So, I picked up WS at the bus terminal a ocuple of nights ago. I was so meseed up, though, because I didn't know if I wanted to show how happy I was to see him After all, he had just had 2 weeks to spend travelling around Europe with OW (as I was able to confirm yesterday. But, I was not silent on the issue and pointed out how P.O.'d I am that I am someone who can't take 2 weeks off and have fun because I am an adult, not some child being supported by the state while I go to school). He said nothing.
I also told him that, as excited as I am to hear about all he did and to see his pictures (I love travelling and have never been to Paris - now I never will be as he and the Bi*^h went together, just like Niagara Falls, Montreal (even though he wouldn't visit when my cousin was there, just an hour away) or any part of Southern Ontario that he never wanted to visit with me!), all I keep thinking about is how he got have 2 weeks with his g/f doing all the things I would gladly have done.
BTW, this conversation all happenned in a restaurant. He invited me out for dinner yesterday (meaning we have been home and awake together for only a couple of hours. I half suspected he didn't want time alone to talk but acted as if it was sweet that he wanted to take me out for dinner upon his return.) and we got onto this topic in public.
He also mentioned that I would be crazy to give up my job here if things went bad (I started the topic by taling about my job) and I could just keep leaving here. It took all my effort not to yell at him, so I just casually said that the only reason I am in this town is because of him - why would I stay here when I have family and professional credentials (with which my life matters) in another province. As well, I could land a job within 24 hours arriving, they are so hard up for workers there. He countered with he couldn't imagine life without me and I pointed out that I am not deciding to leave but instead reacting to his choices. He just agreed.
We also got onto the topic of Christmas (it came about naturally) and he said I could still go home for Christmas. I pointed out that, with the year we have had, if we are staying together I wouldn't leave him like that - this will be the first year where his family has no contact with him and would be very isolating to be alone. I told him I would never leave family alone like that (and he is my family). Now, I wonder if he got an invite for Christmas elsewhere and was trying to get rid ofme so he could go with a clear conscious (i.e. still fence sitting big time). I am going to have to ask him about that.
Reality is, his time is up. This is the last weekend in August. If it doesn't come up naturally, I will confront him on Sat. (after jet lag has worn off) and tell him tomake a decision - he is either my husband or not. If he is, I stay, we keep working and he starts NC now (and I want either written proof or to be able to hear the conversation when he tells her). If he is not, we will start divorce proceedings and I will be calling a moving company and be gone within the month.
In truth, I can't deal with this anymore. I am willing to work on it if he wants it to work and I know it will be hard. But I am done playing the sucker while he plays both side of the fence. My heart can't take it. As it stands, I have 2 possible futures, which means I have none to work on. I don't know where I am even living a month from now. I can't take it anymore. No one deserves to live like that.
((((Chinook)))) I wish there were words or thoughts I could give that would be of comfort to you. As strong as you sound (and you sound very strong), I know inside you must be heartbroken yet again. For that, I send you many hugs.
You have very clear vision right now. I think its important to keep that clarity and stand by everything you have said to your H. You could not have been more clear with him from the beginning of what you expected and needed from him. Who knows what his reaction will be? He remains atop that fence with his head in his A fog, and his feet in cement. You deserve a decision so you know how to proceed with your life. You have been the woman who loves him the most and who has been his best friend...even through the crap he has put you through. If he doesn't see that now, I feel positive there will be a point in the future where he understands it. Hopefully, that will not be a time that is too late for the both of you.
But you deserve to have a life. And I feel strongly that whichever path you go down, you will be successful, because of who you are. Your values, ethics and spirit are deeply centered and rooted. Stay true to you. Stay true to you. Stay true to you. If he has an ounce of sense, he will wake up and smell the coffee. If not, he has blown the biggest opportunity of his life to be truly loved and love.
Keep us posted. We'll all be holding the best hopes and wishes for you. But keep that mantra running...Stay true to you. Stay true to you. Stay true to you. ((((hugs)))) BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
My heart goes out to you. I was very afraid that he would be seeing OW, as you were, so I wasn't a bit surprised when I read your post.
What jumped out at me so hard was his attempts at making you feel guilty for wanting and planning to leave. He is sitting on the fence, KNOWS he is, knows he is holding you hostage, and yet, despite his statements to you of how important you are to him, he doesn't seem willing even to try to get down off the fence, just expects you to give him permission to sit on the fence and support him emotionally while he balances up there.
The time for words seems finished. It is time for action. And if that action is your packing up the remnants of your life, so that you can make a clean break and heal away from him, so be it.
You must take care of yourself. He is not showing any desire to work on your marriage.
Just my sad fairy cents' worth and HUGE fairy hugs to you,
I know I am fairly new here and don't really know your situation that well. From all I have read, it seems you have been extremely understanding and supportive of your WS. He is a FOOL to give you up, and if you two do separate, I guarantee he'll realize that pretty quickly. He is playing both sides of the fence. Maybe he thinks he can get away with it or maybe he is just in *the fog.* You are very fortunate to be so strong -- and so able to leave and start a new life. If that is what you end up choosing to do, I have no doubt you will build a happy and successful life, knowing that you gave it your all and that you have all the determination a person could need. I hope that you end up with the outcome that you desire, but even if you don't, you'll be a better person. And your WH will see how strong and great you are.
Wow! I haven't heard you so strong in a long time. Hugs to you that he's not working on it. Way to stick to your guns. You're in my thoughts and prayers. Inspiring...you are.
We talked last night (power was out for 2 hours andit just came up). Essentially, he doens't know what he wants, but he doesn't want a life without me, he won't do NC with OW, he doesn't know if she will be coming to Ottawa in Feb., he doesn't care about his job, money or anythign in his life. He wants the life we have, where we are good together but he "knows there will never be passion". At the same time, OW makes him happier than anyone else ever has but she is as tudent and he can't live with her. He could have just not come back to Canada (with the consequence of never being able to return due tobreaking his military contract) but why would he because she will be here in Feb. (he contradicted himself so much I don't know what way is up). He stopped me fromcallingmy paretns to start my move out because he doens't want me burning bridges in case we change our minds a few days later but, then again, he doesn't care what my family thinks of him. He loves me (and I beleive him) and it would kill him for me to leave (again, I believe him) but he won't leave her. I ask him to act like my husband and he points out we are married but says later our marriage has been over for a long time.
I honestly believe him when he sdays he doesn't know what he wants because he confused me with what he said.
So, I bit the bullet and emailed her the follwoing list of questions:
1.Are you planning on moving to Ottawa in February (or any other time)?
2.If you move to Ottawa, are you planning on living with WS?
3.If you are unsure, how much notice are you going to give WS to kick me out of my home (last time he only gave me less than a month, but he begged me not to leave for Alberta and, the day I moved out, told me it was the big mistake but he wasn’t going to leave you homeless)
4.Do you realize that he has not asked me for a divorce?
5.Do you realize that I am currently renting a room from him, partially paying for the rent by letting him use my furniture and appliances which I bought before we married and will leave with me when I go?
6.Did you realize that he was “dating” me while you were living with him in our condo?
Of course, WS is going to be mad if OW tells himabout this, but what is he going to do - kick me out. I am 3/4 out the door. I am just waiting for the strength to do it. Plus, from listening to so many of you, it sounds like I will know when I "have to" leave. I am hoping her answers will give me that feeling because, right now, I don't want to. Why should I have to ruin my life for him to be happy?
The thing is, Chinook, your H is so obviously NOT happy. Ask any WS here, and I will bet my house on this, that s/he was NOT happy during the A. WS are confused, petulant, selfish, conflicted, doubting, giddy, upset, and a whole lot of other adjectives, but happy is not one of them. Sure, they may say they are happy, but that is part of the self-delusion.
You wrote: "He wants the life we have, where we are good together but he "knows there will never be passion."
Sweetie, that is just a variation on the "I love you, but I am not IN love with you" theme. It's funny how a person can go from loving the spouse, finding the spouse sexy and exciting to that state. It is ALL part of the A fog. Your H so clearly is addicted to the attention and the excitement of the A. I'm amazed he doesn't just fly away because his head is spinning faster than the blades of a helicopter!
As long as he knows that he can keep you from leaving and keep alive his fantasy of having two adoring women, he will continue his behavior. He has no reason to change because he has gotten away with his fencesitting for quite a while.
The question is what do you want? What would be best for you?
"The question is what do you want? What would be best for you?"
Ws kept saying the same thing last night. And the answers are complete opposites, which is why I can't figure out what to do.
What do I want - I want my husband back as my husband with NC from the OW.
What is best for me - Probably walking away and not looking back at an R that is destroying me.
Which is why, if I can't have what I want, I have to settle with what is best. But, I don't want to settle.
Aaarrrgghh...And then he goes and be's all sweet to me this mornign. He asked how I slept and I said horrible because there was a storm and, besides having turned into a light sleeper and thunder waking me up, my rather large dog who is all legs is terrified of thunder and whenever there is lightening, he insists on trying to get inside my skin for safety (smart dog that he is, he figured out the connection). So what does WS say - why didn't you wake me up. I won't have stayed up with you. And, he felt so bad last night that he wanted to wake me up and hug me and say good things but new he shouldn't wake me up (especially since I haven't been sleeping well and I have huge bags under my eyes). This is the man I married, not the jerk that I talked to last night who can't figure out up from down.
Ya know, I have avoided this thread because it so reminds me of my situation but I just cant ignore this anymore. Are you really in this situation or is this someone playing a joke. I have got to honestly say that I have stayed with my Wh for 13yrs mainly because of other circumstances beyond the marriage , but i dont know how anyone who has the support and ability to get out of this type of situation and to stop the madness, just why you are still there. I honestly am not trying to hurt you by what i say but i simply cant stand by and not say something, when you are just hurting yourself more. If he isnt remorseful and it sounds like he isnt from your posts, just staying long enough for her to join him , and it sounds like you know this, than are you going to choose to be in a three person marriage. I only wish i had as many reasons to leave my spouse right now that you have. Can you even see what you are saying. By being in contact with the ow you are completely allowing these two ppl to manipulate you. You are completely at their bidding. Is that what you want in your marriage and life. The best advice i can give is to do the 180 and take yourself out of this abusive situation. After being in control and finding yourself again and being able to make good decisions for yourself without wh and ow deciding for you, only then can you move forward.If things change and YOU decide to keep him around, than you must realize unless you want to be in an open marriage that you have to demand some sort of respect, starting with no contact with ow. Im sorry if this sounds blunt but i think it is so sad that someone would choose to continue to stay in this situation as it is. I hope you can find yourself and trust yourself enough to do the right thing for you. good luck and if i have offended you i apologize, but i just dont understand why anyone would put themself in what i have read and continue to do so. You need to take care of you because no one else will if you wont even look out for yourself. ali
Ali - I live 4 provinces and two time zones from family and close friends. In order to leave him, I must give up my job and drive 3 days (no exageration) to find anywhere that will take me. Plane ticekts are expensive and I need ac ar anyway because there is no public transit where I am. I have been out of my profession for 3 years and have no current references (a HUGE deal in my job). I have debt and barely enough to survive amonth if I had too, and that's only if I live all my furniture and professional supplies from before I married because the money would barely cover a mover never mind a move and surviving. I am not guaranteed that I could stay with anyone if I went back home, after all, they thought I was in an abusive relationship before and said and did nothing. The one person who offered a place for me at one point has moved into a retirement home, so I can't stay with her. And, oh yeah, there is 0% rental back home, so it is family or joing the tent city in downtown Edmonton.
If I left him, and trust me when i say I am still considering it, I will literally loose everything and be worse off than when I was a university student who could fit everythign she owned in her car.
As for abusive, I have seen a lot worse than someone cheating on their spouse. If that's abuse, half the coutnry would have to be locked up. Calling my situation abusive is insulting to those who truly live in fear.
I understand the frustration in ali's post. It makes me so angry to read how this man can say one thing yet do another. He loves you, but he loves her. Can't live without you, won't live without her. He wants it all. It's not healthy for you to be constantly pulled in so many directions. He has you on an emotional rollercoaster. I am so sorry for what he is putting you through. I have to wonder if he would be ok with you using him financially while you look around for a better catch. Yes I'm being facetious.
What I seriously wanted to suggest, is a savings account for yourself. I can relate to the finacial prison you may find yourself in. If your able to hid away little bits of money here and there it could be very comforting to you to know you have a means of escape. At least while your living in limbo (not knowing what he is going to do) you could be actively building your own self confidence. You've already shown how strong you are by holding on to this crappy ride he's had you on.
Ask yourself this question "If you hit the lottery today, would you still be with him tomorrow?" My heart is with you and my prayers will hold you. God Bless laura
"What I seriously wanted to suggest, is a savings account for yourself. I can relate to the finacial prison you may find yourself in. If your able to hid away little bits of money here and there it could be very comforting to you to know you have a means of escape. At least while your living in limbo (not knowing what he is going to do) you could be actively building your own self confidence. You've already shown how strong you are by holding on to this crappy ride he's had you on.
Ask yourself this question "If you hit the lottery today, would you still be with him tomorrow?" My heart is with you and my prayers will hold you. God Bless laura"
I have been saving up to have a way out. This is what I have so far, which is why it so frustrating for someone to tell me to get out.
If I won the lottery, would I be gone? Yes. I could support myself AND have the ability to move back if he came to his senses (which he probably would once I was gone, if what he says is true). But, as it stands, I don't have enough to leave and, when I do, it will be for good because I can't afford to move again.
I am jealous of all of you who have family within easy reach. It does make all the difference because you have somewhere togo, even if it is only for a night.
I understand more of where your coming from now. I think I had you mixed up with someone else, it's so easy to do here. Even though our situations are different, I wanted nothing more than to leave, run, get out as fast as I could. What held me back was the money. I couldn't do it. I also don't have family or really any close friends I could go to, even for a night. I am a very closterphobic person and living in my house was smothering me. I felt like I was living in a prison. It took a year for me to get over that feeling, and that was only because he did agree to NC with ow. If he had refused NC I would probably, most definately, really, be in your shoes.
After DDay I started a savings account, I probably already mentioned that. At the time I had nothing. No credit, no bank account, nothing. He could have left me with 6 kids and no means to care for them. I think I was more scared of what I was going to do than hurt. His A not only took away my trust, it took away my feeling safe. I will never leave myself that vulnerable again.
I am very sorry he is putting you through this.
I don't want to make light of what your going through nor do I want to offend you, but I can't get this image out of my head every time I think of your post. The way he is treating you reminds me of when I was little and use to tease my dog with his bone. I was scolded by my parents not to be so cruel to the dog. This must be a lesson someone forgot to teach him. My heart is with you. God Bless.
I know your situation is complex, and you are doing the best you can do under the circumstances. I know even if you wished to just pack a bag and leave, you can't. I applaud you for having as much strength as you do.
I do disagree with you on one point, however. I do believe that infidelity is a form of abuse. Is it physical abuse? No, but it is mental and emotional abuse. Believe me, having grown up with a verbally and emotionally abuse (never physical!) alcoholic mother, I know full well that abuse doesn't have to be just physical pain.
Think of what an A does to the BS: causes fear, uncertainty, loss of self-esteem, unclear thinking, emotional pain, sometimes loss of income, loss of support, suicidal thinking, and a whole plethora of other negative effects. Is the WS thinking clearly and asking him/herself if s/he is abusing the BS? No, I don't believe so, but regardless of whether or not the WS is aware that s/he is abusing the BS, I believe the BS is very much the victim of abuse.
I believe if you ask any FWS, s/he will readily agree that the A was very much a form of spousal abuse. I am just sorry you are going through it. Remember, too, that it is not unusual for a victim of abuse to deny being abused.
I'm sorry you are hurting.
Gentle fairy hugs,
Current Topic - Update - WS is back from Europe (long)
