I'm still finding my way around this board, although I have been reading here on and off for a couple of months. Until yesterday, I was hoping I would not need you guys, but as I have not told anyone about H's A, this is the only place I can reach out.
The good news; I'm not crazy. I have been suspicious for months, asking questions which were answered with lies, lies and more lies. I have been snooping around like a private detective and H has made me feel like I am seriously losing my mind. He had a quick answer (lie) for every one of my suspicions.
The bad news; yesterday I got my proof and I am devastated, mostly because I asked H straight out and he looked me right in the eye and lied, then lied more and more and made me feel like I was nuts
My story is similar to most of yours, although I did become involved with H knowing he had cheated on his first W. So obviously I should have known better. He was very honest about his affair and blamed it mostly on their bad marriage. I thought our marriage was pretty good and our sex life has always been good too, so I don't get this at all.
This is my 2nd marriage. I have 4 daughters from my first marriage, 2 still in high school and 2 in college. They ADORE my H, and I have no idea how on earth this is going to play out, but I'm not ready to tell them anything.
Here is why I am going to need support and this is something I don't believe I have seen addressed on this board since I have been reading:
H told me, out of the blue, a few weeks ago he was going to take a surfing vacation to another country with some of his buddies. He was quite vague (duh) and I immediately asked "are you going with ___)the woman I have suspected as being the OW. Of course my comment was greeted with raised eyebrows and a detailed explanation of all of the imaginary "buddies" he was going with, right down to the car they were driving. (I asked him if he needed a ride to the airport).
I asked question after question after question and he created this entire fairytale (not sure about the happy ending though).
H left yesterday afternoon. Last night I called OW’s work voice mail and her message stated she would be on vacation, out of the country, until August 16…H returns from his trip on 8/15. VIOLA!! My proof.
So now I have 2 weeks to figure out what to do. At some point he will check in with me and I can’t decide if I should say something when he calls, wait until he gets home, greet them at the airport???
That is the condensed version of my story. I go from feeling relief that I am not crazy, to feeling sick to my stomach.
Thank you for allowing me to vent and I apologize if I used incorrect abbreviations and if I seem incoherent it is because I AM.
I am so sorry you too have found your way to this board, but I can tell you, you will find encouragement from all who reply.
Right now, you are hurting so badly, I'm sure you can't eat or sleep, let alone think straight. I also don't think that in a mere two weeks, you will have many of the answers you seek.
For the moment, I suggest taking care of you. Not him, not your marriage, just YOU. YOU did nothing to warrant these lies and his poor choices...so take care of YOU. Then YOU can make more sensible decisions and approach the situation with some calm.
I'm so sorry Karen. I know well the pain you are enduring today.
There is a part of me that wishes he were here so I could scream and yell. And another part that is glad he isn't so when and if I start thinking rationally, I can come up with a plan.
This just galls me that I was made to feel like a paranoid fool.
I wanted so bad to be wrong.
I think it is interesting that "BS" stands for Betrayed Spouse because all I can think is, BS is right, my marriage is nothing but BS.
The strange thing is, despite all of this, I know he cares about me. Maybe I AM nuts.
Hi Karen - I'm sorry you have to be here under such hurtful circumstances. I am relatively new here as well - 7 weeks after d-day -- i don't have much advice to offer, usually I am here to get the advice!! But, i wanted to let you know that i have found such comfort and strength by the group of people involved here - its been so good for me! I hope you find comfort here as well...
I do have to say -- i look back and wish that i had had more time to reflect when i found out about my H's A. Maybe your H being away is a good thing for the moment. I acted like a raging lunatic (not that you can blame me) but i do wish i had had more time to process before all hell broke loose! I hope you find some peace during this hard time... KA
I'm not sure how to advise you. I'm not to keen on advice anyway. However, I don't mind giving you a few suggestions, and examples things other people of done.
One thought I had is you might want to contact either a counselor, a laywer, or both. They can help you figure out how to deal with this opportunity. This is an opportunity, because the more "undeniable" the situation you catch him in, the more likely he will be shocked out of his behavior and you will be able to start working on recovery. However, it sounds like he's pretty brazen at this moment, so how that will play out for you is hard to predict. That's why a lawyer could help you protect your legal rights to a maximum.
Another thought that I had was that you could try to find out where he is using credit card records. Most credit card companies will post charges immediately, so if he's paying for things with a card, you can determine what country, city, even the hotel that he is at right now. I wouldn't trust the information he's given you. If you have a hotel name, you could talk to the desk clerk and possible gain some additional information. For example, you might be able to determine how many people are staying in the room with him. However, even if it shows that he is only paying for himself, that doesn't mean he is there alone.
However, all this detective work is for you, to satisfy you that you have enough information to act.
I don't believe your husband is having an affair because your marriage is not good enough. I think he's having an affair because his personal boundaries allow him to, and he has the opportunity. The opportunity consists of a willing partner and the resources to pursue it (both free time and money). He will probably end it when he believes the opportunity has evaporated. Depending on his values, he might end the affair if faced with the loss of his marriage, since you'd effectively be telling him that his "free" time is gone. Overall, it seems like a decisive action right now (especially if you strongly believe you're right about things) would have a strong influence on how much longer the affair continues.
Welcome to our site, and I hope this situation is resolved. I hope that even this strong evidence that you have can be explained truthfully in some other way.
Oh Gosh, I'm reliving mine all over again reading your story. I'm so sorry you are where you are. I can only tell you my experience but you'll have to decide what is best for you.
My H was going to "class" for work. I hated being sneaky and checking up on him, it was killing me. Worse was not finding him where he was supposed to be. Then still wanting to believe all of his little stories and lies, lies, lies.
He left on Thursday and by Friday I knew he wasn't in the hotel in the city he "vaguely" suggested he might be in. He called and my friend asked him what exact hotel he was in, confirmed he was not there. There was no class by his description in around the city he was supposed to be in. I called his work they didn't know how to get ahold of him.
I was in the same predicament you are but with a shorter time frame. On Saturday, I woke up and was decided to call him and tell him if he wasn't home in 3 hours not to expect me to be in the house when he got home. When I discussed this with my Mom we decided if he's doing it, let him do it for 2 more days. Use the two days to plan, strategize, and get my head on straight so I was angry or crying when I confronted him.
That's exactly what I did. I got him to confess. I didn't cry. I was absolutely calm and controlled as I forced him into confession (4 hours, it took). It saved my marriage, for the moment I am still with him - I think if I had called on Saturday I might have been the raving lunatic that Ka mentioned herself to be (you go girl!). Even my controlled pushing for a confession brought him to the point of saying "If you don't believe me then just go." But, I was cool, calm, and controlled. No emotion, crying, or anger so I got what I needed - a confession, truth, reality. Confirmation and not left to wondering if maybe I was wrong. With emotion, could you imagine - someone would have walked out or got kicked out the door. But, I had a plan and was able to stick with it and I got what I needed. Think about - What do you need? Then what is the best way to get what you need?
I was also so relieved that I wasn't the psycho, untrusting, insecure, sneaky, suspicious wife that I thought I was becoming in the face of his assertions that my suspicions were not valid.
Now I look back on it and think that there are two more days of illicit behavior for him to live with and for me to live with that I could have stopped. I could have been stronger and more powerful and put him in his gosh darned place by demanding his return. I could have rocked his dang fantasy world so hard that maybe reality would have hit him harder and fiercer and he would have dropped the fantasy faster if I'd just been braver and more aggressive in getting him to stop.
I think that if you are seeking recovery and he really does care and its recoverable that it doesn't matter what you do. But, what you do may effect how long the recovery takes. I can't imagine that him taking a 2 week vacation in his fantasy land is going to help with the recovery, it seems like it'll just reinforce the fantasy more and more.
To your specific question:
Say something when he calls: What I did was torment him made him wonder if I really knew something or not. "You seem pretty energetic for being in your 16th hour of class". I think it pretty much put a damper on his "fantasy" to know that reality was creeping in. Still he thought he could lie his way out of it so he was living in hope that he wouldn't be discovered and denial that the fantasy was coming to an end.
I waited until he came home. But, it was 4 days not two weeks. Maybe its wait until you know what you want, you've decided your boundaries, and you can approach it with calm and control. It might take two weeks! But, you can only wait two weeks if you are eating or you might starve to death before he gets home! We wouldn't want that.
Go to the airport: God it would feel good, and strong, and you so deserve to kick his buns publically. But is that what you want and need the most. Unlikely, you'll stay calm and controlled. Do you really want to face the OW and get into a fighting match with her publically? I think it would be pretty ugly. Talking in private in your own home you'll have many more outs, comfort zones, and options. Unless you're absolutely decided that what you want is to leave him and you want major drama on your way out and you want to risk public humiliation yourself, I'd stay away from the airport.
Other option: When you're ready, if it's before 2 weeks, call him and tell him you know what he's doing and he needs to come home. If he says you are wrong, let him know that even if you are wrong this is really important to you and to the marriage and he needs to come home to you immediately. And, then give him the flight information and let him know you'll be at the airport waiting for him. (That's my evilness working to make him fly without her, make his and her life a little more difficult, so that's optional...you don't have to go to the airport.)
I just read Tom J's reply - talk to a lawyer, think of your financial needs and security too, not just emotional.
And to force the confession I requested specific hard evidence he had to provide me for "reassurance". Hotel receipts and a Confirmation for the Class. He could provide neither, of course.
You might ask him to get the hotel number and room that all of his buddies are staying in so that you can call the front desk, be connected, and talk to them. And, he can not call them first, he has to do it while you are sitting there.
Pull up his credit card bills while he's sitting there and show you where he's been. Victoria's Secret? Well where is his gift for you?
But it has got to be hard evidence that is soooo specific there is no denying it. Confession is incredibly difficult for the WS and my H would have lied his way to the end of the world to avoid admitting what he did because he knew as he approached confession that he was a total scumbag (his words).
I just have to say sorry for joining us in our cyber world. However, you will find understanding from the people here. I know you will have a hard time knowing that he is away and most likely with her. I really don't know what I would do in a situation like that. I think if my H called from his trip, I would tell him that I was planning on meeting him and have already booked a ticket. Then I would see how he would react. I'm not sure what it would accomplish other then a confession to his bad doing. One thing I do remember is feeling that "going crazy" thing. I was relieved when I found out, but as everyone here, I was very disappointed, hurt, and angry.
I so appreciate all of your validation, particularly with regard to my feeling like I was losing my mind with all of my sneaky private detective investigating.
Also, a couple of you mentioned acting like a raging lunatic. That is how I felt yesterday immediately after I listened to OW's VM. I slept awful last night and I can't eat, but I do think I have calmed down somewhat. Or maybe I'm just numb.
Two weeks feels like an eternity, but time is a gift to me in this situation. It will give me the space I need to get my thoughts in order so I don't explode. Not that exploding is such a bad thing, I am plenty angry, but I can only cry so much and I hope by the time he gets back, or when I speak to him on the phone, I will be calm.
I'm torn whether to say anything when he calls because that will just give him more time to make up lies, you know "oops, bad connection, gotta go"...and add another chapter to his fairytale. And I have far too much pride to show up at the airport. With my luck, they took separate planes and I would be standing there acting like an idiot.
We get all of our credit card bills online, with the exception of his work VISA card, which I have no way to access. The cell phone bills have confirmed frequent calls to OW's work and cell as well.
Also, the OW is the same woman he was seeing when his first marriage ended. I am not certain if she is still seeing her boyfriend or not. During one of my investigative meltdowns I mentioned her and he said "she is living with her boyfriend, that is long over" blah, blah, lie, lie, lie. Today I did a bit more snooping and it appears they are no longer together.
I hadn't seriously considered seeing an attorney though. WOW.
Welcome and so sorry you are here. It must be really awful to know in real-time what is going on and have to live with that for weeks. I don't have advice, just a lot of admiration for how well you seem to be doing - just realizing that you need time to get rational was a lot more than I could have done. (I found lovenote at 3 in the morning and went raging into the bedroom, woke him up and screamed at him - all kinds of horrible, disgusting things that are completely out of character for me.)
I wish I had been a bit saner and given myself a little time to pull myself together but in the early days after discovering A, the world turns upside down and insanity becomes a way of life.
Please keep coming here to talk, to vent, to say whatever you need to. We all know what it is like and can feel what words can't describe.
I forgot...but that was exactly why I didn't say anything specific on the phone or ask him home. I didn't want him to use the 3 hour drive home (which was actually 2 hours since he wasn't where he said he was) to think of stories and excuses. Like when I heard the seagull in the background, I didn't ask why there was a seagull at his hotel in the middle of the big city. I thought of the evidence approach in the two day wait and figured out the evidence that would force him to confession. But, I couldn't help myself to make some comments, like why do you keep answering your cell phone in the middle of your class?
Seems like you are heading in a good direction. So so sorry you have to deal with this.
Married to the "Master of Lies" as I was at the time of dday, simply having dates if His/Her vacations that matched up would not have held water in our situation. Deny, Deny, Deny was the name of his game.
I fear you may have to have additional proof from spouses of other "surf buddies"....
or...., if money is not an issue, buy a one-way ticket (something affordable) to depart on the same day of his arrival. Anything that can get you through the security gates on the concourse to be at the arrival gate of his plane in case he does get off the plane with OW - never suspecting you might be at the gate instead of further down at the security check point.
OR, now that you "know" you can up the odds when he gets back by hiring at PI, tapping the phone, buying a GPS unit to attach to his car, watching his VISA bills and following up on his stories by casing the office parking lot or following him to the "Home Depot"
I admire you for having your wits about you now, but I do know that in our case, having a VM from OW's phone would have only made him laugh in my face.
Think about your other options and hide your cards if this may be the case for you. Once they are "outed" they get sneakier. My advice is to be very careful until you have rock solid proof.
-Susan
This message has been edited by stillkickin on Aug 4, 2007 9:18 PM
He hasn't called yet and he may not call. Most of the surf trips are in remote places with limited facilities. But for all know, he is in Palm Springs!! Either way, his cell phone is turned off and he hasn't made any calls out (I can look online).
My moods have swung all over the place. I spent most of this weekend at my daughter's in another town, shopping and staying busy. Today I am back home feeling awful.
So if he does happen to call, it will all depend on my mood. I am still inclined NOT to say anything until he comes home. If I say anything it will give him too much time to create another fairytale.
Hope, you mentioned hearing a seagull in the background when your H was supposed to be in a hotel in a big city. I have had similar experiences with H. Like he will say he is stuck at work in his office, but when he calls on his cell it sounds like he is in a moving car, or I hear people talking outside.
I am usually a very active busy person, but I'm so depressed I don't feel like doing anything and everyone is getting on my nerves. I have a feeling this week is going to really drag.
All I want to do is climb into bed, pull the covers over my head and cry.
I know the feeling of wanting to pull the covers over your head. I wanted to crawl under a rock and die. Try to hang in there. I know it's hard, but really, what other thing can you do until you are ready to "nail" him? And even after you nail him, you may still feel like pulling the covers over your head. However, just remember that you still have charge of your life and what to do once it all comes out.
But, you can only wait two weeks if you are eating or you might starve to death before he gets home! We wouldn't want that.