I don't know whether I should continue on with trying to catch H with a PI or just go ahead and confront him with what I know, which, beyond the fact that I know they call each other and I have heard a few messages and read a few texts, isn't much. None of the messages were exactly damning. I want the proof of a picture or something, but don't know if I will ever get it.

The PI I hired(or actually the guy who works for him and did surveillance the other night) feels that we are going about this all wrong and they need to start first by getting a picture of her, her vehicles, etc and then possibly tail her from work instead of following H from our house. I think either way it will be taking a chance something will happen. I wish there was a particular routine that they followed, but it seems they are having stolen moments at different times due to the fact that they are both married, have kids, and she lives about 25-30 miles away and they work different schedules. Maybe it is mostly a phone relationship but I feel that H at least would be looking for something more. I don't know if I should continue to have the PI's work on this or if I am just wasting money I will need to help support me and the kids. One way or the other, H is being dishonest about this relationship, so there is obviously something about it that is more than platonic. But will I ever have the evidence of that? I keep going round and round in my head about what I should do.
I have a question too--how did your H's or W's act when the A was going on. H tells me he loves me every day, talks about the future and "suddenly" is being nicer to the kids. I wonder if having me and her is like "having his cake and eating it too" for him.
I actually have had the thought "Should I confront him and then try to work it out?" But knowing H like I do, I don't really believe that he would give up the relationship with this girl. He might say he was sorry and wanted to work on it, but my gut feeling is that he would just get sneakier and continue to be in touch with her. H is that way about a lot of other things. He'll listen, tell you he won't do "such and such" again and then just continue to do what he wants. One of the things I had an issue with was his continued contact with his ex-wife. They had no children, so there was really no reason for them to be in touch. But he never told her not to call (I imagine he called her too) and my feelings about it didn't seem to matter.
Must go--H is home. Thanks for reading my ramblings!

K

K,

Having been in your situation, and living where I am now, my advice to you is DO NOT WAIT UNTIL YOU KNOW SEX HAS HAPPENED! I was the same way, I saw messages, phone calls etc..., but didn't have any evidence of anything actually happening, not until a year and a half later when there was then evidence and confirmation of three sexual relationships and one that did not involve intercourse. I can't tell you how bad it feels to know that if I had just gotten off my rear, called the numbers and asked the first woman what was going on, I probably would have stopped it before it went so far. Turns out, H was telling all these women we were separated, so they didn't even know. Lots of time, men will tell women they aren't actually separated yet but the marriage is dead and they sleep in different rooms, or that his wife is already seeing someone else. So the point is, you've got her number, contact her. Let her know that no matter what the situation, your "beef" is not with her. If she knows he is married, then that's something she has to live with, it's not your concern. Your husband's actions are your only concern, she's not hurting you or deceiving you, he is. Let her know, that you are just a despearte woman who needs peace in her life and you need to know the truth. If they have not had sex yet, great, believe it or not it's a lot easier to stomach. Strictly emotional relationships are difficult too, but the thoughts you will have to deal with of your husband having sex with another woman will cripple you.

So again I say, put a stop to whatever it is now. Maybe at this point he's just enjoying the attention, the high we all get when you meet someone new, and they haven't had the opportunity to be "alone" yet.

How to confront him? Get babysitter, leave house and go to private park, I would not suggest a public setting like a restaurant or mall. Bring copies of the emails, recordings of the messages, copies of the phone bills, etc... Give them to him, let him see and listen. Then let him know that you must have the truth, if he is even slightly interested in saving your marriage, now is the time to release everything. Do not accept manipulating excuses. Hopefully you will have already spoken to the OW, if you haven't this is your only chance to get the whole truth, because once he knows you are onto them, he will conspire to no end with her to keep the truth from you.

As far as how your H is acting towards you and your kids now. My husband, while out of town, called me 1 hr before picking up his OW from the airport
and told me how much he loved me and wanted to make sure I knew that it was just him and me. After speaking with OW, I found out they had sex three times that day. So, point is, men are capable of making us believe anything because we want to believe them. You have to learn to identify when you are being manipulated.

I'm sorry you are going through this, Ihope you find the truth.

Hi Nikki,
Thanks for your advice! The OW does know that H is married. Otherwise I'm sure she wouldn't be blocking her number when she calls him. And always calling him when H is at work, I'm in bed, etc. I'm not sure if calling her would work. I wouldn't doubt that she wouldn't even answer. But then again if I blocked my number and called her she might think it's him since he seems to block his number when calling her too.
It might be worth a try.
I have to pick up my daughter from my mom's house now. But keep in touch, I enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this. Take care.

K

You sound as if you are not sure if it is an EA that has turned PA or not. In my opinion it doesnt matter. An EA and a PA are both A's. My WH courted OW a year before it became a PA. So it was an EA long before that. I know my WH did not consider it wrong until he actually slept with her. I knew that "something" was wrong and every time I confronted my WH he denied it. Proof of the A came in the form of OW calling me to inform me of the A, two years after the PA had begun. She called because my Wh actually ended it with her and she wantd him back and was trying to break us up.

A few months after d-day 1, I supected WH of starting things back up. Like you, I had no real proof. He made me feel crazy! And the more I confronted the better he got at hiding it!!! UGH! After two more years of cat & mouse games I hired the PI. I needed the validation and proof I couldnt get any other way. I needed to make sure 100% that my gut was right before I kicked him to the curb and confronted him yet again, but this time with PROOF he could not talk his way out of and leave me doubting myself. That became d-day 2 for me.

I like the thought of calling OW and telling her your H is married and to back off. It could work. But chances are she will deny EVERYTHING. You really have nothing to lose by trying...except for teh fact they may get better at hiding it, like my WH. If it doesnt work you could take the PI's suggestion then. The PI is right though, since your H meets her only when it is convenient then it will be very hard to catch him. I dont know what else to tell you. I really believe eventually they either slip up or they confess when confronted, but sometimes you gotta hire a pro.

You asked how my WH acted when he was cheating, well, that's a bit complicated. His ill behavior of me and the kids actually started before the A. My H ahd some losses and became depressed and then hooked on pot, then he cheated. I just thought his behavior was depression and the drugs. I thought one day he would snap out of it! SO really, his beahvior was not that different. And yes, even in his depressed state and all throughout his 5 year A, he professed to love me Sorry, but I didnt feel very loved.

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

My H's OW was also married. I had no concrete proof of an A, just alot of phone calls, to one another listed on the cell phone bill. There were a few other little things but not much. I confronted H several times he acted like I was crazy, they were just friends. Finally I told my H that I was going to call OW's H to see if he thought it was OK that our spouses were talking so often. That's when my H told me he was having an A.

He didn't want her H to find out. So he told me as little as he could for two weeks, then I caught him e-mailing with her. He still wanted to have a "friendship".

I was really mad that he began to come clean to protect her. But what I have come to realize is he told me out of selfishness. If I told her H and he threw her out, my H would feel guilty, because he knew he would not leave me (or the kids).

So this might be an avenue you might pursue. Threaten both or one of them that you will go to her H with the proof you have. He might even have some suspicions of his own already and between the two of you, you could construct the picture of the affair. Or maybe H or OW will confess when you s/w them.

Good Luck
Lisa

True...you can threaten to tell the OW's H. Since my WH's OW was not married I did not have that option. Even if you don't have concrete proof you can tell him what you do know and what you suspect. Maybe it will help. I wish you luck in all of this.

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences.
The one PI I am working with told me that if they could ID her (we don't know what she even looks like) then they could confront her and ask for a confession in exchange for not telling her husband. That way they wouldn't even need a picture or anything of them together. That would be great--But is that legal? It almost sounds like blackmail ha ha. So I guess the question is how much more money I want to pay. Also there seems to be increasingly less contact between them--going by the info I'm getting from his phone. I wonder if this A has run it's course? Going by the messages and texts I've been able to get a hold of (H always deletes the ones he sends) it seems like he is the one trying to hook up all the time. There was even one text from her that took place when H would have been driving home from an out-of-state funeral recently & itlooked like (judging by her response) that he was trying to meet up with her then. Maybe she enjoyed the attention and having someone to talk to but really did not want a PA. It is all guessing on my part and I am rambling again.
Should I let the PI's do their thing for a little bit or just forget it and confront him with what I know? You guys have given me some good ideas to consider! I guess I am just wishy washy. I need to make a decision. Thanks you guys!

K

You said it K....you have to make that decision. You can always confront him whith what you do know and if he doesnt confess you have the PI option.

As far as what the PI told you about being legal or illegal, I have no clue! But it doesnt sound quite right to me. Is the PI licensed in your state? Check out your state laws regarding PI's. In my state they are licensed and have to work within state law guidlines, and I am pretty sure "blackmail" would not be allowed. The PI said he can give me the information I requested but that he does not confront suspects, but what I do with the information he provides me with is up to me. Since the Patriot Act has been in affect he is much more limited in our state than he was before. I strongly urge you to find out your state laws and if it is required make sure he is licensed. You have to protect yourself and make sure nothing is illegal if you continue to work with the PI.

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Hi CAL,
The main PI who owns the business is a retired investigator for the local sheriff's department as well as a retired judge. He is an older man. The guy he has doing the leg-work who told me about confronting the OW is younger and apparently a former police officer. I left a message for the older PI asking about what the other PI had said but havn't heard back from him yet. Maybe I misunderstood some part of what the guy was saying--I will find out.

Thanks for your input. I am still going round and round in my mind. I guess it's just knowing that whatever happens--they catch him at it or I just confront him--our lives are going to be thrown into chaos. I guess it already is--I'm just acting like it isn't on the outside. I want the easy way out and there isn't one.

K