Did anyone else have trouble buying Valentine’s Day cards? First of all, I do love my W, don’t get me wrong but it’s so hard to buy one when you still feel hurt and in ways are still bitter. It seems like every “to my wife” card, as it probably should, is full of praise. I would look at a card that says, “You have been the most wonderful wife” “your bring me so much joy” and so on and so on and I think to myself that I can’t in good conscious buy a card that says that because she hasn’t been the best wife. Then again you it is Valentine’s Day and you can’t exactly say, you are a horrible wife, happy Valentine’s Day. It’s like I want to praise her and tell her how great she is but I don’t feel that in my heart…YET, and that is sad in itself. Maybe it’s just me being too focused on the past because since D-Day she has been a good W and I should buy the card based on that…the new behavior. Maybe it’s also just because the pain is still raw. I am sure there will soon be a day that I look at my W with pride, and JUST see the good without attaching the bad past to my view of her. I just wondered if anyone else came across this?
I, and I'm sure many others here, do understand your feelings and your dilemma when it comes to buying cards, especially on a day like Valentine's Day. I remember all too vividly going to buy cards (Valentine's Day and other occasions) when the wounds of D-Day were all too fresh, and after opening a card or two, starting to cry openly while in the store and finally just leaving. Like you, I couldn't deal with or relate to the sentiments expressed in the cards. I returned and just bought a nondescript humorous card. That experience happened several times. I no longer cry in the card shop , but to this day I don't even bother to look at the sentimental cards; I stick with the humorous or somewhat generic cards. And I no longer buy cards just for the heck of it. In fact, I generally avoid card browsing, which was something I once enjoyed doing.
You obviously have several choices based on your feelings as you describe them, including but not limited to: not buying a card at all, buying a sentimental card anyway even though your heart isn't in it, or buying either a "generic" message card or just a humorous card with little or no sentimentality. At the same time I know there are those who would advocate buying the sentimental card as encouragement for her efforts since D-Day and as a step in aiding recovery. Only you know what is best for you at this point.
Ideally, you could discuss with your W your feelings about your card buying experience at another time. Use it as a way of discussing your feelings and how you feel sad that your heart doesn't yet match the sentiments in the card, but that is something you hope will change over time as the two of you work through this. Obviously, I do not know whether or not the two of you can have this kind of discussion yet at this point in your recovery.
Good luck on whatever you decide. Know that you are not alone in your feelings about card buying post-A.
Oh, yes! I'm sure that I posted here about how I found a very amorous Valentines Day card that my husband had bought for the OW in his car (whereas I got the "plain-wrap" card that year. The following year (2007), I was shopping, saw that same card and broke down right in the store. I decided to call my H right there and then and tell him how I felt. He was understanding and told me he would never shop there again.
This year was hard, too, as we still have many unresolved issues. I had thought of not buying a card at all. Then I found one that said "You are the man I love.... and want to spend my life with." A true sentiment, even though it has been difficult. I added the following "poem" that I wrote to him, that can be taken at face value OR with irony (as some of the things were true then but have been broken since): (To explain line 2: we met on a ski lift)
What Made Me Fall For You
You were such a handsome devil.
You followed me down the mountain.
You didnÕt wait to call me.
.
You watched me clean my closet.
I remember the first time I went to buy a card after D-day. It was our anniversary. I read a few cards and had a panic attack and ran out of the store, through the mall and to the safety of my car. I was so embarrassed.
I still have a problem buying a card. A few times I've bought the humurous one, a few times I've bought a blank one and just wrote soemthing generic in it, a few times I didn't get him a card at all. This Valnetine's Day, I've got one foot in and foot out the door so it was really hard, not so much pain this time, just none of the cards fit. So the one I picked said something about being best friends and I wrote "I hope we can get back there one day".
I hope you were able to get through your card dilema without too much pain.
I didn't buy my H a card. Since this all started around Valentine's Day last year I just couldn't find it in my heart to give him words of acknowledgement. I do that in other ways and other days when I am so inspired. I just wasn't inspired this day and I let him take care of me. I am working hard on my own healing and recovery and I felt that I would have been giving more to his recovery and that in a sense would have taken away from my own. It's only Valentine's Day - a day designed to sell cards, candy, and flowers to the masses. In 5 years, when we are recovered, he's not going to remember that I didn't give him a card.
I do think, possibly it is easier for a woman to bow out of Valentine's Day than a man. But, under the circumstances, I think it falls to the WS, man or woman, to make the efforts on Valentine's Day. At least the first one or two after DDay. Maybe some will disagree and say that to recover the relationship both parties need to take these special times to acknowledge each other for the sake of the relationship. I just couldn't bring myself to do it.
Besides the lovely note and 3 dozen long stem rose arrangement he brought home, he told me that he had an appointment set up with the IC.
And, Hope, as much as getting flowers and a card may have pleased you, I'll bet his making an IC appointment for himself was much more meaningful to you. I know that my H's going for IC tells me he loves me and our marriage is important to him more than gestures ever could.
Well, Fairyfriend, its interesting that you brought that up. I was actually very pleased with the flowers. They are a sight to behold. I've never seen such a large arrangement in my life!
But, with regards to IC, I got a little tripped up this week because we were transferring e-mails so I was looking at some old e-mail during the process and saw one that I sent 1 month after dday with the names of counselor's he could go to that were free under my company's EAP. It's been 10 months since then and another very explicit request for him to go. And, then something came up and I had to say it again. It's been this way through the process the whole time. Push, push again, cry-scream-plead, push again, until finally he goes and does it. You know its not all that meaningful to me and I don't feel all that taken care of if he finally does something after I have to be put in the very uncomfortable position of pushing him to do it. So at this point, while I acknowledge that it was a huge personal step for him, he didn't do it in a particularly meaningful way FOR me. He did it under his rules and boundaries, he did it when he was ready. So did he really do anything at all FOR me? Did he make any sacrifice to make it happen? Did he just wait long enough that he can go in and say "this all happened a year ago and we seemed to be progressing, can I go now?"
I am happy for him that he did it. I hope that he finds a good counselor and that the person can help him see himself in a way that has him understand himself well enough to know if he really wants to be in this relationship. And, to find some tools and understanding for what he did so he can prevent the upset to his life that he will experience if he does it again.
I am totally fine with living with me, living on my own, finding a new partner that really loves me, respects me, and wants to be with me and only me at any time. If that is him, well that's outstanding because I really believe that that is the man he wants to be and can be. But, it if its not, I'll just move on. I'm good. I will not feel this horrible again about myself because of someone else's bad behavior. I'm absolutely committed to that.
If he wants to be immature in handling his personal confusion and issues then that is his choice. He's a man, he's an adult, he doesn't need me to carry him out of his pile of poop. He can do it on his own. I'm just not going to make it my responsibility to clean up the poop. I have enough poop in my life with 3 150 pound dogs in my life. I don't need my H's poop too!
Well, Hope, I can certainly understand why you are p.o.ed. I will also tell you that I have the feeling that many WS do not go to IC as soon as their BS would like them to go. I think it is likely because the WS are not strong enough to face up to their own demons, let alone the demons they unleashed in the marriage.
Having asked my H to go for MC back in 1999 after Dday #1 and been told that "he didn't need to go," only to find out on Dday #2 5 1/2 years later that he had NOT stopped seeing OW, only took his contact to his job where I did not have access to his phone or email, I certainly understand exactly why you are so unhappy with his waiting so long to go to IC.
Remember that just because a WS goes to IC and/or MC does NOT mean that the WS has changed at all--and probably hasn't if s/he is only going because the BS demands or expects IC/MC. When a WS is truly concerned about the BS and the marriage, then the WS goes for help. Perhaps your H is now realizing and accepting that NOT going is no longer an option and that if he doesn't go, you may give up on him and your marriage. Is it possible that he is concerned that you will leave him if he doesn't go and that he does not want that to happen?
BTW, it was an IC through my H's employer's EAP that I saw after Dday #1 in 1999. Her advice was beyond useless--it was downright harmful. Why? Because she told me that since I didn't want a divorce and since my H had promised he wouldn't have anything else to do with OW, everything was OK! I would have had better advice from reading tea leaves or consulting with the village idiot. I only mention this because in retrospect, we got what we paid for: nothing for nothing.
Maybe you can just step back and put down your H's hot potato. If he went for IC to please you, how much would he really put into it? (Ask Cal!) If he goes for himself, how much might he get out of it? I can only tell you that my H's going for himself has resulted in incredible personal growth for him because he went for HIMSELF, and because he did so, he has made and continues to make the effort to understand himself and to change the parts of himself that he was dissatisfied with. We can hope that your H's going now is a sign of his self-dissatisfaction and desire for real change and personal growth.
Failing all that, instead of cleaning up your three 150 lb dogs' poop, you could do something creative with it for your H!
My bad!
ff
edited to correct content error
This message has been edited by fairyfriend on Feb 16, 2008 1:04 AM
I'm not PO'd actually. I think the better word is disappointed or maybe confused. I just don't understand his logic. When he was feeling his worst he took his own council and that ended up in an A. Now he wants to take his own council again? I suppose he feels he learned so much from it and experienced so much pain through the recovery that he trusts that he'll never do it again. But, he can't answer the questions of what will he do when he feels this way again. He says "I don't know, but not that!" I just know that you have to have a plan in place to replace inappropriate behaviors with new ones before you get in that situation again. It's like not knowing CPR, seeing an accident and just standing there...if you don't make a plan, get CPR classes, then the next time your at an accident site - even though you acknowledged the severity of your mistake at the last accident, you didn't get the tools and training you needed to behave differently at the next accident.
So maybe I should phrase it differently to him. "My need is to have you find some tools and techniques to use if you find yourself having some of the same feelings in the future. I understand that you are working hard to prevent those feelings from happening and that is the best tool. But, the world has a way of putting challenges before us that are harder than the ones we've experienced before and I want to know how you are prepared to deal with it when another emotional challenge arises. I think that an IC might help you with this, but a chat room, reading books, or some inner self study would likely come up with similar results."
My EAP counselor was fine for me, I can work with just about anyone so long as the ask a decent question or two. With my H she really disappointed me. He has found his own, we agreed that the EAP route was probably not the best. I'm not sure if his is EAP or not.
I know it won't change him if he's just doing it as a checklist item and not with the intent to actually learn something. I'll have to give him some guidance on what it is I need him to accomplish. It may be that he is ready to face his demons but he doesn't want to commit to doing that with me so he's just dealing with it as a checklist item with me at the moment. We'll see.
Thanks for your input. I've been stuck on this one and haven't really been able to get my hands around it, you've really helped me.
One thing my H's IC (and mine and our MC) told my H is that simply deciding he wouldn't have another A was just NOT enough. He needs to have an actual plan in place. Here is a copy of his plan so far for your perusal. Perhaps this might help you explain to your H.
Maintain open and honest communication with fairyfriend. Do not let any internal resentment or misunderstanding build up from lack of sharing my feelings with her.
Resolve issues objectively. It is okay for us to not agree on all issues, as long as decisions are made with input from both partners and an acceptable (to both partners) compromise is achieved.
Do not take on emotional "hot potatoes" from family.
Avoid pornography of any kind or source, including adult chat groups. If I am feeling a desire to look at pornography, examine why I am having the urge (e.g. as an "escape" from anxiety, or because we are having sex less frequently), and correct the underlying feelings (manage stress in appropriate manners such as breathing techniques and exercise; plan a date with fairyfriend).
Respect women as people, do not view them as sexual objects. Dismantle the expectation learned from pornography that women desire sex any and all the time.
Maintain appropriate boundaries with women. No flirting with them. If any women are flirtatious with me, remove myself from the conversation/situation, and do not encourage the behavior. If it persists, verbalize a boundary to end said behavior.
Do not transfer sexual behaviors or expectations I have observed in porn to our sexual relationship. Respect any and all sexual boundaries fairyfriend has. Be comfortable and responsible in discussing our sexual relationship. Explore ways of mutually pleasuring one another that are acceptable to both of us (massage, etc.) to keep our sex fulfilling.
Let fairyfriend know where I am and my complete itinerary any time my routine is changed; e.g. need to stay late at the office, teaching weekends, out of town, etc. Make sure fairyfriend knows how to contact me. When out of town at meetings, call home regularly.
Keep my cell phone turned on any time I am not actually in a meeting so fairyfriend can contact me if needed.
Give fairyfriend my email passwords (work and home), as well as free access to my computer files.
Continue to abstain from alcohol or drugs. Recognize the connection between addictive beahaviors (drugs, alcohol, pornography).
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Feel free to share this list with your H as a model.
We haven't gone over the plan with our MC yet, but will probably do so next week. I'll be interested to hear her input, and if she tells us something important to add or change, I'll let you know.
Meanwhile, I believe that any WS' having an actual plan is a wonderful idea because it helps us BS to see that they have thought a great deal about their choices, don't wish to repeat the bad ones, and have decided what they need to do to avoid repeating the painful behaviors.
Last night I went over the goal with him for me. I explained that it was important to me that he have a plan now, that if he got there again then he'd already know what to do and he hadn't been able to tell me what he would do. He said, he would talk to me if he felt that way again. I told him that was good, but I wasn't sure he would do that because he tends to prefer his own counsil. He said he'd work on that and the other issues I'd brought up as reasons for going. He remembered "the other things"!!! I was really surprised. I thought he forgot the reasons and was just working through a task list of things to do. So he showed me that he really took my needs list to heart. He also mentioned that if it worked with this guy, who is not on the EAP, that we could then both go and work on the marriage/relationship. So he remembered request #2 as well. With all the time that passes between request and action, I fear that he forgets the purpose. But, he showed me that he didn't.
He also said that he knew it took awhile to get the appointment and he just works at his own pace, slow as it may be, he gets it done.
After all of that I felt very reassured that he was approaching the whole IC with mostly the right spirit and goals. He hasn't had a good experience with therapy yet but is willing to give it a shot. That's the only worry I have is that he'll have another bad experience and give up. We'll see.
, but to this day I don't even bother to look at the sentimental cards; I stick with the humorous or somewhat generic cards. And I no longer buy cards just for the heck of it. In fact, I generally avoid card browsing, which was something I once enjoyed doing.