My H and I had MC planned before D-day...it just worked out that our first session was scheduled two days after i found out about the A. So, our MC met us at our worst.

We have been going once a week since D-day -- when we focus on us, our past, our families, I feel a lot comes from our sessions. My H and I talk and talk and I feel a great sense of communication and honesty that was lacking in our M.

But when we go into MC emotional or stressed, or do not lead our conversations, our MC always presses and presses about "where we are going", are we "in or out" -- i have been able to say that I am committed to our M, my H on the otherhand, always is the one confused and not ready to say that is he there to work on the M. He is still in that "foggy" (though the fog has lifted a lot since d-day) state.

Our MC seems obsessed to get a solid yes or no from the two of us. And sometimes that really bothers me. I know my H is confused and still in that fog...I would think that the MC would be helping us to cope with that and be helping us just to talk. I did tell her that we would rather talk than go back and forth about "one foot in, two steps out"

She acknowledged it -- but last MC session, i was having an awful day and just wasn't in the talking mood. And again, she got right back onto the topic of where we each stood - asking my H questions like "if you could leave today, would you?" Pressure pressure pressure...

Did everyone experience this in MC? Is this the first step to getting closer to a path? Figuring out where we each stand? Or is the MC doing us a diservice by pressing the issue EVERY time we go? Something about it doesn't sit right with me...but I also may be avoiding the harsh truth?

Ok...well we DID go to MC and IC, but it was during my H's A secretly continuing....having made that disclaimer...

To the question, am I in or out soon after DD? I would have answered a resounding "MAYBE!" To say I was in a state of ambiguity would be putting it lightly!


Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

MC's are interesting folk, that's for sure. And like the rest of us, they come in a whole Baskin Robbins 31 flavors of capabilities, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

Our MC has not done the pushing thing you've described. I think I'd feel more comfortable with her asking where the two of you are if she would ask it as "where are you TODAY?". It would show a sensitivity for the rollercoaster ride, the changing emotions, the imbalance that is part of dealing with A aftermath.

There certainly is no reason you can't ask her back directly why she does that. Or let her know that you feel pressure from her and there's already enough pressure in the cooker, thank you very much.

In the end, you both need to feel comfortable with your MC...even if the sessions themselves are uncomfortable. Does that make sense? An MC won't necessarily make the process easier, but who that person is needs to gel with you on some level.

All that said, I know there were a lot of parts of my MC that I was unhappy about in the beginning, because it was the first time I'd done any kind of therapy and I had a lot of expectations. It would have been better to have a clearer understanding of the MC process in general, and specifics as to how our MC tends to handle things. In retrospect, it would have been wise to spend the time (and sadly the money) having some preliminary talks with her like an orientation to her "class" or sessions. But we were in so much crisis, we needed to dive headfirst towards therapy. Ultimately, I am very, very happy we stayed with our MC. Have you talked with your H about MC and if he's comfortable with her and how she's directing therapy?

Sigh. It would be a major drag to quit with her and restart with someone else, and bring them up to speed. On the other hand, who wants to waste their time with someone who's impeding the therapy process instead of facilitating it. I'm so sorry for the extra wrench that's been thrown your way with this.

I'm really proud of you, Ka, for all you're handling and how you're handling it. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Right! Well, that's the thing, JJ, who can really say whether they are in or out so soon after this mess?!? For the first time, we are talking about deep, hidden issues, our past, the past few months...all new territory for us. It does frustrate me that our MC would want such a solid yes or no.

Thanks for your words of care, BlueIris. There are times when I feel like there is at least one positive thing that comes from MC and my H and I reflect on it and say "wow, we never realized that, or never thought about it that way..." But those are the times when WE lead the conversation.

The MC asked the week before if we felt the pressure of choosing a path -- and i did speak up and say that i felt a lot of pressure from HER...she acknowledged it and did say she would back off - that is why i was confused about this week's session - when my H and I do not lead the conversation, its almost like the MC doesn't know what else to say except the "path" conversation - she also let us sit in uncomfortable silence a few times. Sigh - i dunno.

I told my H that I wanted a break from MC this next week. I was really uncomfortable the last time. Thats not saying that we shouldn't go back. I just feel enough stress. I don't want to feel more of it there.

Edited to add: The MC also says to us EVERY session - you know, its not up to me to decide whether or not you two will stay together, you're paying me and i will sit here and work through this forver, - to help you strengthen your M or help you to break up. Should MC be there to help you break up?!?

<<The MC also says to us EVERY session - you know, its not up to me to decide whether or not you two will stay together, you're paying me and i will sit here and work through this forver, - to help you strengthen your M or help you to break up. Should MC be there to help you break up?!?>>

In a word..yes! When a couple decides (not the MC) that it is indeed over, the MC can help the two of you make a smoother transition. Not all marriages can or should be saved, unfortunately. So yes, the MC can help you with your fears, your anxiety, and in understanding how your marriage ended up where it did, and how to cope with it and move on. But only the two of you can decide if it is over.

I think what your MC is looking for is a commitment on your H's part, and she isnt seeing that. Seeing if the two of you are commited or not gives her direction for the session. Like Blue Iris, my IC asks me how I am feeling today about my marriage...am I commited today? And we go from there...


~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

I agree with Blue - sounds like MC is trying to understand how to orient the sessions but if it is making you feel frustrated or uncomfortable, you should talk about it.

I found MC and IC to be really helpful but again, like Blue, had no experience before and nothing to measure it against. (Sorry - not completely true - went to an idiot MC when H was actively having A and lying about it. And, now that I think about it, that one did ask why we were there - I said, "to work on our M" and H said, "to see if we should be married" - should have had a clue then but I was so deep in denial H and OW could have been having sex in front of me and I would have found an excuse for him.)

Anyway, I find all therapy a bit strange, awkward and meandering.It is uncomfortable for me to pay someone to listen to me talking about myself for an hour and I felt like I wanted a strategy,curriculum and an agenda for each meeting....this week we will discuss "details," next week, "our childhoods", then "the reasons why," and on and on. And, then I wanted a summary and agreement to next steps. I have learned that it doesn't work like that. Not sure exactly how it works but it does....there is lots of repetition and going over the same things, each time slightly differently or with more depth.

I wish my IC asked more questions. She is a psychiatrist and seems to operate a bit differently. Not nearly as inter-active and friendly as MC, who is psychologist. And she sits there a lot, looking at me. Then, other times, she is very verbal and extremely insightful.Now, I feel comfortable enough to tell her when I am frustrated with the process. In fact, this morning, I told her that our conversations were superficial and not helping me - and that I needed her to help me probe the dungeons of my mind because I am clearly afraid to go there by myself. Be careful what you wish for - because, 12 hours later, I am still unsettled by this morning's conversation.

Bottom line, I have learned that there is a fine line in therapy between doing what the doctor orders and being an advocate for yourself. Don't be afraid to speak up, as I was.
(I have real authority issues - father was a doctor so they seem to get to me the most!)
I actually think that by speaking up you are helping the therapist get to know you better and then they can help more effectively. So, maybe you could ask MC why she is so interested in that question and tell her how it makes you feel when she repeats it all the time.

Another thing IC told me - it is very dangerous to discuss a fragment of a therapeutic conversation out of context. First, people don't usually remember everything as it was said and anything could be part of a larger therapeutic plan. And, patients often hear things differently than they were intended - hence, the need for a lot of repetition. This came up for me a lot when I told my IC how angry I was about some of the things my H's IC told him. She helped me understand that there could have been a lot of reasons for IC saying what he did. BUT, I don't listen to that advice myself and still share a lot of fragments with H...guess it is more important to talk about what you are learning, though.

OK. I'm doing my typical Friday night exhausted ramble.

I do agree that the MC is trying to get us to commit to a path so that she can lead us down it. Again, I would be willing to work on the M, my H has said in the past(especially when we first started going shortly after d-day) that he was already "two feet out" although I do feel that his actions and our conversations since don't truly reflect that.

So -- until you commit to that path, is MC worth it? Are we going to continue to beat the dead horse in that office? H is confused. H is scared. H doesn't know.

Another reason why i get uncomfortable going - H seems to "react" to her abruptness and will sometimes respond by saying that he is out of the M. And then afterwards, he will come home and we'll talk, and he'll do things that demonstrate that he's not fully gone. He will even take back his words and tell me that its not what he meant, or she caught him off guard, etc, etc..

Can't decide if H just reacts from this pressure the MC pushes and then reflects and handles things differently afterwards...or if he says his true feelings and then just can't face me afterwards and sugar coats things.

Its hard to know - i do feel that H is almost fighting this - trying to convince himself that we could NEVER be happy again, that way he doesn't have to deal with everything that would come from fixing our M.

I do know this is a process. How I wish my H was at my doorstep begging me to take him back... or at least committed to "trying" by actually saying "Yes, i am willing to try" but it's not like that. So, this process continues... not sure that any more pressure from MC is needed right now.

<<So -- until you commit to that path, is MC worth it? Are we going to continue to beat the dead horse in that office? H is confused. H is scared. H doesn't know.>>

Of course you do not have to make any type of commitment or decision if you or your H are not ready, but MC can help you both find the path you wish to take. They cannot tell you which path to follow though...that is up to you. And it is a process if either one of you, or both are confused or scared. That doesnt mean it is a waste of time. But it is one reason why I am a big advocate of IC. I think in some cases each person needs to work on their personal issues before they are ready to tackle the marriage. And since your H is so confused it may be in his best interest to work in IC for a awhile. IC and MC can be done at the same time as well though.

Dont be discouraged...it all takes time. But no wonder you are so mixed up...he says one thing then retracts it! That would make my head spin too.
On top of all you are going through it must be very stressful, which is why you need to take care of you! (((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))


~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

We went twice and then decided it or she wasn't right for us. She was my IC and I asked if he could come so she could meet him. It's weird. Anyways, both times she asked "How would you feel if he died tomorrow?" And both times I said relieved because I wouldn't have to worry about deciding if I should stay or go anymore. Even though I've decided to stay, its more like I've decided to stay for now and reserve the right to change my mind if the data changes - like he's still doing it or he starts it up again.

My own counselor and she fell for his wiles. I ended up with all the homework and he was a "good guy". What? Well, she said what I wanted to hear but heck I wanted him to do some stinkin' thinkin' and work! I think we just needed a different MC.

Our MC is the opposite- she has actually made some rude comments to my H which really took me aback...I asked my H is she made him uncomfortable and after awhile he said no, that she was probably being direct for a good reason.

Even as the BS though, i didn't feel quite comfortable with it, only because my H doesn't talk as it is, I didn't want her comments to limit him.

She has said things to me like..."come on, lets face it, you don't exactly have a winner here!"

She asked if i had support, people to talk to...then turned to my H and asked him the same questions and said "not that you talk anyhow."

In a way it makes me laugh inside, that someone else is seeing what an a** my H is being -- but i also fear that that is the reason why my H gets very reactive with her. Like he feels very challenged. Sigh... i don't know. I have to really think about whether or not she is good for us.

My H and I are both in IC and both really like the people we go to so that is a plus. As soon as the A started (though i didn't know about it) my H came to me and asked me to find him an IC... so, i guess i can take some good out of this to know that my H knew he was screwed up when this all began!

Last time we went our MC got into his history....again and then asked me questions that ended up with me crying and yelling and saying things that made him feel bad - although he handled it like a champ. But, I told her that we were coming to discuss some strategies that might help us recover faster. Something where we were working on this process together. Part way through I reiterated this is what we came for and she had nothing to give us. That's when I thought maybe she was the wrong person for the job.

So my thought was that if we approach this MC again that we'll set some objectives and find someone that will help us with those objectives. I think that I went into it thinking the therapist knows the objectives but I'm realizing from reading some of the posts that they are different. One is to get the H on board, yours is to get the H to talk (?), mine is to have some direction on recovery, others are to explore the impact of their history, some are to find better ways to communicate. I'd like to find a MC that is good at what I need them to do.

<<In a way it makes me laugh inside, that someone else is seeing what an a** my H is being -- but i also fear that that is the reason why my H gets very reactive with her. Like he feels very challenged. Sigh... i don't know. I have to really think about whether or not she is good for us.>>

One...it is good that your MC is not snowed by your H and your H should be reactive instead on complacent. Our first MC was so snowed and he really liked my H. They talked about motorcycles and other stuff that seemed to have nothing to do with MC. I thought the MC was just trying to make my WH comfortable enough to open up. Unfortunately all that did was make my WH feel this man was a nonthreat and unchallenging, and in doing so my WH didnt feel he had to do any of the work, so he didnt. So two, it is good that your H feels challenged. If he doesnt then he has nothing to work on and nothing will change!

I get the impression that you think the MC should be less direct and less challenging. I know you are scared but how does the MC make YOU feel? Why are you so worried about your H and his reactivity? He is a grown man and can take care of himself and he will either do the work and look deep inside of himself or he wont. Are you scared that the MC is going to scare your H off from commiting to the M? He is already scared and not commited. His choice already, and nothing to do with the MC. But if you are at all unhappy with the MC and feel she is not right for the two of you then look for another. But in all honesty, I think an MC who challenges the couple is better than one who pacifies them. When someone is pacified they feel justified in their behavior and remain in denial. Is it scary to look so deep and be challenged? HELL YES! But think about what would happen if it wasnt. Would anything change? Probably not. It is hard to look in those scary places but it must be done if things are to change and get better. No one ever said it was easy, but it is worth it in the end, whether you stay together or not.


~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

I'm heartbroken. Thats all there is to it. My H, my best friend in this entire world, betrayed me in the worst way, lied to me, made me believe that our future was important -- writing me cards right before the A about the next steps into the future together, how much he loved me...

and then i find out about this A. Then i sit in MC with him and hear him say that he has already let me go and is out the door.

And i can't believe it. I still won't believe it. I am so crushed, so fragile, so hurt - MC makes me hurt more. I KNOW i need to hear stuff for things to change, i KNOW it - but its so hard...sometimes i just can't bear it.

So, you're right Cal. I don't want the MC to be too direct because i am afraid there will be nothing left of me when we're done I used to feel so strong...now i feel so weak. I don't know how much more hurt i can take.

I just want to be me again

I do want to figure out this M - i am just having such an awful time with how much this hurts.

((((((((((((((((Ka)))))))))))))...it does hurt, I know. Unfortunately the only way to deal with the pain is to feel it and work through it, not burry it. And I am sorry you are hurting so badly right now. It does get better as you grow stronger and of course in time.

Please, the best thing you can do for you is to take care of you...

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha