Just read an email from a former co-worker telling my W in the e-mail that OM say hi...this is quote on quote : "XXXX wanted me to tell you he said hello,
he says he's thinking about you "
It's through someone else but this is contact in my eyes, I am so mad right now my heart is beating outside my chest.
Edited for spelling
This message has been edited by hartbroken44 on Feb 10, 2008 5:44 PM This message has been edited by hartbroken44 on Feb 8, 2008 3:08 PM
When was the email dated? If it was just recently, give your W a day to tell you. If it has been a while then you have to talk to her about it. Understand, that if she kept this from you it was from a misguided belief that she is protecting you. Point out that only total honest is the only way to protect you. Tell her how it makes you feel to have this secret kept from you. This is a setback, but it is not an impossible one to overcome. Setbacks are part of recovery, and should be expected.
Well, I didn’t give my wife the time to tell me. Mainly because I think this has more to do with him than with her. He crossed the line, he very discretely broke the NC rule. So I called him an hour ago. I told him not to ever contact my W even with messages through other people. He was very apologetic the whole time but needles to say I am an emotional wreck. Hopefully this is the end of it because I also told him that I will not hesitate to tell his W.
I agree with everything Ami said. You need to bring this up to your wife even though you have already spoken to OM. It is about him breaking NC, but it may also be about your wife not telling you and it is definately about your pain.
I also question the knowledge level and motives of this former co-worker who passed on the meassage from OM. Obviously this person knows of the affair, or so it appears. I would then think that this person also knows that it is over, so why then would this person want to pass along a message. If I was the other person my response to OM would have simply been that I do not want to get in the middle of anything and will not pass on any messges. I would s/w W about NC with this former co-worker also. He/she is obviously not a friend of the marriage and therefore should have no place in Ws life.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this and can imagine the pain. My H OW was a co-worker, everyone from the company was laid off, so thankfully there is no connection there anymore. But alot of people have kept in touch and I always wonder if any of them see/speak with her and if any of them mention it to H. He probably wouldn't tell me which just makes it harder.
You mentioned that you would tell OMs wife if he contacted your W again, I'm curious if OMs wife knows about the affair.
((((((((((((Hart)))))))))))) Does that also mean you've already spoken with your W about this, too?
I understand why you needed to take some action - I would've gone crazy waiting a day...though I understand Ami's reasoning. I think contacting OM was appropriate, and advising him about contacting his own W was a great thought.
If you haven't contacted your W about this already, are you able to not tell her about it to see if she would bring it to your attention?
I'm so sorry this happened, Hart. I fear this very thing happening myself so can completely understand the emotions going through you. How are you right now? Blue
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
This message has been edited by BlueIris22 on Feb 8, 2008 8:58 AM
Lisa, the other co-worker does not know, no one there knows besides my W, OM and me. So no one was to blame, it was clearly him breaking the rule. He said on the phone, “sorry, I didn’t mean it like that” Really??? How did you mean it. What exactly did you mean when you told that person, “tell her I say hi and that I am thinking of her”??????
Blue, I emailed my W and left a message but will probably only get in touch with her tonight. It sucks that I won’t ever know if she would have told me out of her own but based on promises about this exact thing I am going to believe that she would have. To answer your question, I am not doing well. The shock, beating heart, feelings of anger and being this upset takes me back to d-day and those beginning days
Sorry, Hart. You and I have chatted frequently, and I understand your resurgence of angry feelings...but I also think you had a unique opportunity, and blew it. Here's what I mean.
First, to me, No Contact means that. It even includes you. By contacting him, you blew open that contract. The recipient of the email, by your own volition, knew nothing of the A. They were doing nothing more than extending a "hello." We've all done that, with no negative intentions.
Had you NOT contacted the OM, it would have been a SUPER OPPORTUNITY for you to have given your W a chance to "step up to the plate." Just think what that would have done for YOU! PLUS, had she not responded to the OM's "hello," think what THAT would have done to him! He WANTED a response...but your W would honor N/C, and he'd get none. Big message!
I also know that you're troubled with restoring your trust in your W. I think, had you let this instance run its course, it would have been a major boon for instilling trust in your W's actions again.
Alas, that opportunity is past. Now what? You're still a wreck. You REALLY need to converse with your W about your feelings. You need (IMHO) to apologize for going behind HER back, breaking N/C, by calling OM. Be prepared because she may be angry. Your last D-day was a year ago, and - assuming she's been honest and true to you - she's bound to be hurt by your actions.
I may be way off on my reaction to this, Hart. I don't mean to do you a dis-service. I don't mean to add to your pain; you're a good man struggling under difficult circumstances. Don't be hard on yourself. But if I were you, I'd take tonight to set things straight, humbly.
JJ, I hear what you are saying and to some degree you may be right but here is how I see it. I didn't break the NC rule he did. He thought he was sneaky to pass messages along instead of directly contacting her but C is C. She doesn't need to know that he is thinking about her. That being said, since a rule was broken, something needed to be done, it required actions which means either she was going to have to contact him and say don’t do this or I was. To be honest with you, I prefer that I did it because it prevented her from calling or emailing him. My W and I previously discussed this exact scenario and agreed that it happened it would fall into the "unexcitable" category and will require actions. I took it. Maybe I was wrong but what’s done is done.
I can understand your reaction to the email. I agree that it probably was something that needed to be dealt with by enforcing boundaries. Once, after D-day, I had to contact the OM because he was trespassing on my property. After discussing it with my wife, I called the OM and told him that I expected him to cease his trespassing. The conversation did not go well, mainly because he would not admit that he was trespassing. However, there was no more trespassing after this.
I believe it would have been better to wait, discuss this email with your wife and then TOGETHER decide how to act next. She might have offered a different means of enforcing the boundary, or she might have been able to ask the sender (innocently) why she was offering this 'hello' from the OM without tipping her off to anything. Resolving it together would have helped create trust and partnership between you and her, and it was probably something that could have waited for your reaction.
That said, when necessary I believe it's helpful to enforce boundaries with your OP if that is needed. One reason the affair occured is that boundaries were not respected (i.e. you don't have affairs with another person's spouse under any circuimstances) and they were not enforced (wayward spouses did not reject any attempts to have an affair). Since he 'learned' that he can violate those boundaries with your wife, it may require more that one 'instruction' to show him that at least one of the boundaries will be enforced.
I am so sorry this happened and that you are understandably triggering badly from it. Sigh... Does it never end, is what you are most likely thinking.
First, I am glad to hear that you and your W had a plan for how to react to such a scenario. That is excellent. You both agreed on a plan of action too, also excellent. This is what a couples need to do when recovering from infidelity. Kudo's to you both.
Second, I am with JJ on this. Contact is contact, and that means you as much as OM and your W. 2 wrongs do not make a right, his breaking the agreement does not leave the door open for you or you "W" to then also break contact. But at the same time, you and your W had agreed that this was the action to be taking. I would encourage you to rethink how to react to any further breaks in NC, and to choose the ignore option, with an indepth discussion between you and your W about what happened, and your feelings. As JJ states, this is an excellent way to build trust and reassurance. From what you have written about your W in the past, it seems likely that she would have notified you.
Lastly, this is still a trust building experience. Both of you need to open up to each other about what this event has taught you and how you feel about it.
Now I feel even worse, I keep making the wrong decisions!! It is just so hard and I acted on emotions, probably making things worse now. I just dont even want to or wanted to deal with any of this.
Hart says: Now I feel even worse, I keep making the wrong decisions!! It is just so hard and I acted on emotions, probably making things worse now. I just dont even want to or wanted to deal with any of this.
Hart! PLEASE don't beat up on yourself! Gosh, if I had a nickel for every decision I rethought....I'd be a millionaire!
You acted emotionally; you acted from your knighthood - sparing your damsel in distress! You've gone through he$% and back, and YOU'RE STILL OKAY! So you acted emotionally...okay...so you did. Don't be harsh about it. Sometimes our hearts overrule our brains! It's done. It's past. Squeeze your W and let her know you love her, and that you acted emotionally...I really think she'll forgive you on this one! You acted to PROTECT HER and YOUR MARRIAGE! Woo Hoo!
We would all react in different ways...no ONE way is right, and no ONE way is wrong!
Please let us not go down the path of putting you in a situation where you feel even worse, Hart!
I have to honestly say that I don't feel you broke NC over this. OP obviously broke NC in a roundabout way, poking to see if there was a loophole way of making contact with your W. I feel like your call to him showed him the loophole is closed and if he further tries to nudge the door open, there will be consequences. To me that is a way of slamming the door soundly in his face. It was not a means of making contact. If OP then had a response call or email to you, that's the time to slam the phone down or delete the message.
Yes, it would have been great for you and your W to see this together and to find a way to handle it that worked for both of you. But I don't feel you owe your W an apology for handling this event. It was not a situation you created in the least, though you can certainly tell her you regret that time and circumstances didn't permit bringing her into this loop.
You and your W can make the plan tighter and stronger on the off chance of this happening again...and for the slim possibility that OP will recontact over your call. Your message made him sound pretty sheepish, though, so its hard to imagine OP doing that.
I think you did just fine, Hart. I'm sure you're still shaking in your boots and fuming - - all completely understandable. If the opportunity presents itself for you to go work out or go to a batting cage...something to physically release all you're feeling, I think that might help at least a little. Hang in there, bud. Blue
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
I could go on about the wrong decisions I made early on having to do with contact. In the early days I often called OW when I was particularly angry with H, which was alot, to tell her she could have the SOB. I was extremely blunt and not at all nice. Today, I look back and gringe, I had no right to infringe upon her the way I did.
Please, Please, we learn from experience. You are learning. You and your W are doing excellent by my standards. I wish I had as much self control as you two appear to have. That first year I was just a reactive mess.
Cut yourself some slack. Learn from this. That is what life is about.
My W just called me and ask what was gong on. I explained what was said in the e-mail and that I called him. To my surpirse she was not mad at all and actually said "good". She said that she couldn't believe that he did that "what an idiot".
She actually said that he crossed the line and thanked me for standing up for our marriage and our new commitment.
Thant being said, why am I in tears typing this? Ugh, what and awful day.
Don't feel bad based on opinions rendered here. Whether the opinions expressed agree or disagree with you, they are only suggestions. We don't know what is best for your situation, and we only know selected parts of the total picture. I think the intent of posters is to share an opinion, not pass judgement one way or the other on your choice.
If you see a suggestion that you like, by all means use it, but if you feel that our suggestions are off base, feel free to ignore them.
Hart, you did what was right for you this morning. Your wife's reaction sounds like it was right for her, too. You two can still use this situation to bond more closely together and continue to knit yourselves into the marriage that you both fervently want.
I think its completley understandable that you would be emotionally shaky today. But, dude, you're awesome. Let yourself feel what you're feeling, and when it feels right, either shake it off with something you enjoy or do something for yourself (and/or your W!). Put the focus on the positive if possible. Big hugs to you. Blue
"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."
Dear Heart, you are in tears because you are fighting for your marriage. It is emotional, and it is stressful, painful, and exhausting. You are fighting the good fight...and your wife seemed to appreciate your efforts. Please do not beat yourself up. This is a learning experience for us all. I know this is harder on you because she is not there right now. ((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))
~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha
Hart, I would have done the same thing you did. Sometimes, I think it is because I want to prevent H from making the wrong decision, leaving me with the pressure to make a decision. I am terrified that he won't tell me if there is contact so if I find an e-mail (hasn't happened in a long time), I jump the gun and tell him what I found. I know it would be better to see if he tells me on his own but I don't want to face his failure to do so.Then, what would I do????
And crying just comes with the territory. It sounds like you are crying, in part, because of the kind, loving response from your W. Sometimes the tears are not always about pain.
Hey Self, I think you hit the nail on the head with something that you said. You said,
“know it would be better to see if he tells me on his own but I don't want to face his failure to do so.”
I never thought of it that way but I think that’s true and what I do as well. I wondered myself why I “jump the gun” and don’t give her the opportunity to be truthful sometimes and come clean and I think it’s like you said, I wouldn’t be able to deal with it if she didn’t or failed. I thought so highly of my W before the A and in a way still do, I love her and want to protect her in any way. This was evident when I found myself in a chat room on an infidelity website and still defended her or given the situation tried and put her in a good light. Maybe subconsciously I tell her what I found, or don’t give her the opportunity to tell me things because I am scared and I wouldn’t want to face it if she disappointed me again in some way.
I got to see my W and we spoke about what happened on Friday. I still believe that what I did was necessary. I acted on impulse and out of emotion but think that given our situation I did the right thing. That’s being said y actions did take its toll. Talking to and hearing the voice of the man that slept with my W was very traumatizing for me. I was upset all weekend and many feelings of the early days past d-day surfaced. This morning I had two nightmares, something I have not experienced in months. I hope that I recover quicker because it really feels like this caused me to take 10 steps back. Even though this is painful, I also feel, like I said before, that I did the right things and feel a sense of pride for standing up for my marriage…ugh, so many emotions. Like SoCalGal said,
“It is emotional, and it is stressful, painful, and exhausting”
My W did make me feel better though when she explained and reminded me that this doesn’t change anything with us. That we are still one the right path and focused just on us and working on us. He can say hi or send message as much as he likes, as long as she doesn’t reply or send ones herself, it should not matter. Plus, hopefully he gets the message that I am aware of everything and that there are no openings and trying to find some will have a consequence.
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