My H is an alcoholic, now sober for over 2 years (stopped drinking right after D Day). We are well on our way to recovery. I am one of the "lucky" ones with a remorseful H and a better M than I had before, though the pain is still there and can be very sharp at times.

As part of AA, which H attends weekly, it is suggested that you make amends to the people you have hurt or harmed. We had a long talk about whether or not he should make amends to his OW. Most were young, stupid girls that worked for him and he feels he took advantage of their youth and his position. Part of him wants to apologise for that.

At first, I thought it was a great idea because I took it as an opportunity to humiliate them ("I was using you for my own selfish needs and I am sorry" suited my purposes just fine.) Then, I re-considered:
-I don't want to raise the dead - he has not had contact with any of them for over a year and I don't want to get all the craziness going again. NC is NC.
-I don't think they deserve amends. They actively and aggressively pursued a relationship with a married man.

He has mixed feelings so we agreed that he would not make contact.He is really fine with that. What do you all think?

Interesting question, Susan! We've tried tackling something along these lines, because I've asked, and H agrees, that he owes OW's H an apology (at the very least). That said, H refuses to make contact with him, citing reasons about breaking NC...it could only create more problems, retaliation perhaps by OW, the list goes on and on. The man doesn't want to go there.

However, your situation is different: the notion of making amends to the OWs as part of the 12 step program definitely flies in the face of NC and how much we all talk here about the dangers of that. I'm wondering if H could benefit by making amends to the OW's by either (a) just writing the thoughts and feelings out without intent of sending them and/or (b) making a pledge of money and/or time to a charity that focusses on women and women's needs, i.e., battered women's shelter, breast cancer.

I know its an imperfect solution that doesn't really address facing someone directly. However, if we look at an A as its own addiction and compare it to alcoholism, one wouldn't make amends by talking with the bottle. Though H certainly used the OW's, they were more the substance of abuse rather than a victim.

I think its best to not go there and to find a different way for him to live honorably and decently in the world by giving back to it - - that's the best amends he can make (after making his amends to you). Hope that helps! Hope you're well! Blue

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

I have to agree with BlueIris on this point.  Assuming that OW knew he was married they were willing participants in a relationship based on infidelity and were not deceived or harmed unwittingly.  In my mind  that does not make them victims and amends to them are not in order. 

The only scenario that I would only consider amends in order would be if they were not aware H was married upon entering into the relationship AND once they found out they immediately ended the relationship.  Only in this case I would view them as victims that deserved amends.

Susan,

Assuming the OW were over the age of 18, he owes them nothing. They are adults and responsible for their OWN behaviors. I am a firm believer in NC as well.

But as to the apologies idea, I am in full favor of it (sans OW or OM). My H made short phone calls and apologized to all persons who comforted me, consoled me, and supported me. He apologized for any discomfort his A had put them through.

It was very healing for my H, for me, and our friends/family. That was 6 months ago, and it was a positive step on our road to recovery.

Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

No amends to the other women, imho. That step CLEARLY states that the person make an amends only do so when it would not hurt themselves or another person. I think that having contact again would be harmful to you. (just knowing he was speaking to them, and the can of worms that would open in your head).

He can make amends in another way, like being extremely kind and full of integrity and boundaries with young women he crosses paths with today. Brainstorm other ways he can do these amends. Contact is not a good idea in my opinion.

Hopearoo

Hope!!!! SO good to see you again. I have thought of you often and hope you are making progress. It certainly seems so. Thanks for your thoughts - totally agree with you.

I agree with Hopearoo, that "amends by proxy" are called for in situations like this. NC is too critical an issue to allow wiggle room. In my opinion, it relates to with connecting with her & feeling remorse aimed at the wrong person. She may take it as a sign to try & strike up the band again & play on his sympathy.
BB

No reason to open up the door to a sexual harrassment lawsuit - he could be personally liable for that, just one more issue for you to have to deal with. As others said, likely they do not perceive themselves as victims. More like vixons. For you, just let it lie. For him, he's just going to have to deal with it.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful responses. You have all said what we have agreed to do - NC and look for ways to make amends in other ways. We both agree that I and our children are the ones that were most hurt and deserving of amends.

Regarding sexual harassment suits - it was an issue we talked about in the early days and found out that there is a one year statute of limitations (in NY at least), meaning that suits cannot be brought after a year from the harassment.

What is still shocking to me is how much H was willing to risk during his A years - he was well aware of the possibility of sexual harassment and worried about it, even at the time. He was President of a medium sized company and very visible and well known in his industry. The shame and publicity would have been staggering - yet he still couldn't stop himself. A's are very much a drug and WS are addicted. They just don't care about the consequences - all that matters is satisfying themselves and their addiction. I am so glad it is behind us though still, at times, fear its return. I know-time, time, time.

Hi Susan, I know I am a bit late but I am not a reader of all postings these days.  I read the responses and I am now at the 2 years post d-day time.  My wife was also a younger woman who was exploited by an older boss.  She was not the only one.  I am also not saying she was not to blame.  But I can see she genuinely sees her behaviour as superficial and selfish.  She can also see now his clear and exploitative actions which formed a pattern.  It must be awful for her to see what she has destroyed and also to see how foolish she was.  So.. this is background.  Her boss (OM) did write to me after D-day and apologise and, although I found it tough to take in at that time, I appreciate it now.  More than this it would be better now for my wife if he did offer his apologies to her at this stage.  I feel it would show a sign of a truly repentant man (and I am not sure he was/ is).  More than this it would restate calmly something that might restore some sense of self-esteem back into my wife.. who started with little and has not really recovered from an even lower place even now.  I would, of course, be guided also by Hope's wise words of acting in a way that is not harmful as best you can and know.  But, I would vote for a contact, at a distance, and a sincere and simple apology.  It seems to me that the AA advice would be healing on balance for both sides - Of course you never know but we would never try to ease harm and hurt if we all decided to play safe.

may you be safe and well, contented and happy

Just curious Jerry,

Your points were well taken, but does it work for your W also? Should she not apologize to the OM for entering an adulterous relationship with him? And also to his family? This is about personal responcibility, is it not?

Personally, I am not for contact. At least not now in the marital, and BS healing. Maybe, further down the road. I know I wouldn't have a problem with my H apologizing to the OW at this time, but it was a long time for me to get to this point. It was enough for me early on that he saw the damage he did to her and her family. Keep in mind this no way removes her responcibilty for her part.

Ami

Susan

I know I am late answering, but wanted to jump in. I do remember one thing I have heard in another 12-step program in regards to amends.

I was at a meeting one night when the guest speaker was talking about that step and making amends. I wish I could remember his exact words, because they were very powerful, but I cannot, so I will paraphrase as accurately as I can. He said that making amends is a very important step, but that it had to be done practically and responsibly. Sometimes making amends was not possible. Sometimes the harmed person was no available (deceased, etc). Sometimes making contact would cause more harm than good, either to the person or another person harmed (such as the spouse). He actually talked about doing additional and new harm, for example to your spouse or one of your children by attempting an amend to a person in your past.

Maybe this is a situation where contacting OWs, who are in the past, would do more harm than good to YOU, someone who has certainly been harmed by his behavior and this would be new hurt.

Again, I am paraphrasing, but I think I got pretty close to his point.

Good luck!

JL
edited to add

My WH and the OW risked much as well. Workplace affair, she was both our bosses. Small industry, he has had difficulty finding and keeping a job since. They risk health, financial security, family relations as well as their M, but it does not seem to matter. The A is more important than all of that. Sounds like just another form of addictive behaviori to me!

Thank you for all of your responses. In the end, I have decided that OW do not deserve amends. They entered knowingly into a relationship with a married man - no one forced them - and, in fact, they were quit aggressive. They may have been young but not too young to know that what they were doing was wrong. H should have known better but that does not mean amends/apologies are called for. H is fine with that. I do feel better that this was an issue that we discussed and worked out together.