Don't know if this is time zone confusion or just me writing it wrong in a post somewhere, but we're going tonight. Am not looking forward to it though because i'm feeling pretty mixed today... my W knows I've been pretty upset (the not sleeping is a hint, and I also get a nervous twitch/shiver when I'm very emotionally stressed [previous time would have been when cat died], which I know she notices when holding my hand because I can feel her tense) but I'm not sure how she'll react if I'm in the mood to challange the M - which I currently am (as in express doubts about it being salvagable, or whether I want to live the rest of my life with someone who did that to me). I'm not sure how much I actually do think that though, and how much I just want to get across the point that she still might lose me, that she isn't doing enough for me.
My main focus though is to try answer some of the A questions that are bothering me, since its a short window of opportunity. In particular I desperately want to know how the A started - the first kiss etc. All I know at the moment is it started some time after the ONS.
Damn that big pond between us and you! My mistake, as I apparently misread something you wrote in which you mentioned going to MC tonight and I thought you wrote the post YESTERDAY!
I don't know what to tell you except that sometimes the first session of counseling is more about discussing what issues need to be discussed rather than actually discussing the issues.
You have every right to be upset, nervous, angry, stressed, etc.
We can all relate to your symptoms, as most (if not all) of us have had our own variations on that theme.
Be strong, clear, and stand up for yourself (i.e. don't let anyone tell you that you had any responsibility for HER A!). I know you want support more than suggestions, so sorry for giving you unsolicited advice. I guess it's the mom in me showing! LOL
Remember that you have a whole group of supporters here and you are in our thoughts.
This will actually be our third MC session, so I'm hoping that some progress or "something" might happen, the first too were back story on us and how we are.
The first one I was the strongest for the M, and W was cautious and resistant (we left arguing - she accused me of trying to win the C over to my side about NC). The second she had soften slightly, and I was distant/resigned, we left holding hands and had a good evening. The third...
Uhm, well, uhm, we can hope that "the third time is the charm."
I would keep my fingers crossed for you, Adam, but honestly, I have the hardest time typing (or anything else for that matter ) with my fingers crossed! LOL
Third time W was very clammed up, and did cry slightly. I vented a little and challenged her about the affair (questions) but she was unable to give answers. She says its still all a blur and can't remember how it started (I asked about their first kiss, when/where and she can't remember. I said I didn't believe her).
She was then very withdrawn afterwards, and cried on the tube home (but didn't come near me) when we got home she still shut me out. I felt very rejected and tried to approach her and she told me to leave her alone. So I did. I walked out. About an hour later I came back though, but was very upset that she seemed to have made no effort to fight for me - no calls or texts or anything. When I came back she didn't come crying to me, still very withdrawn, crying but didn't look at me. I started shouting etc. saying that I was leaving - doesn't that bother her, and all she did was sit on the floor crying. Eventually we were both crying at opposite sides of the room until we started talking again. We've slowly made up a little now, and she's gone back to her working.
I hesitate to offer any analysis of what insights I see from what you've written for all that I know is what I read, and even then I doubt I'm able to correctly understand your intended meaning.
However, I feel a need to caution you about your wife's behavior. I feel that she is using a classic approach to manipulate and control the situation. The first is by claim that she is unable (somehow) to give any account of how the affair unfolded. I highly doubt that she is being fully honest with you or even with herself on this matter (if she actually believes that she can't remember this). It seems more likely to me that she does remember, but knows how angry you will be at hearing it, and is protecting herself from that.
In addition, her crying could also be another method for keeping you at bay.. if you feel sorry for her, then you won't 'hate' her so much. However, I'm not saying that she wants this because of desire for you, rather that she wants it to protect herself. She wants to be liked for what it does for her.
Also, from what I've read in your posts, I understand that your wife had a sexual relationship with the OM prior to her relationship with you. This old sexual relationship then became a friendship which then became the affair. I also recall your description of her relationship with the OM that you wrote on Yahoo Answers. It's very clear to me that your wife's behavoir was practically inviting this affair to occur. Until she becomes more realistic about the draw of sexuality in male/female relationships, she is unlikely to draw up any boundaries of protection for her marriage, and unless you become oblivous to the same realities (which I highly doubt you will do), you're unlikely to be unable to trust her in any relationship involving a man.
Again, I probably am overstepping my knowledge of your situation, so I apologize for anything that is too presumptive, but if there is something here that helps, that is my only wish.
And thank you for sharing them with me, but the story is a little different.
Recap: DD1 a drunken indiscretion that went further than she intended, pretty much amounting to rape (although her consenting actions prior to rape were already infidelity - just the guy took it further than she wanted and "had his way with her"). She was very drunk. This was with the ex of hers. NC has not really been an issue with this guy as she appears to now hate him. No protection used, no EA. (so I would say classic ONS with a twist).
DD1 was 2 days later. After this we were supposed to be "fixing things" but instead she started an A with a DIFFERENT man. This man had been a good friend for a long time (before me), but no romantic history together. Since reunion they had become "best friends" and she confided about the ONS with him. Somehow the A started and this was a "proper" relationship. The EA was total, and I'm now seeing it as with a side order of sex (the guy would clearly have wanted sex in the relationship, and my W would have accepted that - although she probably didn't actively seek it - i.e. the sex wasn't the motive). It is this A that is centre stage and this man is the usual OM in my posts.
As far as her "tactics" there may be some truth in it, but I think the biggest problem is something that she has always done and that is to withdraw when she is upset. The particular problem is that when she feels she has done something to upset me she backs away from me very submissively - almost like "he's upset with me I should go to my room, he won't want me around". Unfortunately what I need is "he's upset me I should seek forgiveness".
Edit: Also the yahoo answers thing was DURING the affair. They acted like a happy couple infront of me and convinced me they were just "good friends".
This message has been edited by AdamMJG on Jul 11, 2007 6:05 PM
I guess I either got it wrong, or I wasn't clear enough about what I thought has transpired.
I wasn't making any references to the rape you mentioned, but I thought you wrote somewhere that your wife had previously (prior to her relationship with you) been involved sexually with the OM. I thought you wrote that was a short situation (something like an ONS), then evolved into a friendship. It was during this friendship phase of their relationship that your marriage took place. Of course, more recently the rape occured, she sought counsel in the OM and their sexual relationship (re)developed.
Also, as far as her tactics go, I wouldn't be suprised if she was unaware of these them becuase most people's defensive approaches are so instictive they hardly know they are doing them. This is one place that individual counseling can help tremendously, provided the counselor is willing and able to recognize and 'confront' the person.
There had never been any romantic relationship between the OM and my W before the A, I think you must have got muddle up between the first man and the second.
BTW I am going to MC on my own next week, as W will be too busy working/studying to go.
<<BTW I am going to MC on my own next week, as W will be too busy working/studying to go.>>
While I agree that going on your own is OK, it is MC, not IC. BTW You may like IC (I know I do). I would also just like to caution you about letting your wife get out of going to MC due to work/studying, or just too busy. If the marriage is a priotity to her, then you guys need to schedule MC accordingly to fit both of your schedules. Yes, sometimes it cannot be helped if something comes up, but there is no reason it cannot be rescheduled when you both know she cannot make it in advance. Otherwise she is going to think it is no big deal to miss sessions and it will become harder to press the issue. The next thing you know you will always be going alone because she has this or that to do. Sure IC will help you, and I highly reccomend it to anyone
My WH was also too busy to go...claimed his time was too precious and could be better spent. Shows you where his priorites were. Really, he just didnt want to go...didnt want to be told he was not thinking of the marriage and was being selfish...and didnt want to feel bad or work on the marriage. Now he is in IC and doing better. But we really need to pick up MC again, and soon. Just trying to show you how it can deteriorate. It's all about choices and priorities. Where are hers while you are hurting and needing counsel? Where is her commitment to the marriage? By going to MC she is showing you that the marriage is a priority.....by not going she is showing you the opposite. JMHO
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
with the sentiment and general ideas, but I think in this case it isn't quite so bad. It was discussed at MC what the plan was and she is going the week after. It was basically the problem that it would have been too close to before her exams, and so it would just have been a fortnight between sessions, but the C suggested I could go on my own next week if I wanted. I thought I wouldn't mind one on my own, and my W thought it wouldn't be a bad idea either, thinking that it might help me to be able to deal with my feelings away from her while she studies. We are going to MC (together) the day after her exams though - there is no room in my mind for extending the excuse after her exams, after her exams M is top top top priority (and she has shown no indication that she disagrees).
First of all, I think it's great that you're willing to compromise and work with your wife to find a solution. It's important for a couple in crisis to work together to find a path through recovery.
Your wife should also display flexiblity and compromise. Your marriage has experienced a major trauma... a gunshot wound to the head so to speak. If you or your wife had a gunshot wound to the head, wouldn't both of you drop EVERYTHING to in order to seek treatment for it? Supposed the wounded person were rendered unconscous (for an extended temporary time period) as a consequence. Would school and work take precidence, or would the unaffected person work to attend to their spouse while doing their best to meet those responsibilities as well?
During the affair, your wife served primarily her own needs. She probably has a pattern of doing this, although in smaller ways. In recovery, the WS needs to learn to focus beyond themselves and their own needs.
It is up to you and her to find the balance and to determine whether your wife is doing what she should do to attend to both, but don't allow her to avoid dealing with this situation anymore than is reasonable.
I guess it's the mom in me showing! LOL