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Any "roll-your-own" cigarette smokers here? New law taxes RYO machine cigs...

July 6 2012 at 3:13 PM
Lee Griffin  (Login leegee_77)
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from IP address 199.72.20.10

...the same as manufactured cigarettes. Interesting progression: Cigarette tobacco taxes were hiked by the Feds, but pipe tobacco wasn't, so the 'roll-your-own' stores popped up with folks buying pipe tobacco and rolling their own with machines supplied by the stores. The new law backed by cigarette companies shuts this down by taxing RYO cigarettes the same as manufactured cigarettes and by requiring the stores to get licenses to operate the machines.

I don't smoke, so I wasn't in the know about the 'roll-your-own' machines.

http://www.lvrj.com/business/roll-your-own-cigarette-operations-to-be-snuffed-out-161539845.html?numComments=15


http://www.suntimes.com/business/13589276-420/roll-your-own-cigarette-stores-going-up-in-smoke.html

Excerpt:

On Friday, President Barack Obama is expected to sign into law a federal highway bill with a section that redefines tobacco manufacturers to include any business with a roll-your-own cigarette machine and taxes those products at the same rate as packaged smokes.






    
This message has been edited by leegee_77 from IP address 199.72.20.10 on Jul 6, 2012 3:15 PM


 
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AuthorReply
Bo Roberts
(Login jabow1)
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Deleted N/T

July 6 2012, 3:51 PM 


 
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(Login modeldad)
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Nope, only you Bo. LOL...... nt

July 6 2012, 3:53 PM 



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Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
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(Login modeldad)
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I'd be happy to see tobacco and related stuff taxed to the sky

July 6 2012, 3:53 PM 

all smokers do is raise my health care premiums or taxes if they are uninsured. If they are going to smoke, let them pay for all the consequences.

If they are gun owners I'd rather they put the end of the barrel in their mouth and pull the trigger. Save a lot of future expense and aggravation.



Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
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I have seen it postulated that smokers die younger and actually cost less...

July 6 2012, 4:15 PM 

...in the long-run because they don't incur the expensive end-of-life heroics. Just a thought: I don't really know. I tend to side with you that tocacco use costs all of us more, like obesity.

Cheers,

Lee G.


 
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Graeme Davidson
(Login gcdavidson)
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heard the same

July 6 2012, 4:29 PM 

And also that athletes also impose a higher burden on healthcare with sports related injuries and follow-on care.



GD

 
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(Login sanmigmike)
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I know someone that works in a grocery store

July 6 2012, 4:37 PM 

so she can get health insurance for her retired pro-athlete husband. As an aside she hates Obama care and I find that a bit strange since of course a lot of their problems had to do with preexisting conditions and other things that were addressed by that. She hates her job and her insurance (she lets you know that her job is well beneath her and she also feels her fellow workers are pond scum) but she has been there for 14 years and she says it is just for the insurance.

 
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(Login ResinPrince)
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If you drive without car insurance

July 6 2012, 4:58 PM 

Many do here in Texas cause well... Anyway if you have none and have an accident, will State Farm, Geico etc cover your damage after the fact? Why should a insurance company cover something after it happens?

I really would like to hear an explanation

As to Smokers. It has long been known it is not healthy so why then does the Nanny State not outlaw their sale? Cause they want the tax money!!! Why is it OK to make an ordinance against letting someone smoke in your bar? If ya don't like cigarette smoke , stay out of the bar!

 
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(Login modeldad)
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Mike. totally different.

July 6 2012, 5:05 PM 

You have insurance because people driving cars have accidents. A known fact. Driving the car is a per-existing condition. Even people who have multiple accidents get thrown in an high risk insurance pool.

The issue id that if you have a condition and are covered by insurance, and you should lose that insurance, then an insurance company can reuse to sell you a private policy. The real issue is the loss of insurance.

But there is a problem with so many who could not get insurance. They are nothing more to a burden. I'm paying for their condition when they show up in the ER having trouble breathing, or bleeding or whatever.



No one said the rates would be the same as a healthy person.



Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
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That does it! No more exercise, and I'm hitting the booze and smokes! :-) n/t

July 6 2012, 4:38 PM 

n/t

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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you can't be serious; really? LL,nt

July 6 2012, 4:42 PM 

wer

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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I seriously doubt there's any truth to that statisticly. First off....

July 6 2012, 4:38 PM 

they don't charge old cancer, emphysema or other illness patients any more than they do younger ones. Secondly smoking deaths usually come late in life anyway. That's my $.02 worth of thoughts on the subject. I'd also add that cost isn't the only issue. Would be more helpful if you cited a source or statistics instead of "well that's what I heard". This time though (for once) I'm not ragging you, I honestly think that's likely to be skewed analysis. cheers, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
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Right, like I said, it's something I've heard, but it could be complete BS...

July 6 2012, 4:52 PM 

...and I'm inclined to disbelieve it. It's probably something conconcted by a pro-tobacco lobby or something. Personally, I think that quitting tobacco is the lowest hanging of all fruit in making society as a whole healthier. Over-eating probably causes more problems overall, but that's a much tougher one to tackle.

Cheers,

Lee G.

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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yeh it's bad stuff alright but, although an extremely unpopular thought...

July 6 2012, 6:19 PM 

the removal of alcohol (potable that is) would likely remove more destruction,pain and misery from the earth. Never fly though. cheers, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login bondo455)
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I dunno.......

July 7 2012, 9:43 AM 

Working as a teenager in my family's large Pittsburgh funeral home in the 50s, I got to see deceased smokers of many ages. Our embalmer, Elmer, would come into work (in his shiny, black Coupe deVille) at 0730 and cough his lungs out in the garage for about ten minutes. Then he'd resume smoking his unfiltered Luckies. Elmer lived to eighty-five, and we used to joke that his lungs had been pre-embalmed by all the formaldehyde body cavity powder he had breathed in for decades... happy.gif

Phil
As we used to say, "Remember, I'll be the last to let'cha down!"

 
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(Login BrunoSchielzeth)
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Not worth the time to respond. But just because you don't like something

July 6 2012, 4:37 PM 

doesn't make it wrong, illegal, or taxable to the max. I don't like green peas, chicken gizzards, or avocados so that gives me the right to tax them, shoot those that like them, or ban them completely? It must be nice to have that much power over a legal personal choice of others.

[linked image] Illegitimi non carborundum
In memory of Denis Keegan.

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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well you could consider that smoking is easily proven to....

July 6 2012, 4:41 PM 

be an enormous burden on the rest of us. Second hand smoke is proven to cause illness and harm to others; where's their freedom of choice? Blowing up bridges is a possible "choice" also but I doubt you consider that an "individual right". just sayin', LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login ResinPrince)
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Blowin up bridges is against the Law

July 6 2012, 5:01 PM 

Smoking for now is not.

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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let me get this straight, you're sayin' I can't blow up bridges!!!? lol, cheers, Len,nt

July 6 2012, 6:21 PM 

lkj;lk

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login BrunoSchielzeth)
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For what it's worth, living is an enormous burden on all of us.

July 6 2012, 5:11 PM 

We could save so much money if everyone just died at age 6. Fast food, salt, liquor, fatty meats, mushrooms, chips, bacon, mercury tainted fish are all bad for us. In most parts of the world even the very air is bad for us. The fact is that the moment you are born you start to die. If I chose to drink good wine, enjoy a cigarette in my own home, and eat the fat on a pork chop is no one else's concern. It's not illegal. I don't smoke in restaurants. I don't guzzle cheap booze and drive. What I do at home in my free time is up to me. The fact is that I'd love to start a bar in town that made it illegal NOT to smoke inside of it! Non-smokers would be fined for walking into the place. I could sell bacon, bacon, and cheese sandwiches and sell cheap beer by the pitcher full. I'd supply free taxi rides home since all patrons would have to pass a breathalyzer test before they got their keys back, and they had better not be sober or I would fine them for not drinking.

I smoke. I drink. I own guns, and know how to use them effectively. I like crispy pork chops and bacon. And I will fight anyone that says I can't enjoy any of them in my own home.

You don't like smokers? Fine. Don't come over to my house because I smoke. I don't care. It's no skin off my back. I'll be happy and you'll be happy. And we can all go on with life.


[linked image] Illegitimi non carborundum
In memory of Denis Keegan.

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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other than the health issue I got no problem with you smoking .....

July 6 2012, 6:25 PM 

on your own and/or at home. There's not much logic in your statement but I value peoples freedom to do what pleases them more than any draconian ban on ALL smoking. FWIW, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login maxfinn)
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I've got no problem what ever with what you do in your own home...

July 6 2012, 10:14 PM 

As you say, I just won't come in.

What I do have a problem with is when I'm subjected to second hand smoke. And what I do have a problem with is that my insurance premiums are higher than they need to be to cover care for those who do smoke and can't afford to pay the cost themselves.

If you've got the resources to pay for your own care, and you smoke where it doesn't affect anyone else, then light right up.

In the meantime, I think a heavy tax on smoking via taxing cigarettes is just fine. I just wish that we knew that money was going into the healthcare pool.

Mike

 
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(Login modeldad)
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None of those things are known to cause cancer, emphysima, heart attack and death

July 6 2012, 4:59 PM 

or any combination thereof.

It is a burden on the rest of us. The smoker cost me. Smoking is not a right.



Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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(Login Obadiah)
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is it not right

July 6 2012, 5:02 PM 

because it costs you? Or because it impacts you?

In the former, I would say the SYSTEM is not right.
In the latter- I would say "yet?"

"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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(Login modeldad)
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Both.

July 6 2012, 5:11 PM 

at least second had smoke is being eliminated.

And that the ER cost me when the guy stumbles in with breathing problems or terminal cancer. Treatment cost me, unless he is fully insured.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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(Login Obadiah)
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would you like to be the one

July 6 2012, 5:16 PM 

who turns them away? "yep, you have COPD, but it says here you didn't pay in to a system...too bad, get out!"

"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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(Login modeldad)
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No, that is the problem.

July 6 2012, 5:24 PM 

Some hospital do turn them away, in effect. Minimal intake procedure and then out on the street. They have the call as to life threatening, and that call may not be made appropriately, especially if the hospital considers its finances.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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he never implied any such thing. What he has subtly advocated...

July 6 2012, 8:57 PM 

is a national system that's best for ALL not just some; not all that heartless when you consider it eh? cheers, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login ResinPrince)
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I wouldn't bet on it...

July 6 2012, 5:16 PM 

In California at least, it is known to the state that most everything including breathing may cause cancer!
and the warning labels are spreading. We should outlaw drinking big gulps, oh wait they are already working on that.

What was the reasoning behind the government mandate to put warning labels on a pack of cigarettes for anyway? What good did it do? That started back in the 60s didn't it? You are an adult you have smoked all your life dispite the warning on the pack and in the news etc. You get lung cancer, you blame the tobacco company? How is that their fault, you were warned, you chose to disregard the warning and now you are dieing from that disregard. So why should they be forced to pay you millions in damages? As a tobacco company you followed the rules, you are selling a legal product, you warned your customer about the danger.


 
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(Login modeldad)
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Re: I wouldn't bet on it...

July 6 2012, 5:27 PM 

Mike, sometimes wonder, and scratch my head. There is a difference between a known carcinogen and a suspected carcinogen.

BTW, you must be getting old. Forgot all those health benefits of cigarettes shown in ads? The cigarette company is less liable because of the warning, but society bears the burden.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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Tom Finley
(Login R-2800)
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The reasoning behind the warning?

July 7 2012, 7:33 PM 

To get people to quit. I think it worked, up to a point.

[linked image]

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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now there ya go! Using bloody facts instead of the......

July 8 2012, 12:35 PM 

entirely more satisfying emotions and defensive cliches. cheers, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login Gluehuffer)
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Not worth the time to respond.

July 7 2012, 12:00 AM 

Yet you did.

 
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Jim Mc
(Login Obadiah)
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Once upon a time, I wanted to buy a coupe

July 6 2012, 4:55 PM 

So, I went about and got insurance quotes. Sadly partly because it was a coupe, that implied "sports car", so they (the insurance company) said it would, as such, cost a little extra.

I resigned myself to a 4 door Eagle Summit (Mitsu Mirage rebadged). The rates were even higher! I said "WTH? This costs more than the 2 door coupe!" Their reply- "Ah, well, ya see, these cars are a cast iron bear to fix after an accident, so we have to charge more because of that...."

The point is, no matter what, yer gonna pay. And pay dearly. Get used to the fact....

"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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(Login witous)
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Another POV Steve. and here's the problem....

July 6 2012, 10:53 PM 

First of all, I do not smoke and can't stand being around it.

In California, they want to put a $1.00 tax on a pack of cigarettes. Sounds good right. Not really, they will tax it to a point where the number of smokers may go down and enforcement cost of bootlegged Marlboroughs go through the roof. But because our incompetent legislature believes in deficit spending, they will spend it on various health and rehab programs with no oversight. With the decline in revenue from the tax, guess where they will go to support these programs? More taxes on all of us or they will rob it away from other projects. I am still trying to figure out where the gas tax money went that we are still paying about $23 per gallon. Our roads and freeways are turning into sh*t because this money is going to pensions.

They said that the cigarette tax will fund "awareness" on the bad effects of smoking. Right! All you need is to bring a lung of a 40 year smoker into a 5th grade class and show them what it does. How much does it cost to say "smoking is one of the most addictive habits there is and it will kill you"

Wow, I kinda got carried away. Sorry about that.



Mike Witous

S.F.

Visit us at: http://www.meetup.com/TemValModClub/
Temecula Valley Model Club
"Haud Sceptrum, Haud Sentio, Haud Forsit

 
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(Login mass22)
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The bootlegging argument would be amusing

July 7 2012, 12:38 AM 

Were it not shot down by the fact that most states already tax tobacco more than California does. Where they gonna get the bootleg cigs? Mars?

The bottom line for me is that smokers do not foot the real cost to society of what they do. Beyond that, there is no discernible benefit to anyone from smoking. Oh, they enjoy it? Simply illustrates the human capacity for addiction and self-delusion. Plenty of other ways to spend money on one's self-satisfaction without poisoning one's self, family and the general public, while destroying productivity, running up medical expenses and littering the countryside with pollution-filled butts.

Smoke 'em you got 'em. And pay the full cost of your filthy habit while you're at it.

"Don't take your life too seriously, son. At the end of it, you won't be alive anyway."

Red Skelton's mother

 
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(Login witous)
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Cigarettes are illegally coming into California from Mexico at about $10.00 a carton.

July 7 2012, 1:35 AM 

They are smuggled in by rail and truck into California, Arizona and Texas. As far as the cost of a pack of cigarettes in the states go, I did a quick web search and there are many states where a pack is around $3.15 ( Indiana, MS, SD. ND.AL etc.) California is closer to $5 a pack. Back in the day, I had civilian friends who would ask me to buy cigarettes at the PX because it saved them about $.75 a carton.

My nephew works a dog team at the port of Los Angeles for U.S. Customs and Border Patrol. They can not train the dogs to sniff out tobacco because it is so prevalent. They would go nuts with all the butts on the ground from the longshoremen. They are starting to to see tobacco smuggled in from Asia on some of the big cargo ships.

Where a buck can be made on an addiction, people will bring it in.

Mike Witous

S.F.

Visit us at: http://www.meetup.com/TemValModClub/
Temecula Valley Model Club
"Haud Sceptrum, Haud Sentio, Haud Forsit

 
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(Login modeldad)
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Bootleg everything comes in.

July 7 2012, 8:45 AM 

NYC is foll of gray market and knock offs that hurt the tax base and legitimate business.

Bootleg CD, Perfume and other luxury goods subject to luxury excise tax, etc.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
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(Login mass22)
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Mexico is what it is

July 10 2012, 12:40 AM 

And bootleg cigarettes are hardly the worst problem emanating from there. If we ever solve any of those issues, the cigs will come out in the wash. As for all those flyover states a thousand miles away, if someone is trying to make money trucking them all that way, then it's presumably because they're desperate to get something approaching minimum wage, and I applaud them for trying to earn a living. The fat dumb and crooked types will not be doing that.

"Don't take your life too seriously, son. At the end of it, you won't be alive anyway."

Red Skelton's mother

 
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Norm Nattrass
(Login NormInToronto)
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What seems to be ignored in this thread is the fact ...

July 7 2012, 9:53 AM 

...that various levels of government reap billions of dollars in taxes a year on the sale of tobacco and alcohol in just about every civilized nation in the world - a significant factor, in my mind, for governments to bypass the opportunity to make them illegal. Current public awareness campaigns sponsored by the government and professing to attempt to curtail smoking are hypocritical in the extreme.

We are now acutely aware of the dangers of consuming these products, but that knowledge was not always so widespread. As recently as the 1960's smoking was all pervasive and tolerated in virtually all areas of polite society. The dangers of consumption were NOT widely discussed - even deliberately concealed by both government and the tobacco industry. The result - a vast pool of consumers addicted to the substance with little chance of breaking the habit. It's been mooted that tobacco is far more addictive that alcohol or even hard drugs such as heroin, and that the success rate of breaking the tobacco habit is consequently far lower.

The effort to "tax the problem out of existence" is both unrealistic and supremely hypocritical - but the type of tactic we've come to expect from our political masters.

He who dies with the most toys wins!!

 
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(Login neoteepo)
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all so painfully true; still...we are the gov. and the gov. is US. sad eh? cheers, LL,nt

July 7 2012, 12:57 PM 

lkj

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login Obadiah)
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I am no expert on RYO, BUT.....

July 6 2012, 4:59 PM 

I know that some tobbaconists are rolling smokes in store for customers. I think this is where the tax will come in. I know a home RYYO machine runs from 25 to 150 bucks, depending on quality. RYO machines were huge in prisons, until they made the inmates quit (at least in Ohio). So, the monetary unit of choice now.... Little Debbie Snack cakes!!!!




"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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(Login ResinPrince)
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So are those that roll

July 6 2012, 5:04 PM 

their own Doobies gonna have to pay higher taxs on their Zig Zags now? That just ain't right!

 
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(Login Obadiah)
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zig zag?

July 6 2012, 5:06 PM 

come off it man! It's 2012! the tube is pre-formed.all you gotta do is jam your cut up leaf of choice down the tube (it works alot like an 18th century gun.....

"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
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It looks like the law pertains to the in-store machines and services...

July 6 2012, 5:05 PM 

...and, if I read between the lines, loose tobacco could be taxed in such a way that paying taxes comparable to that of manufactured cigarettes would be unavoidable, even for pipe smokers. Which would suck for pipe smokers...

Lee G.

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

But pipe is a very, very, very (to x power) small segment and is not a "cigarette".

July 6 2012, 5:09 PM 



Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
199.72.20.10

It still sucks for the pipe smokers that they may have to pay the same...

July 6 2012, 5:14 PM 

...for loose tobacco as they would if they were buying cigarettes, right? Are we on the same page? I realize they are a miniscule percentage of smokers.

Cheers,

Lee G.

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

Tobacco is tobacco, as for pipe smoker.

July 6 2012, 5:23 PM 

There is still issues of lip, mouth, tongue, and throat cancer. Second hand smoke is an issue.

The deadliest combination is smoking and drinking as far as oral cancers are concerned. Superheated smoke and alcohol, one or the other serves as cancer's catalyst.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
199.72.20.10

Okay, then can we not apply your same philosophy to the fine wines you enjoy?...

July 6 2012, 5:33 PM 

...since we know that alcohol consumption has ill effects?

For example, I shall change three words (in caps) in your sentence from one of your posts above:

"I'd be happy to see WINE and related stuff taxed to the sky...

all DRINKERS do is raise my health care premiums or taxes if they are uninsured. If they are going to DRINK, let them pay for all the consequences."

Slippery slope?

Cheers,

Lee G.



 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

well there is a strong counter argument.

July 6 2012, 5:39 PM 

Cigarette smoking is not one of moderation.

Wine in moderation has health benefits.

Wine is taxed at Fed and State levels plus sales tax.. (No sales tax in MA as it is considered a food, result of may Italian governors - Republicans). No sales tax in NH or DE as well.

Wine is not a proven carcinogen. Not even sure it is a suspected carcinogen. Although it can harm the liver, in abnormally high quantity.




Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
199.72.20.10

Fair enough. n/t

July 6 2012, 5:41 PM 

n/t

 
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Jim Mc
(Login Obadiah)
HyperScale Forums
204.86.64.67

hate to mince words, but....

July 6 2012, 5:40 PM 

Alcohol "consumption" per se doesn't have ill effects
Alcohol "Abuse"...yeah, there are ill effects.....


"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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(Login modeldad)
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71.245.227.142

One other thing, looks like Big Tobacco was an impetus in the tax.

July 6 2012, 5:07 PM 

They want a level playing field. Smoke a cigarette, no matter how it is made or with what tobacco, it should all be treated the same.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
199.72.20.10

But is that not crony capitalism? The government just did a solid for "big tobacco..."

July 6 2012, 5:26 PM 

...by putting smaller competitors out of business. How is that a good thing?

Lee G.

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

It's not. But that is the way it has worked and continues to work

July 6 2012, 5:29 PM 

Talk to the Koch brothers.

You want socialism? Nah. I want T.R.



Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

I'm off to have some fresh Martha's Vinyard Oysters and a home made fresh Gimlet

July 6 2012, 5:31 PM 

I open them myself. Cold and fresh.

Discussion over for me.

Just another no end lounge thing.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
199.72.20.10

Yeah, after suggesting that gunowners shoot themselves in the head...

July 6 2012, 5:36 PM 

...there's not much room left for a debate.

Enjoy your oysters.

Lee G.

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

I did not say that at all. Lets not distort

July 6 2012, 5:40 PM 

I said smokers who own guns might as well .....

Most of this is ......

and I will enjoy them.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
199.72.20.10

Thanks for the clarification. :-) n/t

July 6 2012, 5:42 PM 

n/t

 
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(Login Obadiah)
HyperScale Forums
204.86.64.67

come on Steve!!!!

July 6 2012, 5:42 PM 

you lit the fuse!


Have a great evening!

"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

Didn't light it,

July 7 2012, 8:53 AM 

but stood by with gasoline to make sure it didn't go out.

Thanks, and I did. Oysters were cold and briny.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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(Login wymanv)
HyperScale Forums
69.146.2.70

I'm off to have a Newport. Just for you. n/t

July 6 2012, 7:41 PM 

nm

tbdsmall.jpg

 
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(Login bondo455)
HyperScale Forums
66.68.57.43

A true story, Steven.....

July 7 2012, 9:54 AM 

Circa 1958 I was told to drive our funeral home flower car up along the Allegheny River to pick up a body from a hospital. When I arrived, the doctor was still doing the autopsy in the morgue, so I watched. He called me over to his side and showed me little bunches of black, grape-looking growths all around the spine where the man's lungs had been. "See, Phil," he casually said as he continued using his scalpel, "this is what happens when you're a lifetime smoker and live in a heavily industrialized area." As he spoke, a long, menthol Kool dangled from his lips, the smoke rising up to his eyes....... happy.gif

Phil

 
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(Login neoteepo)
HyperScale Forums
70.145.155.17

that's why it's correctly called a drug addiction; amazing story. Here's another...

July 7 2012, 12:47 PM 

not so cool (no puns honest) perhaps but I remember many a routine trip to our family physician as a kid and having him administer exams or treatments with a cigarette either in his mouth or in the ash tray on the table. Never thought a thing of it at the time. Guess that's what it means to get old; the past can be seen more clearly.?? cheers, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login bondo455)
HyperScale Forums
66.68.57.43

When I went to see the Bergstrom flight surgeon circa 1983........

July 7 2012, 1:35 PM 

I had been having aching pains in my shoulder during morning runs. The flight surgeon checked me out and said that it was probably a pinched nerve or "in my mind" (even though I told him my father had died at age 39 from an MI). He made his "diagnosis" as he put out a cigarette in a well-filled large ash tray on his desk. As soon as I retired a year later, I went to a highly regarded civilian cardiologist--am still with his large practice twenty-eight years, a triple bypass, two stents and a pacemaker later--who, after a detailed "workup" of my forty-six year-old bod, summarized my condition with the equivalent of, "Boy, you in a lotta trouble!" I credit him and medical science for preventing said bod from emulating that of my long-deceased dad.

Phil


 
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(Login neoteepo)
HyperScale Forums
70.145.155.17

and I hope you stay well for a very long time to come....

July 7 2012, 3:42 PM 

just recently began having some angina after strenuous exercise and an elevated heart rate w/palpitations. Turns out I have the rare condition of hypeRthyroidism (hypOthyroidism being much more common). Doc want's to put me on Beta Blockers but, so far I'm resisting that one. Best, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
50.55.158.161

I wish you the best, Len: I had a cardiac ablation last year to correct flutter...

July 7 2012, 11:22 PM 

...so far, so good: Occasional palpitations, but the heart is strong.

Regards,

Lee G.

 
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(Login neoteepo)
HyperScale Forums
70.145.155.17

Thanks, I appreciate your sentiment and wish you all the best also. The one thing...

July 8 2012, 12:05 AM 

I'd like to do is find that guy who coined the phrase "The Golden Years" and give him a piece of my mind! lol, cheers, Len

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
50.55.158.161

Yeah, I think that was the same guy who said "Size doesn't matter." :-) n/t

July 8 2012, 7:11 PM 

n/t

 
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(Login neoteepo)
HyperScale Forums
70.145.155.17

well how's this? I just answered my own post! Yeah, Golden Years alright! cheers, Len,n

July 8 2012, 8:57 PM 

j;lk

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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(Login neoteepo)
HyperScale Forums
70.145.155.17

I've been told "that's what she said"! cheers, LL, nt

July 8 2012, 8:54 PM 

kj;l

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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John Meyer
(Login Don_Kiyoti)
HyperScale Forums
70.190.4.141

Please tell me you make your gimlets with gin!

July 7 2012, 4:33 PM 

The way God and Raymond Chandler intended, and not with that "vodka" stuff!

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

Plymouth Gin when I feel getting dressed up, and Segram's when slumming.

July 7 2012, 5:23 PM 

with fresh squeezed limes and simple sugar syrup.

Vodka, other than straight and served from the freezer with caviar, or smoked salmon, I never drink the stuff.

I hope I don't offend anyone, but I consider it the drink of choice for alcoholics.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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Anonymous
(Login do-bee)
HyperScale Forums
99.53.134.247

Somebody tell me how highway funds have anything to do with smoking?....nt

July 6 2012, 6:17 PM 



Old Digger Pilot

 
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(Login wymanv)
HyperScale Forums
69.146.2.70

Me too. n/t

July 6 2012, 7:50 PM 

nm

tbdsmall.jpg

 
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Jim Mc
(Login Obadiah)
HyperScale Forums
204.86.64.67

Looks like one o' them thar "riders"

July 6 2012, 8:11 PM 

that git hitched on to bills to sneak them through congress........

"The FANS are fighting back!!!"
"The SECURITY GUARDS are fighting back!!!"
"The PEANUT VENDORS are fighting back!!!"

 
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(Login MikeMaben)
HyperScale Forums
71.236.218.217

People smoke while driving don't they ? See how EZ it is ? (nt)

July 8 2012, 12:19 AM 

.

 
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(Login swluce)
HyperScale Forums
216.81.94.76

I'm with Maodeldad all the way...

July 6 2012, 6:21 PM 

Driving a car is risky as is flying on a plane. But they are risks deemed by rational people planet-wide to be necessary to the conduct of everyday life. Risky behaviour the only purpose of which is self indulgence or psychological weakness (unprotected anal sex / stuffing your face / pickling your liver / turning your forearms into pin cushions / loading up on the carcinogens / etc., etc., etc.) is behaviour which is conclusively proven to cause long-term catastrophic illnesses and subsequently stratospheric health care costs for which the self-indulgent alone should pay...

 
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(Login neoteepo)
HyperScale Forums
70.145.155.17

In "principle" I agree totally but....alas....like so many other...

July 8 2012, 12:31 PM 

simplified ideas it's hard to put into any practical form. For one thing all the lines get real blurry real fast in trying to decide where to draw them. Certainly though I'm in favor of what can be done like making some of the most obvious vices costly through taxation. cheers, LL

So a friend says: "cheer up things could be worse; so I cheered up and sure as hell Things Got Worse!

 
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Anonymous
(Login seafirexv)
HyperScale Forums
75.81.202.90

uhh... this turned into a rather lively thread eh?

July 6 2012, 11:04 PM 


 
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Steven Flowers
(Login steven9)
HyperScale Forums
71.165.113.133

I stayed out of this, and glad I did!! n/t

July 7 2012, 2:13 AM 


 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

Actually, yes! Avoided "politics" and political labels, stuck to the issue

July 7 2012, 8:50 AM 

A heated discussion about the taxation of tobacco and related products.

I had a similar discussion in 10th grade debating class. Nothing changes.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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Lee Griffin
(Login leegee_77)
HyperScale Forums
50.55.158.161

How did the future counselor fare? A cunning display of oratory no doubt? :-) n/t

July 7 2012, 11:38 PM 

n/t

 
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(Login NormInToronto)
HyperScale Forums
70.49.172.153

Actually, everything changes. While you were debating the issue...

July 8 2012, 6:50 AM 

...in tenth grade, people could still light up in a Hospital for crying out loud. There are times when your concept of the "issues" seem to be limited to your personal likes or dislikes with little or no factual support. Not a particularly effective debating strategy, I would have thought.

He who dies with the most toys wins!!

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

Re: Actually, everything changes. While you were debating the issue...

July 8 2012, 9:05 AM 

Gee Norm, notice I didn't list that we avoided personal attacks and insults. Thanks for verifying I was correct.

Your point is? Was?

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



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(Login NormInToronto)
HyperScale Forums
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Gee Steve, I'm thinking inviting smokers with guns ...

July 8 2012, 12:07 PM 

...to blow their own heads off, could justifiably be considered a broad-based personal attack - welcome to the dark side. What pertinent issue, exactly, were you addressing with that comment?

He who dies with the most toys wins!!

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

Only if you are a smoker who owns a gun

July 8 2012, 9:11 PM 

otherwise, you have no gripe, but one will arise, I'm sure.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
http://tinyurl.com/Ididntseeitcoming

 
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Bo Roberts
(Login jabow1)
HyperScale Forums
108.68.38.147

It set a 'precedence'.

July 7 2012, 9:45 AM 

Our laws are set by previous cases. What's next????

Bo

 
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(Login modeldad)
HyperScale Forums
71.245.227.142

You need to clarify that. Judicial decisions or Congress.

July 7 2012, 2:30 PM 

As a common law nation we do base our legal decisions on previous rulings, precedent. Unless, at some point, the law is found to be wrong.

Congress is not under any obligation to follow a precedent. It may have value, but following or building upon what came before is a mere justification.

Photobucket [linked image]

There is no such thing as an unbuildable kit, just some kits one may consider not worth building.

Ive realized that most people ... tend not to be direct when they feel something is shoddy because they want to be liked, "which is actually a vain trait".
[Walter Isaacson's (author of Steve Jobs) recounting of his interview with Jony Ive, Chief Designer at Apple @ page p. 461]



BUY THIS BOOK
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(Login swluce)
HyperScale Forums
99.190.96.106

"precedent" is the noun; "precedence" is a state of being / verb ... n/t

July 8 2012, 11:08 AM 


 
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(Login dgcantrell)
HyperScale Forums
71.171.33.51

I ain't rolled one since..

July 7 2012, 6:52 PM 

High School.. Oh wait, you're talking tobacco.. Nevermind.. wink.gif

But seriously, I can't stand cigarettes. Period. The chemicals they put in the paper are more dangerous than the friggin tobacco. Oh, and don't get me started on those STINKING Menthols....

The only time I smoke (if you can call it that) is when we go camping or something. A nice Swisher Sweet or if someone brings some good cigars, yeah, I'll smoke one...

Whoever was the first one to pick this stuff up, light it, and inhale the smoke and LIKE it was an idiot...

But. Taxing the stuff into oblivion isn't the answer...

Cheers,
Dave

 
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(Login willc453)
HyperScale Forums
75.15.219.28

Taxing tobacco---then max tax alcohol

July 8 2012, 2:57 PM 

How many people die from either drinking too much or killing someone because they've been drinking?

 
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Bo Roberts
(Login jabow1)
HyperScale Forums
108.68.38.147

And how many have cell phones killed?? N/T

July 8 2012, 5:34 PM 


 
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Dave Cantrell
(Login dgcantrell)
HyperScale Forums
71.171.37.169

This just in...

July 8 2012, 6:40 PM 

A recent multi-million dollar study has just confirmed that birth, yes, birth is the leading cause of death in not only humans, but every living thing on the planet..

 
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(Login mass22)
HyperScale Forums
68.164.80.183

Ah, but you know

July 10 2012, 12:47 AM 

We're all immortal--until we aren't. Probably explains the vast amount of denial about death.

"Don't take your life too seriously, son. At the end of it, you won't be alive anyway."

Red Skelton's mother

 
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Current Topic - Any "roll-your-own" cigarette smokers here? New law taxes RYO machine cigs...
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