I want to respond to a former posting in which Annonymous stated"
" It is not so much about looks, but how the OW makes them feel. Me and OW were opposites in many ways but also alike in many ways. It's not that she was better than me or prettier that me, she was simply different. The A is not about you, and it isnt even about the OW either...it is about what is/was going on inside of the WS and how they allowed themselves to cross the line. That is why they say the OW could have been anyone."

Thanks for sticking with me on this cause in my case, what I have been able to discern so far is that with my husband's affair, it WAS all about this specific woman, no matter how she looked. And that is what has troubled me in the year since D-Day.

I have longed thought that my husband, in his mind, at that time, felt he was in love with this woman. He denies every feeling that way. Yet I point out to him that there were dozens of women that, had they offered him sex, he would have turned them down. I go thru an entire roster of women and he turns his nose up at the thought of having sex with them, yet with this woman, he was particularly, specifically attractive to her and not anyone else. She was not his type either, did not have the body build that he so desires. He loves chesty women with big behinds. This gal was tall and skinny, had nothing upfront or in the rear.

We have not gone to counseling, as we have not been able to afford it. It has been a year since D-Day and i am just as confused, frustrated and hurt as ever because there has been no answers coming from him. He can't even tell me, a year into this, why he did what he did.

If anyone has any insights, I would appreciate it.

Thanks and God bless you
naomi

I've come to the conclusion that, while the affair partner was not "chosen" for anything particularly special about them, there is something about the affair partner that appeals to the spouse.

For example, in the case of my wife, she told me that she was embarassed at who the OM was. She said that before the affair (~3 months) she was aware of several of his qualities that turned her off. She also commented that as the affair progressed she continued to find things about him that she did not like. However, at the same time he treated her in ways that she liked and certain conceptions of him changed during the affair. She felt affectionate feelings toward him.

We concluded that there were men who she knew that it's very doubtful she would have been interested in because they were even less appealing than the OM. There was something about the OM that attracted her, despite all the other issues that turn her off. If my wife had not been vulnerable to an affair (i.e. not protecting herself from circumstances that could lead to one), then we doubt that any advances from the OM would have tempted her. The affair occurred with the OM because of a combination of both, my wife's issues and the OM's appeal.

As another example, take a man who chooses to engage in a one-night stand. He goes out to a bar or some place like that, finds a willing woman and has sex with her. He's there because of his own character issues, but the woman he chooses is based on a combination of who's willing, what compromises he's willing to accept, who appeals to him, and even simple timing. While the partner could have been anyone, she was also chosen for who she was.

I suspect this is how it happens in many situations. Wayward spouses are usually 'ready' to have an affair even before the opportunity presents itself. When the opportunity comes, then it's a matter of whether the OP is appealing or not, even if it's only marginally.

TomJ

I am the one who wrote the quote. I stand by what I wrote. Like Tom I feel the WS needs to also be ripe to have an A, and the OW must be willing and there must be something that does appeal to the WS in the OW. For many, like in my WH's case, the OW appealed because of our opposite qualities...had nothing to do with her looks, or body, which was the topic of the thread where you found my quote. It has to do with the way the WS feels around this person, whcih is why perhapas someone more attractive physically doesnt do it for them. In my case the OW would get high with my WH, buy him "killer weed" as he put it and enabled his addiction. With me, I do not get high and I was on his case trying to get him to quit. So along came OW who tells him he is mr. wonderful and buys him weed and smokes it with them, they develope a friendship and then they take it further. She made him feel better about himself because she condoned what he was doing and neither of them saw anything wrong with what they were doing. And that's what WH found appealing about her....POT!

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Thanks TomJ and Annonymous for your replies. And Annon - i agree with you - in the case of my husband i do feel that it was about the OW specifically. The posts at that other topic - tho i am not disagreeing with them - but in my case, it was about how she looked, who she was, in other words - it was specific to her. Which makes me wonder if my husband truly did have feelings for her, despite his protests that he did not.

He has said that once their affair was consumated, he ended it because of the guilt. He has never said that he ended it because he wanted to come back to me, or realized that i was the one he really wanted. Just that he ended it because it was the wrong thing to do. When he is not so focused on trying to say the right things about his affairs, he also says that it took him a long time to get over her.
Now does that sound like a man who is just after sex? To me, it doesn't. It sounds like a man who was smitten by a woman, infatuated? Had a crush on her? "In like" with her? In love? Whatever word you want to put to it, in my heart of hearts, despite his protestations, i feel that he connected with her on an emotional, personal level and that perhaps had he not been married, he would have continued with her.

Yes Naomi - I know your doubts and questions.  The responses you have already are mainly making the point about the underlying openness of the WS before the A to have an A.  This, for me, leads to a sad and deep understanding of how we were in our relationship before the A and a recognition that she was open to the A and that I could not do anything about it.  Now my problem is to review how we are together and see if we can make a good relationship or not based on where we have got to at this point.  Have you talked through you your doubts and questions with spouse?

may you be safe and well, contented and happy

Naomi,

It is also entirely possible that right now your H believes that he was infatuated with that particular woman. Given that you two have had no counseling, I am not particularly surprised by his declaration. However, I do believe that after both of you learn more about the nature of A, there is a great likelihood that you will come to understand that A are ALL about the WS and not about the BS or even the OP. All the OP has to do is be available to have an A with. When WS are out of the A fog, they realize that what they really enjoyed about the A was the attention and the escape. The particular person the OP was didn't matter nearly so much as the attention and the mirroring did.

I am so sorry you are hurting. We all understand how you feel, having been cheated on ourselves.

Huge comforting fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

Once again, thanks to all who have responded. I do appreciate your insight and caring.

My husband has never come to an understanding of why he did what he did. That angers me, confuses me, frustrates me - and just about anything else you can think of! I have read that unless the WS comes to that understanding, they may commit adultery again. So????

The one thing that he has said is that he was not in a fog. I have read many books this past year - and read much of them to him - in order to get an understanding of what prompted him, what motivated him, etc etc into these affairs. When i talk to him about the fog, he says that that doesn't apply to him. He says he never felt that he was in a fog, that he never "woke up" out of the fog, etc etc.

He says that he always wanted to be married to me, that he was not dissatisfied with the marriage. He won't even claim that sex was the motivating factor.

For many of the affairs, he claims he can't remember. But his most recent affair was just last year - and still he can't remember. He says he likes being the knight in shining armor to women. And yet with me - he refused to my knight. I have had several tragic events in my life - yet my husband was not there for me. When my father died at the age of 57, i had to find comfort in the arms of my 7 year old daughter, cause my husband wasn't there.

I miscarried our third child and the following day he was making plans to go to his high school reunion without me. When i asked him to stay home, he was furious with me.

He also says that he liked the way he looked in the AW's eyes. Yet I have always been my husband's biggest fan - and he knows that. Anytime in our marriage, if someone critisized my husband, i came to his defence, even if it meant i had to embarrass myself. I have told him for 33 years that i always knew i had the best husband and that no one could hold a candle to him.

So you can see, none of this makes sense to me. He wasn't unhappy with me. He says he was in love with me and wanted our marriage. He wasn't looking for sex. He wasn't looking to replace me. He wanted to be their knight - but he didn't want to be my knight. He liked the way he looked in their eyes - but he ignored the way he looked in mine. Even with those - being the knight, liking the way he looked - he can't say for certain that those are the reasons he had an affair. If i ask was it for the thrills -the answer is maybe? If i ask, was it about the chase? the hunt? His answer is the same.

I could go on and on cause it gets more bizarre than this. Maybe i will save that for another post.

God bless each of you
naomi

Naomi,

Your H CLEARLY has huge, astronomically huge, issues. He desperately NEEDS IC. He can claim he wasn't in a fog as much as he wants to, but the evidence is 100% to the contrary. I'll bet that if you ask any FWS here, each one will tell you that while s/he was in the midst of the A, s/he didn't believe s/he was in a fog. However, once that same WS got IC and MC, each could see clearly that the whole A experience was fog-shrouded.

I hope that if you can find some kind of IC that you can afford, that you go for yourself even if your H refuses to go. I can not overemphasize that your H behavior was 100% his own and that you are in NO way to blame for his decisions, including his choice to get involved with OW.

I am so sorry for your continued pain.

ff

Naimi,

My H also liked the way he looked in OW's eyes..he also told me he was in love with OW..so I understand your feelings.

once in IC..My H found out that the OW was a symbol or substitute for many things that were happening in his life.. the OW make him feel wonderful he was MR. WONDERFUL in her eyes..she played on his needs and he took care of her..which was something he was searching for.

H didn't see me .hear what I was saying to him ...I also was his biggest supporter...but I was the wife ..my words fell on deaf ears..
Once my H realized what the OW was a symbol for ...she could have been any BODY..it wasn't about her but about what was happening in my H's head..

hope this helps.. I am so sorry that you are struggling with this issue..

((((hugs)))

Pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

Yikes, Naomi! How many affairs are we talking about? We all know that one is too many, but certainly a history of repeating affair behavior speaks to deep psychological issues that your H needs to address.

Even if he isn't willing to go to IC or if the money isn't there, what do you know about his childhood? His family of origin? Big emotional moments in his life? When the layers of the "why does he do this" onion start to get peeled back, these are the places where a lot of the answers lie. Who taught him that validation at home has little or no value, but validation through others is paramount? Who taught him that its important to "rescue" people to have value and that role supercedes loving, honoring and being there for one's family?

Its easy, Naomi, to get distracted by the physical attributes of an OP. If they look similar to us, we question why our spouse would stray when we already were sexually what they were looking for. If they look very different from us, our esteem is crushed and we're confused because,why were they with us in the first place if this other person is their type? If the OP was more attractive than us, we start justifying that the affair happened because we are not "enough". But the physical attraction element is low on the list of what made the A happen.

Before a person goes looking for an A, there is a mindset of justification that needs to happen. They may be telling themselves that their spouse is lacking or that they're misunderstood at home or they're not "getting enough". These are superficial reasons used to rationalize comprising their values, integrity, morals. But all of this is happening PRIOR to looking for or finding an OP. Their soul is troubled for some reason. A healthy person whose soul is troubled looks to solve the problem, i.e., talking with their spouse, their priest or rabbi, a counselor, etc. An unhealthy person does something even more damaging to the marriage relationship, runs from the intial issue towards fantasy, and hides behind excuses for why they chose escapism vs. handling whatever the problem was.

I don't know what your H is running from inside of himself, but somewhere within him, is an insatiable need for validation from others and he's turned a deaf ear towards hearing your need for him. But the why's of that won't be found looking at any of the OP's physical attributes. If he's infatuated or having trouble getting over one of them, it probably has much more to do with missing their flattery, attentiveness and willingness to play the game that somehow the A is justifiable. He's hooked on running away, but not so much that he doesn't want to be married. There's something screwed up in that logic. If he doesn't see that his reasoning is skewed, then whether he's willing to admit it or not, he's in a fog.

Hugs to you for working so diligently on your own to get at the heart of the matter. Is there a church you're affilated with that would provide some measure of counseling to you? Is there a college nearby that has a school of pyschology that may have a way to provide you services for little or no money?

Whether you're able to find a way to obtain counseling or not, I think it might be helpful to consider what you can do on your end to find and uphold your boundaries and give your H consequences to his mistreatment towards you and the marriage.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you. BlueIris



"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Naomi,

Purhaps you will find some of your answer by reading some on Sex/Love Addicts. It seems this better suits your husband. Multi affairs over a span of years, carry different issues for the WS.

Ami

I want to thank all of you for taking the time to read my postings and for your postings as well. It's nice to know that others care and are willing to take the time to listen and advise.

I would very much like to have counseling - for myself and for my husband. I try to probe his mind as much as i can, but i am not a psychiatrist. A year into this, when i had hoped that i would be healed, i find myself just as entangled with it as ever. I don't have to have triggers anymore to set me off cause everything causes triggers - everything. Even those things that don't make sense, remind me of his affairs. He had 5 of them over the course of 33 years. There wasn't sexual intercourse, but there was sex and lots of kissing. As soon as those things occured, he broke it off with the women.

To the contrary, he says he never felt he was in a fog, nor that he woke up from one.

Annonymous you said "My H found out that the OW was a symbol or substitute for many things that were happening in his life.. the OW make him feel wonderful he was MR. WONDERFUL in her eyes..she played on his needs and he took care of her..which was something he was searching for." In my eyes, my husband had always been Mr. Wonderful and i certainly had needs - so why didn't he see my needs, why didn't he want to take care of me?

My husband is a perfectionist. Whatever job he tackles, it has to be perfect. If he mows the lawn - it has to be perfect - in fact he would never let me or the kids mow the lawn cause we weren't perfect enough. If he needed to paint a room - again, only he could do that since he couldn't trust any of us to live up to his standards. He was the same way at work, in his social life, with his family, etc etc. So why didn't he want to be the perfect husband? Why didn't he want the perfect marriage. Why didn't he strive for those things?

Nothing makes sense.

I do know that early on in his childhood, he was taught by his father to lust after women. His father would take him to the barbershop and pay him money to find attractive women for his father to look at. This happened when he was a preschooler. His father, always openly made lustful comments about women, no matter where he was or who he was with - or if the women could hear him.

He had no validation at home. He was an A+ student athelete who won an atheletic scholarship to college and yet his parents never acknowledged any of that. They never acknowledged his college degree, nor his successful career. All he has received from them is that no matter how well he did, he could have done better.

His family is also very unto themselves. They don't take care of the needs of others, they don't even care. So i have no idea where he learned that validation came thru rescuing other people, being the knight in shining armor to someone else.

My whole point about the physical attributes of one of my husband's OW was that it wasn't about her attributes at all. I have felt and still do, that with this particular women, it was more than physical, that he was in love with her, specifically her.

I have asked my husband over and over as to how he justified his affairs and the answer is always the same - he doesn't know because he doesn't remember, even tho his last affair before his big confession was just last year and it had been going on for years - tho it was never consumated, so to speak.

At one point in our marraige, I sent him to a psychologist because he was having problems. He had the opportunity to at least come straight with the dr. but even then he did not tell him that he was having affairs. He has never sought help - even when it was right there for him.

For a time we were counceling at our church but the problem there is that we were personal friends with the counselor, so we found it very hard to reveal all the things we were dealing with. I am going to look into more counseling. I still have questions that have no answers and I can't live like that. It's eating up inside. I phsycially groan now when the remembrances of his affairs are brought to my mind. I don't do it on purpose, it's a knee jerk response i can't control because it happens before i even know it is going to happen.

Sorry this posting is so long. God bless you for your patience with me. I am typically not a "downer" but try very hard to stay focused on the good things in life, but a year ago, my life ended. What was truth, became a lie and what was lie because the truth. I don't have a past, cause the past i thought i had, i never had. When you find out that for all your married life, your husband has been unfaithful - you even begin to wonder if you were even married, since he broke our marriage vows within months of our wedding - and never rededicated those vows, just continued on in his cheating.

Naomi,

FYI, my H was the WS. Just this past year the IC/MC he and I have been seeing tested him and diagnosed him as having Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (NOT the same as Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder which I have). I am not a therapist, but much of what you wrote about your H fits with the behaviors my H had. May I suggest that you do some reading on OCPD?

Remember that HE had and has the problem, NOT YOU!!!

Encouraging fairy hugs,

fairyfriend

I came upon a letter my W wrote to her sister, & diary entries fawning over the "easygoing good looks" of OM #1, "foxy" OM #4, how OM #3 had a "sturdy" penis, and intimate details of a wonderful, sexy 2 hour session she spent with OM #2, her "angel".

I saw all of the OM except for #1. They all looked OK, I guess, but I think in her promiscuous frame of mind she would have basically screwed anyone who winked at her.
BB

Dearest Naomi, There are pieces of your story that hit very close to home for me. I was especially affected by your last paragraph:

"a year ago, my life ended. What was truth, became a lie and what was lie because the truth. I don't have a past, cause the past i thought i had, i never had. When you find out that for all your married life, your husband has been unfaithful - you even begin to wonder if you were even married, since he broke our marriage vows within months of our wedding..."

I know to my core exactly what you're talking about. Through all the uncovering of information regarding my H's 3 year EA/PA, I also learned of a hidden sexual addiction that he's had basically his entire life, that was on-going while we were engaged. There is no part of my married life with him that I can't look at without feeling it is tainted, dirty and somehow irretrievably lost as I knew it. The disorientation and loss of identity from these feelings is inexplicable except to others who share that same pain. For that, I wrap my arms around you now, and say from the bottom of my heart: I know. I know.

I can't take that pain away. No one can. However, my H and I are on the path towards successful recovery from this nightmare, so I stand here before you as proof that you can come out of this.

My H has OCD which was a contributing factor to his downfall. After DDay, beginning MC and IC and coming to terms with all I found, he admitted to being a sexual addict. One of the things he did in response to this and his OCD was to go on meds. It helped separate out anxiety issues that propelled him towards OCD behavior and addictive behavior and allowed him to more clearly access his emotions instead of (a) covering them up in repetitive, controlling behaviors and (b) running away from them in sexually addictive behaviors.

Though Healing Hearts has been my lifeline in surviving this situation the last 18 months, I want to recommend a website that may give you needed information towards determining if your H is a sexual addict or love addict. Its called: Recovery Nation. Below is a link to the site; of special interest for me is the Partners Workshop. Even if your H ends up not fitting in that category, I think there is A LOT of valuable information at this site that could be helpful.

I'm so sorry for your pain. My heart grieves for you and for me and for all of us that suffer the pain of feeling like we lost everything. ((((((((((((Naomi))))))))))))) BlueIris

Recovery Nation:

http://www.recoverynation.com/index.htm

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Dear BlueIris and everyone else who has posted here - again, thank you so much.

First let me say, I am so sorry for what you have been thru. Like you, after my husband confessed his 5 affairs, he also confessed to a sexual addiction. To be honest, my husband confessed to a secret life that i knew nothing about. How can you live with someone for 33 years and not have the slightest inkling that these things are going on - daily???????

Anyhow, BlueIris, is it possible for you to email me so that we can discuss this? I tried to find your email address, but being new here and not all that computer-savy - I was not able to do so.

BlueBayou, my heart goes out to you. I am so sorry for all the affairs of your wife. I realize that it is all relative, yet at the same time, I think that each case of adultery has a personal pain all unto itself. I can't say for certain if it is somehow "easier" that a WS only had 1 affair and that it is worse if they had multiple. Yet at the same time, is it worse when the WS has been involved emotionally and physically with the same person over an extended period of time, as opposed to a WS who hops from bed to bed? I don't have those answers, but i know the pain and again, I am so sorry.

FairyFriend - I will check into what you have posted. I have come to the decision that regardless of our finances, i need to find a professional to talk to - and i think my husband needs it too. He is 100% remorseful. He hates what he did and he hates how much he has hurt me. We both want to push past this. We both need healing.
Again - thanks and I will certainly look into the OCPD. We have come to the conclusion, just this past year that my husband does exhibit many Obessive-Compulsive Behaviors. Our daughter was diagnosed with that many years ago. We never knew where it came from - until this past year, digging deep into my husband's behavior.

God bless all of you
naomi

>>>>"I can't say for certain if it is somehow "easier" that a WS only had 1 affair and that it is worse if they had multiple. Yet at the same time, is it worse when the WS has been involved emotionally and physically with the same person over an extended period of time, as opposed to a WS who hops from bed to bed?"<<<<

You know, I've often wondered the same thing, Naomi.
There are "pros" (if you can really call them that) and cons to both angles. Even a single one night stand is a rotten situation for the BS.

Anyway, my heart also goes out to you, and to everyone else on HH who has had to live through this.
BB

Hi Naomi.
Just wanted to add my name to the list of caring,loving people who know what you are going through. And, like Blue said, I truly do not believe that anyone who has not experienced the horror of infidelity can understand in the way that everyone here can. I am lucky to have found a really wonderful, insightful IC who has helped me enormously yet there are times that I know she just doesn't understand on a gut level how it feels.

My story is like so many others and yet has its own unique characteristics. H had EA 8 years before D Day (which was 2 and half years ago) followed by many other dalliances - he has admitted to one ONS, one PA and several flirtations that were not sexual (or so he says). All his A's were with OW half his age that worked for him. He was President of a company and "preyed" on the young, stupid and very willing girls that worked there. It still sickens me to think that I was married to that kind of man and didn't know it.

The length of time and the number of betrayals turned my whole world black and unsteady. I am not sure if my H was technically a sexual addict - he was more of an admiration addict. I believe that sex was secondary for him, though critical to feeling admired.

Oh, my lying cheating H was also actively alcoholic, though he has been sober since D Day.

I was shocked and traumatized to discover that my H had a very active secret life. I truly believed that I was married to a man who was honorable and had integrity. Suddenly, my entire life became a lie. I couldn't tell what was real, what was faked, what was sincere and loving, what was an attempt to deceive. No event in our past was pure - all was poisoned by his other life. My reality was stolen and replaced by a freak show....and by the person that I thought loved me. My H stole my ability to choose the kind of M and H wanted.

But, like Blue, I can offer you hope. We are well on our way to a better M. My H has grown and changed in remarkable ways...he has looked at himself, his behavior and wanted to change. There are still rough times for me....this morning I thought about a trip we went on that was particularly romantic and then I realized it took place after he had been unfaithful and felt sick.

I will never be the same and our M will never be the same. And, mostly, that is a good thing. The sense of loss and the bitterness of betrayal has receded but time will tell if I can truly incorporate what has happened into my past without feeling overwhelmingly sad.

I meant this post to be hopeful because that is mostly how I feel....and I'm even glad that we were shocked into doing something about our M....just wish it hadn't come with such a big price tag.

You are all very kind in your concern and expressions of sympathy.

Blue Bayou - I read your story and it is just truly amazing. Words fail - what can I say? I am so sorry

Susan - you have expressed so many of the thoughts and feelings i have had over this past year. Like you, my husband desired to be desired, admired. He also liked being the knight in shining armor. He loved the way he looked in these women's eyes - but he never cared for the way he looked in mind and he never wanted to be my knight. The question is why?

I struggle with why my husband married me in the first place if he knew he was like this and wasn't ready or willing to settle down and be true to his marriage vows. Why was having affairs an option for him? We were both raised in church-going families. We knew the commandment "thou shalt not commit adultery". We didn't come from families who had affairs or even divorce.

I have asked him so many times why he thought it was ok what he was doing? How did he justify it - even tho any justification, rationalization would have been wrong. How did he say to himself "i can do this because______?????" What was the carrot that was dangled in his face?

So what do you do if you never get those answers?

Anyhow, thanks Susan. I do appreciate all that you posted.

God bless all of you
naomi

<<I have asked him so many times why he thought it was ok what he was doing? How did he justify it - even tho any justification, rationalization would have been wrong. How did he say to himself "i can do this because______?????" What was the carrot that was dangled in his face?>>

For each and every WS the answer to this question will be different. But you are right, no justifcation, rationalization, or excuse will ever be good enough because having an A is never the answer to any issue, marital or personal, or otherwise. But through their answers, if they are being honest, you may find a sense of understanding what your WS was/is going through at the time of the A and why they are not out of the fog if the A has indeed ended. Understanding something is not the same as condoning or forgiving. This may also give the WS a better understanding of themselves. It usually takes IC/MC to get down to the root of the problem for the WS. Im not saying it cannot be done otherwise, but even with IC it is difficult for the WS to look deep inside of themselves and deal with their dark issues that led to the A and the pain they have caused others because of it. It is unlikely that unless the WS deals with these issues that will be capable of "getting it". As the others have pointed out, if the WS can do this deep down soul searching then there can be much hope. And some need to dig deeper than others.

For my WH, as others here on the board, much of my WH's justification was due to some type of addiction. My WH is a workoholic and he is addicted to pot. In his mind, he worked so hard so he was entitled to smoke pot (although it is is illegal, he is "special") and relax. Since he worked so hard and he needed to "relax" after work, and I didn't smoke pot to relax, he felt justified in finding someone else who would (the OW). Of course late at night all alone together and high, who was it hurting if they had sex? His justification for sex with OW was what I didnt know obviously would not hurt me. He knew it was wrong but his father did it, all of his uncles did it, so why not him? It is almost a birth-right and tradition in their family for men to have mistresses. My IC has also pointed out that there may be underlying issues as well. Such as OCD, or ADHD, or even personality disorders such as Bi-Polar, or NPD, or BPD. Of course these can only be diagnosed by a professional. But many people who have these disorders have substance abuse of addictive problems as well.

Then of course there is the rewriting of marital history that many WS's claim. Many will say "I have not been happy for years", and "I love you but Im not in love with you". These are all classic justifications, and are usually simply not true, but they feel unhappiness and not loving their partner makes it OK to cheat on them. This makes them feel less guilty. They blame the BS or the marriage. Of course neitehr are to blame, it was a chocie the WS made all on their own without our permission...so they own it! Do not accept blame for the A.

I hope the two of you find some answers and some peace ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))


~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

Dear Naomi,

Though its important to try and find understanding about what your H did, part of understanding addiction, is that there isn't necessarily a rational, logical way for non-addicted people to comprehend the addictive process. So, though its important to understand that the neglect your H received from his parents probably had a hugely negative emotional impact on him, it won't necessarily be easy to comprehend how that neglect then propels him towards an addiction.

I've copied some parts of "understanding addiction" from recovery nation to this post. Its a pretty clear explanation of the process. I hope it helps. Even understanding this process, I still struggle with wanting it all to make sense to me because I like to have a logical understanding of my world. Sometimes, sadly, the answer is our Hs had an illogical answer to managing anxiety/stress/discomfort. Here's the addiction info:

"A compulsive behavior is one in which a person feels compelled to act in a certain way. All of us have compulsions to one degree or another and many times these compulsions benefit us. Compulsions like checking doors to ensure they are locked or looking in on an infant three or four times each night might seem like normal behavior, even necessary behavior, until you consider a person's reaction when those behaviors are not completed. That's what can signal a problem. That's the difference between a healthy compulsion and one that is problematic--the anxious, uncomfortable feeling that continues to build until you finally complete the particular behavior. With such a compulsion, it's never a matter of whether or not you will complete the behavior; rather, it's a matter of how long you can hold out until the behavior must be completed. The longer you abstain, the more anxiety that is experienced; thus, the more relief that is achieved once the behavior is completed.

An addiction is any consistent pattern of such compulsive behavior that produces a significantly negative effect on that person's life. And no matter how sad, angry, ashamed or guilty a person may feel because of this pattern, they cannot make themselves stop. Not permanently, anyway. The pattern continues to grow. The destructive consequences continue to mount. Gradually, the compulsive behavior and accompanying obsessive thoughts become ingrained and begin to replace the person's existing values. The compulsive patterns become a part of their core value system--the addiction itself becomes how they identify themselves. Without this pattern in their life, they feel incomplete--as if something is missing. Everything else--friends, family, job--it all lacks the ability to provide the same comfort and stability as the performance of the compulsive behavior(s).

The need for addiction arises when an individual lacks the life skills and balance to effectively manage their emotional response to life's events. The stress can be a single catastrophic event (e.g. rape, death) or a long-term progression (e.g. career, marriage). It can arise from childhood (e.g. neglect, abuse) or the future (e.g. mortality, security). It can be external (e.g. social interactions, financial obligations) or internal (e.g. mental illness, emotional instability). The stress can even be created by the repetition of stress-relieving activities (e.g. smoking, shopping, sex). This last example is a classic for the progressiveness and cyclic nature of the disease. And because every person is unique, each has their own way of maintaining emotional comfort. When a stressor is introduced which interferes with that comfort, the mind and body react to reestablish the feeling of normalcy. When that reaction involves compulsively repeating unhealthy patterns which contradict the values a person holds, the process of addiction has begun. The longer a person relies on addictive behavior to comfort them, the less they rely on their values. When a person has lost all connection with those values, the addictive process has fused, making it virtually inseparable from the core of their identity."

I hope this info helps a little. BlueIris


"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Blue Iris is right...

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

As Cal so wisely wrote, there are endless ways they justify the As (For my H, it was all the things Cal wrote about - entitlement, won't hurt anybody, I care more about kids than him, belief that he is special/above conventional morality, fear of being caged, fear of getting old, fear of boredom, the world should understand and make allowances for his needs, not really that important, blah, blah, blah.)

In truth, he became addicted to the thrill, the excitment and the admiration. That, coupled with his addiction to alcohol, created the disaster that was his/our life.

The problem that I have had for a long time is the naive belief that his love for me should have been able to conquer all of his issues, should have been powerful enough to keep him faithful and to keep him from risking our relationship and my health. But, I now know that no love is more powerful than the love of the addiction and that no matter how much I love him, that love cannot overcome the pain and sickness that drive people to cheat.

There is some comfort there for me. Thinking that way helps me believe that it was not my deficiencies that led to his infidelities. Whenever I am drawn to thinking, "if only I had paid more attention, if only I had shown more love, " I stop myself and remember that there was not enough love in the world to keep my H from cheating.

Susan - Great post! I completely agree with you about the naive mindset. Its in many ways the love theory that many of us were raised on - that love is all powerful and will conquer all. Not!

My guess is when I share your post with my H he will say that he did not have a "love" for his addiction...and I think I believe that. But he certainly wasn't compelled to look at his problem and try to fix it, so in that sense, he protected the addiction more than he protected me or the marriage. Love vs. protection = potato/potah-to. Same result, eh?

Thanks for your thoughts on this. They're a good reminder not to get sucked into detrimental reflection. Hugs as always to you (and hoping you are well!). BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

>the love theory that many of us were raised on - that love is all powerful and will conquer all. Not!

The problem with the typical 'love theory' is that it promotes love as a feeling more than love being a way of living. Love is much more than a feeling.... love is what you do; it's evident when you serve others. When you get down to the truth of love, I have to stop and wonder how many of the people who get married do so in true love verse how many are trying to get something for themselves.

Love isn't how my wife makes me feel, it's what I do for benefit, just like the love of a good parent for their children. I love my kids just as much (and possibly more) when I give them what they need over what they want, as when I give them what they desire.

I don't think you can build a marriage on the feeling of "love", it has to be based loving actions.

TomJ

Dear BlueIris,
Thanks for your posting about addictions. It makes a whole lot of sense and I feel it applies to my husband.

Is it possible for you to email me?

God bless you
naomi

Naomi - You can email me at blueiris22@comcast.net.

Though its in response to your other thread about contacting the OW to ask questions, I would echo one of the sentiments voiced previously. Whether or not the OW voices a belief in being a good Christian really has no bearing on how honest she will truly be with you...or with herself. Sadly, many people, despite their best intentions and in contrast to their public selves, behave completely differently behind closed doors. In the "Deeper Healing" section is a thread by Angella who was betrayed by a Christian husband with a Christian woman with the affair happening in a church, and sadly, the A was in many ways condoned by the church congregants and minister. The OW in your situation has labelled herself as a Christian. Whether or not she lives up to the label is sadly not something you can blindly trust.

It strikes me that you are again trying to find logic and rationale based on how you believe the world to be: a husband living a life of integrity could never cheat on his wife, a Christian would always be truthful. I've learned that "always" and "never" statements are something to question more often than not. Infidelity challenges how we perceive the world and forces us in many ways to see it more for what it is, as opposed to what we think it should be or what we dreamed it to be.

Hope you're doing well today, Naomi. I know its a hard journey. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

Anyone can claim to be a Christian, that doesnt mean they act like it!

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha