I have been lurking on these boards for the past month. I found out in Feb that my husband had had a long affair with a former best friend of mine. My story is somewhat different than most because it ended 12 years ago, but it has been very painful. My problem is this--I was doing really well(at least the past several weeks) until Monday night when I watched something on TV that has become a horrible trigger for me. I just can't get it out of my mind and it seems to be destroying my sanity. I have talked with my husband about this, but I don't think he understands. I don't have anyone else to talk to today and I really could use some advice. Thanks.
I found out about my H's most significant A 7 years after it happened. In some ways, that made it worse for me - all those years of lying, tainted memories, delusions, Discovering an A is horrible - it doesn't matter how long ago it happened.
And triggers are also very normal and come in all different levels of severity and duration. Seems like you had a bad one. It is great that you could talk to your H about it. I think the best thing to do is to just get it out and talk as much as you need to- come here, talk to whoever knows about the situation, ask for hugs from H and for me, showers are a big help.
Strange, I have also been haunted for the last couple of days by a movie. Everything about life is so different once you become a BS - I never realized so many movies, books, conversations are about adultery. Yuck.
Sorry I can't be much more help.
This message has been edited by selfesteemseeker on Sep 5, 2007 4:00 PM
First of all, regarding the 12 yrs since it occured, I've heard people say that it's not how long in the past it occured, but rather how recently the betrayed party finds out. If anything, the length of betrayal could be considered longer than most since you've been living without knowledge of this for the past 12 yrs in addition to the time of the affair.
It took my wife a while to start to understand how to respond to moments when I was triggered to feelings of anger or sadness. However, the fact that your spouse WANTS to help is more important that how effective they are, because if they really want to help over time they learn what works and what doesn't. What helped my wife most was when I explained my feelings in a way that allowed her to see my pain more clearly, without feeling defensive. She also had to work on listening rather than reacting when I explained my pain. Together we worked toward a better level of communication.
I would encourage you to ask him to listen to you while you explain your feelings, tell him that it's important that he tries to listen to you, validate you, and empathise with your feelings. Give him opportunities to share with you how he feels also. I believe when you can partner with your spouse in recovery, it makes the process much easier.
I don't have the 12 year gap. But I think that it is normal to get into a space where you think you are dealing with it well and the way that you want to and then the emotions creep in and things start to unravel. A trigger can do it or you just sort of realize that this is a bigger deal for you than you thought. It's like you are in shock at first so you don't realize or feel every feeling. Then as your body and mind start to relax the pain becomes more real.
It's so hard to feel right now, but you are going to be ok. You will survive this. You are not alone. I realized after a while that this event did not make all of the other good memories that we had together a lie. But, it took me awhile to get there, and I do have to remind myself of this frequently.
Thank you so much for caring! I only have 2 friends that I can talk to about this, so there are times when it's overwhelming. We have had this "perfect" M for 32 years. I knew that we weren't close for years and I knew that he had his own private world that he didn't share with me, but I had no idea that it included an A. I had an intuition that something was going on between the two of them during the time it was going on, but he always denied it or told me I was completely crazy to even think such a thing. So, I put it off as too much stress from running his own business, overcommittment, etc. Now, I have found out all these years later that what I suspected was actually truth. You have really hit the feeling I am having, that instead of an affair of almost 10 years, the betrayal time has been 21+ years. This is huge. I am wondering what was wrong with me all those years that I never realized that he was someone totally different than I thought he was. Now he would really like to work on restoring our marriage and it feels almost like we have to start all over because even though we have all these years together the pattern was skewed. We are doing MC and C with our pastor and also another couple who experienced an A.
Welcome...I can identify with your feelings so much...your story sounds so much like mine. My H’s A lasted for nearly 15 years and it was also with a former friend. I discovered it 2 ½ years after the PA ended...but they continue the EA until I discovered that in January of this year. I too thought we had a good relationship for most of those years. I had no suspicions.... I wonder too what was wrong with me that I didn’t see what was going on. I can only attribute that to my blind faith in him and in friendship. I know very well the pain of being betrayed by 2 people I was very close to. Because of the length of the A and who it was with, there is a never ending supply of triggers. I’ve tried to eliminate them as they come up….one by one...sometimes it’s just a matter of looking at things in a different way or creating new memories to stamp out the old. So many shows on TV are about infidelity; I think the way I get through them is by separating TV (fiction) from my situation (fact). In talking with my H, I’ve discovered that I am not the only one with triggers; he has them too, and for him, they bring on feelings of shame. The best you can do is talk about you’re feelings and let him see your pain. For some reason, at least for me, sharing the triggers seems to alleviate some of the intense feelings of sadness and anger. Despite that, we will probably never be able to forget; the triggers will always be there. We just have to find ways for them to matter less. Would love to “chat” with you sometime...how did you discover it after all those years? How do you deal with the fact that OW was your best friend? I still struggle with that and the mutual friendships that have been compromised as a result of my discovery. In regard to “starting over” in your marriage; I’ve felt pretty much the same way. Our 35th anniversary was 2 months ago, and I didn’t feel much like “celebrating” it. A friend suggested I think of it as a “new beginning”; and, for now, that’s all I can do, because knowing what I know now, doesn’t make me feel like I’ve been married for 35 years. And, I don’t ever want to go back to the way we were. Apparently, it wasn’t working.
Take care.
Tulip, it does sound very similar. How do you deal with the length of time of the A? This has been a real struggle for me. It seems to me that the high of the A should have been over long before it ended. Also, did your H give you any explanation why it lasted so long? My H just says 'I don't know--I have no explanation for it'. That drives me crazy because he is normally a thinker who doesn't do anything unless he's really thought it out thoroughly, but he doesn't seem to have ever even considered what he was doing.
The way I found out is a long story. The short version is that because of something that was said in a church service and my response to it, I became aware that there was a relationship that I had a problem with. I don't know what your beliefs are, but I really believe God put it on my heart to start asking my husband a few questions about his relationship with her. They had done a lot of stuff in front of me--flirting, disappearing on walks together, etc,etc--and he always denied anything going on between them. In fact, I was made to feel that I had a very devious mind to even think such a thing. It only took a few questions (that I don't know where they came from, because I really wasn't even suspicious at that time) and it slowly came out. He had held so tightly onto his 'secret' that he was almost paranoid about anyone finding out at first. He is doing much better now with talking about it. I really went through a really rough time the first 3-4 months and I think at times he thought I was totally loosing it.
As for the OW--she was my friend since we were little kids. Because of various things we have grown apart in the past 10-15 years (probably her & my H's guilty consience). I am planning to confront her about it, but I still don't know what I'm going to say to her. I normally see her around every so often so I know that one of these days I'll see her. She has always looked me right in the eye as if nothing has ever been wrong and asked about the kids and what all happened since the last time we saw each other. So, the next time I see her she will have a mega surprise! Any advice on this?
Tulip,
I was just re-reading this and had to add more to it about the triggers. There have been so many! The OW and I were really close during most of our younger years. We did everything together--shopping, baby pictures, pool times with our kids, you name it. Well, one day about 4-5 months ago, I walked into a department store and almost had a melt-down. We always did lots of shopping together and I could just picture her buying something just for the time she was seeing my H. I had to leave and couldn't do anything except the essential grocery runs for a long time after that, but I have now worked through that. (my H's credit card says 'ouch') I am still carefull about the places where I might see her because I am not quite ready yet to see her. But, I am trying to build myself up for that because I do want to talk to her. I am not sure what to expect from her, because as you well know any friend that doesn't respect the fact that your husband is only your husband and not hers isn't much of a friend.
Re facing your past friend - be clear about what you want to accomplish. Do you want to be friends in the future? I think not. Do you want to remind her of the relationship with your H that she may be well beyond if it ended 12 years ago. Do you want her to know that you know? If so, be clear about why you want her to know. Do you want to set new rules and conditions for your relationship with her and your H? Like, if you see my H or I in public just pretend we are strangers...because you certainly are not a friend. Do you want to yell and scream at her and make a fool of yourself in public?
Be very prepared for this meeting because it will likely happen when you are not expecting it - mondo trigger. Envision yourself, the words you want to say, the energy and the space that you will be in when you deliver the message, and practice, practice, practice. So that when you are done with it you will walk away accomplishing what you need to accomplish.
You may also arrange a meeting with her so that you can be prepared and in the right mindset. I don't know how practiced you are at responding and dealing with triggers. But, I am really bad at it. They can set me back for days. It takes me a couple weeks and serious numbness to even deal with them at all. I couldn't do it on the fly and be a reasonable human being.
No friends involved on my end. I've thought about communicating with the OW but there's nothing to say. She knew he was married, she used him for his money (that he didn't really have) and attention, when he was done with her I assume she replaced him with another. What would I say..."get a life!"? I don't owe her any favors so I won't even give her that advice. Even if she would listen to me and stop considering married men as eligible or her prey...getting her off the street won't matter. There's always another one out there. As my H well proved when he finished with OW#1 and slept with OW#2.
Ahhh....how do I deal with the length of A? Short answer...I try not to think about! I’m really not sure I will ever be able to forgive H for that. I accept it for what it was, but I think we still have a long way to go on that topic. His only answer as to why it lasted so long....(OUCH!!!)... he “enjoyed her company”. But now, I feel that he is now becoming the H he should have been all those years, so as long as that continues, our M will continue.
I believe there was some divine intervention in my discovery also. I had never looked at his email previously, even though his password was written on his computer. I was looking for an email that I knew he had received from another friend with information about an illness in the family. He had already deleted it so I looked in the trash file, which usually automatically empties every day or so. But,there was a whole month of emails in there and the subject line of several to OW caught my attention. If it hadn’t been for that, I probably would never have known; they were very discreet. It boggles my mind that OW could look me in the eye over all that time and never seem to have any guilt about what she was doing. But the same goes for H; he did the same to OW’s H...and to me.
Is your H’s OW still married? I have mixed feelings about how I handled things when I first found out. I think what I should have done is gone straight to her H and told him, but instead I emailed her and told her I knew and that she needed to tell her H before I did. (Not sure why I did that; I don’t think I was thinking too clearly at the time) Later when she still hadn’t told him (mutual friends of ours who we told of A said her H kept mentioning that he was wondering where we were and why they hadn’t heard from us), I went to their home to tell him. She unfortunately was there, asked me “what I was doing”, that she “hadn’t had a chance to talk to him yet” and denied it lasted 15 years. Let's just say, it didn't go well. I lost it, slapped her and left. It actually surprised me (and her!) that I did that; I am not a violent person. It was just too soon to confront her, and my emotions took over. But, now, she’s “afraid” of me; stays away from places she knows I will be, so I’m glad she’s feeling the pain. I still run into her now and then, and she always takes off in another direction. I will not change my life for her anymore. I go where I want to, when I want to. She has done enough damage to my life, my family and friends, and I won’t allow her to hurt me again. While it still bothers me to see her, seeing her squirm is worth it!!
So, on confronting the OW; I'm not sure confronting her in public is going to have the results you might hope for. I fear that if you just bump into her one day, you may not be able to tell her everything you think you need to. You might be better off putting your thoughts in a letter to her. Or, as Hope suggested; you might want to arrange a meeting with her, so that you are not caught off guard. My guess is your H’s OW will not take much ownership of what she’s done. Certainly, if it went on that long, she justified her actions in her mind long ago.
That trigger you mentioned...I’m sure was very emotional for you. It’s amazing the thoughts that surface after being buried in our minds for so long! Things that years ago meant nothing, now have such an impact on our life.
Do you know what ended the A? I think you and I are in rather unique positions in that the PA was over by the time we discovered it. In a way, I think it makes the healing process easier; but unfortunately the length of the A overshadows that.
I wanted to add a belated "welcome" to you. I'm so sorry to hear that circumstances have brought you to this site, but hope that you can find comfort, support and help here the way so many of us have.
I was very struck by the "twist" in your story of the A ending so long ago. In trying to put myself in your shoes, it is at once difficult to imagine how horrible it would feel, and simultaneously, very easy to understand how without a confession on the table earlier, there is an element of the A that lives on in your H's and OW's silence.
On our DDay, a bit over a year ago, at some point in that horrible night, I asked my H what he had expected or hoped to happen. He responded that he thought the A would eventually end and that it would have been so much better if I had never found out, and he could have gone to his grave with that secret never revealed so that I would never feel that pain. Though our recovery to date feels successful, on track and perhaps even ahead of where many others normally find themselves past the one year mark, H still holds onto this sense that it would've been better if I'd never known about the A because of how much pain its caused.
Your real life story is a living example to me of how "just" the secret kept of the A is a continuation of the betrayal. Yes, good for them that they found whatever they needed to do to end the physical portion of it. But how ended can it truly be if they didn't have to face the music or the consequences? How ended is it when there is still a lie between spouses? Your own marriage cannot possibly be all it can be during its lifetime when there is something that keeps you so separated.
I've tried repeated to explain this to my H. And though he understands in concept what I am saying and what you are living, there is still the deeply imbedded notion of safety within compartimentalization.* Certainly, the more that remains hidden or untalked about leads to safety for him in not having to face my anger and for him not to confront his grievous mistakes. I also honestly believe that he wishes there was some way that he could have spared me the pain. Since he wasn't willing to spare me the pain by not having the A in the first place, he is grasping wildly at not sharing the entirety of what happened. But in withholding truth, there is continued pain. It is so very clear in my mind that the life of an A is dependent on secrecy, lies, ommissions. When an A is ended, if there is no revelation or confession or confrontation to the BS, the secrecy, lies and ommissions still exist, still taint and prevent the marriage from thriving, and the life of the A still exists.
Anyway, I've rambled. My heart hurts for your betrayal and the entirety of it, and I understand it completely. Welcome. BlueIris
editted to add: *and that continues to scare the crap out of me!
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
This message has been edited by BlueIris22 on Sep 7, 2007 12:17 PM
BTW: (((((Hope))))) I had not heard of the new realization of OW#2. My heart hit the floor when I read that. When did you find out? How are you? BlueIris
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
I really want to thank all of you for all the different thoughts on a confrontation. Lots of good advice--lots of stuff I hadn't even considered. I really didn't want to set up anything with her, because I don't have a whole lot of confidence in her showing up. I don't want to go to her house--too many memories to confront there. I really want to look her in the eyes and let her know that I know and let her know that she hasn't won. I'm enough of a competiter that I want to let her know that--yes, she gave it her best shot, but it wasn't even close!! She didn't have even a hope of winning! I really don't plan on being very confrontational at all. I don't even want to know too much about her side of things, so I really doubt I'll ask very many questions. I have really been thinking that maybe the one to contact would be her H. He is the one who discovered what was going on and came to my H about it. He never did come and contact me though and that's kind of why I would like to talk to him. It has occured to me that maybe he made some sort of threat to my H that if it doesn't stop he will come to me and maybe that's why it stopped then. My H remembers talking to him, but can't remember anything about it.
Tulip...Your story and your H sound so much like mine! I am so sorry anyone else has had to go through this same pain!! It is just not a good place to be! One thing that caught my attention with what you said--are you sure that your H's OW ever told her H? Maybe I am just too sensitive about that, but I think I would make sure he knows. In my case everyone else knew except me and that has been upsetting. Since she was your friend, I'm assuming you see him too occasionally. It would only take a very little probing to find out if he knows anything about it. I think he deserves to know. Just a thought.
BlueIris...I can tell you from my experience that keeping a secret is not the way to go. We always had this secret wall between us. And, yes, I did feel it strongly. I just didn't understand what it was. Even with all the pain I've been through, I would tell you that to know is much better than not to know. We have lots of times that are very depressing and hurtful, but we have so many more that are very good--in fact, better than most of the past 20 years. I just thought of a way to compare the difference. When you're next to your H in bed and you have lots of covers tucked down in between the two of you, you can feel that there is a warm body next to you. But when you are next to each other and your skin is touching there are sensations in your skin that you simply can't feel with all the covers there. This is really the way it has been for us. I hope this will make sense to you and maybe to your H as well. My C said that as long as there was this secret he had to be very careful about sharing feelings, happenings, etc for fear he would give himself away, so he really built this wall for his self-preservation. Life without the wall is good, because it's real!
You're not being too sensitive about that...I couldn't live with myself and not tell him.....we were all close friends; spent vacations and holidays together...he HAD to be told.
OW's H was at the house when I had my confrontation with her but since she was denying so much, I wasn't sure what she told him....especially when our friends said a couple of hours later that day they went out with a group of people acting like NOTHING had happened. I didn't go out for DAYS after I found out! I wanted him to know the truth and I was pretty sure she wasn't going to tell him everything. So, I wrote him a letter, included a copy of the final email she had written to my H and also asked my H to write him a letter so H could face what he had done. She got to the mail first and opened it. She gave him the letter I wrote and the letter my H wrote, but I don't think she gave him the email. It would have been pretty damaging to what she wanted her H to believe. Worked for her.....he doesn't want to discuss it with her or anyone else...likes playing in the dark, I guess. She has dumped all the blame on him...oh and ME!! And he believes it. OW has not been accountable for any of it....and now she wonders why our friends don't want to have anything to do with her.
I'll bet you would like to know why OW's H didn't tell you what he knew....as hurtful as it is....you should have been told. On that same topic, OW's H told me he had strong suspicions years ago that something was going on, but never said anything to me....or to her. I would have made it my business to find out, but he just pretty much stuck his head in the sand.
One other question....do your children know?
Yes they do. We had a family meeting about it over Labor Day. 2 of our adult children live out of state and they were here for the holiday, so it just worked out. The meeting went well, by the way. My H took full responsibility for everything, apologized to them and asked them to forgive him. They had all known the bare bones about his A for a short time, so it wasn't like they were just finding it out for the first time. We decided ahead of time we were not going to tell them who the OW was or be very exact as to the time period. Our two older children would have immediately known who it was if we would have been that specific. OW also has 4 children and we don't know if they know anything at all about it, so that was why we made this decision. Also, her kids were friends of our 2 oldest, so there could have been chance of maybe running into them at sometime and my kids saying something to hers that they didn't know about.
we were all close friends; spent vacations and holidays together...
I just looked back over this and this just hit me. We did this also. I am so sorry you are also experiencing this! It is the pits of betrayal to know that one of your friends who you trusted so much can turn on you like this. When I think of everything we did together it just sickens me to know that there was an A going on during much of the time we were friends.
First let me say Welcome to Healing Hearts, Messed and Tulip
The first thing I want to say is regardless if the A happened yesterday or 12 yrs ago or 20 years it has the same impact...and you are also suffering a double betrayal because the OW was a so called friend...
I am so happy that your H is being transparent with you..that makes so much difference in the healing process.
My H betrayed me with many many OW mainly ONS's and short A's over a period of 30 plus years ...and then had a year long A..that ended 5 yrs ago. With the help of this board and lots of IC/MC we are doing well.
Stress, insecurity, wanting to be praised, played a great part in his infidelity...rationalization of the A's for him was blaming me..the house wasn't clean or neat, the kids toys weren't all picked up at night.the one shirt he wanted to wear wasn't ironed, all the rest were. MC told me that I could have been perfect and H still would have cheated it wasn't about me...it was all about him.
Seeing signs of infidelity is hard so please don't beat yourself up...you were busy being the wife, mom, cook, cleaner, and all the other jobs...you trusted...you had no reason not to trust.
Just know that the people on this board understand the pain you are going thru and will help support you...
((((hugs))))
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
Tulip, Messed-upM, you have my utter sympathy, I was in the same boat and still am - many years involved, and so-called 'friends'. The betrayal by so many is very hard to deal with, I just got another slap with it recently...and am still trying to sort out between what just feels bad but is probably not suspect and what could be more of the A or another one...
nothing useful to add just now except that I'm in support
<Your real life story is a living example to me of how "just" the secret kept of the A is a continuation of the betrayal. Yes, good for them that they found whatever they needed to do to end the physical portion of it. But how ended can it truly be if they didn't have to face the music or the consequences? How ended is it when there is still a lie between spouses? Your own marriage cannot possibly be all it can be during its lifetime when there is something that keeps you so separated.>
BlueIris…you are so right about THAT!!
<The first thing I want to say is regardless if the A happened yesterday or 12 yrs ago or 20 years it has the same impact.>
Pat....as our MC said: “what affair is the worst? The one that happens to YOU!!” While I do believe that is true....I wouldn’t trade places with anyone on this board. I consider myself “lucky” that I’m not dealing with small children at home, or a WS unwilling to get off the fence, or be remorseful.
MessedupM, Pat and Coventrie: The Double Betrayal is pretty horrific, not only because of what it has done to me, but because of what it has done to so many other relationships. Our friendships were so close….we were almost like family. Our sons are best friends. My H used to take OW grandsons fishing. OW and her H joined us for Thanksgiving just last year at my H’s sister’s house. While our close mutual friends have been a great support to me, their relationship with my H is still strained, and I’m sure will never be the same. I can’t believe these 2 people actually discussed what would happen if anyone found out, and then continued the A for many years. Our lives became so intertwined, it is almost impossible to untangle the “knot”. It probably would have been better if our friendship had fallen apart years ago. It sickens me too to think of all the things we did together over the last 15 years while all this was going on. We went on a cruise with them just as this was all unraveling. I still can’t look at the photos.
MessedupM: Our children know as well, and of course, in our situation, they had to know who it was with. We told our children everything we thought they should know, including the length of the A. I felt they should know what they were being asked to forgive, and I guess really don’t care if OW’s children find out from ours things that they chose not to tell. Lies of omission are still lies. She trampled on my family for so long, I really don’t care what her kids think of her. Just found out yesterday that she also told their children NOT to tell their spouses!! (but they both did anyway) I can see why you wouldn’t want to be too specific with the information you gave them since you don’t know if her kids know anything; that might be pretty traumatic for them to find out from someone else.
It probably would be a better idea for you to talk with OW’s H, even though you would probably love to see the look on her face when she finds out that you know!! Seems hard to understand that your H wouldn’t remember that conversation he had with her H if it meant the end of the A. Seems like that would be something he would remember.
Loved your analogy about the covers and the warm body....so true! It sounds like you’re in about the same place we are. Despite all, we are recovering and taking our belated 35th anniversary trip to Hawaii in 2 days!
Aloha!!
Go to Hawaii and have fun..One of my favorite places to go. I love the Aloha spirit...I always feel happy there because i love the ocean and the mountains, and I love the mai-tai's.
As I re-read my post I noticed that I failed to finish my original thought and that was
finding out about an A hurts the same whether it happened 20 yr ago.12 yrs ago or if you found out yesterday.
The fall out of the A can be likened to a stone thrown into a still pond and you have the ripples that move outwards..it takes a long time for the water to get still again.
(((hugs)))
Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."
