I've been coming to this site for over a year now, mostly to read others posts, sometimes to post myself. Since that DDay last February I've been trying to decide which way to go. I've been unhappy in this marriage for nearly 5 years now. Along with H's A or EA I have endured his lying in various other areas, his selfishness and refusal to be a part of our family, his mistreatment of our children and his unwillingness to be responsible financially. But I've been afraid of trying to make it on my own.
Recently I've felt the need to decide once and for all what I want to do concerning our marriage because I've been fence sitting. I know we can't go on and on this way. I've already been seriously considering divorce and trying to look at all the areas that will need to be addressed in the event. Alot of things have continued to come to light. H still lies about things in general. But the most painful of all is what I'm finding out from my kids. At lunch one day with the kids and my mom, my daughter informed us that H had told them (her and my son) that he hated them. I was shocked but somehow not completely surprised. What a horrible thing for 2 little 4 year-olds to hear from their dad! He also flies off the handle with them, cusses at them and says things that are way out of line. My son was upset at bedtime the other night because H had given him his sisters toothbrush instead of his. H was annoyed that DS was making such a fuss about it and I heard him say in a low voice "Put the SOB in your mouth now!" After reading about emotional abuse on this site today, I know I have to wake up to the fact that that is what is going on here. I can't let my kids continue to be hurt in this way.
I am trying to figure out how to go about things. H owned our house before I came into the picture. I know that he would not leave if I told him I want a divorce--he considers the house HIS even though my name is on it too. I don't think I could handle the tension of living here together until everything is final. But I also don't want to go stay somewhere else and lose all rights to the house due to abandonment. I could really use some advice on this issue. I am planning to see an attorney soon. But any advice or auggestions in the meantime would be much appreciated.

Thank you
K

I am so sorry for the abuse you and your poor children are living with. Right now I would let the kids spend as little time as possible with your H. Can you get them into counseling.

Start documenting what you see/hear and is told to you by the kids or anyone else.

Call an attorney TODAY. You can probably get an appt for next week for a free consult. Have all the financial facts together when you meet with him/her. Know how much the house is worth, how much H paid for it, how much is still owed on it. They can give you a general idea of what you will get in child support/spousal support and what is considered marital assets.

Good luck to you. I know this wont be any easy.

((((hugs))))

Lisa

I would say it is time to take some kind of action. Your kids can not be subjected to this any longer. You shouldn't either but as an adult you do have some control in this and some understanding of his words don't mean that is who you are. These little ones have no control. Also thier self image is being formed here and thier father's opionion of them is a huge part of it. If you can't leave immediately you do need to limit H'd contact with these kids. They must be protected above all else.

Trinity

From what I've heard, docuementation is key in dealing with abuse. Get a notebook or diary, enter every fact that you can remember regarding past abuse. Be as detailed as you can and as specific as you can remember. Then start to log any new events as they occur, again with as much detail and as many specifics as you can. Of course you'll want to keep this hidden. You can also put it on a computer and protect the docuement with a password. The password will keep the docuement from being read by your husband, but he will be able to delete it.

If you can prove abuse, I'm fairly certain that you'd be able to have him legally barred from entering the home, but your attorney will be able to give you a qualified profession opinion on that as well as any other steps that you can take.

TomJ

(((((((((((((((((((((((((K))))))))))))))))))))))))

I sadly don't have a lot of practical advice coming to mind, though I'll be thinking of you throughout the day and hopefully will come up with something. In the meantime, because my own childhood is so marred with emotional abuse from my Dad, I wanted to say just a couple of quick things to you. (Well, "quick" isn't my strong suit, so I apologize if this becomes long.)

In all the talking I've done with my IC about my childhood, it is very clear that I see my Dad as my first betrayer. He should have been a kind and loving parent that I could depend on as a source of love and safety. The issues I've dealt with all my life...and still deal with...have everything to do with the terror our family lived in because we never knew when to expect his top to blow and his rage to rule. He was not physically abusive, but the damage he did is quite pervasive and reaches across time still today. My own inner adult voice is still often shouted down by the things he said to me 40 years ago. It remains an uphill internal battle for me.

My IC was quite surprised that I don't view my Mom also as a betrayer. She believes my mom should've saved us...by standing up to my dad...by shielding us more...or by leaving him. I can not view her that way. My mom is all about love, and I very clearly see that she was as stuck as my sister and I. There was no standing up to my dad. There was no way to shout him down. All three of us were in many ways at his mercy. Thankfully, for business he travelled a lot, so there were reprieves.

I remember begging my mom to divorce my dad when I was in my teens. It made no sense to me that she would stay with a man who could be insulting, belittling, and completely irrational. In tears, she told me she loved him. We never had that conversation again; I knew the answer would always be the same.

The imprint this left on me and the lessons I learned about what a woman should endure when she loves a man take monumental effort now to correct.

Why am I telling you all of this? First, I want you to know your kids see what's going on - even at 4 years old, bless their hearts. They see you for who you are and the situation you are in. Whether they know the down and dirty details or not, they know you are about love. It doesn't mean they don't love their dad. I still love mine. But it has become a complicated relationship that is interwoven with fear and anger. And why wouldn't it? He reaped what he sowed.

Secondly, 40 years ago, divorce wasn't unheard of, but there was more of a stigma to it, I think, and certainly less protection through the legal system. Opportunitites for women in the workforce were different then. Yet I still understand the feeling of being stuck...of not wanting to be defined as a "divorced woman"...and of facing whatever hardships that might mean for myself and my kids. Without knowing one's right, it's terrifying to think about just the basics of where do we live? How do we eat? How do I make sure the kids are provided for? If I were currently in a situation with an unremorseful spouse, I sadly don't know that I would have the strength to leave to save us...specifically because of all my crappy childhood lessons. And so I am so, so incredibly proud of you, K, for the strength I see in you to be considering this difficult step...to be looking for help...to be calling an attorney...to do what you need to do to protect your kids and yourself. The lessons you give your children about how you value them, about how you value yourself, about having boundaries, about respect and about love - - you in many ways are helping determine their destiny by showing them what behavior is acceptable to live with and what is unacceptable. I would have been willing to eat government cheese if it had meant living in a peaceful, non-threatening environment.

I love my mom. I forgive her completely for not having saved us when my sister and I were little. I look at you and your kids now, K, and what you're going through and its like I've time travelled back into my own life...and I am rooting for you and your efforts like my life depended on it. You can do this. You deserve to be happy. You all deserve to be at peace in your home. You all deserve to feel loved.

So I guess this is a message from an emotional abuse survivor just to tell you that I am in your corner. I see the difficult position you are in, but want you to know I am cheering for your bravery, determination and love for your kids. I truly believe good things will follow this good path. That is my prayer and hope. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

I will also say see a lawyer first ... just because you see a lawyer doesn't mean that you have to act on the divorce ASAP.. the lawyer is a good source of information for you..

The next thing is to find a good lawyer.. one who will protect you and your children..ask for recommendations from friends and family.

(((hugs)))

Pat

"Time is precious, but truth is more precious than time."

My daughter's therapist flat out told me that my WH is messing up his kids...that he is hurting them emotionally. I have to listen because I love my children dearly. These are the cases where you cannot stay for the children sakes, cause it is causing more damage than it would if you left. I know he is their father, and there will always be contact whether I stay or go. However, I can minimize the damage, one, by them going to therapy, and two, by letting them see their mother being strong and standing up to their father. Children learn by example. The stronger you are and the more you stand up for you and for them the better it will be for your children and yourself. Your H is a bully...plain and simple! You have to stand up to bullies or they continue to beat you down, whether it is with their fists or their words....both hurt emotionally.

After I told our oldest son, who will be 18 in May, that his afther has a new girlfriend and will not being comeing back home, he said "Mom, thank you for being so strong". I told him I was so sorry that I wasnt able to do that sooner. He said there was nothing to be sorry about...that he loves me and that I did everything right. He said he knows it's his dad and he has accepted that. My 13 year old daughter, the one in therapy for cutting, has said teh samethings to me. Kid know and understand so much more than we give them credit for.

All I am saying is dont stay for the kids...it is hurting them. Be strong...face the fears, by talking to a lawyer, a therapist, us here, or whomever for support...it will help you. Your children need their mother. It's not easy, I know. And you will decide when you are ready...when you feel strong enough. (((((((HUGS))))))

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

I didn't want to threadjack the other post but what you wrote about your past could have been written by me,almost verbatim:

The eerie similarities for me:
-the emotionally abusive father who recognized that I was smart but said that I always made stupid decisions and never taught me to value myself. He too was impossible to fight - when I did try to express an opinion, I was told I was defiant.The man was a controlling horror. When he died, I felt nothing.

-IC also talked about the anger I should have for my mother for sweeping it all under the rug. But she was kind and loving and I have compassion for her She was sent to live with relatives at an early age - her parents were recent immigrants and couldn't afford to keep her so she learned that you do ANYTHING to keep from being abandonned. She passed that on to me and in doing so, taught me that love is about suffering. She never asked the right questions about the men I was seeing. She should have been asking if they treated me well, made me happy. Nothing. Guess I am beginning to feel some anger.

-I begged my mother to leave my father and gave her all kinds of articles about how children of divorce could fare better than those in a rage filled home. I now feel sad about the position I put her in.

-I was taught that I was unlovable and that I should accept cruelty from men.

On the surface, I proved my father wrong - I married the "prize" (who later became a lying, cheating prize). When my parents met my H while we were dating, father said that I shouldn't count on it going anywhere because he could get anyone he wanted. Nice thing for a father to think about his daughter!!!!!, Then, I chose the career father didn't want for me and have been successful at it, I fight back instead of cowering like my mother. The outside world thinks I am strong, confident with a "take no prisoners" attitude. What a fraud I have become. When it comes to men, I am still frightened and woefully lacking in self esteem because of the lessons father taught me about love.

As IC has helped my learn, there have been two significant traumas in my life - my father's betrayal and then my H's. Throw in my mother's role and we have the trifecta of pain.

It is a huge, huge challenge to undo my unhealthy ways of thinking and to recognize my own worth. As I am told almost every week in IC - change is slow, particularly with so many years of dysfunctional thinking.

The only difference is that you expressed it all so much better than I could.

Oh, Susan. Big, big hugs to you. You are an eloquent woman whose views always help me...either through validating so much of what I'm feeling...or by giving me a perspective I haven't really noodled through yet myself. I treasure your input here and your friendship.

You and I are the poster (adult) children of Emotional Abuse Survival. On one hand, it makes me sad for us. You and I know how deep the scars go. The years of agony living through it. The years later of understanding we never really got away from it, despite marrying, raising our own kids and feeling like we'd constructed the thickest of walls to keep us safe.

But on the flip side, you and I have so very much to be proud of. We have overcome and conquered and accomplished a lot. We may have had to take the longer more bumpy road to get there, but we got there. Where we haven't arrived yet, we're still chugging along, determined to get there. And when our H's failed to outrun their own personal demons, you and I have been extraordinary heroines, showing them the importance of healing, despite the war wounds they inflicted on us.

I'm sewing big super hero "S"'s on our chests: Superwoman! Survivor! Dare I say Sexy? (Well, I don't know if my self-image is ready to go that far with the imagery, but I'm doing the best I can.) Thank you, thank you, thank you, Susan, for standing alongside me through this. It was hard putting a lot of what I wrote down and I felt stronger knowing I wasn't alone.

Dearest K - Let Susan and I be helpful reminders to you of the importance of protecting your sweet children (not to mention you!). One should arrive in adulthood with the emotional support of one's parents...not in spite of them.

I hope you're doing well. What's been happening the last few days? Are you ok? I did a little bit of research online about "hybrid assets" (assets purchased by someone prior to a marriage, but then contributed to by a spouse during the marriage). Not sure if it applies legally within your state, but am hoping that there are ways to secure your future...whether with your H or without him. Holding you in my heart. BlueIris

"We cannot wait for the storm to pass; we must learn to walk in the rain."

I too had an emtionally abusive parent. It was my mother. She took us to hook up with her OM. We played outside while they played inside...nice, right? Then there was my father...who was sexually abusive. I learned to depend on no one until my WH came along, and look how that turned out, lol. Anyway, I never used any of the abuse to abuse others. There is no excuse, Im sorry.

~ CAL
"You, yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection" ~ Buddha

I want to say thank you to each of you who responded to my post and shared your thoughts and your past experiences. I am sorry so many of you have suffered from the actions of your parents. I also had an emotionally abusive father. He was actually my stepfather who adopted me. He was not interested in being "Daddy" so I really don't know why he adopted me--maybe to make my mom happy. He was not physically abusive but he was always sarcastic, domineering, and spoke to me as if I was stupid or he disliked me or didn't speak to me at all. He rarely took any interest in anything I was involved in. I can remember coming in our house and he would be watching t.v. and he might grunt a hello but not take his eyes off the t.v. I guess that's why I grew up with so little self-esteem. I went through a period in my 20's when I was terribly depressed. I still do not have the highest opinion of myself and I tend to shy away from men. From what I have learned about H's past and his family I believe there was emotional abuse there too, but that does not excuse him.
Well, I would like to write more but I will have to save it for another time. I am home with my daughter today who has strep. You'd never know it though as she is all over the place! She is getting in to everything and begging me to let her help me write. Throwing a tantrum too unfortunately! I was supposed to meet with an attorney today but had to cancel that too because of DD illness. Well must go now as she has hurt herself. I will be back for more advice when I get the chance.
Thank you for your kindness!

K

I just re-read everyone's posts and I'm take alot of comfort and strength from them. Thank you again for understanding me and backing me up.
Thinking about a divorce is so bewildering. I really don't even know if I can afford it! And it seems like there are so many things to think about-I don't know where to start. I need to make another appontment with the attorney and ask some questions.
I have thought about getting the kids into counseling. I actually talked to the school couselor/psychologist about this issue a while back. She said she would be happy to meet with the kids if I wanted. But their teacher said that she did not feel that they were acting like they were troubled (acting out, etc) so I didn't set them up with the counselor. But,I may do that after all.
As for the issue of not letting the kids have to be with H any more than necessary, I am having a problem with that. My work schedule does not stay the same every day. One day I might work 8:30 to 4:30 and the next 1pm to 9pm. Unfortunately I have no choice about this schedule. I try to be home when the kids are as much as possible. My mom is really the only other person I know of who could watch them in the evening, but she works full-time and is exhausted by the time she gets home. Most of the time she will only watch one of the kids at a time when she does. It's frustrating trying to work out a solution to this.
I welcome any ideas you all might have.

Thank you,
K