Newish to posting here, just a recap. Dday 6/2/07, NC immediately then, but a couple of calls received last month, NC told again. 10 month A, out of town.

WS is unsure of what she wants. Says she might want to be on her own and find herself, then recently admits that she feels pain and cannot get over him, misses him. I have been supportive in offering to help work through whatever she needs to work through. I sent a note explaining some issues she may be having with her feelings and how I am sympathetic and available. I said this is a good start to our communication. She told me her feelings then and not what she thought I wanted to hear. I believe this was a big part of our problem, she has been saying what she thought I wanted to hear for years and squashed her opinion. She says she doesn't know what to say, how to respond.

We spend a lot of time together. We act as if we are happy, I guess she is seeing if she'll be happy here with me and our kids. I don't know if I can continue to pretend all is well without a commitment that we will be staying together. If I continue to show love and support, that is all aimed at being together. If I am to be here and support and be friends and then D, then my actions are foolish. I need to keep a distance to protect my heart from getting broken again from the same person so soon. I need to prepare for D since she cannot commit to staying. She only says she is here right now and doesn't know what will happen. I cannot stay in this state of uncertainty.

I say we have to learn to communicate, and she wants to act as if all is ok, but she may leave if she wants. She does not threaten this, but has thought too much about the effect of D on the kids, and is too passe. When I told her I was going to leave the other night, she finally told me about her feelings for him. I do not want to threaten leaving to get her to talk. I do not want to end this without having done all I could to save it. But if it is not to be saved, I do not want to prolong this. I think I will heal faster if I have resolution. Either 100% commitment to stay together, or dissolve the relationship, will help healing.

What is going on with her? Why am I so impatient?

[Edit add-on] I spoke with her again. She tells me that when we are together and acting as if we are okay, we are okay. But, when I talk to her about us, communicating, healing, even helping her, it brings her feelings to light. She then obsesses about her feelings and thinks more about leaving. There is a part of her that wants to stay, but her feelings are keeping her from committing to that.

So here I am. If we act as if all is fine, we're fine for then. If I bring this up, then it drives her away. Do I wait for her feelings to subside before we can start to heal? I asked her this too. We don't know how to fix this. I may go back to writing my diary of sorts, writing to myself to let my feelings out. I fear though if we don't communicate we won't get better. I sometimes go back to the thought and I can't believe she thinks about leaving us.

I told her that I won't leave until I am sure that I have done everything I can to make us work. I don't want to leave and regret not doing everything I could. I don't know how long I'll be able to continue like this, and she is okay, not happy, with that. She is that far gone. I would hope that those statements drive her to feel the same, try to make us work with everything she has before giving up. Who knows.

Some venting, some questions. Any insight is welcome.

Should I direct her to another forum here? She has no one to talk to. She doesn't know how to work through her feelings.

Bud

Bud,

I am sorry you and your wife are both hurting so much. It sounds like she may be feeling overwhelmed.

If she is willing, she can join the Open Board forum. Other FWS post there and can help her with the WS side. It is imperative that she enforce NC with OP because as long as she has any kind of contact with him at all, the fog will linger.

We can all sympathize with your feeling impatient and wanting life to return to normal (whatever THAT is! LOL), but one of the huge keys to surviving this mess is time--and LOADS of it. My H did not want our marriage to end, but I (the BS) felt very ambivalent; however, I promised I would not leave our marriage until I had given us two years to work on healing. At the two year mark, I still had hurt feelings but had decided that I did want our marriage. Don't be in too big of a rush. Remember that she didn't get into her A overnight, it lasted almost a year, and she won't get over it overnight either.

Patience, grasshopper. That is SO easy to write, I know, but so hard to do. Isn't anything worth doing, worth doing right? If you two both do the work to heal and to heal your marriage, you will find that you will have a new and improved marriage, not a patched up OLD marriage.

I know it is so hard seeing her being unable to fully commit, but you can't force her to do so. It is up to her to decide she wants to work for your marriage. That is one of the reasons why this forum is so valuable because we can come here to vent instead of venting harshly to a WS who just might be feeling too guilty and too fragile to withstand the full force of our pain and anger.

Take a deep breath and ask yourself why the rush?

Encouraging fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

edited for typo

Bud

I am so sorry that you are going through this and that your W's uncertainty is causing you more pain.

I can understand what you are going through and what your feelings are because my H said the same things.And it is certainly awful to be going through this but to add on not knowing if tomorrow or the next day your s might come home and say that they are leaving. It's like adding insult to injury. My H told me that he didn't know if he wanted to be married to me anymore while we were talking one night and I felt my world closing in around me and that I couldn't breath anymore. A few days later when I told him how horrible it was to hear him say that he denied even saying it. Talk about confusing. We are now past d-day 3 and to a point where NC is finally in place. He was continuing the emotional part of the affair for 7 months past d-day1 and was still in contact with her when he told me he didn't know if he wanted to be with me. Through all of this I just remained supportive and kept telling him that I loved him and wanted to work through this and build a better marriage.

D-day 3 happened because OW called me to appologize and started telling me some info about the A(basically blaming my H for the whole thing. I know he was the agressor but she kept pulling him to her and giving him gifts and poems). At the end of the conversation she told me my H was still calling her regularly and had in fact called her the day before and at times had asked her if he could stop by to see her. She also asked me to tell him he was a married man with a family and to not call her anymore. When I called my H to confront him with this info( fortunately most of the conversation was recorded on our answering machine) he was devestated by the betrayal of the OW and couldn't believe she would do that to him. Talk about FOG not once did he seem to think about how this affected me or my feelings of betrayal.

When he came home that night we had a long talk and I told him I had to have the whole story inorder to stay and work on our M. So he finally answered my questions and told me how it started and how it kept going. That was one of my requirements for R. He told me later the fact that I was as understanding as I was and sympethic and supportive as I listened to his story is when he realized that I really did still love him and that maybe we really could fix the M.

We are now 3 months past d-day 3 and he is still in the fog and we have our ups and downs but we both finally know that what we want is to make our M work.

If your W talked to him a few days ago that probably stirred up her feelings for him again and since she was never out of the fog to begin with she isn't really thinking in the right frame of mind. All she can compare to the difficult road ahead in your M is the blissful memories of the time with the OM. My H couldn't let those memories go for a long time and it wasn't until the OW betrayed him that he realized that she wasn't this wonderful person that he barely knew.

I have hated it every time that someone has told me this but it takes time for the WS feelings to fade and it takes time for the pain you feel fade and it takes time to recover for infidelity. If you want your marriage to work then be patient with your W and let her know that you are there for her and that you do want your M to work. Are you in counseling? I know that you said that you are spending more time together and that is wonderful it was very important for me to make new memories with my H so that I could think of those instead of thinking about the time he spent with the OW.

You are handling every thing very well considering what you have been through and things will get better but it takes time and a lot of it.

Good luck.
Kelly

Her attitude seems a little bit like blackmail to me. I mean, saying "Don't talk about the status of our marriage or else I'll feel bad and want to end it" seems immature and manipulative.

I think you have to be careful and determine how much of the conditions that lead to the affair were related to marital issues that should have been address and solved rather than engaging in adultery, verses how much of the problems are rationalizations for what she was doing.

If your wife would like to post, the Open Board is the place she should do that. You can find it on the left side of this page. There are many people there who have been the wayward spouse, as well as people who've been betrayed who are willing to compasionately help her understand how to recover the marriage from infidelity. We tend to want wayward spouses to commit to their marriage, but people will work with her for a while to help her do that.

TomJ

Tom,

I too struggle with her rule. Is it blackmail and just a means to take more time together. Is she working on an exit plan. I asked all of these things. I truely believe that she is struggling with her feelings. There are two to three parts of her, part wants to stay, part wants to go be with him, and part wants to be on her own. I asked her if we don't talk, are we just setting ourselves up for failure, but if she will begin to get over him, we can talk then. How long can I wait? Don't know. If she gets over him and then we cannot talk, then that is blackmail, we have problems we cannot overcome. I think I am willing to wait a bit (few months) to see if she progresses, before pressing specific conversations. You all may be hearing from me more as I need an outlet, and it won't be her, as it should be.

Thanks Chris. Unfortunately, my W saw a IC for 5 weeks. They were not a match and she has not returned for any more help. She wanted to be told how to get over him, why she did this, she found nothing in that short time and was unhappy with the C. I really want to do the right things to help us. My note of this morning sent her to a bit of a depression, longing for him and confused about her place. I was really trying to help. Again, this is so backwards to me. I thought she did wrong, was found out, and now should be contrite and do all she can to repair. I am supposed to try to find hope, be comforted, and try to forgive. I do try to find hope, I am not comforted, I do not try to forgive yet. She is remorseful, confused, and unhappy. I wish I could go through my emotions, but that would be selfish. I do that on my own now. I am getting stronger, and less unhappy. '

Thanks to all for sharing and giving me hope and strength.

Bud

Bud:

My wife pursued IC, and we have not pursued much MC. I agree that infidelity is a result of issues of the WS, much more than issues of the marriage. In my wife's case, her primary issues boiled down to a lack of integrity, particularly in being open and honest (and not lying). She allowed her fear of people's reaction to her being open and telling the truth to prevent her from sharing very important events in her life and feelings she had.

I don't know if this is really true, but it seems to me that most WS will be found to have some integrity issues, but not necessarily more than those who don't commit adultery. I say that because while great integrity can keep you from committing adultery, lack of integrity won't cause it. A person also needs an opportunity. The less integrity, the more likely a person will create an opportunity.

You wife's attitude in recovery is somewhat perplexing to me. She seems indecisive about what she wants, or she seems to be using her "option" to control you. I honestly don't know what you should do that will get her to commit to the marriage. Of course, one approach is to force her to make a choice (i.e. separate) in hopes that she will see the error of her ways and return to the marriage. Another approach is to be patient and let her come to her senses with a confrontation. I'm not sure what I would do if I were actually in your situation, although I tend to think I'd force her to make a choice.

It seems wise to encourage her to find a new counselor, one that will help her work through her issues. However, if she doesn't believe she has any issues to work on, then that will be an uphill battle.

In that case, it might be more important for you to understand what situations you are willing to accept to maintain the marriage. For example, you might consider how long will you tolerate her weak commitment, what feelings toward the OM will you allow and still consider reconciliation, etc. Although I don't consider that her adultery is due to anything you’ve done, you might also look at what behavior you might be engaged in that lessens your marriage relationship. For example, you could be invalidating her in conversations by not listening to her opinions, or by not valuing the experiences she shares with you.

Given that she seems willing, you might consider attending a marriage conference, such as Retrovauille or Marriage Encounter. These can be great for cutting through all the noise and getting down to the basics of what is needed to make a marriage work. They also can help you reconnect to the feelings that you both had when your relationship was new.

TomJ

Great advice as always Tom

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Ami said she didn't believe that communication was over, she was right. W lied about the phone calls. I said to her I thought she was still in contact with him. She said she hasn't seen him since June. She did talk to him a week ago. She said it was not a relationship contact, only "how are you doing". Too bad. I told her from the beginning that I would work on us and support her, but only if she was not having contact. I told her the lies and contact stop now or I leave now. I cannot continue like this. She said she has found some things to read on the net finally about our situation and all say it is too soon for either of us to decide on anything. I said that is for people committed to healing, and I would not tolerate her still talking to him. If she cannot send a NC letter and live with it, I would D her now.

This was all on Saturday. She said she would write the letter, and did on Sunday. She showed it to me and was to mail it on Monday. Sunday and Monday, she has been very different. She told me Saturday she is committed to us, 100%. She is acting as if this is so. She is trying so hard. But now I wonder if she is acting, covering her tracks or genuine. I was prone to trusting her up to a week ago, but her revealed lies cause me to doubt. I don't know if she mailed the letter. I don't know if she'll continue contact. I don't think I'll stay if I uncover continued lies.

She may be genuine. She may be in survival mode and covering. Now I have to have some patience and be so wary. This is no way to live. We can make it if she is genuine. I won't stay if she lies.

Bud

ALthough it's heart breaking for you to find out she has been in contact with him, and it a kind of setback, it is also a major step forward given the facts of the situation. In addition, I think it was important that you clearly define your boundaries with her.

It's likely that the OM will want to respond to the NC letter. Be on the lookout for that. Let's hope that going forward she maintains her commitment to you and her marriage.

TomJ

Bud - It is EXTREMELY unfortunate that your W chose to continue contact...even if it was limited to phonecalls. The fog definitely plays with the notion of justifying behavior and compartmentalizing what can be construed as "no big deal" (i.e., just a phonecall). But we BS know that NC = NC. It is very black and white. There are no shades of gray. There are no forms of limited contact that are no big deal.

That said, I think this situation has put you clearly in a place to see your boundaries and state them to your W.

Previously, you talked with your W so respectfully for the pain she was dealing with, but her pain over OM was a continuation of the disrespect she was showing you and your M. Though your intention to give her space to work through her emotions were great, I believe it gave her too much room to stay in her fog. She needed to clearly hear and see YOUR line in the sand. I think she has snapped to attention because you are respecting yourself and your M and you've told her that she can do the same, or you are gone. Its a very clear and straightforward message.

I'm wary that you did not either see her mail the letter or did not ask to go with her to mail it or something along those lines. But as BS, there are a lot of things we sadly remain wary of, because there are no true safeguards to control either our spouses or the OP. In other words, if they really want to get in touch with each other, there are too many ways to do so.

So, from here, my advice would be to just watch closely. Behavior is a better indicator than language...especially at the early stages you are in (though, frankly, at 14 months from my own DDay, behavior remains what I rely on as our marriage fidelity barometer).

Internally, you've been through the wringer. Sadly, I think we spend a lot more time talking here at HH to the female BS about taking care of themselves, but I'm hoping that you also are making sure you are physically attending to yourself. Try to eat, sleep, exercise. All of what makes us physically well becomes much more important during this time period, because BS are functioning in such a traumatized state. We need ALL our resources to be functioning to make sound decisions. And when we've learned our spouses have not been attending to our marriages, I think it becomes much more important that we don't forget what we can do to nurture ourselves during this time. Hope that all makes sense.

I wish you well. I am keeping my fingers crossed that your W has gotten snapped out of the fog and sees the forest for the trees now. What she does from here, is very important. Be forewarned that a WS's journey out of infidelity is often not a straight one. That doesn't mean that they continue to cheat. However, they often don't easily let go of excuses, deflection, avoidance, lying...and the slew of other bad behavior that led and fed their way into and through the A. You'll have good days and bad days of your own. She will, too. This journey takes an unfathomable amount of patience. God speed. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

My WS has also been particularly demanding and fragile, so I know a little how you feel, although I should say my W has never talked of leaving - even during the A.

All I found I could do was try and look after myself as best I could, and roll with it. Pushing doesn't really get you anyway, and probably just does more damage, but be careful not to burn yourself out making all the effort. Let it coast for a while. If there is anything you can try do to simplify life then I would also suggest you do that - the fewer distractions the better (unless they are good distractions).

My W is currently having a very very rough time with work (I think she is being passed over for promotion which is going to hit her really hard) so she needs me to be there for her. It is difficult to do, but in the end you have little choice if you love someone.