When I wrote for the first time 2 days ago I was feeling pretty sad. So, it was nice to find you guys and know that I have so many more shoulders to cry on.
I need you right now.
Part of what was helping me deal with trying to make this work was knowing that my H had been coming clean about the details of his A. No matter how painful the questions and answers were.
This morning he saw that I had been a little down so before he went to work he wanted to be sure I was OK. I talked and got a lot of those sad feelings off my chest. He hugged me and I felt so much better. While he was getting ready for work another question popped in my head (Do the questions ever stop?). So, I thought to myself this question should be a breeze to answer. Question: Can you please unblock the online cellular phone account so that I can look at it? (I had originally found out about the A because I figured out his login and saw the OW's number all over the place. He was on travel when I confronted him and he had put a block on the account so I couldn't look any further.) I had gotten so much info about the A over the last few weeks that looking at how much he'd actually talked to her didn't seem beneficial to me. I knew he had an A. He came clean. Was determined to make the M work and answered all of my questions. But.....in popped that question: did he really stop all phone conversation with her? So, now I am asking him to unblock the records. He doesn't immediately say yes, he's kinda stumbling over himself. Asking me why. I'm asking him why should it matter why I do, looking at how much he had talked to her will not hurt me any more than I have been already. I just want to see.
**to clarify some background. Not only did he use his cellphone to talk to her for sooo many minutes but he also put her on our plan!!!!!!! So not only could I see how often he was calling her from where but how often she was calling him and from where!***
So, he's acting strange and my flags are going up. My heart is starting to pump fast again and that chant "oh my God" is starting up in my head. I tell him he's freaking me out with his evasiveness. He's trying to calm me down much like during the A days when I was the psycho woman. But, know I am wiser and know there is more to those phone calls. I just have to figure it. So, he finally says sure and follows me to the computer and he's literally right on top of me asking "just tell me what you are looking for?" He logs in and I have to practically push him out of the chair so that I can have control of looking at the account. Telling him again he's freaking me out and is there anything I'm going to see that he should tell me - NO he says.
OK I look at the dates post the A and no there isn't any communication from his cell phone. But I am missing something. So I go back to a date that he was on travel that he said she was not there with him. AND! Well, what do I see but an outgoing phone call from her phone from the same town my H was in! She was not from the town he traveled to. I looked right in his eyes (the "oh my God" chant was starting in my head and my heart was beating faster again) and said : She was there with you! He looked at me for a good 5 seconds which is a long time to look someone right in the eye and he said YES. He immediately went into the pre Dday defensive mode and I knew there had to be so much more he wasn't telling me. Boy was there.
He was so good at taking certain parts of there meetings, minimizing the amount of time they actually spent together. He made it seem like it was more a phone sex thing and that when he met her for the "few times" it was not all that much sexually.
Someone said "lies, lies, and more lies" Again he had lied to me when he could have come clean! Do you know what he tells me. That he trully loves me and so wants our M to work that he felt if I knew it all that I would really hate him and he and I would never be able to have a normal sex life again.
OH Gosh! If I was confused before today what does that make me know. I have been bawling all morning. And now I am actually saying mean things to him where before I didn't want to slam him for being so truthful with me. HA I had 4 weeks to just deal with the fact that he crossed the line and now I have to deal with the fact that he lied to me again and had more of a relationship with her.
I've cried so much today that I am typing this and feeling cold and indifferent.
Is this a common occurance with the best of intentioned H's? This morning I saw it as a completely breach of trust. Right now I'm so cold and indifferent I can see why he justified not telling me but the pain isn't any less severe.
Yes I believe it is a common occurence. But not for your sake, for theirs, CYA. He is in a fog and that does take a while to lift. You are in the beggining stages.
My suggestion to you would be to tell him that there is nothing worse than finding out he lied again. However from what I have read and experienced, the truth does not really come out in one sitting. It comes out over a period of time. That time frame can be different for each couple. Some it may only take days, others years and yet others never find out the entire truth.
Has H given you access to the phone records? You need to have access on your own, not just him signing on and standing over you. You will proabaly obsess over them, which is normal. But if he doesn't give you full access, then you'll obsess that he is still hiding something.
When did he take her off the plan? Just curious.
It is a long road ahead of you and there are those here that can attest to the fact that it does get easier and there is hope for reconcilliation.
Oh, Ellen. This is very familiar ground for me. The other posters are dead on: please let your H know he is doing so much more harm to you and your marriage by "trying to protect you". Its going to delay your healing and your reconciliation and further break down whatever (if any) trust is left.
Sadly, I would also suggest you ask for whatever copies of bank statements and credit card statements exist on the accounts that your H uses.
This thread is bringing back a lot of triggery stuff and bad memories for me, so I'm going to keep this brief. My thoughts are with you; its definitely a one step forward, 12 steps back situation. Hang in there. BlueIRis
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Like Iris I have started to cry just reading your post. I had written a reply to you early but logged off quickly and the post didn't go through and I was glad because I had written about my H seeming to come clean but not come clean and I didn't want you to worry that your H was maybe still lying. I didn't want to project my problems on to you. And, now I am crying for you and with you.
To answer your question. My H did the same thing. He's protecting himself, his shame, and he is also probably protecting you from the pain he knows the truth will cause you. At least that is my experience from my H. But hiding information and lying causes more pain in the long wrong. My H didn't believe that until I had a mental breakdown, threatened yet again to leave him, and told him I was coming to work to get the bills. I think I have the whole story now, but who knows. I know enough. The questions have stopped, though I thought they never would. Or, maybe I'm just tired. Also, my H's A was 6 weeks long. Cell phone bills and Credit card bills and cards sent on flowers give me a pretty good detailed picture of his activity. I do have a few more things to do just to verify.
My H didn't show me the cell phone bills until two weeks ago. I also thought it meant the affair continued. I was a wreck for 4 months of lying. Ami says its the inconsistencies that keep popping those questions in your head. Just keep asking him the questions, try to find a way that works for both of you, try to keep your cool - in my case yelling and crying just shut him down.
That's about all I can give you right now. I get to drive down lighthouse way tonight. That's what I call it - its the freeway with all the little hotels perched along the road that my H met with his girlfriends. I'll be taking some xanax to get through the ride. Or I'll just suck it up, stare those damn hotels down, and own them. Ahhhhh, I think it'll be the xanax. That's my best shot at Affair humor. That's so you know that you can get past all of this...really you can.
Oh...it just hurts so bad right now. The pain must be incredible for you. We've been there and can just tell you that you'll live, it'll soften, and we'll help you through the process. It does seem like your H is wanting to reconcile and it can take time for them to come around.
I'm so so so sorry for you.
Added - you might want to read my post Hope "Update on Phone Bills". Or it might make you barf to refeel the pain. Anyways, you'll get me story a bit there.
This message has been edited by forgandforg on Sep 14, 2007 4:39 PM
Like the others I can only say this is absolutely typical WS behaviour. And they all say it's because they don't want to hurt the BS even more, but really they are terrified if we knew it all we would pack their gear in trash bags and dump it in the gutter. Like BlueIris, what you have written brings back huge triggers for me. The lying continued for three years, justified in his head because he was "protecting" me, he didn't think it was "good for" me to obsess so much over all the details, but in the end he finally realised he was protecting himself. He lied about all sorts of things: the places they had been together, whether they ever slept over, whether he had been with her on a particular trip, sex in the shower and oral sex, anything which was important to me he lied about to give me what I seemed to want. He minimised all the contacts with OW, even down to just recently, 3 years from D-day #1 when I found he was still in contact with her. He told me it was just occasional phone calls; I found out it included meeting up, sleeing over and of course, sex. They will lie until confronted with evidence they can't weasel out of. They will lie, so convincingly, while they think they can get away with it, while they can rationalise that a few convenient lies won't make any difference. In fact they will lie until they fully come out of the fog, leave lala land, totally get it and see that the lies are the worst part of the whole A process. I guess your H isn't there yet, and you will have to accept that it does take time (3 years in our case) to let go of the OW, the A, the idea that what they did wasn't all that bad. I hope your H will have that revelation soon; be ready, because when they do get it, they have hit rock bottom and it's not pretty.
My first post title was "lies, lies, lies"...I told H he should write a novel he lied so much.
I say "lied" in the past tense, but I am still so disgusted with him I find it difficult to believe anything he tells me. His stories during the A were extraordinary.
I do agree with what some of the others said though, his reasons for lying and/or being evasive have to do with not hurting you anymore AND his concern you will send him packing if you know all of the details.
H has said several times he keeps waiting for me to throw him to the curb.
H has been pretty good about answering my questions, but I am cautious about what I ask because some things I just don't want to know. The sexual aspect of his relationship with OW doesn't both me nearly as much as the fact that he had an ongoing emotional relationship with her, that hurts me deeply.
My heart goes out to you during this time of discovery. Even little tiny pieces of information can be painful.
Dear Ellen, Getting ready to go out but just wanted to add my voice to everyone else's - yes, sadly for me, the truth dribbled out over a long, long time. And, I am still not sure I have it all. They just don't get it and think:
-I am too ashamed
-She will hate me
-It doesn't matter
-It will hurt her
Blah, blah, blah.
And boy, do I understand the OMG feeling, the heart pumping, the dizziness. It's a total and horrendous out of body experience.
It gets better but it takes time and be prepared for incredible ups and downs, progress and setbacks. It is a freaky,horrendous out of control rollercoaster.
Will try to write more later. But you are so not alone.
Again I can't thank you enough. It makes me sad that each story told here brings up the memories. I only hope that I can get over these initial humps and be as gracious as you guys have been.
Today was so hard I was like a zombie, exhausted with my emotions.
H took the initiative and scheduled a PM telephonic couseling session that starts in about 7 minutes.
God I can't even stand to look at him.
wish me luck for the after the session when the million and one questions begin again. Lets see how honest he is this time.......
Sadly it is common for WS to withhold information despite BS says honesty is important. Peggy V. described it like peeling off layers of an onion - layers of lies and/or omissions of truth. It takes time and drains energy as well as emotion. 3 weeks after the initial D-day I learned the full extent and length of WS's affair. I told him I was like being drowned twice. Later I asked him how he could have done it even when I said I needed complete honesty. His reply was "truth takes time to come out". The shame and guilt in his eyes conveyed the message that before he could face me, he needed to face himself. He could not face himself as the person who sunk so low.
A very brief history of mine. WS had an affair with a co-worker for 7 months. D-day was 2/14/06. He ended the affair right after D-day. He still works with OW. We are about 19 months (?) past d-day and we are on the road of recovery. It was not easy, but we survived. I survived. Happiness has actually returned (with intermitten sadness and anger, but less and less). You are very early in the healing process. It takes time AND effort on both spouses. Take care of yourself. Think of what YOUR needs are. I truly believe BS comes out stronger and smarter, despite whichever way the marriage may go.
That's my best shot at Affair humor. That's so you know that you can get past all of this...really you can.