My H has told me today that he has been lurking on HH. He used to have a keylog program on to track the kids. He got my messages too. He quit keylogging my computer after a post where I was upset and discussing divorce. But he knows my log-on name and password. I wonder how much he knows. I feel violated somehow. This was supposed to be my place to safely vent whenever I needed. Now I have to moderate or quit because he maybe lurking.

He won't talk to me about this. In fact all this came out because I had a little trigger and tried joking about it instead of just being upset. He reacted with anger. He said I was accusing him of still cheating. He said I will never let it go. He said I only bring it up to hurt him.

I tried to explain I bring it up when I am hurting and just need to be reassured. But he persisted that the only reason to continue to talk about it was to hurt him.

On one level, I am almost happy about the amount of talking we did. We haven't talked this much about our true feeling since the earliest days of recovery.

But he steadfastly refuses to see my side. My need to discuss any triggers. His need to constantly reassure me. I mean, I trusted him after one time, but how can he expect blind trust after a second time.

I don't know what he wants from me, but it is clear I can't talk to him about it. I will have to suffer in silence and hope he gives up on this forum so I will have someplace to discuss it.

Trinity

Gosh, Trinity! You definitely should have a safe place to talk...whether that's here or at home. They should both be places where your opinion is welcome and listened to and considered. We've definitely seen here that agreement isn't a given. But there is respect enough to hear different points of view.

I wish your H felt safe enough himself to come here openly and talk, ask, teach and learn. We are all trying to do find a way out of the pain of betrayal. We know that betrayers have pain, too, and their own road of healing.

This is not a place for coming to just bitch and moan about the sorry state of our lives. We are trying to understand what happened, and trying to heal. Sadly, there is no step by step guide specific to each individual and each marriage. We understand all too well that our spouses may have had their fill at times of hearing our heartache. Thank goodness for this site, because my H has no idea how much more I would be talking to him if this resource were not available. And in the meantime, I'm often able to calm myself down and see a more rational side of the circumstance when I can bring a topic here first, instead of rushing to confront my H.

Mr. Trinity, if you are reading this, I hope you can see that this site isn't a place to keep the A alive and the sore festering; its a place where those still hurting from an A gather support and care and understanding of how to move forward and on with their lives. Most of us want to do that with our spouses to find a place where the marriage can continue. I lurked, too, for a long time before I became brave enough to post. I was ashamed that an A was now a part of my history. I know in many ways, I still carry that shame, even though I'm not the one who had the A. You would be welcome if you ever wanted to be here, too.

But even if you decide not to post here, please try to understand the value of this site. It is not a threat to you, your W, or your marriage. Only you and she have the power to heal your marriage. I wish you both the very best in making your marriage successful. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Is it possible to go to a library or internet cafe to establish a new password and name... and post from a computer that doesn't have the keylogging software in it...or you and H writing to each other, might be a way to have H know your feelings, where you stand, and vice versa.

OMG, Pink...when you wrote:

"He said I was accusing him of still cheating. He said I will never let it go. He said I only bring it up to hurt him.

I tried to explain I bring it up when I am hurting and just need to be reassured. But he persisted that the only reason to continue to talk about it was to hurt him.

On one level, I am almost happy about the amount of talking we did. We haven't talked this much about our true feeling since the earliest days of recovery.

But he steadfastly refuses to see my side. My need to discuss any triggers. His need to constantly reassure me. I mean, I trusted him after one time, but how can he expect blind trust after a second time.

I don't know what he wants from me, but it is clear I can't talk to him about it. I will have to suffer in silence and hope he gives up on this forum so I will have someplace to discuss it."

This is such A HUGE trigger for me! Just reading your words. I could have written the EXACT same thing last summer!!! Now, I know why. It makes such sense NOW. Of course, in my case, H was STILL cheating! HA! He SAID he wasn't, but that didn't matter! He would manipulate me with EXACTLY what your H says to you!!

It's so clear a year later, but I couldn't see it then. And when I thought I did...and tried to discuss it...H would manipulate the conversation to being MY PROBLEM!

I feel for you, Pink. I hope your situation isn't going to be a repeat of mine.

My H NOW is 180 degrees different. He will listen to anything! He takes FULL responsibility! He ENCOURAGES me to VENT!!! He is no longer defensive. Oh, what a difference a year made...

Best of luck.


Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

I would keep posting this was his choice to step in and be nosy. what a shi*ty thing to do.. and then get angery with you over this... I guess i would say this is my safe haven he doesn't have to keep reading it it he doesn't like what you say...

I know this doesn't help . and I really am sorry for this... in a way he doesn't like seeing what you wrote becuase he know its all the truth... and we all know what truth does to cheaters...

I hope you can find some comfort somewhere. you shouldn't have to live in silence anymore. not because of his choices.

I will be thinking about you and hoping ..

hugs
april

What is the old saying? Something like "eavesdroppers never hear anything good about themselves," as I recall. I think the say can be said for spys.

Trinity, please don't stop posting even if you have to go to the local library and use a computer there. Don't let your H ruin this outlet for you. You can set up a new account and password if you need to.

On the other hand, it sounds like maybe what you have written here might be having some kind of impact on your H. Perhaps when he sees what you have written here, he takes the message much more seriously.

Oh, if only you knew if and when he came here and read your messages! Then you could write tailor-made for his eyes posts.

Sending you huge hugs and a message for your H: Please, Mr. T, come here to HH. Let us show you that we want both of you to heal, be happy, and have a happy, wonderful life together.

Encouraging fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

I somehow created in my mind that this place was a secret place and only "we" were here. But, its the internet! The whole world can come in and see our pain, the very private aspects of our lives that we share openly. I realized this myself when my husband brought up something about the rings which I'd posted a while back. I assumed that he was "spying" but he said he saw it over my shoulder...right. He said it was like when I saw him looking a sugardaddies.com just saw it out of the corner of his eye. It took me a half hour to figure out exactly what he was looking at! I couldn't read anything on the page, much less the content of a post.

The only thing having your login and password does is allow him to know who you are - which he would figure out after about a half hour of reading posts anyway. And the login would allow him to edit or delete portions of your post.

My approach to this is that my feelings should be discussed and known, my pain observed and felt. My husband might think that our marriage issues are a private matter, but they became not private when he went and tried to resolve them by screwing another woman, a stranger, someone who could do absolutely NOTHING to resolve the problems. That is not a very private way to handle these matters. (Sorry I let the bitterness come in...I can't help it sometimes.)

I look on here when he's sitting next to me, if I laugh and he says "what?" I tell him no matter what it was I was laughing at - and that has been hard sometimes . I'll read him something that I think is important to our recovery. I know he hates it hates it hates it. But, I went through weeks and continue to go through months of hating to hear his blackberry going off, not to mention all the other triggers.

He is the one that managed to create problems by not communicating and sharing and venting with me. I have learned from that so he is welcome and in fact I would encourage him to come and read the history of my strength, pain, agony, confusion, dismay, and utter despair here. The only thing that I have never written here is this exact discussion, because I didn't want him to know that I knew he was lurking. Then he would think that I was editing, but I NEVER have.

That's my thoughts on the matter. It shouldn't be a big deal that he's looked, unless you both had a verbal agreement that he would not look. To me the big deal is how he responded. I am going through the realization right now that my H has the behavior of someone who has continued his A, so I am EXTREMELY biased when I agree with the other poster that your H's response falls into the category of the behavior of someone in the fog or involved in an A.

I'm also in the "it shouldn't be a big deal" frame of mind

For a couple reasons -

1) If he's not willing to listen, maybe reading here will allow him to see how you feel

2) I have a major problem with "secret friends" in a relationship - I believe they cause problems. In our marriage, I'd want to know what my H was posting about our relationship -- it's pretty intimate stuff. It wasn't okay for him to talk about our relationship to someone else, get her input and ideas and them come home with some set of how things ought to be. Why would it be okay for me?

My H lurks here too, and because of that, he knows some of the expectations that I now have in our marriage. Maybe it's not all about what I write, but the common themes of boundries, "it takes two" , transparancy, ... those things he understands, in part because he lurks here.


On the other hand, I think there are dangers of using HH as a place to leave messages for H to read or to expect him to come here to find out what's in my head.

-Susan

Susan

Good point. I was thinking about Trinity being able to express her feelings about topics that her H wasn't willing to listen to, but might read and take in if he were lurking here. I didn't mean for her to specifically address him. The rules here are that the forum is not to be used as a way of direct communication between spouses for fear, I am sure, of getting arguements and he said-she said discussions taking over a thread.

It does make sense that if she (or any other spouse) is not able to get the WS to see the BS point of view for the BS to write that point of view here, whether or not the WS reads it.

My H only reads here if I point out something, and then he will comment with his view about a situation, but he has not ever, to my knowledge, lurked here because he found even the thought of doing so much too painful because of his guilt.

ff

How you react to something determines the future path that area of your life takes.

For example, if your partner betrays you, do you run for divoce court, do you beg for restoration or do you offer forgiveness, reconcilation, and divorce depending on your spoue's attitude.

If the first one never gives recocnilation a chance, do they miss an opportunity? If the second one never allows that their spouse might actually be trying to end the marraige, do they cause unnecessary hardship in their life? Does each choice allow the person the same amount of assurance that they gave enough commitment to their marraige?

Another example, how does the future unfold when we choose a job, a neighborhood, a home? You never know how the alternatives would have turned out, and you can drive yourself crazy trying to second guess your decisions. However, there are some decisions that are easy to second guess.

In general, I think it's those decisions that came from being too selfish (i.e. affairs) or too careful (i.e. missed opportunity).

Trinity, you have another choice here. Do you continue to post, do you worry about what your husband reads here. Is this an opportunity, or is it a setback? I think how you react determines one or the other.

Interestingly enough it also applies to how your husband has reacted to the knowledge of this site, and what you've written in your time here. Does he see this discovery as an opportunity, or is it a setback? If he reacts defensively then he defines it as a setback. However, if he joins in, or uses it as a means to better understand pain and then better care for you, then he changes this into an opportunity. He gets to decide what it is. He might have to deal with negative feelings to make it an opportunity, such as shame, guilt, or even fear, but so do you if you continue to post.

It's really something that each person decides for themself. Which future will he choose? Which future will you choose?

TomJ

Trinity,

I am sorry you are hurting. I do understand what you mean about feeling violated because someone you didnt expect to read such personal information has been "secretly" doing so. I think you feel violated because your H never told you what he was doing. Had he told you he was interested in HH and reading what you had written and asked if it was ok with you then you would not feel betrayed. It's sort of like reading someones diary without permission....hence the feeling of being violated....which is understandable. He should have been honest with you that he had been lurking and reading. Just as I have been honest with my WH...he knows that I post here.

Many people here know that I have also had a "lurker"...and the violation I felt because of it. But the lurker was not my WH...it was OW and her friend. I really felt like my safe place was no longer safe. Eventually I decided that they couldnt take this from me...you guys here are my support and are like family to me.

Then I read what the others wrote, especially Tom. I have to agree. It's like an optimist and a pecimist looking at the glass. Is it half empty or half full...and since there are two of you (you and your H) the way you see it has much to do with the outcome. Tom wrote...

<<Trinity, you have another choice here. Do you continue to post, do you worry about what your husband reads here. Is this an opportunity, or is it a setback? I think how you react determines one or the other.

Interestingly enough it also applies to how your husband has reacted to the knowledge of this site, and what you've written in your time here. Does he see this discovery as an opportunity, or is it a setback? If he reacts defensively then he defines it as a setback. However, if he joins in, or uses it as a means to better understand pain and then better care for you, then he changes this into an opportunity. He gets to decide what it is. He might have to deal with negative feelings to make it an opportunity, such as shame, guilt, or even fear, but so do you if you continue to post.>>

I believe, even though you feel violated and rightfully so, some good can come from this. And like some of the others, if Mr. Trinity is out there, I invite you to post on the Open Board. There are plenty of people who would be willing to listen to anything you had to say and to help in healing if we could. Think about it



~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Thank you for everyones understanding responses. I have changed my password. I suppose it doesn't really matter. He knows more about computers than me and could find it out again if he wanted. Also he can just log on and read all he wants with his own account anyway.

I think that by posting this I was proving I'm going to continue to post. I don't know what will happen if I feel the need to post a more painful message. If I feel suspicious or frustrated. I just will have to cross that bridge when I come to it.

Trinity

Trinity's H's message has been moved to Open. The Healing Forum's policy clearly states...
Coping In Year One - for those betrayed by an extramarital affair only Survival skills, dealing with pain and anger, staying healthy and sane"

This post has been move to the Open board thread "Get A Clue". Click on the link to be moved to that thread on the Open board.

Dear Matthyus,

I'm glad you took some time to let us know of your presence. There's nothing wrong with you coming here; I think its a GREAT thing. I'm not sure if you read my earlier post of this thread. My message is that you are welcome here. I mean that sincerely. The last thing it would be is a "waste". There's great value here for a lot of us, because affairs are difficult situations to get over and heal from. Spouses for lots of reasons can't always be there for us. I would hope that you would welcome ANYTHING that would give Trinity some comfort to help ease the pain that she is still in.

"If my wife wants to talk to you that is her business not mine.

I really do not care"

I'm not sure what to say to you regarding this. If you don't care, I don't understand the anger and frustration I hear in your voice. If you don't care, why are you voicing a concern over what the rest of us are doing? But more importantly, I find this statement INCREDIBLY SAD, because you should care about anything and everything in regard to Trinity.

You are still very welcome to be here. Thanks for taking the time to write. BlueIris


"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

(this message can also be seen on Open's "Get A Clue" post)

BlueIris you handled this much more gracefully than I would Have. That's why your so awsome. You have such a great amount of class.

(this message can also be seen on Open's "Get A Clue" post)