Well, yesterday was another D-Day. He dropped off the OW at the airport on Sat. and wanted to see me and got o a movie on Sun. Cool! I got to do laundry without paying for it and use a properly lit bathroom to shave my legs (both not available with my rented room.)
He picked me up (the theatre was near my place, so he could easily drop me off later) and we talked for the 45 min. drive to his place. First 2 things he mentions - he has an invitation for Christmas (actually 2 - one from the OW in Europe and one from his buddy hear who has also been divorced) and he wants a motorbike because he wants one.
Then, we get talking about the state of things with us. For once, I am not in tears (maybe the fact that we were ina car, looking forward isntead of at each other, helped). He says he likes renting the roomf rom him because I will be more comfortable and we can see if we can even be friends. I point blank asked him about the OW and he says that she has been offered a job here in town for January. He also says his course should be over by Christmas but, because it is so intense, he has been told to deal with any personal issues before hand. I say that I have heard things about the possibility for teaching back home but rent is super high ( I would have to work 15 days to paty rent and car before I could even afford food!) and he said that, if somehting comes up, I should take it. I point blank ask him if he has offered OW a palce to stay if she takes the job. He says yes (What - I had to ask to get this info?) butthat a lot can change in 7 months - like she may not wait for him (b.s. she waited 6 months for him last time, according to her friends).
So, I am essentially fubarred. I told him, early on in the conversation, before the little tidbit about OW coming back, that my one fear is that I try to work it out with him, he goes on course, I don't hear from him for 4 months (possible, due to the job) and he comes back at Christmas and tells me to get lost. And he doesn't bother to tell me that this is a real possibility until I point blank ask if it is? Yeah, he is a self-centered bastard.
So, I am still moving back in if only because it will be easier to move with all my stuff at one address. I am swallowign all my pride and ego to call my paretns tonight to tell them the state of affairs and pray that they will give me a palce to stay until I get on my feet and not utter the phrase "boomerang kid" or tell me "you have to live with your desicions" and say they won't bail me out. If either happens, I have decided to cut all contact with my family (and I will tell my grandmother that it is her daughter's fault that she will never see me again) and move to the other side of the country where I am also professionally qualified and no one knows who I am (anonymity looking quite good right now).
I have been reading your story since you first came to HH. I admit that I would like nothing more than to fly there and bonk your H over the head with my wand. I can certainly understand that you feel caught between a rock and a hard place given your circumstances. Are you familar with the 180? If you are not, I do believe becoming familiar with those rules and instituting the 180 might help you tremendously. Your H is living in the Great State of Denial. Even if your marriage ends in divorce, he will still have his same old delusions that will affect every relationship he ever has until he figures out what is wrong inside himself that he could give himself permission to cheat.
I don't know your parents, so I certainly can not comment on how they might react. Is it possible that if they can't help you, your grandmother can? Sometimes skipping a generation can help. We seldom know what problems our older relatives have weathered in their lives because they often don't share those pains with us in an effort to protect us.
I know you didn't ask for a commentary, but my fairy dust got riled up from your post; however, I am sending you a gazillion fairy hugs and hope you feel empowered and calmer.
Fairyfriend - my grandmother would help if she could (she offered back in Jan. when I told her things were bad but not about the A.) Unfortunately for me, but not her, she moved into a retirement home last week. She is the happiest I have known her to be in a long time. But, there is no place for me to live with her anymore.
Dear Chinook - - ((((hugs)))) I know your whole situation has been so very hard. I don't know if your H just can't stand the notion of being alone, and that's part of why he's renting the room to you (that just galls me!!!!!!) while horrible OW (my head is spinning with the things I'd really like to call her) trots off and seemingly has an open invitation to come and go into your H's life.
How much have you and H talked about what his feelings are for you throughout all of this? You deserve SO MUCH BETTER than what he is offering and giving to you. I wish there was a way to swoop in pick you up and get you someplace else. I can very much relate to the wanting to move across country...severing all ties...running from the despair, humiliation, anger. But (a) it was never a realistic notion for me and (b) though one can run from a situation, we can't run from the feelings it generated.
So, I'm sending you hugs from my corner. I'm hoping your parents can be there for you and give you the support and love you need at this time. (((((Chinook))))) Across the miles, you're in my thoughts. BlueIris
BlueIris - H and I have talked some about his feelings for me and this is what I have learned - 1) he wants to protect from all harm except that comes from him, 2)he knows he is making a mistake and that, years from now, he will regret this and wish he had stayed with me, 3)he still wants to be friends with me but understands that for me it is marriage or nothing 4)he has kept me as his next of kin for notification purposes and life insurance and promises to do so for the rest of his life (a HUGE deal in the military) and even updated the paperwork last week so no one could question whether or not he meant to change it after we seperated, 5)he loves her and is happiest when around her, 6)we can't seem to go 6 hours together without haveing the same discussion about why things are wrong in our marriage and when I try to leave (to get some air or to go home), he stops me, wraps his arms around me and comforts me. Is there no wonder why I am so confused about what I should do? He is sending VERY mixed messages.
As for running away, in some ways I have no choice. I have no one here and no career. I can pick up my career more easily in 2 provinces, one with all my family and one with an Aunt and Uncle of H's who have been kind to me and could possibly give me a couch for a week or two if needed. I don't even have that here. I'm hoping my parents surprise me when I call.
If I were a betting fairy, I would say that your H is doing the classic fence sitting that many FW who get caught in the middle of an A do. Right now he has the best of both worlds--you AND OW. Have you read Peggy's story at dearpeggy.com? If not, I strongly urge you to do so. In fact, she quotes her H in this week's question about how he thought he had the best of both worlds, an adoring wife AND an OW. In addition, below is a copy of the 180 which I mentioned earlier. Perhaps one or both of these sources might be of help to you. I am sorry you are hurting so much.
Gentle fairy hugs,
fairyfriend
The 180
Several years ago, Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, introduced a concept to the world of infidelity that is designed to help you and your partner move forward in the healing of your relationship. It is my suggestion that any new betrayed partner implement these behaviors immediately. They aren’t designed to make you look good or your partner bad. They are, however, a means of protection for the betrayed. They also empower the betrayed to face their new world with dignity and bravery. They appear stronger to the wayward partner and at this point in time, that is exactly what you want to portray.
This list was originally titled, “The 180” and it won’t take you long to figure out why. What you are actually doing is a complete 180 degree rotation in your actions and attitude. You no longer are a weeping sack of sorrow. Suddenly, you appear strong, happy, independent, and quite capable of making it on your own.
The 180
1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.
I hope this message finds you feeling better. Even if it is just a bit better.
My kids are doing there "as ususal" goofing around at the dinner table. So, I picked up my dinner and left my husband (or whatever he is), to deal with them. HE IS STRESSED LISTENIGN TO THEM............PITY!
You know, I don't what has happened to you. I don't know your story. Where can I read it?
Having read the above (what you wrote), the thoughts that came to mind are..........."what a f----- jerk your husband is" (NOT TO SAY THAT MINE IS NOT). You and I love jerks! We both deserve better, but we do love them (these big jerks).
Does this OW know you are staying with him? Going to movies with him? How does that make her feel? This is all so insane. I am really angry at your husband. He needs a serious wake up call (again, as does my husband).
I have to confess however that I do not even understand everything I read here at this posting of yours. You are living eslewhere considering moving in with H? You have moved in with H? You might move back home near your parents if they say come home? Where is home? What is your occupation? How young are you? You haven't children is my understanding? How long married? Together?
I totally can relate to your pain. The wanting someone to want you completely and only you. The feeling like almost everyhting is in the hands of the OW.
I know you know you deserve better. That doesn't say much when all you want is the love, respect,,, of your husband. I know this all to well. You married him after all.
Please please please know I am thinking of you. I know it doesn't take away your pain, your feelings of uncertainty,,, but I am thinking of you. A big warm long hug from a friend.
Fairyfriend - I had started doing the 180 a few months ago but I slipped back into old habits when I mistakenly thought things were getting better. I have started them again. I can proudly say that he said I could go watch the hockey game (go Sens!) at his place (I have no TV access) "if I was bored." I found myself not that bored and have stayed home instead. This is hard because I really want to see the game (no TV or reliable internet to have it streamed), but I can always get the highlights tomorrow. I know it is going to be more difficult when I move back, though, because our place is quite isolated. But, I miss my cat and dog a lot and I really want to cook again.
LonelyMomWife - I don't have my story posted anywhere, so here it is in brief. I met H 3 1/2 years ago while he was on infantry training in Alberta. After just 3 months (half of which he was in Manitoba), he proposed during New Year’s Eve in New Orleans. 3 months later, a month before the wedding, we eloped so he could delay his posting to Nova Scotia long enough to make the small church wedding we had planned. He immediately moved to Nova Scotia, I followed 3 months later. He got posted to Ottawa the following year. I followed 2 months later, though he has since told me he wished I had stayed in Nova Scotia (where I had gained teacher certification but had no family and few friends. It never crossed my mind) we bought in Quebec in an area which we soon learned is anti-English and has no doctors, which means I had to quite my anti-depressants cold turkey (not recommended and now I know why). We have lived here 2 years. Last year he went for IC, I thought for anger issues with his job (they treated him worse than when he was infantry) but, he later told me, because he hated our marriage (never bothered to include me in this or take up the padre's offer of MC for the 2 of us). I knew we had problems but thought it was just a rough path that every couple has.
Well, he goes overseas to the Netherlands for a few weeks for work. Meets a girl and claims they were only friends (I somehow believe him. He is big on telling me the truth, regardless of how much it hurts me). He chats with her online for 6 months, and I knew about it. What I didn't know was that he cancelled our New Year's Eve plans so he could pick her up at the airport in Toronto the next day (his dad died New Year's Day when he was little, so it has always been an awkward holiday). He told me that he was visiting friends in the area. I knew he needed space so I gave it. He did this for 3 weekends and then got angry at me being so nice to him (I kid you not) and basically told me to stop it. I point blank asked what her name was and he admitted to the affair at that point (Yeah, 2007 has been fun!)
Well, he never stopped seeing her on weekends, only now I knew about it. IN Feb., I moved out to live with his aunt and uncle and, that day, his grandfather in Newfoundland had a deadly stroke. Thing is, his grandfather adored me and, when I called the hospital, he thought I was going up there with H. H& I agreed not to make things worse for his family and faked it for a week. On our return, when we transferred in Toronto, he left the airport to see OW. (Ok, as I see this, I can’t figure out why I am with the bastard).
By this point, my room had disappeared (the aunt was now dealing with a dying father 3 provinces away), so I moved back in and first planned to move back to Alberta cu I couldn't afford rent on P/T work. Gave notice to my boss who offered me F/T. I took it and started looking for a room to rent. Found one and moved out April 1st (not cheap since all my single person furniture had since been thrown out due to space. I had to buy a bed, for pete's sake). We spent Easter together because we both had nobody else (by this point his family and he are no longer speaking because of what he ahs done to me). He admits that he thought he would be happy to have me leave and realizes he isn't and apologies for the first time. Still doesn’t change the fact that OW is moving in 2 days later.
While OW is there, her sister and a friend invite themselves to stay at H’s place (this is life takes revenge!) Turns out that one of them is a cheap slob who chip in for food or gas and the other destroys everything she touches (but of course the OW is blameless, or so H claims). While there, my dog got sick from burrs stuck in his fur, my cat got sick from eating cigarettes left out, my couch (from before the marriage) is ripped, my vacuum cleaner is used to suck cords, my crystal (1st anniversary gift) is chipped and H has no money for kitty litter, so cat is pissing all over. H gives me highlights via emails at work and weekly Dutch classes (my pathetic attempt to spend time with him). He claims he never told OW that I take the classes with him or go for coffee after.
I also would get text messages at 3 a.m. or calls where I can tell he is outside. He says he misses me but… he also says he spent many sleepless nights trying to figure out what he wants, this from a man who could sleep anywhere.
Last week he dropped OW at the airport and then met me for coffee on his way home. He was exhausted and on edge, but said he really wanted to see me. That brings up to the top of this topic and absolutely confused. I’ve thought of why I want to stay with him. Part of it is because I don’t want to be alone, I will admit that. I did that for 30 years and hate it. But, it is not enough to put up with what I have. After all, I’m alone now, only I don’t get to see my new nephew or my seriously ill grandmother (back in Alberta). I love him, plain and simple, and can’t imagine life without him. I was proud when he told me he got his job change to something that suits him to a T even though it means he will be away lots and in dangerous places. I love him enough that I would do anything to make him happy. And that part that scares me the most is that I think I may need to leave him to make him happy. He says he is the happiest he has ever been when he is with OW. Do I have the right to keep him from that?
He once jokingly said I was a like a little puppy you want keep everyone from kicking, that I am too good. Then, when we fight, that the world will not let him be happy and that is why he is with me. He wants to be with her and, if they both can wait until Jan, he will have his dream job and dream woman. (Turns out he enjoys kicking puppies) But what about my dream for happiness with him? Why do I have to be discarded for him to be happy? What do I have to do to deserve happiness? Because, I don’t think I can be happy without him. I gave up everything – family, friends, career – willingly to follow him. I knew that was the price. But I gambled and lost. I guess I just don’t deserve it
Chinook
edited to remove your e-mail address and name
This message has been edited by dancin-gal on Jun 5, 2007 8:36 AM
Can you say "fallacious thinking?" Oh my dear woman, you are doing the classic BS thinking: "It's all MY fault that my poor, unhappy WS is so miserable. If I just nobly stepped out of the picture and let him be with OW, he would be happy. I want him to be happy because I love him and would do anything for him, so he can be happy." Add the appropriate sniffing here.
Sweetie, your H is paddling along on his barge on the big river of Denial. Repeat after me: No one can MAKE another person happy. Your H could be married to the most beautiful, intelligent, compassionate, rich, etc., etc., etc., woman that ever lived, and he would still cheat if he decided he wasn't happy and that another woman would MAKE him happy. Life doesn't work that way. You say he isn't happy, but you certainly are NOT happy now either. What are you going to do to change your way of thinking, so that you make the changes in your life that will make YOU happy?
From what you wrote, it certainly sounds like your H is very conflicted between OW and you. That is why I suggested that the 180 might work quite well for you. See, if you act like a courteous acquaintance and NOTHING MORE to him, there is an excellent possibility that he will wake up and smell the coffee. Even if he doesn't, separating yourself from him emotionally when you are so very vunerable could only be a positive step for you.
I am so sorry you are hurting so much. I very much understand how it feels to be conflicted, hurt, desperate, wanting my marriage to succeed and shattered at the thought that no matter what I do, it won't be good enough. But you know what? I've decided that I'm through with those feelings. Either my H loves me and chooses to work on our marriage (which is what he has done BTW), or I would move on, so that I would be happy and not compromising my happiness for someone who is confused and blame-shifting.
My Goodness Chinook, I don't know what to say. All of this is so horrilbe. Have you made any close friends in Quebec? Even still, likely they wouldn't understand your situation if they haven't lived it. I FIND THIS. I also feel so alone (even though I have kids and a husband who live here with me). It is an awful awful awful feeling. To feel so alone. I often thank God for this sight and people here.
You know what, I don't know what to say. It won't take away your pain. It won't change your situation. I can pray for you however. I will do that tonight. Since my husband has ruined my life (I rarely smile/laugh), I pray to God like crazy. Especiallly in my darkest, most painful moments. I have cried out to him in my bathroom with my door shut.
I do know what it is like to love someone so much and have them treat you like crap and still wish to please them and spend the rest of your lives with them. I think it has something to do with the "I DO'S" we took. The dreams being created. We held our marriage in high high regard, despite it's imperfections. I can tell you this and I hope you don't mind my sayign so..................WE BOTH DESERVE TO BE LOVED, WE ARE GOOD PEOPLE. Apart from that, I feel I know nothing. I feel like a really stupid weak person.
I know why your husband told you to stop being nice to him, cause he felt guilty about how awful he was treating you. He is guilty, guilty as sin. Do you think he has a conscience? I question at this point if he has a good bone in his body.
Your husband makes me furious. He is making me furious with my husband.
I think I would save all emails he sends you about the OW. Later, you may want to share them with her. This may not be considered acceptable to her. You dont' know what b.s. he may be feeding her. If he would like to you, why woudln't he lie to her.
Does your husband have any drinking/drug problems? Just curious? Was he close to his immed. family?
He sounds really messed up. He sounds like he needs some individual help. DO YOU NOT AGREE?
I am so thinking of you. Wishing you peace in your heart, laughter in your days.
LonelyMomWife - one thing I am lucky about is has no drinking or drug problems. This is him and not a chemical affect. A s for being close to his family, far from it. His dad died when he was 6 and his step father came into the picture 6 months later (raising a lot of eyebrows in the entire family). His half-sister came along a couple years later and he has said that he felt like a leftover from his mother's first family. He left home at 17 when they got posted to Alberta and he went to college in Ontario. His contact with them was strained until I came into the picture (I seemed to soften him or them, I'm not sure which).
I made the foolish mistake of ratting him out to his mother on D-Day. She told me to take him for all he is worth and has spoken to him only when we visited her dying father. After the funeral, which we couldn't attend, she sent the memorial cards to him with no letter and return address (we suspect it was her, that is) and heard nothing since then. He won't call them and has taken them of his next-of-kin emergency contact list. They don't even know he is going into a more dangerous career. As he put it, his step-dad is military and knows how to find him if needed.
Chinook
This message has been edited by chinookwind on Jun 5, 2007 10:06 AM
Your husbands current behaviour, may have ALOT to do with his whole family history. I think my husbands done. His behaviour, what he thinks, how he feels in large part is probably due to his past and upbringing,,,.
You know what..........DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP OVER TALKIGN WITH HIS MOM the day of discovery. You were likely out of your mind that day and many days that followed. Surely you/he must realize that. You did somethign very normal. You spoke with someone who was perhaps closest to him (in their own strange way), his MOTHER WHO GAVE HIM BIRTH. You perahps thought she could help straighten him out. You know, I did the same thing. I told spouses sister the day of discovery. I was beside myself. I thought she could get answers from him. Talk some sense into him. His sister was one of a very very few close friends of mine. GodMother to my two boys. Well, loyalities lie tight. She took his side. HOW DO YOU TAKE SIDES HERE?! She said, I don't condone the affair, but if he is not happpy,,,,. So what I ask........"he can leave me to deal with all the children problems?" Atleast you have the support of his family. I have lost a husband and close close friend. She is not very close to her GODSONS ANYMORE. The heartache I have had to deal with. Two betrayers!
What you have to realize is your husband did all this to himself. NOT YOU. You didn't have the affair. She is shifting blame to you. He has hurt so many people. Has he realized this?!
DO NOT BE TOO HARD ON YOURSELF. You are the victim. Not he!
