I didn't want to hijack cln's thread so I'll start a new one.
Just wanted to mention what my WS said to me after I confronted him after dday#1. He said that if I hadn't caught him he'd have CONTINUED having A's with different women (flying to be with them for one week trysts)every year.
After dday#3 he's pretty much gone off his plan... He's CHOSEN me, although at this point I haven't yet CHOSEN him back. The jury's out.
Yes - I am with you Diane on this one - And I really hate the "I chose you" line (already discussed) which my WS holds she had in her mind all through her long A. It just does not ring true somehow does it.. After all it sounds like a big huge self-delusion on her part to me - sort of "please excuse me as I love you dearly and this is why I am sticking this knife in your back"... It somehow does not resonate with me that.. I would feel more reassured in my case if she had said something like "I found I did not love you but now I would like to start again".. I know this is perhaps different from your situation so I apologise if it is not helpful.
"I chose you" doesn't work for us because of a very simple reason... it's not contrite or humble.
If you put "I chose you" in the IMPLIED statements that it comes from it sounds like this: "Why are you so upset? I chose you over the other person (except, of course, when I chose the other person and myself over you during the affair)."
The "I chose you" statement seems to forget the pledge of no more choosing made at the wedding. It fails to account for the fact that all options were forever taken off the table on that day.
However, we should be honest and count our blessings too. There is some consolation in a spouse who chooses to work on reconciliation. I know of a few BS who never had the chance for reconciliation because their spouse left soon after D-day, and they have mentioned how heartbreaking it is to not even have that opportunity that others get. I think I might feel a deeper humiliation than I already felt if my wife had told me she wasn't interested in reconciliation. Of course, those feelings are tied up in the mis-notion that the decisions our spouse made are somehow related to our merit as a person, but they are a natural reaction for many people.
Sometimes we CAN take comfort knowing that our spouse didn’t reject us, yet that comfort does not obscure in even the slightest sense, the depth of the offense done by the wayward spouse. In other words, the offense of an affair is real and tangible, and is not mitigate by a choice for reconciliation by the offending spouse. They are separate acts, so the later doesn't somehow counteract the first.
The "I chose you" statements have no place in a true apology.
Thanks, Jerry,
I think if a WS says, "I'm here aren't I, that means I want to be with you", doesn't say anything about his motivation... why he wants to be with you. If he said it once then goes out and does something to completely prove to you that it was all palaver (such as dday #2 and #3) with nothing behind it, then those words have proven to be meaningless. So the question is, when or how can the BS even begin to believe anything that comes out of WS's mouth?
How can he show true remorse? How can he build trust?
I'm so envious of all those BS's that have FWS that spontaneously "see" their BS's pain and REACT to it in a loving way and sorrowful way for having been the cause.
My WS seems to be "sitting out the storm" waiting for me to come around... constantly noting HIS SACRIFICE in so doing. I'm the unreasonable one in his eyes. I'm not making an effort to make things better... (I didn't know that the burden is on my shoulders!)I am going to IC and MC. He quit IC and only goes to MC... doesn't read anything on the subject... just expects me to change my feelings towards him... because HE's "TRYING"... and he constantly tries to make me change by making me feel GUILTY.
Sorry for the rant.
Tom, I agree with what you said at the opening of your message. As for the fact that it is, even so, a good thing to have a spouse who wants to work on the marriage, never mind the wording used to state that fact, I agree if he really is ready to WORK and not just sitting back and waiting for things to change... just through the power of TIME.
I've been through MC before with H and he said all the right words and seemed to be so sincere... then with the passage of time he proved yet again that it was all palaver with out any basis in reality.. it's all an act. Now he is "working" by going to MC with me AGAIN the only thing is ... I'm having a hard time believing him... What's that story about the guy who called "wolf" one too many times?!
Diane
This message has been edited by DianeRow on Apr 12, 2007 12:26 PM
When someone says "I chose you" I just cringe. To me, it implies that I somehow won something by being "chosen". This was not a competition! Like others have said, there should have never been the option to chose me AGAIN in the first place cause when we said "I do" I already thought you chose me....I think "Did I miss something here Buddy"? However, when someone says "I chose to stay and work on the marriage" then to me, that implies more of a commitment, which is what I am personally looking for after d-day. Maybe when we said "I do" he wasnt as commited as he should have been or somehow lost sight of it along the way. So maybe that is a good place to start....with a solid commitment to the marriage. I feel that is a better base for reconciliation...just MHO. Instead of saying to himself "what is best for me" (I chose you) he is then saying "what is best for us" (I chose to work on the marriage).
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
Another problem that you may not have considered with the wording of statements such as: I want this marriage/ I want to work on the marriage... Is the motivation just to keep the partnership and especially what it entails such as children and family life OR is it saying I'll put in the effort to work on the marriage as a guarantee that I'll be able to keep the family life/children. (I'll put up with you and Us so I won't have to be alone and without the family).
Where is the committment to YOU. How strong is that desire? Where's the love Y'all?
You said it Diane. I still feel like I am something like convenient and familiar.. Not very motivating. I watched a film on tv here last night and there was a woman saying "I want to feel wanted" or something like that. Perhaps it was "needed".. I can't exacly recall. But it awoke in me a feeling that I feel more like the pet dog than someone who is essential to wife's happiness.. Well.. she does like the dog.. so perhaps I should settle for that.. (joke!).
And, you know, when I talk about trust these days it means me having trust in her love for me.. Not what is usually assumed ie that she won't do it again. I am more interested in the heart and her motivation behind her actions. I really want to believe she really loves me by my deffinition of love.
<<Another problem that you may not have considered with the wording of statements such as: I want this marriage/ I want to work on the marriage... Is the motivation just to keep the partnership and especially what it entails such as children and family life OR is it saying I'll put in the effort to work on the marriage as a guarantee that I'll be able to keep the family life/children. (I'll put up with you and Us so I won't have to be alone and without the family).>>
Diane, for me, and from what my IC has said to me, there can be no commitment to the marriage if there is not a commitment to your partner, even in the broad sense. So they go hand in hand. It is more about being a team as a marriage should be instead of the selfishness of an A, where the WS was only serving his selfish needs (it was all about HIM). Staying for the marriage does imply that there is a "we". Where as saying "I chose you", implies that "I am selfish and thought YOU were better for ME than the OW". It still implies it's all about the WS and what the WS wants, not about you and the marriage. One is a selfish need, the other is not. That's the difference as I understand it anyway.
I hope I made some sense. It's not always easy to put things into words so others understand what ya mean, lol.
<<Where is the committment to YOU. How strong is that desire? Where's the love Y'all?>>
The commitment to you is the same as the commitment to the marriage...cant have one without the other. And only time and his actions will prove how strong that desire is for him, and for you. And love, well, what's the point of it all without love? Personally, if I did not love my WS I would have no desire to reconcile. Sure, my feelings are not the same as they once were but I do still love him and I do want the marriage to work. It has to be mutual or I really dont see that it will work out.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
<<I really want to believe she really loves me by my deffinition of love.>>
Jerry,
Have you ever read the book "The Five Languages of Love"? We all want to be loved in OUR own way, but the thing is we all have our own ideas about how to show our love and exactly what love means to each of us. I show love in the way I would like love shown to me, unfortunately, my WH and my love languages are not the same. If he learns my love language and shows me love the way I want to be shown love, then he is fulfilling my need of feeling loved, and visa versa.
And JJ,
I would love to do lunch
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
This message has been edited by SoCalGal on Apr 12, 2007 7:00 PM
So - did he choose me or choose the path of least resistance? An A is a very cowardly act and I feel that as everything came crashing down, he chickened out and ran for the safety of home. It must have been overwhelming to face the hurt he caused his family, the financial impact of divorce, and the fear that the OW might not stick with him. I think those things had a huge impact on his "choosing" me.
His choice doesn't make me feel all that special.
Katy
Katy, you said "as everything came crashing down, he chickened out and ran for the safety of home". This is totally what my H did, added to which I think he was a bit sick of the affair and saw home as a refuge away from the stress of keeping two women on a string (me and OW). But the problem was, that as soon as he felt he was in the security of home, he felt safe to start up the A again (or at least keep the emotional side of it going). Like a little child being really brave in front of a big dog as long as he is hanging on to mum's skirt. And I enabled this because he pulled the "I chose you" line over and over. It did make me feel second best, runner up, consolation prize, default option. (OW even said to H "we always said the one good thing to come out of this would be to make your life with Liz happier", as though the A could be excused if our marriage became better. Grrrrrrr!) So I stepped back, let him do things his way, "respected" his right to be friends with OW, felt that she was his true love and that he has stayed with me for convenience, familiarity, social and professional reasons but not because I was the one he really wanted to be with.
In fact what I felt like was a whitegoods item, refrigerator or washing machine. Handy, convenient, always there, but not exciting and in fact you could do without it if you had to. Another way I phrased it is that I felt like wallpaper in his life: always there but largely unnoticed. It wasn't until D-day#2 that we both finally realised that it was about me chosing him, in spite of what he had done. That the important thing was my choice to stay with him and work on this relationship. Now he is so conscious that any day I could choose not to stay with him. (And he could choose to leave.) So him saying to me "I chose you" is a cop out, but me saying it to him is a statement of hope for the future.
Wow that is a very powerful post for me Liz - right where I am. And the feelings expressed above also by others about being a convenient safe option.. Yes.. It can happen to a man too.
may you be safe and well, contented and happy
and yes, CAL - I am going to look for the book "language of love"
