Hello everyone,

I haven't been here for a bit. Sometimes that is a good thing I suppose.

Whatever you want to call the person who pays the bills in our home, just advised he is out for the night (not coming home), tomorrow evening. He got all upset when I asked where/with whom. He said, "does it matter what I am doing? I am playing poker and you don't know him". He then said, "let me guess, you are gonna call my cell to check up on me.". I said yep. He said, "why do you do this?" I said, because I live this painful life because I feel I have to (yes, yes, yes, I know I have choices).........I went on to say, that I just need to know you are where you say you are and that it just gives me comfort. I don't get the big deal why he get's upset that I need this comfort if he is DOING NOTHING WRONG/INDECENT.

Can someone explain why he gets so upset?

Oh, he also said, "I might as well let you know, I am also going to a FRIENDS cottage in acouple weeks?" I then told him, you do and be prepared to find all your clothing at your Moms. I will move it there.

I realize some of you here (HE DOES), feel we are not a couple apart from sharing children responsbilities, BUT...............this is really hard to live this way just the same. Why does he do this to me? He knows it causes me pain when he goes out? I THINK THIS IS REALLY CRUEL AND IMATURE TO DO TO SOMEONE!

Do you think I have no right to complain because my children and I are otherwise "taken care of financially/security?"

LonelyMomWife

There is more to being a father and husband than paying the bills, and I think you know that. You deserve to have your husband present in the marriage, otherwise there really is no marriage is there? And as far as finances go, he will be legally responsible whether you are together or not.

I have to say, if you make a threat, such as if he goes to the cottage with his "friend" his clothes will be waiting for him at his moms, MEAN IT and follow through with it. The more threats you make and nothing comes of them the less it means to him cause he knows they are only words and you wont actually do it. Dont make threats unless you are ready, willing, and able to carry them out. And he will keep doing what he wants because he can without any real consequences.

And you are not stupid....you are just trying to survive this awful mess.
(((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Thank you for your reply.

Well, we got into on the phone again. He doesn't get my pain and what his going out/away does to me. Actually, I think he doesn't care. As I said, he figures as long as his kids are taken care of financially by him and he allows me to stay home and take care of them, why am I complaining. So, I proposed it to him like this........

I said, let's say that your bosses new wife who WORSHIPS her husband, found out he cheated on her before they married. Well, she lives by "no cheating", atleast these are the rules that apply supposedly to her relationship. She hasn't a huge problem that mine has gone and done this. She too aparently feels that as long as my kiddies are taken care of, why can't my husband live with us. Anyhow...let's say she ends her relationship with the man she adores, worships and had planned to spend the rest of her life wife. But, for various reasons they have to remain living in the same home. Even though it kills her because she loves him still, he then decides that since it is over, he can go out each weekend, do whatever he wants. Meanwhile, her love is still very real for him, she sits these night with her heart still bleeding out, wondering where he is, with him. I said to my hsuband, do you think she would ever heal this way? He then stated, o.k. I get it now.

He then asked, "do you want me to move out?". I am not giving you numbers/addresses of where I am going. He states this claiming he is not cheating, just doesn't feel he has to, even though it would relieve me some to know he is not with someone eslse. The thing is, he still wants to come and stay here three nights aweek. I say for convenience.

God help me. What do I do? I think my life/my kids life will just get harder if he leaves.

Why, oh why, is he doing this to me? TO HIS KIDS?

Please, tell me? Do you think he is trying to get me to kick him out so he can live with his conscinece and he can tell kids it was Mommy who kicked him out and they blame me in years to come? WHY DOES HE NOT SIMPLY GIVE ME ADDRESSES/NUMBERS WHEN HE GOES OUT TO EASE MY MIND.

Help!

LonelyMomWife

Sorry to disagree with you....Please don't put yourself down. Stupid? I think not.
Loving, caring, attentive, wounded to the core, PTSD sufferer--yes, all of these things--but stupid? No.

The likely reason your H is not willing to ease the mind of the one he vowed to "honor and cherish above all others..." could be because he is a narcissistic & immature person who values himself and his "freedom" more than his wife and children. These are not the hallmarks of a real man.

The obvious toll that your H's intransigence and selfish attitude has taken on your self esteem is a terrible thing, lonelymomwife. Your hypervigilance is a normal response to PTSD. Please find a trusted friend or therapist to help you sift through your hurt--externalize it, as you have been doing here on HH.

There are no good answers but those that we create for ourselves out of whole cloth. The side effects of the PTSD can become all-consuming....I know, I've been there too. We often define ourselves through our close relationships, and feel like a failure when things turn bad, even when we had no part in it. What could be more normal, more human,than that?

I just want to affirm that I would react the same way that you do under the circumstances, about wanting to know his whereabouts. Steel yourself up so you can continue to be there for your children.
Focus your mind and heart on those who love you and let the stress, just for this moment, dissipate.
BB

Hey, Lonely! Thanks for your "thank you" over on the thread I started regarding apologies to an OW's spouse. I'm so very, very glad that the website I referred you to has been a place of comfort and friendship and understanding regarding your special needs son and how draining this is on you.

As for your other "circumstance": - -

Your plight is very unique, and obviously very painful and frustrating for you. You've done a very good job previously explaining how your H is needed in the household for financial reasons and also to help care(though with your H we use the term "care" loosely, from how you've described his parenting) for your sons.

I wanted to ask you, though, about the example you gave your H over the phone with the boss's wife. It was unclear to me if it is a hypothetical situation or one that mirrors your own. You say:

"Anyhow...let's say she ends her relationship with the man she adores, worships and had planned to spend the rest of her life wife. But, for various reasons they have to remain living in the same home."

What do you mean when you say "she ends her relationship with the man"? It isn't a divorce. It isn't kicking him out. Are they roommates with joint parenting responsibilities?

Believe me: I can only imagine the horrendous internal emotional turmoil this would spin the wife into: to not really want to end a love relationship, but have circumstances that not only end the relationship, but keep them in constant contact despite its ending.

However, if the husband took the wife at her word that the marital relationship was ended, I can see how in this new "role" he would think he COULD come and go (as could she!!) because they are only there for money reasons and the kids. Doesn't mean it would be easy at all. It would break the wife's heart every single moment because there is no relief from her pain, and there is no real moving on for either of them.

In the end, Lonely, from all I've read of your posts, it seems like you and your H either need to

One...need to be living separately (which from all you've said isn't an option...

Or two...remain in an "ended relationship" with your H that continues to hurt you as he moves on and connects with others whether they are poker buddies or "cottage buddies" while you continue to pine for him...

Or three...sit down, redefine and agree on what your current relationship really is, what's livable and what's not and try to find a place that mutually works for both of you.

I'm wondering, too. Since your DDay of a little over 2 years ago (am I remembering right?), has your H acted at all remorseful of tried to reconcile? I remember that he was interested in casual sex with you (such nerve!!!!), but does he show any signs of loving you?

He sounds very heartless and done. That is a horrible thing to have to look at everyday. How can you make this situation bearable for you? And for your sons? They've got to see and feel how hard this is, too.

As a final thought, what would happen if you told him you were taking off for a long weekend (before or after his cottage jaunt) and he'd have to watch the kids himself during that time? If this isn't going to be a home with marital love, it should at least be a home with fairness.

((hugs)) to you. I know you are hurting terribly, and I wish I had more answers than questions. BlueIris



"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Thank you for your replies. REALLY!

Something like this makes you become obbsesive. Finding out, wondering why,,,,,.

I live with pain and keep it to myself (well, don't lay into him), until he announces these nights out/weekends away, and this set's things back into painful painful tail spins.

I am tryign to recall what was last asked of me? The hypothetical situation is that, but not. I mean, his boss did cheat on his now wife before they married. She does not know this. I DO. Her husband is not madly in love with her, his now wife. He said to my husband, well...........we have been together for along time and I would hurt her to end our relationship. Plus, I am getting older and want to have kids. I believe he settled for her. But, no........he is not madly in love. How would his wife feel knowing all this? They do not have children yet. They just married after dating for 15 years. I was just tryign to point out to my husband who is "best friends" with them both (imagine, they adore my husband), how much pain she would feel if she knew he had cheated on her. I asked him to imagine that for whatever reasons they had to remain living together (BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE AS SHE HAS PLENTY OF MONEY AND THEY HAVE NO KIDS), but if it were and she or even he ended their marriage but remainded living together, the heartache this would cause the wife who adores/worships husband to watch him go out nights and not tell where he was going. I explained, maybe now you can see or imagine how this would kill her (what he would be doing), as you kill me when you do this to me. Sitting, wondering and waiting if only because you still love this person.

You asked if ever he felt remorseful? At the beginning after he admitted to the affair, he said the crueleest things. ..........ie. I don't regret it, I only regret telling you about it. He said he was not stupid like other men to stay with a woman he did not love. He said all men were following around (like this was the norm). He said, do you want me to stay living with you, when I don't love you. Basically, he really wanted out and went out of his way to hurt me and torment me, inorder for me to kick him out. When intially I did kick him out, he said "don't you think this is what I wanted?" He didn't look like the bad guy to his friends/kids.
I did eventually order him back. My child was (is) a handful.
I decided I did not want to do this parenting thing myself.

I recall once he cried, saying he was sorry. There was even a time he said we need to work our marriage out. Mainly when he spoke, it was about being for finaincial reasons, but did say I have been with you so long, I can't imagine not being with you. He never put much effort into making me believe he was true about "working things out" and so we never have. He had stopped talking to me after his affair. We have had little conversation in three years now. It has been almost THREE YEARS since discovery day for me.

I don't want this marriage to end. Again, I think I hold on to some Miraculous HOPEFUL MIRACLE as long as he his here, that he will come around. When he goes out, not advising of numbers/addresses, it sets me off. It has me believe he is involved with someone. You can't imagine how this makes me feel, regardless that he says our marriage is over.

God, I am so pained. I can't imagine taking care of these children mainly by myself. I can't imagine even more so managing them while grieving if he goes. I can't imagine if my son/s start acting up if he goes and I have to deal with their additional behaviours. I CAN'T IMAGINE MY LIFE WITHOUT HIM AND HE IS SUCH A F----- AS-----!

How does a man do this to someone he loved once and has spent 23.5 years with? How does he continue to treat her so badly? Causing her (ME) so much pain and stress? What about his children?

Is he involved with someone again do you think? Does he once again want me to kick him out? He says he will leave now (as of today a new agreement to leave), but wants to stay here 3 nights a week. FOR CONVIENCE NO DOUBHT! ONLY FOR CONVENIENCE. Imagine, having your cake and eatting it too!

You have no idea how much I want to tell his support family and support friends off of him. I am so angry on top of everything else!

GOD, HELP ME!

P.S. WE have zero dollars for counselling. ZERO!

I have been thinking about you and wondering if you where ok.. WE are never stupid. ANd I really dont think we should call areself foolish because we where the ones living are life they way we should be. are spouses are the one who are the ones who have messes things up.. PLease dont ever say your stupid... sending you love and hugs and support...
april

I am so sorry for all that you are going through. It breaks my heart to hear how cruel people can be, and then my heart is lifted when I come here and read the opposite on HH. People do care!

I know that you have a different situation than most here, but I have also heard of others who have special needs children and they share the responsibility 50/50. Do you and your H do that? I am wondering, because it sounds like most of the burden is on you while he is out with his "friends". Even a stay at home mom should expect help from her H in regards to caring for the children and not just financially, ESPECIALLY if they have special needs.

Your H may say he understands your pain, and indeed he may to a degree, but it doesnt sound like it. Either that or he is running away from it instead of facing it. Not everyone can look inside of themselves and become a better person in the end. Some choose to wallow in what they have done, instead of making amends. And I cannot say whether your H is still cheating on you but from what you have said I would wonder myself if I were you. And whether he is cheating or not it sounds as if he has checked out emotionally, at least for now.

I think Blue Iris had some great advice. Sit down and talk with your H and reevaluate what exactly your relationship is and where both of you would like it to go. It is way better than wondering what is going on in your own marriage. After that, decide what the best route is to achieve your goals. But like I said, do not make threats...make decisions. There is a BIG difference. And please keep in mind that many parent without living together, and he will be financially responsible whether you are together or not. And if he does leave and lives elsewhere he will have to give you an address and phone number for emergencies and if he plans of taking the kids there you have every right to know where. Seriously think about what you want regarding the marriage, and how the two of you will take care of the children whether you are together or not, and then sit down and talk to your H. It may not ease all of your pain but knowing exactly where you stand and having a plan can certainly reduce some of the stress and uncertainty in your life.

((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

He has told me what he wants.

He wants me to come to terms with the fact that it is over between us. If I can accept this, he can cheat with a clear conscience. I told him for me it will never be over until he leaves our home.

He believes since it is over for him, why can't he cheat and live here (for convenience). He says if he can stay living here, than he will agree to letting the kids stay living here, me staying home for the time being. So, he get's to call the shots since even if I moved to a smaller place, this would then require me going back to work. This is not what I would wish to do (return to work now). I need to be there for my kids, especially my challenging child.

God, everything could change so fast for them. Mommy/Daddy live apart. Kids have to move. Mommy returns to work. I just can't imagine how they may react. I can't imagine doing this to them. I can't imagine doing it all myself.

My dreams....gone. My dreams for my kids.......never have happened. I couldn't even give them this. I feel I have failed them.

I hate this man at this moment. HATE HIM.

My life is hard and painful NO MATTER WHAT! Why should my kids have to pay the price?! WHY?!! WHY?!!!!!!!

The most upsetting thing about your post is that you are taking responsibility for the choices your H has made. Please dont do that. He chose to cheat and create this mess, not you! You did nothing wrong. Please understand that.

There is nothing acceptable about your H's so-called offer. If he wants to live at home he has to work on the marriage, help with the children, and not cheat. He needs to be accountable for his actions and he is not doing that. Of course that would be hard for anyone to live with. I am sorry. (((((hugs))))

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Dear Lonely,

I’m so sorry the last few days have been difficult. You asked in your most recent thread for people to say what they could to your H to help him understand how he’s hurt you. I’m glad that you’ve had some responses to that. But in the end, I don’t think him hearing opinions from strangers is going to change anything in his behavior (as wonderful and right on target as those messages were).

Lonely, you said you’re hoping for a miracle. I don’t think God just provides those —- He gives US the opportunity for changing what WE can or taking a risk, and hopefully, that leads to a miracle.

You said: “We have had little conversation in three years now.” Wow. That’s a long time to live in the same house and not be communicating. Being able to talk—- not yell, cry, threaten, rant, rave, shout, etc—- but really sit down and talk with each other AND HEAR REALLY WHAT EACH OTHER IS SAYING AND FEELING is at the heart of healing a marriage.

We know we can’t change the behavior of another person. They have to want to do it themselves. We can only control what we do and how we behave.

So, if we take that idea and your hope for a miracle, what can you do to change your situation or take a risk that would better your life, and potentially lead to the opportunity for healing (either in your marriage or for yourself)?

You might want to look at the “180” threads that have been on the boards recently, and see if even some of those items are behavior changes you could put into place. The 180 isn’t something I did, so I can’t give you personal experience or advice on that. But there are a number of people that have used it successfully and reading those threads may give you some insight.

I think, more importantly, you need to see if you can invite your H to sit down with you in a non-confrontational way to talk. From everything you’ve told us, both of you are really unhappy. (Yes, he’s looking for happiness in other places that may or may not be appropriate, but it still points to a beginning place of him being unhappy, too. Hey, look at that! You two have something in common. That’s a good place to start.) I know this won’t be easy. Emotions are running high, but they’re going to continue to do so unless one of you breaks that cycle. We can’t make him begin to do that. Is it something you’re willing to try? As crazy as it sounds, for this to work, you have to be able to conduct yourself in a way that your H feels “safe” to be honest with you. He’s not going to want to be honest with you (or probably even have a conversation at all) if he feels like you’re going to yell or cry in response to everything he says. You would need to be able to talk with him, and listen to him, without anger, or interrupting, and if can muster it, even without judgment. You can absolutely talk about how you feel and what you want, but don’t let the conversation become emotionally charged. No sentences that start with "You..."

Its very, very unfortunate: as victims, we Betrayed Spouses should not have to be the ones to extend the olive branch or to lead the charge for reconciliation. But between the fog of a WS, or the mindset that A’s are a normal part of a man’s life, or the escapism that an A provides from a stressful existence, a WS is just not going to be the one to get the ball rolling. If they could do that, there never would have been an A to begin with. They looked instead for the easy way out. For healing to happen now, they need to see that confronting their spouse and being honest with them isn’t going to lead to just another situation to run away from.

After almost three years, I’m not sure what’s left of your feelings for each other. It’s a scary question to ask him, I know. You know for yourself that your feelings for him are pretty jumbled and at odds (you love him/you hate him). Whether his love still exists or not, I think its also a good question to ask if he respects you and what that means to him. Answers to those questions will help point you in the direction of where you can proceed.

This is just my opinion and a few suggestions. You, and you alone, know what you're capable of and what the situation truly is like.

(((Lonely))) We all hear how unhappy you are, and we know from each of our own circumstances, what that unhappiness feels like. Each of us here have a unique heartache that cuts US to the core each morning when we wake up. And each of us here is trying desperately to find our personal road out of this hell. I hope that something either here or somewhere else on the boards at Healing Heart can help you construct a plan of action.

Whatever that plan of action is, it will not be a guarantee of success. But you can certainly look at your best efforts as being the best you could do. Sorry for the massive rambling. I am hoping that your heart finds some rest and peace from the chaos in your life. I truly wish you well. ((hugs)) BlueIris


"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."