I decided I can't wait to post. I wanted to talk with the marriage counselor again first but I just can't for someone to help me. My wife thinks she can just ignore what she did and it will go away. I think I am bringing a suitcase to the Monday meeting. It's a terrible time to leave the kids but I can't stand another day of beating my head against the wall and all it gets me is a dented head.
7 weeks ago I found my wife was having an affair with with a 22 year old friend of our sons. I knew she was getting too close with him for years but I did not care about the emotional contact(if I knew then). After 22 years of marriage and 4 kids 22 20 15 11, one with special needs I wasn't looking for an affair. She actually shaved for HIM and tried not to explain it to me. This is what it took to make me suspicious.Did she think I wouldn't notice. I found the IM chat where he told her to do so and a couple of other IM's. The stuff she said to him was unbelievable. I found out on a Tuesday and we met with a MC Friday(my birthday some present). She is not one anyone would think would have an affair so I am trying to work to fix the Marriage. He is three states away and she doesn't go near the computer because she knows I can recall what she does. She tells me she feels trapped, And I tell her I don't care. It is the price for me staying but I feel she is staying together to keep the affair from becoming public and ruing her reputation as Miss Perfect. She will not discuss the affair or the relationship with me yet. I have ambushed her a couple of times to force discussion but she ends up in tears. It's worth it to me to get some discussion. we see the MC 1 hour every other week. As for emotions mine are all over the road. It seems they are all there(anger,frustration fear, confusion and yes even love) but which one is showing varies. They are all just under the surface of the one that is showing and with adjustment and time can we get the good ones to show more. I am terribly frustrated with the lack of progress because I spend hours on the computer looking for ways to fix this and she appears to be doing nothing. I am thinking of trying to force the issue by a trial separation after Christmas but if we separate everyone will will wonder WHY. Some will probably figure out why and her secret will be out. It would probably end the marriage but parts of me are ready for that. Another part of me wants to know what is the appropriate reprisal to what she has done. Parts of me feel she is expecting a punishment. She may need this to get closure but it is way to soon. She has not addressed the issue yet. Of course parts of me want to "get Even" and I know two wrongs don't make a right. I Have never considered what an appropriate punishment would be if she needs one, does anyone have ideas. I am end the end of being able to try and fix this. I have told her there will be times when she will need to carry me and vice versa during this, but she has yet to acknowledge there is a problem. She apparently cries while I am at work because do not see remorse. Parts of me think she is waiting for me to give up because she cannot end the relationship herself. I told the MC I thought the affair must have been to end the marriage because that is the only outcome you would expect from me, but I'm still here(for now). The MC said he thought it was probably a wake up call. Well I'm wide awake now and no-one will talk to me. Has anyone had success with trial separation. We are at standstill now and I need movement. I will force movement at Monday's MC meeting but I don't know which direction it will take me. I am prepared for either direction. I think I am moving out Monday to let her call whichever one of us she wants. It may not be the answer I wanted but sometimes "you don't get what you want you get what you need".
Bill
It really sucks, would be an understatement. I feel the same way about my H. We have been in recovery since August and I still feel like he just shuts me down when I try to talk to him into explaining the A. This past week all we did was fight about it and I am have gotten to the point where I know that if and when I do leave this marriage, his behavior now will have a lot to do with it, almost more so than the A itself.
One thing I remember and wish I had done differently from the beginning was leave, but for some reason people in my family kept telling me not to. They told me if I walked out on my H he would just get together with the OW and I would be sorry I just gave up and let her have him. Unfortunately, staying only seemed to give my H permission to keep it up and I had to catch him three more times before he finally stopped things with the OW. I know now that leaving him might have snapped him back sooner. Maybe exposing your wife by leaving is just what she needs. It sounds like she is living a lie anyway, why encourage her to keep doing so.
I am not saying run out into the street and tell everyone, but if you leave and people start to wonder and talk.. so be it.
I know wanting revenge is tempting and it is hard to know how separating will turn out especially if you are on the fence about ending things. Maybe you need time away to know how you really feel as well.
This is a tough time to go through this, the holidays are a time when you want to be surrounded by your loved ones and it is a terriable blow when it is your most loved one is causing the pain.
good luck bill, don't feel alone.
My first thought when reading your post was to tell you to breathTake a few seconds and try to take some slow calming breaths. I know your world is all crazy and you have an overwhelming need to fix it and make things right with out delay, but that just is not possible. Nothing about any of this is easy or fast. So give yourself a break. Decisions do not have to be made right away, making them now, if you dont absolutely have to is putting to much stress on your brain and your emotions when they are already both stretch out to the max. Again breath
It sounds as if your Ws head is still very much in the affair, or as we say here, she is in the fog. She cant see your pain, and wont allow herself to even if she could. The best advice I can give you right now is to keep searching and reading about affairs so that you understand. Understanding why they happen, and it isnt about giving the marriage a wake up call, helps you to process the insanity.
I have an article about the self delusion of a Wayward spouse. It might help you some. I will post it for you. Look for it.
If it helps, your not crazy, and your are not alone. We all feel just what you are feeling now. It does eventually get better, but it takes a lot of time and hard work.
at least you fought about last week. I am left to let my mind deal with it alone. when i do talk to her about it's like an i attack. I called it an ambush to MC. I can talk for an hour or so about 11 at night. not loudly because the kids are asleep. she cries and i eventually stop the attack. I've got to admit i feel a lot better after the attack. I consider it progress in dealing with the situation. i told the MC i would stop the ambushes though, so this week we haven't talked about the A and I avoid her so it won't lead to an ambush. she watches tv in the bedroom and me in the basement, until I come up to go to sleep. I can't consider this a marriage. We are supposed to go to the Bahamas in January but I'm thinking I may be going alone. Even if we both go I can't see it as a making up trip because we haven't made any progress. I see it as fighting the whole time or more avoiding each other to not fight. I need to fight or vent to make progress. at least talk about it. I haven't called her any of the bad names in my head(they haven't made it to my lips). I have used the f bomb many times but which I don't usually do but it is in frustration and it is not directed personally at her. Maybe I need to yell and vent but since this doesn't happen at home (there is always at least one child home and they don't know) the MC better invest in some sound proofing.
Just seeing responses from Ami and yourself feels better. If I can get some feedback from somewhere or anywhere it helps. Even after a few hours I realize how ****ty it would be for the kids to leave Christmas week. An hour ago I was in the basement wrapping my wifes gifts thinking I wasn't going to leave before I saw them opened.(I am still going through the Christmas motions and buying her gifts). Maybe I can make it through Thursday and hopefully things will look better then.
I do agree with Ami. I know it is really hard to but you have to just breathe. I am a very impatient person and this process seems so long and frustrating. You want to throw things and hurt things... anything but feel the real pain.
Take some time and concentrate on yourself. I know it is hard. Every time you look at your wife, you will probably want to yell, you want answers and an explaination, but like Ami said she sounds like she is still in a fog.
Someone else with more time at something like this will have to give you advice on how to help her out of it. I myself have no idea how my H snapped out of it, I don't think even he knows.
I know what you mean about Christmas. My H and I agreed not to buy each other anything, because money is tight, but at the same time I want to do something to express my feelings. One minute I want to do something nice, like a heartfelt poem then I am suddenly looking at tiny coffins for wedding rings (yes, they actually make them).
Just breath. Concentrate on your kids and on yourself.
I ended up ambushing my wife for conversation last nite because I couldn't go any further without progress or motion on our recovery. After lots of tears and holding on both parts we decided she is dealing with guilt and possibly depression. She said she wants to stay and I said I want to stay. The strange thing was she had had a very good few days without me ambushing her. Then I told her that lack of motion/progress was what had led me to decide I had to leave. We agreed we both want to fix the marriage but are using completely opposite ways to get to the same result. Of course I no longer want to leave but how could we have working on the same goal with completely opposite approaches. We already have an appt with the MC in the morning. She said she dreads my coming to bed at night because she doesn't know if she will get ambushed. Now she knows I need this for my recovery so we will talk to the MC in the morning and see if I can have a set nite to deal with this. I know I had brought up the affair in past ambushes but only twice. She said last week I must brought it up for 5 or ten minutes and I had mentioned it a few weeks ago too. I don't think thats bad at all. She also told me I can ask her anything I want about the A. I'm questioning whether I am the type that should get this info. My head is already funning like crazy and I'm afraid to put more bad thoughts in. My MC is the type that wants to allow me a set number of question and I am starting to think he may be right. I am getting more confidence in him as we go along. The best part of last night is my optimism has been restored, it was fading badly the last two weeks. I still don't know where this road leads but lets continue on.
"She said last week I must brought it up for 5 or ten minutes and I had mentioned it a few weeks ago too. I don't think thats bad at all."
Just to make you feel better, I brought up the affair every minute/second I was able in the beginning. My kids were teenagers at the time, so they were not home a lot. H and I could go for several hours on the subject, daily, and it wasn't fun for either of us. Many couples that successfully reconcile have in common the fact that they talked the affair to death, which is certainly what I and my huband did.
As to questions. It is very good that she is willing to answer any questions. Many couples also go through the question answer phase. I needed to know every tiny detail about it all, including the sex. But others don't want it all, it is up to you to decide. The things I could think up in my head turned out to be in some cases worse than the truth, in others about the same.
Just a quick thought on knowing the details of the affair. One thing that I was doing was wanting details to make movies in my head about her and OP and then I would be angry at her for doing what I had her doing in my head. The other thing is is that it isn't happening anymore. Its not happening right now. In my situation, my wife's affair was abusive, it wasn't hot sex like I have thought in my head all the time. Those thoughts did a number on my ego and self-esteem. Through MC and IC I am seeing that what she turned to was false intimacy to fill gaping wounds in her soul. I too was self-medicating, distant, dismissive, and into things that were damaging to our marriage. All things that destroyed intimacy in our marriage. We had a very bad marriage the 1st 10 years, but the last year has been full of ups and downs, but the level of emotional intimacy has steadily grown. It usually grows when I am not stuck in anger. If I can stay away from anger and fear and not let them control my life, things do get better.
There is already been many good comments offered here, and I hope that you are feeling a little better about your situation at home with some sharing you've had with your wife.
A couple of thoughts that I've had as I read your posts.
Asking your wife questions about the affair is normal and it's not "ambushing". It's full disclosure and the rebuilding of intimacy in your relationship. It's a normal response to the trauma of infidelity, just as people exposed to other traumas also find closure in learning about the tragedy they've experienced. They only way I'd consider it an ambush is if you were treating her in an abusive way.
In addition, some studies on infidelity have shown that a major determining factor in the success of reconcilation after discovery of the affair is the willingness of the wayward spouse to willingly discuss the details of the affair to the satisfaction of their betrayed spouse. It was important to me.
It's not surprising to me that your wife is taking the oposite approach to reconcilation that you would like to take. Wayward spouses seem to generally want to hide what they've done, to "move on" without discussing it, to "forgive and forget" without ever facing what they've done in a confession to the one most hurt by it. Betrayed spouses seem to generally want to know what happened, how they were betrayed, and as much as they can about the full depth of the betrayal. I believe these totally opposite approaches are born out of their common desire to protect themselves first, rather than protect the marriage relationship first. However, the wayward spouse must figure out that the marriage can never be reconciled as long as their spouse believes they cannot trust them, and that as long as the information is withheld the betrayed will find it very difficult to trust their spouse again.
I believe the wayward does this because they don't believe their spouse can or will forgive them if the full extent of the betrayal is known. They believe are protecting the marriage or their spouse from the consequences of knowing those details. My wife only gave up the stonewalling when she finally understood that the truth (and my right to it) was more important than the potentially negative outcomes of the disclosure.
Finally, regarding keeping it from the children. Your kids are old enough that some or all of them might figure this out on thier own, particularly the older ones that are still living at home. They might have already put it all together for themselves. They might not confront you with their suspicions, but it could be noticed in other subtle ways. Telling them is obviously a decison for you and your wife to make together, but it might be advisable to sit down and tell some of your children about this (in very general terms). I think I would keep the OM's identity a secret as well as any other details. However, for the oldest, there is a risk that he could find out from his friend, so you might want to tell him yourself.
Things are much better today. i will got over the responses in the order they came. Louise was first. One thing I have to mention is my wifes best friend is also named Louise and if you are also here that would be terrible. As for leaving I told her I was leaving Saturday night in our discussion( I think I should stop calling them ambushes). I said I would leave after Monday's meeting with the MC and she could have him here by Thursday "Merry Christmas". I took her quietness as waiting for me to give in and leave. She told me that's not what she wants and she wants me to stay. we cried in each others arms and agrees we both want to fix the marriage but how was I not seeing that. So now I am staying. It is still our secret and with him far away we can keep it that way. I know my wife has a lot of fear that this will get out. I also felt she shut me down if I wanted to talk about the recovery(I generally do not talk about the affair). She did say Saturday night I could ask whatever I wanted but I haven't gone there yet.
Ami I know it is much too soon to make decisions but I make decisions all day that have to made now. I am not a patient person and it is hard to accept this will take time. The MC tells us there will be decisions to make down the road when the time comes. I realize I can't make these decisions yet but I need information in the meantime. At todays MC meeting I realized that no matter how confidant I can be at work I am very insecure in my personal life. I have a lot of fear and need lots of reassuring right now. She did open up more at the meeting today which makes me think she may be coming out of the fog. Maybe seeing be break sown Saturday night helped realize how much I am still hurting.
TR Andrew I know I need time and this website seems to help bide time until we are ready to move along. Until she comes out of the fog I have to be patient. Thank you for your concern and help.
Ami again I don't think my wife could handle constant questions at this stage. I don't know if it is guilt or fear yet but she is opening a little more each week at the MC. We are going to go every week again because I cannot go two weeks without progress or motion. As for weather I want the details time will tell, My mind is all over the road and may change again.
Eyesofsorrow I am similar in that if I had the details I could not get them out of my head and it would come out as anger. Looking back do you think it helped or hurt your recovery to get the details. My wife is not seeing him anymore because she doen't have time(I make sure of that). I was also distant and took my wife for granted. It doesn't justify what she did but I realize I need to change as well as her. The old relationship was blown uo. The question now is can we build a healthy relationship from the rubble.
Tom J I'll have to finish later. Yours was a long resopnse and I have to go to work now.
Has anyone had success with trial separation. We are at standstill now and I need movement.
I always hated the term, but moving out for awhile realy helped me. I needed to know that I would be okay on my own. Silly sounding - maybe, but I needed to get out of the day to day grapling for any sign of hope and away from reading between the lines that were between the lines.
So we were separated for 5 months. I moved 200 miles away because my job only requred that I be able to get to an airport.
It really helped me to get my head straight.
A few things -
1) we don't have kids
2) it cost a fortune to maintain two households
3) I am so glad I did it
The first few months back together were rough...we had each gotten used to leaving the toothpaste cap on/off or the dishes dirty/washed and those little things drove us crazy during the move-back-in phase.
I should be sleeping now but I can't. I was looking for attention from my wife after work and got none. She is always sad after the MC meetings but I think I left lots of clues. I now think my ambushes were somewhat for attention. Tonight I feel I would gladly had affection or or discussion but got nothing. Her away message was how tired she is. I'm tired too but i's 2:30 in the morning and I have to be at work at 7:30 and I can't sleep. She will take a nap after the kids go to school.
I know I need disclosure and she is working that way slowly. I have to be patient, no matter how much it hurts. If it never comes I will have wasted a few months. I do agree I see her trying to move on or forgive and forget. She apparently doesn't realize I can't do this. This is apparently the fog Ami talked about but I do see signs the MC is moving toward lifting it. Let's give him some time.
I think in our case it is best to keep it from the children. Our oldest no longer keeps in touch with him since he moved away so it it is easily done. I know in this day with all the cyber contact no-one is far away but I think we can do it.
Susan
Trial separation would be very tough for us. A week or two I could do by moving in with my brother who still has the family home by himself. He has actually talked about getting room mates. It would be too expensive to run two houses. The MC mentioned my wife is probably fearful because she doesn't work and that gives me all the power. I am the type that always thinks of things later but that had to be an acceptable risk for her to to what she did. It would also open our marriage up to questions from outside and put more pressure on it.
On another note to all that have been through this. I seem to be getting over the initial phase of I need to save my marriage. At first I would say or do whatever I needed to save the marriage. Now I seem to be willing to forgo the marriage if it not beneficial to me. Is it normal to get this phase. I spend hour and lose sleep thinking of ways to fix this and she seems to be in denial or as Tom said get over it and move on. Will my attitude get better when she gets out of the fog and what if I lose patience before she gets out of the fog
