I have been visiting this site for about a month now, looking for whatever answers I can get from those who have been there.
I finally feel the need to tell my story, inhopes of some sound advice. As you probably know...My mind is going in a million different directions.

My story begins 6 months ago, when out of the blue, I decided to look at our cell phone bill. Now imagine, this is something I rarely did...but on this particular day, I was drawn to it. Thats when I saw numerous calls to a number I didnt recognize. Shocked and in disbelief, I called the number....sure enough it was the OW. When I confronted the H about it....of course H said..."its nothing...were just friends". So immediately, in my state of rage I packed all his stuff.... in a hefty bag..told him it was outside, and not to come back. I also told H to leave the cell phone, after all, it is in my name. That day he left the house, only to return the next day, begging and pleading it was over and it was nothing.

Attemping to listen to what H had to say....and thinking, what about our 2 beautiful children, and how this will tare them apart....I thought for a moment, that maybe we can get passed this, maybe H was just stupid, going thru mid-life crisis or something. Still at that moment I knew I had to try and hold it together, so I passed it off as bad judgement on H's part.

The next few months were so confusing for me. My H was acting like the model father and H. Please appreciate, that I did make it a living hell for H every other day.....looking for reassurance in the M, bombarding H with questions and insults, trying to get at the truth. He would comfort me by telling me we will get thru this, we will go to MC....basically what ever it took to make it right.

During that time....I was a W on a mission to find anything incriminating to hold against H. Thats when I did find, their secret cell phone. This is the phone the OW gave to H, so they can communicate without me knowing......Well, that didnt work, bright the two of them were not. So once again, we start from the begining........So basically, this is were I am at now. Again, telling me its really over this time, blah, blah, blah....the same song I heard before.....Now what???? I keep asking for proof that it is over...but H doesnt know how to give me that. Truthfully, I dont either......It has been 3 weeks now, and once again playing the perfect H role......I dont know what to do or think. My trust and faith have been totally demolished....I feel like I'm losing my mind. Why would I want to stay with this man??? How can I be certain he is sincere???? I am so torn, I keep telling H to go.......but H wont go!!!!! H tells me he dont love the OW, H wants me and the kids..... What game is H playing...Why??

Welcome, Amy. I'm so very sorry that circumstances have brought you here. We all know the devestation, confusion, anguish and anger that are running through your brain.

Thank you for sharing your story. I always find it amazing to hear about someone's instincts, or gut feeling or being drawn to look for something. Each of us has incredible abilities within ourselves that are our greatest resources. Trust your gut. Listen to your inner voice. There is wisdom there that will get you through this situation and on through your life.

I'm wondering if the OW is married, is engaged or has a boyfriend. One of the very best ways to put the brakes on an A is if both BS's are aware of the A. It wouldn't be a vengeful act to tell the OW's spouse what you have found out. If for no other reason, health concerns are completely valid in this day and age. And with that in mind, sadly, you should be tested for STD's, if you haven't already. Frankly, your H should be tested, too. As a show of remorse, would he be willing to go do that with you?

What information has your WH given you regarding the OW? Do they work together? Are they old friends? Did they find each other on-line? You'll need to know this in order to work towards finding ways of NC (no contact). Your H should compose a NC letter to be sent to the OW, and I would advise that you be shown the letter before its sent and either mail it together, or watch him mail it. Consider a signed returned receipt. It could be emailed (so that you could get OW's email address and hopefully block it from your home system...or at least watch for it.)

It sounds like at this point you have no proof of a physical affair (PA), only an emotional affair (EA). First, be prepared for more difficult truth to trickle your way. Its not a given, but it happens a lot that WS's slowly, grudgingly and oftentimes only when caught, release the truth about how long and how involved the A has become. Even if it truly is just an EA, it is absolutely still an affair and is inappropriate.

You should ask your H for the entire story of how they met, got together, etc.

If your H is serious about going to MC, that is a great start. The effectiveness of MC is dependent on how honest your H is willing to be, but its at least a dedicated time where the two of you can begin to talk through some of what's been happening between the two of you, and where your H spiralled out of control and away from the M. It would be awesome to also get both of you into IC. That's more specifically where your H may come to grips with what's wrong with him that he needed something outside of the M.

You may have read this along the way, but it bears repeating. This A is not your fault. This is not something that happened to you and your M because you did something wrong, or were lacking as a wife. Your H has some issue emotionally that needs to be uncovered. Lots of people have stresses in their life, or problems. But not all of those people have A's. Something else is wrong when someone chooses an A.

How old are your kids? Do they have any sense of whats going on?

Please make sure that you're taking care of yourself. Its often so easy within this trauma to neglect just basic care elements. Eat healthy. Take vitamins. Exercise if you can. You need your physical and mental abilities at their best during this time.

I guess lastly, I would suggest thinking long and hard about what your boundaries are. Give your WH the opportunity to really tell you everything, beginning to end, with the understanding that continued lies only damage the marriage further. Then think about what you need from your H to prove the A is over, and that he truly is focussed on you and the kids. Figure out what the consequences truly are if you find he has lied again, or if NC is broken.

It is often suggested that you go ahead and contact an attorney...not necessarily to file, but to at least find out your rights. Knowledge is power.

I'm sure you'll get more advice, so I'll wrap this up for now. Again, Amy, welcome. I wish there was something we could do or say to take away the pain. But I can certainly offer my understanding and support for you during this difficult time. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

HurtAmy,

Okay first off, this stinks, you and I know it...but you can survive this and be okay. Honest!
As was stated above, do you have the whole story? Is he willing to tell it?
If he hasn't yet, try printing off Joseph's letter over in the Helpful Links section on the left of this screen. It is amazing and can sometimes help a WS who isn't willing to tell - tell the story.

Second, this is a portion of the story of my H's A. Finding the number on the cell, it's only a friend, secret cell phones, all of it. I know how hurt you are with the secret phones. We ended up having to pay the OW a portion of the money in cash to get rid of the phones. Humiliated, thats what I was.

You need to make sure that he is done. Otherwise, he will continue to hide things. Not all WS's are like this, but they become further and further underground. Where I was policing his cell, his blackberry and the house (he never used), he took it all to work. All accounts and calls went through there. They get craftier. I'm not saying he's doing this, but just letting you know that's what mine did.

You need the whole story. He needs to be open to the point where you ask a question and he simply answers - no hedging, no complaining. Once you get the entire story, the truth, you can begin to figure out how to heal and where to begin.

I would suggest IC for both of you.
I would suggest a MC when you two are ready. I honestly feel that IC has to happen first before MC can work. We wasted good money on two MC's that my H consistently lied to - he wasn't ready for it.

Post often, chat when you are ready, email me or others.

There are many of us that have traveled the roads....are still traveling them...and we are willing to listen, post and help you where we can.

You are not alone!!!

((((((((((((((HurtAmy)))))))))))




Denise

"Our lives begin to end when we become silent about things"

Amy:

Welcome to our site. I'm glad you dediced to share your story. It's my hope that you will find the help you're looking for here.

I'm sorry that your husband has done this. Obviously, this is a very basic betrayal of your trust. It can be difficult to restore trust after even the initial betrayal that you experienced, but the added betrayals make it even harder.

Sadly, many wayward spouses compound the difficulties of recovery through some additional form of betrayal. Your experience is all to common in that respect. However, there is hope for a recovery.

It's hard for anyone to prove that they are not doing something. It's hard for you to see any convincing evidence that can establish that fact. Even if you could somehow have 24 hr monitoring of him, there would still be doubt, and there would still be opportunties for him to continue this betrayal if that is what he wanted to do.

Some things that help are:
1) No contact. If he works with her, any steps he took to find a new job. If he knows her through an organization he belongs to, then he could resign from the organization. While they are not absolute proof, any steps he takes away from the OW are an indication that he wants to end his relationship her.

2) Accountability. When he gives you complete access to his whereabouts and makes sure that he has a "chaparrone" when going places without you, there is some amount of restoration of trust. In addition, this can alleviate any fears you have as a result of mistrust. My wife did this by making sure she took one of our children with her anytime she went out. She also kept her cell phone with her, and as a stay at home mom, I was able to call her at home when she was there.

3) Openness. His willingness to answer your questions, his patience with your need for information, your need to ask the same questions again and again, your need to assurance from him that he is committed to you are all parts of him becoming as transparent to you as necessary to allow you to rebuild trust.

It's hard work for both spouses and it takes a long time for trust to be restored after infidelity. Patience and a williingness to listen from both are required to work through it. The experience can draw you together more than you've ever been before or it can push you apart, depending on the attitudes that you and he take in recovery.

TomJ

Just wanted to welcome you and to let you know that we all understand the hideous trauma of adultery - the craziness, panic, fury, anxiety, confusion. How could this person we loved stab us in the back over and over? How could someone we thought shared our values so clearly not? I am so, so sorry for your pain.

I agree with what everyone has says - no contact, accountability, IC, MC and take care of yourself.

There is hope and the possibility of a better M, but only if H is remorseful,willing to be available 24/7 and face himself and you with honesty. It takes a lot of time for them to come out of the fog and it is rarely a straight line to recovery - there are bumps, craters and new revelations along the way. If only they would understand that we need to know it all and all at once. Our MC, who has dealt with many couples on this issue has said that she has never seen a perfect, by the book recovery....just seems that it takes a long time for WS to face the shame and realize the effects of his actions (we weren't supposed to find out and therefore,not get hurt - what idiots!)

We are an example of a couple that has made it but it was very,very,very hard and equally painful. Also, it wasn't clear for a long time that we would, and there are still moments of intense hatred.Brace yourself and give it lots and lots of time. I think the single biggest help for us was MC - a padded room where we could talk about the issues with a referee. I think it is a good sign that your H has declared he wants the M to work...now he needs to show it but breaking all contact with OW to focus on you and your M.

Please keep coming back for help, support, caring, commiseration...you will find all of that here.

Thank you all for the warm welcome. I understand this is the beginning of a long hard road I must walk. Your insights and willingness to listen is so wonderful and I am very grateful.

I truly dont know whats gonna happen.... but to answer some of your questions.....

My children are 6 & 10, and yes they do have an idea of whats going on.

As far as H being open and honest about the questions I have ask....a little bit....more like cautious in his answers....alot of I dont knows and I aready told yous.

Today we had a set back because of my obsession with getting the dirt....I know I have to stop...but I find myself not being able to do so......;Shocking???

I've been trying to face the fact...that if H wants OW...than H will find any means possible to get to her....what I cant face, and understand, is why drag me with u!!!!

As far as a PA....not really sure...Ive begged and pleaded for the truth on this one...but so far H is denying that.

I know what I need in reasurrance is actions......sometimes I get them sometime I dont......Is this a lose lose situation???

I really dont know.....but please keep your comments and suggestions coming.....it means so much to me

Amy...

just an additional note...make sure that you get tested for STD's...as painful as the thought is, you need to know and your H also needs to be tested...that is a big reality of A's.

Keep posting and Welcome...You will find a lot of support here.

(((hugs)))

Pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

The obsession with getting the dirt is normal. You don't have to stop. My experience was that once my H started telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth that I could stop asking the questions and know that if it was really important and I needed to know that I would be able to ask him and he would tell me. It is not shocking that you have been unable to do this, especially considering the circumstances of promises made and broken again, hiding of information and activity. A truly remorseful H will eventually become open and answer your questions. In my case, after 4 months of non-transparency, I concluded that he was not producing cell phone and credit card bills because he had continued the affair. At which point, he thought I was packing up and leaving. And, FINALLY, he produced them only to show me that he had slept not with one person but with a second as well. Having gone through 4 months of thinking that he had fallen in love and spent his time with one person and having triggers associated with her name, naked pictures I saw on myspace, knowing the hotel and city they spent time together in I realized that I didn't want any more triggers. I know that I could ask him at any time and he would tell me. But, really, I don't want to know the other person's name or body type, she is nothing to me. I know others want and need to know all the details. I just learned that the details make living and walking through daily life that much harder. Honestly, his documentation produced enough evidence to prove to me that he hadn't fallen in love with anyone. That while he was driving to see one he was returning calls to 5 others he was considering as options for filling whatever needs he had (eeewwww!). That is not falling love with the person.

Why drag you with him. Because he thinks that whatever you don't know won't hurt you. Even after all of this he still absolutely believes that. My H thought he was protecting me by not producing the evidence. When in fact producing the evidence gave me what I needed - that he hadn't fallen in love with someone else. Does it make it right, no. But, he wasn't protecting me, but he thought he was. You just have to understand the psychology - and none of it makes sense, is fair, or logical. It just is what it is. And, it has little to do with you. Of course, my best protection would have been not having the A in the first place. I don't know why they drag us through their muck. They want their cake and eat it too??? The best you can do at this point is understand your boundaries and state them to him and be really clear about what the consequences are for crossing the boundaries. You have to be clear with yourself that you will engage those consequences if those boundaries are crossed going into the future. Honestly, as much as I believe that if I found my H doing this again I'd just pack up and go. I question that because it is what I would have thought I would have done the first time around. When I had a series of triggers that made me spiral into a place where I absolutely believed it had all started again, I curled up and cried and waited for him to tell me it would all be ok. I didn't pack up and run. It scares me to think of going through it again. I'm sorry that you had to.

Regarding the PA. Getting STD testing can sadly prove that issue out. My H got something, so far I haven't gotten it, thank goodness. If you are both clean then there are still questions to be answered. He'll likely hide that one from you until you have evidence to the contrary. You might have to just let that one go. But, consider what you will do and how you will respond if he tells you he has had a PA. What does that mean to you, is that your boundary, is that forgivable, do you want to have those visions in your head, do you already have them, what will it change?

Is it a lose lose situation? I've been going through this for 7 months and now accepting that it will likely take much more time than that. It's not lose lose so long as there is progress. Progress comes much faster if he's remorseful, telling the whole truth, answering all of your questions, being transparent, producing documents, telling you where he is, providing constant reassurance.

Finally, while he's going through his turmoil, lost in his fantasy, and as we so lovingly call it - the fog. You can take care of you. Focus on you, your needs, defining boundaries for yourself, know what you want in your relationship and ask for your needs to be met. Understand he needs time to clear his head and get back on track, but know your limits for what you're willing to invest in time into the relationship. How long can you wait for him to commit to No Contact, Show Remorse, and be 100 transparent?

My life has changed. But, his behavior can not destroy me. It is my life and I have choices. I have power. My fantasies have been destroyed. But, I will not let this change my positive outlook on life, my sheer joy of people, and my belief in the goodness of human beings. I will hold to my core beliefs. I know what they are. They have only become clearer in the face of this travesty. I will not be shaken. I can not be trapped because I find freedom within myself, my behavior, my actions. Find yourself, it is a beautiful thing and YOU will survive with or without him, whether he comes along or not.

Good luck it is a long and weary path but, yes, there are some wins along the way. Sometimes they are hard fought for, sometimes hard to see, and sometimes they are golden nuggets that you will carry with you for the rest of your life, nuggets you would have never seen without the passing of this issue through your life. And, I say I could have lived my whole life just fine without these nuggets. But, if these nuggets are what I get for having suffered this, there's I'm going to use them and enjoy them and share them wherever and whenever I can.

Sorry so long.

Welcome and ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))...

I am so sorry for your pain. The others have offered excellent advice and I do not have much to add to it. But I will say this, having more than one d-day (discovery day of the affair) is unfortunately very common. But what the WS doesnt understand is that any further deception just makes it that much harder for the BS to believe any thing they say. How can we? Just please know that you reaction and feelings are normal. And about wanting to know the details, that too is normal. I agree woth Hope....you dot need to stop asking questions unless YOU want to. You have a need to know and he needs to answer with honesty and be an open book. It works no other way! There is hope as long as the WS is truly remorseful...and Tom pretty much covered that one.

Keep posting!

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Yes, the need for details is normal and everyone's needs are different. For most WS, it is hard to get into the details - it is shaming, embarassing, awkward, but that doesn't stop us from wanting them.

For me, my need was intense. I needed to rob their A of any intimacy and secrecy - all the secrets should belong to me. Over time (lots of time), H was able to share a lot but never would tell my the very (VERY) specific sexual details I wanted - he just couldn't and that made me furious.

After about 2 years, I stopped needing to know - it was past history. And, I realized that there would never be enough detail for me, short of replaying blow by blow (sorry for the pun) every single encounter, every phone call, every e-mail. Just can't happen.

But I do understand what you are going through - it is awful. The movies of them together play in your head and are torture to watch, yet we can't help playing them. So, so sorry. All I can advise is to continue to talk to your H about why you need to know - it is not to punish him but to give you what you need to heal.

I also go a lot of "I told you that already." And yes, I did need to hear some of the same things over and over. That is the treatment for trauma - talk and talk and talk about the same things over and over until they lose their power over you.

I hope your H can understand but as you already realize, this is a long, twisting, and very bumpy road.

Thank You Susan and everyone......Today I have my first IC sesh......I'm a lil nervous, and dont know what to expect..... The last couple of days have been very hard.....I think I pushed a lil to hard with the H.....Now we are not speekin at all......I cannot get the hang of this!!!!!!Why wont he give me what I need?????? Is he sincere about his intentions to make this work and is the OW really out of the picture????!!!!!!! I think I'm gonna give up diggin...its only makin me crazy and more hurt........You are all right about given them the power!!! I'm not gonna let them control me....I know H needs to see that!!!

So I'm gonna try to go on living...with or without him......

Amy

Amy,

When your H is transparent that is when you can begin to heal with him...until then keep healing yourself..
You are on the right road.

((((hugs)))

Pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

(((Amy))))

Like Pat, I believe you are on the right road. I just wanted to wish you luck on your first IC session. I think everyone is nervous their first few times. Just know that it takes time, everything will not be resolved overnight. I hope you will come back and let us know how it went. I know it helped me so much to come here and talk about my sessions...made me feel validated in my feelings.

Best wishes

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

When it comes to "going to far", in terms of feeling that you've pressed too hard for openness or showing the hurt feelings that you have because your WS has responded poorly, even destructively to those efforts... I believe that 99.999% of the time this is the WS pushing back in order to avoid giving what has been asked for.

My wife would respond to these requests with pleas that it was "too hard to do this". In playing the victim, she was acting as if her experience was too traumatic to relive. It was not the truth. In fact, the hard part was facing the truth of exactly how she was a liar and a cheat. Unfortunately, her reaction is far too common, and even mild in comparison to the reactions that I've heard of from others. Once in a state of denial, the commitment is huge, and the WS will struggle mightily before acknowledging the truth, even to themselves. Not that they don't know the truth, they just are stuck denying and rationalizing, and therefore distorting that truth.

As Ami said... no one can bring them out of it but themselves. I would add though those around them have the power to choose whether to be enablers.