Someone told me that because the initial shock is over, you think more clearly and what happened really sinks in things may get worse before it gets better and I think I am experiencing that right now. I am not necessary depressed or gloomy all day, I have “normal” moments but there is always a couple of times or at least one time a day that it hits me hard and when I say hits me hard I mean it. Two nights ago out of no where the details of the A hit me. I went upstairs and cried on the bed. I cried so hard that I couldn’t breathe and felt like I sick. I felt so much pain. You know, the type where is physically hurts. I told my W that it feels like I am out of the “fog”, not in shock anymore and everything seems clearer but all too real. I basically told her that I forgave her on D-Day. Forgiving and reconciliation was always a given from the start and it was just me dealing with the emotions and the hurt. I always gave her the message that I wanted to stay, I just had to get through this tough time. Lately however, it feels like I doubt everything. Doubting my ability to get over this and doubting whether I could stay with a person that did this. I am reading this book on forgiveness and it describes cheap forgiveness. This is were you forgive without or before taking in the affect of what happened in fear or loosing or hurting the relationship. I think I did this. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that I don’t love her anymore because I do. I love her more than anything and I can’t even think of my future without her in it but then I think of what exactly she did and I wonder to myself how I could stay with her. I wrote her an e-mail last night describing “her A” in detail but switching the roles and I asked her if she thought given that information she would stay. She replied that while reading it her heart sank and she does not even know how I make it from day to day. She said that there is nothing she can say but at least she was really empathetic and said that because she can’t change the past she can just promise me a better
future.
I good friend of mine here from HH that went through an A a while back said that he struggled with the question about whether he should work on his marriage with his W or just start fresh. He said “Seems like I’d be better off with a new relationship with a total stranger I didn’t know than a relationship with someone who has proven they can do the worst imaginable without a single thought” and “I do recognize that this marriage could be stronger down the road than it was before the A, but I also cant help but think about why should I risk the next few years on someone who has proven they can and will hurt me”
I have the exact thought process now. Should I stay? (hypothetical question, I know I have to answer that myself). My W shows remorse and vows to never do it again and said that she has changed. Is her remorse and regret reason enough to keep fighting or does the A just outweigh it?
The feeling you are experiencing are " normal" what ever normal is...I think we all have feeling of what if at different points in our recovery.
One thing I would recommend is recommend your wife read all she can about infidelity attend MC if possible.. fixing the problem is the key to work on...my H cheated D-1 he promised he would never cheat again...that lasted about a year...because we never found out what was happening in his mind...insecurity self esteem. D-day 2 we worked on the problems.....our marriage problem was communication...we didn't listen to each other...so together we work on communication..overall we are so much better.
Recovery is about positive actions on the part of the WS...healing starts with the BS who starts healing self ...then the marriage will begin to heal with the work of both partners.
Time is the cure..if your wife is showing you positive actions, look at your relationship today and what it was on D-day...what is different today? that is your benchmark...You are still on the roller-coaster of all the emotions...it does get better...
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
I was fine all day, then driving home it just struck me, hard. That's all I can really say. I'm just trying not to spiral. Time. Time. Just give it time. Think positive.
You're not alone. I guess I will stick with not making decisions when I feel this emotional. I have to stick to my guns. Stick with my man. Hope for the best.
I think you're right not to knee-jerk. I so understand what you're going through and hope it gets easier for you. For maybe 6 months after D-Day the A and details about it occupied most of my thoughts. Since IC and MC I can get on with life and the times at the bottom of the pit aren't as often and don't last as long.
For me, there's a dawning realization coming that says I just don't love her anymore; that this was a step too far for me and no amount of promises and improvements on her part will ever make it right. We're all different. I think if the M is otherwise OK and a mistake is made then it is probably easier to accept.
Best wishes, take your time and look after yourself. Look forward to better and happier times. Sam.
Dear Hartbroken - Your agony sounds so familiar to me. This week has been very hard. The sadness has been so much like a very wide ocean that I've been treading. And I'm just so tired. It has hurt to just breathe today. And, like you, it isn't that there is anything new happening. Its just the concept of acceptance of what happened. Acceptance. I just can't come to grips with all my H did.
It sounds as if you and your wife do talk a lot. That is wonderful. I would suggest that you tell her how you're feeling about "forgiveness" - - and letting her read the portion of the book that can explain those emotions to her. Though I suppose it would feel odd to say that you’re now in a place where you need to “retract” what you said during a traumatized state, it would be perfectly honest to tell her that you’re struggling with really feeling forgiving. Your email to her in many ways was a means to show her how difficult your road is on a daily basis. My guess is that it wouldn’t be hard for her to understand your struggle to forgive...though it may be disappointing for her. You can still tell her you’re working towards that goal of forgiveness. It only means you really want to truly feel it, and right now you’re struggling.
Are you two in counseling? MC/IC/both? I have found some relief in at least digging way down deep into the whys of what happened. Pat’s posting is spot on: being able to reconcile and really get better has so much to do with the WS really understanding what led them to the choice of an A, and then grappling with whatever that deep issue is. We BS’s also need to see ourselves clearly and having a really good IC to help us work a personal recovery of an A’s trauma is a true life preserver. But both parties have to truly “get” what happened and why in order to have a chance at surviving this and not winding up in the same predicament again.
Like you, I love my WS. That never was a question. But I listen to my H now when he tells me he loves me. I hear a depth of reality and appreciation for what he almost threw away that is now alive and sparkling in those three words. Its very difficult to respond in kind. I can absolutely say the words “I love you” and mean them. But there should be joy and hope in loving someone, and my love, though still as deep, is instead laced with fear and sadness. Looking at a future together, I want to feel joy in loving him. And as strange as it seems, if what we’re striving for is a healed marriage, he deserves to eventually have that joyful, hopeful love from me.
So, I’m banking on time. I’m hoping that acceptance will come with time, counseling, reading, thinking, working...whatever it takes. Would it be easier on some level to just move on and at least end up with someone that doesn’t have the track record of hurting me? I don’t know if that would be easier, or just different. Like Chinook, I’ve imagined just packing up and running across the country to start fresh, like clean notebook paper in the beginning of a school year. But the trauma and hurt will still be there, and would need to be coped with. My H emailed me today and talked about all the hard, deep issues we’re battling with. He said, “I'd rather go through that fight with you at my side than anyone else in the world.” To my core, I felt/feel the same way.
Hartbroken, hang in there. I hope today is a softer, kinder day that is most remarkable for its normalcy. BlueIris
Oh BlueIris, you said so many things that are dead on. I want to thank your post and tell you that I too am sorry to hear that you are hurting. We all are…what and awful thing. Sometimes I feel bad because it seems like the people that post have something going on. They discovered something new, something went wrong etc. With me nothing new is happening, my W is very remorseful and is doing her part but it’s the acceptance things that get s me. I am really struggling with this and I know people like Ami says is will get better and I have to trust them but at the moment it feels like it’s something that I am not going to get over. I feel like I am posting the same feelings and issues over and over but that obviously reflect my struggle to get over this. I am also banking on time to make this go away. I hope in my heart that you and your husband find the joy and happiness that you described and that you deserve. I hope that I will also be able to achieve this. Thanks again.
A lot of what you are feeling I feel the same.. I have NO words of wisdom and I"m sorry for that.. and if i did they wouldn't make since..lol.. doesn't help that my kids are through stuff at me head as I"m trying to type to you.. so on that note. I wish you all the best in healing.and soon things will shed a differnet light...
hartbroken44, this was written just days before my DD, and so I missed it at the time. I think I'm just starting to get into that phase (although that may be too soon - on the other hand I know I usually recover from shocks quicker than most, but this shock was a biggie!) because I recognise everything you are saying.
Don't have anything to say other than reading it was a comfort. I'm finding mornings really bad right now.
How have things gone since?
P.S. Have just taken a an emotional dive trying to work out/imagine what was happening on the 6th - she ended the affair on the night of the 8th. And i can't even remember if she was out on the 6th :'(
Im so sorry you are hurting so badly. Im sick just like that 2-3 times a week. It never got any better for me.
I made the decision that I could not continue to go on like that anymore, so I took my heart out of it and I listened to my brain. When I listed all the facts and everything that I have been through. I decided what was best for me and my health was to go.
This decision has been the hardest of my life and it hurts me more than anything I have ever been through.
Since I made it last week, he has been begging and crying and promising the world to make it up to me. Told me he hadnt seen or talked to her since June 2, and never will and I never have to worry about her or another woman again.
I got weak from all my tears and crying and hearing him beg. I just about decided to try again just to ease my pain.
Yesterday I went out to the mail box to get the mail I forgot to get on Tues. In it were the cell records. HE HAS BEEN TALKING TO HER EVERY DAY.
He lied to me over and over and I would have bet MY LIFE every word was the truth.
The same now, surely there is no way this man would lie to me now after all we have been through and all our pain and surely his tears and crying on his knees were true right?
Wrong, at least for me it was. Its one thing to have an affair, its something else to deal with a liar especially a really good one.
Go with what you know, use your brain not just your heart you have to protect yourself.
If she's no a liar then you're dealing with a whole different animal than what I had to deal with. I think that makes all the difference.
If she's not a liar, you have a chance. Otherwise, its all smoke and mirrors.
Not trying to hit you with a 2 x 4 or squash your hope. Just trying to give you the benefit of what I have been through.
I truely wish you the best, and I pray your pain eases.
One more thing, I really do believe this man loves me. Thats what makes this so much worse. Even though I believe he loves me, this is who he is. I dont believe he can help it.
In a strange sort of way I feel sorry for him, but this is who he is and what he does. I am so deeply in love with him that if I had to go through finding out he slept with her or some ow again it truely would kill me.
I have known this man for 5 years. We have been together for 3. I just now am realizing this is a core part of his personality that has been well hidden, but it eventually showed itself.
Right now its killing me, but Im realizing that some day in the near future I will be very grateful I have been given the gift of finding out now.
Why do people lie? Why do people have affairs? I don't think its possible really to have an affair without some kind of lieing, you would have to at somepoint lie in order for it not to be discovered. So if the affair causes the lieing, then without the affair the lieing should also stop?
In my case the lieing was absolutely MASSIVE. Totally gobsmacking lieing. As in they carried on as a couple in front of my face and the lies encouraged me to accept it as "just friends". The were holding hands, cuddling, everything short of kissing. But on the other hand she told me he had said he loved her. But she kept reassuring me nothing was going on. There were massive deceptions where I was in tears at their behaviour together and she sincerely apologised and agreed that she was paying him too much attention and me too little, being too flirty. Then she would go online and tell him that she had to cool it a little in front of me to keep me sweet, but that made her sad because she wanted to give all her attention to him.
BUT
As far as I am aware (which sounds pretty weak) I don't have any reason to believe she is generally a liar. Throughout all the rest of our relationship it isn't a trait I've noticed. Some people seem to just lie to make a situation easier, but she doesn't seem to. The only one that springs to mind was when we were at a posh work dinner and she said she'd never tried prawns but thought she wouldn't like them. The senior people encouraged her to try them and so she did and ate them (prawn cocktail). She did such a convincing act that they were ok that I was totally fooled, until we got up to dance and she said she hated them.
So on the one hand I know she is a REALLY convincing liar, but on the other I don't think she does it much. She also has strong guilt feelings after events, which I'm sure is the reason she told me. Nothing had happened that forced her to, she could easily have kept the lie going - I wasn't on her case. If anything after she spun my the lies and had started to give me some attention I had backed off.
Also I know I can lie very convincingly, but I would never have an A.
It is so very hard to trust her. No decisions are going to be made this month though.
(((((OsFan66))))) I am so, so sorry to hear your latest news. My own heart plunged when you shared really how constant his lying has been. How can they plunge the knife deeper with more lies? What does the word "love" mean to these people?
One thing I'm hoping you can find strength and comfort in is that you have a terrific mind and gut. You have proven how deeply you can trust yourself, because you are very astute and aware. And, prior to all this coming out, I'm proud of you for your ability to judge the situation and to see what's best for you. As difficult as the days ahead may be, I'm hoping that you find a self-empowerment that can fuel each step forward towards a healthier and happier life for you.
I have no doubt you will find love again. You will bring to that new relationship so much wisdom. But I would imagine for now, your heart is full of a variety of emotions.
Take the time to be very good to yourself. I would highly recommend a therapist to talk through what's happened. Please come back here and vent, share whatever is laying upon your heart. Your HH friends understand, support and care for you very much. My wishes remain for you for brighter days and truer love, BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
I am so sorry you had this new revelation about your fiance. I know you have been hurting so much and hoping for some glimmer of hope, but his latest lies have smashed that possibility.
Why do people lie? For a whole lot of reasons, but IMO many WS lie because they learned at a very young age that lying kept them from getting in trouble with authority. The more they lied, the more likely they thought they wouldn't get punished, and so over time, telling lies became second nature to them.
My H grew up in a home with a passive mother and a father who blew up over trivial matters, screamed, yelled, belittled, and meted out physical punishment. My H was a very introverted, shy, insecure middle child. He quickly learned to lie to avoid his father's wrath.
We all need to learn coping skills, but while some of us learn HEALTHY coping skills, others learn UNHEALTHY coping skills. Lying obviously falls into the unhealthy category. I honestly don't believe that many people who lie on a habitual basis realize how destructive their pattern of lying is.
Today my H understands WHY he lied (both as a child and as an adult). He is not proud of his lies, but he understands why he lied. He is working very hard not to lie. Part of his lying was to avoid confrontations of any kind, so now he has learned just to tell people no. He has released himself of a great deal of stress by simply telling the truth and learning to face confrontation, instead of lying to avoid it.
I can't help wondering if his bad coping skill of lying is one shared by a number of WS.
The funny thing is this site has been what has made me stronger and be able to see the truth through the fog of my feelings for him.
Everyone here is wonderful and Im sure Ill be around crying and venting to get myself through this.
We have a business together, so as we cut our ties, I become unemployed with no prospects, which also makes this a very tricky situation since I have 2 children from a previous marriage, we married too young and didn't realize what true love was (my ex remarried 9 days after we divorced, can I pick them or what?), so the additional cost of councelling is out of the question at this point and I have no family,(all deceased) and the 1 friend I had has abandoned me when she found out he had ONS and OW was pregnant and I didn't leave.
Ahh, the plot thickens, I am absolutely MISERABLE, BUT, believe it or not, I dont know how or why but deep down inside me there is a flicker of a spark that tells me somehow it will all be ok.
Thank you GOD for that flicker, thats the only reason I got out of bed today.
I think you're right, alot of them probably do the same thing. The question I had to face was the fact that it was literally killing me. I am sick several days a week, like Hart described, and constantly having stress migraines that are progressively getting worse to the point I cant function.
I have contemplated suicide and actually made a halfa.. attempt 6 months ago, and I shook myself and realized that his problems and his messes cannot be allowed to destroy me.
My love for him is so strong I would die for this man, but I will not allow him to kill me. If I stay in this that is exactly what I am allowing him to do to me indirectly.
At this point, after a conversation with him last night, he has realized that there is no chance ever. He is now threatening and I am actually very frightened. He has hit me once a long time ago when we found out about OC. He does have an anger problem and he once beat a man so badly the guy ended up in shock trauma for a few weeks because the guy was drunk and repeatedly was flirting with his previous girlfriend.
I fear my emotional hurt more than physical though, so dont worry about me, Im just venting.
I too suffer from migraines, so I understand what you have been dealing with.
I must tell you that when I read your most recent post, I was gripped by very real fear for you. My best advice is for you to RUN, not walk, away from this man. His anger issues and history of violence make me fear for you. Please get away from him--for you and your children's sake!
I have no place to go, and no money. He and I need to work out some sort of arrangements for this business to disolve gracefully because if we dont, I will be homeless with 2 kids, so this has to be a delecate dance for me.
Its probably not smart to anger him at this point, just let him cool off. I have thought about a restrainnig order and that is always a possiblity if it becomes necessary, and of course there is always 911.
This man is NOT going to force me out of my home. HE destroyed us and Im taking back me and what is fair and rightly mine nothing more.
Thank you for your concern and yes I am thinking along those lines. In the event that the situation deteriorates I will run as you said somehow.
The good news is my kids are on vacation with their dad and stepmom until Sunday night. Hopefully by then this situation will be resolved.
I am glad that your kids are not with you right now because that means you don't have to worry about them, too.
Did you know about his temper when you became involved with him? Does he know that you are breaking off your relationship entirely with him?
I can tell from your posts that you are intelligent and determined. Good for you. Draw strength from yourself and your resolve. I can see why you are determined to make darn sure you get back your share of the financial involvement.
I really needed to hear that line about me being right, my biggest flaw is second guessing myself. To answer your question, I did know that he was a hot head but I didn't know until about a year into our romantic involvement about the bar incident where he beat the guy badly.
Yes, he knows its done for good, the reality of that set in this morning, thus the threats.
I havent seen him today, just phone conversations so far, tomorrow he leaves for a business trip through Monday, so after today, piece of cake for a while.
This message has been edited by osfan66 on Jul 5, 2007 9:34 AM
You want to hear something funny? I used to hear about battered wives and women whose husbands repeatedly mistreated them and thought to myself, gosh, how could they be so blind and foolish to allow themselve to be involved with someone like that and then why on earth would you stay, the first time they messed up I'd be gone so fast it would make their head spin.
HA! HA! HA! Isn't that funny??? Look at me now!!! Isn't it funny how life teaches us hard lessons. I am actually so ashamed that I ever thought that way.
My mother used to say, you dont know until you have walked a day in their shoes....So True!!!!!
Big hugs osfan, although I don't know how much I can spare for you right now, I'm shaking as I type.
But its very true, the thought I keep thinking is that I'd always told myself I'd be out the door if my W every had an A. And I'm still here. Life is never as simple as we imagine it before hand.
If only things were black and white.
Good luck, and it sounds like you are doing the right thing. Be strong and take care.
I think it is pretty normal for us to look at others' lives and make judgments, but sometimes we just don't have the 20/20 we need to objectively examine our own lives. We learn to make excuses for our own situations.
I guess you know you need to stand up to him firmly and not let him bully you into submission. He needs to know that all the threats in the world will NOT make you stay with him but will make you even more determined to end this relationship.
And hey, once you are out of this, he'll be free to take up full-time with OW if that is what he decides he wants to do. (If so, OW will get a big surprise! ) Sorry, my bad!
Anyway, seriously, I want you to take care of yourself. I am GLAD he will be gone. You'll just have more time alone to get done what you need to do to extract yourself from this situation.
My heart breaks for you at the same time that I admire your strength and resolve. I think many of us have felt foolish because we are in situations we never would have imagined for ourselves. So many times prior to D day, I felt pity for BS and "knew" I would never accept that behavior. Seems this another lesson in life - never judge because we can never truly know and understand someone else's situation and nothing is as black and white as we would like.
But, you should feel so proud because you are not accepting the unacceptable and are doing what is right for YOU. I am inspired by your courage and know that, if faced with any more lies, I will summon thoughts of you, Coral and the many others here who have taken control of their lives.
It is truly scarey to deal with someone with a history of lies. My H adopted lying as a way of life early in life so that he could stay out of trouble, not face the consequences of anything. (Like FF H, he grew up in an abusive home and found safety in lying.)There were early signals that he was a liar before we married but I chose to ignore them thinking all would change when we got married and believing that I was special and could "save" him. My IC has helped me understand my H's dependence on lying and that has made a difference for me. He is dealing with those issues but I will always be on guard for the return of the deceit.
H's skill at lying was one of the most shocking discoveries....I thought he was way too noble for that, too innocent, that his emotionally abusive behavior was proof that he shared everything with me, even the worst of him. Guess that is what is called delusional thinking. It is so much better to be aware, even if a bit sadder.
Also, I no longer want to be anyone's savior.
I wish you continued courage and strength. I know you will find a better life for yourself and your kids because you are brave, loving, kind and now, aware.
Well, he just left, it was quite an interesting display to witness.
He came storming in here slamming doors, throwing stuff down, screaming that Im nothing without him and I'll have nothing when he's gone.
I very calmly turned to him and said "I would gladly give up my home and everything I have and go live in a shelter or on the street just to be able to wake up in the morning living in complete truth, so have at it."
He broke down and begged and pleaded and all that blah, blah blah. I looked straight into his eyes and thought, boy you are really good. It was actually kind of funny, in a sick sort of way.
Then he left sort of the way he came in, only this time he said "you know I can't be alone and I won't be for long, so if you tell me it's over just know what you've lost".
I just said, yeah, you too. Bye.
Why does this feel good? I cant stop smiling. This is the best laugh I've had for months. Im going to kick back, for the rest of the day and enjoy it, going to the beach tomorrow and veg out for the weekend I feel great! Hope it lasts!!
Wow! Quite a display! And he definitely gave you a show to cement your decision. Slamming doors, yelling, demeaning you, throwing a tantrum, and threatening to quickly become involved with someone else. Excuse me, were those ways you were trying to entice Osfan back to you???????
I love that this all happened in the afterglow of Independence Day. Happy freedom, my dear. Enjoy a really delightful weekend (and stay safe!! your earlier post was a bit scary)
Be well. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
That was really attractive, you should have seen it. Nothing short of kindergarten! He's gone now, I was a little nervous at first before I saw him but I was so frustrated and angry with the whole situation I really didnt have a chance to be scared.
He's on his way to pack and leave for his trip. So, my kids are on vacation and now so am I!!!
Thanks for your post, it made me smile (inbetween giggles!)
Hey Fairy,
I would have to go with six.
This message has been edited by osfan66 on Jul 5, 2007 1:39 PM
And it is freeing and empowering to rid yourself of something that you know is not good for you. I can understand why you feel good. This is healthy behavior!!!!!
You stood up for yourself and what is right for you and I am so proud.
) Sorry, my bad! 