I'm absolutely positive you'll get a huge response in answer to this, Nycolette. But I think it would be great for you to post this question on the Open Board if you're comfortable doing that. There are some wonderful fWS (former Wayward Spouses) that can really give you a more personal glimpse into "fogginess". BlueIris
PS - And because I kind of like poking through the older threads, I'll search around and see what's been historically discussed about this and bump it up for you. Be well.
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
This is from Surviving Infidelity's Healing Library...maybe this will help you.
WHAT IS THE FOG?
It is difficult to understand, and even moreso to get a grip onto the reality of it actually having happened to your WS/FWS.
There are some on the site who don't believe that it exists; in majority this is the group whose spouses have left them for the OP. Their POV is certainly understandable, given the fact that they've chosen to change their entire existence because of being in what we call the fog.
Most of the WS's on the site, however, agree that the fog is a very real place and state of mind.
There are three different kinds of "fog". WS fog, BS fog and OP fog.
THE WS FOG
The best way to describe the WS fog is to think of it as a type of being "brainwashed". The WS, when first involved in the A, feels complete thrill and excitement due to this sudden attention from someone new. It is a type of high that can only really be compared to a drug. The WS may feel "in love" with the OP, and the thrill to the WS is very real.
Soon he/she begins to convince themself that this A is good for them for whatever reason, in order to rationalize the guilty feelings that they feel. This is the beginning stages of "the fog". The WS may tell themselves that things have been bad in their M for a very long time, and the OP seems to be the only person who understands them. Many times, when a person is trying to rationalize something, they will tell themselves this rationalization over and over, causing them to actually believe what they are saying, whether it is real or not.
This constant inner dialogue of "The OP is the only one who understands me" and "Things are so bad in my M that I deserve some happiness with OP" causes them to lose all sense of what they used to know. They become psychologically addicted to the A, and need the constant high that it brings, many times with total disregard for the feelings of their confused BS.
After the A is found out by the BS, the WS very often has trouble giving up this fog. They may feel as if the OP is their soulmate, or that they have lost complete feelings for their BS, because they have now demonized their BS as someone who doesn't care for them anyway. When the A is found out, many times the A is still new to the WS, so those intense feelings only magnify for the WS. Feelings of "How dare you try to ruin my life?!" may surface for the WS towards the BS, because they have so completely brainwashed themselves. This is the WS fog.
HOW THE BS CAN DEAL WITH THE WS FOG
Dealing with a WS fog can be one of the most depressing and trying times in a BS's life. You are already dealing with the fact that your M has been polluted by an A, and now the person you married and thought you could trust has suddenly become some sort of pod person who seems to feel that their A is justified. Rest assured, IT IS NOT.
Although your WS is still in the fog, if he/she still loves you (and many times this will be followed with "but I'm no longer 'in love' with you") they may try to work things out. Both of you maintaining NC with the OP is essential to "wake up" your WS.
It is important that you sit down with your WS and have an adult, no screaming, taking turns conversation. Listen to the words that your WS is saying. Don't just listen so that you know what your next argument will be, but really listen. Some of what your WS says will be valid, and you have to accept that, although you were not the cause of their A, you did contribute to some of the problems in the marriage. Some of what your WS says will be completely the fog talking. This is no time for beating yourself up over "what you should have been doing". This is the time where you listen, figure out what you could do to improve the M, and what your WS needs to do (aside from maintaining NC and being an open book to you) to improve the M.
Validate your WS in the points that are accurate on your part as to not being the perfect spouse. However, hold fast to the inaccuracies that your WS points out, because as it happens so often in life, your WS may be projecting what he/she dislikes about him/herself onto you. Make a list of what your WS considers as marital problems, and down one side of the paper write what is accurate and down the other write what is inaccurate. You may be able to list examples of the inaccuracies that your WS has projected onto you about your WS!
Show your WS these examples and inaccuracies. It may not help right away, but it may just stick with your WS over time.
Most importantly, work on yourself to improve the M. In a best case scenario, your WS will see what a fool he/she has been, come 180 degrees out of the fog, and become remourseful, and will continue to work on the M all the rest of the days of their life.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
The fog, in my opinion is a term used to describe a state of mind where a person is not seeing and understanding the world around them accurately.
The truth is that we all live in a kind of fog at all times, since we are never capable of truly seeing our world and ourselves in a truly objective light. However, the fog of betrayal is an extreme. The wayward spouse fogs starts with a series of fully inaccurate ideas. For example, some believe that they can improve their existence through the affair relationship, or they believe that the extramarital relationship will not lead to any problems. They can believe that the situation is the fault of the other person or their spouse. They can think they have no other choice than to pursue the affair. These are all examples of 'fog' thinking because they rarely reflect the truth of the situation.
Betrayed spouses usually experience their own fog in sizing up the situation before and/or after the affair is discovered. They will often presume the worse scenarios as the future unfolds, or they re-write the history of the marriage to idealize it to one extreme or the other. It usually takes a fair amount of time for a betrayed spouse to regain an objective outlook on their spouse and their marriage.
I don't know your story, and each WS is different, but I showed my FWS H Cal's post on the WS fog and this is what he said:
"I think that the description of the "fog" misses the point when it talks about about euphoria and thrill. It is not a positive thing at all, it is a desparate diversion from the negative. There is actually a profound self-loathing, a miserable black hole that you cannot seem to see the obvious way out of (i.e. breaking off the affair). No, I truly do not want to see OW again. Because she is connected to a mental state that I never want to be in again. The unhappiest time of my life does not begin to describe it."
There are different sorts of affairs; my H had a romantic A with a work colleague. He now says he was severely mentally ill (clinical depression) at the time. That's no excuse (nor is he trying to use it as one), but it does give some insight into his mental state while in the fog: he just couldn't care about anything.
>There is actually a profound self-loathing, a miserable black hole that you cannot seem to see the obvious way out of
My wife described it as feeling like she was in a deep, dark pit that she couldn't get out of. She felt that my actions when the affair was discovered was as if I reached down into the pit and lifted her out.
She also said that she often turned to the OM because he was the only person she could talk to about the most important problem in her life, the affair. She sees the stupidity of that, because it was like going to the fox for advice on how to secure the hen house. Yet, in her foggy she limited her choices so that he was the only one. At one point she reached out to a counselor, but they didn't respond quickly enough to suit her and that connection was never made when she gave up and gave into the progression of the affair.
I don't know if this is hijacking the post or not, but what did you do, "my actions when the affair was discovered was as if I reached down into the pit and lifted her out." My wife admits to being in a fog currently, 7 months past D-day, 3 months since last admitted contact. She still cannot talk to me about this. I talk, I bring information, I discuss possible mind set, I brought a copy of Ami's post of "some reasons why". http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1199365150/last-1199900575/Some+Reasons+Why
She finds sense in my talks, but does not talk about her or us. She has guilt.
I am at another tipping point. If I find out she has continued contact, or lies to me, I think I must pursue a divorce. It takes 6 months to process here, so I could initiate and see if there is any change in her. We live as if nothing is wrong. I try to talk to her about once a week, and each time I tell her that her not searching, discussing, researching, for anything to help herself or us, trying to sweep under the rug, that she is doomed to repeat. She still has feelings for OM. I told her that I do not want to hear about that, only when that goes away. I don't think I can have that part of the discussion. With her continued fog, continued complacency in self-help, no-talk initiation, I run low on patience and continue to prepare myself for D.
I have considered implementing some of the 180 principles, but only a few. I have to treat her as lying first, then see if there is truth to what she tells me. How long should a marriage live like that?
Yes, I too find peace in Ami's post "Some reasons Why" as I was faced with being told by my H that he loves me but just not strong enough. I guess it is his way of justify his actions. The "FOG" its really on my nerves.....I dont think I have that kind of patience.
Just yesterday my H and I had a conversation where he echoed what Liz's H said. He was driven by the need for thrill and admiration but it was really an expression of self loathing and despair.That often resulted in anger and cruelty. In our case, there were were the complcations of bi-polarity, alcoholism (which is very often the partner of bi-polarity) and drugs that drove him into a manic state. But, I think that his feelings are true for a lot of WS.
He now looks back on those years with shame and disgust...it is still very hard for him to talk about it and the sexual details are off-limits. He will only say that it was "perfunctory." I don't think he is trying to protect the A - he is just too embarassed. (And yes, it makes me angry but I cannot control another person - just make decisions on the basis of their behavior and I have decided that I will live without those details.)
It is very, very hard for me to understand how misery lives alongside the excitement of an A and a new sexual partner. And, sometimes, I think he is just saying that he hated himself in order to appease me.
I believe that the state of mind of a WS is very complex, distorted and insane, in a way. So, I am not sure I will ever understand fully but it helps to know that other WS are saying the same thing as my H.
Thank you all for your responses on "The Fog." It has helped me put things in perspective a little. I did show my WH the posts. He read them and I asked what he thought. You guessed it -- he didn't say much. He's still in denial that he had this EA. He still claims they were "Just Friends."
I know that you do not have my story yet. I eventually will post it. I did try one time but I'm not sure what happened. I may have timed out due to the length and it never reached posting.
There is another question I have. SoCalGal said that there are two other "Fogs" -- BS and OP. Any info on this?
Also, thank you for the thread on "Some Reasons Why."
The OP will occasionally experience a fog as well. Sometimes he/she had no idea that the WS was married, in which case it really was not their fault that an A took place. Usually, however, the OP knew full well what they were getting into. The OP fog consists of brainwashing themselves into believing that they have a chance at "true love" with the WS, and that he/she was sent to the WS to "rescue" him/her from "the big, bad BS". Unfortunately, not much can be done by the BS to get the OP out of his/her fog, but the one thing a BS can do is CONTROL YOURSELF. Do not give the OP any kind of satisfaction by letting him/her know that you are bothered by anything they do. Simply take the high road. As is said over and over on the site, the best revenge is living well.
THE BS FOG
The BS can also experience a fog of their own. We usually refer to this fog as "denial". This can be in reference to denial that the WS would ever have done something like this, so when you've caught the WS and the OP coming out of your bedroom together, of course your WS was just showing the OP a picture you've had on the wall in there for years. In basic terms, the BS is any kind of fog regarding the WS.
OVERCOMING THE BS FOG
Only you and your WS can help you to overcome your own fog. Denial is best overcome when you are slapped in the face with reality. As cliche' as it sounds, "the first step is admitting you have a problem." The BS fog is nowhere near as intense as the WS fog, and can much more easily be overcome. But, as with any problem, the solution lies only within you, yourself.
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
While my wife feels that I "lifted her from the pit", I wouldn't say that she escaped the fog with that, at least not all of it. She continued in 'recovery fog', where she tried to keep me from learning too many of the details of what went on, and she tried to control the 'spin' of the events that occured. In particular she was working what her involvement looked like.
Her approach was to be the victim of the OM (and a few other things). The illogic of this explaination (I'm a victim, but I wasn't raped) kept me running in circles and kept our relationship in constant turmoil for many years. I think we both finally realized that this needed to stop. We realized that the truth, however painful it was, is easier to live with than a lie. I think my wife also recognized that I was at the end of my rope and she had consumed most of the grace I had extended to her. Part of the purpose of the fog was to keep her from facing herself, particularly who she was in the affair, and I believe she realized that she needed to do this because spinning and lying had become too much a part of her routine.
I don't know what it will take to break through the stubborness that your wife is showing you. Every person is a little different. It might be that the 180 will be enough. It might be that understanding the burden her evasiveness puts on you will turn her around. It might require a realization that her marriage is over without changes.
My wife gave plenty of excuses over the years about why she couldn't come forth with the information that I wanted from her. A lot of those excuses tied into how painful it was to her when she revisited the affair and those memories. She played it like she was a victim of a crime at the hands of the OM and I was a cruel husband to make her 'go back there'. However, in hindsight I believe the pain she was avoiding was the pain of seeing herself in ways that were very shameful and having ME see that person. It was a pain that could not be avoided if we were to ever recover.
Ultimately your wife needs to see that life will be better once she gives up all approaches to control the damage, but what it takes for her to make that realization comes down to factors that lie deep in her.
