I've been flicking through many threads and the themes that come out just don't seem to match up with my situation. Firstly i feel a minority being a male BS.

Given that D-Day was only 3 days ago all I can manage right now is a brain dump. Hope anyone can be bothered to read this.

She told me about the A monday night, in tears and "convinced" our M was over. She told me had the roles been reversed she would never forgive me. Does that make me stupid wanting to forgive her? She says she wants me. After all she could have left to be with this other guy, but didn't, and telling me can't have been easy. Been together over 3 years, married ~18 months. A lasted ~1 month.

Big problem is I can't enforce NC with the OM - he was her "best friend". More importantly he was the main connection she has to her group of friends. Complete NC would mean she could never see her friends. Even so, I'm pretty cut up I had to ask her to cut of contact for a week - and she wasn't enthusiastic about it. I just feel this would have been so much easier if she had enthusiastically rejected him. She told me she ended it, but her idea of ended it is stopping the PA. I don't want her using him for any emotional support - surely that isn't unreasonable? Some stuff must have been wrong between us, and we've talked loads since D-Day, and i just don't want her still to get her crutches from him?

Its all extra hard because she's been suffering from depression for quite a few months, and so if I push her too hard I'm scared what she might do. This is all tied up with low self esteem and attention issues. But she's kept me at arms distance, so its hard to understand. We are going to go to MC so i hope that helps.

Am just so devestated that she managed to be so devious and lie to me so well. Not only was I convinced, but I was made to feel guilty and bad for not trusting her. She used my caring against her. She stayed over at his house a number of times, and made me feel guilty for asking her to come home when it had got late.

Also pretty rotten that the relationship sounds so much like a replicate of what we were like early on. Before the depression and before we started to go downhill. If she had wanted to be like that - why not with me?

What I really am not seeing in other posts though, is that despite all that, in some ways we are improving. I can't trust her at all, and she's not making that as easy as it could (as I commented earlier) but she has told the guy not to contact her, and she's showing me her phone and anything he sends her (or at least she SAYS she is). And yet we had fun last night (yes on 3 days after D-Day), nothing intimate, but we laughed and were "happy" in a way we hadn't been in a long time. I would love things to go back like that. Can they? Or is this a mirage?

And on the posts talking about being intimate. That's really wierd with us. She ended it with him on Fri, and then slept with me on Sat (woke me up even) after not having done so for a few months. Then told me about the A on monday. Odd? And I'm the BS, and yet I still really want her, but she says I can't push her and she isn't ready? Is this weird?

I don't have any "evidence" or even the slightest hint that could make me think she isn't sincere and that anything is still going on. Except that I don't trust her, so I almost don't need evidence.

I'm scared that I really want her back, she says she wants me back, we can be good together, she's ill (and over the period of the A she had had her medication doubled, but the came of it last week - she says "it wasn't her doing it - it felt like someone else"), so shouldn't I be compassionate?

What if my mistrust and suspicion destroys something that could have been saved? What if I throw my marriage away?

Sorry this is so long and confused. Any support is welcome right now.

Hi there Im hearing you and I understand what you are feeling. My fiance's ONS just had her baby three weeks ago but we have been back 2gether since 1 month after the ONS. This is been long and very difficult. And Im not saying I'm over that but I do feel I have put this situation in its place in the past and we are moving forward. The mother is trash and my fiance (with my help) put the child up for adoption with a wonderful family he knows and they are very happy. The legal work will be done in 9 days and it will all be over. After almost a year, we just now over the past we are becoming the couple we once were. My fear was that they would become the wonderful love that we had...but they didn't. When it happened I let go and did sort of the 180 and he ended up crawling back but this was a process, he still was attached to her. It took several months. When he finally decided to cut all ties with her, thats when she told him she was pregnant. I guess what Im trying to say is our RELATIONSHIP was gravely ill, and we both had 2 step back without any anger or tears and truely decide deep down what we wanted (and that took some time). You cant heal if she cannot give up 100 percent of her heart to the relationship. She cant give 100 percent until he is completely out of her life forever. Until that happens there will always be a thread of connection to him at your expense. Is she willing to do that? That will be the cold hard question you need her to answer with a clear yes or no. That answer will answer all of your other questions. You cant do it for her she has to do it.

Hi again Adam, Im sorry that was so long. Moving forward, If she is TRUELY 100 PERCENT committed to the relationship and cutting all contact with this man forever, you both may have that chance to completely rebuild your relationship to a closer place that may be better than ever. I feel that way about the relationship with my fiance right now and Im very hopeful for the future. I believe that we are building something even stronger than we once had. The key is going slow and building respect and honoring each others boundaries and focusing on honesty and constant communication. She may have depression problems but the relationship is ill too. With care both may be able to be fixed and healed to be better than ever. Just go slow and steady don't waiver on the NC with other man that is poison. Build, build, build one brick at a time. Best of luck to you, and welcome

Adam,

Welcome to the group no one wants to join. But know that you have come to the right place for support and understanding. You are correct that not as many men post here, but as Ami said that is likely due to embarrassment factors. Also, the numbers seem to support that more men than women have A although that is changing according to recent reports.

Everything you wrote is pretty normal. Please remember that whether or not your relationship had problems, the A was NOT your fault. It was her choice. So even if she tries to shift blame onto you, remember that there is NO excuse to have an A.

My H and I went through hysterical bonding too, and I believe you will find a number of folks here who did too.

It is also pretty common for WS to want to hold onto the AP, but no contact must be enforced if the marriage is to have a chance to heal. As Ami wrote, your W made the choice, so she must suffer the consequences of her behavior, and if part of the consequences means no contact with mutual friends, then so be it.

If people were clearheaded enough to think through all the positive consequences of having an affair, I believe most people would run, not walk, away.

I'm sorry you are hurting. Please post whenever you feel the need. It is very important that you take care of yourself right now because when we are sleep deprived, depressed, starving, we can not think straight, and if ever there were a time when we needed all our brain power, this is it.

Gentle fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

"She told me about the A monday night, in tears and "convinced" our M was over. She told me had the roles been reversed she would never forgive me. Does that make me stupid wanting to forgive her? She says she wants me. After all she could have left to be with this other guy, but didn't, and telling me can't have been easy. Been together over 3 years, married ~18 months. A lasted ~1 month."

That doesn't make you stupid, just a very loving, committed husband who understands that bad choices (even huge, whopping ones like this) happen. Your situation sounds a lot like mine (only I'm female), right down to the length of our R. He told me about the A and, to my surprise, my first response was that I would forgive him if it was over. He thought for sure that this info was the end of the M and the look of shock when I offered forgiveness is memorable - he never thought I would stick around.

I won't lie, though, it is hard. But, there are good resources out there, and a good support system on this site, that will help you through this roller coaster.

Good luck!

Chinook

Dear Adam,

First, sorry that you find yourself here. I still wonder how it came to this and many times sit in disbelieve that I am posting on this site but I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I am also a male BS and I think our situation, even though different, is similar in many aspects. Compared to people here my marriage is fairly young. It breaks my heart to know that D-Day was only 3 days ago for you. I am 5 months away and people here can attests that I am still in a world of hurt. I won¡¦t spend my whole post telling you my story, if you click on my name, my story is on my profile. I just wanted to you know that there are some similarities between our situation. My W also confessed and from what I have heard from people here, that is a good thing and puts us ahead of the came in the healing process compared to many others.

I was also intimate with my wife the night of D-Day. I never knew there was a phrase for it but learned now from Ami that I too experienced ¡§hysterical bonding¡¨. Who knew ƒº
That (our intimate life) along with other stuff like completed openness and open communication is actually part of many things that turned out better as a result of the A. I guess what I am trying to say is even though I am still daily struggling with this whole thing, some positive things has developed and it gives you hope for the future.

Touching on the subject of NC, I agree with Ami. NC is absolutely a necessity and very important for reconciliation to even take place. That is one of the reasons I am still struggling as much as I am because my W still works with the OP. She does how ever understand the importance of NC and has been trying very hard to get out. Your wife is not forced into a situation like a work environment where it might not be as easy enforce the NC rule. Her has a choice and if she wants your marriage to work she has to choose you and the marriage. Yes it will suck to loose your friends but like Ami said, she made that choice when she crossed the boundaries of friendship. My W and I both realize that to make this work it is going to take a lot of effort and hard work from both sides and even then it will take a long time.

Finally, the people here are great and have been a huge support for me so far and is still a great help during my continuing struggle, so please find comfort in the fact that we are all here during those dark moments that still lie ahead.

welcome to the most wonderful board . so sorry for your pain....

MY story is different if you ever read my post.. I understand the sleeping with you . I have been there with H and him using me because he can't have the person he was just with....

I"M not good at advice all I can say is I wish you all the healing power in the world to get pasted this ....

april

Thank you for all your advice, but everyone has misread what I said.

I would have loved hysterical bonding - but that didn't happen.

She ended the affair Fri.
THEN slept with me Sat (her actively seeking it - waking me up - point being that she didn't "give in to me" - she for some reason wanted it after months of not doing).
Then she told me on monday.

Sicne then I would have loved to have been with her again like that, but SHE hasn't be able to. When she told me I really wanted to, but she refused me, and has done since. We've agreed that I won't make a move until she's "ready".

Hardly the same.

Rather odd no?

Am very glad so many people have more optimism than me though. Also glad I'm not alone...

Sorry we misread what you wrote. You will also find that her behavior is not unusual either. Sometimes WS are afraid to have sex with BS because they are afraid of disappointing the BS. Have you read any of the books about A? Either Spring or Glass addressed this issue in her book, so you might want to read those books and see what they have to say. (Actually their books were the most helpful to me in understanding the nature of A.)

fairyfriend

Adam,

I also want to welcome you o Healing Hearts.

Just a thought that occurred to me as I was reading the post... You haven't had sex with your wife for a while... then she wakes you up on Sat.. has sex Now tells you no for the time being...

I realize that she has problems...but the thought crossed my mind that she "may" be or thinking she may be pregnant and concerned that it may be OM's child... sex with you muddles up the picture...so just a word of caution for the time being.. I don't want to hurt you any more than you are but this happens and you need to be aware.

Also please have yourself tested for STD's...the OM is a single person and you don't know his history.

take care,

Pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

Thank you for your concern,

Its a very good point, and one I wouldn't have thought of, but I don't think its the case.

She has told me she used protection, and she has taken a pregnancy test.

(As for me, we used protection)

Although...

I am now not totally sure. EEeeek. That's messed me up something now.

Pregnancy test would only work after her period is overdue, and clearly it hasn't come yet THIS time.

I'm scared. I'm so scared. I wish I'd never read that.

EDIT : hold on I'm being stupid. We used protection. So even if she was pregnant, that couldn't have been her motive. To confuse the issue - since I will know its not mine.

I now see why you told me this was going to be a rollercoaster... I was unprepared for that.

Adam,

I don't want to pile on you, but the truth is MANY WS have initially told the BS that they used protection with AP, but then admitted later that either they didn't, or they never bothered to ask the AP about protection.

I had a tubal ligation after the birth of our second child rather than my H's having a vasectomy. He NEVER used protection, and the first two times OW didn't either. After that she told him she had gotten on the pill, but who knows if she was telling the truth or not.

A are frightening for a lot of reasons.

Sorry.

fairyfriend

Hey, Adam. Welcome. I'm so sorry that you are in a situation where you need this site. I am so happy for you that you've found this site. It can be a great comfort and resource, and I think it is a place of acceptance and understanding no matter what individual details set us apart. There is commonality in that we have all been betrayed.

I remember very early on when I found this site and I compared my situation to everyone's. At that point, I wasn't posting...merely lurking. Was my H's A longer than everyones? Ow. Did we seem to be doing better than others? Yay! They were, I suppose, silly ways of trying to find comfort and define where I was, which mostly was just lost and floundering and so, so very confused.

You've probably seen mention of the rollercoaster. I've never been a big fan of the ones out in the real world. The emotional rollercoaster that an A puts you on is so much worse. Our WS's bought us tickets on a ride that is seemingly endless. There are absolutely GREAT times where you will feel so connected, or enlightened. I remember once going to MC early after DDay and telling the therapist I felt like a phoenix rising from the ashes. That well-meaning bird has since crashed, taken off again, soared and crashed again. Its part of being on a journey of healing.

Be open to whatever it is you're feeling, and be open to the idea that whatever it is, ebbs and flows like the tide. There may be crushing depression. Its going to most likely pass. There will be happiness and normality that feels so warmly peaceful and comfortable. Its going to most likely pass.

The advice to take care of yourself physically is very good advice. It would be great if you could find the means and opportunity for IC (for both of you) and MC.

We'll be here as you need us. Thanks for your own personal courage in jumping in here. We all have valuable lessons to share, whether male or female.

On a side note - Osfan66!!! Its so good to hear your voice. I'm glad to hear things are going well for you. You've been on my mind.

BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Just an alternative theory on her waking you up to be intimate:

If your W was gearing up to tell you about the A, and was horribly scared about that process and your reaction, I can also see a mindset that would say: "I love him. I don't want to lose him. He may completely throw me out of the house when I tell him what's happened. I can't stand the thought of never making love to him again. I'll make love with him before I tell him."

Its just another view. As valid an any other, I suppose. At some point, it would be good to talk with your W about it, if she is truly in a place of being open about her feelings with herself and with you. Do you feel like she's in the "fog" that gets mentioned so much here? BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

No i don't think there is too much fog. And for now I like your explanation of Sat. I have horrible thoughts around not being desirable like that to her, and so that thought is a comfort.

She is acting like she is in shock, which I find a little bit undermining. I should be the one who is upset. However, we do talk, she is open with me, even when I asked the inevitable penis envy question. Although it sounds weird, I'm glad I asked, and in hindsight I got the best answer. She told me he was bigger than me, but that it doesn't make a lot of difference. Although the superficial part of me felt threatened, but it told me a more important thing that she will give me an honest answer even if she thinks its not what I want to hear. We do talk and she does give me answers I don't want to hear.

The best helpful advice I've been given so far is that I don't have to decide whether to stay with her or leave. I can just carrying and see how it goes. I can leave any time I want, and not feel guilty because I tried.

<<MJust an alternative theory on her waking you up to be intimate:

If your W was gearing up to tell you about the A, and was horribly scared about that process and your reaction, I can also see a mindset that would say: "I love him. I don't want to lose him. He may completely throw me out of the house when I tell him what's happened. I can't stand the thought of never making love to him again. I'll make love with him before I tell him.">>

This is what I did too...I hired a PI...found out the A was still going on...made love to my WH so that he would never forget me or how great things really were between us but he messed it all up by having an A, and continuing to have the A after d-day #1....the next day I changed all of the locks in the house while he was at work....then I packed his bags, wrote him a letter that said hope you and OW will be happy together, good-bye, Im divorcing you, and dropped them off in front of our business....I was convinced our marriage was over...it was "I love you and good-bye" sex.

WH came home and begged for another chance. I told him he ahd to earn another chance and we seperated for awhile. We are still together and trying to work things out. It has been 10 months since d-day #2.

Welcome to The Healing Heart...


~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Adam - I'm borrowing what you wrote over on the "Antidepressants" thread.

"I hope she knows what a loving H you are."

If she did, then why the A? sob

One of the most difficult aspects of this scenario that I have been grappling with for my 10 months now since DDay is how the heck can someone who loves their spouse have an affair? My H is adament - - absolutely adament - - that he loved me during the entire 3 years of his A. Yet having an A is one of the most unloving, destructive acts imaginable. How does love for spouse exist while emotionally and physically being with someone else?

You'll hear this again and again, Adam, and I think honestly its too early in the process for it to really make any sense at all, but the A had nothing to do with you. Whatever emotional void or need is within your W existed prior to your relationship and wasn't something that was going to be fixed or filled by your (or anyone else's) love.

Hearing that is a separate pain for a BS. We all want to believe our love was/is strong enough and means enough to our WS that it will support, carry, strengthen, and heal our spouse from whatever baggage they brought to the marriage. It just doesn't work that way, and your W has to be willing to face whatever personal demons she has that created this destructive need.

The advice you mentioned is very good. Don't make any big decisions early on. I wish you strength today. You have a lot of new friends here that really care and are pulling for you. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Adam:

I'm another man who's wife was involved in adultery. There are a lot more of us than any of us would like.

Really, your wife needs to explain why she did this, but unless she connected to her feelings and motives fairly well, then there's a good chance she'll struggle to explain it. My wife struggled to answer many, many of these kinds of questions because she was unwilling to "go there". Some that was to avoid giving answers that would threaten her chances of saving the marriage, some of that was to avoid understanding the depravity of what she had done.

Did your wife have sex with the OM on more occasions, or only on last Friday? My wife once told me that she felt that sex with the OM "filled her with darkness" and she felt that sex with me (after D-day) somehow was cleansing.

As far as the friendship issues are concerned, I understand your points, but I also agree with others, that unless there is a very strong reason otherwise the friendships have already been broken by this. In my case the OM was our neighbor and we have not lived there since shortly after D-day. I think that was a very important and necessary step in our healing, even though it was unfortunate (and not even very fair) that we had to make this sacrifice.

Finally, I also didn't think we were in "the fog" after d-day, but the truth is that we were deeply in our own kind of fog. My wife was thinking she could avoid/lie/evade her way back to normal, particularly regarding her responsibility for the affair, while I was thinking that it was the fault of the OM and that there was a reason for me to excuse her rather than forgive her.

Welcome to our site. I hope you find the help you need here.

TomJ

She says it was about 5 or 6 times. Which we have discussed that for a 1 month affair, when she had opportunity for plenty more, this isn't a lot. Its still enough though - but she'd been telling me she had no libido for a long time.

((((hugs)))I am so sorry for your pain.....I'm glad you came here to talk to us, but sorry this happened to you.
please take care of yourself(eat and sleep), try to get with friends and family for fun, so that you can have relief from this awful pain, during some part of the day..It might be a major help, to look for IC for yourself and, encourage your wife to do the same, IC helps to sort thru feelings,and learn how to communicate in a way that works for you guys...continue to let us know how things are
Lisa

Female BS
Been together 3 years, married 7 months, A lasted 6 weeks, D-day 2 months

My husband has a chronic illness and I go on the chat for the illness. Men do not go on that site to discuss emotional issues either - yet there are more men that have that problem than women. Just because they aren't posting doesn't mean they aren't out there or that they aren't reading your post and totally relating to you.

You are not stupid for wanting to forgive her. You are in shock and want this to not be happening and want to get back to "before". I had a room rented and was ready and free to go. I stayed, I have no logical reason to stay. I don't know why I want to forgive him, I just do. I told a friend that I don't know if I'm a compassionate person ready to face conflict and build character or if I'm just an idiot. His very wise response was - sometimes the difference between those two things is very small.

I knew enough to force a confession. He could have left or told me to leave and left me wondering if I was a crazy psycho drama queen. But, he chose to face the music and confess. I've come to value that confession as a true, amazing act of courage. If your W told you, I think that is really a good thing.

It would have been easier if she rejected him the healing doesn't really start until NC starts. It is sad if she goes to him for emotional support. There is no way you could want her to do that, its absolutely reasonable for you to not want her to do that.

I believe my H has been suffering from some form of depression since the diagnosis of his chronic illness. I worry about pushing too. A's are very complex and everyone has to heal - you, her, and your marriage. She is also in pain and confused. You've acknowledged some of her other issues. The arms length may just be a result of total confusion on her part. Be patient, if you can.

The lies are painful. But, once you separate them from being many mulititudes of malicious acts against you - which they are not malicious, they become a less meaningful. What I believe is that the betrayer is not thinking "now I'll do this and that'll really hurt my spouse." They are thinking "what my spouse doesn't know won't hurt and I'm taking care of me right now and that's what I need to do." I started to deal with it as one bad incident rather than cycling through the list of lies. The betrayal is still painful, but with time and healing it becomes manageable. It's so horrible when you feel guilty and then find out what you thought was really true. My worst feeling is that I didn't trust myself. It's just one more betrayer behavior that allows them to continue to do what they are doing. It should be about you, but it has nothing to do with you - that almost feels worse, but later on it'll make more sense.

It took me a long time to recognize what my H was doing to rebuild trust. First he had no idea what to do, then was not meeting my vision of what he should be doing - down on his knees, begging forgiveness,... I had to readjust my expectations, but it took weeks for me to be willing to do that. I finally had to in order to stay sane.

We have good days, disconnect days, all out anger days, lovey dovey days - I call those lala land. I don't know what normal is anymore. But, I guess there's no going back because going back was lala land - it wasn't deep trusting open communication, total two way connection, and a deep understanding of self and each other. That's now the promised land. The A is the opportunity to reach the promised land.

It's not your mistrust and suspicion that is destroying anything! It's her horrid behavior that destroyed your marriage - even if you decide to go away. Sometimes I get so mad that this decision was put back on my shoulders. If you throw this shambles of a marriage away you will have a wonderful beautiful life ahead of you filled with opportunity to have a wonderful, healthy, trusting relationship with someone else. My thought is that this beautiful future relationship is possible if I give this one I have now the chance that I need to give it - but if I run away in anger and fear and mistrust then that is what I will bring to my next relationship. I just want to see what happens if I try - is the promised land really achievable? It feels like a grand experiment sometimes.