change" him. I suppose this means she wants him to be more responsible, or more open. I never quite figured out what he means by that.

Re-reading this, I wonder why I continue to see him. I think it's curiousity. I used to think that he was one of the few good guys out there. I'm curious to figure out how I could have been so horribly wrong. Also, I'll have to admit, I am curious about the W & the home life. I've thought about trying to track them down--they live in the next county in a fairly rural area. Not so I could go Alex Forrest on him & boil their bunny (actually the W raises chickens), just out of curiousity. But sense seems to outweigh curousity. So far.

The story of their marriage makes me super sad. It breaks my heart.
he was divorced for 4 years and his XW was missing in action. So he was single parenting his 2 little boys, and was sexless and lonely. He had met her and really liked her, but figured nothing was going to happen.
It all came together circumstantially, which gives me this feeling that the two of them are meant to be.
In comparison to what he has with her, I must be chopped liver. But then again, I'm a diamond compared to the state of what they have NOW.

I am really new to this relationship, but we started off as just friends and he talked about his wife a lot then. He still is very open about sharing whatever he wants to share. But they have a love story, for sure, and I think he misses what they used to have. At first I felt like a shabby substitute compared to what they have, but I also think maybe I'm in his life (really it's THEIR life) for a reason. Maybe I'm here to help them get back, to give him back the dream of goodness and connectedness they once shared.

It sounds like they are still sorta close, but he works a lot (probably always has) and now works out of town (where I live). And she's menopausal, and totally non-sexual. He said they have sex once every 3-4 months!
I wonder what some women are THINKING sometimes. Even before I met him, I found this an appaling way to have a marriage.
He'd been faithful to her until he met me.

I like knowing about their life. It comforts me somehow. Like if she could luck out with a guy like him, then maybe there are more men like him out there (but I'd never let my H live out of town without being part of it somehow).
It sounds like currently, he needs her to help care for his boys, and he realizes she loves him and is dependent on him completely, emotionally, and financially.
She knows what side her bread is buttered on.

I knew my MM and his wife for approx 3 years before dating him or taking ANY interest in him whatsoever.

I used to babysit for them and spend some time with them as I had friends who lived next door to them. I'd been out on their boat a few times, attended ther sons birthday party twice, but most of the interaction I had with them consisted of me coming over to watch their son while they went out for the night. All I knew of them is that they liked going out and did so often. Looking back, I rarely saw them be affectionate with one another. I didn't notice any yelling or fighting but never huggy, kissy, hand holding...affection. I believe I saw them kiss once and it was after his W felt something might have been going on...but before anything actually was.

He had come to me within the first few months of me working for him that he was having problems with his W and his M. She had brought her parents over from their home country and into their marital home. In-laws living with you would certainly cause distress on any relationship. They didnt speak english, were old, W's dad was mostly deaf, and they didn't have much financial means. So...MM had to save them and pay for EVERYTHING. Cell phones, groceries, rent...etc. They brought their dog and eventually sent over ALL OF THEIR STUFF that was in their home country. MM's house was flooded with boxes. Eventually he moved them into another home he owned and charged them half of his mortgage for that property...guess who was paying the other half.

MM complained to me that she had turned stupid. Since having their son, she knew the cartoons on tv better than real world knowledge. He'd ask her to help him complete simple tasks and by the third or fourth try she still couldn't get it right. She stopped working 6 months after they were dating and never went back...even 6 years after the birth of their son.

I genuinely believe there was a breakdown long before I entered the picture. Whether he tried to make it work or not...I don't know. Probably not. I'm sure when I came around I was looked at as an easier option than sticking around and trying to make magic happen.

We didn't talk much about their marriage...some...but I didn't push or ask too many questions. I just wanted him to be sure this is what he really wanted and had exhausted all hope.

We talked alot about his marriage all throughout our affair. He said he was happily married fpr 28 years to his best friend but missed the passion that died years ago. when the affair started he said to me remember I love my wife. I never lost sight of that and because although I grew to love him deeply did not want him to leave her.

i knew he was married and told him from the first time that i didnt want to know anything at all.
after about 5mths i felt that his not being allowed to mention his situation was forming a barrier, so in a one off question and answer session i learnt as much as i needed and he relaxed. i was surprised to hear how sad his home life was, he didnt lay it on thick, but i am a trained interviewer and by asking the right questions i got the answers. somebody said that the imagined is greater than the truth and in this case it was. i thought he had a so so relationship when in reality its crap.
its never been mentioned again.

(before we started being intimate with each other) he always emphasized that he loved his wife and that he would never betray her. We got intimate about 2 months later and he was devastated on one hand about his betrayal towards his wife, but extremely happy "to have found me" on the other. He simply didn't know what had happened to him and why he was where he was at that point. We tried to analyze his motives, his marriage, my motives and our relationship many times over time. One of the red threads throughout was his realization that he never had any good communication with his wife throughout his marriage of 17 yrs. He had never told her that he loved her (I believe she didn't either). They never discussed their feelings or anything alike. Basically, they lived side by side and did most things together without ever talking to each other. When I observed their interaction, which I had plenty opportunity to do, I hardly ever saw them talk to one another and if they had any kind of exchange it was in a very strange sort of way. Often, it was just her criticizing him about something he should do or should have done, or why he wasn't doing it in a different kind of way, etc.

Throughout our relationship of 3 yrs., we often talked about his marriage. Nevertheless, nothing ever seemed to change one way or the other, except that after about 2 yrs. he started having great doubts that his marriage would ever be salvageable. He never got to the point where he was ready to face his real problems though and he tried to just ignore them as much as he possibly could. Well, after 3 yrs., I basically forced him to take a good look at his marriage and himself, because I revealed the affair to his wife. That was about 3 weeks ago. I haven't heard or seen or read anything from him or her since. I assume that he is begging her for forgiveness right now and they'll continue on they way they were. He's probably mad as hell at me for revealing the affair, but that's ok with me.