Okay, so I figured I better get my act together if I am oging to survive. I did the 180 before, when I moved out, and that may have been why things imrproved with us. Then I stopped and here I am.

So, I have a few questions about doing a 180:
1. If my spouse asks me for a date, should I say yes (he wants to go to the movies and, when I said I didn't have the cash - we've been goinig dutch (ironic, considering the OW) for everything recently - he was surprised, saying he wouldn't have asked me if he didn't mean to pay. SO, I guess this is a date?

2. If he asks if I'm mad at him (which he has a lot recently, especially since i have been so quiet (I usually won't shut up), what should I say?

3. His B.D. is coming up - does the no gift thing still apply or should I just get him something impersonal?

4. How should I respond when he emails me at owrk to chat (which he normally does). Should I just ignore him?

5. Any advice on how to show happiness and ocntentment while my heart is breaking?

Chinook

Hi Chinook - don't really have advice but I'm giving this 180 a try as well. Maybe we can help each other through it - remind each other not to give in!

My H is coming by our place today and I would love to see him -- but i'm going to make myself scarce. This is sooooooo hard.

Good luck - i'll be interested to read what others advise you to do regarding the 180....

My thoughts are with you Ka

I think most people would advise you to do whatever you feel comfortable doing regarding the 180 list. Modify it to fit you and your needs. But the point of the whole thing is not to make the WS the priority in your life, that means putting yourself first. Can you do that? If you can do that you can move on eventually with or without your WS.

You asked:

<<1. If my spouse asks me for a date, should I say yes (he wants to go to the movies and, when I said I didn't have the cash - we've been goinig dutch (ironic, considering the OW) for everything recently - he was surprised, saying he wouldn't have asked me if he didn't mean to pay. SO, I guess this is a date?>>

Only say yes if you want to go and have no plans. If you already have plans dont change them for him. But if you want to play hardball, say no the first couple of times. I know this sounds like a game, and basically it is. But as I have come to find out sometimes you gotta play "the game". And for goodness sakes girl, if you go out on a date let him pay!!! If he cant afford to take you out then he shouldnt ask.

<<2. If he asks if I'm mad at him (which he has a lot recently, especially since i have been so quiet (I usually won't shut up), what should I say?>>

If you go by the 180 list, you will show your indifference. Meaning you will calmly and unemotionally let him know you have no desire to discuss the relationship. But if you listen to the all the infidelity books they say you should let the WS know you're in pain if you are trying to reconcile and rebuild the marriage. The 180 is the opposite. So think about what you feel is appropriate for your situation. That's really all any of us can do.

<<3. His B.D. is coming up - does the no gift thing still apply or should I just get him something impersonal?>>

For special occasions I would find it really hard not to buy my WH something. We have been together for 21 years. Those occasions being his birthday, christmas, and maybe our anniversary. But that is just me. And if you do decide to buy him something an impersonal gift would be appropriate. But if you are trying to send the message "you dont matter that much to me" then no gift would certainly send that message. If you cant afford a gift then that alone is a good enough reason not to buy one. Again, only you can make that decision.

<<4. How should I respond when he emails me at work to chat (which he normally does). Should I just ignore him?>>

Personally, I would read them but not respond. Again, your decision.

<<5. Any advice on how to show happiness and contentment while my heart is breaking?>>

It's hard to show it if you dont feel it, atleast it is for me. I would find things to keep me busy. Go out/vist (spend time) with friends and family. Take care of you and do things that make you happy. Go for walks...workout...go to a movie...take a class...volunteer somewhere....read books...whatever makes YOU feel good about YOU And dont dwell on whatever your WS is or isnt doing...it's about you and taking care of YOU now.



~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Let me start by saying I'm not a "180 expert", meaning I've never read the book that describes it. However, I thought about who I would approach separation and divorce, and the process of extracting myself emotionally from my relationship with my wife. Will will share those thoughts with you.

First, I expected to move out. I can see why you're not doing that, so I'm trying to look at how I'd live in that environment until I could leave. Even if I did move out, there'd be a time between the decision and the full departure.

In this imagined situation my wife has essentially stated that she does not want a marriage with me, or at least she doesn't want it on terms that are acceptable to me (i.e. continuing her affair). I see her not as my wife, and not even as a friend, but as a person who has betrayed me and doesn't regret it. It would be like having a roomate that I didn't get along with. I don't like spending time with people that would lie to me and betray me, so I wouldn't accept any offers to spend time together. I certainly wouldn't consider giving them any gifts for any occasion. I also would try my best to live in this environment without spending any more time than necessary with her. At the same time, I wouldn't want to engage in angry confrontations. I would find places to spend my time that avoided the home. I think I'd spend more time at work, or shopping, or at a library. I might go to parks or places where I could get some exercise. I like to spend time in the woods, so I might go on a few hikes. I would probably seek out some new friends. I wouldn't discuss my plans or my experiences with my wife. I would probably make it difficult for her to do anything toward reconcilation. I don't know if that's wise, but for me, that would be part of turning away from my marriage.

I would cook my own meals and do my own dishes. I'd have my own place for food supplies. I'd do my own shopping and my own laundry. I'd have my own bedroom.

We have children, so there would be responsibilities that I would have to meet. I'd have to change the way I live in some ways, and start taking responsiblity for certain parts of their care that my wife presently does. I'm not sure how that would work for us, since my wife presently doesn't earn an income sufficient for maintaining the home and providing for the family in any significant way. However, I'd expect more from her than she is presently doing. I'd ask her to look for work that would go further toward providing for her needs after I was perminantly gone. I would start making plans to sell the home (either to her or to a third party). In other words, I'd start planning the division of assets and our responsiblities for children.

Shortly after D-day, several people in my family were married. I would have attend those separate from her. If she was invited separately from me, then I would still attend, but I would not accompany her.

I would file income taxes separately from her. I would set up my own checking account as well as other financial accounts.

If she asked me to stop this approach to living, or to 'return' to the relationship, I would only do that if she had met my conditions (i.e. end the affair perminantely and show significant progress toward better character). I don't think I would give up the 180 lifestyle easily, because I see it as an implementation of a well considered decision. Ending should take and even more lengthy and careful decision process.

Now, I have to admit, as I write this, I don't know for certain if I'd really follow through on these ideas. It seems a lot like telling someone what "I'd do if my spouse ever betrayed me" and we all know how that goes. Take this with a grain (a big grain!) of salt.

TomJ

Tom, I see what you are saying but I don't know if I could handle going all out and essentially walking away from my marriage while still living there. After all, WS has said that he wants to spend these next few months trying to remember why he married me int he first place. Since the OW is across an ocean, all he can do is contact her by email and won't do that when I am around (his promise so he doesn't rub my face in it).

As for seperating, technically we already are. I have my own room and I pay rent (the cheque even says "rent" on it). He has refused my offer to take over more bills, saying that I do that with my rent. Before the A, because there are times when we only have his income (it takes me 1 to 2 months to find a new job when we move), we have always lived off his income and used mine to pay down debt and have fun. So, the concept of me taking over bills, or even contributing to household expenses, is a new one (though I do more of the chores than him in return).

Our finances have been seperated since we were married but, socially, we are pretty much all we have due to where we live (only anglos in a very french area). We have no famliy around. But, we have always done our best to do stuff seperately.

Ironically, if we went our seperate ways now, his life wouldn't change much.

Chinook

I too liked what Tom said. It is a 180 of sorts and is meant to help you emotionally detach.

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Chinook,

I really like all of what Tom wrote.

One thing I know from our situation is that if you give a WS an inch they will take a yard when they are in the fog. In your situation NC is not happening so I would not give respect in any way until he showed enough respect to stop all contact. He is in the players seat and asking you to deceive the OW in order to salvage his relationship with her. He is asking you to convince him why he married you. How can you do that if he is not committing to you?

Infidelity is a very immature act and that immaturity can lead to very immature expectations. I believe your H needs a strong dose of honesty. Tell him the truth, and tell him how good it could be again but who wants to be in a marriage with 3 people. I would say he has made his choice very clear. Competing for a spot in this marriage seems pointless. With OW out of the picture right now you have the space to honestly show him you can make it on your own. Proving you don't need him would make him see a strong woman and the OW could continue being the child she is.

Amber

Chinook:

Don't take my post to mean those things are what you should be doing. By no means should you follow the ideas that I have. Rather, I offered this list as a way to help you think about how you'd do the 180. How I'd do it can be completely different. Like I said, I'm not an expert on what it means to do the 180. I only shared my thoughts on how I expected to behave in the event of separation headed toward divorce in the context of my wife having an affair and not wanting to end it.

TomJ

I'm very new to the 180 concept and am only learning or inferring about it through these emails but I think I get the idea. I can only speak from my own experience and tell you that I immediately threw my H out of the house on D-Day to live at his sisters. I called an attorney and let my H know this. I did not tell me children, family or friends (except for a trusted few for support). I didn't tell because ultimately my goal was to save our marriage and I knew it would be difficult to have our lives back so to speak if everyone knew and I wanted to shield my 14 and 10 year old.

I then proceeded to only let him see the kids 3x/week. He is a devoted dad and this killed him. He kept emailing, calling, etc. When he finally agreed to end the A (6weeks after D-day) I let him move back into the in-law apartment downstairs in our house. Set strict rules. We went to Couple therapy together. He lied for a while about having no contact, etc. Until I saw his cell bill. He couldn't lie or hide anymore. He finally gave it all up 9 weeks after d-day and hasn't talked to her since. It's now been 1 year in Sept. We're happy.

I fought for him. I set boundaries and rules but let him know how much I loved him and our life together. We spent a ridiculous amount of time together with no room for secrets or hiding. Turning a 180 completely was not even on the radar for me. Reconciliation was. But that was only doable if he truly got that I wasn't willing to be lied to or cheated on. He heard it loud and clear and weighed the consequenses of his life if he chose the OW. Ultimately I knew our marriage was strong enough to withstand this ONE incident. He is still in therapy for himself and he seems happy.

I say set limits, hold your ground, show your love and intentions but be firm.
LisaB