Its like looking forward to a first day at a new job - you hope it is a great experiance and want it to arrive, but still nervous!
We do seem to be making progress recently, my W is starting to face up to herself - the fog is definitely receeding. I'm also becoming more assertive and looking after my own needs. And yet oddly with that context we have become more intimate.
Its still only baby steps for now, but we have 5 days to go before (i need a name for it? R-day?)
The suspense of waiting is killing me though! The tit bits of progress give me optimism, but I still can't shift the fear that when the day comes it will be less than my expectations, or worse the whole M will just collapse.
Some stuff/emotions bubbled to the surface last night, when W told me how unhappy/depressed she was. She told me about some things that she wants me to do to help her (to book/plan going out to plays/shows/anything) and that she'd been telling me to do more for almost a year. This got me really down, and made me feel a bit of a failure, even though she said she wasn't blaming me for the A, and was just talking about her happiness.
She needs so much looking after, and I just find it unfair that I have to look after her after what she did to me, and STILL there is no-one to look after me.
I feel like I'm only held together with gaffer tape now. Its like every minute, every step, I have to make a positive assertive decision in my mind NOT to fall apart, not to break down. It never seems appropriate to let go, because I don't know how far I'll fall, and how long it will take to get up again.
You DO have a whole crowd of folks for you; unfortunately, none of us live anywhere close to you--well, some might, but not on THIS side of the big pond.
My question is why your wife couldn't have made plans and told you. Why did/do YOU have to be the one to make all the arrangements? Are her fingers broken that she can't dial a phone?
Add it to the pile of questions. Why can't she do it?
W:"Because I need you to."
W:"Because I'm depressed and I don't have the motivation."
W:"Because if you don't it won't happen"
W:"I have done some things but I need you"
I walked in the rain for two hours today, just feeling numb. I was soaked to the bone, but didn't care, the weather suited me.
Something has collapsed for me now. I don't know if it is just today or longer term.
I've dried myself off and rebuilt my shell - I have my promise to uphold, I have people depending on me (work and W). But that is all I am now - a shell. I feel dead inside.
If there wasn't a very important presentation at work, I don't think I'd even be in the city now - I was tempted to just get on a train with only the wet suit I stood up in and head for a random destination.
I'd probably hurt myself except that it would upset people and make life more difficult for my W. And it would look attention seeking.
Have you read about or had some experience in co-dependency? I don't know if it's something that you've looked into, but it could be that you want to learn about if you are not already abreast of it.
Whoa, Adam, you are so much more than work and your W.
Stop taking the wait of the world on those shoulders. From what I have read you are an incredibly caring and giving man. Your W should feel darn lucky to have such a great guy. You remind me so much of my son. He also feels a need to be the night and shinning armor and keep his partner happy all the time. Unfortunately this is an impossible task when dealing with a person prone to depression. You cannot make her happy. If you had done everything she has mentioned and more she would feel no better. The problem lies inside her, not outside.
You can not make her happy. This is not a failing in you. This is a failing in her. It is not our job to make our partners content in who they are, we just don’t have that magical power.
I have lived with a man prone to depression for over 26 years now. I know of what I speak. For 20 years, up until the affair I struggled against the never ending battle of his, what I liked to call “Woe is me’s.” I never ever in all that time gained any ground, in fact I lost ground continuously and was drowning myself in the effort. You know what, he never knew, I never got any credit for what I did do, because he was to self absorbed in his own misery. All he ever saw was where I was to blame, and where I could have done better. Not where he could help himself. The only help he choose were self medicating, which of course made things much worse in the end. Affairs are a way of self medicating for people battling depression.
Adam, her depression is her battle. You can support her, but you can not do it for her. My counselor drummed this into my head, “Ami no matter what you do, you can not make Mr. Ami happy.” Over and over she told me this, making sure she had my full attention. And still it took me a long time to accept and then longer to implement. I have given up the responsibility for my husbands inner happiness, and it is such a relief. I take responsibility for being a good marital partner, but his self esteem is all his worry.
Please, try to start working towards realizing you can not make her like herself.
You are such a great guy Adam. You can be happy again. Your depression is situational, not permanent. Please remember that.
"You know what, he never knew, I never got any credit for what I did do, because he was to self absorbed in his own misery. All he ever saw was where I was to blame, and where I could have done better."
I feel a bit like that. I do get blamed.
On the other hand
"You can support her, but you can not do it for her"
I stand accused of not supporting her. She was down, worrying about her career and her exams, and I was unable to comfort her. I couldn't find the words on the phone. I just wanted to be left alone. I just hurt so much, and am so muddled, I just couldn't deal with her. And the other night she was stressed over work, and feeling ill, infact she was actually sick. I came home and just went to bed and cried next to her. I didn't get up and comfort her when she was sick. I just lay there. I'm clearly not that nice and caring.
How do I support her? What do I do? What is "supporting" her?
You can support her in getting help for her depression.
You are not a bad guy because you could not be there for her in her worries about school and such. Right now you are hurting too much. This is where she should be helping you. That you are still with her, after what she did is monumental, and right now should be enough. She is taking you for granted.
YOU ARE A GOOD GUY! Do I have to get on a plane and beat that in to you.
Please, Please, read into co-dendency. There are some excellent books on the subject. Very eye opening for the co-dependent. And Adam, you are very co-denpendent.
I know you don't want advice but I would say my sessions at Co-Dependent's Anonymous have helped me out a lot.
Your W may be depressed. You may be depressed. You may be suffering a sort of post traumatic stress disorder as a result of the A.
There is a way out and it always involves taking action. Exercise, going out, looking for opportunities to be happy. Being miserable and looking on the down side can become addictive and very very hard to escape from. I know this from experience. Sometimes staying in the crap feels warm and cosy even when it's painful as well. I hope you both find your way out soon. Regards, Sam
>Once her exams are out of the way I need her to move heaven and earth for me. I know that is selfish but its the truth.
Adam, it sounds to me that you're taking way too much responsibility for you wife's state of mind (i.e her happiness and contentment), and not giving her nearly enough responsibility for doing the reasonably expected things of someone who has betrayed another person and is seeking to reconcile that relationship.
Yes, there are some things you need to do to work with her in good faith, but it really sounds like you're trying to do her work too. That will get you no where, because one reason she needs to do those things is so that she can learn how to be an adult in an adult relationship. If you do these things for her, she'll probably never learn and you'll probably grow to resent it. Let her do the things she needs to do.
I'm glad your wife stepped up and did this. It was sometimes difficult for me to accept these actions from my wife without a hint of disillusionment, since I often felt they were superficial. I wish I could have done better at encouraging my wife in those moments. Hopefully you were able to encourage yours. I think that can go a long way toward reinforcing the positive behavior we want our spouses to do in reconciliation.
At the same time, it's important that the wayward spouse understand that while these things are good ways to rebuild some of the intimacy that is lost, the real meat of recovery hinges on them understanding and attacking the behaviors & attitudes that allowed them to break the marital trust in the first place.
The feelings that you're discussing sound like the kind of confusion that I felt too. I remember I trying to integrate the actions of my wife in her affair with the image that I held before, especially at times when she reinforced the old image I held while at the same time avoiding doing the fundemental things (such as being open and honest with me) that were so important to real recovery.
I was confused because its seeming like she is nicest to me when I'm at my worst - like today, I didn't really support her etc. I was being selfish I thought.
I felt sure today I'd come home to trouble.
Its not a matter of fitting it into the A - its a matter of understanding the relationship - and realising that I clearly don't understand it. Can I have had it wrong for years?
I had always assumed logically that if I do what she wants, she will be nice to me, and if I don't she won't be. Now it turns out that I can reject her or not comfort her, and she reacts with signs of affection that aren't there when I bend over backwards for her.
I see what you're saying. I think this experience has taught me a lot of things I didn't know before, or didn't understand in a concrete way. That's not to say that I'm some kind of expert, but rather, now I've seen a glimpse of how much I never knew before.
Of course, that goes in hand with the wisdom that says knowing what you don't know is 98% of the problem.
"I had always assumed logically that if I do what she wants, she will be nice to me, and if I don't she won't be. Now it turns out that I can reject her or not comfort her, and she reacts with signs of affection that aren't there when I bend over backwards for her"
Mate, this is classic pursuing-distancing behavior. She's producing signs of affection BECAUSE you weren't doing what she wanted. When you DO do what she wants, she doesn't have to do anything to get it, because you already did it.
This reaction is telling you something important about how your W thinks, what the climate is in her head. It is at a much more basic and, dare I say it, childish, level than you think.
I am guessing that you are one of those people who believe that if your partner feels loved and supported, they will treat you well in return. Sadly there are those not-really-grown-up people who will take loving treatment as a sign that instead they may do exactly as they like, including behaving very badly indeed towards the one who is treating them well, because there will be no consequences. It is a very basic and childish attitude best tackled with a very 'behaviorist' response.
Your quote above -well, the first part anyway - could be mine. I too made that assumption, and I was wrong. Doing what my WS wanted and making endless allowances for his actions didn't make him 'be nice' to me at all; it produced (variously) no reaction at all, bland acceptance, and annoyance (in this instance, because I was being nice in response to unpleasantness from him). The way he treated me had everything to do with the climate in his head and nothing much at all with my motivations for doing so, which he could neither understand nor empathise with, because his mind operates at a much more basic level.
Some of us here have explored Imago therapy and ideas about how we select & choose our partners. In several HH partnerships I have seen described we have very mature, tolerant and capable 'adult' people as one half of a partnership in which the other is very childish, immature and unthinking. Yours may be another..which is not to attribute fault at all, but to give you another tool to work with in deciding how you go forward from here. Thinking about M on this level certainly helped me a lot...you may find so too.
A 6 week wait after DDay from "dealing" with any of the fall out of DDay, and infact obliging me to put her needs first after DDay for that length of time, has, quite obviously, taken its toll.
By 1pm tomorrow all "debts/obligations" are paid. She has destroyed the vows, and I have still done everything she wanted - there are no more levers. If I believed in a god I would swear to him that I am not taking any more cr*p.
Great Post. I know a little about imago therapy, and find it very interesting and enlightening.
Adam,
I am worried about you, you are like a bottle of carbonated soda that has been shaken up and now the top is going to be taken off. Please understand that your W will not suddenly get it and see your pain. This does not mean you should not show it, only I don’t want you to expect too much, and cause yourself more pain than you are already in.
Yes, we all have to recover not only from the infidelity but the incredibly insensitive way we were treated by our spouse, during the A and after discovery.
Please try to take it as slow as possible, and remember you are not alone, we all know exactly what you are going through. You are a good man Adam, you deserved none of this.
not surprised you worry about me (although I feel it is rare that people do!)
July 23 2007, 7:58 AM
One comment my W made early on after DDay, that was probably said in self defense, rather that to help me, was in relation to the "images" of her sleeping with the other man. She said "Do images of her previous partners bother me?"
My reaction - great, now I have all the images of her ex's to deal with!
On the other hand there is perhaps a grain of something in the comment, that at the end of the day, we HAVE both had previous partners, so the physical acts are not new - and in all probability the sex was almost certainly more exciting/better in a previous relationship than in the A. The betrayel is the point where the pain is relevant. The physical acts are only relevant to the extent the emphasise the betrayel...
...which works except for the fact that there was a sexual act in the ONS that was her first time! Now THAT gives me issues.
With things like that, I'm not surprised you worry about me, I worry about me. But realistically I've gone through life too long giving my power to other people and putting my feelings second. I'm fed up of people wanting me not to be unhappy, and so forcing myself to feel differently to please them. Quite frankly if I want a nervous breakdown and to stamp my feet I'm bloody well going to. And if my W can't handle it she can go f**k [with?] someone else.
It's quite the powder keg, isn't it? And you've been holding your breath for 6 weeks now, and are more than understandably ready to blow.
I would never have made it as long as you, Adam. Your love and care for W, despite the horrific betrayal, has really shone through in honoring her test committments. And its ironic, certainly, that you've shown her so much honor while you're own pain and suffering should have been honored by her during the last 6 weeks.
You have every right to show your W every feeling under the sun. And, truly, she needs to see that pain and understand it over time for her to heal, for you to heal and for the M to heal. But please heed Ami's words; its so unlikely that she's going to "get it" immediately, and though it hurts to say, I think she's going to go to a "victim" place very quickly if the soda bottle, powder keg and your feelings all blow in an emotional release tomorrow.
Please understand that I am in no way suggesting that you muzzle yourself. But perhaps look at how you plan to do your venting".
I've told my boys when an argument comes up between them, they can tell the other, "I'm so angry at you!!", or they can choose to hurl insults or body blows (as wrestly boys often do). Both options express anger, but the second choice creates additional new pain to the situation and really does nothing other than to continue the downward spiral until Mommy can step in.
I'm wondering if you've thought through how tomorrow looks: what are you hoping she'll do/say? Is that realistic?
What do you want your first words to her to be? (And here's the toughy - - ) Why?
This is the point where I have suggestions swirling through my head, but I want very much to honor your request from before. We're all kind of holding our collective breaths for you, Adam. We want the two of you (now that this committment/excuse) will be completed, to have the opportunity to see if your M can be healed. Be aware; this is a looooooooooong process. The rule of thumb yardstick is 2 years. You've been holding onto your emotions in a superhuman/inhuman way for too long, but if it all blows out tomorrow, there may be no other tomorrows to share those feelings. With much care, BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Thank you for resisting giving direct advice. My gut reaction is to ask you for your suggestions but I know that would be bad for me (This been analysed thus: If I ask other people for suggestions, and then follow them, I can in my mind avoid taking responsibility for any failure, which means that I don't have to try so hard, because I'm not "at risk" of failure. Which in the end just results in me avoiding issues.)
I do however appreciate your questions (my therapist continually asked questions and never provides answer for exactly that reason. Of course that is phenomenally frustrating and so he's lucky I didn't slap him )
I don't know what my first words will be, probably words of comfort about the exam to be honest. But the first words to bring the A up? Not sure. I'm hoping she brings it up. I probably need to think about this more. To be honest I am most likely to pull her towards me before I push her away - as in feel so fragile that I'd want her attention rather than want to get angry with her and push her away. I think the first thing I'll bring up is likely to be about her building a wall and not opening up, and that I'd like her to open up. If she does respond to that I imagine things will go relatively smoothly.
If on the other hand she refuses to open up I'll probably get pretty upset. But to be honest if I'm not allowed to get upset then the M isn't worth saving.
We have MC on Weds night though which should help.
I don't know how your W will respond to you after she finishes her tests tomorrow. She will probably be afraid of the conversation and the guilt/ shame she will need to deal with.
I know that after D-Day3, when OW called me and asked me to tell my H to not call her anymore, my H kept asking me what I was going to do and the only thing I could tell him is that for starters he was going to come home and tell me everything and that if he couldn't we were over. I had hours to decide on what Q's I had to have answered that night.He had hours to think it over and decide if he could open up and if he wanted our M to work. When he came home that night he sat down but couldn't just start telling me everything so I had to start by asking some Q's and then I had to shut up so that he could talk.
I guess what I am saying is don't be upset if your W can't sit down and tell you the whole story from start to end. You might think about what Q's you can ask to start the talking. Once she has started to talk then she might feel better and might volunteer information on her own.
Realistically I shouldn't have any trouble thinking of questions - you said you spent hours thinking up questions... ...imagine how many questions you'd have come up with in 6+ weeks! The lists as long as my arm - the problem really will be selecting a subset and leaving the others for another day.
For what its worth my TOP questions are
When did you first kiss?
When did you first "realise" you were having an A?
What was a night like when you slept with him (i.e. narrative - describe the evening)?
Including - did you call me to say you'd be staying at his before or after sleeping with him?
Actually I had 7 months of asking questions that were always answered with "I don't know." And a lot of those questions were answered by the OW in her non-stop ramble. She also had uncovered a lot of lies my H had been telling me for 7 months. But like you said I had a list as long as my arm, a few arms. And as you said I had to chose which ones I had to have answered that night to help me decide what I was going to do.
My H's honesty and openness was what told me to stay for a little longer because for the first time he was dealing with the truth. A lot of the info that he gave me that night hurt me really bad and opened a lot of new questions and put a lot of awful new images in my head. The worst being them sitting together talking about how bad they wanted to be together all the time and how my H was thinking of leaving us to be with her. My H just told me 2 nights ago that when ever he talked like that she usually discouraged it and always said that she wouldn't want him to leave his family because the damage it would do to his children. Makes me wonder if she really was in love with him or if it was with how good he made her feel. Either way my H was finally to be truthful.
I had to work late (until about 7:30pm) tonight because stuff needed doing for a trade tomorrow and so I was stuck in meetings and couldn't leave.
My W was not pleased that I was so late home. She had the F***ing cheek to say
WS: "What was it then?"
BS: "What do you mean"
WS: "Well I assume it must have been something really important that you couldn't come home early tonight when I really need you"
How I bit my tongue and didn't just should back at her "You should be greatful that I'm here at all not critical that I was late!!! And on top of that your work is more important than my feelings and my pain is caused by you, where as you need me because you haven't revised properly for your exams because you were lieing on your back with other men!!!!!"
Sorry if that's OTT, but I am soooooooo angry, and having to bite my tongue is REALLY REALLY REALLY hard.
I can see not saying things like this while you're angry, just to avoid letting emotions dictact how a conversation like that should go, but I see no reason not to express the sentiment and logic of your thoughts. For example, saying something that your feelings are also hurt by her setting of priorities. Make sure to limit comments so they focus on your feelings. Avoid comments that 'judge' her actions. The goal is to get her to judge herself by her actions.
They can't hear you when you are yelling or crying so do as you did, then find some way to turn those feelings into something she can hear.
It's been 3 months and my H still hasn't told me anything that I haven't asked him about in a question. Likely, things are worse than I think, for certain he doesn't want to tell me anything that will cause me more pain, he doesn't trust me not to use those things to hurt him back or remind him about what a scumbag he was. Full revelations don't come easily to the WS. She may need more time, you both may need it before she can face herself and her actions.
Sometimes, they can hear it...and its a good thing
July 23 2007, 6:10 PM
"They can't hear you when you are yelling or crying so do as you did, then find some way to turn those feelings into something she can hear."
I've heard this statement several times on this forum, and can only say from my experience that this was NOT true for my H. He definitely heard me....my pain and anguish and anger...which was fully displayed early on. He didn't run from it, he didn't zone out, he most often did not reply in kind (though there were sometimes when his own pain and anguish were shared with me). I think this ability to feel openly has been a huge part of why H and I have been able to heal with the progress we've had to date. We certainly aren't all the way healed, but considering we haven't reached a year yet, I'm creditting part of our reconciliation process with my H witnessing my pain. In the end, it probably has more to do with certain personalities being comfortable around other's bad feelings; I don't know for sure, but it sits funny when I hear that blanket statement that I quoted above used as a statement to cover all people/all situations. The whole "Need to Bleed" thread from Open is a differing perspective that's just as valid. Just wanted to put another side of the coin out there. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
This message has been edited by BlueIris22 on Jul 23, 2007 6:12 PM
"I've heard this statement several times on this forum, and can only say from my experience that this was NOT true for my H. He definitely heard me....my pain and anguish and anger...which was fully displayed early on. He didn't run from it, he didn't zone out, he most often did not reply in kind (though there were sometimes when his own pain and anguish were shared with me). I think this ability to feel openly has been a huge part of why H and I have been able to heal with the progress we've had to date."
Ok so I'm a believer in letting it all out. If that means that the OH is on the receiving end then so be it.
I treaded on "tip toes" in the early days because of his depression in case anything I said made him feel worse. My inability to get him to talk led to me to swing from depression to pure anger at him. In the end he did something selfish yet again and I let him have it (told him in no uncertain words what I thought of what he'd done, how he'd treated me etc etc}. It was the first time I never actually heard him say anything back about how I was upsetting him and making his depression worse.
Adam, I'm not saying that this is what you should do. What I'm saying is that I can fully understand you getting to the point of being incredibly angry.
So you had to work late because of meetings. Something that you had to do no doubt. Instead of welcoming you home after a hard day it was "me me me" with her. I saw this attitude so many times with the XH. Quite frankly Adam, she is still continuing to be selfish and manipulative and I truly hope that through counselling she will see this. I suspect that as I did, you have lived your life so far making her happy and tending to all her needs without much thought to your own. Its about time she took responsibility for her actions and started to support you as IT IS HER SELFISH ACTIONS which have brought this situation about.
Wish you all the best with this. Please be strong and do not leave this selfishness and manipulative behaviour rule your life any longer.
Me, too, Adam; just hoping you're o.k. My mind keeps racing around the 1000+ possibilities as to how today has played out for you. My wishes and hopes for the best. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
It didn't go at all how I expected it to go. It wasn't "prefect everything is sorted and going to be fine" but then no-one would have expected that. On the other hand I think it could have gone a lot worse.
W is still exhibiting a lot of self pity but does seem to understand that she needs to look after me as well. Rather than just go straight home and sit down and talk (which would probably have been a bit awkward) we went out for a drink and a chat and a flirt. I didn't force any issues to come up, but if anything entered my head I didn't supress it anymore so it wasn't long until issues were raised. She handled them fairly well on the whole and was quite understanding. Although on that term she said she knew she couldn't possibly understand what I was going through, she said she had tried to imagine if she was in my position and said she just couldn't handle it. Which I think is her starting to get a handle on what she's done. By the time we went to bed my emotions were uncovered, and for some reason (that even I don't know) I just started crying and didn't stop for at least half an hour, throughout which she comforted me.
One place where we are still stuck a little is she can't really answer questions about the A. I had wanted to know how they cuddled in bed and only got an answer by asking each position in turn until I got the right one. Also I really want to know when/how it started, specifically when they first kissed (i.e. the first time they physically broke her vows) and she just says she can't remember. She has said she will think about it and try remember exactly since its clearly important to me. It seems very strange to me though that that first moment isn't etched in her memory...
It was never going to be the miracle marriage fixing day, but at least I now feel that I can start to deal with my pain in front of her, and she didn't resist that.
Thank you for all your concern, I'll let you know how it goes from here...
Edit: Edited for spelling
This message has been edited by AdamMJG on Jul 25, 2007 3:19 AM
Well, in my book, I'd call this a success...or at least a good beginning. I'm glad the powder keg didn't blow, and am especially glad to hear that you didn't hold back thoughts, feelings, or things you wanted to ask: there's been enough of that for a lifetime.
As for your W not "remembering" specifics of the A. I'm hesitating how to phrase this. What was the timeframe of the A (how long ago and what duration)? There certainly were pieces of my own WS's A that he couldn't easily access because the darned thing had gone on so long (grrrrrrrrr). That said, there were a number - - I'm sure to him it felt infinite - - of specifics I wanted and needed to know. And I just kept asking and digging and asking and talking. For a lot of these things, there were finally answers. For many as well, I had to use found emails, letters, bank statements and the like to "jog his memory" (funny how that could happen when there was no escape from the evidence). Anyway, for us, we were quite a bit like two dogs scuffling over possession of a bone - the bone of truth over A information. I felt he guarded the bone, and that I had to circle, growl, whine, sniff out, drool, etc. Not a particularly pretty picture. In my case, dogged persistence was effective, though I suppose I'll never know everything (that makes me think of your post on open regarding WS's holding onto precious parts of the A).
Do you trust your W when she says she doesn't remember specifics?
(Going back to the questions since I don't trust myself to not dole out advice or take you somewhere you don't want to go emotionally)
When's your next MC appointment?
Do you have other requests for your W regarding what you need from her as an individual and within the relationship? Is she going to go to IC, too?
I'll leave it at that for now. I am so glad that you took first steps together, instead of duking things out. I'm hoping the baby steps lead to long strides for both of you...hand in hand. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
The A lasted for about 1M, and started a matter of days after her ONS (dd1 - 15 May) with a dif OM. One I find particularly important to pin down is exactly what happened when it started to become physical (there was no doubt a large emotional bond there before hand, that could have been or could not have been inappropriate - certainly dangerous though. However, it is easier to believe a WS might not "notice" an EA as breaking any vows, but as soon as there is a kiss or similar, then that is clear cut infidelity). DD2 was 11 June so its not that long ago (infact it scares me to think that on only the 11 May I had a faithful W), so she should be able to remember.
I don't really believe that she can't remember that one, but I would perhaps give her the benefit of the doubt that she has shut it out of her mind, or that she hasn't got a fully formed memory of it. One thing I do believe though, is that this wasn't like some A that I've read of (particularly male WS) where it was a whirlwind of passion and lust. Rather it seems to have been more of an emotional collapse on her part, and so I believe her when she says she felt like she was in a daze. She has told me that she never loved him but also at the time of the A she didn't feel love towards me either she says she didn't really feel anything (she also says she never felt guilty). I have yet to find out what sparked it, but something caused her feelings to start returning, and one of the first was guilt, at which point she ended it with him and told me all about it. I do accept that "reliving" the A may not be pleasant for her. On the other hand I don't WANT it to be pleasant for her - this would be a million times worse if she was comfortable with it and could just happily chat about what they did together.
I was cautious to believe the "she ended it" story, but the reaction of the OM seemed to verify this explanation. He sent her messaged saying it was really hard without her, and had facebook statuses like "****forbrains is wanting things he can't have" or "****forbrains is wishing things were different" (****forbrains isn't is real name).
Next MC is tonight. She is supposed to be having IC (and has been so since before the A) but its taking a long time to get sorted and she's put that off as well during the waiting period we've just been through. My IC starts tomorrow. (The psych profession is making a killing out of us... ...well out of our insurance company )
She knows I need affection, and seems to be making an effort there. Mostly though she needs to let me express myself. Her emotions are always near the surface whereas mine are expressed more subtly.
I too would term last night a success . I am impressed.
However, just so you know, it is unlikely she doesn't remember. It is par for the course for a WS to claim this on affair details. This is why it is helpful to give them time to answer. It is very hard for them to talk to the BS about the details, it hurts them greatly to see the details in the light of the BS's pain. But this is why it is so important for the WS to do so, it changes the way they view the affair.
I can also believe that of all the things to be asking her it is one of the most difficult ones for her to confront. I could imagine that she looks at it as being a key moment, in that if she had not kissed him, then nothing else would have happened. I can sort of believe that once you have kissed someone it is a relatively small step to sleep with them - in a way the damage is already done. Of course, the other thought is that for some reason this A didn't start with a kiss, but something altogether more intimate... which would also explain her reluctance to explain the situation.
"...this A didn't start with a kiss, but something altogether more intimate... which would also explain her reluctance to explain the situation."
From my perspective, Adam, you've hit the nail on the head here (in many ways, for all of us in our own situations). Finding out whatever your W's emptiness or neediness was that required her to look outside of your M was the lynchpin that took her to solve that problem with an A - -
IMO, the intimacy you reference is the intimacy of communication and sharing feelings. What was your W's reason for sharing herself with someone else? Why was she unable to do that with you? (And remember: the answer to this last one cannot be explained away by something "lacking" in the BS. The answer lies firmly and solidly within your W and in all WS's - - their family histories, their relationship histories, the way they learned or didnt learn to face problems, conflicts, fears, etc.)
It will be a while before she can find this answer herself, and then explain it to you, but you can definitely help her along the way and walk beside her emotionally if she's willing to probe for the answer.
Thanks for your post, and the wise words in it. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Current Topic - Progress, Suspense and Anticipation
Wish I had someone for me.
