I am struggling with something and I would appreciate some feedback.
H is on a sports team that travels. I enjoy attending his games, but sometimes I cannot go due to work or family obligations. In the past, I actually looked forward to having my own space while he was gone and he liked being with his friends. Most of the guys on his team don’t travel with their wives, unless the games are in a place that is fun to travel to.
Over the next 4 months the team will be traveling to 4 different states. I have plans to attend 3 of his tournaments, but I cannot get away in October, and I am really stressing over him going without me.
Those of you who know my story know I discovered H’s A while he was on a 2-week vacation with OW in another country. He hasn’t been away overnight since D-Day. He has been doing all the right things and going overboard spoiling me, but I still have this nagging ache that it is all an act.
Not going is not an option. He is an important part of his team and I understand he needs to go. I suppose if I put my foot down and told him he couldn’t go, he would stay home, but I play the same sport that he does and I know all about making a commitment to the team. It would be like I was punishing all of them for what he did, and they are all my friends too.
I don’t want to act like a prison warden and demand to know his whereabouts every freaking minute of the day. I refuse to live that way. He has assured me OW isn’t going. But, if he is still seeing OW he will just go further underground to keep it a secret.
Also, most of the guys on his team are family oriented and I’m pretty sure it would get back to me if she went along
But…I am still very uncomfortable about him going on this trip without me and I need to figure out how to get past this because I can’t live this way forever.
You are not punishing his team. If he doesn't go then it is his fault for acting irresponsibly. It is not your fault and you may need to remind him of that.
Personally, I think he should be telling you that under the circumstances he is going to stay home. Even if you say its ok for him to go, he should be proving that he is trustworthy and working to earn your trust. Not testing whether you trust him or not or putting you in a situation where you are uneasy. Who's team is he on anyway? Who's his number 1 team? It should be his wife...not his sports team. And, I am a huge sportswoman. But I also believe in focusing on your #1 Team!
Having said that, there are times where travel is necessary and if you truly believe this is one of those times then there are ways that he can reassure you. Here's some things we did when travel was necessary. Mind you....it has not been that long for you - travel is a difficult, difficult thing for a BS to deal with! He should be putting himself in a self imposed prison for 6 - 12 months! Well, that's what I think my H should expect. Sometimes that's just not practical however.
My H had to work out of town 3 days after dday (and I asked him if he cheated on me before he went to a class for work which was actually a weekend with OW#2 and NO CLASS AT ALL!!!!). So another business trip was just WRONG! He gave me a landline which I could verify online was the phone number of the building he was working in. I called at all hours of the night to verify he was there. His team of employees must have thought it was extremely strange that I was calling at 11pm, 1am, and 2 am. He told me that he would make the drive back at night and not stay at a hotel. He was a little new at it, but he did the work of finding ways to prove to me and reassure me that he was not with another woman.
I left my H at our vacation home for a work week. I made sure that someone was staying at the house with him that I could ask if anyone else came to the house while I was gone. We also have webcams at the house so if I had any insecurities I could have had him turn them on in the bedroom and living areas.
The first day I got home and found out his OW had vacationed just 15 minutes away from his work the week before we left on vacation. I called the vacation house and he did not answer the landline or the cell phone. It was horrible. Turns out he was at church, but I ripped him a new one for not being available.
I decided to house sit for a friend for one night. It wasn't that far away and I wanted to drive home, but I also wanted "me" time. We had a land line put into our house. So I called and verified he was there. That's about all I could do. He's proven NC, remorseful, transparent etc so at this point it's like he's going to do whatever, if he does it eventually I'll figure it out and I WILL cut his xxlls off he does it again. He also, could easily suspect that I'd just drive home and check on him or send a pi so I didn't think there was much risk.
Is there anyone on the team that can do verification for you that she's not there, that you trust to tell you the truth? One of the wives that is there? The manager? I was able to ask people to stay at the house so he wouldn't be lonely and because he wasn't feeling well I wanted to make sure there was someone there. You might have to tell someone what happened or come up with some other concern.
Get his hotel land line number and call him 3 times a night at all hours. Do not accept cell phone as the only means of communication.
Get all flight and hotel information.
One lady made her husband call and leave the cell phone line open so she could hear him sleeping ALL Night!!! They had free minutes.
I'm not sure I can add very much but you were so nice to comment on my recent crisis's that I at least had to tell you that I'm feeling for you.
My H unfortunately has to continually travel even after Dday. It is definitely part of his job. Do I freak out - YUP!
Up until I discovered his lying betrayal this morning he had been very good about always checking in when having to travel. I know from his phone logs during the A that he intentionally did not call me and was intentionally calling the OW. But, now he makes a point of calling me every spare minute just to reassure me.
I think Hope brought up a good suggestion to have all his avenues of how to get a hold of him available. Especially being able to get a hold of him in the hotel room would certainly reassure me. Because from what my H reveiled to me tonight - he would never book in the same hotel for a conference that he was attending if "SHE!!!" was going to be meeting him. ALWAYS a different one so he wouldn't be seen by anyone we mutually knew.
So, that being said. I would think that since he's already been caught if he is in the same hotel as all the other sports folks perhaps he may not want to take the chance of getting caught again.
I am so knew at being supportive that I am sure this did not help but I am with you:)
(((((KAREN))))) I am so sorry that you have to deal with your h traveling at this time. I recently had the same tramatic experience. It took place two years after dday but it affected me just the same. While he was gone we spoke on the phone almost the whole time, minuse while he was in meetings. But still there was the times when he wasn't available and I could not get him to answer his phone. The panic set in and I was out of control. I realize now that I had just lost it. Never before would I conduct myself in this manner. It is shameful. And I felt less of a women because of how I acted. I know my H knew what a big deal it was for him to leave out of state. He knew what I would go though. I wish I had handle the situation better than I had. This could be a time for you and your H to reunite gain some sense of reluctant trust(I say reluctant because it's so hard to want to believe). It's so hard to let go of our suspsions. Just think of me and how crazied I was for absoultly no reason. I created a hell for me to deal with. Yes he started all this two years ago. But because I have a problem of trust(which I do not blame myself for) but I do realize where all my inabitions(sp) came from. I just don't want you to end up where I was. Your H is leaving with his team. He doesn't want to embarrase himself or his team. I think with lots of structure the two of you can overcome this too. My prayers are with you. Trust in yourself. Your GUT always knows..
Almost 3 years later and my H still will not go anywhere unless I go with him. In the last 6 to 8 months, I have been telling him he can go various places without me. Still, he will not. (Makes me happy but also guilty.)
Although I love sports, it seems to me that he could give up the team altogether to strengthen your marriage. (Unless, of course, he is a professional.)
Thank you for your support and ideas to help me get through this difficult time.
H is not a professional athlete. H and I both play tournament softball about 9 months out of the year. Most of the time we don't have conflicting schedules, but in October our schedules conflict.
I love playing, love my team and spending time with my girlfriends.
Since H's A is not public knowledge, having one of the other wives spy for me is not an option. I like the idea of being able to call the hotel though.
Laura, I agree about the "reluctant trust"...I am exhausted from playing detective and I want desperately to trust him again.
H doesn't know I am worried about him going to the tournament alone. And I am somewhat torn about saying anything to him because he has been trying so hard lately and he might not go on my account. I also feel like my anticipatory anxiety is a bit premature...maybe as we get closer to the date I will either feel better (or not) and have an easier time bringing this up.
I realize our marriage is more important than the team, but since nobody knows about his A and they are all my good friends too, I don't know what we would give as a reason if he didn't go. Especially since I am still playing too.
The other thing I don't think I have mentioned is H has never really specifically asked me how I found out about his A. He also doesn't know I check the cell phone bill online. I have intentionally not told him my secret detective/spy tactics because I want to see if I really can trust him.
My H was supposedly at a class for work. One of the things that cued me there was a problem was that he answered the phone all the time - normally I don't expect him to answer his phone when he's in a class. On the last visit I called him all the time. I sort of did it to harrass him,reassurance to hear his voice, to ask an honest question. I was still holding out for the miracle of miracles that I was wrong. Through the whole thing I thought at least that he actaully went to the dang class! It was beyond me in the moment to even think he could spend an entire weekend with someone. In any case, he told his OW he was married so he had to take my calls. Answering the phone, especially a cell phone, is not a reassurance to me AT ALL! A land line helps, makes it less convenient for him, at least I've got him trapped in his hotel - but, heck that's where he was with the OW anyway. She just lays quietly and patiently waiting...I'll eventually get off the phone and they can get back to it. But, you gotta take what you can and land line is pretty good. At least if he knows I know where he is and I know his room number that I might just show up at any old time. You could surprise him - do it once and he'll never know if you're going to do it again. That way you don't have to take a ton of time off work. Just invest in the plane ticket and show up one time for one night, it'll be well worth the investment!
Through this process I have learned that my H doesn't think about the A all the time like I do. He looks for cues that things are going well, like I look for cues that he's not cheating on me. So he often doesn't see the things that aren't going so well. Like the constant banter in my head - where are the phone bills, why isn't he bringing them home, does that mean the affair is continuing, but he's with me all the time, he's told me the story, but I can't deny the inconsistency, something is going on, oh god he's still contacting her, them, new ones. I can't take this anymore, if I crash my car and hospitalize myself will he pay attention to me and give me what I need, will that pain override this emotional pain, I can't take this anymore, I'm just going to leave him if he doesn't give me the phone bills. Screw work I'm going to his work to get the phone bills. He doesn't want to deal with this at work. I have my answer the affair has continued I'm going to pack up and go. Oh my gosh how can this be happening to me. Why am I so stupid to trust this man, why do I let him treat me like this, where is my self respect?
With my H I have to be really clear with my boundaries and where I am at. "If you don't bring the bills home tonight, I will pack up and go." To which he says, "I thought things were going fine. I have been working so hard at taking care of you, we have been doing things together, I have answered your questions, I wrote you a long note professing my love, I've thought about the causes of the A and explained them to you, I thought I was doing everything right." Do you see how the lack of communication works, at least in my relationship?
Now I will say things like, "I'm really angry right now about blah, blah, blah. It's ok, I'm sure it will pass." Later, "I'll say, I'm doing fine now." Other times, I will just explain how I am feeling. Like this weekend, "It takes alot of energy for me to go to your truck club meet and see all of our friends. I'm not prepared to answer "so, how's the married life?" I just want so badly to say - its so wonderful, feel the need to say "it's challenging", and end up saying "it's fine" and change the subject. It takes energy to fake that I'm in my first happy year of marriage. It kills me to hear people when they look at you say I've never seen him so happy before, you must be just what he needs, he looks so much better. Now I wonder if its me that does that for you or if the A has somehow granted you some space and peace and happiness that you never had before. I wonder if you've had A our entire relationship since people have pretty much said that since we met. I do get some encouragement that you truly weren't happy in your first marriage and people notice a remarkable difference, so that could be evidence that you did not have affairs in your first marriage so maybe, that means this isn't a historical habit."
I get it off my chest, I don't give him the blow by blow of my emotional swings, but I do tell him where I am at, either by e-mail, verbal, phone, or some people use journals. One of the things I have learned is that I just need to be aware of and communicate my feelings about the status of our relationship more. I do a better job of giving him an opportunity to help, adjust, and take care of me if I communicate where I am at without badgering him about it. It took me a little while to figure out how to do this and to do it without getting angry.
My anxious feelings heighten as the time approaches that we will be seaparte for any period of time - except for leaving for work. When I talk to him about this he tries to do more things to reassure me.
I don't know what to tell you about the phone bills and checking them without him knowing. I had such a hard time with being sneaky and I didn't really have many ways to do it since he's a computer geek and his phones are billed through work. There's always a way for them to accomplish an A. Get a new credit card, account number, identity, use phone cards and pay phones. I guess if I could I'd be doing what you're doing. I wanted to wait a few months to check credit cards to see if he continued, but I just couldn't do it, I asked for them immediately - he didn't give them to me for a long time. Though I forced him to open his accounts one by one for every card in his wallet, he had the one he used hidden elsewhere so I didn't know until much later. Again - "bring home your work credit card bills or I'm leaving. That's when he revealed that the "Hustler" charge wasn't on the work credit card so the entire accounting department didn't know what a sleezeball he was, but that he had another credit card I didn't know about."
But, for what its worth, for various reasons I've been doing the BS thing without NC and with my W occaisionally going out socialising without me (even including the OM being there).
This may end up disasterous yet, because clearly I don't know what has been going on when I'm not there.
However, while at first it is very very uncomfortable, after a while I have found you get used to it a little. Part of my thinking follows these lines;
1) If she wanted to continue the A (or have another one) then stopping her doing these things would not stop it.
2) Getting back on the horse (trust) quickly after falling off may help avoid obsessing and creating irrational fears.
3) Not allowing it has potentially worse consequences.
4) If she wants to continue it and I make it more difficult she will get better at hiding it - rather like MRSA. The last thing I want to do is train her to be more devious.
In your situation, you know that not allowing it is potentially problematic, and so perhaps it is a moment to jump back on the horse. Hopefully your H will be sympathetic to the difficulties this presents, and go out of his way to reassure you - being readily contactable is one of the ones I go for.
I'm not sure how lucid I'm being here, so maybe I'll try paraphrase again:
Either he's taking you for a ride or he isn't, FWS or WS.
WS - Letting him go or notting letting him go probably doesn't make any difference, however if you letting go you have better chance of finding out and it is better to know so you can move on if neccesary.
FWS - Letting him go will be an act of trust and a positive move forward for the M. Not letting him go might distance you a little holding the M in one place.
Like I said - I'm not saying this is ideal, but it gets me through the week.
Good luck whatever you decide - and I hope he lives up to your trust!
Adam, what you said is pretty much how I have been thinking and feeling.
If he is going to continue to keep seeing OW then I might as well know now and get on with my life. My tolerance level is hovering right around zero at this point, so if he continues to see her he can just kiss my you know what.
I am so sick of being a private detective and the more he knows about my snooping capabilities, the more he will try to hide from me.
I am a very no nonsense, practical person and I have no patience, absolutely NO patience for H's shenanigans with OW.
In some ways, this trip may turn out to be a test. He has shown true remorse for his A. If he is still seeing the OW, he has A LOT to lose and he "fails" the test. If he is no longer seeing her, then I get back another level of trust. (Of course, he could still be seeing her and not take her on his trip too).
One thing he has said over and over is I just want our old life back which leads me to believe he is telling me the truth.
This message has been edited by Karenislost on Sep 17, 2007 10:09 AM
Just needed to echo what others have said - we cannot control our WS. If they want to cheat, they will find a way. My fear is that he will get much, much better at concealing and rob me of more of my life. I don't think that will happen today but the future scares me. It is really impossible for me to look at my life one day at a time but I am trying. And, today, H is changed, loving, caring, respectful, remorseful...all the things I want..just wish I could enjoy today and stop obsessing about the past and the future. Seem to be beyond my ability though.
