I haven't posted in a long time because I was having a hard time bringing myself to write/talk about the last year. My head is just spinning this week. I can't believe I don't feel much better now than I did then.

One year ago tomorrow, my husband was out of town at a conference and had asked me to design his office Christmas cards. The papers with all the specs were in his car. They weren't immediately apparent, so as I went through a stack of papers that he had, I came across a card. Should I open it?

Since the summer before, I had suspected that he was having an affair. He was rarely home, was always sneaking around with his cell phone, attended parties, etc. without me. I confronted him about a week after his birthday that year, which had been in September. I had finally looked at his phone and saw the calls to "Donna." I asked who she was. He denied having an affair, but said he felt we were "estranged." He blamed me, of course. From September to November of last year, I bent over backwards to try to repair our relationship. He hadn't been making any more calls to "Donna", which was good news and bad: it seemed likely she was an affair partner, but at least he wasn't calling her. But he refused to be intimate with me. He told me he was "still mad." Just before he went to his conference, our daughter went on a week-long class trip. He had originally scheduled his trip to overlap that, but I managed to get him to change it and be alone with me for three days. I had high hopes, but he kept avoiding any physical contact. We went to a lot of movies! The morning that he left, I aked him if I should just pack up and be gone when he got back. He acted as if he didn't have any idea why I'd say that.

So, back to the card. I opened it. It said, "Hey Guy - I know where you can get a hot, steamy shower and a nice rubdown on your birthday..." It was signed, "Love, Donna." I could feel my heart pounding in my chest. I kept looking and there were more things: he had a box full of clothing so he could change at any time. He had gone to her mother's funeral (but didn't go with me when my godfather died). I ran in to the house to call him, but no answer. It took hours before he called back. I told him what I found and he finally confessed to having a (mostly) EA. I asked him if he still had feelings for her and he said something lame like "You always have feelings for the people you have been close to." Then he let me stew alone at home for days, only calling a few times. Later, I found out that he had been on the phone for hours with women "friends." (Not Donna, though). The following Saturday, he came home, and it was MY BIRTHDAY!!

We've been on a long road since then with curves, hills and valleys. But the bottom line is, here it is the weekend before my birthday and I'm still asking for intimacy (physical & emotional) and not really getting it. Although he has tried, he still doesn't fully understand my pain. I have been reading other posts here and I can really identify with all your situations. I just wish I were further along. I'm not saying that he hasn't made any efforts because he has. He just wants to pretend as if everything were fine and it's not.

Thanks. I just needed to rant.

Lynda, I am so sorry you are still in such turmoil. That first year is a nightmare of epic proportions - surreal, painful beyond words, confusing, dis-orienting, exhausting.

I think that most WS want to move on, forget the past and I can understand that -who would want to face the shame and the hurt they caused. I have spent hours explaining to H why it is important for me to go over and over everything so that I can understand what happened and incorporate it into my reality.

Do you feel that your H is remorseful? Is he looking at why he was able to give himself permission to be unfaithful? Is he taking responsibility? Is he prepared to help you through this to the best of his ability? I found that MC was critical in helping me answer those questions. Have you been to MC?

In the end, however, this all sucks and D Days suck the worst. In fact, my best friend is "celebrating" 9 years post D Day today. I am encouraged because she says that most of the pain is gone, though on D Day anniversaries, she still feels angry.I hope you get through with dignity and grace.

May I be blunt?

Your situation rings similar to mine...to many points.

I would suspect your H had not only an EA, but a PA as well. And I would add he still is.


This, of course, is in my distant, and very humble, yet experienced, position...

I am pained for you. It hurts like He%#!

But after 2+ years of the same thing, we have come through...or at least, coming through it. But it took RADICAL HONESTY and willing partners to restart what we had once lost.

Best of luck.



Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

Susan,

You are right; I understand WS wouldn't want to face up to the pain and shame. I think that is probably the biggest reason my H acts the way he does. And he feels like a failure, especially compared to his very successful brother, for example. (But that's something for psychotherapy -- which I think he needs)!

I do feel that he is remorseful, but even though he continually says he is taking responsibilty, I don't think he really is. And he is too busy being defensive to truly help me. We couldn't go to MC due to financial problems, but I just made some extra money and I've told him this is what I want to spend it on. He has agreed, and I do think he will benefit, although when I asked him what he wanted to get out of it he said, "clearer communication." I found that funny because I'm not sure if he realizes that HE is the one who doesn't communicate.

JJ,

I appreciate your bluntness. I, too, think that his A was physical, although he has continually denied it. I don't think he is still seeing her -- or anyone, because I really don't believe he could live with himself. (also, he has been very good about being home all the time and being accountable for his whereabouts, phone calls, etc.) I think the problem with us now is that he doesn't like himself or how he thinks I see him. But he needs to get past it because he's the one who made the choice and now it should be up to him to make ME feel better!

His is just insensitive. You won't believe the conversation we just had. He KNOWS that this is the D-day anniversary and he KNOWS how I found the card. I was hoping he would say something comforting to me. But instead he said, "I wanted to ask you: will you take care of my Christmas card?" Can you believe he asked that TODAY?! Also, a couple of weeks ago he told me he was planning something special for my birthday. He hasn't mentioned it since, but I was hoping he would take me out of town or something. He just told me that he won't be available the one weekend between now and January that we could go. It didn't occur to him that I might be upset. He also told me that he has a "gala" that he is going to -- without me. (OK JJ, maybe you're right). I got upset and then he said, "Oh, do you want to go?" OK, I'm ranting now, but I just can't freaking believe this.

((((((((((((Lynda)))))))))))))

I am so sorry you are still feeling so much pain. I am going to also be blunt. The pain is telling you something. Listen to it! Like JJ I believe he is still in some sort of fog, and possibly still in the A in one way or another. There are many ways to remain in the fog. Even if he has made some efforts, they sound half-hearted. Also from experience, when my WH's attempts were half-hearted I found out he was still having the A. After more than a year of being accountable for his whereabouts and so on, and nothing really changed or got better in the relationship I finally hired a PI and got the proof my gut was telling me. EVERYTHING else checked out...but my gut was telling me otherwise...it took me a long time to listen to myself...but I am glad that I finally did and finally found out the truth. If things do not improve on the part of the WS's behavior or attitude in the marriage, then something is definately wrong.

Is he in IC? If not, it sounds like he really needs to go. Even if the A is not going on and he is struggling with his own issues, it can help improve the marriage.

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

This thread has totally reminded me of where I was 10 months ago. Having "survived" 2 Ddays with my H, I BELIEVED he was no longer attached to the A or the OW.


Then...that fateful day, I was chatting on HH with Ivory and she asked some SERIOUS questions...and said something very similar to Cal's comments...listen to your pain, your heart, your experiences...what do they tell you?

I denied it at first that morning. I told her we were struggling, but H was being honest. After all, we had gone through MC and IC. He was accounting for his time away...even once I trailed him! I so wanted to believe it was over.

And then...there was that one lingering thought...what if...

And that's when I discovered D-day 3. I was SHOCKED! I had thought he had been being truthful with me!!! He had just learned better how to manipulate all my fears, and how to lie directly to my face.

Ugh. That's my memory of January 7, 2007. Sigh. Bigger sigh. I am so glad we have moved past that horror.

And that's just what the almost three years of his A were: horror, pain, torment, anxiety, doubt, distrust.

And you know what? It was for him, too.

Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

You guys are freaking me out! I don't think he is still having A, but I'm not sure he is back because he really wants to be or because he is doing what he thinks is the right thing (although he SAYS he wants to be with me). I certainly feel that he COULD have another A if someone comes along. We got in another huge fight last night and he accused me of sabotaging our relationship because I continue to rub his face in the A. I don't believe I'm doing this. I am just hurting and brought up the D_Day anniversary. He said it is not something to commemorate. All I want is for him to say/explain things to make me feel better, but any time I bring anything up we have a huge fight. I would hope that MC would help referee the fights; I'm just not sure at this moment that I want to invest the time. I'm getting pretty sick of it. But we have a daughter and are not in a financial situation to have 2 households right now (another reason he feels like a failure).

Today sucks.

<<You guys are freaking me out!>>

No one is trying to freak you out. Im sorry. We were trying to be honest, not freak you out. This has been my experience and JJ's experience, and the experience of many of the BS's on this board, having more than one d-day. I remember how my heart would sink every time another BS's posted d-day number 2, or 3, or 4, or more. I never thought I would be counted among them. No one is saying that he is cheating...however, we want you to be well aware that it happens and it is common to have more than one d-day.

<<I don't think he is still having A, but I'm not sure he is back because he really wants to be or because he is doing what he thinks is the right thing (although he SAYS he wants to be with me).>>

That's just it. It's a gut feeling. You feel he is there but not really there, or not there for the right reasons. I got that same sense too. You have to ask yourself why you feel this way? More often than not it is just a feeling, but sometimes it is a true lack of remorse from the WS or lack of truly doing all they can to save the marriage, whether they are being accountable for their whereabout or not, something just doesnt fit or feel right. You get the feeling that you are just back up and the WS is doing the minimum to keep you on the hook. that is how it felt for me anyway...I am not saying it is the same for you. I can only go by experience, as can anyone.

<<I certainly feel that he COULD have another A if someone comes along.>>

This means the trust really hasnt been rebuilt to an acceptable level where you feel safe in the marriage. Again, you have to ask why not? If he has not changed his behavior of course you are going to feel he will cheat again. It is his job to rebuild the trust because he is the one who broke it. Sounds like he isnt doing that. The fact is you may feel this way for a long time, until you see consitant change over a period of time. That is how real chage is measured...by time!


<<We got in another huge fight last night and he accused me of sabotaging our relationship because I continue to rub his face in the A. I don't believe I'm doing this. I am just hurting and brought up the D_Day anniversary.>>

His reaction would be a red flag to me. A truly remorseful WS would undertsand the distress you would feel around the d-day anniversary, and would comfort you, not attack you for your feelings. This would bother me as well.

<<He said it is not something to commemorate. All I want is for him to say/explain things to make me feel better, but any time I bring anything up we have a huge fight.>>

A truly remorseful WS would anaswer all of your question no matter how many times you ask and would answer them consistantly,a nd without blaming you. You need answers, and he should put aside his own pain and guilt and give you what you need, and provide you with answers. I am sorry but he doesnt seem to get it.


<<I would hope that MC would help referee the fights; I'm just not sure at this moment that I want to invest the time. I'm getting pretty sick of it. But we have a daughter and are not in a financial situation to have 2 households right now (another reason he feels like a failure).>>

I dont see how MC would be a waste of time if you really want the marriage to work. We all get sick of it, and sometimes we take a break, but we get back in the ring and fight for the marriage if it is worth fighting for. If not, finances aside, why are you there? You have to ask yourself the hard questions. We all have fears..financial, the kids, and so on...but what really keeps someone in an unhealthy relationship is fear. We have to really look at those fears and dispell them. We have to learn to face our fears in order ot get past them. I know that is a lot easier said than done and you have to be to a point where you are ready to face them. Maybe you are just not ready, and there is nothing wrong with that. We all get where we get in our own time.

<<Today sucks.>>

I am sorry you had such a bad day. I hope tomorrow will be better for you. (((((((HUGS))))))



~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

>any time I bring anything up we have a huge fight. I would hope that MC would help referee the fights; I'm just not sure at this moment that I want to invest the time. I'm getting pretty sick of it.

Research has shown that the succuess of a marriage is closely related to how a couple handles disagreement. It's not if the discussion is emotional or calm, but rather if the couple respectfully listens to each other's perspective and share's their own on issues of conflict. You can find these results on Smartmarriages.com. Here's a link to the article http://www.smartmarriages.com/divorcepredictor.html

TomJ

Tom,

Thank you; that was a good article and I've printed it out to share with my H. <<rather if the couple respectfully listens to each other's perspective and share's their own on issues of conflict.>> This is a problem for us. I imagine he feels guilt and is thus very ddefensive, so he can't handle listening to anything I say about the A.



Cal,

First, thank you so much for all the time that went into your post. I really appreciate it.

<<This has been my experience and JJ's experience, and the experience of many of the BS's on this board, having more than one d-day. >>

My H was not honest about his A, so I had to discover things in dribs and drabs, which felt like multiple D-Days. Then I discovered that throughout our supposed healing time, he had spent hours a day on the phone with a woman he knows in another state. He REALLY does not get how this upsets me (almost) more than the original A because I feel robbed of his time and attention when I needed him most. He stopped the calls as soon as I found out about them, but shouldn't he have realized that he was crossing a line? So although I truly believe he would not INTEND to have another A and feels horribly guilty about what he has done, I feel he needs to address why he is susceptiple to that kind of influence. Does it make him feel important, successful, attractive, etc.?

<<You get the feeling that you are just back up and the WS is doing the minimum to keep you on the hook.>>

That's how I feel, but H feels he has done everything he can and should. He doesn't understand how the BS world is turned upside down.

<<It is his job to rebuild the trust because he is the one who broke it. Sounds like he isnt doing that. The fact is you may feel this way for a long time, until you see consitant change over a period of time. That is how real chage is measured...by time! >>

RIGHT!! I tried explaining this to him: I trusted him completely before this, to the point of being STUPID! I didn't complain when he would "work" all the time, see his friends, play tennis, etc., because I was being supportive. He says that made him feel like I didn't want him around!! So now what? I ask him to account for every move? I know he resents this, but I'm damned if I do or don't.

I know that from the face of this, my H seems like a jerk. The sad thing is that prior to this, he was such a great guy. A truly stand-up guy that I (and everyone) could depend on. At least that's what I thought. I don't know how to reconcile the two personalities. He keeps saying that he just got "lost" for a time. Can that be true? Is his immaturity and lack of judgement permanent or was it temporary?