H and I went through a range of emotions during our draining conversations over the past two days.
A phrase just came back to haunt me...my H saying "I love you...but I'm not IN love with you"
How personally do I take this phrase after everything that has happened? Because do I really feel IN LOVE with my H at this moment, after the lies and A??
Is my H making a huge statement to me...or is this a natural feeling after our M being put through hell?? How much weight do I put into that comment?
If I had $10 for every WS who has said those EXACT words to the BS, I could retire on Easy Street TODAY!!! Seriously, that is a classic line that WS tell THEMSELVES and BS because they know they are cheating and they are casting about for any justification for their bad behavior.
As WS come out of the fog, they realize that was they were in love with were the feelings of excitement, secrecy, etc. Being "in love" is a very transitory state which normally precedes feelings of love. The two are very different. "In love" is fantasy; love is reality.
I did have those feelings, FF, that that was a "classic" line... I like your comparison - how "in love" is fantasy, love is reality. I think my H sometimes has trouble distinguishing the two.
Strange day - just got off the phone with H who ended our conversation with "love you!!!!" I was quite taken aback. He hasn't openly said those words for awhile now - don't know what that means, my H is one strange and confused man so who knows.
Once I think I know where we are headed, he throws me for a loop. So, we shall see...I am definitely guarded!!
This message has been edited by Ka18 on Jul 22, 2007 11:33 AM
Again...it is a justification/rationalization to cheat. That is what infidelity is all about...fantasies, not reality. They have to find a way to do what they do and the "I love you BUT Im not in-love with you" line is just one of them. I know, it hurts like HELL nonetheless ((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
Add me to the list. I got that line, too. Since then, though, my H has told me that was one of the dumbest things he ever said. He recognized the fantasy/reality aspect of it.
Seems to me like you shouldn't take it to0 personally from what the other's said. He's still confused, but based on your recent conversations with him it seems like there is also some sun shining in and burning off the fog. Seems to me like these things are all just indicators. And, also from what they said that someday he'll get the distinction himself and be able to acknowledge that to you.
Ka - I can't believe you've held this together for as long as you have living in separate places. You have an amazing strength.
I don't know if I'm qualified to interpret those words, but this is how I understand them.
"I love you but..." means 'I want to remain married to you, or I don't want to reject you'
"I'm not IN love with you" means "I have feelings for someone else" or "I don't have feelings for you."
I see it a cliche' that is effective for avoiding responsibility. If the WS still loves the BS, then they don't feel as bad about themselves. They avoid the supreme rejection of "I don't love you" or "I love someone else." It also is based in the incorrect thinking (which is widespread in our society) that LOVE is something you feel. I use all CAPS "LOVE" to mean something different than "love". LOVE is somthing you do for others, while love is something you feel. What we call love is actually infatuation and lust. LOVE is for other people. Love is for yourself. LOVE looks out for the interests of other people, even at the cost of your own. Love looks out for yourself, even at the cost of others.
My wife didn't say this cliche', instead she said "I think I'm falling in love with someone else." Those words, once spoken became like a bell ringing in my mind and shaking me to my core over and over for a long time. Even now I can hear them resonate in me. She has since told me that they intended to make her look better than saying the truth "I've been involved in a sexual affair with xxxxx."
Well, my H has never come out and said that he had fallen in love with the OW -- hinted - phrases like I lost a connection with you and found it with someone else, etc etc Personally, i don't think i could deal with hearing him say it aloud to me... sigh...
Again, i don't know if this is where our relationship fails - the part where i don't want to know and couldn't deal with him telling me the truth about his feelings for another woman! Should I be able to hear that if we were to move forward or is not hearing him say it better for me?
My H revealed that the "fling" he had during our first yr of M made him feel incredibly guily and today in MC, he said that he was always holding his breath, waiting for me to bring up the conversation and ask him what had happened during our 1st year. He said that he was always waiting for me to hold him accountable!! Even in our happiest times, he still carried on the memory of that first year and always was scared when it would come out.
Should I be holding my H accountable now - asking about his feelings for the OW? If we were to move forward, would that HAVE to be done in order for both of us to have no secrets? I just don't want to hurt more than I already am
>Should I be able to hear that if we were to move forward or is not hearing him say it better for me?
I think you get to choose which questions you need to have answered, and which ones you feel are better left alone. Personallly, I needed to know about her feelings, but that was me.
I know your head is swirling with questions. Your M (and your H) doesn't make logical sense with the reality you knew and you want to sort the situation out so you can see clearly. That is a very scary thing when some of the answers may not jive with the reality you knew and loved. But for you to get the answers you want, your H is going to have to really do some digging of his own.
You're only about 7 weeks since your DDay. In that time, your H has done a lot of avoiding...of your home, your time,and I would venture to guess, himself. I'm so happy that you've recently had the opportunity together to talk and to share some feelings. Its a great start.
I know on my own DDay, I asked my H some of these harder questions...even the "did you love her?". He wouldn't answer that. At the time, I took his silence to mean that he did, but didn't want to hurt me further by saying it aloud. In the next few weeks, I talked with him about what an awful "friend" she was to have threatened his marriage, me and our kids by encouraging him to have the A and reeling him back in whenever guilt started to creep over him. He became very defensive of her and their friendship. After more time had passed (and H and I were both in Mc and IC), more anger started showing from H toward OW. He even got to a point where he had very clear daydreams of strangling her. Currently, he chooses to not think of her. I don't know that I particularly trust that, or understand it, but it is certainly better than other options.
I guess what I'm sort of lamely saying is that a WS has their own process that they (hopefully) go through. It requires brutal honesty with themselves, time, perspective and looking past the A, and deeper into what made them need something outside the M. For us, my H has had A LOT to look at from his childhood.
From the beginning, I definitely needed to ask questions constantly (and still sort of do). What I didn't understand was my H was on his own search for clarity and needed to find some self awareness to really be able to answer my questions. So at different points after DDay, I got different answers. The more self awareness he had, the more honest answers I got, but it took time. Getting different answers at different times was triggery, because it felt like again there was no solid ground...no unshakeable truth. In fact, truth was dependent on H finding the truth first...and that's a process.
If you decide to ask your H some harder questions, (and if he's honest) be aware that the answer(s) you get will be the truth as he sees it at that moment. It is hugely frustrating, but remember the bulk (if not all) of an A is based on fantasy.
Sorry for the ramble, but I hope this helps a little. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
I have to admit, not having my H here to talk and confront issues has been incredibly hard. He makes himself available for MC and to talk when I ask him, but I think it would be a different story if he was here.
Because on top of the A, now I'm dealing with living alone, trying to figure out what parts of my M were real and what were not. I hate that the day I found out about the A, he took off and ran to his parents and have been there ever since. Coward.
If he were actually here, I think I would start asking more questions, start figuring out what I needed to know and what I didn't. Being face to face would certainly bring out different feelings and emotions...still confused why is parents wouldn't tell their 30 yr old son to go back home to his WIFE!! Sigh.
((((Ka)))) Do you two have another time scheduled for getting together and talking? (How ridiculous is it that he has let things get to the point where talking has to be "scheduled"?)
Are you in IC, or do you have the ability to start that up? I'm really concerned about your need to sort things through and heal yourself, whether he chooses to be involved with that process or not.
Are you on good terms with his folks? If so, what would happen if you showed up there to talk with him?
Sure wish he'd decide whether to poop or get off the pot! Is he interested in saving this marriage? Jeez: is he interested in saving himself? If he doesn't work this out with you and with this marriage, he's going to wind up in the same situation again down the line. He can run away from you and all his recent mistakes, but he can't run away from himself. Time to grow up, Mr. Ka!!
Sorry, Ka; the pain in your last post makes me so angry at him. My thoughts are with you. BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
I'm with you there about my H, BlueIris - GROW UP! AHHH!
I am in IC and it has been good for me. I am trying to figure out myself in all of this but its overshadowed by the feeling of betrayal and being abandoned. How ironic that my H could come home and face me every day that he was HAVING the A but can't come home now that I have found out about it. Doesn't say much about his character, does it?
Sigh, sigh, sigh....on top of all this, our 6th wedding anniversary is this weekend!
Again - mixed messages, my H said he had to get things done this week so he could MAKE SURE to have this weekend free for our anniversary. ???
Hello brave Ka. I just wanted to explain why he does not feel he can face you - My view is that we live with images of oureselves in our minds and when they get broken ie like in an A, then we are ashamed to face the world - And it is more about how we feel about ourselves than the shame of facing others. Your H is suffering from the loss of who he thought he was. His parents are also probably suffering from that too. This is where you are the one who can offer forgiveness when you are ready to do so. The trouble with forgiveness I have found though is that it means really facing the reality and this is tough to do - And when I get down to doing that forgiveness I find I have to accept that I am a weak human being too who could also perhaps have been in WS's position in different circumstances. This is something I have noticed seems to come with the forgiveness - Almost as if the understanding/ acceptance becomes my personal problem and I am in some crazy, topsy turvey way going through a forgiveness of myself too. I hope this does not sound to difficult to understand - It is where I am at.. But I have taken two years to get here.
May you be safe and well and become contented and happy before too long
