I'm pretty hysterical this morning - yesterday seems like a blur, a nightmare - i don't even know what happened. H and I went out to dinner the previous night, woke up and walked downtown to get coffee. We came back home and sat on the couch. H started talking about Christmas - said he saw the tress going up, all the sappy jewerly commercials on tv - said he didn't want to see us ruin this holiday etc etc

He talked and talked in circles. I honestly did not know what he was saying. At one point, I asked him - are you saying that you need to step up? That you want to take the next few weeks to STRENGTHEN our relationship so that we can salvage the holidays? I couldn't even work out what he was saying.

After HOURS, he then started coming to the point that the last 3 weeks at home had been awkward and he knew he wasn't stepping up and that he realized that he was not here for the right reasons. I told him that I couldn't keep doing this. He said that he knew - and that today "was it", the "day that would change our lives forever" because if he left, he would not come back.

Rambling, rambling - i was like ARE YOU LEAVING? What are you doing?!? What are you talking about? Finally - yes, i'm leaving.

I guess it's partly my own fault for letting him come back home after 5 months without getting a committment from him. But, come on - to take the step to move back home - i thought that was significant - and then to leave only 3 weeks later - pathetic.

So - where i need advice. I'm a mess today. Of course, H did not take all this things when i left the house last night to give him time to collect his things. Yes, theres things in the closet that would take some time to pack up - but the man left his sneakers in the middle of the living room floor. What is THAT all about?!? What is he playing with me?

I don't know if i should let things cool off before i do anything with this stuff. Yesterday honestly feels like a giant blur. One minute i was sitting down in a cafe eating breakfast with H and having a nice conversation, then we're talking about Christmas trees, and then H is leaving and never coming back!??

I don't know if i should call him this morning and say come get your crap -- I also had a thought about packing up everything on my own, driving to his parents house and leaving it all on the lawn. Would that make me feel better? Like I'm taking control of some of this situation? I don't want things to get ugly but i really feel like my H is f***ing with me. To move back home to move right back out?? To say this is it - for me to GIVE him time to pack up and for him to leave things around the house??? What is that all about?

I'm looking for advice because I'm not sure if i'm in the best state of mind this morning. I don't want to cause myself any needless extra heartache -- think dumping his stuff off at his parents house would be a bad idea?

NO don't dump at his parents they will have a field day with that behavior...as good as that would feel for you.

Call a friend and pack up his stuff...and ask friend to deliver it...this is the time to be a bigger person...be in total control..

MY other thought
just leave his stuff outside in the garbage...he had his choices...he packed what was important to him....

You don't need his stuff in your space today.

DO NOT CALL HIM...just move on with your life...change the locks on your apt today.
Next cancel any credit cards with his name on them so you don't get charged with having to pay his bills.
check your bank info and have him removed from your account or open a new acct in your Name only.
Call a lawyer first thing in the morning

Pat
"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

I agree, thanks! - i came to that same conclusion this morning. I have been packing up his things. I just sent him an email saying that i will leave the house for a few hours today and that i expect him to come get his things. The quicker i can get his stuff out, the quicker i can start to heal and put this nightmare (somewhat) behind me.

I don't really want him in the house by himself but at the same time, don't want to make a spectacle in our nosy neighborhood by putting ALL of his things on the porch. Sigh.

I would ask a friend to drop it off except his parent's live 2 hours away. That would've been a good thought though.

I hate my life.

Leaving stuff on the porch is OK. he doesn't need to be in your space.
.he left..so he can pick up his stuff off the porch...your neighbors will support you if they chat..

Oh, dearest Ka. I am so very sorry to hear what's happened. Its a very difficult place to find oneself when one begins to see the person we love and have given our all to, get swallowed up by all their flaws till there's nothing left in the room but their sneakers and the breath they expelled when they said goodbye. The amount of energy and love you invested in your M was without bounds. But it takes two. Your H's favorite coping mechanism is running away. What a horribly sad life he will lead...always running...compiling a lifelong list of failures simply because he never would be willing to truly try. Life is just hard. It is its own rollercoaster ride. If he gets off at every dip and turn to hide in mommy's apron, the boy will never truly live.

I know it will take a while, Ka, to get through and past this. But I feel so deeply in my heart that the life waiting for you is so much better. You've learned about yourself in having to have gone through this. And you know the qualities a real man, a true man should have when love comes knocking as it most assuredly will again. Don't ever settle for less than what you deserve.

As for the logistics of getting his crap out of your breathing and living space, first take some concerted time to just get yourself out of the hysterical place. Breathe. You ARE going to survive and thrive.
If this were my situation, I think I'd want to get his stuff all collected and put unceremoniously in boxes or giant hefty bags. I would not waste the gas or time on taking them to his folks house. I would call him and tell him when to pick these items up. Decide before calling him if you want to have a face to face in that regard to see what he has to say, or if you are just done and are o.k. with him just picking up his crap from outside your door where it could be stacked. If he doesn't come at the time you've outlined, I'd consider it abandoned property and give it to Goodwill or the garbage company.

Did he give his key back?
What logistics need to happen other than the material goods?
Are you going to insist that he take responsibility for beginning the D process and filing (there's a $$ fee, I think, and since he's the one who f#$ked this whole thing up, shouldn't he be the one to pay that)? Do you have an attorney that you've spoken to already that you're comfortable with who can represent you?

Try to get the physical and emotional ducks in a row, as much as humanly possible. You'll feel a measure of control, self-respect and accomplishment in doing that and in the harder moments, you'll be able to lean on those three pillars.

If at all possible, take a page from Chris's book and make yourself a wonderful plan for Christmas and or new years - a trip, time with family or friends, something that is wholly for and about you because, dammit, you've earned it.

I wish, once again, I could show up with the door with flowers (and a box of kleenex). We are all behind you 110%, Ka. You are a sweet soul that WILL find joy and happiness and the life you richly want and deserve. (((((((((((hugs)))))))))))) BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

just wrote a post and it disappeared on me - that is weird - wonder where it went to? Long story short, just got an email back from H saying that he too felt like yesterday was a blur, that he sat in his car at the grocery store for awhile before he could leave town and would like to talk to me.

Why?

Why does he want to talk to me? This is how he sucks me back in. My HEART would love to go talk to him and ask what HAPPENED yesterday? And then my mind is calling myself an idiot for even thinking about talking to him right now.

What is he doing? What is this? Playing games? Being manipulative? Or he is just REALLY messed up?

Why does he continuously run and say he wants out - but continuously wants to talk or for me to be in his life? Having his cake and eating it too??????????

I can't deal this morning.

Maybe it is an internal struggle going on within your H between his child and adult selves. His "child" tends to hold the reins and have more muscle...but maybe somewhere within himself, he sees how unworkable it is to lead ones life as a child. Just a guess.

If, Ka, you decide to give him another chance - whether that is today or in 2 months - I think it would be wise to have a list of what H would need to commit to doing before giving him another shot and then what he needs to commit to while you're giving him another shot. Feel free to go crazy on that list.

Its hard to see his heart in all of this. Where is his passion? Does he even know what he truly wants? He should want desperately to want to make things right. He should passionately want to be with you. If he doesn't even have his head on straight yet about that, then maybe that's what he needs to figure out. I don't know that depth of feeling can be clearly seen by him when he isolates himself from you, so Im not sure how he needs to figure that out at this point.

And as trampled as you've been recently, do you have clarity, Ka, with your feelings? I'd absolutely understand if you still feel deeply in love and committed. I'd also completely understand if you feel numb and disconnected from him.

If weather permits, take a walk. Try to clear your head past all he's been throwing at you. What do you want? ((hugs)) BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Ka,

He is not understandable because he is deep in a fog and maybe unintentionally manipulating you. However intentionally or not it is manipulation and being a cake man. He knows no other coping skills.

I have grown to realize that being firm and secure with your beliefs is the best role modeling for mixed up people. We can't lose ourselves in their fantasy land and make sense of it. They just don't get it and can't make sense out of any of it themselves.

It took us a long time to unravel and get to the core of my H's problems because he had lived a lifetime of his learned behavior. I wondered why my H lacked sensitivity in many situations. Then I realized how he was brought up and how he learned to cope. It wasn't anything terrible out of the normal but it influenced him in a certain way.

Ka you have to be strong and precise. Because your H needs things spelled out loud and clear. Corner him and make him explain exactly what he is striving for in his life. Then listen to how he thinks he is going to meet those those goals. Another woman can't fix the lack of integrity your H has. In time he may live things out and mourn what he lost but then of course the 2 of you will be history and it will be too late. There is no doubt you love him but you can't let him suck all the life and self worth out of you before he comes to his senses.

Amber

came home to my empty house...again. Why did H move back in in the first place? Things were awkward, sure, but he was HERE again - sat down together at night, had some talks, made dinners, walked to the cafe -- why the hell did he come back? I can't believe this cycle is already repeating itself.

I gave H a time frame and he came and got his stuff. That's that - most of it is gone. I feel so sick.

He left me a note, once again asking to talk AND saying that he could not leave his key YET. Again, what does that mean??? Why not?

Why does he do this to me? Why the plea to talk? He is the one that just walked out on me? Why does he want to talk to me? This is just torture.

I feel so lost, like i want to crawl out of my own skin. I don't recognize myself, my life, my future. I really had hope. 3 weeks ago H moved back in and i really regained some hope. And here we are, back to where we started. I hate him.

Ka,

I was looking for you in chat to tell you of my experiences; similar to yours.

When I found my H was still cheating on me, I kicked him out of the house. I packed his bag and off he went (to the arms of OW)..

I changed the locks on the doors and packed ALL his things and threw them into the bed of his truck at work. Probably not too bright in retrospect...

But everyday, after work, he would show up at our house and want to talk. I was VERY unemotional. He was very emotional. He felt he had ruined our M (yes...), and was testing the waters (hot or cold; I gave him tepid) at home.

His stay with OW was short lived. He thought the fantasy was to continue...but, of course, we all know it doesn't. It ended fast. But he still thought that I would never allow him back.

I truly felt I wouldn't, too. I dated and lived a single life for two weeks. I saw a lawyer and started D proceedings...

Then he stepped out of his fog and opened his eyes. The fact that I could continue just fine thank you without him was the proverbial slap into reality. But that was just one eye-opener, and there were several.

He is so grateful now for the small, tiny, miniscule window of opportunity that I allowed for our M to reconcile.

Me, too.

Good luck. No matter what path your travels take you, it probably won't be easy.



Peace is not just the absence of war; it's an exercise in compassion. -Dalai Lama
Coming to you from JJ

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((KA))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

You tried - he failed.  Yes he is being manipulative.  To give him the benefit of the doubt he probably is not doing it intentionally.  It appears he has a long way to go in therapy and has yet to face his real demons. 

In all likelyhood you scared the living daylights out of him when you started to move forward.  You packed up his things and made your house KA's home.  He was this and was desperately afraid you were moving on without him. 

You need to move on without him, it is up to him to catch up to you, on his own.  If you enable him and allow him to hold you back he will never fully face his demons and he will never heal.

The only decision you really need to make is if you want to allow a window of opportunity open for him to return if, and only if, he conquers his inner demons.  It is not a decision that needs to be made now.  As you continue foward in your life, concentrating on what is right for you, the decision may be made without your even realizing it.

Do what is right for you.  This was a hard concept for me to embrace because after years upon years of putting myself second, of being the martyr, it was (and still is) hard not to feel selfish and guilty for putting myself first.  Moving forward and growing personally is not being selfish nor anything to feel guilty about.

Get yourself to a healthy place, if he catches up to you then make your decision.  Just be careful not to let him impede your personal journey.

My heart, thoughts, and prayers go out to you across the universe.

Chris

 

 

i wish i could feel such passion to move on with MY life, to feel that anger, that "sc*** you!" mentality. H's being here and then leaving has really hit me hard. The heartbreak feels strong along with the complete and total disbelief that H packed up and ran again, after just coming home.

My heart tells me to talk to him. He is asking to talk to me. I should hear what he has to say.

My mind is saying enough of these games. What is H playing at? What is there to talk about?

I did not call him today. I drove by the house and saw his truck here, the back all filled up with his stuff -- it broke my heart and i was SO tempted to come back to the house to face him -- but i didn't. I really don't know what is right or wrong, what to do, what not to do. I feel like all my confidence in my own judgement has disappeared. i question everything i do, what my H does.

I did feel today that i had to FORCE myself to listen to my mind and not my heart. I'm still questioning myself, even as i sit here.

I don't know why my H continues to want to talk JJ - i used to think it was because he was still holding on to us, that there was some hope there. But now i wonder if its just him being selfish and not wanting to be the "bad guy." I'm not sure where I even fall into this in his eyes.

And Chris, I want to focus on me. I will probably need some guidance and strong pushes though I have completely lost sight of me during all of this. I talk about finding me - but lets face it - i haven't done it. I've focused and obsessed completely on what H wants, thinks, and does. I know, know, know that that has to change.